ACU'S are Garbage.

[Ratamacue]

I realise that over long ranges colours tend to dull and that grey is more difficult to pick up for the eye, due to the way we see. But considering that most infantry actions these days that I hear tend to be fought at more close quarters, is making a uniform more suited to long range fire fights and which seems to standout more than more traditional schemes close-up slightly odd?I can't testify to the effectiveness of the ACU, but at close quarters, the effectiveness of any camouflage is null. Therefore, there's no reason to even try to optimize a pattern for those sorts of distances, because it won't work. This is why camouflages are optimized for longer distances. This is true for pretty much all camouflage patterns, not just the ACU.

[BrianT]

Yeah I've always liked the Marine digis better myself. The ACUs are a more effective camo after they've been stained a bit. I'm not sure if that was planned on purpose. The stuff blends in gravel like crazy though. Not sure what good that is. I remember one time I was jumping and out of the corner of my eye I thought I saw a giant rock. I almost freaked out because I thought I was going to hit a rock, but I ended up landing on some dude in ACUs. Anyways I rather have thinner and cooler uniforms myself. I'll just keep DXing the things. Oh and oddly enough I saw some pictures of SEALs in ACUs. It was weird. Maybe they were attached to Army or something. They looked like they were wearing Ranger SOP.

[triath]

The ACUs are like the Army Infantry.

Jack of all trades, Master of none.

I had gone to Benning one cycle before they had started handing out ACUs.

[jizzmonkey]

I don't know what the hell you are all bitching about...the ACU's are awesome and pretty durable so far, hella-better than BDU's..stop whinning, it could be worse.:roll: ..I can't belive you guys have 17 pages on this subject..it's pathetic..why don't you complain about weapons optics..or The new pay-chart?

[JokerDMX1]

Damn the new paycharts! I should have been an officer :(

[gaijinsamurai]

Thanks for joining the forum and giving your perspective, AZN USMarine! I always like to hear the opinions of the people who are actually talking from experience.
I wore the old "chocolate chip" desert cammo in Desert Shield/Storm, and the second generation desert cammo while in Kuwait with the National Guard, and I'd take either (in addition to the BDUs) over that ACU uniform.

Take care of yourself in Iraq AZN US Marine, and SEMPER FI!!!!!!!!!

[Leonidas]

Ok so from what I can gather so far, the main gripe that people have about the ACU are that its not durable, the velcro bits, and the colour. The first 2 can be rectified easily enough. But the colour? the USMC pattern has already proved itself to work very well, so what other colours can the army use for its digital uniform? Seeing that both the army and Marine corp want to be able to distingusih its troops from each other, any thoughts?
To AZN US marine, I'm sorry if my question offended you, but still, if the MCCUU design proves to be the best for a digital pattern, then shouldnt the army be allowed to use it as well if it can increase their effectiveness in combat?

[WCCKahuna]

The freakin ABU is a sweet digi design.

[BadKarma26]

I don't know what the hell you are all bitching about...the ACU's are awesome and pretty durable so far, hella-better than BDU's..stop whinning, it could be worse.:roll: ..I can't belive you guys have 17 pages on this subject..it's pathetic..why don't you complain about weapons optics..or The new pay-chart?

x2. at night they kick ass and in the cities they kick ass; the two places were gonna be fighting for the next 50 years.

[Frens]

x2. at night they kick ass and in the cities they kick ass; the two places were gonna be fighting for the next 50 years.

big +1 on that one!


also, US are so full of $$$ that if they will need a new camo they will just create a new one.

[Azn_US_Marine]

Thanks for all the postive feedback.

Leonidas, its hard for me to say if MARPAT should be used by everyone. Even without the EGAs, its still a very distinct Marine uniform and I dont like services getting confused with one another, especially by civillians that dont know. I'd say the Army should go Multicam, it actually seems to work in multiple terrains better than the ACU and it has green and brown in it. Sadly airsofters turned it and ACU to AirsoftPAT, and that is not cool. If not, everyone should just stick with the old school woodlands and tri colors, but end the starching madness, the tag says "DO NOT STARCH OR COMMERCIALLY HOT PRESS", cant the Sgt Maj's read!? I bought a set of USMC woodlands and they are nice, the ripstop isnt as hot as twill and the cargo pocket is easier to use than the elastic on MARPAT but the bottom blouse pockets definitely need to move. I also just like the look of shiny black combat boots, wish we could wear those with our digis.

[WCCKahuna]

1) MARPAT 2) MultiCam 3) BDU 4) Flectarn 5) Flora

That's my top 5 list of camo

[aj-0311]

The ACU was adopted for the cost savings and safety aspects. We are no longer required to purchase roadguard vests and cammie face paint as their use is now pointless, hence the cost savings to soldiers.

The day-glo, high visibility aspect ensures that soldiers are spotted from quite a distance, cutting down of fratricide considerably. As an added plus, the kiddi-land pastel colors go hand in hand with the kinder, gentler army of niceness that's being pushed. They will certainly not be mistaken for anything "tactical".

It's true, I heard it during a chewing gum break between the ****** harrassment and sensitivity awareness briefs.

[AK74]

The ACU was adopted for the cost savings and safety aspects. We are no longer required to purchase roadguard vests and cammie face paint as their use is now pointless, hence the cost savings to soldiers.

The day-glo, high visibility aspect ensures that soldiers are spotted from quite a distance, cutting down of fratricide considerably. As an added plus, the kiddi-land pastel colors go hand in hand with the kinder, gentler army of niceness that's being pushed. They will certainly not be mistaken for anything "tactical".

It's true, I heard it during a chewing gum break between the ****** harrassment and sensitivity awareness briefs.

thats pretty informative !:)

[bluffcove]

x2. at night they kick ass and in the cities they kick ass; the two places were gonna be fighting for the next 50 years.

Dont plan the last war, plan the next!

[Limeyfellow]

ACU's the best to me.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9866/dscf0001jz2ei1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Who can say it doesn't work good?

You sir, win the cookie. That would make the airforce jealous, if nothing else.

[WCCKahuna]

The US Army recently authorized black boots for wear in woodland/temperate environments. But, black probably wouldn't blend with your couch either.

[not a aussiesoldier]

Hi mate I agree with you on the ACU Cams Ithink the marines got the better cams that you guys. They should have stayed with the 3 colour desert cams and the woodland.

[ABNINF]

The US Army recently authorized black boots for wear in woodland/temperate environments. But, black probably wouldn't blend with your couch either.

It's only for cold weather environments and it only lasts for 6 months. The only black boot authorized is the ICWB (the black Bellevilles) since the tan version is in short supply

[Gauntlet]

The ACU works surprisingly well. My cousin owns a shirt and pants. You'de think you'de be able to spot that a mile away but it turns the wearer invisible. The whole concept is that the grays and greens trick your eye. When they're in the brush, there is no chance at seeing them. It blends the sunlight and the shadows perfectly.
The ACU works really well at night. You can turn virtually invisible at night with this stuff on.

[Dan2004]

I've had my ACUs for almost a year now, and I still can't tell which one's the green; The lighter shade or the darker shade, because they both look grey to me. When I look at it all I see is tan and grey.:|

[Pook2]

The ACU works surprisingly well. My cousin owns a shirt and pants. You'de think you'de be able to spot that a mile away but it turns the wearer invisible. The whole concept is that the grays and greens trick your eye. When they're in the brush, there is no chance at seeing them. It blends the sunlight and the shadows perfectly.
The ACU works really well at night. You can turn virtually invisible at night with this stuff on.

I think you forgot the sarcasm tag.

[AK74]

i wont mind a free set sent to me from thouse who have a set and say they are garbage...

[WCCKahuna]

It's only for cold weather environments and it only lasts for 6 months. The only black boot authorized is the ICWB (the black Bellevilles) since the tan version is in short supply

I know.


I think you forgot the sarcasm tag.

They really aren't all that bad. You get used to 'em.

[Pook2]

I know.



They really aren't all that bad. You get used to 'em.

Everytime I've seen people in them at night here, I saw them before all the other people in woodlands, not to mention the tan boots stuck out like a sore thumb.

[WCCKahuna]

I agree they suck in woodlands. But, as said one thousand times before on this thread...they are good mountainous/desert/urban camo. And our current conflicts are all in those types of areas. If we get deployed to woodlands, there is no doubt that we will wear woodland specific camo.

[TacoDelRio]

I was up in the mountains on Thanksgiving. I got to a saddle where some folks take a break and check maps and crap. I came across a guy wearing full ACU's. He blended in really well.

Our mountains are predominantly granite, so the greys blend in with the rock. He was just walking along a trail. If he was amongst a buncha rocks, he'd be damn near invisible.

[onefast93z28]

I agree they suck in woodlands. But, as said one thousand times before on this thread...they are good mountainous/desert/urban camo. And our current conflicts are all in those types of areas. If we get deployed to woodlands, there is no doubt that we will wear woodland specific camo.

And how long would it take for the Army to develop, field test, approve, and field a new woodland camo?

[zonk]

And how long would it take for the Army to develop, field test, approve, and field a new woodland camo?

waaaayyyy to long, they test stuff for years before they put it out. i remember back in 2000 when they asked soldiers what camo pattern they wanted. 6 years later......

[WCCKahuna]

And how long would it take for the Army to develop, field test, approve, and field a new woodland camo?

They wouldn't use a new woodland camo. They would use BDUs. There are a billion of those still lying around. There would be no field testing, developing, approving, etc. It would just be back to BDUs.

[onefast93z28]

then what's the point of having a "universal" camo? I mean if they would have to switch back to woodland BDUs, why not just keep the DCUs and save the time and money?

[aj-0311]

A new uniform wasn't needed or wanted except by senior leadership who wanted to jump on the digital bandwagon. The ACU and the "universal" uniform concept was a failure and utter flop since it's inception.

Just because it's new and leadership says it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, doesn't make it so. Ask the soldiers that actually have to wear this garbage in the field.

[WCCKahuna]

A new uniform wasn't needed or wanted except by senior leadership who wanted to jump on the digital bandwagon. The ACU and the "universal" uniform concept was a failure and utter flop since it's inception.

Just because it's new and leadership says it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, doesn't make it so. Ask the soldiers that actually have to wear this garbage in the field.

Very true. But like I said, you get used to 'em.

[aj-0311]

Pin on badges, pocket placement and all the velcro can take some getting used to but the coloration is a different matter. It's true about 90% of the Army has no real use for camouflage, but to those who do(infantry, SF etc.) it can mean the differnce between success and failure. SF can have a lot of leeway in uniforms worn on missions, but us in the infantry simply don't have that benefit. Hence why we wear the ACU in garrison for uniformity, but continue to wear BDU's in the field because they are more durable and blend better. Not invisible mind you, just a lot better than ACU. However, with the BDU wear out date late next year, that won't be an option either.

[WCCKahuna]

Well just think about paratroopers that landed in Normandy. They were wearing the most visible tan uniforms, ever! Yet, they somehow managed to push through and win. I agree, good camo is a great benefit for combat operations, but remember, it is not necessary to win.

[aj-0311]

True, it's not necessary, but I'd prefer to have the cards stacked in my favor.
Also true that we won...with overwhelming might. The Germans had a definite upper hand in terms of effective camouflage.

I just disagree with the CSM that claims that camouflage is going the way of the horse cavalry and is outdated on the modern battlefield. That may be true in a large mechanized AO, but tell that to a squad laying in ambush along a wooded trail.
IMO it's still needed just as "old school" land nav is needed and not rely on GPS 100% of the time, as I see more and more.

[Gauntlet]

I agree they suck in woodlands. But, as said one thousand times before on this thread...they are good mountainous/desert/urban camo. And our current conflicts are all in those types of areas. If we get deployed to woodlands, there is no doubt that we will wear woodland specific camo.

Yeah. My cousin and I were shooting airsoft in the eastern side of the Cascades. That area is moutainous, rocky, and dry. It has some vegatation but it's like your pine and brush. The ACU works great in that environment. But I guess I would agree that it would suck in lush woodland conditions.

[devil99]

don't fix it if it ain't broke

acus havn't fixed anything, they simply don't work

[aj-0311]

That's why we continue to wear BDU's in the field.

Some units are beggining to recieve ACU bivvy covers and individual shelters. Man, let me tell you, that stuff REALLY sticks out. The ACU advocates are starting to question the Armys' thinking process, or lack thereof.

[AK74]

That's why we continue to wear BDU's in the field.

Some units are beggining to recieve ACU bivvy covers and individual shelters. Man, let me tell you, that stuff REALLY sticks out. The ACU advocates are starting to question the Armys' thinking process, or lack thereof.

They really cater to the 90% of the army whos not on the fields .

[aj-0311]

Well, it's obvious those in procurment never asked for feedback from those that use it.

[ZeroZ]

while i was considering what branch i wanted to go into, on the table where in this order 1.navy 2.undecided 3.army, marines tie 4.become a bum and move to the caribian and 5. airforce...if there where a draft and i couldnt be a bum anymore. so there i was and the marines adopted marpat, point for marines. so i waited for the army's choice and they announce ACUPAT or acu for short. so needless to say with all the bad pr thats been coming from the army being a bum shot up to #3 and marines where tied for 1st for unrelated reasons.

summary: ACU BAD so vicariasly ARMY is slightly worse-> not joining the army

[aj-0311]

Uh, I hate to tell you this, but if you're going to join a service just because of the uniform, you need to rethink your priorities.

[supercontra]

The Marines might.

I wouldn't say 'garbage' but the ACU could have been better.

Actually I drew up an 'all terrain' digital pattern on my PC - just pulled it out of my arse - then tested it against the ACU superimposed on environmental pics. It came out much better. The secret? Brown. I dunno why they skipped that in the ACU. My pattern was four colors - a typical beige base 30%, medium brown 30%, a medium olive 25% and a dark grey 15%. In the desert it would come off like the old chocochip pattern and in the woods it's darker and greener than ACUs.

It seems to me that either too much research or not enough went into the ACU.

Can you share the pattern with us?

[WCCKahuna]

Uh, I hate to tell you this, but if you're going to join a service just because of the uniform, you need to rethink your priorities.

Amen bro. If you base your decision solely on what uniform they wear...you've got some problems.

[WCCKahuna]

Can you share the pattern with us?

He did. Go through all the pages on this thread, you'll find his post.

[maple.leaf]

I still think my universal pettern would work better. The army should have asked me first :(

Legoflage II. :)

[ZeroZ]

Uh, I hate to tell you this, but if you're going to join a service just because of the uniform, you need to rethink your priorities.
its not just the uniform, the uniform is only part of it. i see military uniforms as a simple way of determining how much an army, or military branch actually cares about the individual fighting man or woman. ive heard the amry uniforms are mediocre at best, therefore according to the uniform rule, the army doesnt care as much about thier soldiers as the rest of the military

[WCCKahuna]

its not just the uniform, the uniform is only part of it. i see military uniforms as a simple way of determining how much an army, or military branch actually cares about the individual fighting man or woman. ive heard the amry uniforms are mediocre at best, therefore according to the uniform rule, the army doesnt care as much about thier soldiers as the rest of the military

F**k that s**t. I'm sorry, but you don't know s**t man. I'm in the Army Reserve as an MP and was activated and I served a tour in Iraq. The Army loves its soldiers. The benefits, the comraderie, the oppurtunities and the care for Army troops is all something the Army is best at. The Army soldier is the most adored figure in the Army. I am proud to serve here, and I love it. Yes, there are some flaws...but guess what? The Marines have flaws, the Navy has flaws, the Air Force has flaws and the Coast Guard has flaws. All branches have just about an equal amount of flaws. But, I still believe the Army is the best. I love my job, and don't ever try to tell me that the Army doesn't care for me...because that's bulls**t.

[aj-0311]

I agree with WCCKahunas' reply, however in terms of the ACU, the Army leadership are the ones who droped the ball. They didn't ask for or recieve feedback from the soldiers who rely on the uniform on a daily basis and actually use it. Instead they listened to some metro******s idea of cool and saw their Phd and statistics and rode with it, instead of Joe Soldier and his Mk.1 eyeball to tell them what works and what doesn't.

Several soldiers have e-mailed PEO soldier and Natick labs and have yet to hear of ANY proper field testing done on the "universal" coloration.

In the end, politics won the day and the average soldier is left wondering WTF?
I can somewhat see where ZeroZ is coming from, but the Army is not the only service to suffer from this. It's just that the ACU is so obvious, the other services are on the back burner.

[dave81]

The Army loves its soldiers...The Army soldier is the most adored figure in the Army...don't ever try to tell me that the Army doesn't care for me...because that's bulls**t.
Let me guess: You're on your first enlistment?
p-)

[JTAR7242]

So they do work after all...

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2218/camo16dk5.jpg

[WCCKahuna]

In all honesty and seriousness, the ACU seems to be working here...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/061204-F-7547H-002.jpg

Step back about 15-20 feet from your monitor (if you can) and the soldier will seem almost invisible (except for the face).

[aj-0311]

I have to disagree... the only thing that looks muted/natural is the dirty as hell ACH cover and the OD gloves. The rest of the day-glo is unseen except for a small part of the left arm. Not a good example.

[Hydro]

In all honesty and seriousness, the ACU seems to be working here...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/061204-F-7547H-002.jpg

Step back about 15-20 feet from your monitor (if you can) and the soldier will seem almost invisible (except for the face).



Colours are different in real life from a digitally enhanced photograph and a computer monitor.

[WCCKahuna]

Colours are different in real life from a digitally enhanced photograph and a computer monitor.

You are exactly correct. They are. And that's why some ignorant fools on this forum who think the ACU is blue and off-white are completely wrong. Has anyone on here worn ACUs? Seen them in real life? They are completely different than the pictures shown on your computer screen. They do work in a lot of environments. They are obviously not "the best", but they aren't the worst either. Anyway, I probably won't be posting here anymore because I'm sick of arguing with inexperienced people.

[aj-0311]

You are exactly correct. They are. And that's why some ignorant fools on this forum who think the ACU is blue and off-white are completely wrong. Has anyone on here worn ACUs? Seen them in real life? They are completely different than the pictures shown on your computer screen. They do work in a lot of environments. They are obviously not "the best", but they aren't the worst either. Anyway, I probably won't be posting here anymore because I'm sick of arguing with inexperienced people.


Yes, I see them everyday, and in direct light they do appear Blue -gray and off-white to me, but maybe that's just my 14 1/2 years of inexperience. Sorry, but I've seen the ACU in all possible environs and it simply doesn't work well enough to be called universal.

For the ACU to be adopted, one assumes that it will at LEAST surpass the current issue, or else why bother. Does it surpass or at least equal the DCU in a arid environment? No. Does it surpass or at least equal the BDU in a temperate environment? No. Does it surpass or equal in durability? No. The only area it surpasses BDU/DCU is comfort. And as a so called cost savings to both soldiers/govt., it is not. A butt-load of BDU/DCU were already in the system and multi-service usable. Please explain the cost savings to the govt. to have each service in a different uniform?
As a cost savings to the soldier, nope. Buying name tapes and unit patches cost MUCH more than BDU/DCU. For example, for the cost of one ACU unit patch, I can have all patches, tapes and badges sewn on and don't have to worry about again, whereas with the ACU, everthing is two to three times that. And with the patches being so pricey, theft is becoming a real issue.

According to PEO soldier/ Natick labs, the ACU coloration was NOT field tested and was adopted/ force fed into service by the CSA and SMA.

Minor changes to the BDU/ACU would have been more cost effective and still provide worldwide usability.

[Ghetto Defendant]

According to PEO soldier/ Natick labs, the ACU coloration was NOT field tested and was adopted/ force fed into service by the CSA and SMA.

Minor changes to the BDU/ACU would have been more cost effective and still provide worldwide usability.

Two questions, please:

- Who are the CSA and SMA?

- What changes would you deem necessary to be both cost effective and
be capable of providing universal camouflage worldwide?

Thanks.

[stuntman]

To many people think that camo is supposed to conceal you in front of a lime green evergreen tree. Sorry fellas it is not. Camo is most necessary in negative areas (between trees ,cover and even streets), not in positive areas (near or behind a tree or wall). So if you want up close camo concealment then go with CADPAT but even from far cadpat looks dark because cloth(material, nylon webbing, uniform) doesn't register light the same as leaves or natural materials. So from a distance you get a darker camo effect or no effect. With light colors and especially grey the eye tends to miss lighter colors from a distance (unless large and contrasting to background) and grey is a color that the human eye cannot distinguish when washed out with to much light(sunny),little light(nightime) or a different color.

[amazing kg3]

the cadpat up here is awesome in its terrain, it is like you are virtually inviible provided you know how to use camo. however as soon as you get out of the evergreens your caught.

[Canuck Farrier]

There is no perfect cammo..With cammo the man has to adapt to environment.Some work best when there is lots of green some work best in fall some work ok all year round but hey the man makes the uniform right.I thought CADPAT works good anywhere green.Well ya cant hide forever.

[amazing kg3]

yes true, there are no universal camos, as terrain is literaly different from one end of the spectrum to the other.

[aj-0311]

Two questions, please:

- Who are the CSA and SMA?

- What changes would you deem necessary to be both cost effective and
be capable of providing universal camouflage worldwide?

Thanks.

Chief of Staff of the Army and Sergeant Major of the Army

The changes needed concern the durability and coloration. The ACU is claimed to be made from the same NY/CO blend as the enhanced hot weather BDU however it's not holding up as well as the former.

During development there were several other more capable colors/patterns used but leadership wanted digital and the current coloration was pushed.

I fully understand the Armys' having to supply a huge force where 90% have no real need for camouflage, but as a infantryman, I cringe when I see ACU clad soldiers grossly standing out in a wooded/green area, not so bad in an arid area, but the DCU was still better.

[amazing kg3]

i believe that as in any debate, it will have both sides, but this should never go to such lengths as name calling. Not pointing fingers, but it ruins the thead and also diplays your lack of integraty. I have noticed it throughout the thread.

Unfortunatley the only ACU i have seen is probaly reproduction, and has seen a little ineffective for our climate, but i see how it could be effective in a desert/urban area, as well as some woodland. but as a universal camofluge it has its ups and downs. its 50 50 for me. i perfer my multicam, but its only for airsoft so i cant really give vital input. id take the advice of the servicemen on this site. and thank there ass if your not one of them!

[hammerlock]

ACU, to me for is a big waste of money on something that does a very poor at what it was designed for. Its not a universal pattern, and the US army would be better with two patterns. Now the uniform design itself if good and would been a update for the old woodland and derert paterns, but the sucks.

Of course I'm baised as being a member of the CF we actually have a two very well if not the best designed patterns in the world.

[aj-0311]

ACU, to me for is a big waste of money on something that does a very poor at what it was designed for. Its not a universal pattern, and the US army would be better with two patterns. Now the uniform design itself if good and would been a update for the old woodland and derert paterns, but the sucks.

Of course I'm baised as being a member of the CF we actually have a two very well if not the best designed patterns in the world.

No your not biased, I work with several CF here in Colorado and your uniform (both arid and temp) are better than the ACU.

IMO the Marine Corps and Canadian Forces did it right, recognizing the need to stay with two seperate uniforms for different areas, more so with the Marines, as their equipment is in a neutral coyote color making it usable in both extremes.

[amazing kg3]

the arid cadpat is nice looking as well

[Canuck Farrier]

I like MARPAT,it works really well.

[stuntman]

Well I happen to be a fan of ACU. Check out these pics of ACU in green area.
http://www.tacticaltailor.com/images/photogallery/IMG_6979_600.jpg
http://www.tacticaltailor.com/images/photogallery/IMG_7041_600.jpg

Keep in mind that this is summer foliage and imagine the winter being alot greyer and browner. Now it can't be that bad as a universal camo can it?

[Spartan XV]

Isnt that Multicam?

[stuntman]

Isnt that Multicam?
I think maybe one guy in the first pic is.. But the other have to be ACU..

[Hun Ranger (not real)]

This isnt ACU....This is the ACU's issue the MULTICAMO. I'am pretty sure, because i enlarged the two pictures and acu is brighter i think.

[aj-0311]

There's no way that's ACU. I've seen ACU in the field for over a year now and can tell you ACU is much brighter, even when dirty.

[amazing kg3]

im also gonna say its multicam-but that is a nice G36.

[Thatguy2695]

I have ACU's and they work fine I airsoft in southern california in a overgrown forest area outside my town. Almost 3/4 of the people that go have ACU's they work pretty good then again I have a Coyote Brown Tac vest that covers my center mass that breaks up the pattern quite nicely. I want to go into either the Navy Seals or Army Rangers out of high school and the Army Camo did concern me for a while. I do feel that the Marpat is a better choice especially having 2 diffrent uniforms for diffrent environments making that uniform more tailored to the environment. but the ACU's don't do bad breaking up the body and also normal operating areas of the Army right now are mountainous and Urban and I talked to a Combat Medic and he told me that the ACU's work great in the Mountains of Afghanistan.

Now the Reason the Army picked the ACU's was because they wanted a digital pattern like the Marine Corps which I think is stupid because they had a contest where the 2 winners were the Multicam The Camo in "Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter" and the ACU's and as I have seen in pictures Multicam is much better. But is hard to get a hold of unlike ACU's

The Velcro has given me little problems I bought all the patches for my uniform online and it looks pretty awesome after airsofting I went to
In n out and a guy came up and thanked me and I had to explain I am not a soldier.

The only real problem I have had with the ACU's velcro is just as stated before washing you are supposed to take off the patches so then after it comes out you have to sit there and align them up in the mirror so it looks right.

The Uniform is also pretty wrinkle free I fold it up and there are no creases after like 2 minutes and it only has creases when it is under other cloths and pressed down into fold.

Pro- looks pretty kick ass, Wrinkle free, Breathes much better than Marpat or BDU's, Pocket positions are very easy to access, pen pouches on left arm are handy for carrying pens if you need them,

Cons- could blend a little better, Velcro has caught on interior of vest and made tearing noise when seperated,

I would have prefered the Army pick the Multicam but I am very pleased with my ACU's ask most soldiers they hate the ACU's for the first month they were issued because they thought they would stick out really bad but then after field exercises noticed that they blended nicely.

I'll try and get up some pictures later once I get the damn cord to upload pictures from phone.

[aj-0311]

ask most soldiers they hate the ACU's for the first month they were issued because they thought they would stick out really bad but then after field exercises noticed that they blended nicely.

Wanna bet?

Also, I just came from A-stan and the DCU worked MUCH better than the ACU.

[ABNINF]

Wanna bet?

Also, I just came from A-stan and the DCU worked MUCH better than the ACU.

Quoted for truth

[Thatguy2695]

Well I have asked 3 soldiers a Ranger, my friends brother who is a combat medic, and another friends cousin who is a Intel specialist that was sorta forced into the Rangers and the 3 of them like the ACU's. I don't like asking recruiters questions about the military because umm the truth is stretched torn and then sewn back together incorrectly and then given to me.

I'm sure that their is better camo actually I know there is but atleast with only one camo you don't have the problem that happened at the begining of the Iraq war where we had soldiers in Woodland uniforms going into the desert.

I wish the Army had chosen multicam I know it is 200-280 dollars per uniform but it's much better, and I believe I read an article online that said it had Cordura in the uniform, so it would blend better "looks alot cooler" and with cordura much more durable. I want to join the military and go primarily into the special forces community I am between Navy Seals and Rangers.

http://www.cryeprecision.com/images/catalog/C04_front.jpg Shirt: http://www.cryeprecision.com/images/catalog/CS1_front.jpg Vest: http://www.cryeprecision.com/images/catalog/RV1_front.jpg Jacket: http://www.cryeprecision.com/images/catalog/FS1_front.jpg and pants: http://www.cryeprecision.com/images/catalog/CP1_front.jpg

I would much rather that my uniform than ACU's I want to buy them but pushing 300 bucks is to much at the moment.

[ABNINF]

Well, I will tell you that the ACU's suck, IMO. They rip incredibly easy, they wear out at least 5x faster than BDU's. I've also never had a uniform wear through like blue jeans until I the ACU's. The velcro sucks. If you use your pockets at all, on any sort of normal level, you've got to replace the "pile" (the soft stuff) after about a year, but that's only if the uniform makes it that far.

[East Scout]

Good stuff..

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/45146529.jpg

[aj-0311]

Yep, that's the stuff.

I always crack-up when I see soldiers in ACU's wearing cammie paint, I mean really, what's the point?

[Azn_US_Marine]

Its funny how airsofters that have only seen action in their backyards are trying to defend the ACU. I see it everyday, out here in Iraq, inside and outside the wire. It does have a bluish-grey tone that is way too bright when I look at it. This is some observations I've made of it, it from my article that will be on my Myspace blog later on...

* Even when covered in dust & sand, its still pretty bright
* I could make a Soldier out even when a large sand cloud would normally conceal his form
* The IR American Flag they wear for outside the wire is thin as paper, peels off like a cheap sticker
* The internal elbow-pad inserts is secured with velcro on the OUTSIDE
* Velcro-backings for patches and nametapes starting to peel off, no suprise
* Do any of you Soldiers ever utilize the Mandarin collar? I only saw one guy use it. Some Soldier's collar velcro doesnt allow their collar to stay down when worn like a standard blouse. Worthless-looking feature that moved the rank to the chest. My neck feels fine with body armor on just by pushing up my collar to cover my neck. And speaking of chest...
* Three-point slings usually block the rank and I find myself eyeballing a female Soldier's chest more than I should... :)
* It does suprisingly work, around rocks and at night. when its dark, everything has a dark bluish tint, the Soldiers wearing ACUs are harder to see, so is everyone else
* The same old light tan desert boots are the only thing that blend in with the sand, but the same bright boot for CONUS field ops and garrison!? Way too bright for the woods. All of our suede boots look like ass when they are wet and or muddy, takes forever to dry. I'd like to see the old spit shinable black boot come back for garrison/woodland field ops. Im probably the only person that cleans my suede boots once in a while. These damn fleshout boots has brought laziness with them...
* Even old school Woodland works out here too! Lots of vegetation & palm trees, especially since we're basically next to the Euphrates. I mistook a Soldier wearing a woodland flight-suit as a bush on muddy sand until I focused my eyes on him! When they wear the ACU, I can tell that they are a Soldier, I can distinctly make them out as a person.
* Their skivvy shirt color is offically called "sand tan" but its basically beige white to me. They might as well wear cotton white t-shirts like in Vietnam. Fortunately they can still wear brown and it works alot better.
*Soldiers that wear tan flightsuits or still cool enough to wear DCUs not only look intimidating, they blend in as well. But the ACU pattern helmet cover and IBA and pouches just kills it. While both MARPATs work well with the older patterns the ACU pattern simply kills it, what a waste of money.

Instead of 2 distinct patterns that work for their respective environments, they decided the bluish-gray white digital pattern is "UNIVERSAL". It will save all the money spent on "maintaining 2 different uniforms, dry cleaning and sewing costs" and even personal gear. "Its not the perfect solution but good all-around across the board" Is it that hard to maintain sets of both woodland and desert uniforms? All branches have used both BDUs and chocolate-chip/3-color DCUs since the 80's up until recently. If the Army is so concerned about money, they could've stopped the requirement of the BDU to be pressed and starched! The tag says "DO NOT STARCH OR COMMERICALLY DRY CLEAN" doesnt it!? It only looks like ass after its been starched to knife sharp creases and then being worn. Wouldn't it look good if it weren't starched in the first place, simply iron as needed? As for sewing, the BDU is alot stronger than the ACU. Durability was an issue with the ACU. Velcro may save a FEW trips to dry cleaners, but its loud and it wears down over time. Doesnt a new velcro patch have to be sewn on after the old one loses its stickiness? At least with sewn on patches, you wont worry about them catching onto anything and they WILL stay on your uniform, no need to worry about velcro backings.

And for those of you in the Army, was it a pogue General that thought "Oh Marines have digital so we must have it too! I dont care if that Multicam works better, its not digital like the Marines!" Forgive me if Im wrong, but that seems to be the reason why it was adopted, politics over function.

[aj-0311]

DING, DING, DING... We have a winner...

and yes, it was the Chief of Staff and SGM of the Army that pushed the adoption of the digital coloration of the ACU, even though it came in last place during testing. The "Multi-cam" design was the hands down winner, but politics got involved and you see what happened.

[~center~]

WOW!!! I really couldn't have said it better. Great post Azn US Marine, I agree totally. p-)

[scheer]

WOW!!! I really couldn't have said it better. Great post Azn US Marine, I agree totally. p-)

X2, well put and from someone who's seen it in the field! ACU does seem to have become 'Airsoftpat'.

It does seem to have been a case of politics and wishful thinking overcoming common sense, as per.

[raph_g]

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-09-07-093217.jpg

if you're running around the woods or open desert, MARPAT wins hands down. ACU is an urban camo, it fits the kind of combat that the infantryman will see in the 21st century. also, acu haters dont get your panties all in a bunch, Army is going to phase out ACU with Future Force Warrior in the future - i'll probably never even get ACUs (we're last on the aquisitions totem pole)

[goat89]

raph? You were in the Sandbox?

[raph_g]

it's a DOD image. you can see how in sunlight the ACU gets bleached and blends into the visual noise around it (look at the soldier to the left of the stryker). also, army picked ACU because it had no black in it. i remember reading some stuff from natick about how the eye is naturally drawn to black so they wanted it kept out of their uniform. don't take my word for it until i find the article though...

[goat89]

LOL. wasn't saying you were in the pic. But thx anyway. Airsofters are gonna say ACU is going to be in the FFW program. You know why? Check the teaser or screenshots for the up and coming GRAW 2. The GHOST team is wearing ACU's instead of Multicam.
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/862/862426/imgs_1.html

[raph_g]

haha hadn't seen that. yeah video games are always a great basis for picking cammo....we should call DOD and let them know what Tom Clancy (or rather the software developers that market his name to sell computer games) has to say about it.

ps: airsofters: you want the mil guys to give you the props you feel you deserve? play it in your underwear. only the strong stay in and only the foolish survive

[Switek]

look at my pic

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1725/dscf3907ty1.jpg

more made in three seasons here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77712&highlight=unprofessional+test+camo).

this not not "objective test" but in digital camera ACU looks much better than in reality.... according my eyes it was just shinning... being a a patrisant who must cooperate with US soldiers I'd advice to use USMC marpat or old BDU woodland camo (or anything other)... sorry, that's the result... not my opinion

[raph_g]

There were 18 changes made to the uniform, to include removing the color black and adapting the digital print from the Marine Corps uniform to meet the needs of the Army.
The Army's Natick Laboratory in Natick, Mass., took the original digital pattern to the next level by developing a pattern for world-wide theaters to encompass both the BDU and DCU requirements. Black is no longer useful on the uniform because it is not a color found in woodland areas. The current colors on the ACU are green and sandy brown. The pattern is not a 100-percent solution in every environment, Myhre said, but a good solution across the board.

from: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/acu.htm

there was a better article somewhere, but this was the best i could find for now.

nice pic above too. i mean in reality each camo pattern is going to do well for certain environments and poorly in others, so i guess the discussion comes down to quality, where I'll admit the ACU has been shown to have major shortcomings

[TacoDelRio]

LOL. wasn't saying you were in the pic. But thx anyway. Airsofters are gonna say ACU is going to be in the FFW program. You know why? Check the teaser or screenshots for the up and coming GRAW 2. The GHOST team is wearing ACU's instead of Multicam.
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/862/862426/imgs_1.html

Haha you're so funny. No.

I have quite a few friends who play airsoft, who are in Iraq or Afghanistan right now. Oh wait, no airsofters have ever been in the military... damnit, I musta missed the memo.

[raph_g]

i play it - its fun. they key is just that you have to be able to separate airsoft (a game) from reality (where real people die). i'll admit though that airsoft is damn fun, except i can't play it where i live now.....

[Thatguy2695]

before you guys try to pawn off airsofters as a bunch of pussys I will be joining the military once I am out of high school. This is as close to combat as I can get right now joining the Military explorers once I get my eagle scout Hopefully go into Navy Seals debateing it since if you don't pass.... thats the only good job in the Navy and that new Blue digital camo you wear on the ships wtf is that. Digital pattern is supposed to hide you from IR so if you fall overboard how do they find you? your blue like water and uniform blocks IR just something to think about. and looking at the screens from the new Ghost Recon ACU's don't look nearly as good on the guys as Multicam did, I'd Rather pay the extra 150 bucks for awesome camo than 70 for ACU's

Real Soldiers:
I have a question that hopefully won't become a argument does the Army or Marine Corps have a better Sniper program. From what I have read the Marine Corps has a better sniper program. but Marine Force recon is not part of SOCOM which is really what I want to get involved in. so suggestions would be greatly appreciated

[amazing kg3]

i know were talking about real deal here, but seeing how it was such a huge boost for multicam, the new Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter (Graw2) is featuring acupat. so get ready to see alot of it in the airsoft community, if it applys to you.

[ABNINF]

before you guys try to pawn off airsofters as a bunch of pussys I will be joining the military once I am out of high school. This is as close to combat as I can get right now joining the Military explorers once I get my eagle scout Hopefully go into Navy Seals debateing it since if you don't pass.... thats the only good job in the Navy and that new Blue digital camo you wear on the ships wtf is that. Digital pattern is supposed to hide you from IR so if you fall overboard how do they find you? your blue like water and uniform blocks IR just something to think about. and looking at the screens from the new Ghost Recon ACU's don't look nearly as good on the guys as Multicam did, I'd Rather pay the extra 150 bucks for awesome camo than 70 for ACU's

Real Soldiers:
I have a question that hopefully won't become a argument does the Army or Marine Corps have a better Sniper program. From what I have read the Marine Corps has a better sniper program. but Marine Force recon is not part of SOCOM which is really what I want to get involved in. so suggestions would be greatly appreciated

1st off, don't be too anxious to get to combat. Airsoft is nowhere close to actual combat, so don't try to compare the two.

2nd: Force Recon no longer exsists, and the new Marine SOF unit does fall under SOCOM.

[raph_g]

before you guys try to pawn off airsofters as a bunch of pussys I will be joining the military once I am out of high school. This is as close to combat as I can get right now joining the Military explorers once I get my eagle scout Hopefully go into Navy Seals debateing it since if you don't pass.... thats the only good job in the Navy and that new Blue digital camo you wear on the ships wtf is that. Digital pattern is supposed to hide you from IR so if you fall overboard how do they find you? your blue like water and uniform blocks IR just something to think about. and looking at the screens from the new Ghost Recon ACU's don't look nearly as good on the guys as Multicam did, I'd Rather pay the extra 150 bucks for awesome camo than 70 for ACU's

Real Soldiers:
I have a question that hopefully won't become a argument does the Army or Marine Corps have a better Sniper program. From what I have read the Marine Corps has a better sniper program. but Marine Force recon is not part of SOCOM which is really what I want to get involved in. so suggestions would be greatly appreciated

this depends on what you mean by wanting to be a sniper. SOCOM stuff aside (youre not going to start here unless you do Army SF and make it through the direct enlistment program, but that's something to aspire to not something to bank on), if you want to creep around in the woods and be the romanticized "sniper team", go marines and go for scout sniper. if you want to be a squad marksman, something much different than a "sniper", either service will work. the marines have a larger focus on particular sniper units, but bother services use snipers and both have excellent programs.

[Thatguy2695]

I understand to not be in a hurry for combat but I've wanted to be a soldier since I was 10. I understand that airsofting is not like real combat but it's the closest I can get to it. I also didn't know that Force Recon no longer exists but I heard about their new SOF but it is "new" so I doubted I would be able to get in. I want to be more of the stalking sniper for Recon in a Ghille suit or a a Machine gunner either M240 Bravo or M60 the Saw I don't like so much cause it's .223. Fired a .50 Sniper up north and was addicted ever since it's illegal in Cali so haven't been able to fire it again.

[raph_g]

you'll come to love .223. farther faster and nastier to get hit by. plus the 240 is a bitch to lug around, it's like 30lbs and the stock feels like its bigger than your whole m4, haha and good luck shooting it standing up. if you wanna be a 240 gunner though, i can't blame you. it's amazing to shoot....

if you want ghille suit action, marines or Army SF is where you want to look, but don't kid yourself about what it takes. a sniper's life is defined by patientence, waiting and often disappointment. im sure you know what you're getting into, but i have to put that out there anyway...


edit: i dont mean to sound high handed, i'm not a sniper so i'll defer to any out there if they want to tackle this one or think i've done an insufficient job

[Thatguy2695]

Yeah like.. Jarhead never get to fire a round in combat or have to lay there for days waiting for intel yeah that would suck so maybe be like a Designated marksman would be better but yeah I have an M4 airsoft gun and love it, I like CQB but know it would be alot worse and very stressful in reality. I could just put a scope on the M4 like my gun and I'd be happy and ACOG's are standard issue right? How is the 203 GL?

[raph_g]

whether or not you get an ACOG or 203 is entirely dependant on your unit. you should focus first on becoming an infantryman, worry about what you're going to use later. make sure you join for the right reasons. there's a big big difference between shooting on a training range and shooting at real people. don't ever join for that. ever. don't join for a particular weapon or scope. join because you want to be a part of something bigger than yourself, you aren't so much joining a force as you are giving yourself. and there's something noble in that giving, but make sure that giving is something you're prepared to do


in the meantime, airsoft is a perfectly legitimate way to pass the time :).

[Midn./Patriot]

The U.S. Navy is coming out with a digital Camoflauge uniform also. It is blue, gray and steel colored. It is going to be called the Navy Working uniform and will replace about 7 different uniforms, including working khaki. The idea is not to blend in with the boat, but to hide the dirt and grease.

I'll be getting a pair sometime in 2007.

[~center~]

LT. Stewart, dear god, the couch commandos are screwin the pooch on answerin your simple questions so I'll answer them since I actually KNOW the answers.

Force Recon is alive and well in the Corps!!! MARDET is part of SOCOM and is made up of a number of hand picked Marines from numerous units. I was at Camp Pendleton a few months ago with my buddies (who are former recon types, scout snipers, infantry instructors, DM's, etc) and I stayed at my friends house on base who happens to be a senior scout sniper instructor. So I'd say I'm up to date on the Corps' spec op community. I'm also fortunate to have been a Designated Marksman with the Corps in Somalia, a current Federal instructor/SRT sniper team leader, and an ANG senior scout sniper.

Here's how the schools AND jobs go as far as marksmen go in the military/govt service....

1. The hardest and most intense basic course is the USMC scout sniper course which is 10 weeks (Navy SEALs have failed this course). Those instructors are unforgiving and are great at their job. ;-)

2. Next is the Army basic course which is difficult in it's own right. They cram a little more stuff into a 5 week course which brings up the difficulty level in a shorter course.

3. Next is almost a tie between the Army military police sniper course at USAMPS, often refered to as SRT phase II Observer/Designated Marksman (due to political correctness) & the Dept of Energy SRT sniper course. Keep in mind you can't go to these two courses unless your assigned to a SRT unit and have completed the Special Reaction Team phase 1 course for either the Army or DOE. These two courses are one to two weeks long but are extremely hard with a failure rate of over 70%. The last time I did this course a sniper instructor failed and had to be recycled.

4. Last is the Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps DM programs. These are either formal school training often not longer that 2 weeks, if that, or are infromal training gained through a "familiarization course" of some type. The FAM-FIRE could be as little as one day or up to two weeks.

All of these schools are highly coveted in the community and are not just handed out to people who "want to be a sniper". Frankly, being an expert marksman is only about 10% of being a good sniper. To put it bluntly, your going to have to put your time in wherever you go and show your team leaders, etc that you are mentally and physically ready for the sniper designation.

And lastly, back to the ORIGINAL posting... ACU is crap! The MARPAT desert works just as good as the ACU in an urban environment and works even better in the desert. The Army has succeeded in making a combat uniform that is as good as the old OD green fatigues in any environment and not really great in ANY OF THEM. Back to the drawing board.

Hope that helps and gives you an ACTUALLY acurate answer instead of the internet jibberish that tends to overflow around here.

Semper Fi

[ShotOver]

The Aiforce Space Shuttle Doorgunner Universal Program is the hardest, by far.

[~center~]

The Aiforce Space Shuttle Doorgunner Universal Program is the hardest, by far.

LMAO, actually I think that was combined with the Navy's submarine special underwater sniper soaker program.:)

[maple.leaf]

Picking up on a point from a few posts back:

Not all airsofters are a bunch of pansies. I'm a former 11B2P (Sergeant) with the 2nd Bn. 504th P.I.R. with 50 jumps and I've been airsofting for about 2 1/2 years now - I'm also a staff writer for Airsoft International magazine. One of our other staff writers is a former Ranger. Quite a few of the guys I've skirmished with in the UK are former Paras and Marine Commandos - as well as lots of other regular and T.A. (reserves) Army, Navy and RAF types as well.

We do it becuase airsoft can actually be a great realistic training aid - as well as a lot of fun.

And by the way, the airsofters who wear ACUs in UDCP are usually the geeks who have idea about the real deal - or they're deliberately trying to copy a modern US Army look - or they just do urban events. Nobody who knows anything uses it in the woods.

[Sabre]

Yeah like.. Jarhead never get to fire a round in combat or have to lay there for days waiting for intel yeah that would suck so maybe be like a Designated marksman would be better but yeah I have an M4 airsoft gun and love it, I like CQB but know it would be alot worse and very stressful in reality. I could just put a scope on the M4 like my gun and I'd be happy and ACOG's are standard issue right? How is the 203 GL?

Just a tip for you mate. Try and have a talk with someone who is currently serving. Find out about life in the forces and how that might suit you. Think about what happens after you leave, what you might want to do as an alternative. I don't know how old you are, but most of your influences seem to be games and films. I would hope that someone seriously considering life in the forces would be able to realise they are not representative of what you will be doing day-to-day.

It seems that you are interested in the military, in the kit and equipment particularly. I would suggest you consider this; that 99.9% of the tremendous effort and time service personnel invest in their jobs has nothing to do with firing weapons. That you will spend most of your time without a weapon and that you will have to face up to and deal with any number of challenges without one. You need to think about your personal qualities and how you can expand upon them before you join, and how service life will change you in that regard.

[Azn_US_Marine]

Hey center, thanks for beating me to it. You're out of your mind if you thought Force Recon was deactivated, that was Marine Det 1. "Lt." Stewart, judging from your post, you havent served, its not appropiate to use rank in your name that you dont rate. Im not a grunt, 0844 by trade but your assumption of 03s is wrong, just ask any of them that have been downrange. Sabre is right, Im one of the 99.9% that doesnt use their rifles regularly. The times I've been outside the wire have been short and uneventful so my loaded A4 hasnt been fired. You should learn movies and games DO NOT potray military life to a tee. We have to do things we normally dont want to do, we "hurry up and wait" and we may have the ****ed up NCO that seems to use his rank mainly to be a ****. Dont make assumptions of what the military is like until you graduate recruit training and make it into the operating forces, you dont know anything yet and guys like me dont like inexperienced people that act like they know all.

Airsoft is fun, I must admit, but I've only played with the other Marines in my section. I wear my cammies too but all I need is my boonie, eye pro and deuce gear (load bearing rig with attached pouches), no need to wear body armor. It doesnt hurt that much. Kneepads are good for my knees. Some of you airsofters that havent signed up yet need to know the difference between fantasy and reality. Airsoft guns are NOTHING compared to the real thing! A 6mm BB cant even penetrate bushes but a 5.56 round will kill you.

Back to topic, its funny another reason for the ACU's adoption is that "black is not a common color found in nature" If thats so, I wonder why my woodland digitals back home has plenty of black, yet it works so well.

[maple.leaf]

It seems that you are interested in the military, in the kit and equipment particularly. I would suggest you consider this; that 99.9% of the tremendous effort and time service personnel invest in their jobs has nothing to do with firing weapons. That you will spend most of your time without a weapon and that you will have to face up to and deal with any number of challenges without one. You need to think about your personal qualities and how you can expand upon them before you join, and how service life will change you in that regard.

Quoted for the fothermuckin' TRUTH!

[~center~]

Hey center, thanks for beating me to it. You're out of your mind if you thought Force Recon was deactivated, that was Marine Det 1. "Lt." Stewart, judging from your post, you havent served, its not appropiate to use rank in your name that you dont rate. Im not a grunt, 0844 by trade but your assumption of 03s is wrong, just ask any of them that have been downrange.

Np and well said.


Back to topic, its funny another reason for the ACU's adoption is that "black is not a common color found in nature" If thats so, I wonder why my woodland digitals back home has plenty of black, yet it works so well.


Exactly, and BTW 0844's are POUGES!!! Just kiddin brotha, had to say it since I'm a grunt. ;)

[scheer]

if you're running around the woods or open desert, MARPAT wins hands down. ACU is an urban camo, it fits the kind of combat that the infantryman will see in the 21st century.

Always planning for the last war, good move J/Kp-)
Also isn't the entire point of ACU that it will (is meant to) work everywhere? Being a 'universal' camo, or is the Army going to restrict all future ops to the cities and let the marines do all the openfield and wood/jungle work? Once again only joking don't kill me army guys!

I just don't get people defending the adoption of ACU on the basis that it just happens to perfectly suit the current operating enviroment, is the Army going to change its wardrobe every time it changes theatre?

[aj-0311]

When I point out the shortcomings of the ACU and it's ineffectiveness as a true "combat uniform", I usually get the "camouflage is overrated on the modern battlefield" excuse....

The Army way. If you have a failed program, use failed reasoning until it works.

[Thatguy2695]

I am 16 I'm going to college to get a major in medical science and then go into the military not for the money but to serve my country I understand that my everyday life won't be fireing my weapon,but Snipeing is just what I want to do when I join and who else to ask about it but actual soldiers.

Also I apologize for the display name I totally forgot, thats just been the name I put in for video games for the past I'd say 5 years so I apologize I haven't earned that rank let alone the respect of real soldiers Untill I have fought In the **** along side you or after you leave. If it bothers you guys I'd be happy to change it or just make a new sign in Name.

[Ratamacue]

I am 16 I'm going to college to get a major in medical science and then go into the military not for the money but to serve my country I understand that my everyday life won't be fireing my weapon,but Snipeing is just what I want to do when I join and who else to ask about it but actual soldiers. Let me get this straight...you want to spend four years in school studying medical science, then you want to enlist in the military and be a sniper?

Wow. I think you might want to try getting your priorities in order.

[Thatguy2695]

Parents are forcing me they are my meal ticket into college so if I go into the military against their wishes they won't pay for college my dad is ok with it as long as I go to college first mom is totally against it but when I'm 18 I can join if I want. I might, not sure though the GI bill and other programs could get me through college so still debateing.

[LaoSexMachine]

Parents are forcing me they are my meal ticket into college so if I go into the military against their wishes they won't pay for college my dad is ok with it as long as I go to college first mom is totally against it but when I'm 18 I can join if I want. I might, not sure though the GI bill and other programs could get me through college so still debateing.

It will. Just ask for signing bonuses. Start out at community college. Saves money.

[raph_g]

lt - don't make college a vocational experience, study what you want to study - army will pay for it (and give you a couple hundred a month stipend that grows as you go on) if you contract. and dont worry about where you're going, they offer full tuition scholarships regardless of where you're enrolled. my school's tuition alone is 40K+ and they want to pay all of it. all youll have left is room and board, not a bad deal in the end. my advice to you though: try ROTC for a semester, get the lay of the land, then contract. listen to the other guys in the forum here and see for yourself before rushing into anything.


edit: as for ACUs, i mean not everyone is going to like them, but it's not as if they've hurt the institution that is the United States Army. An army isn't made or broken by the color of their uniforms

[Azn_US_Marine]

Thanks for understanding Stewart. Im not making you remove Lt from your name as long as you dont run around claiming you're an Lt. in the military. Good for you for wanting to sign up, but make sure you know exactly what kind of MOS you want to do for at least 4 years, thats speaking from the enlisted side since Im not an expert on OCS or any officer commissioning programs.

Yes center Im a Pogue too but I was mainly speaking of the pencil pushers that work in an RPAC, they are the true Pogues in my eyes.

[~center~]

center Im a Pogue too but I was mainly speaking of the pencil pushers that work in an RPAC, they are the true Pogues in my eyes.

Yea, just had to give you a hard time you know, it's the Marine Corps way. Besides, in a war zone like Iraq, there arn't really ANY pogues. Some people just get shot at less than others. p-)

[not a aussiesoldier]

Why did the US Army use that color even the marines had a better idea for cammies and also The United States and its allies usually come up against there enemies army which cannot afford night vision for the digi cam to work.

[TacoDelRio]

Why did the US Army use that color even the marines had a better idea for cammies and also The United States and its allies usually come up against there enemies army which cannot afford night vision for the digi cam to work.

That's one helluva sentence.

[Sabre]

Parents are forcing me they are my meal ticket into college so if I go into the military against their wishes they won't pay for college my dad is ok with it as long as I go to college first mom is totally against it but when I'm 18 I can join if I want. I might, not sure though the GI bill and other programs could get me through college so still debateing.

Last OT post on this from me.

Mate, it's good that you have such direction and drive at the age of 16. Just bear in mind that there is plenty of time to decide on your career. Just keep in with college and enjoy what you do. Approach it with a positive attitude, try to do your best and in the mean time gather all the info you can on your options. Talk it out with mates, serving soldiers and your family. Most of all, dont close any doors that you dont have to yet. You will probably have a different take on things in two years time. Good luck.

back OT...

[aj-0311]

Why did the US Army use that color even the marines had a better idea for cammies and also The United States and its allies usually come up against there enemies army which cannot afford night vision for the digi cam to work.

If I understand Aussie-english correct, the ACU coloration was never properly field tested and was pushed into service by Army leadership. It's well known as a flop and ineffective. Please do NOT consider the ACU "camouflage" in any way, shape or form.

[Freedom-Fries]

It was a move to save money

[aj-0311]

Cost savings was one of the reasons claimed for the ACU, however this is not true.
It is not cost effective for the govt. to have each service in a different uniform, especially when BDU/DCU was already in service for some time and with three service useability.
It is not cost effective for the soldier when ACU patches cost three times as much and are stolen/lost quite often. I can have full sets of tapes, patches and badges sewn on two BDU's and be done with it for the cost of one set of ACU patches, which require replacement.

The ACU is NOT cost effective.

[ABNINF]

The ACU is NOT cost effective.

Yeah, it costs more and wears out in 6 months

[Frens]

ACU has an estimated wear life of six months... I think it's referred to a combat scenario, isn't it?
if so, how long does it take to a BDU to wear out in combat scenario (ie: Iraq, A-Stan,..)? I don't think a BDU would last more than six months too...

[raph_g]

look at the dude to the left in my cp. the black on him stands out more than the ACU neutral gray does.

are your concerns mostly over the pattern or the build quality of the uniforms?

[aj-0311]

Frens- All uniforms, ACU, BDU/DCU, MCCUU have a "combat life" of six months on paper. I was only issued two sets of DCU's and I made it through a whole year without replacement(as infantry). There were people who showed up with two sets of ACU's already ripped up/blown out from just the train-up in CONUS. It's like they're made of tissue paper.

raph_g- that same lack of black and "neutral gray" is what shines in a woodland environment. I still say there is a need for seperate uniforms as the "universal" claim of the ACU is pure bunk. Sure it works in urban/desert areas, but the DCU worked better.

[Thatguy2695]

hey old user name was Lt.Stewart anyway

look at Raph G's avatar picture if you look at the soldier to the left of the picture what stands out on him? the black thigh holster his weapon and a black pouch on his waist. The ACU pattern appears to be a good solution the Army wouldn't spend that much money on fielding the uniform if they thought it was bad.

My BDU's toar pretty easy, and my ACU's have been holding together nicely there all made by Proper but I toar through 2 pairs of BDU's in 4-5 months. So far I have been satisfied with the quality of ACU's but I'm not in them everyday.

[aj-0311]

Thatguy2695- My experience of the ACU is of an ACTUAL soldier. Yes, I'm a former Marine (8yrs) and am now Army (71/2yrs) and can tell you the ACU is NOT thought upon favorably by the infantry. The ones who need and wear "combat" uniforms the most.

Most people I hear say that the ACU is "comfortable" are correct and represent non-combat MOS's. But we don't feel short-changed because we can still wear BDU/DCU's in the field where it counts. That will change though with the mandetory wear date.

[Thatguy2695]

If their is a large dislike of the uniform why is the Army pushing for it? like I understand it is disliked you guys are soldiers not me. So what you say is right over me I only where my ACU's once a week where as you guys are in them every day. Looking more at the multicam I much rather pay the extra money for that over ACU's even if it is another 150-180 a uniform it has 330 cordura in it.

[maple.leaf]

If their is a large dislike of the uniform why is the Army pushing for it?

Becuase the brass at the top don't care what the grunts at the bottom think. Just look back at the furor over the black beret - and what that accomplished (nothing).

[CSM Snuffy]

Did any of you young bucks see the Predator films?

Just so you know, that alien camo system is where things are headed (back then it was only a special effect, today they're calling it "adaptive camouflage"). Of course this effort must begin on large, hard-surfaced, high-ticket items like aircraft, tanks and APCs. Eventually placing patches of it on personnel (say over the helmets and body armor first) and eventually building complete adaptive uniforms will make us almost invisible--if we could get people to be quiet that'd really be something! BUT, those things won't likely be as tough as the polyseter and nylon we're using now!

In terms of toughness, there are a lot of considerations: laundering, cost, hot/cold performance, lifespan and comfort being only a few. While some folks favor different uniforms for day-to-day, high-impact jobs (infantry, engineers, emergency repsonders, etc.), others argue that the single Army uniform for all personnel must be the same. But they can't answer when it comes to people with unusual duties like aviators, fuel handlers, tankers, etc.. Guess what Senator--they ain't all the same!

Which brings us to the next great debate: if someone made high-endurance ACU-pattern uniforms sewn to within the specs, could our soldiers wear them? There are about 20 really amazing fibers I've seen like aramid which you can't easily cut with a sharp assault knife! A uniform made of something really tough makes a lot of sense to me. I've seen casualties due to really crappy terrain which might have been minimized or prevented altogether by a super-tough uniform.

In terms of visual concealment, the ACU camouflage does well in live, multi-environmental tests using real people as viewers who are trying to see real people in ACUs. Philosophically you might have problems with ACU and everyone knows it's not perfect. Like all systems, it is very easy to see under certain conditions. But it's pretty good as long as you aren't being stupid. If you need to do a lot better invest in a ghillie suit, splatter some local dirt on your uniform and stick some foliage into the mix. In terms of being stupid, as I look at those pictures one thing comes to mind--poor concealment discipline. Perhaps those guys aren't concerned about it, but here's a hint...What's a military crest (terrain feature), and why does it matter? I'll tell you one thing, the sniper who spots them from 800 meters doesn't know what they're doing--but he sure can tell who they are!

Keep your head down!
Aright...BACK TO WORK:bash:!

[wild_wild_wes]

http://www.army.mil/-images/2007/10/24/9486/army.mil-2007-10-24-104154.jpg

[Dispatcher]

http://www.army.mil/-images/2007/10/24/9486/army.mil-2007-10-24-104154.jpg



You've been caught hotlinking. rofl

[wild_wild_wes]

Couldn't log on to my photo account at work

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/AyeGuy/army_mil-2007-10-25-021950.jpg

Soldiers from U.S. Army Europe's 1st Battalion, 94th Field Artillery, based in Idar-Oberstein, Germany, train on squad and team procedures alongside Romanian infantrymen at Romania's Babadag Training Area during the final phases of the Joint Task Force-East "proof of principle" exercise there