PDA

View Full Version : Marines to get helmet pads



drgamtd
10-13-2006, 05:40 PM
Marines to get helmet pads
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/homepage/article_1308516.php

http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/news/2006/10/11helmets1_md.jpg

Marines to get helmet pads

Pendleton Marine's grandfather tried for years to convince the Corps of benefits.

By VIK JOLLY
The Orange County Register

Responding to new studies – and a concerted effort by family members – the U.S. Marine Corps has reversed its policy and ordered protective inserts for its standard-issue combat helmets.

By year's end, the Corps will be fielding 139,000 pad kits, which it now believes offer better head protection from bomb blasts, and new helmets will come with the pads built in.

Test results, following a congressional hearing in June, showed that the padded helmets give superior protection from blunt-force trauma, a Marine spokesman said Tuesday. Earlier, the Corps had argued that there was no scientific evidence.
"The Marine Corps made (the policy) decision based on that," said Capt. Jeff Landis, a public affairs officer at Marine Corps Systems Command in Quantico, Va. "That's what we really needed to make the best decision for the welfare and safety of our troops."

The Corps had previously insisted that the pads actually reduced protection from bullets. A test now showed little difference in protection from bullets, Landis said.
The Iraq war is yielding a higher percentage of brain injuries than any previous U.S. conflict, according to researchers. While some families took comfort in buying pads themselves – and manufacturers pushed the product in publications aimed at military audiences – the Marine Corps never endorsed them for its latest helmets.
Bob Meaders, a retired Navy doctor and grandfather of a Camp Pendleton Marine, launched Operation Helmet in 2004, aiming to get liner kits sent to his grandson, Justin, and other Marines.

To date, the group has shipped more than 27,600 helmet inserts – at $100 each – to Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"When you are finished, it's a great feeling," said Meaders, 72, in a telephone interview from Glen Rose, Texas, about 70 miles southwest of Dallas. "That was a feeling of relief, knowing that the Marines on the front lines will have the best protection available."

The organization's biggest contributor, with a donation totaling $300,000, was singer Cher, who sat behind Meaders at the June congressional hearing at which legislators urged the Corps to supply the pads.

Hundreds of troops and Marines families wrote to Operation Helmet seeking the pads, and Meaders persistently wrote the Marine Corps arguing that data was available to show the pads were better.

He was chastised by some in the chain of command and was even told that e-mails would be blocked, he said. On Thursday, the Marine spokesman thanked him for his input.

"What it did was made all of the services take a harder look at protection and our decisions based on testing and results," Landis said. "They in essence allowed us to look a little deeper and order more tests and prove which was the better, more effective protection."

The U.S. Army and the Marines once used similar helmets. Then the Army issued the Army Combat Helmet, costing $306 each and manufactured with the pads already incorporated for Iraq-bound soldiers.The Marines also issued new helmets but without pads.

In August, the Marines allowed optional use of pads. Then, last week, the Corps made the pad-suspension system the only one authorized for use with the standard helmet.

The authorization couldn't have come sooner for some Marine families.
"Had they listened in the first place and been more open-minded about it and done their testing a couple of years ago, who's to say how many lives we could have saved and how many could have been less severely injured with added protection," said Shannan Limon, formerly of San Clemente. Operation Helmet helped her husband, Philip, get a pad insert before he was deployed to Iraq in January from the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center in Twentynine Palms.
Landis said the studies only recently became available.

"Anytime you're going to have a war, you're going to have … studies to better protect (troops), and the technology and the intelligence is getting that much better," he said.

http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/news/2006/10/11helmets_em.gif

More about the helmet
Recently completed government laboratory testing of six commercially available pad suspension systems for the Marine Corps combat helmet demonstrated their exceptional performance against non-ballistic blunt force impacts. While these tests were underway, the Marine Expeditionary Forces, in coordination with Marine Corps Systems Command, procured 39,000 sets of padded helmet suspension systems to meet immediate operational needs to I and II Marine Expeditionary Force. MARCORSYSCOM has purchased an additional 100,000 sets of pad suspension systems. 50,000 have already been delivered to the Consolidated Issue Facilities (CIFs) and the Critical Asset Rapid Distribution Facility. The remainder will be delivered by December.
The Marine Corps participated in the Congressionally directed, independent, non-ballistic tests through the Department of Defense. Separate Marine Corps tests conducted by the University of Virginia showed no significant difference in ballistic backface trauma between the sling suspension system and the pad suspension system. However, the pad system did demonstrate greater non-ballistic blunt impact protection, according to tests conducted by the U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory.

Tests were completed 31 August by the University of Virginia and 6 September by the U.S. Army Research Laboratory. The UVA “Ballistic Behind Armor Blunt Trauma” study assessed the risk of ballistic induced backface trauma for the Marine Corps helmet sling and pad suspension systems. The study found no significant difference in ballistic backface trauma between the systems. The USAARL study compared the effectiveness of the suspensions systems to non-ballistic blunt trauma. They tested six commercially available pad systems along with the sling system. Data received from early results showed greater non-ballistic blunt impact protection for the pad system. The official USAARL results will be made available later this month.

In light of these positive results, the Marine Corps is changing suspension systems for the combat helmet from the sling suspension system to the pad suspension system. Only pad systems purchased by the CIF or via the official supply system are authorized for use with the lightweight helmet. Unauthorized pad systems are being immediately replaced with approved systems due to lower performance in tests.

The Marine Corps’ decision to buy 89,000 sets of combat helmet suspension pads for immediate fielding and an additional 50,000 order is a direct result of previous tests for ballistic and non-ballistic blunt trauma. Testing started with the Univ. of Virginia in March 2006. Marine Corps Systems Command testified to the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Tactical Air and Land Forces in June 2006 that a decision would be made after the results of this test. Congress asked DoD to conduct additional testing, and it was after the results of both sets of tests that the Marine Corps made the decision.

We appreciate the effort of Operation Helmet and their true concern for Marines in combat. The Marine Corps is committed to providing the best possible protective equipment to the warfighter in combat, and this includes providing the best helmet protection possible. When the Marine Corps became aware of a possible improved suspension system thanks to individual Marines, the House Committee on Armed Services including Chairman Curt Weldon, and Operation-Helmet.org, the Marine Corps Systems Command immediately heightened its investigation of combat helmet suspension systems. As such, the Marine Corps was more than happy to participate in the Congressionally directed, independent, ballistic and non-ballistic tests.

The Corps authorized Marines to use the padded suspension system in MARADMIN 362/06 (Leightweight Helmet Suspension System and Implementation Guidance) on Aug. 1, 2006 and defined the requirement and policy change for Marines to have the padded suspension system in MARADMIN 480/06 (Pad Suspension System in theLightweight Helmet) Oct. 5, 2006.
Source: Marine Corps spokesman, Capt. Jeffrey A. Landis

ed316
10-13-2006, 05:51 PM
Nice to hear it.

Firefly26
10-13-2006, 07:15 PM
And the Army has been doing this for at least a year and a half already, but they can have the credit.

Mountain Man
10-13-2006, 09:51 PM
Hey a famous person who got something good acomplishedn finally. Yeah Cher! woot

Seriously though good to see our guys are getting what they need.

BadKarma26
10-13-2006, 11:34 PM
And the Army has been doing this for at least a year and a half already, but they can have the credit.


longer than that. BLSS kits have been issued to a lot of Army units since like the late 90s


Now weve got the ACH which is comfortable as **** and much lighter than the old ones the Marines still have

Bohemoth
10-14-2006, 11:05 AM
So, what exactly will be changed?
Just the web-suspension will be replaced by cushion pads, right?

Everything else: the LWH and 4-point Chin-Strap Suspension System are not affected?

Thx

SiFiOn
10-14-2006, 03:10 PM
So, what exactly will be changed?
Just the web-suspension will be replaced by cushion pads, right?

Everything else: the LWH and 4-point Chin-Strap Suspension System are not affected?

Thx

In addition to this; does anyone has more detailed pics of this system?

WCCKahuna
10-16-2006, 10:43 PM
longer than that. BLSS kits have been issued to a lot of Army units since like the late 90s


Now weve got the ACH which is comfortable as **** and much lighter than the old ones the Marines still have

Comfortable? Agreed. Lighter? Not that much. Coverage? Hardly any...the ACH has 8% less coverage over PASGT and LWH/MCCH. And the Marines are not using the "old ones" anymore. They have a helmet called the LWH...LIGHTWEIGHT helmet.

aj-0311
10-17-2006, 05:26 AM
At least the Marines are fixing the problem. I only hope that the Army, given time, will fix the ACU.

SiFiOn
10-17-2006, 03:28 PM
OK, no one with detailed pics I guess. But where are they selling this stuff? I suppose they don't sell it in the PX?

Digital Marine
10-17-2006, 05:42 PM
Well, i found this:

http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productID=7903&TabID=1&CatID=9

But that sure as heck isn't 40$

http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productid=10852&TabID=1&CatID=9


doesn't seem to be the same..

SiFiOn
10-17-2006, 05:49 PM
That's more like 2-4 times $40,-. I wonder if this will fit in the standard issued Dutch helmet, but I think I'll pass when I have to pay for almost a 2nd helmet (typical Dutch).

oldsoak
10-17-2006, 06:33 PM
Still dont get the "difference" between US Marine and Army procurement. Different camo patterns, helmets , rifles and all that jazz. Surely the idea is to get the best protection, equipment etc for the grunt putting his b*lls on the line ?

Cpl Steiner
10-17-2006, 06:36 PM
I wonder if our British boys in the Helmand province will be recieving something similar?

(I will not be holding my breath.:bash:)

Twombly
10-17-2006, 07:00 PM
For what is this funny thing, when most of marines except the Recon units are equipped with LWH?... :roll:

oldsoak
10-17-2006, 07:10 PM
I wonder if our British boys in the Helmand province will be recieving something similar?

(I will not be holding my breath.:bash:)

The British three point suspension method for helmets was actually offered as a retrofit for PASGT helmets at one point. Its regarded as one of the more comfortable helmets - although I stuck a bit of kip mat padding in the top of mine. The new Mk6 helmet ( same as the old one but with new materials ) is supposed to be in the process of being issued. It ups protection quite a bit, allegedly. Paras wont get it as they have a para helmet.

WCCKahuna
10-30-2006, 10:26 AM
For what is this funny thing, when most of marines except the Recon units are equipped with LWH?... :roll:

Twombly, it's Marines...capitalized. Sorry I couldn't resist. p-)

JVeld
10-30-2006, 10:58 AM
Good news...hopefuly soon it'll be the whole military not just the Marines !

dave81
10-30-2006, 12:49 PM
http://www.oregonaero.com/p81_2001.html

Warfighter
10-30-2006, 06:46 PM
Comfortable? Agreed. Lighter? Not that much. Coverage? Hardly any...the ACH has 8% less coverage over PASGT and LWH/MCCH. And the Marines are not using the "old ones" anymore. They have a helmet called the LWH...LIGHTWEIGHT helmet.


Shrapnel in the dome is much more uncomfortable than a heavy helmet.

WCCKahuna
10-30-2006, 07:12 PM
Shrapnel in the dome is much more uncomfortable than a heavy helmet.

And what is that supposed to mean? The Lighweight helmet the Marines wear is actually HEAVIER than the Army's AC Helmet. And the Marines' helmet has a lot more coverage/defense than the ACH the Army wears. So,
(1) Shrapnel would be more likely to get into the Army's ACH because it has 8% less coverage...
and
(2) The Army's helmet is also lighter than the Marines' helmet. So what's your point?

BadKarma26
10-30-2006, 07:18 PM
The ACH offers better protection because of new production techniques and newer kevlar


you might not think weight is an issue until youve got NODs on your head (most marines wont have those though lol)

WCCKahuna
10-30-2006, 07:23 PM
And your telling me the LWH doesn't have new production techniques and KEVLAR? Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the ACH. But, there is such a thing as solid facts vs. opinion...I'm simply laying down the facts.

BadKarma26
10-30-2006, 07:47 PM
And your telling me the LWH doesn't have new production techniques and KEVLAR? Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the ACH. But, there is such a thing as solid facts vs. opinion...I'm simply laying down the facts.

As I understand it the article is about just a PASGT with new pads...some of those helmets are 20+ years old

WCCKahuna
10-30-2006, 08:19 PM
No the article is about the evolution of Marine helmets. It's about PASGT and MCCH (LWH).

http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/news/2006/10/11helmets_em.gif

WCCKahuna
10-30-2006, 08:22 PM
As you can see, the new Marine Corps helmet has undergone new production techniques and has newer KEVLAR. Therefore, my statement before was valid.

Azn_US_Marine
10-31-2006, 04:09 AM
You two calm down, no need to piss at each other over helmets. Read this article http://www.rdecom.army.mil/rdemagazine/200309/itf_marines_lw_helmet.html The LWH weighs the same as a ACH/MICH but with the same coverage of the PASGT. We still call them Kevlars but the newer materials arent Kevlar. The helmet is good to go but I hope I recieve the pads, I still the donut foam for comfort.

Twombly
10-31-2006, 06:36 PM
No the article is about the evolution of Marine helmets. It's about PASGT and MCCH (LWH).

http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/news/2006/10/11helmets_em.gif
That helmet on the right isn't LWH, so it's not about LWH p-)

WCCKahuna
11-01-2006, 01:47 AM
Actually it is...

Lightweight Helmet is the U.S. Marine Corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps) replacement for the PASGT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_Armor_System_for_Ground_Troops) helmet. It is similar in shape to the the PASGT but is 8 ounces lighter and stronger. Though heavier than the Army's Advanced Combat Helmet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MICH_TC-2000_Combat_Helmet), its larger size also offers more protection. Featuring a V-neck strap and improved fit, it is much more comfortable than the PASGT. It entered service in late 2004 and will completely replace the PASGT by 2009.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_Helmet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_Helmet)"

The MCCH as depicted in the picture on the right...is the same thing as the LWH. The LWH is the MCCH.

williamoforange
11-01-2006, 01:53 AM
Finally! 123

Twombly
11-02-2006, 06:10 PM
The MCCH as depicted in the picture on the right...is the same thing as the LWH. The LWH is the MCCH.
Ok, it will probably be a LWH with another suspension system...
Here's a picture of LWH compared with PASGT:
http://www.sweb.cz/twombly/Weapons/100_3407.jpg

WCCKahuna
11-05-2006, 01:53 AM
Right...and LWH is getting the new pads.