Troops on the ground in Iraq

[California Joe]

When TP and Argyll and James check in it would be nice to hear their opinions, Deuterium also of course...Was General "Black Beret" Shinseki right when he said that it would take several hundred thousand troops? Before being ****canned by Rummy? It sounds to me from the reports that the guys there that have developed a ******* with the locals or at least have learned to deal with the situation are being rotated out when possible and being replaced by people new to the game. Not a great strategy. Of course all the talk of extending tours because suitable replacements aren't available doesn't sound great to the guys on the ground either. I'm starting to think that Rumsfelds vision was great for a lightning fast campaign but lousy for controlling areas we hold. Thus the strung out convoys and civilian contractors and bypassed hot spots that are now biting us in the ass. Would more troops quell the problem or just give the insurgents more targets?

Your thoughts?

[UkrainianAmerican]

Yeah, it seems that the best peacekeeper is RAW manpower, which apparantly cant be compensated by hard traning or SOPMODed M4s
:(

[Seoulstriker]

I think it's Al Sadr and Al Qaeda being bitches again. You don't need more troops to quell a small problem being caused by those guys. You just need more time and success to get rid of them.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I think it's Al Sadr and Al Qaeda being bitches again. You don't need more troops to quell a small problem being caused by those guys. You just need more time and success to get rid of them.
We only have so much time until June 30th. :(

[California Joe]

The "small" part is somewhat debatable. There are too many reports of Shia and Sunni working together because we're a convenient common enemy. They believe we are there for, oil, money, their women, to colonize, to destroy their religion, any or all of the aforementioned. What they believe is the reality, it's also being reinforced by their religious leaders. Al Sadr is like Al Sharpton during the Tawana Brawley incident.

[Trident-za]

Good thread, Joe. Worrying times :(

[ronin2172]

Now that is an interesting comment california joe!lol (I never thought that i would see those two names mentioned here!). Some people are missing the point about the troop numbers. The extra soldiers are needed to patrol the borders which are extremely porous Particularly the border with iran; where a lot of troublemakers are apparently infiltrating with some ease, not in the cities (which are problomatic enough). Look at a map to see how long the border is with iran (not to mention syria)and think of the number of soldiers we have on the ground, add to the fact Iran doesn't want a strong democratic iraq and u have major problems, that the current force may not be able to cope with.

[Flagg]

Your thoughts?

My concern is insurgents sacrificing any attempt at even localised military victories.....and focusing exclusively on, and willing to sacrifice anything for, a political and/or media victory.

The toughest job in the world right now must be that of section or platoon commander in Iraq......having to give a fire control order in a nebulous environment.....hoping no non-combatants are injured/killed....hoping results of orders given don't wind up on Al Jazeera to further incite chaos.........not a job I envy at the moment

[Flagg]

Particularly the border with iran; where a lot of troublemakers are apparently infiltrating with some ease, not in the cities (which are problomatic enough). Look at a map to see how long the border is with iran (not to mention syria)and think of the number of soldiers we have on the ground, add to the fact Iran doesn't want a strong democratic iraq and u have major problems, that the current force may not be able to cope with.

Good point about Iran.....

As Iran comes under increasing scrutiny along the lines of supporting terrorism and developing a nuclear capability.....if I was an Iranian hardliner....I'd be poking the Iraqi insurgency with the biggest frickin stick I could find to divert as much attention AWAY from Iran....

[California Joe]

You're right Flagg, platoon leader has got to be incredibly stressful right now.

[James]

I'm still around, and expect to be for a few more weeks.

Several weeks ago on Frontline or some show there was a lot about the original plan and the plan as streamlined by Rumsfeld. The original plan, the product of men and women who wear uniforms ewveryday, called for more than 400,000 troops, not only for combat (they didn't think they'd need so many) but specifically for the stabilization period afterwards.

Now... I wonder... If you read the recent flurry of articles about the PMCs working in Iraq, it is interesting to do a bit of math. One of these articles estimated that there are as many as 20,000 PMC personell over there - that's more triggerpullers (potentially) than two U.S. Army Divisions.

Just a thought...