U.S. Threatened with Iraq War Crimes Trial

[AVZ]

U.S. Threatened with Iraq War Crimes Trial

Some Iraqis say the U.S. military committed war crimes, including the bombing of a Baghdad market.



Iraqi civilians are reportedly intending to bring charges in Belgium against U.S. General Tommy Franks for war crimes, possibly further straining ties with Washington after Brussels’ opposition to the war in Iraq.




Ten Iraqi civilians are planning to press war crimes charges against U.S. General Tommy Franks, the commander of the U.S.-led war in Iraq, the American newspaper the Washington Times reported.



The Iraqis, allegedly eyewitnesses and victims of U.S. atrocities, hold coalition forces responsible for numerous crimes, including failing to prevent looting, firing on an ambulance, shooting and injuring Iraqi civilians, causing the deaths of scores of people by bombing a Baghdad marketplace and killing at least ten passengers driving in a civilian bus near the town of Hillah.



According to the report, Brussels-based human rights lawyer Jan Fermon, who intends to represent the Iraqis, said the complaint against Franks and other U.S. military officials would be filed in a Belgian court in about two weeks.



"U.S. military officials had the authority but did nothing to stop these war crimes from occurring," Fermon told the newspaper. "A military commander is responsible for war crimes even if he did not commit or order them, but also if he fails to take all the necessary steps to prevent the atrocities from happening."



Poor relations



The incident could further worsen relations between Washington and Brussels, which vehemently opposed U.S.-led military action against Iraq. Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt has also annoyed U.S. officials by pushing European defense proposal seen as competing with NATO.



Belgium's 1993 law of universal jurisdiction allows its courts to prosecute people accused of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes regardless of where the crime occurred or whether the suspects or victims were Belgian.



Under widespread international pressure, the law was changed in April to give judges greater scope to reject complaints. Now the senior prosecutor may decide that cases should be referred to the country directly concerned if there is no tangible Belgian link, rather than being examined in a Belgian court.



United States fears abuse



The United States on Monday welcomed the recent changes to the law, but said Belgium needed to make sure its legal system was not abused.



"We believe the Belgian government needs to be diligent in taking steps to prevent abuse of the legal system for political ends," U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher told journalists. "As to this specific case, we believe it does show the danger of a judicial system that's open to politically motivated charges."



U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell recently warned that Belgium was putting its international reputation at stake because of the law. Powell in March was named in a lawsuit filed by the families of Iraqi victims of a U.S. attack on a shelter that killed 400 people during the 1991 Gulf War.



Former U.S. President George Bush senior, and other members of his administration, including then defense secretary and now Vice President **** Cheney, were also held responsible in the suit.



Belgium’s law was most famously used to initiate legal action against Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for his alleged role in the massacre of up to 2,000 people carried by an Israeli-backed Christian militia in 1982 in the Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps in Lebanon. Relations between Israel and Belgium have been strained since the complaint was filed.



Only one case has actually been tried under the Belgian law. Four Rwandans were found guilty of involvement in the 1994 genocide in the African country and were sentenced to up to 15 years in prison in June 2001.






http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1430_A_854497_1_A,00.html

[MaDuce]

Yet they wouldnt even conider HAMAS leaders and such.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Seems fair enough, commit acts of terrorism and war crimes you should pay the price though I doubt the US would let any of its men face a trail. As for HAMAS Israel does a reasonable job of punishing HAMAS leaders.

[scm77]

What a joke. :roll:

[BlackRain]

The USA does not belong to jurisdiction of this Kangaroo Court. It is a bastion of no nothings who allow harrassment claims against legitimate world leaders.

It is just a rehash of this: (Note: Saddam has never been brought to this court despite his history of GENOCIDE. Tells you were this courts is politically aligned.)


Belgium's highest court has thrown out war crimes cases brought against former US president George Bush and current Secretary of State Colin Powell.

The cases were brought under Belgium's universal jurisdiction law, which once allowed prosecutions of foreigners.

But changes to the law made it almost inevitable that the cases against Mr Bush, Mr Powell and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, would fail.

The cases against Mr Bush senior and Mr Powell related to the 1991 Gulf War.


Seven Iraqi victims of that conflict alleged that the two men had committed war crimes.


Mr Sharon was charged with involvement in the massacre of Palestinians in refugee camps in Lebanon in 1982.

But it had always seemed likely that the lawsuits would fail, since Belgium's universal jurisdiction law - brought in 10 years ago - has recently undergone drastic changes.

Originally, the law allowed Belgian courts to rule on crimes against humanity regardless of the nationality of the perpetrator or where the alleged offences took place.

It was used successfully once, in the prosecution of four Rwandans involved in the 1994 genocide.

But the law was also controversial, with countries like the United States arguing that it simply provided an opportunity for campaigners to bring politically motivated cases.

The Belgian Government ended up agreeing with that judgement.

In April this year, the law was changed, and then in July it was modified further.

It now only applies if the victim or suspect is a Belgian citizen or long-term resident at the time of the alleged crime.

It also guarantees diplomatic immunity for world leaders and other government officials visiting Belgium.

The days when Brussels was the place for controversial international lawsuits seem to be over.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Seems fair enough, commit acts of terrorism and war crimes you should pay the price though I doubt the US would let any of its men face a trail. As for HAMAS Israel does a reasonable job of punishing HAMAS leaders.


Is that how they do things in Scotland? Declare you guilty first then have the trial. You stated that the USA committed acts of terrorism and war crimes. Back it up with facts or withdraw your statement.

It's time that you anti-Americans were called on your BS.
Have another look at my post BlackRain point to the part where I say that the "USA has committed acts of terrorism and war crimes" highlight it if you can. I stated that if you commit such acts you should pay the price and I stand by this statement including the part where I doubt the US would let any of its men stand trial. As for being anti-American point to one of my posts that will back this accusation up. BlackRain, look before you leap.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Seems fair enough, commit acts of terrorism and war crimes you should pay the price though I doubt the US would let any of its men face a trail. As for HAMAS Israel does a reasonable job of punishing HAMAS leaders.


Is that how they do things in Scotland? Declare you guilty first then have the trial. You stated that the USA committed acts of terrorism and war crimes. Back it up with facts or withdraw your statement.

It's time that you anti-Americans were called on your BS.
Have another look at my post BlackRain point to the part where I say that the "USA has committed acts of terrorism and war crimes" highlight it if you can. I stated that if you commit such acts you should pay the price and I stand by this statement including the part where I doubt the US would let any of its men stand trial. As for being anti-American point to one of my posts that will back this accusation up. BlackRain, look before you leap.

Still waiting. :|

[Romulus]

Some Iraqis say the U.S. military committed war crimes, including the bombing of a Baghdad market.

Good luck with all that. :roll: YAWN.........

[SeanAshi]

Belgium...bunch of ****ing wankers
Some Iraqis say the U.S. military committed war crimes, including the bombing of a Baghdad market. Iraqi rebels were responsible for that one.

[Truthsayer]

Belgium...bunch of f*** wankers

Nice.

So you are...Anti-Belgium then?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

The USA does not belong to jurisdiction of this Kangaroo Court. It is a bastion of no nothings who allow harrassment claims against legitimate world leaders.


So please inform us were you do belong then? If there claims are legit then let the courts decide it, instead everyone instantly shoots it down and registers it as "bull****". Do you think its impossible and these events didnt happen?


Belgium...bunch of f*** wankers

A bunch of wankers because they are neutral to the situation? So what exactly is wrong with that? Your a fawking idiot kid

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Belgium...bunch of f*** wankers
Not helping are we, ease up on the hate, if Iraqi civilians want to take the US or coalition personnel to court fine with me, we took Bosian war criminals to the court without much of a fuss. Any act that can be defined as a war crime should be investigated at least, it does not matter who committed it whether it be Brits, Iraqis or Americans seems fair enough to me.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Kinda funny when you get response's like this



Some Iraqis say the U.S. military committed war crimes, including the bombing of a Baghdad market.
Iraqi rebels were responsible for that one.

Wow SeanAshi, I assume you give this from first hand experience? No? You got so much intel you should work for the whitehouse my friend ;)

[Merik]

No one knows what happened so why is everyone accusing the US of commiting such things? Dont jump to conclusions. And as far as the "world court" goes and Belgium's jurisdiction, the US does not fall under it so they cant prosecute Franks.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

No one knows what happened so why is everyone accusing the US of commiting such things? Dont jump to conclusions. And as far as the "world court" goes and Belgium's jurisdiction, the US does not fall under it so they cant prosecute Franks.
Hell I aint jumping to conclusions but if proof can be found that a war crime has been committed by anyone I say take it further if possible.

[usa320]

The Iraqis, allegedly eyewitnesses and victims of U.S. atrocities, hold coalition forces responsible for numerous crimes, including failing to prevent looting, firing on an ambulance, shooting and injuring Iraqi civilians, causing the deaths of scores of people by bombing a Baghdad marketplace and killing at least ten passengers driving in a civilian bus near the town of Hillah.



including failing to prevent looting

rofl

That would be like arresting a police officer because someone robbed your house. Charge the looters. DUH!


firing on an ambulance

This occured on the road to bagdad last april. The ambulance drove between US vehicles on the highway and Fedayeen Technicals along the side of the road. It was reported the ambulance may have been used to transport arms.




causing the deaths of scores of people by bombing a Baghdad marketplace

We didnt even do that. Saddam blew off a car bomb to try and raise anti-American opinion.


least ten passengers driving in a civilian bus near the town of Hillah.


What they forgot to mention is how the bus failed to yield to the sign that read "STOP OR FORCE WILL BE USED- COALITION CHECKPOINT", shouts from American soldiers, gestures and finally warning shots. I would have blown the van up to.

What a bunch of Jackasses. The world court loses much credibility for even accepting this case. The world court already lacks credibility. Look at Milosivic. 4 or 5 years after the war he is still living a fairly care free life. If you ask me we should have said **** the hague and just bombed the bastard. Thankfully we learned our lesson and thats why we are keeping Saddam in our own Custody.

[Truthsayer]

No-one (sofar, helex, stay out! ;) ) is assuming anything about US 'guilt'. Most likely it's nothing.

I do however react when people right away start to ridicule the one global court we have and start calling belgians names for hosting it.

It's plain retarded.

[Skaman]

I don’t doubt the US has committed wartime atrocities. The US military has been known to commit war crimes in nearly every foreign conflict they are involved in. Nothing new....

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

The Iraqis, allegedly eyewitnesses and victims of U.S. atrocities, hold coalition forces responsible for numerous crimes, including failing to prevent looting, firing on an ambulance, shooting and injuring Iraqi civilians, causing the deaths of scores of people by bombing a Baghdad marketplace and killing at least ten passengers driving in a civilian bus near the town of Hillah.



including failing to prevent looting

rofl

That would be like arresting a police officer because someone robbed your house. Charge the looters. DUH!


firing on an ambulance

This occured on the road to bagdad last april. The ambulance drove between US vehicles on the highway and Fedayeen Technicals along the side of the road. It was reported the ambulance may have been used to transport arms.




causing the deaths of scores of people by bombing a Baghdad marketplace

We didnt even do that. Saddam blew off a car bomb to try and raise anti-American opinion.


least ten passengers driving in a civilian bus near the town of Hillah.


What they forgot to mention is how the bus failed to yield to the sign that read "STOP OR FORCE WILL BE USED- COALITION CHECKPOINT", shouts from American soldiers, gestures and finally warning shots. I would have blown the van up to.

What a bunch of Jackasses. The world court loses much credibility for even accepting this case. The world court already lacks credibility. Look at Milosivic. 4 or 5 years after the war he is still living a fairly care free life. If you ask me we should have said f*** the hague and just bombed the bastard. Thankfully we learned our lesson and thats why we are keeping Saddam in our own Custody.

Well looks like we have the judge jury and executioner in one package here :roll:

[usa320]

well if the morons in belgium read the god damn newspaper (read: a newspaper that was centrist and not loaded withbull****) they would know that the iraqis are lying.

[Truthsayer]

well if the morons in belgium read the god damn newspaper (read: a newspaper that was centrist and not loaded withbull****) they would know that the iraqis are lying.

Lacking education about the juridicial system are we?

The quilt isn't decided in newspapers, it's decided in the courtroom.

[Ratamacue]

I don’t doubt the US has committed wartime atrocities. The US military has been known to commit war crimes in nearly every foreign conflict they are involved in. Nothing new....

Yup, only the Americans. Damn, we're so evil. Europeans would never do something so appalling.

[Truthsayer]

I don’t doubt the US has committed wartime atrocities. The US military has been known to commit war crimes in nearly every foreign conflict they are involved in. Nothing new....

Yup, only the Americans. Damn, we're so evil. Europeans would never do something so appalling.

Ducimus is Canadian. Don't blame us Euro-commies for his statements.

Kosovo, WW1, WW2 and so on also contradicts any claims that we are holy here.

[Ratamacue]

I don’t doubt the US has committed wartime atrocities. The US military has been known to commit war crimes in nearly every foreign conflict they are involved in. Nothing new....

Yup, only the Americans. Damn, we're so evil. Europeans would never do something so appalling.

Ducimus is Canadian. Don't blame us Euro-commies for his statements.

Kosovo, WW1, WW2 and so on also contradicts any claims that we are holy here.

I know he's Canadian. But the fact is, he would never make such a statement about the UK, France, etc. Don't think my comment is derogatory towards Europeans, people from just about every country in the world (including the US) have been responsible for war crimes at some point in history. Ducimus just seems to think that the US is an evil empire bent on simply killing people.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

well if the morons in belgium read the god damn newspaper (read: a newspaper that was centrist and not loaded withbull****) they would know that the iraqis are lying.

Well before you dive into the newspaper there usa320, time for a lil spell checking first ;)

Rat I see your point, but you must remeber this is a thread thats about the US, not UK or France or Canada and definatly not the Belgians were the trail will be held.

[Ratamacue]

well if the morons in belgium read the god damn newspaper (read: a newspaper that was centrist and not loaded withbull****) they would know that the iraqis are lying.

Well before you dive into the newspaper there usa320, time for a lil spell checking first ;)

Rat I see your point, but you must remeber this is a thread thats about the US, not UK or France or Canada and definatly not the Belgians were the trail will be held.

Once again, I don't doubt that some GI's have committed some war crimes. But do you think that anyone would tolerate that in the US military if it was without reason or avoidable? Things like accidentally dropping bombs on markets happen in war. It's like trying to bring bomber pilots from World War II up on war crime charges because some of his bombs hit civilian targets even though the objective was a military base.

[Skaman]

Ducimus just seems to think that the US is an evil empire bent on simply killing people.

:cantbeli:

[Skaman]

Ducimus just seems to think that the US is an evil empire bent on simply killing people.

Wow, good work with your divine investigative skills. That must have been EXACTLY what I was thinking.


:cantbeli:

[Ratamacue]

Ducimus just seems to think that the US is an evil empire bent on simply killing people.

:cantbeli:

Sorry, that assumed too much. We're the evil empire bent on dominating the world through McDonald's and Walmart.

[Skaman]

Ducimus just seems to think that the US is an evil empire bent on simply killing people.

:cantbeli:

Sorry, that assumed too much. We're the evil empire bent on dominating the world through McDonald's and Walmart.

It is so hard to see?

[Ratamacue]

Ducimus just seems to think that the US is an evil empire bent on simply killing people.

:cantbeli:

Sorry, that assumed too much. We're the evil empire bent on dominating the world through McDonald's and Walmart.

It is so hard to see?

:roll:

[SeanAshi]

Nice.

So you are...Anti-Belgium then?No! :bash: Hague :fork: They can threaten us but you mess with us you get jacked the **** up :P

[MaDuce]

LOl Saddam has never been called to the Huage despite killing over a million of his own people unpurpose. While Amercia who sure has killed civilians(but not for the sake of just killing them unlike Saddam) are evil evil people even though we havent done 1/121398 of the things Saddam did.

[BlackRain]

This Kangaroo Court in Belgium has been found to have violated international law themselves.

On February 14, 2002, the International Court of Justice (ICJ or Court), the principal judicial organ of the United Nations located in The Hague, The Netherlands, ruled that Belgium has violated international law by allowing a Belgian judge to issue and circulate an arrest warrant in absentia against the then Foreign Minister of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). The ICJ held, by 13 votes to three, that Belgium thereby failed to respect the immunity from criminal jurisdiction and the inviolability which the incumbent Foreign Minister enjoyed under customary international law. By way of remedy, the Court found, by 10 votes to six, that Belgium must, by means of its own choosing, cancel the arrest warrant and so inform all the authorities to whom that warrant was circulated.

[SeanAshi]

yawwwwwn....Hauge...No jurisdiction no authority http://www.dallasdancemusic.com/forums/images/smilies/wank.gif