Can Iraq get any worse?

[American Patriot]

With daily casualties, kidnappings, videos of IED attacks(there's at least a handful including the M113 incident in Fallujah where five died), and soon-to-be taped executions?

I don't see this **** ending any time soon, not by June 30th or a year later. Not with 145,000 thousand troops. No way.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Yeah it could get a lot worse but on the other hand it could get a lot better I would not put money on either at the moment, but lets hope things improve.

[HELEX]

Yes it can, if the Grandayatolla stops saying "peace brothers, peace" and says just one time "jihad" the gates of hell will open..... and the the current situation will look like nothing compared to what is coming.

[talib_killa34]

Yes it can, if the Grandayatolla stops saying "peace brothers, peace" and says just one time "jihad" the gates of hell will open..... and the the current situation will look like nothing compared to what is coming.

That is true.

With some cunning and alot of luck it will not be so.

I truly do not know why anyone would be against this country's reconstruction unless it was to further their own power.

Sounds like Afghanistan.

What a world.

[SeanAshi]

Yes it can, if the Grandayatolla stops saying "peace brothers, peace" and says just one time "jihad" the gates of hell will openThese guys must share the same thoughts with Hamas...al Sadr is on a power trip as we speak, he loves the attention. If he believes he will establish a shiite like government like Iran he is sorely mistaken.

[talib_killa34]

Thankfully, it looks like Iraqi's do not want to follow this turd. Too young, too brash.....

He just needs to be nicely swatted back down for all the bad sh%# he has done and be arrested.

Or killed.

[scm77]

It could get worse if the Chemical weapons started to appear now that they aren't wearing NBC suits, and carrying gas masks. :(

[HELEX]

Thankfully, it looks like Iraqi's do not want to follow this turd. Too young, too brash.....

I've found out somewhere he is hardly able to read and has nearly no education. He is just an iranian Puppet.

Real question is what happens when they kill this Idiot, perhaps the Ayatolla is just eager to get rid of him and starts his own attack when its done.

[EchoSierra2]

History tells us that it can and it will. woot

[GrantT]

and it will. woot

Your happy it will get worse?

[cut]

It could get worse if the Chemical weapons started to appear now that they aren't wearing NBC suits, and carrying gas masks. :(

not likely, if saddam didn't use them, the shiites certainly aren't going to know where they are if there were any. And it's not exactly a weapon you can use effectively in asymetric warfare

[Johnnyringo]

Yes... every anti american muslim could find their way to Fallujah and take up arms in an Islamic crusade against the great white devil and then the US would be forced to kill them one by one...

Or they could put down their arms elect a government that represents the population and wait till the U.S. leaves, and then kill each other in the name of allah....

Or the smart ones could flee to S.A. or Kuwait make enough money to hop to the U.S. then get jobs at Wal Mart to support their kids and their 3 bedroom condos and live the life they're fighting against.

[TALOS]

It could get worse if the Chemical weapons started to appear now that they aren't wearing NBC suits, and carrying gas masks. :(

not likely, if saddam didn't use them, the shiites certainly aren't going to know where they are if there were any. And it's not exactly a weapon you can use effectively in asymetric warfare
Two things, who says its not the very Iraqi officers in charge of thos e weapons that are involved here? and two, they really could care less about who they kill with the weapons, they are hiding in mosques and in heavy civilian concentrated areas.

[cut]

It could get worse if the Chemical weapons started to appear now that they aren't wearing NBC suits, and carrying gas masks. :(

not likely, if saddam didn't use them, the shiites certainly aren't going to know where they are if there were any. And it's not exactly a weapon you can use effectively in asymetric warfare
Two things, who says its not the very Iraqi officers in charge of thos e weapons that are involved here? and two, they really could care less about who they kill with the weapons, they are hiding in mosques and in heavy civilian concentrated areas.

well no-one knows for sure, but the most trusted generals would know and they are sunnis. Who would have used them in the sunni triangle if they existed.

[Lysander]

Can Iraq get any worse?

Yes it can. Another question is will it get worse?

[SeanAshi]

Call in the Russians! Baghdad is full of Chechens

[cut]

Can Iraq get any worse?

Yes it can. Another question is will it get worse?

I think it will get worse before it gets better

[SEALInTheMaking]

Oh it could get a lot worse. The real question is, with more and more of our boys dying every day, how much longer til ROE starts to take the back seat.

[Johnnyringo]

Yesterday

[talib_killa34]

Iraq is slipping into the Afghanistan and Somalia "zone" of failed nations.

Split tribes fighting against each other unless there's a useful foreign "invader" around.

Chase away the goodwill of the UN and scare off all NGO's, keep the people ignorant and starving.

Yep, great model of governing there boys and girls.

[Skaman]

1. 45 coalition casualties
2. Continual civilian deaths, 400 in Falluju
3. Senior and generally pro US supporters in Iraqi government are unhappy with American action, calling attacks in Falluju uncalled for
4. Sunnies/****ies uniting to defeat American occupation and putting aside past differences
5. Militia unit’s consolidating strength, forcing Coalition forces out with frequent skirmishes.
6. Rallying of new extremist leaders
7. Capturing of coalition forces
8. Coalition forces debating their presence in Iraq and whether they want to continue to operate in the nation. England made the claim, "the pot has come off the pressure cooker" and has serious doubt with their presence in Iraq.


CBC Newsworld

[Midav]

I'd like to know how many of those 450 are really innocent civilian deaths.

How many more that are not accounted for that are insurgents?

I realize that whatever the US does will be looked at with more skepticism than what the insurgents are doing, but what they (insurgents) are doing is not a good thing.

Personally, I've said before that if a true democracy were to thrive in Iraq, its neighbours would have to change as well.

However, too much would be lost for the dictatorships leading Syria, Iran, Saudi and co. if their people actually saw a full functional democracy on their doorstep.

Until that time, the best the US will be able to do is instill a leadership that is pro US/West and one that will be less inclined to attack its neighbours.

My two cents.

[Ichhabe]

Ducimus19 said:


1. 45 coalition casualties

Why is 45 casualties bader today than in 1944?


2. Continual civilian deaths, 400 in Falluju

That is why when a battle is eminent, it it very important for civilians to get out of the way.
As in those plaques on some hotels in Hawaii: In case of a vulcanic eruption, run AWAY from the vulcano, NOT towards it.


3. Senior and generally pro US supporters in Iraqi government are unhappy with American action, calling attacks in Falluju uncalled for

Everyone has a right to have an opinion. Do they have better solutions themselves? That is what is really difficult to come up with. Better solutions.


4. Sunnies/****ies uniting to defeat American occupation and putting aside past differences

And how long do you think this brotherhood will last?
Personally I think it wount last as long as the Coalition occupation of Iraq will last.


5. Militia unit’s consolidating strength, forcing Coalition forces out with frequent skirmishes.

A skirmish is what it is. A skirmish. The day they force them out to do large decisive batles, then we can talk.


6. Rallying of new extremist leaders

You don't need the war in Iraq, or the unrest in any other Middle-East region to rally them. It seems like whatever we do, they rally for insanity.


7. Capturing of coalition forces

That is bad. But war is war. One must expect casualties.


8. Coalition forces debating their presence in Iraq and whether they want to continue to operate in the nation. England made the claim, "the pot has come off the pressure cooker" and has serious doubt with their presence in Iraq.

That is the hell about living in a democracy. Countries, states, Governments and people have the right to have an opinion. And even the right to change that opinion, as many times as they want.
A healthy debate should always be welcomed. Maybe that is what is going on in the UK?

[Johnnyringo]

Ducimus... your post sucks...

[Skaman]

Ducimus19 said:


1. 45 coalition casualties

Why is 45 casualties bader today than in 1944?

In a "post war" period of liberation this is not ideal.


2. Continual civilian deaths, 400 in Falluju

That is why when a battle is eminent, it very important for civilians to get out of the way.
As in those plaques on some hotels in Hawaii: In case of a vulcanic eruption, run AWAY from the volcano, NOT towards it.

Civilians who were hiding in Mosques or within their homes? CBC made a report that 30 Iraqi taking cover from the combat had their residence destroyed, all 30 died.


3. Senior and generally pro US supporters in Iraqi government are unhappy with American action, calling attacks in Falluju uncalled for

Everyone has a right to have an opinion. Do they have better solutions themselves? That is what is really difficult to come up with. Better solutions.

The political elites are the ones who can truly create change In Iraq and working in cooperation and mutual support is of the outmost importance.


4. Sunnies/****ies uniting to defeat American occupation and putting aside past differences

And how long do you think this brotherhood will last?
Personally I think it wount last as long as the Coalition occupation of Iraq will last.

This "brotherhood' is yet another thorn is Americans side they will have to deal with.


5. Militia unit’s consolidating strength, forcing Coalition forces out with frequent skirmishes.

A skirmish is what it is. A skirmish. The day they force them out to do large decisive batles, then we can talk.

Iraqi victories draw support for further movements and intensify coalition resistance.

6. Rallying of new extremist leaders

You don't need the war in Iraq, or the unrest in any other Middle-East region to rally them. It seems like whatever we do, they rally for insanity.


7. Capturing of coalition forces

That is bad. But war is war. One must expect casualties.


8. Coalition forces debating their presence in Iraq and whether they want to continue to operate in the nation. England made the claim, "the pot has come off the pressure cooker" and has serious doubt with their presence in Iraq.

That is the hell about living in a democracy. Countries, states, Governments and people have the right to have an opinion. And even the right to change that opinion, as many times as they want.
A healthy debate should always be welcomed. Maybe that is what is going on in the UK?

America will have an increasingly difficult time fighting their war on terror with fewer and fewer supporters

[SeanAshi]

Other countries can jump ship The United States of America will stay the course.

[talib_killa34]

The US will stay in this country, way past their welcome, to ensure that the country does not fall back into civil war and tribal warfare. To go and pull out RIGHT this minute would be nothing short of a disaster. The US are the occupiers, they owe it to the Iraqi people and the American people not to cut and run in the face of adversity!

Many soldiers, airmen, marines and sailors will ask themselves the million dollar question "Was this trip really necessary?"

To liberate a nation from the grip of a despotic leader and his ruling family.

The Armed Forces will readily say , "YES."

To pull out now, means all those casualties were in vain. Like in Somalia, they will look back and say "Mission was not accomplished"

The USA needs to leave this country as soon as possible, but not if there is no functioning government or any security forces. POWER VACUUM!!!!!!!!

Suppress this rebellion, hold on until June 30th, and leave this @$$@ country in as quick a time that will allow. (Or at least leave 30K troops there like in Japan)

To have 100 + thousand troops being ground down into fatigue like a fine thoroughbred horse run into the ground, is just asking for us to lose our brilliant volunteer force to mediocrity.

The men will not allow that to happen, but when retention becomes a larger problem.....what then?

No leaving, not yet, but hurry up bud.

[Ichhabe]

ducimus 19 said:


America will have an increasingly difficult time fighting their war on terror with fewer and fewer supporters

It is not often I use quotes from movies to comment on real life events. I will however use one now.
Here it goes:

Sometimes **** happens.
Forrest Gump

[talib_killa34]

P.S Quote "America will have an increasingly difficult time fighting their war on terror with fewer and fewer supporters"


We'll just wait until another attack on US soil (God forbid) and more terrorist attacks on EU countries, then we should be like one big happy allied family again.

CUZ THAT'S USUALLY WHAT IT TAKES! Being a constant victim!!!!!! :fork:

[Johnnyringo]

Ducimus... how can anyone here take your posts seriously???

LOL "In a post war period of liberation this is not ideal"?

What is ideal? 1 dead... 2 dead.... 10 dead.... do you think there is a magic number where the U.S. will say "oh, hell no, we've had enough!" We will stay in Iraq until there is peace and there are free elections.

[Ichhabe]

ducimus 19 said:


The political elites are the ones who can truly create change In Iraq and working in cooperation and mutual support is of the outmost importance.


This is how politicans answer a question.

I can tell you one thing: As situation is now in Iraq, those politicians would not been able to put two stones together, even if they were marked A and B, and they had a blue print on how it was supposed to be done.

You are way to optimistic on how they can act and cooperate toghether.

[MEGR]

For the Americans on the board, and to people who actually want this whole conundrum we call Iraq to succeed; listen up. I'm optimistic. I have faith in the Coalition, and in their military power. I know that there are troubles going around...Nobody as far as I know said that this was going to be easy; however, what the Coalition is doing is something historical.. We are trying to establish a democracy in a part of the world that hates us (except Israel). It appears that some of you just spew out negativity, and mock, and mock anything that the Coalition does.. Its not healthy. The war has started whether you liked it or not. The least you all could do is hope that this thing suceeds and that all our boys and girls can come back home. These insurgents will be crushed.. Don't let the bad news bring you all down. Take for example the Marines.. They have fought some of the bloodiest battles in history yet came on top. It will be the same in Iraq..
This post war occupation has not gone very well.. However, we have strong leadership and strong men and women fighting this thing, and who will win this thing.
I think that this is a time of testing for us.. Iraq was never going to be easy, and people aren't going to just love us from the get go.. Regardless, we will succeed.

[Resevoir Hogs]

In a "post war" period of liberation this is not ideal.

Let me ask you something ducimus, how is the environment in Iraq "post war".
Conducting offensive operations is war. I hope you would know that sort of thing since you claim to be in the military. rofl

[usa320]

It could get worse- but for the most part i think once sadr and his radical friends are dealt with things will quickly improve.

[Trident-za]

In a "post war" period of liberation this is not ideal.

Let me ask you something ducimus, how is the environment in Iraq "post war".
Conducting offensive operations is war. I hope you would know that sort of thing since you claim to be in the military. rofl

I suspect the "post-war" bit came from your President. Just saying...

[Resevoir Hogs]

If you actually listened to what he said it was that major combat operations were over and Saddam's army had been demolished. Not that the war was over. He has constantly said "it will be a costly and long road but we won't back down."


I suspect the "post-war" bit came from your President. Just saying...

[Haiw]

Major combat operations over...yeah right. Like that wasn't the misnomer of the century. :roll:

[TALOS]

Major combat operations over...yeah right. Like that wasn't the misnomer of the century. :roll:
At that time Major combat WAS over.
My opinion only but I believe (and I hate to draw a comparison but the media keeps doin it so here goes) that the current condition in Iraq is much like the TET offensive in Vietnam where the north felt that a popular uprising would occur and committed large forces to the offensive. The American and South Vietnamese troops decimated the enemy (albeit with heavy losses) and would have been in a much stronger military position had not the politicians balked.
The difference here is that the political will to continue is much greater this time. The insurgents (maybe hoping to duplicate the effects in '68 as they have compared it themselves) have come out in the open and although it will be bloody, the coalition will slowly decimate them and drive them under. The non-combatants or the fence sitters will watch and decide as they see who gets the upper hand, when the US defeats the insurgents they stand a better chance of at least earning a grudging respect from a people who have historically always favored the powerful.
I M H O p-)