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ed316
10-19-2006, 12:02 PM
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UK 'number one al-Qaeda target'
Al-Qaeda has become more organised and sophisticated and has made Britain its top target, counter-terrorism officials have told the BBC.

Security sources say the situation has never been so grim, said BBC home affairs correspondent Margaret Gilmore.
They believe the network is now operating a cell structure in the UK - like the IRA did - and sees the 7 July bomb attacks "as just the beginning".
Each cell has a leader, a quartermaster dealing with weapons, and volunteers.
According to our correspondent, each cell works on separate, different plots, with masterminds controlling several different cells.
Those involved in the cells were often aware they were being followed and so were meeting in public spaces.
In addition, training is taking place in the UK and Pakistan.

They set up groups a bit like Boy Scouts or Boys' Brigade... totally legitimate
BBC home affairs correspondent Margaret Gilmore

It was thought that five years ago al-Qaeda was a number of "loosely-connected organisations" with common aims, but it is now more organised, she said.
Security officials are concerned the group is targeting universities and the community, and are "less worried" about mosques, she added.
The network is targeting men in their late teens and early 20s, according to our correspondent.
"They set up groups a bit like Boy Scouts or Boys' Brigade... totally legitimate.
"Those who are particularly interested they start giving religious indoctrination.
"Then those who are very interested they start introducing to political teachings, anti-Western rhetoric.
Bonding sessions
"And those who are still interested they then start giving technical training.
"They also start sending them on bonding sessions to things like white-water rafting.
"You end up with a small team of people - the cell is prepared.
"A lot of this is happening outside London," our correspondent added.
Joint regional offices of MI5 intelligence gatherers and anti-terrorist police officers have been set up in Manchester, Birmingham and Sheffield.

The leadership of al-Qaeda does appear to ... be more coherent and organised than had been thought in recent years
Gordon Corera
BBC security correspondent

BBC security correspondent Gordon Corera said the view was Britain was particularly vulnerable because "it may be easier for al-Qaeda to strike the UK than other targets".
He said these views were "based on activity they are actually seeing. Plots they're disrupting, trials which might be coming up soon".
"There is hard evidence behind it, rather than just theories," said our correspondent.
"That's based partly on what they are seeing, in terms of the types of activity, and partly based on the coincidence, that al-Qaeda's leadership is based in the tribal areas of Pakistan where there are links to the UK and flows of people going back and forwards.
"It makes it easier to make the UK a target than the other countries it might wish to target."
The network also appeared to be better organised, he continued.
"The leadership of al-Qaeda does appear to have been re-grouping and to be more coherent and organised than had been thought in recent years.
"The view is it clearly was an organised group before 9/11, but the campaign in Afghanistan disrupted that leadership very heavily.

It is no longer about looking for a needle in a haystack
Crispin Black
Security analyst

"But in recent years, particularly in the tribal areas between Pakistan and Afghanistan, the al-Qaeda leadership has been able to re-group and re-organise itself.
"In doing so it's able to open up channels of communication, contact, recruitment and planning around the world, and operate those in a more coherent fashion than maybe we were seeing three years' ago."
However, intelligence analyst Crispin Black said another attack in the UK "was not inevitable", citing the UK's "considerable successes against the IRA".
"We still have that expertise and training present within our military forces and intelligence," he said.
"It is no longer about looking for a needle in a haystack. We have some pretty good clues and information on where we should be looking."
A Home Office spokeswoman referred to a recent speech by Home Secretary John Reid in which he referred to the now "seamless threat" of radicalisation. This was a challenge they expected to "last a generation", she said.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/6065460.stm

Published: 2006/10/19 12:43:30 GMT

© BBC MMVI

Freedom06
10-19-2006, 12:04 PM
We must be doing something right then....

Pandy
10-19-2006, 12:10 PM
We must be doing something right then....

Well, it's a lot harder to pull off a terror attack on the United States. Some might argue against this, but it's true, there hasn't been a Terrorist attack since 9/11/01, and there as been countless number of attacks in other nations.

Freedom06
10-19-2006, 12:19 PM
No- my point is that the more AQ hates us the more we know we are on the right track-they stand for an end to freedom of thought, a new era of repression-being no.1 on their hit list makes me proud... Not to say I am gung-ho about terrorost attacks-I saw enough of them in Israel...
Regarding british security i say we have a lot of catching up to do after years of neglecting the monster in our midst ( Londanistan) but MI5 is getting on top of things by a heavy recruiting drive and opening up regional offices across the country ( Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester)-and in some ways the more that AQ morphs into a traditional terrorist structure the more we will know how to tackle them (like the IRA).....

oldsoak
10-19-2006, 12:20 PM
Well, various Islamic groups take groups out in Wales for the bonding sessions. Hence the white waterrafting stuff.

The UK is actually harder to police because we tread to damn softly with theses guys.

Freedom06
10-19-2006, 12:32 PM
Pakistan playes a key role in all of this-we really need them on our side, to combat the Taliban effectively in Afghanistan and also to get intel. on these bloke that go over there and become ( further) radicalised-Musharraf has us by the goolies and he knows it.... The 7/7 leads pointed towards Pakistan-although that seems to have gone quiet.... Maybe in the future they won't need the Pakistan connection at all and will do all there training over here-although that would be a lot harder to do weapons training etc...

Mr Gently Benevolent
10-19-2006, 12:51 PM
No- my point is that the more AQ hates us the more we know we are on the right track-they stand for an end to freedom of thought, a new era of repression-being no.1 on their hit list makes me proud... Not to say I am gung-ho about terrorost attacks-I saw enough of them in Israel...
Regarding british security i say we have a lot of catching up to do after years of neglecting the monster in our midst ( Londanistan) but MI5 is getting on top of things by a heavy recruiting drive and opening up regional offices across the country ( Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester)-and in some ways the more that AQ morphs into a traditional terrorist structure the more we will know how to tackle them (like the IRA).....I think that you have been slightly misled or ill informed if you imagine Londonistan as you call it to be the mother lode of jihadist terror, it would seem that most current information seems to direct us to all points north of the capital.

Freedom06
10-19-2006, 12:53 PM
I think that you have been slightly misled or ill informed if you imagine Londonistan as you call it to be the mother lode of jihadist terror, it would seem that most current information seems to direct us to all points north of the capital.

No I was referring to the past :'after years of neglecting'-it used to be in London ( as the French secret services had been saying during the 90's-we were harboring various algerian radicals etc)-but you are right it has migrated north....

a_very_ex_STAB
10-19-2006, 01:12 PM
Nothing new there then.
Yawn

I wonder if putting this out now is one of those Orwellian attempts to prime the masses for another round of assaults on civil liberties in the UK?
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1902830.ece

a_very_ex_STAB
10-19-2006, 01:14 PM
Well, it's a lot harder to pull off a terror attack on the United States. Some might argue against this, but it's true, there hasn't been a Terrorist attack since 9/11/01, and there as been countless number of attacks in other nations.

True but the US is a much less open society since 911
You did have those anthrax attacks though and didn't some Arab guy go postal at LAX?

a_very_ex_STAB
10-19-2006, 01:17 PM
No I was referring to the past :'after years of neglecting'-it used to be in London ( as the French secret services had been saying during the 90's-we were harboring various algerian radicals etc)-but you are right it has migrated north....

At the time the Frogs were moaning about that stuff in the 90s our security had their hands full dealing with IRA terrorists whose avowed aim was to cripple the British economy by destroying financial institutions in the City of London.
Muslims who were not causing trouble in Britain at the time were probably not a priority. I wonder how much help we got from the French in the campaign against the IRA? After all IRA guys were going all over Europe on weapons buying trips.

Freedom06
10-19-2006, 01:21 PM
At the time the Frogs were moaning about that stuff in the 90s our security had their hands full dealing with IRA terrorists whose avowed aim was to cripple the British economy by destroying financial institutions in the City of London.
Muslims who were not causing trouble in Britain at the time were probably not a priority. I wonder how much help we got from the French in the campaign against the IRA? After all IRA guys were going all over Europe on weapons buying trips.

I still think it is very short sighted to ignore the threat or to rely on some kind of gentlemans agreement ( we won't disturb you if you don't attack us-talk about pact with the devil!). I think Elisa Manningham and co. have a lot to answer for in terms of leadership and the way they handled this

a_very_ex_STAB
10-19-2006, 01:23 PM
I still think it is very short sighted to ignore the threat or to rely on some kind of gentlemans agreement ( we won't disturb you if you don't attack us-talk about pact with the devil!). I think Elisa Manningham and co. have a lot to answer for in terms of leadership and the way they handled this

In an ideal world I agree you're right. In the real world of finite resources priorities have to be decided on.

Would you have wanted to live in a UK whose economy had been destroyed?

Freedom06
10-19-2006, 01:28 PM
In an ideal world I agree you're right. In the real world of finite resources priorities have to be decided on.

Would you have wanted to live in a UK whose economy had been destroyed?

How big a threat was the Real IRA in the 90's? Was it that big that it ate up the whole of Mi5's resources? Off the top of my head there was the Manchester bombing, Canary Wharf and Warrington ( none of which caused mass casualties)... If it did then they should of had more funding, you can't have a one issue security service, tunnel vision is a bad thing...

a_very_ex_STAB
10-19-2006, 01:38 PM
How big a threat was the Real IRA in the 90's? Was it that big that it ate up the whole of Mi5's resources? Off the top of my head there was the Manchester bombing, Canary Wharf and Warrington ( none of which caused mass casualties)... If it did then they should of had more funding, you can't have a one issue security service, tunnel vision is a bad thing...

I'm not talking about the so called Real IRA I'm talking about PIRA. IIRC in the 90's the City financial institutions they successfully targeted included The Baltic Exchange, Bishopsgate (my office got some of the blast from that one), and Canary Wharf. Why do you think the HMG was in such a hurry to 'make peace' with them?

This is OT for an AQ thread so i'll shut up :-)

Freedom06
10-19-2006, 01:46 PM
I get my Real IRA and PIRA mixed up-sorry for that....

XShipRider
10-19-2006, 02:52 PM
Nothing new there then.
Yawn

I wonder if putting this out now is one of those Orwellian attempts to prime the masses for another round of assaults on civil liberties in the UK?
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1902830.ece

Yep, you need a Queen's English version of the Patriot Act.:)

Freedom06
10-19-2006, 02:56 PM
Yep, you need a Queen's English version of the Patriot Act.:)

If we ever get anything like that over here I'm grabbing my snorkel and moving to Tuvalu...

Jobu
10-19-2006, 02:59 PM
If we ever get anything like that over here I'm grabbing my snorkel and moving to Tuvalu...

Watch out for those stingrays.

Freedom06
10-19-2006, 03:06 PM
Watch out for those stingrays.

well you may laugh but ( excuse the deviation from main thread..) but maybe you're onto something..

from BBC News website:

"Jumping stingray stabs US boater

Stingray attacks on humans are extremely rare
A US man has been stabbed in the chest by a stingray which leapt on board his boat in Florida.
James Bertakis, 81, was critically ill in hospital after undergoing surgery to remove the stingray's barb.

He was brought ashore by his granddaughter and her friend, who were also on the boat, after the attack.

Last month, Australian TV naturalist Steve Irwin died when a stingray's barb pierced his heart as he filmed at Queensland's Great Barrier Reef.

US officials say they are shocked at the attack on Mr Bertakis.

"It was a freak accident," David Donzella, acting fire chief in Mr Bertakis' hometown of Lighthouse Point, was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

"It's very odd that the thing jumped out of the water and stung him. We still can't believe it," he said.

Surgeons were able to remove some of the barb from Mr Bertakis' chest.

The stingray died on the boat after the attack, officials said.

The stingray is a flat, triangular-shaped fish, commonly found in tropical waters.

It gets its name from the razor-sharp barb at the end of its tail, coated in toxic venom, which it uses in defence when it feels threatened.

Attacks on humans are extremely rare, scientists say. ":cantbeli:

Zarathustra
10-19-2006, 11:47 PM
It sure is a lot easier to commit a terror-strike on their little rainy island than in fortified America.

ando
10-20-2006, 05:20 AM
"It sure is a lot easier to commit a terror-strike on their little rainy island than in fortified America. "

Omg shall some one educate this child please before i slap him

oldsoak
10-20-2006, 05:31 AM
At the time the Frogs were moaning about that stuff in the 90s our security had their hands full dealing with IRA terrorists whose avowed aim was to cripple the British economy by destroying financial institutions in the City of London.
Muslims who were not causing trouble in Britain at the time were probably not a priority. I wonder how much help we got from the French in the campaign against the IRA? After all IRA guys were going all over Europe on weapons buying trips.

You'd be suprised. The French and Spanish were interested in the IRA because of possible links to ETA. The Germans were a bit pissed off after Germans got shot at ( and killed ) by the IRA.

a_very_ex_STAB
10-20-2006, 05:31 AM
It sure is a lot easier to commit a terror-strike on their little rainy island than in fortified America.


How come AQ gave you the big bukkake shot on 911 right in the heart of the Evil Empire then and not on our rainy little island?:roll:

Freedom06
10-20-2006, 06:10 AM
It sure is a lot easier to commit a terror-strike on their little rainy island than in fortified America.

Has this guy never heard of a certain 'James Bond' huh, ring a bell? :roll:

ando
10-20-2006, 07:44 AM
Hehehehe no i dont think he would have,going by his previous comment