Rheinmettall-Borsig MG 131

[Jabroni]

Nothing new boyz but thought it would be cool to bring back on the frontline, Could be a substitute for M2HBs.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8906/mg131qa3.jpg
Takes 13mm Rounds, Just if we could mount it on Hummers etc.

[nagant_m44]

Nothing new boyz but thought it would be cool to bring back on the frontline, Could be a substitute for M2HBs.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8906/mg131qa3.jpg
Takes 13mm Rounds, Just if we could mount it on Hummers etc.

why use this gun? Just go all the way and mount a single 2cm Flak on a hummerp-)

[Hydro]

How would it be more effective than the M2HB? 12.7 versus 13mm, that .3mm must make a hell of a difference.

[dobrodan]

Nothing new boyz but thought it would be cool to bring back on the frontline, Could be a substitute for M2HBs.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8906/mg131qa3.jpg
Takes 13mm Rounds, Just if we could mount it on Hummers etc.

If you want bigger guns, you have this: http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg26-e.htm

If you want lighter guns, you have this:http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg39-e.htm

If you want a bit lighter, cheaper and readily available gun, you have this:http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg24-e.htm, which can actually be fired from a bipod...

[kamarian]

yeah, i can see the us military going out and buying a heap of these. I dont see any other machine gun that has been around for as long as the .50cal.

[Jippo]

How would it be more effective than the M2HB? 12.7 versus 13mm, that .3mm must make a hell of a difference.

Actually it has quite significantly less punch than .50bmg.



-jippo

[gafkiwi]

I was told by the weapons curator at our army museum that Mr Browning got the basic idea or design for the .50 BMG from a 13mm rd that the Germans used in an anti tank rifle during WW1.
Apparently he liked the idea, ballistics and general design of the larger calibert rd. He redesigned it to suit a belt fed machine gun and finally adjusted it from metric to imperial (explains similarity in size)then used it in his soon to be famous HMG.
I'm not saying his account is totally true or not but he had nothing to gain by spinning some BS but it sounds pretty good to me. If its true it maybe from a completely different designed 13mm rd, someone else maybe able to shed some light on the story.
I've got a pic of the AT rifle taken at the army mueseum somewhere around here, I'll see if I can dig it up.

[St Fubar]

What ever happened to the ASP-30?

[Jabroni]

Actually it has quite significantly less punch than .50bmg.



-jippo

Ok then, Re Barrel it to .50Cal then:)

[wiking]

Rheinmetall MG3, that's all i'll say. 1200 rounds per minute, 7.62x51 NATO (.308 for you savage yanks with your weird measurements)

[dobrodan]

Rheinmetall MG3, that's all i'll say. 1200 rounds per minute, 7.62x51 NATO (.308 for you savage yanks with your weird measurements)

ehhh... MG-3? Why? It can not compete with a .50cal MG...

.308 is NOT 7.62x51 NATO... There are some minor differences...

[St Fubar]

.308 is NOT 7.62x51 NATO... There are some minor differences...
Yes, between 7.62x51 NATO and .308 Winchester, but even the 7.62x51 NATO is technically a .308.

[Hydro]

MG3 rate of fire, and .50 calibre power? FN's .50 M3M is the way forward.

[wiking]

MG3 rate of fire, and .50 calibre power? FN's .50 M3M is the way forward.

being at the receiving end of that wouldn't be nice :-(

As to why 7.62 instead of .50. a 50 might be big, bad and mean, but with the added rounds on target with a higher fire rate it shouldn't make much of a diffrence, might even be an improvment.

And an MG3 going at it would chip away at any concrete wall or even armor pretty damned fast, if you want to bring up penetration off the .50 as wy it's better.

But then again, FN M3M looks like a sweet weapon system.

[Quietscheentchen]

isn't this the mg that was used in "the machine gunners", this tv-story where some english kids found a shot-down german plane with a still operable aa-mg during ww 2? i watched it maybe 12, 13 years ago...

[dobrodan]

being at the receiving end of that wouldn't be nice :-(

As to why 7.62 instead of .50. a 50 might be big, bad and mean, but with the added rounds on target with a higher fire rate it shouldn't make much of a diffrence, might even be an improvment.

And an MG3 going at it would chip away at any concrete wall or even armor pretty damned fast, if you want to bring up penetration off the .50 as wy it's better.

But then again, FN M3M looks like a sweet weapon system.

Between 7.62 ball ammo and .50 MP (Raufoss) there is a sea of difference!

An increased rate of fire is not needed.

IMO, the MG-3 has a too high ROF to be practical. It just burns more ammo, and degrades accuracy.

[Hydro]

isn't this the mg that was used in "the machine gunners", this tv-story where some english kids found a shot-down german plane with a still operable aa-mg during ww 2? i watched it maybe 12, 13 years ago...



That was an MG15.


The Machine Gunners was a great book, I never saw the TV adaptation.

[ClydeFrog]

Actually it has quite significantly less punch than .50bmg.



-jippo

It also has a significantly higher ROF. Afterall it's an AA/aircraft gun... not a multi purpose gun like the M2HB... and it's also dead since 1945.

[wiking]

Between 7.62 ball ammo and .50 MP (Raufoss) there is a sea of difference!

An increased rate of fire is not needed.

IMO, the MG-3 has a too high ROF to be practical. It just burns more ammo, and degrades accuracy.

well, you've got a point on the Raufoss MP ammo.

[Quietscheentchen]

That was an MG15.


The Machine Gunners was a great book, I never saw the TV adaptation.

ah yes, thanks, this one looks more like it...btw. you should watch it. i first watched it in the later 80s and i found it amazing, perhaps because i was in the same mood like these kids, first damn exited by all the adventurous stuff and later on seeing how hard and bitter a war can be...i always tried to whistle the river-kwai-march melody they used at the beginning of each episode. i just wonder why they don't show such interesting stories on tv for the kids instead of all the sxit they offer currently on all channels...

[kamarian]

I was told by the weapons curator at our army museum that Mr Browning got the basic idea or design for the .50 BMG from a 13mm rd that the Germans used in an anti tank rifle during WW1.
Apparently he liked the idea, ballistics and general design of the larger calibert rd. He redesigned it to suit a belt fed machine gun and finally adjusted it from metric to imperial (explains similarity in size)then used it in his soon to be famous HMG.
I'm not saying his account is totally true or not but he had nothing to gain by spinning some BS but it sounds pretty good to me. If its true it maybe from a completely different designed 13mm rd, someone else maybe able to shed some light on the story.
I've got a pic of the AT rifle taken at the army mueseum somewhere around here, I'll see if I can dig it up.

From what i know, Browning just upsized the measurements from the .30-06 to make the .50 cal. It wastnt really based on the 13mm rnd, but that would have influenced his design

[St Fubar]

From what i know, Browning just upsized the measurements from the .30-06 to make the .50 cal. It wastnt really based on the 13mm rnd, but that would have influenced his design
That's easy to check by comparing the bullet diameter to the case length, comparing the two should let us know if they have even roughly the same shape. .30-06's diameter-to-length ratio: 8.27, .50 Browning's: 7.8. If it were just an upsized .30-06, it would be 12.7x105, not 12.7x99. It's about as accurate as calling the 5.56x45 a downsized .30-06. You could compare other dimensions as well, but this is enough to see that it isn't just an upscaled version.

[dobrodan]

That's easy to check by comparing the bullet diameter to the case length, comparing the two should let us know if they have even roughly the same shape. .30-06's diameter-to-length ratio: 8.27, .50 Browning's: 7.8. If it were just an upsized .30-06, it would be 12.7x105, not 12.7x99. It's about as accurate as calling the 5.56x45 a downsized .30-06. You could compare other dimensions as well, but this is enough to see that it isn't just an upscaled version.

Remember that the actual diameter of 30-06 is 7.82mm, and then you will get a ratio close to 8.05... Still no conclusion, but I wouldn´t rule out the possibility...

[St Fubar]

Remember that the actual diameter of 30-06 is 7.82mm, and then you will get a ratio close to 8.05... Still no conclusion, but I wouldn´t rule out the possibility...
And the fifty has an actual bullet diameter of .510, making the ratio 7.64. I'd say it's pretty conclusive. Or do I have to start comparing the other eleventy-seven specified dimensions to convince you that the .50 is not simply an upscaled .30-06? Even now it's easy to see that it's much too short, even the Russian 12.7x107 is closer.

[kamarian]

Froma few sources the .50cal cartridge was designed by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, and wasn't refined until Winchester had seen and studied the German 13mm round and refined it to fire the .50cal bullet.

[nagant_m44]

the mg131 can fire HEI-T round. Do .50 HEI-T rounds exist?

[Hydro]

There's Raufoss MP ammunition, which combines high explosive, armour piercing and incendiary capabilities. You can get saboted SLAP rounds and all sorts. .50 is a very versatile calibre.