Should same *** couples be allowed to adopt

[--Mac--]

This should hopeful bring about some entertaining debate. My personal beliefs are that the adoption should be based on the couples parenting abilities not there ****** orientation. The fact that a person is gay does not automatically make them a bad parent. I do not believe that just because the parents are gay that the child will by gay. I do not believe that gay parents will raise a child with a warped view on life; it may even give the child a more tolerant outlook. I believe that a same *** couple will have a harder time explaining to the child why the parents are different than all the other children’s parents. Protecting the child from the ridicule of being different will also be hard. But having seen all the brainless parents out there I can not believe that just because some one is gay automatically makes them a bad parent, in the same way that just because you are straight doesn’t make you a good parent. There are too many people in this world who have children and just don’t care for them. They Smoke, drink, and do drugs while they are pregnant. They are not involved in their child’s lives. They use their children as a way to get paid. Not only in the US I have seen people try to throw there children in front of military vehicles, and when asked why they told me that they were told that if the US runs over there child they will get paid. Being a straight married man myself I do not have any personal knowledge on this, so I leave it for open debate.

[Switek]

What's the difference between getting driving licence and being a parent?

significant!

To get permission to drive you must have some skills, learn rules, pass practical training and some tests. To be a parent you can have IQ below 85 but having healthy private parts no one can forbid you this.

This a matter of basic freedom. It depend on you how you use it. Pepole hardly are ware how big is scale of home vilolence against kids in so called "good families" . Don't mentioning ****** harassment. That's the painful true and second bottom of our daily life...

Basicaly I'm against adoption of kids by homoseksual couples. But what with, disfunctional and sick (with AIDS, for example) kids who no one wants? There are many arising difficult moral questions... But natural state is to have both parents: mom and dad...

[zad]

In my country they can (Spain)

[spale]

no they shouldn't IMO

[Scorpion]

NO! absolutely NOT! every child has the right to have a mother and a father. In a "family" with 2 fathers or 2 mothers, how is the child going to learn how a real family is supposed to work?

[signatory]

NO! absolutely NOT! every child has the right to have a mother and a father. In a "family" with 2 fathers or 2 mothers, how is the child going to learn how a real family is supposed to work?

maybe fine tune your arguments.... Children don't have those rights and many are raised by a single parent..

By arguing that "real" families is man+woman (I suppose you mean straight man + straight woman and not straight man + lesbian woman or something like that...) you leave yourself wide open for attack...

[-stk-]

A child should only be brought up by a mother and father. Being brought up by a gay couple is just wrong, end of story.

I was brought up with christian morales. While I was always told as a kid that being gay was wrong, I was also taught to not hate and disrespect such people. So naturally thats the way i think kids should be brought up today.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

I've got no problems with same *** couples raising kids. There is no grounds at all to prevent them.

[Aussie Sapper]

It takes a woman and a man to make a child, henceforth the parents are a woman and a man.

When "same ***" couples can replicate in the "normal" sense, then they can have children of their own.

[Scorpion]

maybe fine tune your arguments.... Children don't have those rights and many are raised by a single parent..
yes, that's unfortunately true. what I meant is that every child should be granted the right to be raised in a real family. nobody is perfect and some couples break up but that's a different story.

by "real family" I mean the child's parents (mother and father) as I see this as something that was defined by God and should not be altered by man.
I fully agree with -stk- here.

[LRPV]

NO.

For cryin out loud, think of the kids.What about their rights to a normal life?

This gay rights stuff has gone too far.

[signatory]

Adoption is such a tiny element to this issue. IMO quite irrelevant.

Without actual statistics I am sure surrogate mothers and fathers for gay couples far outnumber possible adoptions should it be legal. Using surrogate's at least half of the DNA will be in the newborn so this is a prefered option for many people regardless.

Also, just because it would be legal doesn't mean the child's guardian and its agencies would accept a gay couple on the receiving end. AFAIK china do not allow this.

[Luno]

NO! absolutely NOT! every child has the right to have a mother and a father. In a "family" with 2 fathers or 2 mothers, how is the child going to learn how a real family is supposed to work?

hmmm prejudiced? i did only have an father because my mother did die when i where 10 months old so it must be something wrong with me :|
so forget the right to have a mother and a father. it doesn’t exist and have never ever existed

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

NO.

For cryin out loud, think of the kids.What about their rights to a normal life?

This gay rights stuff has gone too far.

Homo******ity is normal.

Believe it or not. Same *** parants generally speaking provide better nurturing due to the fact that the couple face more discrimination from society. Hence the family group becomes closer as opposed to a "normal family"

[Daniel San]

First of all, homo******ity isn't genetic or infectious.
Second, until there is sufficient evidence that having two dads or two moms will have a definitely negative impact on the development of a child there is absolutely no reason why a child could not be raised by two loving people, be they of same ***.
Children do not have the right to have a mom and a dad, they have the right to be loved and taken care of. Until further notice, gay people can do that.
Who is being protected or helped by not allowing gay people to adopt?

And the possibility of being picked on because your parents are gay is not a sufficient reason not to allow gay adoption. Kids get teased and harassed for less than that. The child can always say that his dads are going to beat the other kid's dad or that his moms are going to make a fuss so the teasing ends!

[Switek]

Homo******ity is normal.

Believe it or not. Same *** parants generally speaking provide better nurturing due to the fact that the couple face more discrimination from society. Hence the family group becomes closer as opposed to a "normal family"

Homoseuxuality is normal but represents only small rate of ****** performance in all societes. Homesexsual behaviors can be observed in animal wold too. But this norm is a just small margin. No one can deny it.

The problem is that we learn a role to be father/mother by adopting some our parents' patterns of behavior in a natural way by observing and copying. In families with one parent the vacancy of other parent is fulfiled by new partner or some relatives (uncles, aunts, grandparents)...

There is no only problem of high level of nurturing, or high material status, for example, but as I mentionened above, learning and adopting some lifes' roles which are inseparable with *** of parents. An what is the most important as better we learn those roles (as better our parents are) than we have better chances to be a good husband/wife and good parent in the future.

[Geezah]

I say no, I do not consider homo******ity to be normal, and I do not believe in a dad and a dad or a mum and a mum.
I am not on the outside looking in, as my sister-in-law is a born again Lesbian and my cousin-in-law is a Lesbian also, this is on the wifes side.
Now upon saying that, any family do I go to, I always look forward to my wifes cousin-in-law turning up with her bird, she's always the life of the party and is not a man hater, as she has traveled to our side in the past.

[budgie]

Sure same-*** couples should be allowed to adopt - provided they pass the same standards that call prospective adopting parents face.

[dangerclose]

Homoseuxuality is normal but represents only small rate of ****** performance in all societes. Homesexsual behaviors can be observed in animal wold too.


So can infanticide, cannibalism and licking one's own nuts but that doesn't make it 'normal' for human beings.

[xknight76]

no they should not! our orphanages are not filled to capacity yet! the state still has room for more! two gay people will produce a gay child, just the way a straight couple produces only straight children! <end sarcasm>




honestly, if it will give a child a loving home instead of bouncing them around from foster family to foster family (some of whom are only in it for the govt. check) then i'm for it. I won't stop someone from doing a service, i personally don't want to do.

[Switek]

So can infanticide, cannibalism and licking one's own nuts but that doesn't make it 'normal' for human beings.

dont put equal mark between my post and your opinions

[kosse]

A law was passed here last week to allow lesbian couples impregnation treatments. I don't see anything wrong with it or this. There's no problem allowing responsible same *** couples to adopt or have children. I'm more concerned about all those retards who make children without any concept of what they are getting themselves into. Too many children are born into already broken or otherwise ****ty families with incapable parents. Hence some kind "reproduction licence" should be introduced :|

[praetorian6]

Homo******ity is normal.

Believe it or not. Same *** parants generally speaking provide better nurturing due to the fact that the couple face more discrimination from society.

That's kinda what I was thinking. I've seen some "normal" (ie, biological mother and father) parents that should never have been allowed to breed let alone "raise" a child. I would rather see a kid go to a same-*** couple than to some POS traditional family.

[Vandervahn]

Ha. Ha. Ha.

"A child has the right to a mother and father":
This statement is idotic. It would imply that every single parent should either be forced to stay in continuous relationship, or give the child away once becoming single. Likewise, how is this "right" fulfilled if the children rather stays in an orphanage?

-----------

"A child needs a normal family":
What is a normal family? Is a family defined by having a male and a female part... or is a family not rather a construct of people that share an especial emotional binding? The bioligical binding is out of the question since we are speaking of adopted children here.

-----------

"A child will adopt certain behavioural patterns of the parents":
And what exactly is wrong with homo******s other than they love someone of the same ***? Its not like a children is confronted with ****** activities by its parents (usually), be they homos or heteros. That leaves that the only "gay" pattern the child could adopt is IDENTICAL to the one between loving heteros: That two people love and care for each other and form a binding out of this. The concept of love is universal and applies to both same and opposite *** relationships.

If the ****** orientation of the parents had any big meaning, one could come to the conclusion that a kid from a stable hetero household could not become gay, too? Ridiculous. Likewise, the children of a single parent without other relationships would mean that the kids become a****** if we follow that logic.

It is true that a child indoctrinated by its, say, lesbian parents to hate men might be "damaged". But that is a remote possibility, and the same "damage" occurs when a child is brought up to despise jews, blacks or non-christians. That is not an uniquely gay problem, and can even be countered much more effectively because adoptees are still monitored by the authorities (depending on the state you live in). And nevertheless, it is known that people ready to accept ANOTHER PERSON`s child as their own are statistically more stable families than others who might not prepared for it... and that is indifferent of whether these people are homo or hetero.

----------------

The ONLY really important thing for a child to grow up "normally" is that there is someone they can relate to, and someone that shows it how to fit into a social structure. It doesnt matter whether this is a woman or a man. It doesnt even have to be a parent, many people have been raised by their grandparents, uncles/aunts, siblings... hell, some even by animals. A child needs someone it can TRUST and DEPEND on, it doesnt need someone that chisels out every bit of their character... and it is good that way, otherwise we´d be a mere copy of our parents.

Maybe these situations are not the optimum, but I KNOW several people who never had this kind of relation to a "parent" and were brought up under supervision in Orphanages or toured several foster care families - THEY are the ones having problems.

---------------

If we´re honest, most people in this thread objecting against adopting gay parents do so NOT for the good of the kid... noone who remotely knows how it is to grow up without parents could honestly do that... they object because they STILL cannot accept the fact that some people might have a different view on ******ity... and the ONLY reason for this is that some faulty and idiotic moral-religious reasons TELL them so.

I wonder how long it takes until all you boneheads start to realize that being a homo****** DOES NOT require wearing Latex, does NOT reuqire to be fat, unwashed and have a buzzcut, does NOT require to jump on every man that drops his soap, does NOT involve being a lewd and asocial person. Its just a ****** orientation, and otherwise these persons are perfectly capable of being a member of society, and to teach a children how to live n that society.

I´m pretty sure most of you know people that are gay (openly or in the closet), wear clothes designed by gays, listen to music by gays, let yourself get treated by gay medical personnel etc.... How on earth can it be justified that gays cant raise children when the ONLY OTHER OPTION may be that these children have NO parents at all?!?

You guys can continue leaving in your self-induced hate of homo******s, projecting your fears of moral insecurity on them... or like me and others just accept that gays exist like the postman around the corner exists - and move on to the IMPORTANT issues of society.

[Litti]

According to statistics, children raised by lesbian or gay couples tend to fare quite well in life. So there really is no argument for saying that one should think of the children. Unless you are into biblical nonsense.

[AK-Lover]

Adoption? This is just outrageous! This is definantly taking it too far. I was ok with same-*** marriage but this is too much! Sickening!

[Geezah]

According to statistics, children raised by lesbian or gay couples tend to fare quite well in life.

According to statistics, so just how long have they been studying children being raised by two mums or two dads???



So there really is no argument for saying that one should think of the children. Unless you are into biblical nonsense.

And there is no valid arguement that it is normal, afterall chilrdren have been raised by A and B parents for years, hundreds of years just fine, now all of a sudden according to statistics, kids raised by same *** couples is normal.........please.

And please stop using the arguement that two disfunctional parents is reason enough for kids to be adopted by gays or lesbians, there are plenty of responsible straight couples that would love to adopt.

[sferrin]

First of all, homo******ity isn't genetic or infectious.

There's a compelling arguement ;)




Second, until there is sufficient evidence that having two dads or two moms will have a definitely negative impact on the development of a child there is absolutely no reason why a child could not be raised by two loving people, be they of same ***.

So you're proposing to use children as guinea pigs? Nice.



Children do not have the right to have a mom and a dad, they have the right to be loved and taken care of. Until further notice, gay people can do that.


And people could be fed intraveiniously for their entire lives but it's probably not a great idea.




Who is being protected or helped by not allowing gay people to adopt?


The kid. Duh.



And the possibility of being picked on because your parents are gay is not a sufficient reason not to allow gay adoption. Kids get teased and harassed for less than that. The child can always say that his dads are going to beat the other kid's dad or that his moms are going to make a fuss so the teasing ends!

It more along the lines of it already being difficult enough, why intentionally stack the deck against the kid? In a lesbian relationship who's going to provide a boy's MALE role model Hollywood? Same with a little girl raised by two guys. On the other hand they let single people adopt so who knows? I know *I* wouldn't have wanted to be raised by "Rick" and "James". But that's just me.

[sferrin]

That's kinda what I was thinking. I've seen some "normal" (ie, biological mother and father) parents that should never have been allowed to breed let alone "raise" a child. I would rather see a kid go to a same-*** couple than to some POS traditional family.

I agree. In fact I'd think if I were part of a gay couple who wanted to adopt I'd consider that my strongest arguement.

[Nick_Karatzides]

Mother Nature created the male and the female *** for a reason! This "male & female" model (as a genetic productive couple) seems to work fine for billions of years on this specific planet called Earth. Of course if anybody "NOT normaly *** oriented" would like to experiment, is free to do it, with his/her own kids, on his/her own risk, on another planet or galaxy. Children breeding & growing up is a VERY serious matter and could never be a project to experiment with.


Playing or trying to cheat / fool around with mother Nature's simple based rules, is NOT a good idea


PS. If the coment "NOT normaly *** oriented" was a reason for someone to be insulted, I could always give some explanations - if this is OK with MP.net rules.

[Geezah]

That's kinda what I was thinking. I've seen some "normal" (ie, biological mother and father) parents that should never have been allowed to breed let alone "raise" a child. I would rather see a kid go to a same-*** couple than to some POS traditional family.

How many POS traditional familes try and adopt?????

[Holycrusader]

Mother Nature created the male and the female *** for a reason! This "male & female" model (as a genetic productive couple) seems to work fine for billions of years on this specific planet called Earth. Of course if anybody "NOT normaly *** oriented" would like to experiment, is free to do it, with his/her own kids, on his/her own risk, on another planet or galaxy. Children breeding & growing up is a VERY serious matter and could never be a project to experiment with.


Playing or trying to cheat / fool around with mother Nature's simple based rules, is NOT a good idea


PS. If the coment "NOT normaly *** oriented" was a reason for someone to be insulted, I could always give some explanations - if this is OK with MP.net rules.

Funny thing to hear from someone from Greece...

[Kaapeli]

Mother Nature created the male and the female *** for a reason! This "male & female" model (as a genetic productive couple) seems to work fine for billions of years on this specific planet called Earth. Of course if anybody "NOT normaly *** oriented" would like to experiment, is free to do it, with his/her own kids, on his/her own risk, on another planet or galaxy. Children breeding & growing up is a VERY serious matter and could never be a project to experiment with.


Playing or trying to cheat / fool around with mother Nature's simple based rules, is NOT a good idea


PS. If the coment "NOT normaly *** oriented" was a reason for someone to be insulted, I could always give some explanations - if this is OK with MP.net rules.

Mother nature is the the master experimenter herself. We are all her little experiments with our quirks and ideas. She has after all "created" homo******ity in the first place and given homo******s the need to raise kids. The interesting thing about Nature is that there is no book about it, no rules telling us how things should be done. Whatever works is ok with Nature no matter how unorthodox it is, that's just evolution.

[Nick_Karatzides]

Mother Nature created the male and the female *** for a reason! This "male & female" model (as a genetic productive couple) seems to work fine for billions of years on this specific planet called Earth. Of course if anybody "NOT normaly *** oriented" would like to experiment, is free to do it, with his/her own kids, on his/her own risk, on another planet or galaxy. Children breeding & growing up is a VERY serious matter and could never be a project to experiment with.


Playing or trying to cheat / fool around with mother Nature's simple based rules, is NOT a good idea


PS. If the coment "NOT normaly *** oriented" was a reason for someone to be insulted, I could always give some explanations - if this is OK with MP.net rules.Funny thing to hear from someone from Greece...
Well InetWarrior (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=8694), I'd like you to share with us all this "funny thing" you said. Hope it's not something too "smart" for us. Because if it is... I can give some "smart" coments to hear too, for someone from Poland.

No heart feelings. OK? :) :) :)

[Nick_Karatzides]

Mother nature is the the master experimenter herself. We are all her little experiments with our quirks and ideas. She has after all "created" homo******ity in the first place and given homo******s the need to raise kids. The interesting thing about Nature is that there is no book about it, no rules telling us how things should be done. Whatever works is ok with Nature no matter how unorthodox it is, that's just evolution.My opinion is that mother Nature DID NOT "created" homo******ity (as you mentioned) and DID NOT given homo******s the need to raise kids. Human mind DID! For me, the homo******ity is a totaly unstable behavior. Excuses like "well, they can do anything they like behind their bedroom curtains" doesn't seems like an excuse to me. Wanna know the reason? Well, I can use the exact same phrase for dozens of other human "unstable" behaviors like canibalism, mating with animals, pedophilia, necrophilia etc. As you see, any unstable mind can practice these behaviors "behind his bedroom curtains"! It doesn't mean it's normal too!

"Parents" who accept the homo******ity as a fact and way of living, should not be alowed to adopt & raise children. A child NEEDS a model parent. A clild MUST have a model parent. What kind of a model parent a homo****** couple could be? Please understand, that I'm not trying to adopt or defend traditional or christianity types of thinking. I'm talking about the "normal" way VS "not-normal" way according the Nature simple rules.

[kosse]

My opinion is that mother Nature DID NOT "created" homo******ity (as you mentioned) and DID NOT given homo******s the need to raise kids. Human mind (unstable according my personal opinion) DID!
So do you also believe that it is possible to convert from gay to straight or the other way around? Or do you know of any "cure"? Is it possible for me to turn into a gay by posting ToF pictures?

[LaoSexMachine]

I think so. I know many straight married couple who are not good parents at all. Just because you are gay you can't be a good parent? Doubt the kid will have any psychological effect from being raised by two people who happened to be the same ***. Just because you are a straight couple makes you better then a gay couple? I think not.

[Kaapeli]

My opinion is that mother Nature DID NOT "created" homo******ity (as you mentioned) and DID NOT given homo******s the need to raise kids. Human mind DID! For me, the homo******ity is a totaly unstable behavior. Excuses like "well, they can do anything they like behind their bedroom curtains" doesn't seems like an excuse to me. Wanna know the reason? Well, I can use the exact same phrase for dozens of other human "unstable" behaviors like canibalism, mating with animals, pedophilia, necrophilia etc.

So you are saying that the human mind and/or brain is not natural but supernatural? Interesting theory.
Though you would still need to explain how come there is homo******ity in the animal kingdom if it's not a natural phenomena.


"Parents" who accept the homo******ity as a fact and way of living, should not be alowed to adopt & raise children. A child NEEDS a model parent. A clild MUST have a model parent.

And a person is unfit for a parent if he or she is homo******?


What kind of a model parent a homo****** couple could be?

You tell me. I don't see how homo******ity would affect a persons parenting abilities in any way.


Please understand, that I'm not trying to adopt or defend traditional or christianity types of thinking. I'm talking about the "normal" way VS "not-normal" way according the Nature simple rules.

What are the Nature's rules? Where can I read about them?

[kosse]

"Parents" who accept the homo******ity as a fact and way of living, should not be alowed to adopt & raise children.
Damn. That means that over 50% of the people in my country and propably 95% of my generation of 20-30 year olds should not have babies including me. Let's see who are left? Are pensioners, muslims and fundie christians the only ones who should be allowed to have children then? Well, we'll have to trust those muslims then to give birth to the next generation.

[Nick_Karatzides]

My opinion is that mother Nature DID NOT "created" homo******ity (as you mentioned) and DID NOT given homo******s the need to raise kids. Human mind DID!So do you also believe that it is possible to convert from gay to straight or the other way around? Or do you know of any "cure"? Is it possible for me to turn into a gay by posting ToF pictures?
kosse (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=14240) sorry, but I cannot figure out. I was never been a gay. I think it's like trying to change the Nature. After all, I'm not an expert on human phycology to figure IF it is possible to convert from gay to straight or the other way around.





"Parents" who accept the homo******ity as a fact and way of living, should not be alowed to adopt & raise children.Damn. That means that over 50% of the people in my country and propably 95% of my generation of 20-30 year olds should not have babies including me. Let's see who are left? Are pensioners, muslims and fundie christians the only ones who should be allowed to have children then? Well, we'll have to trust those muslims then to give birth to the next generation.Sorry to hear that 50% and propably 95% of generation of 20-30 yo of the people in Finland (according your statement) are gays! Didn't know that. Sounds weird...! That means that Finland (according your statement) is a "gay" nation? That means that Finland (according your statement) is a nation that products the future Finish children into labor conditions? I think not! I believe that IF your coments are right (about 50% and propably 95% of generation of 20-30 yo of the people in Finland beeing gays) the mother Nature WILL FIND the way - even with the muslims & fundie christians if need to.




I think so. I know many straight married couple who are not good parents at all. Just because you are gay you can't be a good parent? Doubt the kid will have any psychological effect from being raised by two people who happened to be the same ***. Just because you are a straight couple makes you better then a gay couple? I think not.Ezekiel25:17 (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=13655), of course you are right! There are (and will be) many straight couple makes who are not good parents. That's a fact! But if I had to choose a straight or gay couple to have a child to adopt, I would prefer the straight couple.




So you are saying that the human mind and/or brain is not natural but supernatural? Interesting theory.My friend Kaapeli (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=9232), please do not misunderstand me - I'm not trying to fight anybody. I'm only trying to express my opinion. Why bother so much?

And a person is unfit for a parent if he or she is homo******? You tell me. I don't see how homo******ity would affect a persons parenting abilities in any way.Well, I see. There comes a time that this matter will apear. I wouldn't like to experiment on a kid.

What are the Nature's rules? Where can I read about them?It's out there. You only have to open your window and observe the Nature. It will give you the answers I'm trying to tell you. No gay parents in Nature - please open your window and have a look on Nature's miracle.



Friends, I'm trying to be smart here. Is it so bad I said my opinion? Is it so much that "homo******ity" yes it IS unstable behavior? If homo******ity was a normal fact into Nature for beeing a parent, the male elephant (for example) could mate another male elephant and be able to give birth to normal baby elephants and breed them. So simple as that!

[Geezah]

I think a few are missing the point here. What does a straight breeder couple that is no good having kids, have to do with a same *** couple wanting to adopt????

Again, there are plenty of straight couples that want to adopt, why not promote letting them adopt over same *** couples?

[Kaapeli]

Well, I see. There comes a time that this matter will apear. I wouldn't like to experiment on a kid.

There have been homo****** parents throughout history. There is even research on children that grew up with homo****** parents.


It's out there. You only have to open your window and observe the Nature. It will give you the answers I'm trying to tell you. No gay parents in Nature - please open your window and have a look on Nature's miracle.

Yes, let's observe the nature. There are plenty of species in the nature that use samesex parenting all the time.

And penguins have purely gay couples that actually adopt other penguins eggs (or any egg shaped object if they can't find a real one) and built a nest to incubate it in.


Friends, I'm trying to be smart here. Is it so bad I said my opinion? Is it so much that "homo******ity" yes it IS unstable behavior? If homo******ity was a normal fact into Nature for beeing a parent, the male elephant (for example) could mate another male elephant and be able to give birth to normal baby elephants and breed them. So simple as that!

Many elephants live in family groups where there are no male elephants but only adult females and their kids that are cared for collectively by the females. An example samesex parenting.

And to claim that we humans are not natural or a part of nature is a paradox.
We are born from nature, everything we do is because of our nature. We are not above nature, we're part of it. To say we or our actions are unnatural is not to know what nature means.

[Litti]

Again, there are plenty of straight couples that want to adopt, why not promote letting them adopt over same *** couples

But what is the basis for this discrimination that you would like promote? Biblical nonsense or your gut feeling?

You should try and explain me the disadvantages, "a child has a right for mom and dad" just doesnt cut it.

[praetorian6]

How many POS traditional familes try and adopt?????

I see your point.

You are saying that these familys can't adopt anyway, which is certainly a valid point.

I was just pointing out that there are plenty of instances where a child would be better off with a good same-*** couple than with a not-so-good traditional couple. As far as adoption goes, the children should go to the family best able to take care of them-same *** or not.

(Unfortunitly) I don't think that there is going to be any shortage of children needing a good home, so it's not like the two types of couples are going to be fighting for the kids. And to be non-politically correct and realistic, if there are two couples applying for the same kid-both couples being about even in terms of providing-the kid is going to go to the traditional family anyway.

[Nick_Karatzides]

Well, I see. There comes a time that this matter will apear. I wouldn't like to experiment on a kid.There have been homo****** parents throughout history. There is even research on children that grew up with homo****** parents.Like who? Adolf?





It's out there. You only have to open your window and observe the Nature. It will give you the answers I'm trying to tell you. No gay parents in Nature - please open your window and have a look on Nature's miracle.Yes, let's observe the nature. There are plenty of species in the nature that use samesex parenting all the time.Like what? Oh, please don't tell me female lion or elephant groups breeding their babies together. These female 'mother' lions or female 'mother' elephants may be members of a same *** group of mothers, but are NOT gay animals. They had normal mate contacts with male 'father' lions or male 'father' elephants to be able to give birth on their babies. As we all know these multie-mother groups do NOT have *** each one with another & do NOT sharing the same vibrating dildo! As far as we know, these 'mothers' are NOT ******y atracted by other female 'mothers'.




Many elephants live in family groups where there are no male elephants but only adult females and their kids that are cared for collectively by the females. An example samesex parenting.Answered before!




And penguins have purely gay couples that actually adopt other penguins eggs (or any egg shaped object if they can't find a real one) and built a nest to incubate it in.Sounds crazy to me! The penguins are some of the very few monogamy animals on earth that live their lives on a male-to-female couples basis. There are MANY times that one of them trying to suicide if the other dies. Same thing as dolphins too! Same thing as (romantic) humans too!



I think that the point of our discussion is NOT "what IF" two mothers or two fathers try to raise a child. Our point of our discussion is "what IF" these specific two mothers or two fathers who try to raise a child, practice homo****** relations between them. Big difference!

[PolishKhalsa]

Eventhough my instinct says no, I do not see any logical reason against adopting children by same *** couples.

[Kaapeli]

Like who? Adolf?

What? Haven't you ever heard of homo****** parents? I even know one personally. A lesbian woman who has a kid (from previous marriage) and a girlfriend.

Here's an article for you that summarises much of the research done on the subject (which there is plenty of)
http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html


Like what? Oh, please don't tell me female lion or elephant groups breeding their babies together. These mother lions or mother elephants may be same *** group of mothers, but are NOT gay.

So if a child grows up with two adults of the same *** it's okay but if these two adults are lovers it's not? Now why is that?


They had normal mate contact with male father lions or elephents to be able to give birth on their babies. As we all know these multie-mother groups do not have *** each one another or sharing the same dildo!

Of course they had ****** contact. Just as many gays and lesbians have had children. But What has sharing a dildo got to do with raising children?


Sounds crazy to me! The penguins are some of the very few monogamy animals on earth that live their lives on a male-to-female couples basis. There are MANY times that one of them trying to suicide if the other die. Same thing as dolphins too!

Monogamy and fidelity are not opposed to homo******ity.

"Male penguin couples have been documented to mate for life, build nests together, and to use a stone as a surrogate egg in nesting and brooding."
- Wikipedia


I think that the point of our discussion is NOT "what IF" two mothers or two fathers try to raise a child. Our point of our discussion is "what IF" these specific two mothers or two fathers who try to raise a child, practice homo****** relations between them. Big difference!

Again I ask what has their ****** practices to do with raising children? I don't think adults, gay or straight, include their children in their ****** acts. Very few children even know about their parents ****** life.

[Geezah]

Should we now compare gays and lesbians to penguins, and if we should.......well, those gays and lesbians can always go to Walmart and pick up a Cabbage Patch Kid?

[Kaapeli]

Should we now compare gays and lesbians to penguins, and if we should.......well, those gays and lesbians can always go to Walmart and pick up a Cabbage Patch Kid?

Nope. I think it's pointless to even bring nature in to this discussion as an argument. That's why I was going on and on about practices in the nature as to prove that nature and what is "natural" has nothing to do with this issue.

[Nick_Karatzides]

Damn. That means that over 50% of the people in my country and propably 95% of my generation of 20-30 year olds should not have babies including me. Let's see who are left? Are pensioners, muslims and fundie christians the only ones who should be allowed to have children then? Well, we'll have to trust those muslims then to give birth to the next generation. Hmmm... OK kosse (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=14240), seems that we cannot change each other opinion. We'll never have a ****** fluids exchange but at least we had a nice opinion exchange.

As for the thread title, I would personaly prefer to have & grow up kids using the old fashioned way. On the other side you can mate with a female (not because you feel love for her, but just to produce a human baby), have a child, grab it from her and try to raise "normaly" helped by a same *** male "husband" (wondering about who is the man and who is the woman... but that's another part of the story). Please keep me informed of the child breeding results, just for the record. Who knows? Maybe the new ******/gay parents era will begin from Finland (according your statement above).

Same answer to Kaapeli (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=9232) too. The fact we do not agree doesn't mean we didn't have a productive dialog. I think that a productive dialog is the only thing ME and YOU can have.


:) :) :)

[ed316]

I have no problem with it. If they are loving, caring, and want to raise a child I'm all for it.

[ZaakM433]

Parenting ability should be the key factor in allowing adoption, not ****** orientation.

Same *** couples adopting children should be considered child abuse. Therefore same *** parents cannot by definition be good parents.

Wow, I guess this really isnt an issue after all!

[Nick_Karatzides]

I have no problem with it. If they are loving, caring, and want to raise a child I'm all for it.ed316 (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=12921), correct me if I'm wrong but I assume that you (as most of people) were born and raised into a "father with mother" family model. Right? If not, please excuse me - didn't mean to enter any private info.

QUESTION: Would you honestly prefer to be raised by two MEN parents (possibly gay) family? Would you have any problem by knowing these two MEN parents are gays and practice homo****** relations?

XTRA QUESTION: Would you honestly give YOUR child to be raised by a two MEN parents (possibly gay) couple?

How can you say "have no problem with it, if they are loving, & caring"? I believe that the parents ****** orientation is a very important factor. What if one or both parents (straight or gay - doesn't matter) would also had PRIVATE ****** relations with goats, sheep, dead corps, 8yo boys etc? That's the meaning of total madness & disorientation! Should we also say "have no problem with it, if they are loving, & caring"? Can't we all see? Where is this damned "parential model" we all looking for?

...just wondering.

Why we all freak out when we hear or watch on the TV news for people who raped 8yo boys, or had *** with animals or even worst practiced canibalism? Who makes "OK" the model of a man having *** with another man and "NOT OK" the model of a man having *** with an 8yo kid? Or an animal? Or a dead body (human or animal)? Is that because the kids or the animals or the dead corps will not talk? Damned! They are ALL freaky & out of human mind discusting!!!

Why to act like as adopting homo******ity as a "pretty" or "in-fashion"? Why to consider as "cool" for a gay man to stick his d1ck into another man arss? Why (if so cool about it) doesn't he stick it into a car gas exaust tube too? Why the second (having *** with a car gas exaust tube) is considered as an absolute "stupidity" and the first (having gay ***) is considered as "cool" or "trendy" or "in-fashion"?

Same *** human couples ARE gay couples - that's a fact! Same *** parent family model (gay couples) IS and SHOULD BE considered (according to me) as a human mind disorientation. Kids growing up into this specific model of family will be propably the testbeds of our human stupidity. Think about it before comiting the ultimate crash on a kid's mind. As for the last, I think that there is no need for someone to be a human phycology specialist to have a clue.

[signatory]

I have no problem with it. If they are loving, caring, and want to raise a child I'm all for it.

It's such a non-issue anyway. For gay couples who want kids, adoption will be the last thing to try. And if they do, the chance of finding a kid is near 0.

Been legal 2 years in Sweden but only 1 request has been filed and it was turned down like many hundreds of requests for straight couples each year. Does that mean there's no children living with gay couples? Of course not. It just didn't happen with a adoption.

[ed316]

ed316 (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=12921), correct me if I'm wrong but I assume that you (as most of people) were born and raised into a "father with mother" family model. Right? If not, please excuse me - didn't mean to enter any private info.

QUESTION: Would you honestly prefer to be raised by two MEN parents (possibly gay) family? Would you have any problem by knowing these two MEN parents are gays and practice homo****** relations?

XTRA QUESTION: Would you honestly give YOUR child to be raised by a two MEN parents (possibly gay) couple?

How can you say "have no problem with it, if they are loving, & caring"? I believe that the parents ****** orientation is a very important factor. What if one or both parents (straight or gay - doesn't matter) would also had ****** relations with goats, sheep, dead corps etc? Should we also say "have no problem with it, if they are loving, & caring"? Where is this damned "parent model" we all looking for?

...just asking.


Yes my parents were heteros.

Question 1: I would not have a problem if I knew they would raise/good parenting and love my child like it was thier blood.

Question 2: Because I believe ****** orientation doesn't define if a person is "good" or "bad"/

****** orientation? Do parents have *** infront of thier kids? Do kids know what thier parents do behind close doors?

You give me a good "parental model". I don't discriminate just because someone is gay.



Why we all freak out when we hear or watch on the TV news for people who raped 8yo boys, or had *** with animals or even worst practiced canibalism? Who makes "OK" the model of a man having *** with another man and "NOT OK" the model of a man having *** with an 8yo kid? Or an animal? Or a dead body (human or animal)? Is that because the kids or the animals or the dead corps will not talk? Damned! They are ALL freaky & out of human mind discusting!!!

Comparing Homo******ity to beastiality and pedophilia is dumb. They are not the same.



Why to act like as adopting homo******ity as a "pretty" or "in-fashion"? Why to consider as "cool" for a gay man to stick his d1ck into another man arss? Why (if so cool about it) doesn't he stick it into a car gas exaust tube too? Why the second (having *** with a car gas exaust tube) is considered as an absolute "stupidity" and the first (having gay ***) is considered as "cool" or "trendy" or "in-fashion"?

What's you obssesion with what they do in thier private lives. As long as they are not breaking the law I don't care.

Same *** human couples ARE gay couples - that's a fact! Same *** parent family model (gay couples) IS and SHOULD BE considered (according to me) as a human mind disorientation. Kids growing up into this specific model of family will be propably the testbeds of our human stupidity. Think about it before comiting the ultimate crash on a kid's mind. As for the last, I think that there is no need for someone to be a human phycology specialist to have a clue.



Well Being of Children Raised by Gay and Lesbian Parents
American Academy of Pediatrics

Do children raised in a gay or lesbian home have problems with school, personal and social relationships? What are the implications of marriage for these children? Those questions were discussed during a special session at the American Academy of Pediatrics’ (AAP) National Conference and Exhibition.

Ellen Perrin, MD, FAAP, conducted a review of many research studies following children raised in gay and lesbian families. Several studies compared outcomes for these children with those raised in a hetero****** environment. The studies evaluated parent-child relationships, self-esteem and psychological adjustment for each group of children. Information from more than 15 studies involving more than 500 children shows that raising children in a same-*** household did not affect the children’s self-esteem, gender identity, or risk of psychological problems. In fact, the studies found that children of single parents often have higher stress levels, more discipline problems, and more trouble with social adjustment when compared to children raised by lesbian couples. “Overall, there is little to no difference between children raised in a two-parent homo****** or hetero****** environment,” said Dr. Perrin. Because child-rearing and family dynamics is a personal issue, and in order to gain a more personal perspective, Dr. Perrin invited two gay parents and a teen child of gay parents to add their personal insight to this educational session.





Research: Kids of gay parents fare at least as well as others
http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/top/index.php?ntid=103362&ntpid=3




The American Psychological Association takes the position that there is no empirical evidence that gay adults are unfit parents on the basis of their ****** orientation.
A review of research suggests that the development, adjustment and well-being of children with lesbian and gay parents are not markedly different from those of children with hetero****** parents, according to the association.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4258763.html

[Nick_Karatzides]

Yes my parents were heteros.

Question 1: I would not have a problem if I knew they would raise/good parenting and love my child like it was thier blood.

Question 2: Because I believe ****** orientation doesn't define if a person is "good" or "bad"

****** orientation? Do parents have *** infront of thier kids? Do kids know what thier parents do behind close doors? You give me a good "parental model". I don't discriminate just because someone is gay.Your opinion about if ****** orientation does or doesn't define if a person is "good" or "bad" is also accepted by me. But we are not just talking about beeing good or bad. We are talking about growing up a human beeing. Giving birth, breeding, educating, taking good care. All the package!

As said before, how can you say "have no problem with it, if they are loving, & caring"? I think that the parents ****** orientation is a very important factor. Imagine one or both parents (straight or gay - doesn't matter) would also had PRIVATE ****** relations with goats, sheep, dead corps, 8yo boys etc? Should we also say "have no problem with it, if they are loving, & caring"? Why to freak out when we hear or watch on the TV news for people who raped 8yo boys, or had *** with animals or even worst practiced canibalism? Who is the one to decide that it is an "ACCEPTED" model of a man having *** with another man (for example) and "NOT ACCEPTED" for the model of a man having *** with an 8yo kid? Or an animal? Or a dead body (human or animal)? Damned! They are ALL freaky & out of human mind discusting!!!

My friend ed316 (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=12921), why we should always act like it's OK to adopt homo******ity as a "pretty" or "in-fashion" thing? Why to consider as "cool" for a gay man to stick his d1ck into another man arss? Why (if so cool about it) doesn't he stick it into a car gas exaust tube too? Why the second (having *** with a car gas exaust tube) is considered as an absolute "stupidity" and the first (having gay ***) is considered as "cool" or "trendy" or "in-fashion"?

As said before, same *** human couples ARE gay couples - that's a fact! Gay parent family model IS and SHOULD BE considered as a human mind disorientation. Kids growing up into this specific model of family will be propably the testbeds of our human stupidity.




Comparing Homo******ity to beastiality and pedophilia is dumb. They are not the same.Says WHO? For me, they are the same.




What's you obssesion with what they do in thier private lives. As long as they are not breaking the law I don't care.As far as I know, having *** with a goat is NOT against the law. Some stupid people around the world may even prefer it than making love to a woman. Do you still don't care if the potential parent of your child (for example) is a "goat maniac"? My friend ed316 (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=12921), does this disoriented "potential parent" still looking OK for beeing a father or mother? Think not!



I hope my opinion was not insulting to anybody. So, I should stop for a while to let other MP.net members to speak too.

[ed316]

Who said being gay is "cool" and "in"? I don't discriminate against people because they are gay. If they are good people and are not breaking any laws I fine with it. Everyone is different and we walk different paths in life.

[signatory]

Why to consider as "cool" for a gay man to stick his d1ck into another man arss?

There's something very ironic about this.

Nick_Karatzides
Location: Greece

[Aerosoul]

Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, because straight parents only raise straight children.

[Nick_Karatzides]

Why to consider as "cool" for a gay man to stick his d1ck into another man arss?There's something very ironic about this.

Nick_Karatzides
Location: GreeceTrying to be "smart" or begging to hear something also "smart" for your country (Sweeden if not mistaken) too?

PS. Check THIS (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2029351&postcount=34) previous post and get the answer you need "Mr. smartie". No heart feelings for you too - just like InetWarrior (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=8694). OK?


:) :) :)

[signatory]

Trying to be "smart" or begging to hear something also "smart" for your country (Sweeden if not mistaken) too?

PS. Check THIS (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2029351&postcount=34) previous post and get the answer you need "Mr. smartie". No heart feelings for you too - just like InetWarrior (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=8694). OK?


:) :) :)


What's a Sweeden ? Your English is all Greek to me.

[Nick_Karatzides]

Why to consider as "cool" for a gay man to stick his d1ck into another man arss?There's something very ironic about this.

Nick_Karatzides
Location: GreeceTrying to be "smart" or begging to hear something also "smart" for your country (Sweeden if not mistaken) too?

PS. Check THIS (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2029351&postcount=34) previous post and get the answer you need "Mr. smartie". No heart feelings for you too - just like InetWarrior (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=8694). OK?What's a Sweeden?Found THIS (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/image.php?u=9466&dateline=1150578002&type=profile) into your MP.net public profile. Aren't you from Sweeden? Sorry if mistaken.




Your English is all Greek to me.It's obvious! I'm Greek :)

[CPL Trevoga]

I'm all for gays adapting children, as long as there is no "gay" marriage.
Many kids grow up with families with one mommy or daddy or step parents. I don't think there would be a problem with two mommies or daddies. It's much worse to be an orphant.

[seraosha]

How many kids are raised as wards of the state that could go to loving, caring parents? Who cares if the paents are gay/lesbian, it means nothing compared to a child being raised in an institutional environment.

Be consistant in your bigotry folks...atleast they wouldn't be a drain on your tax dollars, right?

[Belrick]

I think that hetro couples should be given preference to adopting any child because as a parent i know 100% for a fact that good mothers and good fathers compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses as parents. Father + Mother = greater than the sum of the two parts.

Though note i'm not saying that same *** couples cannot be anything other than great parents but all that matters is the adopted children and giving them the best possible odds.

[Aerosoul]

I will agree Belrick, I think there likely is a difference in being raised by a loving mother and father than two male figures or two female figures. But gay couples should be allowed to adopt, as well. To say they should not simply demonstrates homphobia, in my opinion.

[Thor]

Should same *** couples be allowed to adopt
You got the question all wrong. Adults rights don't count when it comes to children.

The question is: Do children have a right to both of their parents? I'd say they do.

And do children have a right to be spared of abnormal ******ity in their upbringing. I'd say they do.

[Quietscheentchen]

imho they should be allowed to adopt children. as long as they are good, loving and responsible parents, i don't see any problems.

[AgentX]

Queers should not be allowed to adopt. They're usually too busy exploring
their weird ****** life-style, to be worrying and caring for the children.

[LaoSexMachine]

Queers should not be allowed to adopt. They're usually too busy exploring
their weird ****** life-style, to be worrying and caring for the children.

Spolken like a true zombie.

[Kaapeli]

Queers should not be allowed to adopt. They're usually too busy exploring
their weird ****** life-style, to be worrying and caring for the children.

You seem to have an insight to gay life that we others don't.
So tell us how their wierd ****** lifestyle differs from straight peoples'?

[AgentX]

Spolken like a true zombie.
Well, I hope you're donating your first-born child to two happy redneck Brokeback Mountaineers, then?

[dangerclose]

You seem to have an insight to gay life that we others don't.
So tell us how their wierd ****** lifestyle differs from straight peoples'?


Well two straight guys don't suck each other's ****s for one thing.

[NewsMan]

All I know is that the institution of marriage in this country is hollow as it comes for most people. Divorce is ridiculous, which makes for tons of single-parent families. I can't see how gay marriage or adoption or whatever could possibly make it worse.

[LaoSexMachine]

Well, I hope you're donating your first-born child to two happy redneck Brokeback Mountaineers, then?

People who tend to talk trash about gay people are hiding something? Are you gay?

[AgentX]

You seem to have an insight to gay life that we others don't.
So tell us how their wierd ****** lifestyle differs from straight peoples'?
It appears that you were sleeping in your biology classes in school?

[Kaapeli]

It appears that you were sleeping in your biology classes in school?

I must have been. Can't remember any classes on wierd ****** gay lifestyle.

[daily666]

Don't have a problem with that. As long as they're caring people it's ok with me. I'd rather be raised by loving and caring gay parents than some sick marriage, with weak basis like we see everywhere. First of all the adoption should be given with strict rules and legal issues, and everything will be fine. I'd even bet that a child raised by two responsible gays (or lesbians) musn't be homo****** like it's "parents".

[AgentX]

People who tend to talk trash about gay people are hiding something? Are you gay?
"People who tend to talk trash about terrorists are hiding something. Are they terrorists?"
"People who tend to talk trash about Jews are hiding something. Are they Jew?"
"People who tend to talk trash about religions are hiding something. Are they religious?"

No. You got it all upside down.
1. People talking trash about terrorists are not terrorists themselves. They're ordinary people and Governments.
2. People talking trash about Jews are not Jews themselves. They're usually Christian or Muslim.
3. People talking trash about religions are not religious themselves. They're Atheists or Agnostics.

Likewise,
4. People talking trash about queers are not queers themselves. I'm a straight guy.

:roll:

[LaoSexMachine]

4. People talking trash about queers are not queers themselves. I'm a straight guy.

:roll:


Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

[AgentX]

I must have been. Can't remember any classes on wierd ****** gay lifestyle.
You were, indeed! Otherwise, you would have learned about natural ******ity.
A man isn't supposed to be sticking his genitals inside an opening of the large intestine.

[AgentX]

Whatever makes you sleep better at night.
Yeah, whatever! Think of a kid who would behave and think exactly like you, if his mum was a guy.

[Quietscheentchen]

A man isn't supposed to be sticking his genitals inside an opening of the large intestine.

it' not like that's just a gay speciality, you know...

[Thor]

I must have been. Can't remember any classes on wierd ****** gay lifestyle.
Don't be a smartass. We all know that Tom of Finland is an essential part of the ****** teachings in finnish schools.

[Kaapeli]

You were, indeed! Otherwise, you would have learned about natural ******ity.

Sure. But how about that wierd gay lifestyle you were talking about? Tell us about that. Start with the part that makes them unable to raise children.


A man isn't supposed to be sticking his genitals inside an opening of the large intestine.


Well two straight guys don't suck each other's ****s for one thing.

You know what's strange? Homophobes obsession about the details of gay ***. I mean I never hear openly gay guys describing their ****** practices in any way but I get very detailed descriptions about anal *** and guys sucking ****s from guys like you who claim they are straight. Interesting.

[LaoSexMachine]

Yeah, whatever! Think of a kid who would behave and think exactly like you, if his mum was a guy.

So by that a kid who is raise by straight person is more ****e to hate? What happened in your childhood? You seem to come out and start talking ******ly before a mentioning a child's welfare.

[dangerclose]

Sure. But how about that wierd gay lifestyle you were talking about? Tell us about that. Start with the part that makes them unable to raise children.





You know what's strange? Homophobes obsession about the details of gay ***. I mean I never hear openly gay guys describing their ****** practices in any way but I get very detailed descriptions about anal *** and guys sucking ****s from guys like you who claim they are straight. Interesting.

What's strange is you thinking that behavior is normal.

[Thor]

But how about that wierd gay lifestyle you were talking about? Tell us about that. Start with the part that makes them unable to raise children..
The problem is that people like you are more concerned about homo****** adults rights than the welfare of children.

[Kaapeli]

The problem is that people like you are more concerned about homo****** adults rights than the welfare of children.

Wrong. When I see some research on and evidence that homo******s are bad parents I will definately be against them having any kids.
Until then I don't see a problem.
Personally I was raised by a single parent for most of my childhood and I can't say that I should have been taken away from that parent to a male-female family "for my own good". Not having two parents around wasn't an infringement of my rights in any way and I don't see how having two parents of the same *** would have been either.

There are so many orphans in this world who would love to have parents. One or two, men or women.

[Thor]

You have a problem with reading comprehension?

It's not about the parental abilities of homo****** adults it's about what's in the best interest of children.

Children have a right to both a mother and a father. And children have a right to be spared of abnormal ******ity in their upbringing.

[Kaapeli]

You have a problem with reading comprehension?

It's not about the parental abilities of homo****** adults it's about what's in the best interest of children.

And as I already told you: when I see evidence that children's interests are harmed by single parents or parents of the same *** I will change my view.


Children have a right to both a mother and a father.

Now this is where I have to disagree. Single parents or parents of same *** can provide a perfectly happy and full childhood.
Should we take stand that children have to have a mother and a father we would also have to take kids away from single parents. This I cannot agree with.


And children have a right to be spared of abnormal ******ity in their upbringing.

Children don't need to have ******ity of any kind in the upbrinning.

[daily666]

You have a problem with reading comprehension?

It's not about the parental abilities of homo****** adults it's about what's in the best interest of children.

Children have a right to both a mother and a father. And children have a right to be spared of abnormal ******ity in their upbringing.

That's an interesting statement considering you've got "Gay Perry" as your avatar

http://www.celluloid-dreams.de/content/images/kritiken-filmbilder/kiss-kiss-bang-bang/kiss-kiss-bang-bang-2.jpg

[emiljoe]

NO WAY! Homo******s will only pervert the mind of a child.

[Luno]

NO WAY! Homo******s will only pervert the mind of a child.

{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-
O RLY?

[daily666]

NO WAY! Homo******s will only pervert the mind of a child.

:cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

[LRPV]

NO! Think of the child you selfish shirt-lifters.

[AgentX]

You know what's strange? Homophobes obsession about the details of gay ***. I mean I never hear openly gay guys describing their ****** practices in any way but I get very detailed descriptions about anal *** and guys sucking ****s from guys like you who claim they are straight. Interesting.
Not true. What's more interesting is some seemingly straight people openly
fighting for the rights of queers. What's next - you want to support rapists
too, citing the same reason that by nature some are and will always be
rapists? And that rape is fairly common in apes and monkeys? The same
argument holds valid in case of serial killers too.

Since you're so ignorant about what such a 'couple' does in the bedroom,
do you think they only do some handshaking (as in office), say good night
to each other, and then go to their separate rooms to sleep? They're more
like "Brothers in arms", eh?

Now let me ask you a question - why do you support queers?


So by that a kid who is raise by straight person is more ****e to hate? What happened in your childhood? You seem to come out and start talking ******ly before a mentioning a child's welfare.
No, but he knows right from wrong and that it is not normal to accept
whatever theory is thrown in favor of abnormal people.


it' not like that's just a gay speciality, you know...
Yep. But it's abnormal in either case. Irony is that both queers and rapes
in prisons are sort of "accepted" or tolerated by the society and media.

[Holycrusader]

People who tend to talk trash about gay people are hiding something? Are you gay?

I think talking nasty things about gay's is gay...

[Kaapeli]

Not true. What's more interesting is some seemingly straight people openly
fighting for the rights of queers.

Not fighting really (would be a waste of time here), just discussing.


What's next - you want to support rapists
too, citing the same reason that by nature some are and will always be
rapists? And that rape is fairly common in apes and monkeys? The same
argument holds valid in case of serial killers too.

Are you comparing homo******s to rapists?


Since you're so ignorant about what such a 'couple' does in the bedroom,
do you think they only do some handshaking (as in office), say good night
to each other, and then go to their separate rooms to sleep? They're more
like "Brothers in arms", eh?

I don't care what consentual adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms. I really don't think about it that often.


Now let me ask you a question - why do you support queers?

Actually I don't as much support homo******s as I resist people who are against other people's rights.
What was it some Americans say... "I don't agree with what you're saying but I'd die for your right to say it" or something like that.


No, but he knows right from wrong and that it is not normal to accept
whatever theory is thrown in favor of abnormal people.

Abnormal? What defines as abnormal? And what's wrong with abnormal? Why should everyone fall into your definition of normal?


Yep. But it's abnormal in either case. Irony is that both queers and rapes in prisons are sort of "accepted" or tolerated by the society and media.

Again with the rapist - homo****** comparison. Are you seriously suggesting homo******ity is a crime and comparable to rape? Or should it be in your opinion?

[Fargin]

You have a problem with reading comprehension?

It's not about the parental abilities of homo****** adults it's about what's in the best interest of children.

Children have a right to both a mother and a father. And children have a right to be spared of abnormal ******ity in their upbringing.
That's why in my oppinion divorce should be outlawed, just like any other ****** practise other than ******l ***. I believe handjobs are just as dangerous to mankind's morality as sodomi and felatio is. Everytime you waste good semen, you're doing satans work.

[Quietscheentchen]

Yep. But it's abnormal in either case. Irony is that both queers and rapes
in prisons are sort of "accepted" or tolerated by the society and media.

errr...regarding the gay couples i know, it may be interesting for you that both partners agree to have a relation and love each other. i think this is quite a difference to a rape...and what is with straight couples that see this "abnormity" as a private pleasure? shall they also be not allowed to adopt children? and what is with parents that like to do it this way? shall we take their children and give them to other couples?

when i was younger, around 12-16 years old, i was quite homophobe because
1: nearly everyone else in this age was it, too
2: i thought it was cool
3: i didn't know any gays

when i learned to know some, i quickly realized that my opinion about them was media-formed shxt. no one of them acted and behaved like they like to show on tv. they were amazingly normal. in a few cases, i didn't even know about their preference till they told it to me.

so, as a straight guy, i am still for the possible adoption of children by responsible gay couples.

[Hollis]

I think that hetro couples should be given preference to adopting any child because as a parent i know 100% for a fact that good mothers and good fathers compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses as parents. Father + Mother = greater than the sum of the two parts.

Though note i'm not saying that same *** couples cannot be anything other than great parents but all that matters is the adopted children and giving them the best possible odds.


So far this is the best expression in this thread. NO two people are exactly the same. What can be said about one group can usually be said about the others.

There are no guarantees in life. Ideally Children should have a mom and dad, But that does not always happen even with good reasons.

Sometimes the next best option is as good as it is going to get. Familys are better than "group living centers". Group living centers are better than living under a bridge. even living under the bridge is better than some other choices.

As Belrick stated, "Giving the Them (children) the best possible odds"

[seraosha]

I wonder what the ratio is of responders who are actually parents, and not interweb commandos spouting off?

Is homophobia so rampant that some believe that somehow kids will be "turned gay" by being raised by gay parents? Then please explain to me the reason for all the gays that were raised by straight (man+woman) parents?

Sure, I can support straight parents being given an "inside angle" on adoption, but only as one factor among others...such as income, stability, a nurturing environment, etc.

And yes, I've been a single parent for years, and sometimes question the validity of a family needing a mother and father to be "whole", though if taken in the abstract it does make sense. Then again, if you knew my Ex, you wouldn't let her near your houseplants, much less children.:roll:

[Geezah]

The Wife and me do not have our own biological child/children yet, but we share the responsbilty of raising my Wife's cousins daughter, the in-laws have full custody.
She spends half of the week there and the other half at our house, and it is the half that coincides with her tumble and cheer class, soccer which has ended for the year and dance class when she was in until she decided she wanted to do tumble and cheer.
She has been in our lives since December of 02, after we all went done to children services in November of that year to get her out of foster care.
The wife and me had only been married a few months, and as the in-laws passed the background check they were given temporary custody.
It has been an uphill battle, and she went back to her mum for a short time period, as children services always try and place a child back with the mother. When she went back to her mother my Wife took it extremely hard as her mother is a loser, who would prefer to live in the bad areas of Dayton, with the low life scum.
It was only a matter of time before she screwed up and she did, her publicly apointed lawyer suggested she sign her rights over and she did and now we can focus on her growing into productive law abiding adult.
I would do anything for her, just like her Mimi, Sisi and Papa. She flies with her Mimi and Sisi to Florida next week to go to Disney, this will be her 2nd time to Disney and her 3rd trip to Florida, along with her trips to Texas, Sanduskey, OH and Tennesee(I think there are a few others that I can't think of at the moment).
She will be 6 in December, so all this harping on about whether or not homo******s should be allowed to adopt, well, I think straight couples should come first as there are plenty of straight couples that would love to give a child what they deserve/need but are often turned away as they do not earn enough.

[*^*]

Of course they shouldn't.

[Durandal]

Considering that half the people posting here are kids I find many of the opinions, well, silly.

My new wife and I started the adoption process a month or so before we got married. When I say started, I mean research and started attending meetings at local adoption groups. As we are in our first year of marriage there are FEW, very few (2) countries that will let us adopt.

Which is cool. Knowing that you are sending a child off to a stable family is a good thing. After our meeting the first thing we are doing is investing money for the high costs of adoption outside the country (which is far cheaper than adopting inside the country) then we will be contacting a home review agency that comes in and reviews your home, asks you questions about your lives, and sees that the home is a safe and healthy home. We both agreed that I will not try to hide my firearms, since they are under lock and key at all times and to do so would be lying. After that we have to choose a country and and an agency. After that it gets fuzzy to me since Christie has been doing more of the research there. I know some of the requirements from other countries. China's is different than South Korea's and Guatemala's is different than Ecuador. Every nation has a different average cost. A lot of work and a lot of time goes into this and costs range from about 15K to as high as 30K for the average family to adopt.

Adopting does two things.

It provides, hopefully, a home for a child that NEEDS a home.

It provides a child to a family that wants to raise a child and give it all the love they would their own.

I see a lot of arguments here about the nature of things, the natural order, god's will and so on. None of which really mean anything. You have a hetero-couple who cannot have children. Is this god's will? Is it natural law to not have children then? Many arguments that I see here I find offensive because they apply to C and I, which is not cool. She cannot have children. We could extract an egg and I could give sperm and they could inseminate the egg, but then we have to find a woman to carry the child for us. This is not something we want at all. We want to help another child somewhere in this world, hopefully two or three.

Yet according to some of you and your "logic" we should not have children. We should not adopt.

There are far more children out there TO ADOPT than there are families that CAN ADOPT. I have met several homo****** couples that have adopted children. One I wasn't to keen about but the others seemed, well normal. Nice and stable. I am not too sure what normal is, but I think its growing up not worrying about being abused, being able to play with other kids, and not worrying about disease, illness, or starving.

Who cares if the parents are gay, single moms or dads, or straight, so long as the do the job right.

I think that is all that matters.

[Son of Damian]

I have no probelm with gays abopting children. If you were an orphan would you rather live at the orphanage until your 18 with out ever having any parents, or, would you rather be adopted by a gay couple that can give you a loving home like all kids deserve?

Considering how the world seems to have gone mad with intolerance and hate, who better to teach younger generations about tolerance and acceptance than a gay couple?

[Fargin]

Geezah and Durandal it's nice to hear of a personal account, I wish you good luck with both current and comming families.

[*^*]

I have no probelm with gays abopting children. If you were an orphan would you rather live at the orphanage until your 18 with out ever having any parents, or, would you rather be adopted by a gay couple that can give you a loving home like all kids deserve?

I would sure preffer to stay at the orphanage than get "a loving home" from a couple of perverts. :cantbeli:

[Durandal]

I would sure preffer to stay at the orphanage than get "a loving home" from a couple of perverts. :cantbeli:

You mean a straight couple that dresses in leather with body piercings and the woman gets her husband in the @ss after the swap with another couple? Or two people that love each other and have a pretty normal household with a nice income, a participate in their children's lives?

[*^*]

You mean a straight couple that...

Come on. You know very well what I mean.

[Zarathustra]

No, it shouldn't be allowed. Hopefully never will be either.

[Durandal]

Come on. You know very well what I mean.

No, I do not.

[Durandal]

No, it shouldn't be allowed. Hopefully never will be either.

Too bad then, lot of places allow it. :)

[AgentX]

Are you comparing homo******s to rapists?
Yes, I am. But, it's more of a behavioral comparison. If the argument, that
- "homo******ity is common in other animal species", is put forward in defense
of homo******s, why shouldn't rapists reference the same behaviour in animals
in their defense?


I don't care what consentual adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms. I really don't think about it that often.
Neither do I, but a line must be drawn between the expected normal and
and abnormal behaviour. Otherwise, there would be, in fact likely to be, a
lot of problems in families and society.

If you don't know, consensual adults have commited suicide, murder and
cannibalism, which according to you should not be of any concern for others
and law, for it would be an invasion of their right to privacy?

You may want to read more on "consensual" crimes, all committed by matured
"adults" in their consciousness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensual_crime


Actually I don't as much support homo******s as I resist people who are against other people's rights.
Speaking against an abnormal and potentially dangerous behaviour is not the
same as taking away fundamental rights of people. Who knows, maybe there
will even be a "Right to Murder and Mayhem" if the sane continue to tolerate
the insane!


Abnormal? What defines as abnormal? And what's wrong with abnormal? Why should everyone fall into your definition of normal?
Again, what wrong about raping or killing somebody, particularly if one enjoys
doing it? What's wrong with beating the hell out of somebody at will? What's
wrong with necrophilia or cannibalism? What's wrong with beheading people
or skinning them alive? What's wrong with having *** with a severed head?

No, I've not gone insane. These are only a few of the behavioral descriptions
of the insane criminals. Are they normal? Should these things be allowed and
accepted as "normal or sane" behaviour? I don't have enough knowlegde of
human psychology to describe the clinical aspects of normalcy, but I do
recommend that you read some texts or consult a professional for an insight
on normal/abnormal behaviour.


Again with the rapist - homo****** comparison. Are you seriously suggesting homo******ity is a crime and comparable to rape? Or should it be in your opinion?
Homo******ity may or may not be a crime. I rightly compare a queer with a
rapist, on the ground that both are a deviation in normal human behaviour,
as put forward by the sociologists and psychologists.

In my opinion, homo******ity is an abnormal behaviour, and should not be
accepted, supported or encouraged by the society or the media. That said,
I surely wouldn't go about beating or killing a homo****** at sight. But they
must not be entertained.


errr...regarding the gay couples i know, it may be interesting for you that both partners agree to have a relation and love each other. i think this is quite a difference to a rape...and what is with straight couples that see this "abnormity" as a private pleasure? shall they also be not allowed to adopt children? and what is with parents that like to do it this way? shall we take their children and give them to other couples?
My definition of "abnormal behaviour" doesn't exclude straight couples that
practise strange things for 'guilt pleasure' or just for getting the kicks by
enjoying something tagged as taboo. We're already witnessing ***-change
operations, torture and brutality as ****** pleasure, and a load of other
abominal and insane practises. I don't know what future holds for us, as things
like these become increasingly common and enjoyed by the masses. No doubt,
we're slowly turning into a society with totally unpredictable changes in
human behaviour, and it doesn't look good.

A few links for those who care to read:
http://www.healthyplace.com/news_2006/human_behavior.asp
http://www.purgatory.net/merits/abnormal.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysfunctional

[Mobydog]

If gays/Lesbos are allowed to adopt a child.. very likely that child will be either gays or Lesbo as well. I mean, that child would have a hell of a confused growing years... because he/she will find same *** relationship as normal.

How will the gay couple dress that child ? One of the Gay couple would be more on the feminine side (Usually).. and their taste of clothes are usually exceptional... That is I can usually tell a obvious gays by looking the way he dresses.. heteros is another matter.

[Durandal]

If gays/Lesbos are allowed to adopt a child.. very likely that child will be either gays or Lesbo as well. I mean, that child would have a hell of a confused growing years... because he/she will find same *** relationship as normal.

How will the gay couple dress that child ? One of the Gay couple would be more on the feminine side (Usually).. and their taste of clothes are usually exceptional... That is I can usually tell a obvious gays by looking the way he dresses.. heteros is another matter.

Gays dress well and heteros do not.

Wow, such insight...

[praetorian6]

If gays/Lesbos are allowed to adopt a child.. very likely that child will be either gays or Lesbo as well.

What about children that grew up from straight familys to become gay? If, by your reasoning, children grew up to take their parent's ****** preferences, then there never would have been gays to begin with. :roll:

[Hollis]

Just when this thread took a turn to sanity and maturity....

Mobydog....... comes up with more adolescent nonsense.

[ocean000]

I don`t think it is a good idea to allow gay couples adopting children, but not because of ridiculous reasons like "the kids became homos,too". In my opinion a kid needs the different love-feeling as well as the different educational styles of a man and a woman (=mom and dad), otherwise it misses something.

But it is not a secret that some gay couples are indeed better parents than some straight morons who are not able to control their own lifes, not to mention that of their children.

[Mobydog]

Gays dress well and heteros do not.

Wow, such insight...No, the word I used is exceptional.. meaning they usually dressed up weird or way too trendy. Heteros, I can't always tell.

[Mobydog]

What about children that grew up from straight familys to become gay?Chances are higher if their parents are both gays.. don't you think ?


If, by your reasoning, children grew up to take their parent's ****** preferences, then there never would have been gays to begin with. :roll:You know I didn't mean that... I'm talking about unnecessary exposure... anyone can be influenced by their brought-up and peers. To let you know, I didn't pick up grass and picking up hookers on my own... my peers had lots of influence in it... BTW I'm cleaned now.

[szr]

Chances are higher if their parents are both gays.. don't you think ?

You know I didn't mean that... I'm talking about unnecessary exposure... anyone can be influenced by their brought-up and peers. To let you know, I didn't pick up grass and picking up hookers on my own... my peers had lots of influence in it... BTW I'm cleaned now.
Ahahaha ignorance is ****ing bliss, I know.

Being gay has NOTHING to do with being around gays. Being gay is a biological roll-of-the-dice that happens at conception along with all of your other biological traits that will characterize you through life. Fact is gay couples can raise straight kids (if the kid is straight to begin with, he'll stay straight), and straight couples give birth to, and raise gays kids (if he's born gay, he won't become straight by being raised by straight parents).

More science and less of this voodoo "gayism is contagious!" crap, please.

[Durandal]

Chances are higher if their parents are both gays.. don't you think ?

Studies prove otherwise. Though, chances are they are probably a lot more tolerant of homo******s, than children growing up in households that teach them "fags" are going to hell.

Can't imagine why. :roll:


You know I didn't mean that... I'm talking about unnecessary exposure... anyone can be influenced by their brought-up and peers. To let you know, I didn't pick up grass and picking up hookers on my own... my peers had lots of influence in it... BTW I'm cleaned now.

So, wait, your parents smoked weed and your mom was a hooker?

Nothing better than discussing social issues of good parenting with a former drug addict and misogynist. rofl

[Mobydog]

Ahahaha ignorance is ****ing bliss, I know.

Being gay has NOTHING to do with being around gays. Being gay is a biological roll-of-the-dice that happens at conception along with all of your other biological traits that will characterize you through life. Fact is gay couples can raise straight kids (if the kid is straight to begin with, he'll stay straight), and straight couples give birth to, and raise gays kids (if he's born gay, he won't become straight by being raised by straight parents).

More science and less of this voodoo "gayism is contagious!" crap, please.I'm not ignorant.. I know some gays are biologically inherent... but I still believe that character, behaviour can be influenced by peers.

I stand on my own believes...

[Mobydog]

So, wait, your parents smoked weed and your mom was a hooker?

Nothing better than discussing social issues of good parenting with a former drug addict and misogynist. roflI'm talking about my friends, and in fact, yes my both of my parents do smoke weed in their earliers years.. and I've seen it too. So does my elder brother.

On the statement that my mom is a hooker... how's that. Can't I mean that my Father and Brothers went whoring ?? You, Durandal, son of a Fvcking whore bastard....

[Quietscheentchen]

My definition of "abnormal behaviour" doesn't exclude straight couples that
practise strange things for 'guilt pleasure' or just for getting the kicks by
enjoying something tagged as taboo. We're already witnessing ***-change
operations, torture and brutality as ****** pleasure, and a load of other
abominal and insane practises. I don't know what future holds for us, as things
like these become increasingly common and enjoyed by the masses. No doubt,
we're slowly turning into a society with totally unpredictable changes in
human behaviour, and it doesn't look good.


so what do you want to do against "abnormal behaving" straight couples? how do you want to sort them out? install little cameras in the bedrooms? i guess that you want some new experiences in your wedded life after several years. what is so bad about this?

i see it this way: a and b have fun with each other, their definition of "fun" may be strange for others, but they both enjoy it without any pressure from their partner, both agree to have their little games. no third person gets harmed, neither physical nor psychical.
honestly, i don't see any problem.

[AgentX]

i see it this way: a and b have fun with each other, their definition of "fun" may be strange for others, but they both enjoy it without any pressure from their partner, both agree to have their little games. no third person gets harmed, neither physical nor psychical.
honestly, i don't see any problem.
Let's change your story a bit. A and B are bored individuals. B is a known
homo****** and both are interested in bizarre (mutilation etc) ****** activities.
One day, A decides to mutilate, kill and eat someone. B puts forward himself
for the act. Note that it's all a 'consensual' act, with no third person harmed.

For a more graphic description - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes
Another consensual act with no third parties harmed or affected in any way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Lopatka

I do see a problem with abnormal ****** behaviour and (according to you)
"consensual private acts where no third person is harmed". You still don't
want to accept that such persons are not exactly "normal" or "sane"?

Humans are beyond any hope.

[Quietscheentchen]

Let's change your story a bit. A and B are bored individuals. B is a known
homo****** and both are interested in bizarre (mutilation etc) ****** activities.
One day, A decides to mutilate, kill and eat someone. B puts forward himself
for the act. Note that it's all a 'consensual' act, with no third person harmed.

For a more graphic description - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes
Another consensual act with no third parties harmed or affected in any way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Lopatka

I do see a problem with abnormal ****** behaviour and (according to you)
"consensual private acts where no third person is harmed". You still don't
want to accept that such persons are not exactly "normal" or "sane"?

Humans are beyond any hope.

i am quite aware about the meiwes-case since it happened in my country. and indeed, those things could be a problem.
so let's change the story once more: a and b do not harm each other in a way that could threaten physis or psyche of one of the partners.

but i don't get why you bring up these things. do you think that cannibalism and things around that are more common in gay relationships?

[seraosha]

Thanks for sharing real life examples of adoption, Durandel.
I appreciate your view into the real world.

I have to admit I thought there would be a few well thought out and/or informed arguments in favor of hetro-adoption vs homo-adoption, but so far only the "teh gheys r kannibals!!111" crowd seem to be participating.

[AgentX]

but i don't get why you bring up these things. do you think that cannibalism and things around that are more common in gay relationships?
I compare homo******s, murderers, rapists, cannibals and others having
abnormal ****** behavior, only because they all fall under the same category.
They're all considered abnormal acts by all sociologists and psychologists,
except for a few who are likely abnormal themselves.

From my study and understanding of human behaviour, I can say that one
abnormality easily attracts another. Therefore, homo******s are more likely
to be indulged in bizarre or cruel ****** activities, than normal couples.
Likewise, serial killers and serial rapists are also found to be practising acts
of cannibalism or mutilation. The same can be stated about drug-addicts.

[AgentX]

I have to admit I thought there would be a few well thought out and/or informed arguments in favor of hetro-adoption vs homo-adoption, but so far only the "teh gheys r kannibals!!111" crowd seem to be participating.
Well, if a homo****** couple adopting a child, which they could never procreate
themselves, looks perfectly normal to you, I'm afraid you're not prepared for
anything against this proposal at all.

Hetero******s are the only viable candidates for child-adoptation, because
such a couple could have their own child, minus the clinical problems.

Sounds reasonable enough?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

AgentX STFU about abnormal ****** behaviour. You are so off the mark it's not funny.

What I mean to say is that, what 2 or 10 (it doesn't really matter) consenting adults choose to do in the privacy of their own home does not have any effect on the ubringing of a child.

[seraosha]

Hetero******s are the only viable candidates for child-adoptation, because
such a couple could have their own child, minus the clinical problems.

Sounds reasonable enough?

Whats your criteria, besides biology? A gay man and a lesbian women can conceive a child, maybe two...then arrange for their respective partners to assist in the raising of the children. So biology is a paper tiger, at best.

Here are some ststs i found on Wiki:
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/stats_research/afcars/trends.htm

Where are all the adoptive parents for these kids?
With the advent of new fertilization methods, folks would rather spend tens of thousands having their own biological children, which is understandable...but that leaves a gap where orphans could have families caring for them.

If the varied requirements for adoptive paents are being met, financial, stable, loving...any criteria you can think of, and the only thing that stops a succesful adoption is the fact that the paents are a gay couple, then it's bigotry.

At least be honest about your bigotry, and quit trying to mask it with BS.
Cannibalism...dude, c'mon.:roll:

[Durandal]

At least be honest about your bigotry, and quit trying to mask it with BS.
Cannibalism...dude, c'mon.:roll:

Well said...

[Durandal]

On the statement that my mom is a hooker... how's that. Can't I mean that my Father and Brothers went whoring ??

I suppose that COULD mean your brother and father were misogynists. That's why it was a question and not a statement of perceived fact. p-)


You, Durandal, son of a Fvcking whore bastard....

Actually, unlike you, my family was upstanding and loving and taught me family values. I've never paid for *** or cheated on my wife. I also know who my father's father was, so *shrug*

rofl

Nice try though.

[Morboute]

I really dont see the problem with allowing gay couples to raise kids.

[AgentX]

AgentX STFU about abnormal ****** behaviour. You are so off the mark it's not funny.

What I mean to say is that, what 2 or 10 (it doesn't really matter) consenting adults choose to do in the privacy of their own home does not have any effect on the ubringing of a child.
Who are you to decide what should be acceptable, and what not? Your
opinion is only one of a few billion people, so tone your pro-gayism down.

As for the human psyche discussion, I only answered the questions raised
by fellow members. And when not, the arguments were used to counter
falsifiable statements.

I'm not going to abandon my rights to free speech, only because of a few
queers and/or pro-queers like you.

So, shut the fsck up! You and your queer statements are laughable.


Whats your criteria, besides biology? A gay man and a lesbian women can conceive a child, maybe two...then arrange for their respective partners to assist in the raising of the children. So biology is a paper tiger, at best.
First of all, don't call me a 'dude'. Two queers conceiving children together,
and then raising the kids with their queer partners is as anti-social as it can
be. It not only nullifies the whole concept of a 'family', but also raises questions
of moral values in a society. If queers were supposed to have and raise kids,
nature would have made provisions for that.

The very foundation of homo******ity is anti-family beliefs and practises.
A family consists of a hetero****** couple and kids. If queers were so uptight
about family values to adopt children, they wouldn't be queers at all.


If the varied requirements for adoptive paents are being met, financial, stable, loving...any criteria you can think of, and the only thing that stops a succesful adoption is the fact that the paents are a gay couple, then it's bigotry.
Quite the opposite! What if parents are blind or handicapped otherwise, or
convicted criminals? Isn't it bigotry enough to deny them from adopting a
child only because of their mental, physical or social problems?

Why are you so pro-queer in first place? There are enough hetero******
couples around to adopt all the orphans, if need be.


At least be honest about your bigotry, and quit trying to mask it with BS.
Cannibalism...dude, c'mon.:roll:
It you who is a true bigot. If you're a queer yourself, accept it. If you're not,
then stop supporting them blindly, that too without any bias against the
so-called homophobes. It's not like you're a UNSC member and can veto
the resolution against queers adopting children. So, quit the whining.

People like you should be sent to mental asylums with your gay friends. Hah!

[seraosha]

Agentx, all those folks laughing are not laughing with you.
But at you.

When you are old enough to be a parent, and have raised children (much less have a wife) come back to the discussion with more than hysterical nonsense.

When you have known parents (besides the folks paying your bills), when you know gays and lesbians, and when you have more experience at what it takes to be a parent, much less a good parent, your opinion will have more weight. But if your opinions are the best that the anti gay adoption folks can come up with for arguments against gays and lesbians adopting children, maybe you should stick to a topic easier to argue.

For example...chocolate is better than vanilla. Or perhaps pizza is better than lasagna..you know, something more in tune with your logical thinking process and ability?

[Hollis]

Agentx, all those folks laughing are not laughing with you.
But at you.

When you are old enough to be a parent, and have raised children (much less have a wife) come back to the discussion with more than hysterical nonsense.

When you have known parents (besides the folks paying your bills), when you know gays and lesbians, and when you have more experience at what it takes to be a parent, much less a good parent, your opinion will have more weight. But if your opinions are the best that the anti gay adoption folks can come up with for arguments against gays and lesbians adopting children, maybe you should stick to a topic easier to argue.

For example...chocolate is better than vanilla. Or perhaps pizza is better than lasagna..you know, something more in tune with your logical thinking process and ability?


Thanks for saying what you did. Looks like the pre-pubescent kiddys have raided this thread.

Where is a MOD when you need one. Their immature opinion is only over shadowed by the inability to express themselves and their use of very childish insults.

[CPL Trevoga]

Thanks for saying what you did. Looks like the pre-pubescent kiddys have raided this thread.

Where is a MOD when you need one. Their immature opinion is only over shadowed by the inability to express themselves and their use of very childish insults.

Hollis, what the hell this guy you quoted just said?

[Hollis]

Hollis, what the hell this guy you quoted just said?

He was responding to agentX, a mobydog twin. I think those two probably stays up late at night to see if hair is growing on their knuckels (old joke).

Those two are talking like some 7 year year old video gamer who believes they know all about the military/combat by playing video games and go about correcting those who have BTDT.

[Mobydog]

I suppose that COULD mean your brother and father were misogynists. That's why it was a question and not a statement of perceived fact. p-)

Actually, unlike you, my family was upstanding and loving and taught me family values. I've never paid for *** or cheated on my wife. I also know who my father's father was, so *shrug*

rofl

Nice try though.You're probably swinging both ways then. By the malicious post at the end... you must be utterly disppointing to your parent's upstanding upbringing, since you're insulting someones's family member on a wimp. Bastard...

[Mobydog]

He was responding to agentX, a mobydog twin. I think those two probably stays up late at night to see if hair is growing on their knuckels (old joke).

Those two are talking like some 7 year year old video gamer who believes they know all about the military/combat by playing video games and go about correcting those who have BTDT.Why... just because we disagree with your opinion and believes ?? and we can't air our own opinion ??

And what the hell does this thread has to do with military/combat anyway ? and you're insulting us ??

[Geezah]

You're probably swinging both ways then. By the malicious post at the end... you must be utterly disppointing to your parent's upstanding upbringing, since you're insulting someones's family member on a wimp. Bastard...


Hope you enjoyed your visit, as I do not see you sticking around very long.

[Hollis]

Hope you enjoyed your visit, as I do not see you sticking around very long.


I hear the bets are he won't make it to 100 Posts. I am amazed he sleazed through this far.

[AgentX]

Agentx, all those folks laughing are not laughing with you.
But at you.

When you are old enough to be a parent, and have raised children (much less have a wife) come back to the discussion with more than hysterical nonsense.

When you have known parents (besides the folks paying your bills), when you know gays and lesbians, and when you have more experience at what it takes to be a parent, much less a good parent, your opinion will have more weight. But if your opinions are the best that the anti gay adoption folks can come up with for arguments against gays and lesbians adopting children, maybe you should stick to a topic easier to argue.

For example...chocolate is better than vanilla. Or perhaps pizza is better than lasagna..you know, something more in tune with your logical thinking process and ability?
I don't care if someone dies of laughing too much. And, if you think that
supporting something unconventional or unorthodox is divine, and shouldn't
even be argued aginst, take your pseudo-intellectual image of yourself
someplace else.

Sure, voicing for queers is new fashion. Idiots!


He was responding to agentX, a mobydog twin. I think those two probably stays up late at night to see if hair is growing on their knuckels (old joke).

Those two are talking like some 7 year year old video gamer who believes they know all about the military/combat by playing video games and go about correcting those who have BTDT.

Mind your tongue, you arrogant puppet. What you think about someone is
no more important than what that person thinks about you. It also helps
to learn the language if you're using it to make fun of somebody. Clearly
shows your education and intellect. And how silly of you to assume that I
could be a 7-year old video gamer? Besides, I never said a word about
military. Argh!

Yeah, where are mods when stupid arrogants with little reasoning ability
like these start flaming others?

[Mobydog]

Hope you enjoyed your visit, as I do not see you sticking around very long.Very selective ain't you....

So, it's alright for one member to maliciously indirectly insults one's family with gee, and don't expect the same back ?

I'm suppose to except it and be nice ??

[Geezah]

Take the higher ground, if one person does it, doesn't mean you have to throw it back.

[seraosha]

Well anyway, obviously a provocative topic.
Good post OP, I don't see much else interesting to be posted on the subject matter, but I'll keep checking until someone past puberty posts something worth responding to, or atleast thinking about.

Personal attacks ought to be beneath everyone.
Have a nice day!

[Nick_Karatzides]

Yeah! Why don't we all vote for HIM (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2039339&posted=1#post2039339) too, to give him the oportunity to be able to adopt children? According some MP.net members opinion (as posted on the present thread), he has the right to adopt children and become a gentle father... as long as "he is loving, & caring".

His actions are discusting! ...as discusting to see homo****** men couples trying to raise adopted kids.

[Sgt Kanderer]

Who are you to decide what should be acceptable, and what not? Your
opinion is only one of a few billion people, so tone your pro-gayism down.

As for the human psyche discussion, I only answered the questions raised
by fellow members. And when not, the arguments were used to counter
falsifiable statements.

I'm not going to abandon my rights to free speech, only because of a few
queers and/or pro-queers like you.

So, shut the fsck up! You and your queer statements are laughable.


First of all, don't call me a 'dude'. Two queers conceiving children together,
and then raising the kids with their queer partners is as anti-social as it can
be. It not only nullifies the whole concept of a 'family', but also raises questions
of moral values in a society. If queers were supposed to have and raise kids,
nature would have made provisions for that.

The very foundation of homo******ity is anti-family beliefs and practises.
A family consists of a hetero****** couple and kids. If queers were so uptight
about family values to adopt children, they wouldn't be queers at all.


Quite the opposite! What if parents are blind or handicapped otherwise, or
convicted criminals? Isn't it bigotry enough to deny them from adopting a
child only because of their mental, physical or social problems?

Why are you so pro-queer in first place? There are enough hetero******
couples around to adopt all the orphans, if need be.


It you who is a true bigot. If you're a queer yourself, accept it. If you're not,
then stop supporting them blindly, that too without any bias against the
so-called homophobes. It's not like you're a UNSC member and can veto
the resolution against queers adopting children. So, quit the whining.

People like you should be sent to mental asylums with your gay friends. Hah!

Make something good for this planet : KILL YOURSELF !!

[khukuri]

yes they should, who the fvck should decide for someone else

[Gothjod]

67% of families in the US are considerd "disfunctional". So... IMO yeah why not we have the mayority of families divorced or something. There are plenty of Single parents all over the place. Why not having 2 parents that love you instead of 1?

Matt

[Durandal]

You're probably swinging both ways then. By the malicious post at the end... you must be utterly disppointing to your parent's upstanding upbringing, since you're insulting someones's family member on a wimp. Bastard...

Ah, the rebuttal of the ignorant.

Nothing malicious about my post at all. Nothing I said was done so out of spite or with the intent to harm. I was simply following your logic. If you find that insulting or hateful, than I am truly sorry. I know we have at least some gay members and if you find my legitimate questions using your logic, then maybe you should question whether other members might find your words equally as offensive.

Then you use that bastard comment again. I know my father.

THought we got that cleared up in the last round.

[gaz]

Yeah! Why don't we all vote for HIM (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2039339&posted=1#post2039339) too, to give him the oportunity to be able to adopt children? According some MP.net members opinion (as posted on the present thread), he has the right to adopt children and become a gentle father... as long as "he is loving, & caring".

His actions are discusting! ...as discusting to see homo****** men couples trying to raise adopted kids.

You're actually comparing a man who f*cked a dead dog to adults who give their consent and are in a monogamous relationship?

[Hydro]

For the antis here: Does it make any difference in your eyes if it was a male couple adopting, or a female couple?

[Pandy]

Ah, the rebuttal of the ignorant.

Nothing malicious about my post at all. Nothing I said was done so out of spite or with the intent to harm. I was simply following your logic. If you find that insulting or hateful, than I am truly sorry. I know we have at least some gay members and if you find my legitimate questions using your logic, then maybe you should question whether other members might find your words equally as offensive.

Then you use that bastard comment again. I know my father.

THought we got that cleared up in the last round.

Yea Mobydog, you might want to quit because he does have you by your balls. (I read some of you post so far), And well, I ain't too sure you should have children yourself.

Possible Dumbarse of the week here people! YAY MOBYDOG!

[gaz]

For the antis here: Does it make any difference in your eyes if it was a male couple adopting, or a female couple?

I'm not an anti, but I am an uncle and I support gay marriage if both girls are hot.

Seriously though, I know several gay couples (All guys) and I'd trust any of them to raise a kid. I know a hell of a lot more straight couples and there are a lot of them I wouldn't trust with a pointy stick.

[Lt. James Anderson]

It's all about (butt) *** ...

[California Joe]

Mobydog and AgentX will be taking a break till next semester. I'm getting pretty f*cking sick of blatant ignorance masking itself as opinion around here.

Now where is the knob with the greek name that thinks f*cking dogs is the same as consenting adults....

[Pandy]

Mobydog and AgentX will be taking a break till next semester. I'm getting pretty f*cking sick of blatant ignorance masking itself as opinion around here.

Now where is the knob with the greek name that thinks f*cking dogs is the same as consenting adults....

At-a-boy!

Thank you CJ!

[Hollis]

There was a article in the Salem newspaper of the shortage of homes for foster care. This is not adoption but a temporary fill in. Some times the foster care parents will a adopt a kid.

Again as Belrick stated, what needs to be done should be to give the children the best possible solution. If we waited for perfect solutions, the orphanages would be over flowing. Spaces under bridges or where street kids hide would also be filed too. Prefect does not exist on this planet

There are a lot of single parent families of (either ***) that provide good homes to their children.

A less than perfect home is still better than NO home.

[California Joe]

You know, I hate to harp on the age issue around here because clearly that doesn't always make a difference but there really is something to having life experience that makes one have a broader viewpoint on things and begin to see the grey areas of life that foster tolerance and not hatred.

[Durandal]

You know, I hate to harp on the age issue around here because clearly that doesn't always make a difference but there really is something to having life experience that makes one have a broader viewpoint on things and begin to see the grey areas of life that foster tolerance and not hatred.

All too true...of course. my smart ass mouth doesn't help. p-)

On a side note as to the whole adoption thing, C and I have pretty much decided to adopt out of the country. I hate to say it, but the U.S. adoption process has way too much baggage.

Unless you want a special needs child, which has crap load of baggage associated with it and requires a person, that, admittedly (unless it was my own flesh and blood) I am not.

I know that sounds selfish, but that is the way. I applaud couples (gay and straight) that can take on the role of a special needs parent and I just do not have it in me right now to take on that role...

[LRPV]

yes they should, who the fvck should decide for someone else

No they should not! Give the child a chance for a normal life.

[Durandal]

No they should not! Give the child a chance for a normal life.

Normal is growing up in a crappy life filled with other parent-less children? Statistically destined to poverty, abuse, and fairly good chance of crime, violence, or death at an early age from dysentery, typhoid, AIDs, or any of another poverty related disease or virus as a result of crappy or no healthcare (depending on the nation)?

[CPL Trevoga]

No they should not! Give the child a chance for a normal life.

If a child is put up for adaption, that already indicates that child's life is pretty fukced up and far away from "normal."

[California Joe]

The command lawyer at my last job adopted a little girl from China with her husband and it cost them a lot of money and time, but they got her. Good luck my friend.

[LRPV]

If a child is put up for adaption, that already indicates that child's life is pretty fukced up and far away from "normal."

The issue here is not adoption per se, but adoption by homo******s. I have no issue with single parenting, a happy single parent family is better than a two parent family that provides a miserable environment.

[LRPV]

Normal is growing up in a crappy life filled with other parent-less children? Statistically destined to poverty, abuse, and fairly good chance of crime, violence, or death at an early age from dysentery, typhoid, AIDs, or any of another poverty related disease or virus as a result of crappy or no healthcare (depending on the nation)?

How is this diatribe related to the thread? It appears that you have an issue with the word 'normal'. I too can quote from sociology 101 but its got stuff all to do with this thread, in the case of your post.

[Nick_Karatzides]

The command lawyer at my last job adopted a little girl from China with her husband and it cost them a lot of money and time, but they got her. Good luck my friend.Considering your post is written under the Should same *** couples be allowed to adopt (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2039774#post2039774) thead, may I ask if her husband was a MALE or FEMALE? I've read too much opinions here and I'm little confused about the new accepted status on the "same *** parents" family structure.

Wishing the best for the little girl too.

[California Joe]

She was female and he was male as is Durandal and his wife which is why I was addressing him because although this thread has morphed in several directions I prefer to accentuate the positives and not dwell on disturbing notions of necrophiliac dog f*cking being the same thing as the thread title.

[digrar]

Not often we see CJ cranky.
On a side note it's nice to see nick_Karatzides poking the bear.p-)

[Nick_Karatzides]

The command lawyer at my last job adopted a little girl from China with her husband and it cost them a lot of money and time, but they got her. Good luck my friend.Considering your post is written under the Should same *** couples be allowed to adopt (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2039774#post2039774) thead, may I ask if her husband was a MALE or FEMALE? I've read too much opinions here and I'm little confused about the new accepted status on the "same *** parents" family structure.

Wishing the best for the little girl too.She was female and he was male as is Durandal and his wifeA normal etero parents family after all! I was starting to feel, that I was the weird to believe that old-fashioned types of family with a MALE father and a FEMALE mother are the model of a nice world to live in.




Not often we see CJ cranky. On a side note it's nice to see nick_Karatzides poking the bear.p-)Not trying to be rude or insult on anybody. If saying my own opinion looks like I'm poking the bear, I must say... that I've already signed my word and prefer to stop now. Don't really want to get banned for a pointless thread.


:) :) :)



Good luck and congrats for their daughter. woot

[shocker1]

This is a hard question for me as a Christian. Thinking of the little ones without a stable home enviroment I would have to say yes. If the said persons meet the stability, financial and kids first standards their care would be better than the state. I would prefer a mother and father for a child, this supplies balance IMO. However the needs of children out weigh our moral battles and a stable, loving home is key for the kids.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

The issue here is not adoption per se, but adoption by homo******s. I have no issue with single parenting, a happy single parent family is better than a two parent family that provides a miserable environment.

Miserable to whom?

Something that you would find "miserable" perhaps?

Seriously speaking. I know many people that are not in your stereotypical nuclear family with a husband, mother, 2 kids and with a St Bernard in the backyard humping the fountain.

Alot of these people have raised kids and in some cases take on kids in a foster care situation. And do a job that anybody would be proud of.

Just because a person is part of the "cafe Latte" set does not mean they do not do a good job or lead normal lives. I grew in the burbs and now for all intents and purposes live the "cafe Latte" lifestyle.

I must say from my experiances. Life in the burbs is probably more ****ed up then life in the "Cafe Latte" crowd. If not more so.

[Meldon]

No, they should not. As a Christian, I read nowhere in the Holly Bible that what mother nature does not allow could be allowed. As a human being, I think however that a child loved in a homo****** family is better than a beaten one in a normal family. The fact is that as a hetero******, I do not understand gay people and I do think they are "outside" the society.

[Lau]

I say its ok!

People using an old book to guide their lives should not have a say on this issue.

"The bible sayes" Come on.....

The bible also says its ok to beat your slaves... Do any of you do that? Its ok, the bible sayes so...

If god was around, he would kick all religious fanatics in the nuts! ;)

[Meldon]

If god was around, he would kick all religious fanatics in the nuts! ;)

Someone said "I have nothing against God, I'm just afraid of his fan club" lol

I understand your point of view, but we are all obeying some books. If it is not the Bible or whatever, it is a constitution or some laws. About the Bible, the new testament does not say "you have to do that" just the way it is written, it just give you something to think about to make of yourself a better man. That is the way it was teached to me and I just love this way.

[shocker1]

I say its ok!

People using an old book to guide their lives should not have a say on this issue.

"The bible sayes" Come on.....

The bible also says its ok to beat your slaves... Do any of you do that? Its ok, the bible sayes so...

If god was around, he would kick all religious fanatics in the nuts! ;)
Everyone has a say in it, instead of beating down religion why not just state why you agree. I gave my Christian opinion without saying someones going to hell, the have no rights blahblahblah. Instead I listened to my heart and found compassion for the needy children because my BOOK commands me to put the little ones before myself, love my neighbor and love my God. Now what is wrong with that!

[CPL Trevoga]

I say its ok!
People using an old book to guide their lives should not have a say on this issue.
"The bible sayes" Come on.....
The bible also says its ok to beat your slaves... Do any of you do that? Its ok, the bible sayes so...
If god was around, he would kick all religious fanatics in the nuts! ;)

Is it me or Nordic people and Finns are very anti-Christian? It's seem they never stoped worshiping pagan Thor. Don't mistake Biblical stories, with actuall comandments.

[ed316]

This question is not about adoption it's about preconcieve notions and discrimination. If Nick was so concern about the child's welfare he should look at the studies I have provided instead trying to equate homo******ity to a psychological defect.

Remeber children are not born to hate. They are taught to hate.

[Eye]

IMO they shouldn't. It's just unnatural that child has two dads or two mums. When we take under consideration that some gay organizations try to make *** with children legal - it could be even dangerous.

[ed316]

IMO they shouldn't. It's just unnatural that child has two dads or two mums. When take under consideration that some gay organizations try to make *** with children legal - it could be even dangerous.


NAMBLA is not a strictly "gay organization". They are sick people who want to have *** with female and male children.Period.

[Lau]

Someone said "I have nothing against God, I'm just afraid of his fan club" lol

I understand your point of view, but we are all obeying some books. If it is not the Bible or whatever, it is a constitution or some laws. About the Bible, the new testament does not say "you have to do that" just the way it is written, it just give you something to think about to make of yourself a better man. That is the way it was teached to me and I just love this way.

I know, and im fine with the new testament. A lot of wise words written down in one book. You are welcome to use it as a guideline in your life.
But when it comes to difficult issues like this one, using that old book is just not very sensible.

But hey, im sure most religious people would disagree. And how can I compete with the words of their god!?!?

[Ordie]

Yes...

Why not.

There are many mothers and fathers today who are unfit to be parents, cannot support thier children, neglect them and or kidnap their own children over custody battles.

It's better to place the children into homes where people are willing to take on the awsome responsibility educate, support and care for them.

[Lau]

Everyone has a say in it, instead of beating down religion why not just state why you agree. I gave my Christian opinion without saying someones going to hell, the have no rights blahblahblah. Instead I listened to my heart and found compassion for the needy children because my BOOK commands me to put the little ones before myself, love my neighbor and love my God. Now what is wrong with that!

Nothing is wrong with loving your god or your neighbor, I do the same. :)

My point is that you have to consider how the children would feel with gay parents?

Do gay people love their children as much as straigt people? YES!
Does being gay make you any less fit as a parent? NO!

Its so simple. I object to the fact that some people look in 'the good book' before considering simple facts.

Someone postet in this thread that being a daughter/son of gay people, would make you an obvious target of bullies and bad people in society. So that was a reason not to let gay people adopt children.

That statement is shocking......

[shocker1]

This is a hard question for me as a Christian. Thinking of the little ones without a stable home enviroment I would have to say yes. If the said persons meet the stability, financial and kids first standards their care would be better than the state. I would prefer a mother and father for a child, this supplies balance IMO. However the needs of children out weigh our moral battles and a stable, loving home is key for the kids.


Nothing is wrong with loving your god or your neighbor, I do the same. :)

My point is that you have to consider how the children would feel with gay parents?

Do gay people love their children as much as straigt people? YES!
Does being gay make you any less fit as a parent? NO!

Its so simple. I object to the fact that some people look in 'the good book' before considering simple facts.

Someone postet in this thread that being a daughter/son of gay people, would make you an obvious target of bullies and bad people in society. So that was a reason not to let gay people adopt children.

That statement is shocking......
As my previous post shows I agree and being homo****** does not make you a better parent either. All I can say is put the kids first and leave your bedroom habits in the bedroom. I must say though that when I was in school if your parents were gay then you were marked for beat down.
EDIT: If your parents are gay somebody is cheating.p-)

[Lau]

As my previous post shows I agree and being homo****** does not make you a better parent either. All I can say is put the kids first and leave your bedroom habits in the bedroom. I must say though that when I was in school if your parents were gay then you were marked for beat down.

Sure. And in some schools you are marked for beat down , if you are black, asian, Indian, American, Persian Etc...... But they still have the right to adoption.

[shocker1]

Sure. And in some schools you are marked for beat down , if you are black, asian, Indian, American, Persian Etc...... But they still have the right to adoption.
How does one compare race to a persons ****** habits? They have nothing to do with each other. The kid with the gay parents back in the day would be on top of the bully **** list. However as I stated, if someone has the money, stable home and kids first attitude then they should be able to adopt the little ones without a loving home.

[Lau]

How does one compare race to a persons ****** habits? They have nothing to do with each other. The kid with the gay parents back in the day would be on top of the bully **** list. However as I stated, if someone has the money, stable home and kids first attitude then they should be able to adopt the little ones without a loving home.

Most gay people argue that they were born gay, so its not really their fault. hence the comparison to races. Wether you are born gay or not, its still not their fault, so they should be treated like all other human beings.

BTW, I agree with most of what you write, if you had any doubts... :)

[shocker1]

Most gay people argue that they were born gay, so its not really their fault. hence the comparison to races. Wether you are born gay or not, its still not their fault, so they should be treated like all other human beings.

BTW, I agree with most of what you write, if you had any doubts... :)
I am sorry but if that were true they would have died out before they even got started. That logic would put muderers, rapists ect in the same catagory because some of them say they were born that way. It is a behavior I despise but I love people regardless of their faults. I will end it here since we both understand what each other is saying.

[California Joe]

Well said shocker. Very "Christian" of you. I mean that.

[Lau]

I am sorry but if that were true they would have died out before they even got started. That logic would put muderers, rapists ect in the same catagory because some of them say they were born that way. It is a behavior I despise but I love people regardless of their faults. I will end it here since we both understand what each other is saying.

Dont compare Gay people to racist and murderes just because the claim its not their fault. Its a terrible comparison!

But ok, lets end it. :)

[Durandal]

How is this diatribe related to the thread? It appears that you have an issue with the word 'normal'. I too can quote from sociology 101 but its got stuff all to do with this thread, in the case of your post.

Are you serious?

Its completely on topic.

To me, gay is normal. Different, but as normal as anything else. I have gay friends, gay neighbors, and gay family.

No different than anyone else.

There is ONLY one thing that tells us homo******ity is wrong and that is religion.

We sit around and argue that torture is ok in some cases and I see, ironically, the same people, more or less, telling us that gay people who want to adopt children and start a family because they are unable to have children themselves, is somehow wrong.

It makes me sick. I think its about as unAmerican as you can get. Families, regardless of wether they are gay or not are a benefit to this nation.

All I see are a bunch of bigots that hate fags and think we all should. Then they get all defensive because we/I somehow misunderstand their dislike as something akin to racism.

*snort*

Cry me a damn river.

MOST children that I know would enjoy a loving family and call THAT normal regardless of what WE call it. Some children float between 2 homes with 2 sets of parents. Is that normal to me? Not at all. My parents never divorced. But that IS normal to others.

LRPV, you want to know what this has to do with this topic. You have the balls to define normal as if YOUR concept of normal is something we should all accept or is, in fact normal.

See, that's the difference between you and me.

I live and let live. You have a perceived notion on who we SHOULD be.

[LRPV]

Durandal,
Are you gay? You seem rather perturbed by the fact that I express a common value set.

For the record, I do not see homo******ity as normal. This is not a religious or moral issue but one of logic. 1+1 =2. Males and females may procreate. Gays by virtue (p-) ) of their mental construction cannot naturally reproduce.

Have a gay time.

[Durandal]

Durandal,
Are you gay? You seem rather perturbed by the fact that I express a common value set.

Nope. Not gay, happily straight. The word you are looking for is tolerant.

Its probably one of the reasons why I get along with Geezah, who is fairly right of center, Minardiau who most definitely is not. We differ a whole lot, but we find common ground and can agree to disagree, respectfully, without forcing our will of what is normal upon each other.


This is not a religious or moral issue but one of logic. Males and females may procreate. Gays cannot naturally reproduce.

So what about us straight couples that cannot, naturally, have children? Using YOUR logic they are not normal and should not be allowed to adopt either.

Fantastic logic there smart guy.

[CPL Trevoga]

Durandal,
Are you gay? You seem rather perturbed by the fact that I express a common value set.
For the record, I do not see homo******ity as normal. This is not a religious or moral issue but one of logic. 1+1 =2. Males and females may procreate. Gays by virtue (p-) ) of their mental construction cannot naturally reproduce.
Have a gay time.

You right buddy, fags are abnormal, but it's a naturally occurring chemical imbalance in 5%-10% of the population that causes these people to be attracted to species of the same ***. It's been recorded through out of human history, it not just they suddenly appeared. It's a condition, but it doesn't make them less human.

Also Jesus did not say anything about gay adoption, so you just have to go with your gut feeling on this one. Most old people here seem to think that it's not a bad idea.

[LRPV]

Durandal... I don't have an issue with straight couples that are infertile or otherwise unable to reproduce adopting children. Hopefully that clarifies that point.

Tolerance? You could argue I am intolerant but that is your view. Certainly I have strong convictions with which you disagree. Throughout this 'debate' the issue for me has been what I perceive as best for the children. Some will agree, some will not.

[Durandal]

Durandal... I don't have an issue with straight couples that are infertile or otherwise unable to reproduce adopting children. Hopefully that clarifies that point.

Just using your logic. You said two people that could not naturally propagate should mean they cannot adopt and is not normal (or at least inferred that).

I am not saying that YOU believe that hetero couples should not be able to adopt. I am simply pointing out the flaw in your logic.


Tolerance? You could argue I am intolerant but that is your view. Certainly I have strong convictions with which you disagree. Throughout this 'debate' the issue for me has been what I perceive as best for the children. Some will agree, some will not.

Ahh, and this is the crux of the argument. How do you define tolerance? To me tolerance is not about forcing everyone to say "this is right" or "you have to like all races and ethnic groups". Tolerance is simply a civil rights issue. You should be able to practice your religion without interference. You should be able to adopt if you appear to be a good parent (since even the home study organizations do not have a REAL litmus test for determining a good parent) you should be able to adopt.

Intolerance is limiting a specific group because they do not fit a profile. If I created a commercial gun club and said "Only white conservative males", that would be intolerance. If I only wanted "white conservative males" but allowed anyone that had the money to join so long as the were safe, responsible shooters, I would not be intolerant, even IF I still only wanted "white conservative males".

Same thing with marriage and adoption by homo******s. There is nothing wrong with disapproval or finding it distasteful. Just because I am a proponent of homo****** adoption does not mean that I feel comfortable about talking about gay *** or watching gay men kiss. I simply think, legally, and keeping faith with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, that we have a duty to see past our beliefs and making sure that everyone is given the same opportunity to grab the brass ring, be it getting an education, marriage, voting, or adopting. You simply cannot limit a person's right...and make no mistake, a person has a right to start a family...because you do not "like" it.

And I think that is the foundation of this entire argument and its an important one. We get past this, as a society, and we are, I think, headed onto better things. We will grow, we will have a 5 to 10% increase in families and the nation will be stronger.

This nation's strength, like it or not, is its tolerance and openness. People come here and they become Americans. I have always thought the melting pot theory of American societal ebb and flow was bunk, because every immigrant wave retains something that makes it diverse and unique, but THAT is part of America we aren't a melting pot so much as a society that does not accept "the norm" and "homogeny"...we thrive on diversity. People may not get along with other people or we may dislike certain cultures, but EVERYONE is treated, fundamentally, with equality and everyone has a chance to live the American dream.

I think we sometimes forget these words:


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

[Nagan]

NAMBLA is not a strictly "gay organization". They are sick people who want to have *** with female and male children.Period.

And what's wrong with that? Do you have prejudices against grownup/child relationships? Studies show that children enter ****** maturity very early, or otherwise could be brought to early maturity by a loving and caring partner.

I think it's time we started to realize that paedophilia is not a disease but a perfectly natural and normal attraction, if the mutual understanding is there.

Thank God the gay issues have opened the libertine doors for legalising a whole plethora of repressed minorities.

We could start out a bit softly with marriage rights for zoophiliacs.

[ed316]

And what's wrong with that? Do you have prejudices against grownup/child relationships? Studies show that children enter ****** maturity very early, or otherwise could be brought to early maturity by a loving and caring partner.

I think it's time we started to realize that paedophilia is not a disease but a perfectly natural and normal attraction, if the mutual understanding is there.

Thank God the gay issues have opened the libertine doors for legalising a whole plethora of repressed minorities.

We could start out a bit softly with marriage rights for zoophiliacs.

Didn't know being gay was illegal? Apples and oranges.

Do you have a study linking pedophilia and homo******ity? Or are you just grouping it all together because it's what you were taught when you were young?

[Nagan]

Didn't know being gay was illegal? Apples and oranges.

Do you have a study linking pedophilia and homo******ity? Or are you just grouping it all together because it's what you were taught when you were young?

What linking? I am just forecasting what you will harp about in 10 years time.

Apples and oranges? Pfft.

[ed316]

What linking? I am just forecasting what you will harp about in 10 years time.

Apples and oranges? Pfft.

Really? Ones illegal and will always be. While the other is not. In Texas it's legals for gays to adopt. It's also illegal for Adults to have *** with under age people regardless of ****** preference.

Like I said Apples and oranges.

[Ordie]

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."

"Matthew 7 verses 1-6"

Before anyone be-littles gay parents, perhaps one should look after why children are being neglected, abused, harmed and abandoned in the first place. If "Christians" are concerned about family, perhaps they should put more energy in reducing the 50% divorce rate in this country.

Anyone can be the father or mother. But it takes a special person to be a parent.

[Nagan]

Really? Ones illegal and will always be. While the other is not. In Texas it's legals for gays to adopt. It's also illegal for Adults to have *** with under age people regardless of ****** preference.

Like I said Apples and oranges.

There you go. Total intolerance and narrowmindedness. What's wrong with LOVE ON MUTUAL CONSENT? Aren't there cultures where 4-year old girls are married away? There? See?

"Ones illegal and will always be"

Don't be so sure about that. The walls of prejudice are made for breaking.

PS. Anyways, I think you perfectly understand what I'm angling at. Where do you intend to set the red flag and say "Hereto, and No Further"?

[ed316]

There you go. Total intolerance and narrowmindedness. What's wrong with LOVE ON MUTUAL CONSENT? Aren't there cultures where 4-year old girls are married away? There? See?

"Ones illegal and will always be"

Don't be so sure about that. The walls of prejudice are made for breaking.

PS. Anyways, I think you perfectly understand what I'm angling at. Where do you intend to set the red flag and say "Hereto, and No Further"?
There is age of consent laws. Ever heard about that? How about indecency with a minor heard aout that? This is about gays adopting not NAMBLA. Your angle seems to be that gays and pedophilia is the same. So any studies on the link?

[Nagan]

There is age of consent laws. Ever heard about that? How about indecency with a minor heard aout that? This is about gays adopting not NAMBLA. Your angle seems to be that gays and pedophilia is the same. So any studies on the link?

Don't twist my angle. My angle is about self-advertising egoists that try to steal a place in the limelight, when nobody really could hinder them from raising a child without any legalisation claptrap. Just say you're Jack the Single Parent, and Joe is just a good friend.

And nothing hinders others from lining up in theat egoist queue. Comprende?

[ed316]

Don't twist my angle. My angle is about self-advertising egoists that try to steal a place in the limelight, when nobody really could hinder them from raising a child without any legalisation claptrap. Just say you're Jack the Single Parent, and Joe is just a good friend.

And nothing hinders others from lining up in theat egoist queue. Comprende?


So who is stealing the lime light? Kids have been raised by gay parents for awhile. This is not some knew phenomenon.



And what's wrong with that? Do you have prejudices against grownup/child relationships? Studies show that children enter ****** maturity very early, or otherwise could be brought to early maturity by a loving and caring partner.

I think it's time we started to realize that paedophilia is not a disease but a perfectly natural and normal attraction, if the mutual understanding is there.

Thank God the gay issues have opened the libertine doors for legalising a whole plethora of repressed minorities.

We could start out a bit softly with marriage rights for zoophiliacs.


Not twisting anything.

[Nagan]

So who is stealing the lime light? Kids have been raised by gay parents for awhile. This is not some knew phenomenon.

Not twisting anything.

Twisting, twisting beyond recognition. Asking for some "study" on some "equality" between two separate issues, when the statement was that one issue is a stepping stone to another.

So at least I know that paedo-rights is something you will condone in a future no too distant. Just make sure to keep your word.

[Belrick]

In my experience there is no such thing as current perception of 'normal' when describing humans. I don't beleive that its a term that should be used lightly because its purely in the eye of the beholder. Get enough people convinced sheep shagging is normal then its acted like it is normal.

A better term to describe such activities is disfunctional and if anyone thinks homo******ity is a functional practice on a community wide scale then they need to get there head read.

Ask yourself, what is the biological purpose of ***? Is sticking *****es in mens poo holes or sheep poo holes or dead bodies or blow up dolls a functional alternative to hetro****** ***? Never mind the emotion from the current generations propaganda campaign at normalizing such intercourses, just answer the question logically.

[ed316]

Twisting, twisting beyond recognition. Asking for some "study" on some "equality" between two separate issues, when the statement was that one issue is a stepping stone to another.

So at least I know that paedo-rights is something you will condone in a future no too distant. Just make sure to keep your word.


Is being gay illegal? Stepping stone? Texas allows gays to adopted and it's illegal for adults to have *** with children. I don't see the state legaling adult/child *** anytime soon. OMG gays wants to be parents!!! Please.

[Kaapeli]

A better term to describe such activities is disfunctional and if anyone thinks homo******ity is a functional practice on a community wide scale then they need to get there head read.

Ask yourself, what is the biological purpose of ***? Is sticking *****es in mens poo holes or sheep poo holes or dead bodies or blow up dolls a functional alternative to hetro****** ***? Never mind the emotion from the current generations propaganda campaign at normalizing such intercourses, just answer the question logically.

Let's put it this way: What is the biological purpose of you debating over the internet with people located on the other side of the world?
Correct, absolutely none. And that's because we're a social species and most of our actions have social functions.

[Durandal]

Good counters Ed. A fair a decent discussion on your side.