Counter Sniping Systems for MOUT in Iraq.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

I've been aware of these types of systems for a little while. IMHO, they would seem to be a great choice
for automated fire control of vehicle mounted weapons.

The BBN Counter-Sniper System:
http://www.bbn.com/measurementsys/sniper.html

Viper Counter Sniper System:
http://www.urf.com/madl/eo/viper/Psc06ce3.html

PDCue Counter Sniper System:
http://www.aaicorp.com/defense/em/pdc.htm


U.S. Army Joint Counter Sniper Program:
http://www.specialoperations.com/Specialties/Sniping/Counter_Sniper.htm


METRAVIB Gunshot Detection & Localisation systems
http://www.metravib-pilar.com/produits/index.asp


Detecting Snipers, RAND Corporation:
http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1187/MR1187.appc.pdf


The RAND document was very instructive, pointing out some of the problems and limitations of
counter sniping. But the technology could continue to be developed.


I was thinking one of these systems could be adapted to the Stryker, and tied into the turret
gun system via a fire control computer.

Maybe even a new vehicle, exclusivley for urban environments?


Some of these systems have been under development for a while. Haven't heard very much about
actual miliatry deployments. The French PILAR system was said to have been developed for use in Serbia.

Can anyone confirm its use?

Also some mention of a system that might have been used in connection with the DC area sniper case.

If this technology is reliable and mature, it would seem to be a great way of localizing and eliminating
enemy riflemen. Just what were in need of in Fallujah.

Basically just looking for more information and if anyone has any insight or experience they would be
willing to share.



Very new to the forum and not looking to get targeted. I don't claim to be a military expert, just an engineering
tech with big ideas, and apologize if this topic has been covered elsewhere. Please show me the thread :)

[Seoulstriker]

wait, so these are mobile gun shot localization systems? hmmm. i don't know how well it would work in a warzone, but it is still very interesting nonetheless.


and with the DC sniper, you would need a station where he would hit next in order to know where he is... not sure how well the system would work in that case.


great post, btw. :)

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Acoustic and IR sensors detect observables such as muzzle flash and the sonic boom created by a slug in supersonic flight. Some systems combine both. Like I said, I think a similar system, PILAR, was developed for use in Bosnia.

I think they would work best if you had a pretty good idea where the shots might be coming from. In a MOUT environment, the rooftop and from the sides, I would think.

In the DC sniper case, I don't think a system like that would be as effective. It wouldn't seem to me that you could really locate the acoustic and IR sensors effectively. Or how effective would they be on a low flying plane? I dunno.

THNX for the compliment Seoulstriker. My First original thread :D

[seruriermarshal]

Great news !

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

I was just wondering if anybody knows if they're being used, being developed or just abandoned?

Some of the info was dated mid to early 90's.

I think one system was used for security at the Olympic games in Atlanta.

[Seoulstriker]

this is actually the very first time i have ever heard about this system.

there is some more info here: http://www.aaicorp.com/defense/em/pdc.htm

this is a release by the army:
http://www.aaicorp.com/corporate/press/army_tuav_press_release.html


this was from my DoD Contracts email:


Subject: Contracts, Wednesday Mar. 17, 2004
AAI Corp., Hunt Valley, Md., was awarded on March 12, 2004, an
$11,861,841cost-plus-fixed-fee contract for contractor engineering services for the
Shadow unmanned aerial vehicle system. Work will be performed in Hunt Valley, Md.
(90 percent) and Fort Huachuca, Ariz. (10 percent), and is expected to be completed
by April 30, 2008. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal
year. This was a sole source contract initiated on April 4, 2003. The U.S. Army
Aviation and Missile Command, Redstone Arsenal, Ala., is the contracting activity
(DAAH01-03-C-0074).

hope this helps.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Subject: Contracts, Wednesday Mar. 17, 2004
AAI Corp., Hunt Valley, Md., was awarded on March 12, 2004, an
$11,861,841cost-plus-fixed-fee contract for contractor engineering services for the
Shadow unmanned aerial vehicle system. Work will be performed in Hunt Valley, Md.
(90 percent) and Fort Huachuca, Ariz. (10 percent), and is expected to be completed
by April 30, 2008. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal
year. This was a sole source contract initiated on April 4, 2003. The U.S. Army
Aviation and Missile Command, Redstone Arsenal, Ala., is the contracting activity
(DAAH01-03-C-0074).

Thanks. I was hoping it was still be pursued. I'm assuming the Shadow aerial vehicle mentioned would be the sensor platform. But I also saw that the contract didn't terminate until 2008. Is that the end of production or is that just for a prototype?


I think this technology merits more study. We have the capacity to level a city, but I think it would be better for us if we could concentrate on the trouble makers.

The VIPER system also used and unmanned aerial vehcile.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

My bad. I posted before I read the article ;)

[Seoulstriker]

ooooh, i also didn't read the article before i posted. :oops: i just searched for AAI systems, the producers of the counter sniper system, but apparently they also make aircraft. maybe the aircraft is the sensor platform.

oh well. :)