ACU'S are Garbage.

[alvarezinfantry]

It is perhaps the worst idea the US Army has adopted.
All of us that have worn them and did some IMT in them, can agree on one thing.
They freakin suck!!

I joined when the uniform was BDU's. Believe me people it took about 2 years for me to tear my BDU's for the first time.

Then the army started pushing this ACU idea around so that they would not have to buy any more Dessert Uniforms. So that we can use the same uniform for dessert , jungle or forest.

Who were they kidding!!!
Granted the ACU uniform breaks up a lot better seen through nods. But in the jungle or in the forest and in the day time its crap. They tear so fast. They need to be double stitched in the knees sleeves and crotch areas!!
Then they make us wear the desert boots with them too.
Take your desert boots to the swamp one time and you will have to buy new boots.

You will never be able to wear them in garrison again.
The ACU's fade and look white and grey after about a year of washing.
I say its a total waste of the soldiers money and the Amy's money too.
The uniform is hot garbage and the Velcro wears out in about a month around the cargo pockets.

Tan shirt?? even in country???
Check it out
make the ACU's the same material as the new Marine Corps greens Cammie's. Or at least make them greener ,lose the Velcro on the chest use zipper and in the cargo areas. use buttons instead.

The zip top is good but instead of Velcro need snap buttons.
and in country black under shirts and black boots would be nice.

They might be good in Iraq but the fact that it's poorly made and costly makes this uniform one of the worst Ideas ever!!

[stottman]

They work great to hide inside the ACU warehouse/factory where they seemed to have tested the pattern..

[Leonidas]

What is the fabric used for the ACU? I am not military nor have I ever been, and I know nothing about camofulage. But even so, I can never understand the logic of the ACU especially when you think about the fact that it's meant to be used in wooded or jungle type areas as well.
What do you in the army mate? if you dont mind me askinf of course

[alvarezinfantry]

What is the fabric used for the ACU? I am not military nor have I ever been, and I know nothing about camofulage. But even so, I can never understand the logic of the ACU especially when you think about the fact that it's meant to be used in wooded or jungle type areas as well.
What do you in the army mate? if you dont mind me askinf of course

Im in the INFANTRY right now I am the Squad atomatic rfleman.

the fabrick is supposed to work better for breking up the human siloete of figure. belive me it does not work

[stuntman]

The ACU's are perfect!
Trust me I am DELTA!

[Leonidas]

So you carry the M249 then? how is it to use and carry? and yeah I thought that they used ripstop for the ACUs but apparently not, is ripstop the material that the marine BDU is made from?

[SBL]

Given a comparison, would you say that MARPAT is superior to the ACUs, or do you think they're roughly equivilant, one just happens to be made out of tougher material?

I guess what I'm asking is, if the army switched over to something closer to MARPAT would it be acceptable?

[MPNFL]

hey bro what company did u graduate from? i just got back from AIT, Echo 2-19.

[SiFiOn]

Am I right when I say that Soldiers in the US Army, USMC etc have to buy their own uniforms (ACU's)?

[MPNFL]

Am I right when I say that Soldiers in the US Army, USMC etc have to buy their own uniforms (ACU's)?

in the Army you get issued uniforms when u join, im sure its the same for the marines

[alvarezinfantry]

The ACU's are perfect!
Trust me I am DELTA!
no the ACus are crap trust me Im In "X" platoon on FT benning that is all I can tell you but the Future force warrior camo we tested id by far better.

[Martino]

The ACUs are great. IF YOU ARE A JROTC INSTRUCTOR! I think that the Marines got the better deal uniform wise.
Yes the soldiers have to buy their own uniform.(They are issued uniforms off the bat.) I think it is around $90.00 for ACUs. It realy upsets me that we give our guys crap kit. I certainly hope that the ACU is replaced by somthing more survivable.

[TacoDelRio]

I like seeing pictures of soldiers in ITB wearing ACU's. They stick out like a sore thumb against the Georgia pines. Oh, but there's a special pocket for pens!!! That's gotta mean something!

Sorry about the moon camo.

Have fun in Benning.

[Leonidas]

no the ACus are crap trust me Im In "X" platoon on FT benning that is all I can tell you but the Future force warrior camo we tested id by far better.

Future force warrior camo? what's that like?

[alvarezinfantry]

So you carry the M249 then? how is it to use and carry? and yeah I thought that they used ripstop for the ACUs but apparently not, is ripstop the material that the marine BDU is made from?

I carry it with lots of nut's in hand bud!!! i like the M249 saw just fine i can get it up fast and really don't trust anyone else in the squad with it because they cant fix it fast enough. the collapsible stock and shorter barrel have made it a lot lighter. but its by far my favorite weapon

[alvarezinfantry]

Given a comparison, would you say that MARPAT is superior to the ACUs, or do you think they're roughly equivilant, one just happens to be made out of tougher material?

I guess what I'm asking is, if the army switched over to something closer to MARPAT would it be acceptable?


yes but the X platoon has tested better than that before, its just too costlly

[alvarezinfantry]

hey bro what company did u graduate from? i just got back from AIT, Echo 2-19.


Aco 2-19 the best drills on post run that!!

[TacoDelRio]

It's all about 1-50. Represent!

Working with 11th or 29th IN and their "experimental force" companies?

[alvarezinfantry]

It's all about 1-50. Represent!

Working with 11th or 29th IN and their "experimental force" companies?


29th the best damn exfor co in the world HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WCCKahuna]

In the mountains and urban areas the ACU works great. That's where we are currently fighting so...it works. Complaints about the ACU in jungle and woodland environments would be reasonable if we were fighting in those environments...but since we aren't...the complaints really have no effect. I guarantee we won't be using the ACU if we are ever deployed to the jungle/woods, too many lives would be lost. However, our current conflicts, which take place in urban and mountainous regions, are fit for the ACU.

[alvarezinfantry]

Future force warrior camo? what's that like?
I cant get too spesific but it is built better has adjustable knee and eldow pads that ca be removed from the uniform. its own slot for armor plates that slide on in to the top pice of the uniform it's self as far as anithing else i would be violating OPSEC if I continue.

[WCCKahuna]

I cant get too spesific but it is built better has adjustable knee and eldow pads that ca be removed from the uniform. its own slot for armor plates that slide on in to the top pice of the uniform it's self as far as anithing else i would be violating OPSEC if I continue.

You wouldn't be violating anything. The new uniform is Multicam by Crye Precision. It has a lot of new features. Check out the links>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_Warrior,,00.html

http://www.gdc4s.com/content/detail.cfm?item=aa0d1b86-ac8d-47ed-b59d-f8c2157beb7e

[SiFiOn]

in the Army you get issued uniforms when u join, im sure its the same for the marines

But when your through your issued ACU's, do you have to replace them out of your own wallet?

[WCCKahuna]

However, about the future force warrior, like alvarez said, some information is definitely confidential.

[alvarezinfantry]

You wouldn't be violating anything. The new uniform is Multicam by Crye Precision. It has a lot of new features. Check out the links>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_Warrior,,00.html

http://www.gdc4s.com/content/detail.cfm?item=aa0d1b86-ac8d-47ed-b59d-f8c2157beb7e


I see that its publick but the version beeing tested on post right now is slightlly difrent and untill the end of this years AAEF experiment we have been instructed not to specify on anthing we test. Just folloing orders you know how that isn

[WCCKahuna]

Yes I understand

[TacoDelRio]

I agree that ACU's work great in subalpine, alpine, urban, and some/most deserts, but if you get stuck with ACU's and are forced to work in a jungle/woodland/not-ACU-friendly environmnt, what the hell are you gonna do?

[Leonidas]

My guess would be that they revert back to the old woodland camo, I'm sure they've still got plenty of those lying around

[alvarezinfantry]

the old woodland ca-mo is not the best thing though I like the vietnamese tiger ca mo its defiantly a better blend, and breaks up way better.

[TacoDelRio]

My guess would be that they revert back to the old woodland camo, I'm sure they've still got plenty of those lying around

They do and will, but whoever is closest to the scene of the accident is the "first responder". I'm just curious how someone thinks they'll kinda re-issue woodland on a moment's notice thousands of miles from home.

Whatever. Carry on!

[Leonidas]

Would the army deem it to be too sacrilegious for them to simply use the Marine's BDUs?

[WCCKahuna]

I agree that ACU's work great in subalpine, alpine, urban, and some/most deserts, but if you get stuck with ACU's and are forced to work in a jungle/woodland/not-ACU-friendly environmnt, what the hell are you gonna do?

Agreed. You are so right on this one. ACU's are supposed to be universal...meaning they can be used in all environments. However, it turns out that the ACU is just another environment specific camouflage, just like the BDU and DCU. What I mean is...BDU is environment specific towards the jungle/woods/forest and the DCU is environment specific towards the desert/arid regions. And the ACU works great only in the regions you mentioned in your post; which means the ACU is environment specific as well. Not universal.

[stuntman]

I agree that ACU's work great in subalpine, alpine, urban, and some/most deserts, but if you get stuck with ACU's and are forced to work in a jungle/woodland/not-ACU-friendly environmnt, what the hell are you gonna do?

Have any of you been in a jungle? With all the cover the only thing you have to worry about are the negative areas. Which if you are using even cadpat you are in danger. So thats why you hit the ground if there is contact. NO big deal! Not to mention US military rides into battle with big ass tanks, ifv, apc's and copters. So it's not really a big deal unless we are in a defensive mode like in Vietnam. Then we (US) are fish in a barrel...

[BloodyTalon]

I wouldn't say ACU is crap. I don't have any experience in the army (yet) but from what i've seen from pictures of Iraq and Afghanistan it blends in pretty well. As for jungle/woodland, I don't know. The only time I've ever scene ACU is a jungle setting was the last time I played GRAW, and that doesn't count since its a videogame.

[WCCKahuna]

Have any of you been in a jungle? With all the cover the only thing you have to worry about are the negative areas. Which if you are using even cadpat you are in danger. So thats why you hit the ground if there is contact. NO big deal! Not to mention US military rides into battle with big ass tanks, ifv, apc's and copters. So it's not really a big deal unless we are in a defensive mode like in Vietnam. Then we (US) are fish in a barrel...

True. If you hide behind a tree or a rock you should be okay, no matter what you are wearing. But, if you are on a patrol, and someone is looking through their binocs, searching for enemy (a.k.a. you), then you might be spotted a bit quicker in ACUs, as opposed to Cadpat, Marpat, BDU, Multicam, etc.

[alvarezinfantry]

Would the army deem it to be too sacrilegious for them to simply use the Marine's BDUs?


they let former marines were marine core boots with the eagle and globe emblem.and we can were marine patches on army uniforms if you were attached to them in combat.

[TacoDelRio]

Have any of you been in a jungle? With all the cover the only thing you have to worry about are the negative areas. Which if you are using even cadpat you are in danger. So thats why you hit the ground if there is contact. NO big deal! Not to mention US military rides into battle with big ass tanks, ifv, apc's and copters. So it's not really a big deal unless we are in a defensive mode like in Vietnam. Then we (US) are fish in a barrel...

Big ass tanks don't do too fantastic in a muddy jungle.

No, I've never been in a jungle, but it would still be anti-smart to wear light colored uniforms in a very green place, regardless of the average visual range or distance or whatever you'd call it.

When someone's life is on the line, you don't settle for a halfass camo pattern. Not trying to grill you or anything, just saying.

[WCCKahuna]

I wouldn't say ACU is crap. I don't have any experience in the army (yet) but from what i've seen from pictures of Iraq and Afghanistan it blends in pretty well. As for jungle/woodland, I don't know. The only time I've ever scene ACU is a jungle setting was the last time I played GRAW, and that doesn't count since its a videogame.

They work great in Iraq. And in urban/mountainous regions like A-stan and other Middle Eastern countries we are currently deployed in. But, that's not the argument. The argument is whether or not they are universal, meaning they would also work in the jungle/forest/woods...in which case, they don't work (as well as others).

[WCCKahuna]

Big ass tanks don't do too fantastic in a muddy jungle.

No, I've never been in a jungle, but it would still be anti-smart to wear light colored uniforms in a very green place, regardless of the average visual range or distance or whatever you'd call it.

When someone's life is on the line, you don't settle for a halfass camo pattern. Not trying to grill you or anything, just saying.

Amen, man.

[Switek]

Besides camo (crap for me, which can be used in all enviroments between where BDU and DCU works fine ;)) of ACU I'd like t know your opinions about its whole design, training/combat advantages and disadvantages and used fabrics...

[alvarezinfantry]

Would the army deem it to be too sacrilegious for them to simply use the Marine's BDUs?


Besides camo (crap for me, which can be used in all enviroments between where BDU and DCU works fine ;)) of ACU I'd like t know your opinions about its whole design, training/combat advantages and disadvantages and used fabrics...


the design is good but the Velcro has got to go. they tear really easy. The cargo pockets have Velcro that wears out fast and it needs buttons instead of Velcro. Another thing The bill in the Cap is hard as hell to bend into a cool curvy shape. as far as combat.

Its nice in urban environments. If you can keep it from ripping in the crotch area. and you might not want to take a knee to fast the knees are a weak spot too they rip fast. I don't like it. For what its worth the ACU is supper over priced for over all quality.

[WCCKahuna]

The fabric is really lightweight. If you catch the sleeve on a tree branch, it will most likely tear immediately. If you go ****e in leaves, or dry grass, the leaves/grass will stick to the velcro pockets. This gets very annoying. If you slide down a hill of rocks or hard dirt, the pants have a strong possibility of tearing. The velcro gets annoying because the name tapes do not cover all of the velcro on the chest, and sometimes your velcro sleeve pocket sticks to the open velcro on the chest. I think buttons or zippers would be better. The pattern is fine by me, the color only works well in urban/desert/arid/mountain/alpine regions. The velcro is okay in some instances, I like the ease of putting the name tapes and unit patches anywhere you want. The boots are fine. The only advantage of the fabric is the comfort. It is very comfortable. The pockets on the sleeves are great, I just wish they were button or zipper, not velcro. Overall, I'd rate the ACU a 5 out of 10. It's about half and half for me.

[alvarezinfantry]

The fabric is really lightweight. If you catch the sleeve on a tree branch, it will most likely tear immediately. If you go ****e in leaves, or dry grass, the leaves/grass will stick to the velcro pockets. This gets very annoying. If you slide down a hill of rocks or hard dirt, the pants have a strong possibility of tearing. The velcro gets annoying because the name tapes do not cover all of the velcro on the chest, and sometimes your velcro sleeve pocket sticks to the open velcro on the chest. I think buttons or zippers would be better. The pattern is fine by me, the color only works well in urban/desert/arid/mountain/alpine regions. The velcro is okay in some instances, I like the ease of putting the name tapes and unit patches anywhere you want. The boots are fine. The only advantage of the fabric is the comfort. It is very comfortable. The pockets on the sleeves are great, I just wish they were button or zipper, not velcro. Overall, I'd rate the ACU a 5 out of 10. It's about half and half for me.


I feel you on the zippers and the buttons. I hate wearing dessert boots in country I say black shirt and black boots. It would look nice. because even though they might be new boots like said earlier one trip to the swamp they are ruined. or red clay like we have in GA.

[stottman]

But when your through your issued ACU's, do you have to replace them out of your own wallet?

Yes, Every year, the Military gives you a clothing allowence... About $400.. What you use it for, is up to you.

[SiFiOn]

Does this $400 do the trick, or is it way to less ? (I don't exactly now what you have to buy in a year time, but since you have to replace your own ACU's, I asume it's not covering for your costs.)

[alvarezinfantry]

Yes, Every year, the Military gives you a clothing allowence... About $400.. What you use it for, is up to you.


yes you get the clothing allowance true. but when you have a uniform that cost about 200 bucks a set to include boots and name tapes. So you buy 2 a year there goes you're allowance. Plus repairs cost money too i have had one set restitched 3 times in two months from different areas. total cost over $30 bucks. then you have to have a nice set for garrison.
only for garrison that looks good all the time so now you have to buy a third set for the field. so now in the hole $230, and if the packing list requires 3 sets there goes you're good ACU's hope they don't rip or you have to spend another $10 to restitch and you you ruin you're set of garrison boots. there goes another $100 bucks eather way you will end up in the hole.

They are not worth it and the clothing allowance is too low. a simple solution is eliminate the clothing allowance and issue two to three sets per year. and you should be able to draw patches and class A stuff from supply free on a yearly basis and allowed a minimum maximum amount.

[alvarezinfantry]

Does this $400 do the trick, or is it way to less ? (I don't exactly now what you have to buy in a year time, but since you have to replace your own ACU's, I asume it's not covering for your costs.)


it does not cover it all bud. you need to buy the new dress uniform al kinds of crap . $400 bucks is a slap but at least its something.

[SiFiOn]

We are issued 3 uniforms, when one of them needs to be replaced, you can just swap it for a new one and it won't cost you a dime. Only t-shirts, underwear, socks etc are articles you have to buy out of your own payment. But when you get deployed, you will receive additional stuff. I can't rememder the last time I bought standard uniform articles. We are allowed (atleast in my unit) to buy some 'not-standard' clothing (e.g. gtx shoes, smocks etc. which you're not allowed on garrison ofcourse).

[Lt. James Anderson]

ACUs like a lot of other crap are about money ... Same with the black berets. Cosmetic "improvements" that waste money better used on some other stuff that don't cost as much.

[alvarezinfantry]

it is all about money the thing is that The US Army needs to get it straight the lowest bidder might not be the cheapest Idea in the case of the ACU. its costing the soldier a lot more than it should.

[Lt. James Anderson]

it is all about money the thing is that The US Army needs to get it straight the lowest bidder might not be the cheapest Idea in the case of the ACU. its costing the soldier a lot more than it should.

That's the idea.

[jagermeister]

its suppose to work every were, it doesnt granted. Yet it works fine in urban, desert and mountain regoins so im sorry but it works fine for the current conflicts. The fabric leaves something to be desired but unless were gonna go wage war in Vietnam i dont see a problem. No bitchin helps might as well suck it up.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Hey guys, this is coming from someone who wore the BDU AND the old style fatigues....any time the army switches uniforms, someone always has a complaint about them. I remember when the army was issued the old fatigues(for us from the old school)people said how wonderful they were to wear..I personaly thought them to be too confining, poor camo, and they tore just as bad as anything a going. This includes the old OG 107 uniform worn by the rangers. When the Army went totslly to BDU, people cpomplained they were way too hot, too baggy(the baggy ness kept them cool) and they needed starch(starch is not good for any clothing..stops the air flow and shines like a neon lamp under nods)And I remember the days when we had to shine those boots to a high gloss shine(waste of time and a totally tactical ****oo)Yes, the BDU had its problems..is it a better uniform? I do not think so...does it last as long the old fatigues? yes it did, but the hot weather BDU tore easily too and lasted not as long as the heavy weight version. As for camo, ACU works in urban, desert and mountains, and to an extent, woodland areas as well. So, as with any army uniform, people will gripe, and someone always has a better idea. The only thing I gotta say is this..wear that uniform with pride..it represents the USA.

[TacoDelRio]

We may not be fighting in urban or desert areas in the next war. Unless life ends abruptly, or the US dissolves, there will be US Army infantrymen fighting in a jungle environment. Just a question of when.

ACU works good above the treeline, with less rocks. (I spend time there). Below that, you could do better.

If I'm not mistaken, the fabric used for ACU's (the vast majority) is mostly cotton-poly blend, like the old winter BDU's, right? Not good stuff in the mountains, could do better. Insulates a ton for the desert, no go. I'll leave that open for folks who actually wear ACU's in Iraq. I was issued normal BDU's, before ACU's, and only own a basic set of ACU's because I had too much money at one time.

[TacoDelRio]

8th Pathfinder: Excellent point.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

I have one more point...before the Army fields any system(whether it be weapons or clothing, they make sure it is tested very throughroly before it is issued to soldiers in the field. And sometimes it may not be the best quality right at first(after a few issues, new problems will be identified and fixed) So, cheer up. It will get better. And as for velcro....have you EVER got one of the buttons on the BDU caught on camo netting? Talk about the fly in the spider web!!

[8thidpathfinderpower]

8th ID
Pathfinder Power=DIVARTY
Baumholder, FRG 1983-1984,1985-1989

[TallGuy]

If I'm not mistaken, the fabric used for ACU's (the vast majority) is mostly cotton-poly blend, like the old winter BDU's, right?
The ACU fabric is similar to the hot weather NYCO ripstop BDUs, just a bit more lightweight. The MARPAT BDUs are more like the old winter BDUs.

[Canuck Farrier]

MARPAT is awesome!ACU is crap.No offence to anyone who likes ACU.

[RECON DOC]

Hey guys, let's be realistic here. Utility, durability, comfort, concealment, these things don't mean sh*t.
What really matters (and don't think I dont know that you all feel the same way that I do on this) Is that you LOOK COOL.

[TacoDelRio]

Hey guys, let's be realistic here. Utility, durability, comfort, concealment, these things don't mean sh*t.
What really matters (and don't think I dont know that you all feel the same way that I do on this) Is that you LOOK COOL.

Get the new M2006 PUU (Pimp Utility Uniform)

Thanks for the info Tallguy. I didn't know if they were issuing 50/50 NYCO ACU's.

[RECON DOC]

Get the new M2006 PUU (Pimp Utility Uniform)


This is how I roll.

http://www.ba.no/multimedia/archive/00537/team-america-versjo_537604g.jpg

[TacoDelRio]

Alec Baldwin proof suits? NOT A CHANCE! :)

[WCCKahuna]

I have one more point...before the Army fields any system(whether it be weapons or clothing, they make sure it is tested very throughroly before it is issued to soldiers in the field. And sometimes it may not be the best quality right at first(after a few issues, new problems will be identified and fixed) So, cheer up. It will get better. And as for velcro....have you EVER got one of the buttons on the BDU caught on camo netting? Talk about the fly in the spider web!!

Good point. Just like the M-16 and the Bradleys. For instance, let's take the M-16. When it came out it no longer used the 7.62 round. People didn't like that, because they want that power. Also, it supposedly didn't need to be cleaned...WRONG! It immediately started jamming and costing soldiers their lives. These were just a few problems among many. Fast forward to today...the M-16A2 is an amazing weapon. The customability, the range, the firepower, the durability. And then came along the M4, which is another amazing weapon. Eventually, crappy things get better as soldiers complain and offer new ideas. This happened with M-16, Bradley, BDUs, etc. It is sure to happen with the ACU. It's only a matter of time.

[DESPERADO]

im in the florida national guard and my unit still has some guys with bdu's and some with acu's and just by looking at those two side by side is a huge difference!! iv'e noticed that the only places that the acu would look good is on gravel pits and the moon!! lol i think the army should of been diferent and gone to multicam instead of copying the marines!! we all know that the acu sticks out in woodland!! i mean its not an ugly pattern and it looks good with desert boots but its not combat worthy i think!!

[WCCKahuna]

Multicam was too expensive

[TacoDelRio]

Multicam was too expensive

Not if you use... FORCED LABOR!!! :):):)

Or outsourcing. I imagine it would be cheaper if done in the Dominican Republic like everything else. Just a matter of time.

[WCCKahuna]

Not if you use... FORCED LABOR!!! :):):)

Or outsourcing. I imagine it would be cheaper if done in the Dominican Republic like everything else. Just a matter of time.

Yes, yes indeed. It is all just a matter of time. I believe MultiCam will show up...some way, somehow. If we run into a jungle conflict tomorrow, I guarantee that either ACU will phase out or it will still be there and we will just use either BDUs or MultiCam for the new jungle war.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

The ACU was designed for combat under reduced visibility in mind. This includes urban areas as well as others. From personal experience, I decided to go out and purchase a set of ACU from the PX at Ft.Douglas in Utah. In the daytime, out in the open(for a camo in bright sunlight, this uniform is not too bad at a distance, and this is not taking into account shadowing from sun light, and other factors)(shadowing or sillouette,even with multicam is a problem)At night, it gets better. And beings with current US Army doctrine emphisising warfare at low light levels, this pattern was picked to be the most effective. I find in urban areas, the pattern performs wonderfully superior to DCU. The pattern, the Army admits it is not a 100% performer in all enviroments, but I personally think it is a step in the right direction. Now, as for all those wonderful buttons on the BDU....I would like to shoot the person responsible for sewing them on in the first place. It seemed that every time I went out for a FTX, I would end up tangled in someones camo net. Talk about a pain in the ol'patoose!! This is why the army decided to go with VELCRO. Altho not the best, it sure beats the buttons hands down in my opinion. Not to mention the only factor I could see wrong with the velcro was the noise it produces which is a problem for opsec. There is my fashion review of the ACU. It is not eye catching, or being sold in New York for top dollar to fashion models. But it is being issued to the troops, and from what I hear from some of my buddies in the Utah guard, it is pretty comfortable too.


Be thankful the powers to be do not have the complainers of the ACU wear pink spandex and a tutu into battle. This was considered, but beings that it was decided our troops would fall over laughing too hard, this was not the uniform of choice.

[ABNINF]

Worst Uniform EVA!

[Canuck Farrier]

Good point. Just like the M-16 and the Bradleys. For instance, let's take the M-16. When it came out it no longer used the 7.62 round. People didn't like that, because they want that power. Also, it supposedly didn't need to be cleaned...WRONG! It immediately started jamming and costing soldiers their lives. These were just a few problems among many. Fast forward to today...the M-16A2 is an amazing weapon. The customability, the range, the firepower, the durability. And then came along the M4, which is another amazing weapon. Eventually, crappy things get better as soldiers complain and offer new ideas. This happened with M-16, Bradley, BDUs, etc. It is sure to happen with the ACU. It's only a matter of time.

wasnt part of the problem with the M-16 crap ammunition causing alot of fouling.

[DESPERADO]

the ACU is not an ugly uniform and it looks good with the tan boots but i think it should of been a navy or coast guard uniform!! besides who uses camoflauge as concealment anymore!!! except for special forces and units like that?? i like it but i dont but on the good side its really comfortable and you dont have to iron it!!

[p51]

Another thing The bill in the Cap is hard as hell to bend into a cool curvy shape. Yeah, what the heck is in those bills, anyway, sheet plastic or something? The first thing I ever did with my BDU caps were to roll the bills, "redneck style." I also never washed the things, they'd get almost black from use eventually. Any good soldier has at least one "field" cap that will retain it's shape when off of someone's head. Can't really let an ACU cap get all funky like that, though, as it's real obviously dirty, and Sarge will ride your @$$ right hard if you do...
I find it really funny that due to grossly confusing regs on the subject, most soldiers I see at Ft Lewis are using the "hey, show me where it says I can't do this" excuse and wearing their soft caps instead of the berets with the ACUs. I think everyone was looking for an excuse to rid themselves of the damned things and the overall confusion with ACU right now is giving them excellent cover to do just that.
Amd what about th supply chains? Within the past two weeks, clothing sales at Ft Lewis finally got a shipment of ACU MICH covers. I'd been making due with a aftermarket one from Ranger Joes, which lacked the IR dots and tapes. I've heard from the CSM several times, "Sir, when are you going to get the right kind of pot cover?" to which I'd point out our low-speed, high-drag S-4 never has the damned things and they couldn't be purchased until recently. Hard to go with the unit standard when the required stuff simply cannot be found at any price, huh?

[Erik2a4]

the ACU is not an ugly uniform and it looks good with the tan boots but i think it should of been a navy or coast guard uniform!! besides who uses camoflauge as concealment anymore!!! except for special forces and units like that?? i like it but i dont but on the good side its really comfortable and you dont have to iron it!!

Uh, yes, we still use camo. Even in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Erik2a4]

Yeah, what the heck is in those bills, anyway, sheet plastic or something? The first thing I ever did with my BDU caps were to roll the bills, "redneck style." I also never washed the things, they'd get almost black from use eventually. Any good soldier has at least one "field" cap that will retain it's shape when off of someone's head. Can't really let an ACU cap get all funky like that, though, as it's real obviously dirty, and Sarge will ride your @$$ right hard if you do...
I find it really funny that due to grossly confusing regs on the subject, most soldiers I see at Ft Lewis are using the "hey, show me where it says I can't do this" excuse and wearing their soft caps instead of the berets with the ACUs. I think everyone was looking for an excuse to rid themselves of the damned things and the overall confusion with ACU right now is giving them excellent cover to do just that.
Amd what about th supply chains? Within the past two weeks, clothing sales at Ft Lewis finally got a shipment of ACU MICH covers. I'd been making due with a aftermarket one from Ranger Joes, which lacked the IR dots and tapes. I've heard from the CSM several times, "Sir, when are you going to get the right kind of pot cover?" to which I'd point out our low-speed, high-drag S-4 never has the damned things and they couldn't be purchased until recently. Hard to go with the unit standard when the required stuff simply cannot be found at any price, huh?

Wow...this entire thread is in Joe-speak. It's been awhile since I spoke it, but I think I get the gist.

P51: Dude...why are you buying issue stuff? I have ACU coming out of my ears at Bragg. Have your 4 (or a competent 91Y) look up the NSN. Bingo! You got gear. It sounds like the system isn't broke; your unit's supply channels are.

The ACUs work fine in certain environments. No, they don't work in the US woodland. No, I don't like the idea of just one "universal" camo. But, yes, it works well enough for now.

Oh, and the bills are like the old KW PCs from Benning. Which are highly coveted btw. They now make them in ACU.

Edit: 8th Pathfinder is on the money with his comment.

[jagermeister]

wait i thought ACUs are all thats evil in this world:roll:

[stottman]

yes you get the clothing allowance true. but when you have a uniform that cost about 200 bucks a set to include boots and name tapes. So you buy 2 a year there goes you're allowance. Plus repairs cost money too i have had one set restitched 3 times in two months from different areas. total cost over $30 bucks. then you have to have a nice set for garrison.
only for garrison that looks good all the time so now you have to buy a third set for the field. so now in the hole $230, and if the packing list requires 3 sets there goes you're good ACU's hope they don't rip or you have to spend another $10 to restitch and you you ruin you're set of garrison boots. there goes another $100 bucks eather way you will end up in the hole.

They are not worth it and the clothing allowance is too low. a simple solution is eliminate the clothing allowance and issue two to three sets per year. and you should be able to draw patches and class A stuff from supply free on a yearly basis and allowed a minimum maximum amount.


I have no problem ever making the $400 last for the year.... You need to manage it better; get Clothing Sales DPP, buy a cheap sewing machine to do all the repairs yourself rather then handing it to Koreans on Victory Drive, etc..

Company supply is supposed to have all patches, etc...

Just be glad you were not in the BDU era, where you spent $15-20 a week pressing your uniform, etc..

And like all "general purpose" items meant to replace several items, the ACU combo is serves all purposes ok, but not great in any....

[WCCKahuna]

The ACU really isn't all that bad. It has some faults and sure, it could be better. But, the BDUs and DCUs weren't the best either. The big problems of the ACU will eventually be fixed once higher gets the idea. I believe one of the main reasons people don't like the ACU is it's a change. We have been so used to BDUs and DCUs that the change to the new uniform comes unwelcome. Soon enough everybody will be used to it, and I guarantee when another uniform comes out some people are going to be saying, "This sucks, we should have just kept the ACU."

[aj-0311]

I understand that the ACU is unfortunately here to stay. What I can't believe is that it got as far as it did. Lets face it, the overwhelming majority of the Army has no need or use for camouflage and from them I hear how comfortable and improved the ACU is. However those that come to rely on effective camouflage as a mission asset (infantry, cav scout etc.) can see it is a failure. We are being told that the ACU is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the average joe with common sense sees through the hype. The "universal" coloration blends nowhere and actually attracts the eye in most cases I've seen. There are soldiers who are replacing the velcro on the cargo pockets with buttons and have resorted to dying their "field uniforms". I know it's completely unauthorized, but it works, so it continues to happen.


As for the "no starch, no press" claim for the ACU, I walked into a cleaners off base and saw rack after rack of ACU's starched and pressed. I knew the "no press" wouldn't last because the same thing was said for the BDU. Soldiers want to look good. It's unauthorized, but it will happen.


I agree it was time for a change, but IMO the Army took a step backward with this uniform. This is no "combat" uniform by any means, however I hear it works well at the office.


At least we still have a year left before the BDU wear out date. Contrary to what I'm told, it's cheaper to maintain and does the job it's supposed to when in the field

[8thidpathfinderpower]

For all of you who choose to complain about the ACU, the army has decided to discontinue fielding, and issue this instead.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

wait i thought ACUs are all thats evil in this world:roll:
If you think the ACU is evil, take a look at what the marine corps was wanting to issue before MARPAT

[SafetyCatch]

Best...thread...ever!

[jagermeister]

If you think the ACU is evil, take a look at what the marine corps was wanting to issue before MARPAT


lol there pussies no matter what they wear. Im J/K.

I hated the ACUs at first but the more i wear them the more i like em.

[WCCKahuna]

lol there pussies no matter what they wear. Im J/K.

I hated the ACUs at first but the more i wear them the more i like em.

So true for me too

[HoboWithAK]

Am I going to be the first to potentially call bull**** on Mr. "X" Platoon?

Also, please learn to use better English. If you are an American Soldier, you represent all of America. You will make us look like a nation full of retards if you keep talking like that.

[ABNINF]

The idea behind the ACU's is OK. If they would make it more durable, issue a woodland pattern version, with buttons rather than velcro, it would be OK. What I want, is a uniform I don't have to replace every 8 months or so, because that's the expected lifetime of the uniform in extended field use. I had 4 sets that I babied all the way through, and they were trash by the end.

[aj-0311]

I heard a salute report where a patrol was spotted some 1100 meters distant in a woodline because they were wearing their BDU's inside out(old school aggressor thing I guess), come to find out they had on ACU's. I realize these are not supposed to be guillie suits but damn, it's like a turd floating in a glass a milk, you can't help but notice it.
As far as the official "no starch, no press" crap. I walked into a cleaners off base and saw rack after rack of ACU's starched and pressed. I knew that wouldn't last long, because the same was said for BDU's.
The military shouldn't be a fashion show, however it certainly has turned into one. The Marines did it right identifying the need to stay with two seperate uniforms for different AO's and in doing so created effective field uniforms. The Army took a fantasy concept of "universal camouflage" and made a universal failure. Damn, even pogue civilians armed with nothing more than the MK1 eyeball can see this garbage doesn't work. And now the Air Force and Navy have jumped on the bandwagon to see who can surpass the Army in creating unprofessional and ineffective "uniforms".

[alvarezinfantry]

d;ofhasofyh

[stuntman]

Hey Alvarezinfantry, don't give him the satisfaction!
And since when the hell is the Army or internet running a spelling B?

On the other hand I am sorry about you family not understanding, I understand that Mexico has a serious stand on non violence and I see why your family is upset with These United States looking all imperialistic lately (I don't believe we are).
By the way have you seen the MEX militaries new Assualt rifle FX-05?
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6360/dsc02739xko46ta5.jpg

[Remington Rand]

I like seeing pictures of soldiers in ITB wearing ACU's. They stick out like a sore thumb against the Georgia pines. Oh, but there's a special pocket for pens!!! That's gotta mean something!

Sorry about the moon camo.

Have fun in Benning.

Good one. Special pocket for pens! They should keep the ACUs with the pens: in the rear with the gear. Those things really stick out.

RR

[WCCKahuna]

Hey Alvarezinfantry, don't give him the satisfaction!
And since when the hell is the Army or internet running a spelling B?

On the other hand I am sorry about you family not understanding, I understand that Mexico has a serious stand on non violence and I see why your family is upset with These United States looking all imperialistic lately (I don't believe we are).
By the way have you seen the MEX militaries new Assualt rifle FX-05?
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6360/dsc02739xko46ta5.jpg

Looks like a G36

[Limeyfellow]

Looks like a G36

Pretty much is with a few modifications.

[budgie]

Would the army deem it to be too sacrilegious for them to simply use the Marine's BDUs?

The Marines might.

I wouldn't say 'garbage' but the ACU could have been better.

Actually I drew up an 'all terrain' digital pattern on my PC - just pulled it out of my arse - then tested it against the ACU superimposed on environmental pics. It came out much better. The secret? Brown. I dunno why they skipped that in the ACU. My pattern was four colors - a typical beige base 30%, medium brown 30%, a medium olive 25% and a dark grey 15%. In the desert it would come off like the old chocochip pattern and in the woods it's darker and greener than ACUs.

It seems to me that either too much research or not enough went into the ACU.

[WCCKahuna]

The Marines might.

I wouldn't say 'garbage' but the ACU could have been better.

Actually I drew up an 'all terrain' digital pattern on my PC - just pulled it out of my arse - then tested it against the ACU superimposed on environmental pics. It came out much better. The secret? Brown. I dunno why they skipped that in the ACU. My pattern was four colors - a typical beige base 30%, medium brown 30%, a medium olive 25% and a dark grey 15%. In the desert it would come off like the old chocochip pattern and in the woods it's darker and greener than ACUs.

It seems to me that either too much research or not enough went into the ACU.

You are correct. Brown is a key ingredient to a good camo uniform, especially if you want to make that uniform universal. I'm willling to bet that the Chocolate Chip camo would be better universal camo than even the ACU.

[HoboWithAK]

Woo-wee. I never said i'd call you out on being in the Army, you dumb ass. Maybe English does have something to do with it, after all...

I know plenty of people in positions they aren't readily at liberty to talk about. They don't go advertising like you do. They simply say what they have to say, within reason of what they legally can, and say no more. It's the fakers who come out and say "Oh yeah, I was with so and so unit, but that's ALL I can tell you...". Especially on the internet.

Good for you, if you are in the Army and trying to become an American citizen. You're doing the right thing compared to the thousands of free-loading asshole Mexicans who come across the border and live off my tax money.

And yes, English does have a lot to do with it. You're an American, you speak it, you should be able to do it well. Sorry that I hold such high standards for my fellow Americans.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Blame this guy...he is incharge of soldier systems devolopment at Natuck

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Here is a attempt at urban camoflauge earlier in the devolopment of the ACU.......

[aj-0311]

The Marines might.

I wouldn't say 'garbage' but the ACU could have been better.

Actually I drew up an 'all terrain' digital pattern on my PC - just pulled it out of my arse - then tested it against the ACU superimposed on environmental pics. It came out much better. The secret? Brown. I dunno why they skipped that in the ACU. My pattern was four colors - a typical beige base 30%, medium brown 30%, a medium olive 25% and a dark grey 15%. In the desert it would come off like the old chocochip pattern and in the woods it's darker and greener than ACUs.

It seems to me that either too much research or not enough went into the ACU.
Hell, as far as coloration, kids with crayons could've come up with better camouflage. You're right about brown being an essential color that was left out. As it is the ACU has a day-glo effect in all environments that I've seen.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

See, the military really researches what types of camo that will be the most effective...and this camo was issued to all SEAL teams operating in africa.

[seraosha]

Did my time at Fort Polk, LA
Bosnia and Haiti (thanks clinton)

ACU's would have stuck out like a sore thumb.
Hate to say it, but the Marines got it right with their MARPAT.

Focusing on current deployments is one thing, but not planning ahead for different environments is moronic.

Then again, look who we are talking about.
:roll:

[Roanoke]

It would be nice if ACUs became a dedicated Urban/Mountain/Desert uniform and the Army decided to make a good woodland uniform that actually works. MARPAT and CADPAT being perfect examples of what to do.

Multi-Cam looks pretty good as a universal camoflague. It doesn't work perfectly in every environment, but it at least works kinda well in wooded areas without sacrificing desert concealment.

Perhaps a digital Multi-Cam?

[WCCKahuna]

It would be nice if ACUs became a dedicated Urban/Mountain/Desert uniform and the Army decided to make a good woodland uniform that actually works. MARPAT and CADPAT being perfect examples of what to do.

Multi-Cam looks pretty good as a universal camoflague. It doesn't work perfectly in every environment, but it at least works kinda well in wooded areas without sacrificing desert concealment.

Perhaps a digital Multi-Cam?

Yes, an ACU dedicated only to Urban/Mountain/Desert would be nice. And then a second uniform that favors Woodland/Jungle. I believe a digital Multicam would be good, but if the objective is to "save money", then using the BDU for the Woodland/Jungle environments would be most efficient; considering we still have those all over the place.

[WCCKahuna]

Plus Crye Precision said they would not digitize the Multicam uniform. They responded saying, "Why fix something that isn't broken?"

[Roanoke]

The answer being "Because the US Military has standardized digital uniforms and you're not going to get a contract unless you get on the digi-train."

[TacoDelRio]

Hobo, why call BS on PFC Alvarez here? Not everyone takes the time to spell everything right. Granted it helps, but in the end...

Alvarez, how do you like the ExFor companies? A former battle buddy of mine transferred to USAREC out of 29th.

[p51]

First of all How dare you question my integrity. What does English have to do with anything right now. You just put yourself in a bad place. Never question the integrity of another soldier unless you have absolute proof of the opposite. I am 100% Mexican I am not yet a US citizen.

I betrayed my home country when I joined the United states Army. But you can never question this! I Chose to join during a time of war knowing fully that as an 11 Series soldier, that I would face combat! Never ever doubt that I will Kill and Die for this country with dignity and Pride.

I have family members in the Mexican Army that will no longer speak to me. So never question my Commitment as a soldier to serve. It saddens me to think that I have to serve along side twisted morons like you.
Who's pride and mouth can never stack up to make half a real soldier,but will stack up to apile of sh-t!

You are your own enemy.

Please call my chain of command and ask them about me.
My last name is Alvarez. and If you do call they all know who I am.
I swear to you you will get an ear full of what you need to hear you F--kin Moron!!

The number to staff duty is (706) 544-7477
I fall under the 1/29th Inf Regt
Aco. 1st Platoon EXFOR Air assault

my team leader is SGT XXXX
my squad leader is SSGT XXXX
my platoon Sergent is SFC XXXX
my First Sergent if FSGT XXXX
My platoon leader is LT XXXX
My Commander is CPT XXXX

Let me give you some advise for future stupid things you might say or do.
1.Know who you are about to Challenge
2.Know you are going to most likely win
3.before you check someone check your self.

oh and by the way My English is good how is your Spanish?
Geez, don't have a stroke, man! rofl
Lots of people online claim to be what they aren't. Trust me, I could easily make people I'm a Secret Service Agent, Navy SEAL, Delta Operator, or any manner of thing simply by posting photos I have taken or found online, name names and places that gel to back it all up. Nobody would no any better unless I named a specific person or place that someone on this forum knows and they'd think, "Hey, I was there for that, and I know this guy wasn't there on that date…"
Heck, at Ft Lewis PX, I saw someone being carted away by the MPs once, they were ripping the SF patches off his (non-velcro) BDUs and a Green Beret CSM was walking behind him with a look of hatred carrying an extra green beret (which I could barely make out a 5th GP flash on it). I was told later that the guy was a poser, never served, and had the nerve to walk onto post dressed with every tab a person could have. The CSM apparently started playing the "who do you know?" game and the chump failed. I never heard anything else on it, but there's a guy who walked onto a post doing it. You think there's not a million ljokers ike that online?
Go read the posts that I have made, where I discuss being an Army officer, but does anyone here for certain know I'm not lying? Sure, I know I have the uniforms in the closet and the ID in the wallet, but would you really know I'm not, say, a kid in his parent's basement? You don't! The difference is I understand you can't know this for sure, and I have no issues if anyone wonders for sure if I am who I say I am...
I have no issues that you are who you say you are. But sheesh, for anyone really knows, you could be a one-armed redheaded 11 year old girl in the Klondike who knows how to look up names online.
Get over yourself, soldier!:cantbeli:

[Limeyfellow]

You're doing the right thing compared to the thousands of free-loading asshole Mexicans who come across the border and live off my tax money.



Damn right. We immigrants that are here legally and working our arses of are sick of free-loading asshole americans who live in the country just because they are born here and live off our tax money. They should get a damn job or clear off back to czechsolvakia.

[jagermeister]

Geez, don't have a stroke, man! rofl
Lots of people online claim to be what they aren't. Trust me, I could easily make people I'm a Secret Service Agent, Navy SEAL, Delta Operator, or any manner of thing simply by posting photos I have taken or found online, name names and places that gel to back it all up. Nobody would no any better unless I named a specific person or place that someone on this forum knows and they'd think, "Hey, I was there for that, and I know this guy wasn't there on that date…"
Heck, at Ft Lewis PX, I saw someone being carted away by the MPs once, they were ripping the SF patches off his (non-velcro) BDUs and a Green Beret CSM was walking behind him with a look of hatred carrying an extra green beret (which I could barely make out a 5th GP flash on it). I was told later that the guy was a poser, never served, and had the nerve to walk onto post dressed with every tab a person could have. The CSM apparently started playing the "who do you know?" game and the chump failed. I never heard anything else on it, but there's a guy who walked onto a post doing it. You think there's not a million ljokers ike that online?
Go read the posts that I have made, where I discuss being an Army officer, but does anyone here for certain know I'm not lying? Sure, I know I have the uniforms in the closet and the ID in the wallet, but would you really know I'm not, say, a kid in his parent's basement? You don't! The difference is I understand you can't know this for sure, and I have no issues if anyone wonders for sure if I am who I say I am...
I have no issues that you are who you say you are. But sheesh, for anyone really knows, you could be a one-armed redheaded 11 year old girl in the Klondike who knows how to look up names online.
Get over yourself, soldier!:cantbeli:

holy crap man well said......

[JokerDMX1]

And now the Air Force and Navy have jumped on the bandwagon to see who can surpass the Army in creating unprofessional and ineffective "uniforms".

I saw a Cheif last month field testing our new uniform (AF) It looks just like the ACU. The only difference is ours is tiger striped

[WCCKahuna]

I saw a Cheif last month field testing our new uniform (AF) It looks just like the ACU. The only difference is ours is tiger striped

Yup. It's the ABU.

[Erik2a4]

I understand that the ACU is unfortunately here to stay. What I can't believe is that it got as far as it did. Lets face it, the overwhelming majority of the Army has no need or use for camouflage and from them I hear how comfortable and improved the ACU is. However those that come to rely on effective camouflage as a mission asset (infantry, cav scout etc.) can see it is a failure. We are being told that the ACU is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the average joe with common sense sees through the hype. The "universal" coloration blends nowhere and actually attracts the eye in most cases I've seen. There are soldiers who are replacing the velcro on the cargo pockets with buttons and have resorted to dying their "field uniforms". I know it's completely unauthorized, but it works, so it continues to happen.


As for the "no starch, no press" claim for the ACU, I walked into a cleaners off base and saw rack after rack of ACU's starched and pressed. I knew the "no press" wouldn't last because the same thing was said for the BDU. Soldiers want to look good. It's unauthorized, but it will happen.


I agree it was time for a change, but IMO the Army took a step backward with this uniform. This is no "combat" uniform by any means, however I hear it works well at the office.


At least we still have a year left before the BDU wear out date. Contrary to what I'm told, it's cheaper to maintain and does the job it's supposed to when in the field

Do something about it. Yes, easier said than done...especially when you don't have much on the sleeve or shoulder. But whining is only productive if it leads to action. Even if the only thing you can do is say "When I'm in charge, I'll be damned if we do that."

Do I still have BDUs and DCUs? Yes. However, they are heavily modified, and for field use. Such as adding pockets and velcro. I have added buttons to my ACU pants. I couldn't imagine not modding my gear for the field. However, I HATED seeing soldiers (to include myself) spending money on getting BDUs starched and sewn. Complete waste.

I was watching a panel discussing Military Intelligence on C-SPAN today. It consisted of the Deputy Chief of Staff, and several LTGs. To include the CG of the 82nd Airborne.

None of them wore starched ACUs. Only one or two wore pin-on badges.
Trust me, it wasn't long ago that it would be a cold day in hell before the CG of the 82nd was caught without Airborne Wings and Spit and Starches. But times are different, and the Army is moving towards comfort and ability over appearance.

Those issues with starching uniforms, etc., that you mentioned? That is a failure of the Commander and Chain of Command.

[WCCKahuna]

I found some pics where it looks like the ACU colors are working well...

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-10-10-094732.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-10-09-100657.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-09-20-085718.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-09-22-092516.jpg

[Frens]

more pics ;-)

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/8601/p3280011om1.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/eudes/aao.sized.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/eudes/aar.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/abninf/aar.sized.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/abninf/abu.sized.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/abninf/acg.sized.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/abninf/aci.sized.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/abninf/agk.sized.jpg

http://sparrowunit.smugmug.com/photos/51344412-L.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/Rich275/IMG_00242.jpg

img215.imageshack.us/img215/8350/csa20060907093217bg8.th.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csa20060907093217bg8.jpg)
img181.imageshack.us/img181/4995/csa20060608094253jk5.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csa20060608094253jk5.jpg)
img181.imageshack.us/img181/9593/csa20060504124542zy5.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csa20060504124542zy5.jpg)
img181.imageshack.us/img181/3514/csa20060317093753nq3.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csa20060317093753nq3.jpg)
img181.imageshack.us/img181/9103/csa20060227085524ul2.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csa20060227085524ul2.jpg)
img181.imageshack.us/img181/8043/csa20060207091032dh1.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csa20060207091032dh1.jpg)
img129.imageshack.us/img129/6116/csa20060127110600ha4.th.jpg (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=csa20060127110600ha4.jpg)

[budgie]

It would be nice if ACUs became a dedicated Urban/Mountain/Desert uniform and the Army decided to make a good woodland uniform that actually works. MARPAT and CADPAT being perfect examples of what to do.


I still charge that a good universal digital pattern could be made with a little more care and thought. It could be done with as few as three colors although four is definitely preferable.

[WCCKahuna]

I still charge that a good universal digital pattern could be made with a little more care and thought. It could be done with as few as three colors although four is definitely preferable.

I believe 4 colors would be the best. Green, brown, tan, gray... some version of those colors, in a digital setup, would be my choice.

[WCCKahuna]

More good ACU pics...

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-10-04-085603.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-08-03-085625.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-07-27-093149.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-07-18-091153.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-07-07-082846.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-06-19-093007.jpg

http://bduvs.com/bdu_vs_acu/Camo_Test_and_Others_064.jpg

http://bduvs.com/bdu_vs_acu/Camo_Test_and_Others_060.jpg

[HazF16]

More good ACU pics...

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-10-04-085603.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-08-03-085625.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-07-27-093149.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-07-18-091153.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-07-07-082846.jpg

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-06-19-093007.jpg

http://bduvs.com/bdu_vs_acu/Camo_Test_and_Others_064.jpg

http://bduvs.com/bdu_vs_acu/Camo_Test_and_Others_060.jpg


whats the name of that camo pattern in your avatar sir? it doesnt look like ACU to me b/c it's more green & brown

[WCCKahuna]

It is the ACU. The color of the ACU changes depending on the amount of light in the picture. For instance, if you take a picture of the ACU with the camera flash on, or under heavy sunlight, it is going to look very gray. If you take a picture of it while it is in the deep woods, under no sunlight, or just anywhere where it is generally darker, it will seem more green and dark tan.

Take a look...

Lighter picture, lighter ACU
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/eudes/aao.sized.jpg

Darker picture, darker ACU
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/Rich275/IMG_00242.jpg

Pictures courtesy of Frens, thank you!

[Frens]

well they aren't really mine p-) I've stolen them from arfcom. there is a similar thread over there :-D


anyway I agree with you. acu's color change with different lights. that's a good thing IMO

[unpredictable]

i think that brown could be adopted and could work better in most of the situation.

[alvarezinfantry]

Damn right. We immigrants that are here legally and working our arses of are sick of free-loading asshole americans who live in the country just because they are born here and live off our tax money. They should get a damn job or clear off back to czechsolvakia.
Hey hey lets Not get Over exited.
Some people like the Idiot you are quoting. Thinks the Mexicans Are freeloaders, and they live off US Tax dollars. Whe the real deal is this..

For an illegal Alien to get decent Jobs, they have to buy a Fake SSN. so their employer is good on his taxes. The thing is this illegal alien that get a check have taxes and social security medicaid, state and federal taxes taken out of their checks like everyone else. But hey can file for a return because they can get caught. SO Illegal aliens are really contributing to Billions in unclaimed tax returns that the US Government never pays out. IT STAYS IN THE TRESSURY. oh and sence when do you hear American high school students say they want to grow up to be a vegetable picker or a lawnmower man???? so why the complaints about Mexicans taking all the jobs away???? Oh well some people will never get off welfare OH which by the way Illegal aliens cannot get. because of risk of being caught with that fake social.And some people will always be ignorant.

[jagermeister]

the fact there illegal is all i need to hear....

[Roanoke]

So why exactly has this gone from a discussion on how ACUs suck to a discussion on immigrants?

[jagermeister]

i dont know its taken a wierd turn.....i like the ACUs.

[ABNINF]

i dont know its taken a wierd turn.....i like the ACUs.

I hate 'em:-)

[jagermeister]

come on man there not gonna issue punisher uniforms so your never gonna be happy........p-)

[BIGdook]

The future warrior system just blew me away.

[WCCKahuna]

come on man there not gonna issue punisher uniforms so your never gonna be happy........p-)

Haha. Yup, got that right. I like ACUs too...

[budgie]

It is the ACU. The color of the ACU changes depending on the amount of light in the picture. For instance, if you take a picture of the ACU with the camera flash on, or under heavy sunlight, it is going to look very gray. If you take a picture of it while it is in the deep woods, under no sunlight, or just anywhere where it is generally darker, it will seem more green and dark tan.

Take a look...

Lighter picture, lighter ACU
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/eudes/aao.sized.jpg

Darker picture, darker ACU
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/Rich275/IMG_00242.jpg

Pictures courtesy of Frens, thank you!

Yeah I own some items and that avatar is just what it looks like to the naked eye. Tan and two shades of olive.
Cameras turn it anywhere from grey and white to blue.

anyway here's my idea of a shceme that would work 'okay' in all environments but not especially well in any one:

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/581/unicamip5.jpg

[HazF16]

It is the ACU. The color of the ACU changes depending on the amount of light in the picture. For instance, if you take a picture of the ACU with the camera flash on, or under heavy sunlight, it is going to look very gray. If you take a picture of it while it is in the deep woods, under no sunlight, or just anywhere where it is generally darker, it will seem more green and dark tan.

Take a look...

Lighter picture, lighter ACU
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/eudes/aao.sized.jpg

Darker picture, darker ACU
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/Rich275/IMG_00242.jpg

Pictures courtesy of Frens, thank you!

thanks a lot the ACU looks really good in those pics.

however, i've never seen any ACU that looks like the one in your avatar in real life-- regardless of the lighting. i guess it's just the photo

google "acu hat" and you'll get this

http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/images/product_images/ACU-Hat_tn.jpghttp://www.uscav.com/prodinfo/images/27464.jpg

the left one looks way better but every time i see the ACU in real life it actually looks more like the one on the right hand side

[VanLeeuwen]

a special pouch for pens? smart soldiers use pencils, they never fail you!!one!!!!11eleven!!!!1

[WCCKahuna]

thanks a lot the ACU looks really good in those pics.

however, i've never seen any ACU that looks like the one in your avatar in real life-- regardless of the lighting. i guess it's just the photo

google "acu hat" and you'll get this

http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/images/product_images/ACU-Hat_tn.jpghttp://www.uscav.com/prodinfo/images/27464.jpg

the left one looks way better but every time i see the ACU in real life it actually looks more like the one on the right hand side

Like I said, lighting plays a key role in how the color looks. You may have seen it in a very light environment. I own three sets of ACUs. In my home, in the woods, and at night, they look like the one on the left. Out in the sun, under no cover, they look like the one on the right. Generally, the colors are going to be somewhere in between these two photos, i.e. grayish-olive, and light tan.

[WCCKahuna]

Take a look at this image...

This displays what the colors of the ACU generally look like.

It is somewhere in between the two photos you displayed, not so dark that it is Army green, but not so light that it is white...

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-10-12-084942.jpg

As you can see, the soldier is not under direct sunlight, however, he is in a "brighter" area, as opposed to the deep woods per se.

Now compare it to this photo...

The ACU seems more green because, as you can see, the sun is going down...which obviously makes things darker.

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-06-30-095831.jpg

The ACU will adapt to light accordingly...and I will provide as many photos as needed to explain this to you.

Its colors can range anywhere from dark olive green and tan, to blue, to gray, and even white. It all depends on the environment.


Go find some real ACUs and examine them closely in different lighting. You will see a change.

[jagermeister]

my ACU and everyone elses less its been washed to **** and faded looks like his avatar.

[Whitcomb]

Blame this guy...he is incharge of soldier systems devolopment at Natuck

Its spelled Natick

[ABNINF]

come on man there not gonna issue punisher uniforms so your never gonna be happy........p-)

I'll was satisfied with the BDU's/ DCU's :-)

Here's a couple pics that compare the ACU's/ DCU's in Afghanistan

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2623/1000381lh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6258/1000382rj0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[HazF16]

Take a look at this image...

This displays what the colors of the ACU generally look like.

It is somewhere in between the two photos you displayed, not so dark that it is Army green, but not so light that it is white...

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-10-12-084942.jpg

As you can see, the soldier is not under direct sunlight, however, he is in a "brighter" area, as opposed to the deep woods per se.

Now compare it to this photo...

The ACU seems more green because, as you can see, the sun is going down...which obviously makes things darker.

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-06-30-095831.jpg

The ACU will adapt to light accordingly...and I will provide as many photos as needed to explain this to you.

Its colors can range anywhere from dark olive green and tan, to blue, to gray, and even white. It all depends on the environment.


Go find some real ACUs and examine them closely in different lighting. You will see a change.

thanks for your input sir i appreciate that.
i just read the whole thread.. good read

what do you think about the new air force BDUs?

[WCCKahuna]

It's actually called the ABU (Airman Battle Uniform). I currently have no opinions on it because I have not seen it put to the test yet. As far as I can see, it is not as innovative as the ACU. This is probably because most, not all, but most airmen are not on foot in the battlefield. Therefore, it does not require as much research and soldier feedback as the ACU does. Now, if you were to ask me about the new Navy uniform...I would say, from what I have seen of it, it does not seem like a step forward, nor a step backward, but just a step in the mud. I don't think it's going to go anywhere and I believe a lot of seamen will disagree with it. However, this is just an opinion and I can not back it with any evidence because I have not seen any feedback on the uniform yet.

[jagermeister]

well its the same as the BDU with a new pattern isnt it? i wont lie i could really careless what the airforce goes with.p-)

[WCCKahuna]

The ABU is actually a Tigerstripe pattern with light gray, dark gray and tan colors.

Here is a photo...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/USAF_Airman_Battle_Uniform.jpg

And the new blue Navy uniform...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9e/New_US_navy_Working_Uniform.jpg

[Roanoke]

Isn't the ABU just a digital tigerstripe with ACU colors?

[tahoe]

I thought Abu was the guy who runs the Quick-E-Mart on "The Simpsons"?

[WCCKahuna]

Isn't the ABU just a digital tigerstripe with ACU colors?

Sort of. It has a few different colors though.

[DESPERADO]

this is perfect moon camo!!

[BIGdook]

In ABNINF's pictures i saw the guys in the DCU's before the ACU's.

[unpredictable]

Each banch for us armed forces has a diferent uniform!!!!!it woold be better and more cheap creat a single uniform for all.I will give an idea :
1- tigrestripe
2- 2 variants like Marpat-desert and florest
3- boots like ACU
4- one version for urban with acu colors in tigrestripe

[WCCKahuna]

In ABNINF's pictures i saw the guys in the DCU's before the ACU's.

Same here :-)

[aj-0311]

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/akrebs71/CSA-2006-08-23-084836.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/akrebs71/tempdisplayimg87997il-1.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/akrebs71/CSA-2006-09-20-085759.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/akrebs71/CSA-2006-10-10-095125.jpg
Awesome, blends right in

This from the same Army that spent 200 mil for "Army Strong"?

Surely you jest

[James]

Have any of you been in a jungle? With all the cover the only thing you have to worry about are the negative areas. Which if you are using even cadpat you are in danger. So thats why you hit the ground if there is contact. NO big deal!

When I was in the USMC our woodland cammies worked fine in the jungle.

[RECON DOC]

When I was in the USMC our woodland cammies worked fine in the jungle.

They worked great in Panama for us.

[Ratamacue]

Awesome, blends right in

This from the same Army that spent 200 mil for "Army Strong"?

Surely you jestPhotos are a poor indicator of the effectiveness of camouflage, especially at that close of a distance. Camouflage is designed to work against the way that the human eye perceives things in real life, when there are factors like movement and depth perception in play. Additionally, no camouflage works at a distance as close as those photos, so instead most patterns are optimized to work at a longer distance where they might be useful.

[nimer bortuqaal]

This photo was taken from about 50 meters. A non moving person would be hard to see at 300+ meters. ACU's seem to me to work quite well in this environment and very hard to see when looking through NVG's. I'm not so sure that they are the best in all environments though.

[Remington Rand]

In the mountains and urban areas the ACU works great. That's where we are currently fighting so...it works. Complaints about the ACU in jungle and woodland environments would be reasonable if we were fighting in those environments...but since we aren't...the complaints really have no effect. I guarantee we won't be using the ACU if we are ever deployed to the jungle/woods, too many lives would be lost. However, our current conflicts, which take place in urban and mountainous regions, are fit for the ACU.
Interesting. I can see its use in urban areas. I think the old woodland BDUs were great when we were expecting to duke it out with the Russians coming across the Fulda gap but times have changed. Wouldnt want to wear it in the forest though.

RR

[WCCKahuna]

Check out this test guys, tell me what you think...

http://bduvs.com/bdu_vs_acu

[Sabre]

When I was in the USMC our woodland cammies worked fine in the jungle.

You're always p!ss wet through anyway. The main problem isn't blending in, it's standing out from the enemy. Everyone's DPMs end up very dark and wet so you actually need to have some easy IFF system to ID your own blokes from the en. Bit of red ribbon works great after a few days in the trees, stands out like fook.

[JokerDMX1]

It's actually called the ABU (Airman Battle Uniform). I currently have no opinions on it because I have not seen it put to the test yet. As far as I can see, it is not as innovative as the ACU. This is probably because most, not all, but most airmen are not on foot in the battlefield. Therefore, it does not require as much research and soldier feedback as the ACU does. Now, if you were to ask me about the new Navy uniform...I would say, from what I have seen of it, it does not seem like a step forward, nor a step backward, but just a step in the mud. I don't think it's going to go anywhere and I believe a lot of seamen will disagree with it. However, this is just an opinion and I can not back it with any evidence because I have not seen any feedback on the uniform yet.

All our ABU is, is an ACU thats been tiger striped. Ive seen it first hand, and thats the only difference. It also doesnt have all the pockets the ACU's have, I think thats about all. I had pictures of it, but i dont know where they went. Im just looking foward to no longer getting bitched at because my boots arent a mirror finish after crawling around on top of aircraft halfway through the day.

[Sabre]

Personally, I don't understand the need for either a specific navy or air force camouflage uniform. If Navy or AF personnel are 'on the ground', then surely the old woodland or DCU stocks should suffice. How on earth a blue/grey cammo uniform can even be proposed as useful as a daily uniform, I don;t know.

If you are an AF or Navy techie and have to do dirty/grimy jobs, then you wear coveralls. If you aren't, then chances are you'll be in an office or barracks. In which case a smart, practical and comfortable service uniform should do. Same goes for Navy pax aboard ship. Simply an easy-iron cotton mix shirt with some hard wearing,easy care trousers and boots/shoes. I'm actually an advocate of Army pax wearing barrack dress around the lines too.

[D-gin]

Each branch for us armed forces has a different uniform!!!!!it would be better and more cheap create a single uniform for all.I will give an idea :
1- tiger stripe
2- 2 variants like Marpat-desert and florist
3- boots like ACU
4- one version for urban with acu colors in tigerstripe

I think you have a great idea with this. It seems to me that this idea would be great for all the branches of the military plus be beneficial for the soldiers bank account, It would also make more since for visual recognition in combat instead of four different uniforms. Another thing is when ever you see a Air Force JTAC or a Navy EOD guy attached to a army unit there wearing ACU's anyway and when you see a Navy corpsman with USMC units there wearing MARPAT. but one thing I wouldn't have is No.4 on your list. I wouldn't have any ACU at all because even if you go to a urban area it will more likely then not be in the Middle East and with desert MARPAT colors you will blend in pretty well. If you go to a urban area in say South America or in Asia just use the woodland MARPAT plus does camo really help a hole hell of a lot when your walking around a city....Cheers Gentleman this is a very good thread.:)

[unpredictable]

I think you have a great idea with this. It seems to me that this idea would be great for all the branches of the military plus be beneficial for the soldiers bank account, It would also make more since for visual recognition in combat instead of four different uniforms. Another thing is when ever you see a Air Force JTAC or a Navy EOD guy attached to a army unit there wearing ACU's anyway and when you see a Navy corpsman with USMC units there wearing MARPAT. but one thing I wouldn't have is No.4 on your list. I wouldn't have any ACU at all because even if you go to a urban area it will more likely then not be in the Middle East and with desert MARPAT colors you will blend in pretty well. If you go to a urban area in say South America or in Asia just use the woodland MARPAT plus does camo really help a hole hell of a lot when your walking around a city....Cheers Gentleman this is a very good thread.:)

thanks and about u are right in the nº4 in my list i didn´t have seen the things that u have said.thanks bro.
maybe one day i put a draw of my idea.

[WCCKahuna]

Interesting. I can see its use in urban areas. I think the old woodland BDUs were great when we were expecting to duke it out with the Russians coming across the Fulda gap but times have changed. Wouldnt want to wear it in the forest though.

RR

Who would want to wear it in the forest? Seriously, I don't think anybody would agree to go into a forest full of enemy with that thing on.

Then, why do we have the uniform? It's simple...we aren't in the forest. Look how much money we have invested into our current conflicts; the uniform is a result of that. It works for the current environment we are in, and that's all that matters. When we are deployed to the jungle/forest, and we have not opted to use the BDUs or Multicam instead of ACUs...then the complaining will be nothing short of necessary. However, until then, we really aren't in trouble.

[aj-0311]

Who would want to wear it in the forest? Seriously, I don't think anybody would agree to go into a forest full of enemy with that thing on.

Then, why do we have the uniform? It's simple...we aren't in the forest. Look how much money we have invested into our current conflicts; the uniform is a result of that. It works for the current environment we are in, and that's all that matters. When we are deployed to the jungle/forest, and we have not opted to use the BDUs or Multicam instead of ACUs...then the complaining will be nothing short of necessary. However, until then, we really aren't in trouble.
You claim that the ACU is a result of our current conflict, if that were so, the DCU would still be a better option and it was already in the system. The Armys fantasy intent was to field one uniform for ALL environments, woodland/jungle included, hence its utter failure.

[WCCKahuna]

Too bad we won't be using it in the jungle/forest because too many soldiers will die from it. Things will change if we fight in those environments. I guarantee it.

[Canuck Farrier]

ACU works well in Urban Iraq and Afghanistans mountains If and When US Army operates in a greener environment I suggest MARPAT or CADPAT or the Old school uniforms.I think the OD green is good for everything afterall the man makes the camo and you cant fight a war by hiding so does it really matter afterall.

[budgie]

Those two hats above are exactly the same pic taken under different lights (probably with and without flash).

Take a look at the creases and the pixels - all in teh same place. What are the chances of that?

[budgie]

Isn't the ABU just a digital tigerstripe with ACU colors?

that's what it looks like to me - almost exactly the same three colors in a different pattern

[Hun Ranger (not real)]

Lat week i saw an ACU guy. And we compare our "suits" and my Wl worked better in WL areas than that piece of expensive crap. Its a fact. But there is another Fact . The army guys will be drop in Desert and Alpine Areas. Like the past 6 years, and the Marine guys drop in WL and other areas with in MARPAT. MAybe this is another reason.....


Ohh and our ****y and crapy uniform cost nearly 90 buck.

[TacoDelRio]

...the hell?

[_Kommando]

ACU isn't very good in woodland but it works great in urban and desert. I think we should keep ACU as our urban/desert uniform and use Multicam or something else for woodland.

[WCCKahuna]

Lat week i saw an ACU guy. And we compare our "suits" and my Wl worked better in WL areas than that piece of expensive crap. Its a fact. But there is another Fact . The army guys will be drop in Desert and Alpine Areas. Like the past 6 years, and the Marine guys drop in WL and other areas with in MARPAT. MAybe this is another reason.....


Ohh and our ****y and crapy uniform cost nearly 90 buck.

You do not make any sense. :backhand:

[WCCKahuna]

ACU isn't very good in woodland but it works great in urban and desert. I think we should keep ACU as our urban/desert uniform and use Multicam or something else for woodland.

I agree! Great post Kommando... you have pretty much summed up what I believe we should do too.

[Death.]

Lat week i saw an ACU guy. And we compare our "suits" and my Wl worked better in WL areas than that piece of expensive crap. Its a fact. But there is another Fact . The army guys will be drop in Desert and Alpine Areas. Like the past 6 years, and the Marine guys drop in WL and other areas with in MARPAT. MAybe this is another reason.....


Ohh and our ****y and crapy uniform cost nearly 90 buck.

omega7 ?!!!

[Hun Ranger (not real)]

what omega 7 ? :)

[_Kommando]

I agree! Great post Kommando... you have pretty much summed up what I believe we should do too.

Glad we agree. Do you play airsoft? I want to get a team started and you're the only person I can find that likes ACU.

[WCCKahuna]

Glad we agree. Do you play airsoft? I want to get a team started and you're the only person I can find that likes ACU.

Yes I play.

[_Kommando]

Do you live in Southern California?

[aj-0311]

Pictures really don't do justice for a proper comparison. There is really no substitute for actually observing in the field. From my previous posts, it's obvious I don't like the ACU, but let me explain why. The bitches about pockets, velcro and durability are a seperate issue for me. The colors chosen are a different matter. While in Afghanistan, the ACU matched rather well, but no better than the DCU. When one has a layer of moon dust covering everything, it's hard not to blend no matter what you're wearing.

I didn't question the ACU until I saw it in different environments. While the BDU is too dark for the grasslands, I noticed it tended to blend better because it could be confused with background clutter (bush, etc.) whereas the ACU attracted the eye because it didn't seem to belong there. I can't speak for everyone but my eye picked up the lighter/brighter coloration rather than the darker BDU.
Once in the woodline it was BDU hands down. The ACU was usually spotted quickly, even in the shadows. I say this because the soldiers were wearing woodland IBA/ACH and it was arms and legs that gave them away.

I realize that clothing is only one tool used in proper camouflage, however as a infantryman, I want the cards stacked in my favor. Hence why I don't buy the "universal" claim of the ACU the Army is touting. If patrolling or lying in ambush I want every advantage I can get. And good camouflage can mean the difference between success and failure.

In my opinion the Army took a step backward with the colors chosen. The so-called "foliage green, gray and sand" look more like blue-gray, light gray and off-white on my brand new never washed ACU's.

I hope we don't have to deploy to any green areas after the BDU wearout date.

[WCCKahuna]

Pictures really don't do justice for a proper comparison. There is really no substitute for actually observing in the field. From my previous posts, it's obvious I don't like the ACU, but let me explain why. The bitches about pockets, velcro and durability are a seperate issue for me. The colors chosen are a different matter. While in Afghanistan, the ACU matched rather well, but no better than the DCU. When one has a layer of moon dust covering everything, it's hard not to blend no matter what you're wearing.

I didn't question the ACU until I saw it in different environments. While the BDU is too dark for the grasslands, I noticed it tended to blend better because it could be confused with background clutter (bush, etc.) whereas the ACU attracted the eye because it didn't seem to belong there. I can't speak for everyone but my eye picked up the lighter/brighter coloration rather than the darker BDU.
Once in the woodline it was BDU hands down. The ACU was usually spotted quickly, even in the shadows. I say this because the soldiers were wearing woodland IBA/ACH and it was arms and legs that gave them away.

I realize that clothing is only one tool used in proper camouflage, however as a infantryman, I want the cards stacked in my favor. Hence why I don't buy the "universal" claim of the ACU the Army is touting. If patrolling or lying in ambush I want every advantage I can get. And good camouflage can mean the difference between success and failure.

In my opinion the Army took a step backward with the colors chosen. The so-called "foliage green, gray and sand" look more like blue-gray, light gray and off-white on my brand new never washed ACU's.

I hope we don't have to deploy to any green areas after the BDU wearout date.

Good post. I don't fully agree with everything you have said, but you made some good points. I really like MARPAT, what are your thoughts on it?

[WCCKahuna]

Do you live in Southern California?

Unfortunately no...:-(

[TacoDelRio]

Unfortunately no...:-(

Consider yourself lucky.

Kommando, whereabouts are you?

[jagermeister]

MARPATs are good but there really heavy and get hot fast i think.

[_Kommando]

Consider yourself lucky.

Kommando, whereabouts are you?

Riverside, CA.

[aj-0311]

Good post. I don't fully agree with everything you have said, but you made some good points. I really like MARPAT, what are your thoughts on it?
I've worn both the MCCUU (marpat) and the ACU and without a doubt the MCCUU is the best uniform in the US inventory. The Marines recognized the need to stay with two seperate uniforms for different environments.

I guess I took for granted the ability to wear a field uniform that actually blends with the surroundings...until the ACU misfortuned upon me. The MCCUU is a true field uniform. The only velcro was to secure the breast pockets(didn't wear patches anyway), the pockets are well thought out and unlike the ACU, stuff stays in the cargo pockets. It is durable as hell, unlike the tissue paper ACU. Some say it's too hot, but it's lighter in weight to the temperate BDU and with it's durability, that's a trade-off I'll happily make. Maybe it's just me, but I found them to be more comfortable also.

Honestly, it makes me cringe when I see that even our rucks are coming out in the ACU pattern. And I'm not the only one. IMO the ACU just doesn't look "military". It has "office" written all over it. Especially when I see a 1SG or SGM trying to act hard wearing ACU's and beret worn Chef Boy-ar-dee style.

Sorry, the last part was my own pet-peave:)

[WCCKahuna]

I've worn both the MCCUU (marpat) and the ACU and without a doubt the MCCUU is the best uniform in the US inventory. The Marines recognized the need to stay with two seperate uniforms for different environments.

I guess I took for granted the ability to wear a field uniform that actually blends with the surroundings...until the ACU misfortuned upon me. The MCCUU is a true field uniform. The only velcro was to secure the breast pockets(didn't wear patches anyway), the pockets are well thought out and unlike the ACU, stuff stays in the cargo pockets. It is durable as hell, unlike the tissue paper ACU. Some say it's too hot, but it's lighter in weight to the temperate BDU and with it's durability, that's a trade-off I'll happily make. Maybe it's just me, but I found them to be more comfortable also.

Honestly, it makes me cringe when I see that even our rucks are coming out in the ACU pattern. And I'm not the only one. IMO the ACU just doesn't look "military". It has "office" written all over it. Especially when I see a 1SG or SGM trying to act hard wearing ACU's and beret worn Chef Boy-ar-dee style.

Sorry, the last part was my own pet-peave:)

Ok, gotcha. I actually understand because I pictured a hardcore SGM in ACUs pacing back and forth, pointing and shouting at men. The image didn't seem "right" and it would be quite a spectacle to see it in real life. I enjoy MARPAT. I own a set and I will say that it is heavier, but if that keeps it from tearing, it's fine by me. It's great camo, very durable, very comfortable, accessable and it looks great. Hmm...I thought pogues were supposed to be smarter than grunts...? lol just playin with you guys. rofl

[scheer]

Kommando, doesn't using a seperate woodland camo rather defeat the point though? After all the concept behind ACU is that it's a universal camo scheme for wood/desert/urban, if you still have to use a different woodland scheme it makes the concept seem a bit silly.

I do actually think the idea of a universal camoflague is somewhat bogus, surely it would only really work in a heavily wooded, urbanised desert or built up, sandy, forest etc.

Although I'll say, I think it does seem to look quite good in urban enviroments. Also this is just personal opinion and isn't based on any direct experience with ACU so feel free to ingnore parts or all at your discretion.

[aj-0311]

Kommando, doesn't using a seperate woodland camo rather defeat the point though? After all the concept behind ACU is that it's a universal camo scheme for wood/desert/urban, if you still have to use a different woodland scheme it makes the concept seem a bit silly.

I do actually think the idea of a universal camoflague is somewhat bogus, surely it would only really work in a heavily wooded, urbanised desert or built up, sandy, forest etc.

Although I'll say, I think it does seem to look quite good in urban enviroments. Also this is just personal opinion and isn't based on any direct experience with ACU so feel free to ingnore parts or all at your discretion.
The main point of my posts were to emphasize the falacy of the so-called "universal" camouflage and the remaining need to have seperate uniforms for multiple environments. In our current AO's the ACU will suffice, however the DCU was still more than capable for the areas. I understand the Army wanting one uniform/coloration from a logistical standpoint, but at what cost, soldier survivability? My fear is that in the near future we might have to deploy to an area where the ACU's shortcomings will be apparent. I guess what I'm trying to say is that soldier feedback should be taken into account before full production was given the go ahead.

[scheer]

I couldn't agree more, that explains the success of so many of the private companies making kit which are set up by vets or at least advised by them. Don't forget the old murphys law though, 'you're equipment has been made by the lowest bidder' & you get what you pay for!

[aj-0311]

I couldn't agree more, that explains the success of so many of the private companies making kit which are set up by vets or at least advised by them. Don't forget the old murphys law though, 'you're equipment has been made by the lowest bidder' & you get what you pay for!
It doesn't have to be that way. I remember when the "marpat" was tested they asked ALL Marines what they thought of zip off sleeves and the tiger stripe version of the uniform. After command heard from the people that would actually wear it, the current version was fielded. Obviously, this was not done with the ACU, otherwise the complaints would not be so forthcoming.

[WCCKahuna]

The ACU is like pure communism, it looks great on paper, but when actually put into action, it fails. (at least in woodland environments)

[_Kommando]

Kommando, doesn't using a seperate woodland camo rather defeat the point though? After all the concept behind ACU is that it's a universal camo scheme for wood/desert/urban, if you still have to use a different woodland scheme it makes the concept seem a bit silly.

Yah it's silly but ACU doesn't work in woodland. They should scrap the whole "universal" thing and just have 2 uniforms.

[WCCKahuna]

Yah it's silly but ACU doesn't work in woodland. They should scrap the whole "universal" thing and just have 2 uniforms.

Agreed.
More good ACU photos...
http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/medium/2006/CSA-2006-10-17-093721.jpg (http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-10-17-093721.jpg)
http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/medium/2006/CSA-2006-10-17-093634.jpg (http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-10-17-093634.jpg)
http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/medium/2006/CSA-2006-10-16-100147.jpg (http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-10-16-100147.jpg)
Check out this great photo of MARPAT
http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/Lookup/2006101364759/$file/061007-M-3378S-014lowres.jpg (http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/2372CAF24BC7E82E85257206000B6501?opendocument)

[WCCKahuna]

Now, if the Army would just keep the ACU, and then adopt a woodland pattern just like the MARPAT shown on the last pic...that would be perfect.

[_Kommando]

Now, if the Army would just keep the ACU, and then adopt a woodland pattern just like the MARPAT shown on the last pic...that would be perfect.

I'd be happy with that as long as it's on the ACU platform. I love the slanted pockets and zipper on the jacket. Although a completely new design would be better. Maybe a more saturated ACU?

[aj-0311]

Agreed.

Too bad all of our gear is in ACU also. That, in a nutshell, tells me we're screwed for some time to come.

[scheer]

I may be insane, but couldn't the army use the MARPAT woodland pattern on ACU style platform?

I realise this may seem outlandish to some, but it seems quite odd to me, that if part of the logic behind ACU is to simplify supply and production why every service in the US forces seems to have a seperate procurement and R&D system.

But as I say, I may be insane.

[WCCKahuna]

Agreed.

Too bad all of our gear is in ACU also. That, in a nutshell, tells me we're screwed for some time to come.

Yes, indeed. It is also used as a recruiting tool. Another reason why the Army will probably continue to invest in it. Did you hear about the Army making BCT "gentler"/easier? After meeting recruitment goals this year, I think the Army got "recruit happy" and decided to keep the ACU alive and make an easier BCT. What does that say to hardcore military wannabes who plan on joining the best of the best, not like the rest and won't settle for less? It spells MARINES. The Marine Corps has gained considerable respect from military gurus everywhere. While the Army has gained...recruits. I guess that's why they call the USMC the Few and the Proud...

[Ratamacue]

Check out this great photo of MARPAT
http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/Lookup/2006101364759/$file/061007-M-3378S-014lowres.jpg (http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/2372CAF24BC7E82E85257206000B6501?opendocument)Here's a hi-res for those interested (and those that can't access .mil sites).

[WCCKahuna]

Hey Rata are you really a linguist?

[whutitdewboi713]

photoshop
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic05.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/4dly0ib.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/403wryg.jpg

[_Kommando]

Desert one is not needed. Normal ACU works great in desert.

[alvarezinfantry]

another thing that is really crappy is that there are still units out there that have green camo IBA's and Green camo knee and elbow pads or Mitch covers, and wear the stuff with ACU's

can you really be camouflaged in the dessert or else where with a freaking ACU uniform and woodland green gear.!! that is retarded! yes it might be a money issue with that unit or what not but still....It looks really jacked up and makes soldiers stick out even more.

Straight Garbage!!

[HoboWithAK]

Hey hey lets Not get Over exited.
Some people like the Idiot you are quoting. Thinks the Mexicans Are freeloaders, and they live off US Tax dollars. Whe the real deal is this..

For an illegal Alien to get decent Jobs, they have to buy a Fake SSN. so their employer is good on his taxes. The thing is this illegal alien that get a check have taxes and social security medicaid, state and federal taxes taken out of their checks like everyone else. But hey can file for a return because they can get caught. SO Illegal aliens are really contributing to Billions in unclaimed tax returns that the US Government never pays out. IT STAYS IN THE TRESSURY. oh and sence when do you hear American high school students say they want to grow up to be a vegetable picker or a lawnmower man???? so why the complaints about Mexicans taking all the jobs away???? Oh well some people will never get off welfare OH which by the way Illegal aliens cannot get. because of risk of being caught with that fake social.And some people will always be ignorant.

roflroflroflroflroflroflrofl

Are you serious?

roflroflrofl

[alvarezinfantry]

roflroflroflroflroflroflrofl

Are you serious?

roflroflrofl


Hey bud if you are going to leave a comment on this post please do it about the G!D! topic at hand, and that is the ACU! I would be glad to show you the facts everything that I wrote about the Illegal alien situation is true. You can read all about it on the Fox news wed site and many others. SO GET OF MY NUT'S!!! PRICK!

[alvarezinfantry]

HIT ME WITH AN INFRACTION FOR THAT ONE!!!!

BUNCH RACIST IGNORANT BASTARDS!!!:fork:

[Canuck Farrier]

pretty soon the US military is going to be as hard for me to tell apart as the Russian military with all these darn uniforms.just kidding.:)

[jagermeister]

na the hole point is there will only be one....

[WCCKahuna]

pretty soon the US military is going to be as hard for me to tell apart as the Russian military with all these darn uniforms.just kidding.:)

Haha. That's what I thought when I first saw the ACU...Soviet written all over it.

Here is my thought on the Army and the ACU:
The Army is slowly starting to depend more and more on technology that it has forgotten that being more practical can actually give you an advantage on the battlefield. The Army established Future Force Warrior, a program that will soon turn soldiers into machines...or computers. The 2010 FFW system is 75% dependant on computer technology of some form. The 2020 FFW system is 90% dependant on technology. This, my friends, is a bad thing. Sure, technology is great, but what will happen when your systems fail? Let's say they get severly damaged, or they go "offline", what is to become of the soldier? Well, when 75-90% of his survival is based on those systems, it probably means death for that poor young man. The ACU is a perfect example of this type of failure in our present day. The Army decided that technology is so advanced that it can create a "universal" camo. WRONG! Remember what happens when technology fails? Soldiers die! And that is exactly what will become of our soldiers who wear the ACU. They will be spotted, and they will die...especially in woodland!

So, what is the solution? BE MORE PRACTICAL! Look at the Marines, they fielded a practical uniform that works! And, they still use a compass and a map anyday instead of GPS. Their dependency on technology is scarce...and that is a good thing!

Keep advancing technology... but stop depending on it! And advance in baby steps...because face it...the ACU was a BIG STEP, in the WRONG DIRECTION!

[aj-0311]

Outstanding!

[scheer]

Once again though, why go to the trouble of developing a woodland ACU, you've already got MARPAT, why waste the time and money when you already have a similar system ready to go, unless it's just army can't wear marine stuff. ACU seems fine for desert and urban.

[nimer bortuqaal]

another thing that is really crappy is that there are still units out there that have green camo IBA's and Green camo knee and elbow pads or Mitch covers, and wear the stuff with ACU's

can you really be camouflaged in the dessert or else where with a freaking ACU uniform and woodland green gear.!! that is retarded! yes it might be a money issue with that unit or what not but still....It looks really jacked up and makes soldiers stick out even more.

Straight Garbage!!


I don't think the woodland color of an IBA or knee pads are going to make a bit of difference in a overt mission like most units are doing out in the desert right now. If a unit is doing a SR mission or something else sneeky sneeky, then I am sure they will be high speed enough to have the proper gear. I can see you still have a garrison mentality. Does it really matter if you match?

And this is a bit off topic, but what happens if I were to trespass on your land? I'd have to leave or face prosecution. What happens if I steal your car because I don't have one and need to get somewhere? Yup, I would probably go to jail. What part of illegal immigrant do you not understand? Illegal is illegal no matter what the law you are breaking is. If you're (not you specificall.... it's a general idea) in this country illegally, even if you are contributing in some way, it's time for you to leave. Laws are laws and it's time for our country to start obeying the laws we've laid.

Back on topic. I feel ACU's work in some environments, but I wouldn't have choosen this color combination if I were in charge. I feel the Marines have it much better.

[stuntman]

Haha. That's what I thought when I first saw the ACU...Soviet written all over it.

Here is my thought on the Army and the ACU:
The Army is slowly starting to depend more and more on technology that it has forgotten that being more practical can actually give you an advantage on the battlefield. The Army established Future Force Warrior, a program that will soon turn soldiers into machines...or computers. The 2010 FFW system is 75% dependant on computer technology of some form. The 2020 FFW system is 90% dependant on technology. This, my friends, is a bad thing. Sure, technology is great, but what will happen when your systems fail? Let's say they get severly damaged, or they go "offline", what is to become of the soldier? Well, when 75-90% of his survival is based on those systems, it probably means death for that poor young man. The ACU is a perfect example of this type of failure in our present day. The Army decided that technology is so advanced that it can create a "universal" camo. WRONG! Remember what happens when technology fails? Soldiers die! And that is exactly what will become of our soldiers who wear the ACU. They will be spotted, and they will die...especially in woodland!

So, what is the solution? BE MORE PRACTICAL! Look at the Marines, they fielded a practical uniform that works! And, they still use a compass and a map anyday instead of GPS. Their dependency on technology is scarce...and that is a good thing!

Keep advancing technology... but stop depending on it! And advance in baby steps...because face it...the ACU was a BIG STEP, in the WRONG DIRECTION!

I found this to be very honest and interesting, but I disagree.
The new technology that is being fielded works. We are not talking about Windows vista voice recognition technology that is buggy and flawed. We are talking about heart rate monitors, gps, blue force tracking and physical assessment software that has been found effective in hospitals for the better half of 30 years and they are nearly perfect. It is time for technology to stop being a component or just a plain addon and now soldiers should be emerged with superior technology in the battle field to keep the casualty rates higher for our enemy so that maybe they can think twice about engaging US forces in future wars.

All this talk about compasses and pen, paper VS. gps and MILSPEC PDA's is ridiculous and old thinking.This technology is developed and optimized over many years in order to help us reduce friendly fire, asses danger,accurate with positions , and be extremely efficient with lest danger to lives and better survivability.
The ACU is not the best in wooded areas. But lets get it out of our heads. The Russians are not commies(we are cool), we are not going back to Vietnam. Our greatest threat military wise is China and last time I checked if we ever have to go into there (God forbid) China is highly urbanized. There is no way she would beat us conventionally, so it comes down to city fighting and citys are grey and tan. Plus no one does it better then US forces on a large scale CQB fighting and when the sh!t hits the fan in a large city, so far the US is the only large scale (specialized) military to deal with such a fight and win it..
Hence our camo's emphasis on urban 1st, desert 2nd and wooded/jungle 3rd. Urban areas being almost impossible to conseal at a close level. And if anyone has seen the ACU up close it camos up in built up areas rather well. Next hardest to conseal in would be desert. ACU has tan all over it and the urban grey and foliage green are a color that wash out from a distance with brighter colors such as tan. Did I forget to mention the camo is 1/3rd tan. The easiest area to conceal is wooded or jungle area. Remember even thought CADPAT or MARPAT are the best camos currently, from a distance the colors darken while the vegetation keeps its same color no matter what distance. With ACU the confusing grey (eye has problem reconizing grey with other colors that are greater) helps the ACU blend with its surrounding background a little better. With the digitized pattern and no black in the uniform the scanning eye will most likly pass right over the acu's soft colors. Also in wooded/jungle areas there is so much cover and shadow that any subdude pattern would work.
My only real problem with the ACU colors is how much it stands out at close range with a tree line in the near distance, for that it sticks out like a sore thumb. But that makes up the least of your camo situation in current conflics.

My verdict on the ACU is that it gets a B+ for what it was designed for. US Army soldiers get plenty of body armor, tactics and a boat load of buddies who have thier backs. They are not some secondary defence force with a defencive stance with the need for a possitive based camo (see Cadpat) . The US military is a offensive push forward force not a force of snipers.
So please put the ACU into perspective and think about current and future conflicts in regards to the design.

[scheer]

I'm slightly worried by the recurring attitude of, 'ACU works fine where US forces are currently deployed so why worry?' The problem being, the time it would take to distribute more effective woodland camo, assuming you even had it to hand, let alone where thinking about developing new camos.

You should always be ready to fight the next war and you never know where it may pop up. Not that I'm having a pop at you Stuntman as I agreed with a lot of your points, which were IMHO very well argued and rationally presented.

I agree with your point on technology, if you've got it and it works, use it. Just so long as the basic skills don't suffer as a result. My problem with ACU is not one of advancement but that I disagree in general with the concept of a universal camo scheme.

[WCCKahuna]

I have no problem with our current technology. It's effective and it works.

BUT THIS IS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS...
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album112/acp.thumb.jpg

[stuntman]

I have no problem with our current technology. It's effective and it works.

BUT THIS IS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS...
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album112/acp.thumb.jpg

It looks like a cheap scifi movie future soldier outfit. But the technology being developed for that project is incredible.
You are talking about:


Headgear Subsystem
Combat Uniform Subsystem
Weapons Subsystem
Warfighter Physiological Status Monitor Subsystem
Micro-climate Conditioning Subsystem
Power Subsystem


To sum it up this system is being developed to better equip its soldiers.


The U.S. Army is developing an advanced infantry uniform that will provide superhuman strength and greater ballistic protection than any uniform to date. Also, using wide-area networking and onboard computers, soldiers will be more aware of the action around them and of their own bodies.

U.S. Army Natick Soldier Center
All in a effort to keep ahead of the game. I don't know about you guys but I hate a fair fight! Thats the point of this technology...

[WCCKahuna]

Yeah, and then when Johnson gets shot and his power goes down he is pretty much naked on the battlefield. Like I said, technology is great, but it should be used sparingly and should not become a dependancy. It should be developed in baby steps, not gigantic leaps. I'm sorry but I think 2020 is too early for all of this. We can't get ahead of ourselves. The greatest flaw of the ACU is that it is ahead of its time. We did not do enough research to properly create a true universal camo. Thus, we failed. And now we risk the lives of our soldiers. Timing is key in a process like this, and in this case, our timing is off...BIG TIME.

[WCCKahuna]

In 2060, the FFW system will probably be a good thing. In 2020, it could be the biggest mistake the US Army has ever devised. Why? We aren't ready yet. We do not have the technology to PROPERLY create this material. Therefore, it will be flawed and actually be WORSE than what we have now. Baby steps...

[stuntman]

I'm slightly worried by the recurring attitude of, 'ACU works fine where US forces are currently deployed so why worry?' The problem being, the time it would take to distribute more effective woodland camo, assuming you even had it to hand, let alone where thinking about developing new camos.
I think this is a great comment. I think the ACU is an attempt to over come this. Weather right or wrong is left to be unseen. I also feel that future wars are fought with the last wars tactics. The 3 colored US desert camo was developed because the Chocalate chip camo was designed with a fight in North Africa (libya) or Iran (Hostage crisis) and then we ended up fighting Sadam (old pal). The pattern wasn't effective, so right after the war was finished out came the 3 colored desert camo. We never fought in open desert because Sadams forces melted aways and now US forces were (and are) in a standoff-ish stance in a urban/desert/foliage area. Not to mention in a tan/grey wooded area know as Afghanistan.For the first time US military designers tried to pre-empt our current and possible our next area of operation with the ACU. Hell even the USMC's have a urban camo. The Army figured to take out the middle man and make one uniform. (modularity)

You should always be ready to fight the next war and you never know where it may pop up. Not that I'm having a pop at you Stuntman as I agreed with a lot of your points, which were IMHO very well argued and rationally presented.
Well ready in the past ment having the best stuff. As we see in current conflicts our best tanks M1's, Challengers, Merks and T72,80 and 90's are being destroyed by $90(USD)RPG's so the old way of thinking would be to go into your next fight with reactive brick armor on all tanks, ifv, apc's! Now the RPG has a tandem round, for just a couple Dollars, Euro's, Pounds more and the millions spent were in vain. Now it is time to think on some next level thinking. Why not send in lighter vehicles but with active protection. Then enter your trophy( Active Protection System) anti rpg, atgm interceptors and optimize your armor for IED's now with that thinking you are ahead of the game.. Thats how I see the new tech and Universal camo design.

I agree with your point on technology, if you've got it and it works, use it. Just so long as the basic skills don't suffer as a result. My problem with ACU is not one of advancement but that I disagree in general with the concept of a universal camo scheme.
The enemy is alot savier(spelling?) then guerrillas in the past. They now use encrypted radios, are trained by commandos from enemy states and they even use the dam internet as a edge against our current force. So basic training is not enough. Most western armies are becoming more and more specialized. And more must become less with budget restrictions and less man power. So technology must fill in the gaps. And this it does well. Plus if it breaks the user goes home happy, NOT DEAD!




1234567890

[WCCKahuna]

My argument is that the perfect combo of technology and practicality is ideal. Depending on one more than the other is not good. And I see instances where we are depending more on technology than practical skills. One MUST NOT outweigh the other. When both are used effectively, and are BALANCED, we have a military utopia...

stuntman, everyone knows that environment specific camouflage is better than "universal" camouflage...notice how Marines decided to create 3 ENVIRONMENT SPECIFIC camo patterns...this means that instead of trying to create one sloppy one that fails, they create 3 great camo patterns that all work great! It's a simple concept.

[Ratamacue]

Kahuna, the Land Warrior and FFW programs are not nearly as substantial, far-fetched, or ridiculous as you seem to think. Most of the technology involved is already available to the infantryman. The point here is to simply and streamline integration and access to it by making it part of the infantryman's uniform instead of tacking on more and more sh*t to their load each time something new comes out.

Additionally, these programs aren't meant as all-in-one packages, where everything involved gets fielded all together at the same time. For both the Land Warrior and FFW programs, all the technologies are developed as they come. So different pieces will be tested and evaluated, fielded if they work, and ditched if they don't. In other words, they won't be fielded until they're ready. For example, the 4th Battalion, 9th Infantry Regiment is currently training with and assessing the Land Warrior system to see if it is ready to deploy with them to Iraq next year. They're trying to figure out who it should be issued to, how to use it, when to use it, how effective it is, and how reliable it is. Moreover, the final decision as to whether it goes with them lies in the hands of the battalion commander, not the top brass. And frankly, I trust him and his men, who actually have experience with the system, to determine whether the system is ready, more than you.

Honestly, I don't understand what's with the aversion to technology in some people. You also have to remember that everything used in human warfare since prehistory is technological, not just recent developments in computers. Spears and clubs are technology. Creations like swords, axes, and armor were technological advancements as well. The chariot was a technological advancement. So was shifting from bronze weapons and armor to iron and steel. And the advent of gunpowder in cannons and longarms. And so on and so forth. The use of computers is simply another one, which has already been taking place for many years. Land Warrior and FFW (and FELIN and FIST and alot of similar programs being undertaken by other countries) are nothing more than another step in that particular evolution.

And I wouldn't put too much stock in the Future Warrior 2020 program. Whereas Land Warrior and FFW are actually intended to develop and field systems, Future Warrior is merely an attempt to conceptualize the next developments beyond the former two, and start exploring possibilities (see the UC Berkeley BLEEX project).

[scheer]

Once again stuntman, good points well made. I see that ACU was designed to simplify the logistics system but for this to work you have to assume that a universal camo works and I've yet to be convinced. Although this said ACU is a good multi enviroment camouflage, as you say it works well in desert, urban, mountainous scrub etc. But a woodland specific camo is still a requirment I feel, this is more so as I don't even advocate a whole new system just increase output of MARPAT or use same material on an ACU cut uniform.

I do agree with your points on the use of technology in the modern world, you have to try and ahead especially as with the internet etc, tactics and weapons systems develop on an almost daily basis, the R&D times of weapons systems has shrunk dramatically, ACU was introduced earlier than expected.

But it is also a rolling development with lessons being learnt and applied, the B52 has now been flying in various guises for half a century yet still plays and active role in modern campaigns. ACU id a new and revolutionary concept and I think it should be seen as a staging post rather than an end point!

I must also agree with WCCKahuna though, the kit does not make the man. Technology is only as good as the man using it. Basic skills are the foundation of good infantry, basic they may be but they can make the difference at the end of the day. The British army is a good case, they can't afford masses of advanced equipment and that which they do have often doesn't work well at least at first but they do have a great professionalism and determination.

[scheer]

Just wanted to add this is one of the best threads I've ever seen, a real rational and logical discussion taking in each others points, thanks guys here's hoping it continues!

[angry cow]

Land Warrior's main goal right now is taking all the stuff that we already lug around and making it lighter. The stuff they want to add, like GPS and Blue Force Trackers for PL, PSG, and SQD LDRs is already in use, but its kind of a bulky little device.

I like Natick, they spend most of their time trying to give us better and lighter everything, even MREs. Its just the mission that keeps getting heavier and heavier I guess.

[Azn_US_Marine]

Hello I am a Marine currently serving in Iraq and after reading through this thread I'd like to give my input...

I work in a FOB alongside the Army and I think the ACU is a waste of money. Its "universal" but I've only seen it work around rocks of the same color, and no not in a picture off the internet either. Over here they horribly stand out bright even when the Soldiers are walking behind a cloud of sand dust. Even when their ACUs are turning sandy color the bluish grey is still bright. Soldiers who still have DCUs on or tan flightsuits blend in much better, unless they wear ACU colored IBAs or helmet covers. The tan boots are the only thing that match the sand but in the woods they are too bright.

In garrison, it looks nasty. Velcro nametapes already look like they're starting to peel off and I dont like the cut either. The pen pockets are perfect for desk jockeys lol. Rank on the collar looks more professional and now I tend to eyeball female Soldier's chests alot more often than before lol. :) Everyone knows the beret issue sucks but it looks even worse with the ACU.

In the field, all that velcro may be more accessible but it will wear away after getting caked with mud and sand and several washings. Its not very tactical to hear loud rips from velcro opening either. The colors seriously dont project the levels of intimidation that I see with Woodland BDU & DCUs and with green/desert MCCUUs. Soldiers to me looked far more intimidating with DDUs and tri-colored gear than with the new ACU trash. If the ACU was made with 2 distinct colors like the MCCUUs, then it would have been alot better.

To the guy who asked if its sacreligious to wear our Marine cammies and to scheer, have you closely looked at our uniform? The MCCUU was made for Marines, theres the little EGAs with USMC printed into the pattern, the collar tag says "Made EXPRESSIVELY FOR UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS" and the EGA is embroidered on the left breast pocket. I take pride in the Eagle Globe and Anchor and worked hard to earn it and I dont want people who dont rate it to wear it. The Marines made this uniform to distingush the Marines from the other branches and I like to keep it that way. Yes Navy Sailors attached to FMF like Corpsman wear it too but rightfully so, they fight, sleep and die alongside the Marines they are attached to and the USMC is still part of the Dept of The Navy. We wont take a Ranger Tab and sew it on so hopefully Soldiers wont take the EGA and iron it on. And I also like it that I dont alot of hippie freaks, bums and airsoft kids wearing my uniform that I had to rate to wear properly. Im not against airsoft but I think if you want to look like us, wear it properly at least!

Sorry this was long but I get passionate about uniforms and its identity.

[scheer]

I'm sorry if any of my opinions bothered you. I totally understand the pride you must have in your uniform, while I don't serve myself (despite wanting to, got binned for having asthma.) I come from a military family and well understand how ingrained the pride and independence of units is, I too am really bothered when I see players wearing unit badges such as jumpwings, flashes etc that mean so much to those who know what's involved in their history and what it takes to get them.

Also I made clear early on that my ideas weren't based on any practical experience with ACU and was more concerned with my doubts about the idea of a universal camo. Anyway just wanted to make my position clear and hope you weren't bothered too much by anything I said.

Good luck over there.

[budgie]

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/581/unicamip5.jpg

I still think my universal pettern would work better. The army should have asked me first :(

[TacoDelRio]

As long as they have a Beer Service System installed in their advanced extreme combat cranial armor protection shell system (AECCAPSS).

[Sgtº]

Resuming.....


Does anyone knows what is going to replace de ACUs??:roll: ,because loobie to replace it,its a fact.....p-)

[Anthony91]

Resuming.....


Does anyone knows what is going to replace de ACUs??:roll: ,because loobie to replace it,its a fact.....p-)

We just got them about a year ago. I don't even think the Army is thinking about a new camoflage design.

[WCCKahuna]

Rata...I don't know how many times I need to say it before people understand...Technology WORKS! And it is GREAT for our servicemen. All I'm saying is let's advance technology, but not forget about the man and his trusty rifle. Do not form a dependancy solely on technology, because even though we have had technological advances all throughout the years, we are still somewhat practical. And that's a good thing!

Azn Marine...nice post!

[_Kommando]

And, they still use a compass and a map anyday instead of GPS. Their dependency on technology is scarce...and that is a good thing!

The Marines also have more friendly kills than any other branch.

[aj-0311]

The Marines also have more friendly kills than any other branch.
Are you just trying to talk trash and get a rise or are you going to support that statement with documentation or sources?

[ed316]

The Marines also have more friendly kills than any other branch.

Links? Don't be a dumbass. Where did you get this info?

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Ahhh, the never ending debate about ACU Vs DCU....well here is some uniforms I propose to replace the ACU....First one is for use in cyber warfare...the second is for use in large objects.....and third is used for snipers inside of a house.

[WCCKahuna]

The Marines also have more friendly kills than any other branch.

I would like to see some valuable evidence to back this up.^




Pathfinder...haha I like it, humor is always a good thing during serious discussions.

[California Joe]

I'm sure someone has pointed this out but doesn't just plain khaki work very well as a universal type camo in that area of the world?

[Macs.]

Field grey and long black coats.

That would be a good choice.

[ed316]

Field grey and long black coats.

That would be a good choice.


and a skull and cross bones on the caps. Herr Macs.

[Ratamacue]

Rata...I don't know how many times I need to say it before people understand...Technology WORKS! And it is GREAT for our servicemen. All I'm saying is let's advance technology, but not forget about the man and his trusty rifle. Do not form a dependancy solely on technology, because even though we have had technological advances all throughout the years, we are still somewhat practical. And that's a good thing!I don't see any dependency being formed. All I see are new tools being introduced to make our soldiers more effective to supplement their existing skills. Last I heard, alot of the advanced portions of Land Warrior and FFW (computer/eyepiece, thermal sights, etc.) are intended mostly to be issued to select persons, like team leaders, squad leaders, officers, etc., as they would be a distraction more than anything else for your typical grunt. The rest of the equipment involved, like angry cow and I said before, is meant primarily to streamline and lighten alot of the systems already used by the infantry.

[WCCKahuna]

I don't see any dependency being formed. All I see are new tools being introduced to make our soldiers more effective to supplement their existing skills. Last I heard, alot of the advanced portions of Land Warrior and FFW (computer/eyepiece, thermal sights, etc.) are intended mostly to be issued to select persons, like team leaders, squad leaders, officers, etc., as they would be a distraction more than anything else for your typical grunt. The rest of the equipment involved, like angry cow and I said before, is meant primarily to streamline and lighten alot of the systems already used by the infantry.

Yes, distractions can occur. I think the system will be great as long as we do not become so dependant on it that we forget about basic fighting skills, tactics, etc. If we can balance the usage of basic and advanced combat skills with the usage of state-of-the-art technology, then we are invincible.

And remember...easier, cost-effective materials aren't always a good thing...(see ACU)

[WCCKahuna]

Also, fielding this equipment to select, highly-trained individuals ONLY is good. Because this type of technology should be used sparingly/only when needed.

[_Kommando]

Links? Don't be a dumbass. Where did you get this info?

I can't remember where I read it. If I find the link I'll post it here.

[LaoSexMachine]

I can't remember where I read it. If I find the link I'll post it here.


Talking out of your ass, airsofter. :bash:

[_Kommando]

Talking out of your ass, airsofter. :bash:


Not really.

[Ratamacue]

Not really.Until you conjure up some evidence, I'm afraid so.

[jagermeister]

were do people come up with this ****.:roll:

[_Kommando]

were do people come up with this ****.:roll:

The internet.

[LaoSexMachine]

The internet.

Put or shut up.

[WCCKahuna]

The internet.

Haha...because the internet is always right! :roll:

[jagermeister]

put a link up or stop pulling random BS out of your @ss

[Azn_US_Marine]

Its all good scheer, as long as you understand why specific units take pride in a symbol that distingushes them from others. It sucks you cant join, it would be cool if there was a cure for asthma because I've seen alot of potental good recruits get DQed at MEPS for it, even if they didnt have an attack for years.

Kommando you must be another airsofter that thinks you actually know about the military just by googling for info. Unless you're in the service yourself shut your fat mouth and let the real troops talk.

But anyways back to topic The ACU's digital pattern is already basically the same as MARPAT, but a very non-tactical color. I wouldnt mind seeing them produce green and desert similar to ours but anything but that bluish grey as the only authorized uniform! The "sand tan" skivvy shirt is basically white, also very bright and non-tactical. Yes Marines wear green skivvy shirts in the desert but some of us like myself wear brown sometimes, the Corps should officially allow brown shirts to be optional in desert operations.

[scheer]

Glad we're cool AZN, didn't want to offend even accidentally. I was raised in a family with several former or serving british paras, so was raised to feel an almost religious awe for the wings and maroon beret, so I perfectly understand just how significant a symbol can be, especially if its unique to your unit. Asthma sucks, got full marks in the fitness tests, then lasted about 30 seconds with the MO.

It seems quite odd to me that assuming it's based on experimentation and science, that ACU seems so vastly different from other digital camo patterns based on the same principles, CADPAT and MARPAT, which are both obviously in the main green or brown. While ACU is mainly grey/blue.

I realise that over long ranges colours tend to dull and that grey is more difficult to pick up for the eye, due to the way we see. But considering that most infantry actions these days that I hear tend to be fought at more close quarters, is making a uniform more suited to long range fire fights and which seems to standout more than more traditional schemes close-up slightly odd?