EU Will Never Become A Military Superpower...

[Caraway]

...nor it will become anykind of superpower. It is because we don't have one language. It is because we don't have a one nation. It is because we don't have one threath (OK, we have Russia). It is because we have nothing incommon with ourselves. It is because we have France, Germany and the UK.
Comments please.

[Truthsayer]

"ok"



;)

[cut]

things change, but look at the signs, you are typing in english and your location says united states of europe, so not as distant as you might think.

If you take india for example about 30 states roughly 10 different major languages AND alphabets! If you want to have a nationwide business over ther you need to learn english or hindi

[foxtrot023]

20 years ago, someone like you also said:


We don`t have a common currency, we don`t have open borders, there is no central bank.

the strongest link has already been made (currency). The EU will never be a nation (in the next 100 years at the very least) but it can become a state.

Regards

[Caraway]

I'm typing "the United States of Europe", Still, I can't believe it anyway...It's more like a hope of "the United states of Europe".
Edit: EU will most likely backfire within that 100 years.
Edit: And just because UK, France and Germany, It will backfire...

I hope that we, the Europe, can be one day as one nation as one people. The language is the biggest problem...

[Shadow]

I don't think that the languages are our problem.
I am very glad that europe has such a huge variety.
For me eg. I have to drive 20 km and then i am in France new traffic sings new language etc. That's cool. I don't want a monotonous country like the USA. Same language same food same people. :(

btw I saw a survey recently and i was about "do you feel yourself more german eg or euopean"

France was on the top! Nearly 50% felt more european then french.
I wouldn't mind if i wake up tomorrow and we are one country.
One government one economy one military.

[Parzival]

You are a little bit wrong there. Germany and France Want a superpower. The countries that stop them are in facts the small and neutral countries like Sweden and Finland. I don't know what UK´s position is, but the neutral countries are the biggest porblem.
Of course not EU never will be a nation, but look. USA was a country with hundred of nation and they became a country.

[Parzival]

I don't think that the languages are our problem.
I am very glad that europe has such a huge variety.
For me eg. I have to drive 20 km and then i am in France new traffic sings new language etc. That's cool. I don't want a monotonous country like the USA. Same language same food same people. :(

btw I saw a survey recently and i was about "do you feel yourself more german eg or euopean"

France was on the top! Nearly 50% felt more european then french.
I wouldn't mind if i wake up tomorrow and we are one country.
One government one economy one military.
No, they ain't the same peapole in US. Is a big diffrens between americans and americans like it is between europeans and europeans.

[stuntman]

don't want a monotonous country like the USA I suppose New York City is the most
monotonous place on earth right? Not to mention the very foundation of America, foreigners Most of them from Europe (Dads side). I think that english will be the universal language of most of the western world. My opinion is that pride will keep Europe apart. JMHO.

[big_les]

This is probably a very simplistic observation, but did it not take a civil war to actually unite the States? Given how complicated the history and politics of the European nations are, and much more established they all are than the American states were in the 1860s, it's an uphill struggle.

[Mark Sman]

Caraway
Post subject: EU Will Never Become A Military Superpower...

...nor it will become anykind of superpower. It is because we don't have one language. It is because we don't have a one nation. It is because we don't have one threath (OK, we have Russia). It is because we have nothing incommon with ourselves. It is because we have France, Germany and the UK.
Comments please.

Given the curent situation, it would be easy to agree with much of what Caraway says.

However, history and probability argue against much of it.

History:
1. Alexander The Great.
2. (provisional) Rome
3. The Victorian era of the British Empire.

Probability:
1. No situation is stable.
2. (provisional) That which goes up, must come down.
3. Can it happen? Then it will happen. Probably.

[Kicius]

It is because we don't have one threath (OK, we have Russia).

IMHO it is main reason. And I don't think it is wise to have one.
And Russia isn't real threat. They got bigger problems than invading EU.

The next one is: Differences in mentality, culture and military equipment.
Maybe this will disapear in next couple years - but now :(

Third one - I can't imagine a German soldier watching my back.
Maybe it was his grandfather that killed most of my grandfather's family in june 1944 in Starożyńce (near Lipsk nad Biebrzą).

The problem is too complicated for my simple mind.

[TheJedi]

The last war in Europe is just 60 years ago. Give us some time! ;)

Well, I'm pretty sure that the European unification will continue.
Look forward, not backwards.

And language is no real problem, I think.
What's bad about learning 1 or 2 foreign languages?
At least it keeps your brain working.

Edit:


I can't imagine a German soldier watching my back.
Maybe it was his grandfather that killed most of my grandfather's family in june 1944 in Starozynce (near Lipsk nad Biebrza).

Well, I'm sad I can't help you with this.
But noone should be judged be the deeds of his grandfather.

That would mean to think a murderers grandson is likely to become a murderer, too. I don't believe that.

But I can understand the feeling. Let's hope this won't continue to be in people's minds, soon. Still, we have to remember to make sure that the same mistakes won't be made again.

[Kicius]

Well, I'm sad I can't help you with this.
But noone should be judged be the deeds of his grandfather.

That would mean to think a murderers grandson is likely to become a murderer, too. I don't believe that.



You're right
And i wasn't quite serious. I've got nothing against Germans in general.
Just can't imagine a German as brother in arms.

It's much better to look forward, but also you can't forgot everthing.

Regards.

[perdurabo]

hey i can talk in english and german also little bit of russian and czech, almoust all ppl i know can talk in at least one foregin language so it's not a problem, i know few germans that lern polish if some big tradgedy won't happen in future we will be one country from scotland to finnland from italy to far north... :) but EU to have real power needs to have strong economics and too big social in EU is slowing it down, almoust all EU goverments are socialists so in next 10yrs it won't change a bit.

[Kitsune]

The United States were also a bunch of States, who had a hard time agreeing on something. How much laughter there was in Europe as the Civil War broke out and the americans shot themselves by the tens of thousands! Long live the Union?

Germany and France are friends today, and everyone talks about the Franco German axis. This came to be because Germans and French tried to work out their differences after WWII. There were quite a few people who said that it would be impossible and those people could state that the German/French history is one of a thousand years of enmity.

But enmity of a thousand years can be overcome. Only one thing is needed: will. Without it it is impossible, with it everything goes.

Wether Europe will be a "superpower", we will see. Budanski says "no", while I say "It will be". Only time will tell.
But if it does not come to be the reason for it will not be the lack of a common language, nor France or Germany, nor Sweden or the small countries. It will only be because of lack of will. Because of people who think it would be impossible.
People like you Caraway.

[Shadow]

ROFL
Don't try to compare the US with Europe when it's up to culture!rofl
Do you know the smallest books on earth? American History and Culture and Mahad Magandi: Me the Killingmachine!
Wow, you got a City that's not as monotonous as the rest of the USA, Congratulation!

And btw I speak german english and french now i'm able to communicate with the majority of europe.
And I wouldn't have a prob if I need to fight with a french comrade or a british.

[perdurabo]

ROFL
Don't try to compare the US with Europe when it's up to culture!rofl
Do you know the smallest books on earth? American History and Culture and Mahad Magandi: Me the Killingmachine!
Wow, you got a City that's not as monotonous as the rest of the USA, Congratulation!

And btw I speak german english and french now i'm able to communicate with the majority of europe.
And I wouldn't have a prob if I need to fight with a french comrade or a british.
ok so you know 3western language(witch are quite easy to learn) now its time for atleast one estern europe language! a propose you hungarian if your tongue will not fall apart you will be able to learn any language in the earth :) (finish prabably is tangue-braker too...)

[Kitsune]

American history isn't that short Shadow. The USA are the oldest democracy in the world, their nation is older than most states of Europe.

As for Europe: learn English! Thats enough for communication. Nothing wrong with learning another European language of a country you want to be especially close to.

The different mentalities should be seen as a chance not as a liability. It is wrong that only people who are exactly alike can cooperate! People who are very different can still pull a rope in the same direction.

[Mark Sman]

Shadow
Wow, you got a City that's not as monotonous as the rest of the USA, Congratulation!

I'll just assume that is a joke. I'll assume that because I'm sure you've been to Las Vegas, San Juan P.R., New Orleans, Maui, Manitou, and Juneau.

PS
As a matter of fact, if you wanted to move to Miami, you might want to learn a few more languages.

[Mark Sman]

And btw I speak german english and french now i'm able to communicate with the majority of europe.
And I wouldn't have a prob if I need to fight with a french comrade or a british.

But I totally get this part. Hell, I'm suprised it took this long. I hope this little experiment in Europe works out. Which will be a subjective call.

But I can assure you of one thing. This experiment is going to be tried. In real time with quadrophonic economics.

In the U.S. we have a census every ten years. This census will, in a large part, determine representation, taxes and funding until the next census.

What is the E.U. equivalent?

[perdurabo]

budget debate ;-) EU budgets are made in 6 or 8 yrs time dont remember too good :)

[Marmot1]

American history isn't that short Shadow. The USA are the oldest democracy in the world, their nation is older than most states of Europe.
Most states??? can you show me which??? Poland is 1040 years old england almost thousand (counting from hastings battle) germany ,france,itally 1300 (treaty of Verdun around 700), czech 1000, Spain well they discovered america so they must have been older...
US had first modern constitution but we in poland had a second oldest. USA is republic with elected president and parliament since 1776 we in poland have parliament since middle ages and elected kings (in majrity elections) since 1573. And in 1505 the Nihil Novi (Nihil Novi nisi commune consensu) constitution was passed in Poland giving real power not to King (elected) but to general assemby (altrough only nobles were allowed to participate,but on the other hand there were as many nobles n polad as ants... :lol: Also word "republic is in polish name since 1579 (Rzeczpospolita Polska-Res Publica Poloniae - Republic of Poland)

BTW the oldest demokracy is Greece - Demos Kratos are greek words

As for Europe: learn English! Thats enough for communication. Nothing wrong with learning another European language of a country you want to be especially close to.
How about esperanto? ;)
The different mentalities should be seen as a chance not as a liability. It is wrong that only people who are exactly alike can cooperate! People who are very different can still pull a rope in the same direction.
Agree

[Kitsune]

marmot...

The Polish state was founded 1990? shortly after WWII? 1919? pick one.
Germany is a nation since 1870, the Federal Republic 1949, it was reunified in 1990.
France has seen a lot of republics and monarchies since Nappy's time.
And so on!

The English can claim to be older, same for some scandinavians.

As far as America is concerned...thats much older, millions of years, some areas probably nearly a billion years. ;)

And the greek democracy...it wasn't a democracy according to our standards today. And ceased to be even that (whatever it was) when the macedonians conquered it. As the Americans rebelled against their English masters the Greek were part of the Osman turk empire.

[Celareon]

Marmot, Kitsune meant that the United States of America is the oldest "still in existence, uninterrupted" democracy in the world. Greece was the "first" democracy....2500 years ago.


And if I have my history right, isn't it true that if even one noble in your glorious "polish parliament" didn't want to have a topic discussed, he could just voice his opposition and the entire congress had to adjourn? - Great working parliament you had there ;)

[foxtrot023]

marmot...

The Polish state was founded 1990? shortly after WWII? 1919? pick one.
Germany is a nation since 1870, the Federal Republic 1949, it was reunified in 1990.
France has seen a lot of republics and monarchies since Nappy's time.
And so on!

The English can claim to be older, same for some scandinavians.

As far as America is concerned...thats much older, millions of years, some areas probably nearly a billion years. ;)

Spain, amongst the first nation states of Europe, has a founding date of 1492.

Regards

[Jehuty]

France is around 1300-1400 years old.(You can choose either the first Frank King Clovis or the treaty of Verdun).

Germany has been created in 1871 after the defeat of Austria in 1866 and France in 1870.(it was before hundreds of differents states)

Italy in 1861 with the help of France and Prussia.(same as Germany).

Poland has been indeed created several times after differents annexions.

So no USA are not young politically compare to some Europeeans countries.

And on-topic, seeing how much we done in 60 years, i'm pretty optimistic for the future.

[Brozozo]

If the EU wants to become a major player, superpower, military power etc. it's really going to have to put its differences aside and behave as one nation. Something they won't be able to due because of their fierce reluctancy to be assimilated into another European culture. They have identities they arn't willing to lose in order to make the EU more unified and effective.

[perdurabo]

first notes(writted letters but archeology found few things from circa 600) about Polish kingdom are from erly 900 Poland was christianized in 966 when our prince Mieszko I married czech princess in 1000 Otton I or III roman emperror of the german house gaved Mieszko I spear of sanct Maurice and kings crown.... even under ocupation in XIX cent there where kingdoms of poland or warsaw (napoleonic times) but ocupants made goverment there and in WW II there where goverment in england (they exissted until 1989) so we are maybe not very old country (russia is older the same czech or hungarians in estern europe france austria in western europe...) so USA is still veeery young hey i lived for a year in house older than USA!

[tooms]

...nor it will become anykind of superpower. It is because we have nothing incommon with ourselves. It is because we have France, Germany and the UK.
Comments please.

Without those countries, i give no chance for Europe to be a military superpower one day... Even with them it will be very hard.

[FinnishMF]

If the EU wants to become a major player, superpower, military power etc. it's really going to have to put its differences aside and behave as one nation. Something they won't be able to due because of their fierce reluctancy to be assimilated into another European culture. They have identities they arn't willing to lose in order to make the EU more unified and effective.

EU is not "a major player" or "military power"?

:fork:

[MaDuce]

If wanna use "when first civilization started" as a standerd Amercia is about 10,000 years old. If you wanna use the when the current state was formed post of europe started after WW2. Also many europeans value their culture and don't want to be sucked into one big super nation.

[FinnishMF]

If wanna use "when first civilization started" as a standerd Amercia is about 10,000 years old. If you wanna use the when the current state was formed post of europe started after WW2. Also many europeans value their culture and don't want to be sucked into one big super nation.

There is not going to be "big super nation". EU is already now the "economy super power"

[Brozozo]

If the EU wants to become a major player, superpower, military power etc. it's really going to have to put its differences aside and behave as one nation. Something they won't be able to due because of their fierce reluctancy to be assimilated into another European culture. They have identities they arn't willing to lose in order to make the EU more unified and effective.

EU is not "a major player" or "military power"?

:fork:

I meant in the context of the original post of this thread, I do realize it is a "major player" and a "military power" but it's not really a single unified nation/state. That's why it will never reach it's full potential. The same could be said for the UN then, it is a major figure in world politics but it's not an independant nation/state and not a soveriegn power. There is a difference when countries pool, share and argue over power and when one country has it and uses it at its own discretion.

[Whistler]

I don't want a monotonous country like the USA. Same language same food same people. :(
.

LOL. You've never been to the US. Don't try to deny it, its obvious.

If you drive from New York to Florida to California through Texas up to Seattle and through Idaho etc you will go through TOTALLY different climates, peoples, etc. Same language (except for all the Spanish places ;) ), but very different versions of it.

Thats without mentioning places like Alaska and Hawaii, or the fact that a huge number of Americans are recent immigrants and cultures vary greatly. The Northern/Southern issue is another pretty huge difference.

Canada is the same way, but with a lot French thrown into the mix. IMO if most European countries had to deal with the multicultural mix in Canada they would be killing eachother in a week. Look at all the problems they ALREADY have with firebombing mosques, synagogues etc. I've never seen a armed police APC protecting a synagogue in Canada or America.

[Ratamacue]

I don't want a monotonous country like the USA. Same language same food same people. :(

rofl rofl rofl

Don't talk **** about what you don't know about.

[cut]

I don't want a monotonous country like the USA. Same language same food same people. :(

rofl rofl rofl

Don't talk **** about what you don't know about.

I've been to the US it may be a nice place to live but there's only a few things I'd want to visit.

[Ratamacue]

I'm not talking about that. The US is anything but a monotonous country. Go from New York to Tennessee to Colorado to California and you're going to see an extremely wide range of accents (practically dialects of English), food, hobbies, and overall culture. I used to live in New York, and I can tell you that it's alot different living out here in the midwest.

[Webley]

Shadow
Wow, you got a City that's not as monotonous as the rest of the USA, Congratulation!

I'll just assume that is a joke. I'll assume that because I'm sure you've been to Las Vegas, San Juan P.R., New Orleans, Maui, Manitou, and Juneau.

PS
As a matter of fact, if you wanted to move to Miami, you might want to learn a few more languages.

Don't waste your time with this creature, it is hate masquerading as ignorance.

[Webley]

EU is already now the "economy super power"

Japan was the economic super power in the 1980's and for much of the 1990's, but they were pretty much ignored on the world stage because they had no military power.

"Cain's knotted club is sceptre still"

[Webley]

Why not let Russia join the EU?


They are European, which is not true for the Asiatic Turks who might be joining.

[Shadow]

well you have to drive several thousands of kilometers to see a little difference but I just have to ride my bike as comparison. And the differences are enormous in europe.

[Haiw]

Don't waste your time with this creature, it is hate masquerading as ignorance.
rofl
You gotta be kidding me...Sixgun complaining about hate! :lol:
That's like a queer guy complaining about fags :lol:


Japan was the economic super power in the 1980's and for much of the 1990's, but they were pretty much ignored on the world stage because they had no military power.
This isn't 1940 anymore...


Why not let Russia join the EU?


They are European, which is not true for the Asiatic Turks who might be joining.
Russians aren't really European, especially since most of their country lies in Asia (just like Turkey). But anyway, the Russians propably wouldn't make the EU requirements anyway.

[Spooky]

I feel that the EU will not be a staggering success because of the cultural and historical differences between the various states. There's simply no grounds for unification. The major purpose of the EU is to compete with United States and restore the world to bipolarity which I feel is a very bad premise.

In addition, the EU is going to be seeing severe economic problems as more and more refugees from Norther Africa, Eastern Europe and many Kurdish regions move into states like Germany and France to take advantage of their social wellfare programs. Once they gain access to one state, movement through-out the whole becomes a simple matter. Even if the EU DOES consolidate its political power and become an entity that can rival the United States militarily and economically, it will be faced with many of the same problems the United States is now: Involvement in third world countries, allegations of "new imperialism", etc.

Many people forget that the United States does the things it does not because of inherent American attitudes but rather because "empires" require certain things from the world to maintain themselves. Why do you think Canada or Sweden or Belgium aren't hated around the world? Because they're relatively powerless compared to the United States and thus don't place great demands on developing countries or the world market.

When you consider the EU's geographical proximity to many third world states (and their porous borders), you begin to realize that IF the EU were to become great and powerful and alienate everyone as the United States has done, terrorism would be significantly more of a problem there than it is here in the U.S.

[perdurabo]

Russia or Turkey in EU buahahahhhhh rofl rofl goood joke!

[ibstolidude]

I don't want a monotonous country like the USA. Same language same food same people. :(
- have to result to baseless insults?

If you think that southern food is the same as west coast is the same as tex-mex is the same as cajun or creole is the same as midwest is the same as northe east seafood then you are ignorant - or just throwing out insults.

[ibstolidude]

I don't want a monotonous country like the USA. Same language same food same people. :(

rofl rofl rofl

Don't talk **** about what you don't know about.

I've been to the US it may be a nice place to live but there's only a few things I'd want to visit.
that absolutely fine - that is opinion, I thing find the uK rather friendly enough but rather boring and dreary when I compare it to places like Germany or Croatia... those are opinions and they are based on my experiences - I won't say that the all the UK sucks because the food is asll the same, when the reality is very different.

[Maine Finn]

I think he's just ignorant.

Don't even get me started on the topic of "same language." It's so different in so many places that sometimes going from one state to another makes all the difference.

For example, "wicked" is a staple term to a Mainer. It's happened that a Mainer who goes to a Southern state will catch static for saying that, even though it's a common part of his/her daily language and he/she thinks nothing of it.

I'm going to stop now, because I'll ramble on and on if I let myself.

[Webley]

Don't waste your time with this creature, it is hate masquerading as ignorance.
rofl
You gotta be kidding me...Sixgun complaining about hate! :lol:
That's like a queer guy complaining about fags :lol:

Actually, you are one of the most hateful phucks here.


Japan was the economic super power in the 1980's and for much of the 1990's, but they were pretty much ignored on the world stage because they had no military power.
This isn't 1940 anymore...

I was talking about the 1980's and 1990's where Japan was powerless despite its status as an "economic super power".



Why not let Russia join the EU?

They are European, which is not true for the Asiatic Turks who might be joining.
Russians aren't really European, especially since most of their country lies in Asia (just like Turkey). But anyway, the Russians propably wouldn't make the EU requirements anyway.

Much of Russia is European, and even that which extends into Asia is populated by Russians, A European people.

I think the biggest block to Russia being accepted into the EU is that both France and Germany wish to be like a big fish in a small pond.

[Mark Sman]

well you have to drive several thousands of kilometers to see a little difference but I just have to ride my bike as comparison. And the differences are enormous in europe.

Yeah, pretty obvious you've never been to the U.S. Not that there is anything wrong with that. In a short bike ride in N.Y. I could probably find a representative of every single language and follower of every religion that exists on the planet. An then we could catch a subway down to the U.N. headquarters.

L.A. may not even be officially part of planet Earth anymore.

Please come and visit. You might just be suprised what you find when you go someplace new. I always enjoyed my visits in Europe.

I've heard alot of different comments from Europeans when they come here (It's bigger than I thought. How Far? Isn't anything old? Wait thats my wallet.)

But boring? Never. Not once.

[cut]

I don't want a monotonous country like the USA. Same language same food same people. :(

rofl rofl rofl

Don't talk **** about what you don't know about.

I've been to the US it may be a nice place to live but there's only a few things I'd want to visit.
that absolutely fine - that is opinion, I thing find the uK rather friendly enough but rather boring and dreary when I compare it to places like Germany or Croatia... those are opinions and they are based on my experiences - I won't say that the all the UK sucks because the food is asll the same, when the reality is very different.

Croatia was boring other than the coast when I went there, but I see how you prefer it to the UK, Thet thing I don't like about the US is the carbon copy towns but when you have something to do it's not bad.

[Haiw]

Don't waste your time with this creature, it is hate masquerading as ignorance.
rofl
You gotta be kidding me...Sixgun complaining about hate! :lol:
That's like a queer guy complaining about fags :lol:

Actually, you are one of the most hateful phucks here.
rofl I don't know what you're smoking, but the only one I hate here is you...


Japan was the economic super power in the 1980's and for much of the 1990's, but they were pretty much ignored on the world stage because they had no military power.
This isn't 1940 anymore...

I was talking about the 1980's and 1990's where Japan was powerless despite its status as an "economic super power".

Yes you were talking about the 80s and 90s, but unlike 'back in the 40's' military power doesn't always have much to do with 'having power in the world' (unless you're talking about invading countries)


Why not let Russia join the EU?

They are European, which is not true for the Asiatic Turks who might be joining.
Russians aren't really European, especially since most of their country lies in Asia (just like Turkey). But anyway, the Russians propably wouldn't make the EU requirements anyway.

Much of Russia is European, and even that which extends into Asia is populated by Russians, A European people.

I think the biggest block to Russia being accepted into the EU is that both France and Germany wish to be like a big fish in a small pond.
Err....do you even have any idea of the demographic breakdown of Russia? Geez... go back to grade school.

Oh and now that you're at it; stop 'thinking'. It doesn't work when you don't have the intelligence to have it result in anything reasonable.

[Webley]

This is one of the assclowns that has been supporting the terrorists.

He also seems to have Russia confused with the Soviet Union, a multinational empire, with his talk about demographics. Just goes to show that he does not know of what he speaks.

Again, Japan had alot of wealth but no clout in the 1980's and 1990's. A strong military is necessary for power projection.

[Maine Finn]

This is one of the assclowns that has been supporting the terrorists.

He also seems to have Russia confused with the Soviet Union, a multinational empire, with his talk about demographics. Just goes to show that he does not know of what he speaks.

Do us all a favour and shut up, mate. Thanks.

[Webley]

Actually, the people who need to shut up are those Euro-trash that have been supporting the Islamic terrorists in places like Iraq.

Most seem to be from Scandinavia, but that opinion seems to be spread all over the continent.

I would really just like to line 'em up on the wall and shoot the lot, but because of laws and whatnot I must settle for annoying them with words.

[Haiw]

This is one of the assclowns that has been supporting the terrorists.

He also seems to have Russia confused with the Soviet Union, a multinational empire, with his talk about demographics. Just goes to show that he does not know of what he speaks.

Again, Japan had alot of wealth but no clout in the 1980's and 1990's. A strong military is necessary for power projection.
:roll:
Grab a map will ya? Now go and find the Russian Federation. Now look how it stretches all the way over Asia...

Oh and a simple reason why Japan didn't have much power back then; it was in Asia. Simple fact. (Not meant to draw anyone down or anything)

Oh and please shut up with all your 'terrorist-supporter'-bullcrap. Just come over here in Europe to "line 'em up on the wall and shoot the lot", so we can show you first-hand Europe doesn't always play nice.

[foxtrot023]

Actually, the people who need to shut up are those Euro-trash that have been supporting the Islamic terrorists in places like Iraq.

Most seem to be from Scandinavia, but that opinion seems to be spread all over the continent.

I would really just like to line 'em up on the wall and shoot the lot, but because of laws and whatnot I must settle for annoying them with words.

As they say in Tennessee: It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your stupid, than to open it and remove any doubts.

[Webley]

You reasoning is illogical.

Japan has not been not been powerless because it is in Asia, it has been powerless because they do not have a real military to project force.

Russia extends into Europe and most of their population is there. That portion that extends into Asia has a very low population. Which is why an overpopulated China may try to take that land from Russia someday.

I never said that Europe "plays nice", too many are in support of the terrorists.

[Maine Finn]

Actually, the people who need to shut up are those Euro-trash that have been supporting the Islamic terrorists in places like Iraq.

Most seem to be from Scandinavia, but that opinion seems to be spread all over the continent.

I would really just like to line 'em up on the wall and shoot the lot, but because of laws and whatnot I must settle for annoying them with words.

Askella kevyesti, ystävä, sillä tuo on vaarallinen lausunto. Varo sanojasi.

~Emily

[Caraway]

Vedonlyöjä askel kynttilä, kaveri, että on vaarallinen ilmoitus.

~Emily

Hmm....I think you should improve your Finnish. That sentence doesn't make any sense (sorry).
Say the same thing in English so I'll translate it back to Finnish, OK? :D

Now, the direct translation of your sentence is: The guy who makes bets step a candle, a friend, that is dangerous announcement.

[Maine Finn]

Vedonlyöjä askel kynttilä, kaveri, että on vaarallinen ilmoitus.

~Emily

Hmm....I think you should improve your Finnish. That sentence doesn't make any sense (sorry).
Say the same thing in English so I'll translate it back to Finnish, OK? :D

I know it doesn't make sense. I did that on purpose, so I would sound stupider than I really am. :roll:

[Caraway]

Don't mind about it! :hug:

[Maine Finn]

Don't mind about it! :hug:

I don't. I've found that pretending to be dumb causes people to underestimate me, which allows me to use that against them.
I'm not that great with psychology, but I know enough to be somewhat dangerous. :D

[Truthsayer]

American history isn't that short Shadow. The USA are the oldest democracy in the world, their nation is older than most states of Europe.

You are kidding me, right?

[budanski]

American history isn't that short Shadow. The USA are the oldest democracy in the world, their nation is older than most states of Europe.

You are kidding me, right?

The U.S. has the oldest constitution still in use with Norway coming in second.

[Truthsayer]

Appels and bananas again.

If we are talking constitution, are we talking un-touched? Or practically the same, even though it's timestamp at another date due to political reasons?

And are we talking about real-life democracy, parlamential system, electorial system, or just public representation in chambers? ;)


It's just so funny when someone posts something like that, since it hints that the US somehow was the first goverment to have 'true democracy' and so on. This when the US is on of the younger of the larger western countries. Small ***** complex? ;)

[cut]

American history isn't that short Shadow. The USA are the oldest democracy in the world, their nation is older than most states of Europe.

You are kidding me, right?

The U.S. has the oldest constitution still in use with Norway coming in second.

Democracy is not limited to the constitution. The UK has no actual paper called "the constitution", yet it is a democracy. Also the french have had several constitutions only because the people have decided to change them, real democracy in action.

[budanski]

Name me another democracy intact that is older than.

[cut]

Name me another democracy intact that is older than.

France, it's a democracy, it's intact and older.

[budanski]

Sorry but the French Revolution happened after the creation of the U.S.

[cut]

Sorry but the French Revolution happened after the creation of the U.S.

ah ****, I never noticed that before. Don't worry, I have a back up, can you put a date on the start of democracy in Britain? The begining of parliament? 1290 or something like that? probably not, but after the revolution when the king was killed, you could argue that.

(that's not my last gasp effort I have more to come I'm just waiting to see what you say) ;)

[Mark Sman]

Strong case for 1265 and parlimentary elections at that time.

Both US and English (later British then UK) systems disenfranchised millions of the people who lived there due to age, ***, race etc.

Don't w

[to free the oppressed]

Name me another democracy intact that is older than.
China?

[stuntman]

Name me another democracy intact that is older than.
China?
broma???? rofl

[budanski]

Sorry but the French Revolution happened after the creation of the U.S.

ah ****, I never noticed that before. Don't worry, I have a back up, can you put a date on the start of democracy in Britain? The begining of parliament? 1290 or something like that? probably not, but after the revolution when the king was killed, you could argue that.

(that's not my last gasp effort I have more to come I'm just waiting to see what you say) ;)

Sorry for the delayed response. Watching the kid tonight.

We're talking about an intact government that has gone unchanged for the past 200+ years. ie: Like clockwork, we've elected a new president every 4 years and little has changed from the original (constitution) document. 26 times to be precise and these werent changed on a whim (ammendments). The U.K. doesnt even have a constitution even though you guys are considered a constitutional monarchy. If I recalled, when the U.S. was formed, Ireland had not yet joined Great Britain to form the U.K. But if you want to talk earliest form of democracy, Iceland has got you beat. Why not go back to ancient Greece?

Long Live the Queen. ;)



Name me another democracy intact that is older than.
China?

What are you smoking again?

[Parzival]

EU most grow and conquer the world!
MOHAHAHAHAH!!!! p-)

[Shadow]

Same language (except for all the Spanish places ), but very different versions of it.

Ahh and we don't speak different dialects in our countrys!:D
So this doesn't count.
Visiting America might be good if you want to waste you money in casinos,burger king or go surfing or other fun stuff. But where is your culture?

Guess, why Germany Italy France and other Europeen Countrys have the most UNESCO World Heritages in the world?


Germany
Aachener Dom (K/1978)
Speyerer Dom (K/1981)
Würzburger Residenz (K/1981)
Wallfahrtskirche "Die Wies" (K/1983)
Schlösser Augustusburg und Falkenlust in Brühl (K/1984)
Dom und Michaeliskirche von Hildesheim (K/1985)
Römische Baudenkmäler, Dom und Liebfrauenkirche in Trier (K/1986)
Hansestadt Lübeck (K/1987)
Schlösser und Parks von Potsdam-Sanssouci und Berlin (Glienicke und Pfaueninsel) (K/1990)
ehem. Benediktiner-Abtei Lorsch mit ehem. Kloster Altenmünster (K/1991)
Bergwerk Rammelsberg und Altstadt von Goslar (K/1992)
Altstadt von Bamberg (K/1993)
Kloster Maulbronn (K/1993)
Stiftskirche, Schloss und Altstadt von Quedlinburg (K/1994)
Völklinger Hütte (K/1994)
Fossilienlagerstätte Grube Messel (N/1995)
Das Bauhaus und seine Stätten in Weimar und Dessau (K/1996)
Kölner Dom (K/1996)
Luthergedenkstätten in Eisleben und Wittenberg (K/1996)
Klassisches Weimar (K/1998)
Wartburg (K/1999)
Berliner Museumsinsel (K/1999)
Gartenreich Dessau-Wörlitz (K/2000)
Klosterinsel Reichenau im Bodensee (K/2000)
Industriekomplex Zeche Zollverein in Essen (K/2001)
Altstädte von Stralsund und Wismar (K/2002)
Oberes Mittelrheintal (K/2002)

France
Kathedrale von Chartres (K/1979)
Höhlenmalereien im Tal der Vézère (K/1979)
Mont St. Michel und seine Bucht (K/1979)
Schloss und Park von Versailles (K/1979)
Abteikirche und Stadthügel von Vézelay (K/1979)
Kathedrale von Amiens (K/1981)
ehem. Zisterzienserabtei Fontenay (K/1981)
Schloss und Park von Fontainebleau (K/1981)
Römische und romanische Denkmäler von Arles (K/1981)
Amphitheater und Triumphbogen von Orange (K/1981)
Königliche Salinen von Arc-et-Senans (K/1982)
Place Stanislas, Place de la Carrière und Place d'Alliance in Nancy (K/1983)
Kirche von Saint-Savin-sur-Gartempe (K/1983)
Kap Girolata, Cap Porto, Naturschutzgebiet Scandola und die Piana Calanques auf Korsika (N/1983)
Römischer Aquädukt Pont du Gard (K/1985)
Straßburg, Grand Ile (historisches Zentrum) (K/1988)
Seineufer in Paris zwischen Pont de Sully und Pont d'Iéna (K/1991)
Reims: Kathedrale, Palais du Tau und Kloster Saint Remi (K/1991)
Kathedrale von Bourges (K/1992)
Papstpalast mit umliegendem historischen Ensemble in Avignon (K/1995)
Canal du Midi (K/1996)
Carcassonne (K/1997)
Berglandschaft Mont Perdu in den Pyrenäen (K/N/GÜ/1997)
Pilgerwege nach Santiago de Compostela (K/1998)
Historische Stätten in Lyon (K/1998)
Bezirk Saint-Emilion (K/1999)
Loiretal zwischen Maine und Sully-sur-Loire (K/2000)*
* Das Schloss Chambord (K/1981) ist Teil dieser Welterbestätte
Mittelalterliche Handelsstadt Provins (K/2001)

Greece
Apollontempel von Bassae (K/1986)
Delphi (Apollonheiligtum) (K/1987)
Akropolis von Athen (K/1987)
Berg Athos (K/N/1988)
Meteora-Klöster (K/N/1988)
Frühchristliche und byzantinische Denkmäler von Saloniki (K/1988)
Antike Stadt Epidauros (K/1988)
Rhodos, mittelalterliche Stadt (K/1988)
Ruinen von Olympia (K/1989)
Mystras (K/1989)
Insel Delos (K/1990)
Klöster Daphni (bei Athen), Hosios Lukas (bei Delphi) und Nea Moni (Insel Chios) (K/1990)
Pythagoreion und Heraion von Samos (K/1992)
Archäologische Stätte Vergina (K/1996)
Archäologische Stätten von Mykene und Tiryns (K/1999)
Altstadt (Chorá) mit dem Kloster des Hl. Johannes und der Höhle der Apokalypse auf der Insel Patmos (K/1999)

UK
Die "Straße der Riesen" (Giant's Causeway) und ihre Küste (N/1986)
Burg und Kathedrale von Durham (K/1986)
Industriedenkmäler im Tal von Ironbridge (K/1986)
Königlicher Park von Studley mit den Ruinen von Fountains Abbey (K/1986)
Stonehenge, Avebury und zugehörige Denkmäler der Megalith-Kultur (K/1986)
Burgen und befestigte Städte König Edwards I. in der Grafschaft Gwynedd (Wales) (K/1986)
Inselgruppe St. Kilda (N/1986)
Schloss Blenheim (K/1987)
Stadt Bath (K/1987)
Hadrianswall (K/1987)
Westminster (Palast und Abtei) und Margaretenkirche in London (K/1987)
Südseeinsel Henderson Island (N/1988)
Tower von London (K/1988)
Kathedrale, ehemalige Abtei St. Augustin und St. Martins-Kirche in Canterbury (K/1988)
Edinburgh (K/1995)
Wildreservat der Insel Gough (N/1995)
Queen's House, Park und Marineschule von Greenwich (K/1997)
Jungsteinzeitliche Monumente auf den Orkney-Inseln (K/1999)
Industrielandschaft Blaenavon (K/2000)
Historische Stadt St. George mit Festungsanlagen (Bermudas) (K/2000)
Industrielandschaft Derwent Valley (K/2001)
Industriedorf Saltaire (K/2001)
Industrielle Mustersiedlung New Lanark (Schottland) (K/2001)
Küste von Dorset und Ost-Devon ("Jurassic Coast") (N/2001)
Königliche Botanische Gärten von Kew (London) (K/2003)

Italy
Felsenzeichnungen im Val Camonica (Lombardei) (K/1979)
Kirche und Dominikanerkonvent Santa Maria delle Grazie mit Leonardo da Vincis "Abendmahl" in Mailand (K/1980)
Historisches Zentrum von Rom, Basilika St. Paul "vor den Mauern" in Rom und Vatikanstadt (K/GÜ/1980)
Historisches Zentrum von Florenz (K/1982)
Venedig und seine Lagune (K/1987)
Domplatz von Pisa (K/1987)
Historisches Zentrum von San Gimignano (K/1990)
Höhlenwohnungen Sassi di Matera (K/1993)
Vicenza und die Villen Palladios in der Region Venetien (K/1994)
Historisches Zentrum von Siena (K/1995)
Historisches Zentrum von Neapel (K/1995)
Modellsiedlung Crespi d'Adda (K/1995)
Ferrara: Stadt der Renaissance (K/1995)
Castel del Monte (K/1996)
"Trulli" (Rundbauten) von Alberobello (K/1996)
Frühchristliche Baudenkmäler und Mosaike von Ravenna (K/1996)
Historisches Zentrum von Pienza (K/1996)
Königliches Schloss in Caserta mit Park, Aquaedukt und San Leucio (K/1997)
Residenzen des Hauses Savoyen in Turin und Umgebung (K/1997)
Botanischer Garten in Padua (K/1997)
Kathedrale, Torre Civica und Piazza Grande in Modena (K/1997)
Archäologische Stätten von Pompeii, Herculaneum und Torre Annunziata (K/1997)
Römische Villa von Casale (Sizilien) mit ihren Mosaiken (K/1997)
Nuraghe (bronzezeitliche Turmbauten) von Barumini (Sardinien) (K/1997)
Kulturlandschaft Portovenere und Cinque Terre (K/1997)
Kulturlandschaft Küste von Amalfi (K/1997)
Archäologische Stätten von Agrigent (K/1997)
Nationalpark Cilento und Val di Diano mit Paestum, Velia und der Kartause von Padula (K/1998)
Historisches Zentrum von Urbino (K/1998)
Archäologische Stätten und Basilika des Patriarchen von Aquileia (K/1998)
Hadriansvilla (K/1999)
Äolische Inseln (N/2000)
Assisi, Basilika und Gedenkstätten des Hl. Franziskus (K/2000)
Altstadt von Verona (K/2000)
Villa d´Este in Tivoli (K/2001)
Spätbarocke Städte des Val di Noto (Sizilien) (K/2002)
Sacri Monti ("Heilige Berge") in Piemont und der Lombardei (K/2003)

Luxemburg
Altstadtviertel und Festungen von Luxemburg (K/1994)

Netherlands
Polderlandschaft Schokland (K/1995)
Festungsgürtel von Amsterdam (K/1996)
Mühlenanlagen in Kinderdijk-Elshout (K/1997)
Hafen und Innenstadt von Willemstad (Antilleninsel Curaçao) (K/1997)
Dampfpumpwerk von Wouda in Friesland (K/1998)
Beemster Polder (K/1999)
Rietveld-Schröder-Haus in Utrecht (K/2000)

Norwegen
Stabkirche von Urnes (K/1979)
"Bryggen" (Hafenstadt von Bergen) (K/1979)
Stadt und Bergwerke von Røros (K/1980)
Felszeichnungen von Alta (K/1985)

Austria
Altstadt von Salzburg (K/1996)
Schloss und Park von Schönbrunn (K/1996)
Kulturlandschaft Hallstatt-Dachstein / Salzkammergut (K/1997)
Semmeringbahn mit umgebender Landschaft (K/1998)
Altstadt von Graz (K/1999)
Kulturlandschaft Wachau (K/2000)
Historisches Zentrum von Wien (K/2001)
Kulturlandschaft Neusiedler See (K/GÜ/2001)

Polen
Altstadt von Krakau (K/1978)
Salzbergwerk Wieliczka (K/1978)
Konzentrationslager Auschwitz (K/1979)
Altstadt von Warschau (K/1980)
Nationalpark Bialowieza (Belowescher Heide) (N/GÜ/1992)
Altstadt von Zamosc (K/1992)
Altstadt von Torun (Thorn) (K/1997)
Deutschordensschloss Malbork (Marienburg) (K/1997)
Kalvarienberg Zebrzydowska (K/1999)
Friedenskirchen in Jawor (Jauer) und Swidnica (Schweidnitz) (K/2001)
Holzkirchen im Süden von Kleinpolen (K/2003)

Portugal
Stadtzentrum von Angra do Heroísmo auf der Azoren-Insel Terceira (K/1983)
Hieronymuskloster und Turm von Belém in Lissabon (K/1983)
Kloster Batalha (K/1983)
Christuskloster in Tomar (K/1983)
Historisches Zentrum von Evora (K/1988)
Kloster Alcobaça (K/1989)
Kulturlandschaft Sintra (K/1995)
Historisches Zentrum von Porto (K/1996)
Prähistorische Felsritzungen im Tal von Côa (K/1998)
Lorbeerwald "Laurisilva" von Madeira (N/1999)
Weinregion Alto Douro (K/2001)
Historisches Zentrum von Guimarães (K/2001)

Schweden
Königliches Sommerschloss Drottningholm (K/1991)
Wikingersiedlungen Birka und Hovgården (K/1993)
Eisenhütte Engelberg (K/1993)
Felszeichnungen von Tanum (K/1994)
Skogskyrkogården (Friedhof) bei Stockholm (K/1994)
Hansestadt Visby auf der Insel Gotland (K/1995)
Kirchenbezirk Gammelstad in Luleå (K/1996)
Arktische Kulturlandschaft Lapplands (K/N/1996)
Marinehafen von Karlskrona (K/1998)
Schärenküste (N/2000)
Agrarlandschaft von Süd-Öland (K/2000)
Historische Industrielandschaft "Großer Kupferberg" in Falun (K/2001)

Swiss
Benediktinerkloster St. Gallen (K/1983)
Benediktinerkloster St. Johann in Müstair (K/1983)
Altstadt von Bern (K/1983)
Die drei Burgen von Bellinzona (K/2000)
Alpenregion Jungfrau mit Eiger und Mönch, Aletschgletscher und Bietschhorn (N/2001)
Monte San Giorgio (N/2003)

Spain
Moschee-Kathedrale und Altstadt von Córdoba (K/1984)
Altstadt von Granada, Alhambra und Generalife-Palast (K/1984)
Kathedrale von Burgos (K/1984)
Escorial (Kloster mit Umgebung) (K/1984)
Park Güell, Palais Güell und Casa Milá von Antonio Gaudí in Barcelona (K/1984)
Höhle von Altamira (K/1985)
Altstadt von Segovia mit Aquädukt (K/1985)
Kirchen des Königreiches Asturien (K/1985)
Altstadt von Santiago de Compostela (K/1985)
Altstadt von Avila und Kirchen außerhalb der Stadtmauer (K/1985)
Mudejar-Architektur in der Region Aragón (K/1986)
Altstadt von Toledo (K/1986)
Nationalpark Garajonay (Kanaren, Insel Gomera) (N/1986)
Altstadt von Cáceres (K/1986)
Kathedrale, Alcazar und Archivo de Indias in Sevilla (K/1987)
Altstadt von Salamanca (K/1988)
Ehemalige Zisterzienserabtei Poblet (K/1991)
Bauten der Römerzeit und des frühen Mittelalters in Merida (K/1993)
Königliches Kloster Santa Maria de Guadeloupe (K/1993)
Pilgerweg nach Santiago de Compostela (K/1993)
Nationalpark Doñana (Andalusien) (N/1994)
Altstadt von Cuenca (K/1996)
Seidenbörse "La Lonja de la Seda" in Valencia (K/1996)
Las Médulas mit seinen Goldminen (K/1997)
Palast der Katalanischen Musik und Hospital von Sant Pau in Barcelona (K/1997)
Klöster San Millán de Yuso und de Suso (K/1997)
Berglandschaft Mont Perdu in den Pyrenäen (K/N/GÜ/1997)
Universität und historisches Zentrum von Alcalá de Henares (K/1998)
Vorgeschichtliche Felsmalereien im östlichen Spanien (K/1998)
San Cristóbal de la Laguna (Insel Teneriffa) (K/1999)
Ibiza: Biologische Vielfalt und Kultur (K/N/1999)
Archäologische Stätten in der Sierra de Atapuerca (K/2000)
Romanische Kirchen im Vall de Boí (K/2000)
Archäologisches Ensemble von Tárraco (Tarragona) (K/2000)
Palmenhain von Elche (K/2000)
Spätrömische Befestigungsanlagen von Lugo (K/2000)
Kulturlandschaft von Aranjuez (K/2001)
Ubeda und Baeza (K/2003)

And these are not all!

Now compare this with the USA

USA
Nationalpark Mesa Verde (K/1978)
Nationalpark Yellowstone (N/1978)
Nationalpark Everglades (N/1979)
Nationalpark Grand Canyon (N/1979)
Nationalparks Kluane, Wrangell-Saint-Elias (mit kanadischem Teil) und Provinzpark Tatshenshini-Alsek (N/GÜ/1979)
Unabhängigkeitshalle in Philadelphia (K/1979)
Nationalpark Redwood (N/1980)
Nationalpark Mammuthöhlen (N/1981)
Nationalpark Olympic Mountains (N/1981)
Cahokia Mounds (vorgeschichtliche Siedlung) (K/1982)
Nationalpark Great Smoky Mountains (N/1983)
Festung La Fortaleza und Altstadt von San Juan in Puerto Rico (K/1983)
Freiheitsstatue (K/1984)
Nationalpark Yosemite (N/1984)
Monticello und Universität von Virginia in Charlottesville (K/1987)
Historischer Nationalpark Chaco (K/1987)
Nationalpark "Vulkane von Hawaii" (N/1987)
Pueblo (Indianerdorf) Taos (K/1992)
Karlsbader Höhlen-Nationalpark (N/1995)
Friedenspark Waterton Naturpark (Kanada) und Glacier Naturpark (N/GÜ/1995)

Wow! Seems like you don't have such a great culture as you thought?
lol you guys are funny!


Name me another democracy intact that is older than.
Ahh ask a afro-american person if your democracy is intact!rofl

And the greek one is older and as "intact" as yours!

[Yard Ape]

Shadow,
Do you belive culture is defined by old properties & material?

[Mark Sman]

Denali National Park = 24,584 square kilometers

Belgium = 30,519 square kilometers


Now thats comparing apples and ardvarks.

But hey, if you don't want to visit you don't have to.

http://www.wildernessvideo.com/images/C-Denali%20copy.jpg

[Kicius]

You've got oldest democracy.

And USA is the first country, which succesfully mixed democracy with the slavery.

Don't think that national park isn't a proof that your culture is superior.
It's proof that natives didn't destroy it before democracy arrived.
Like democracy did to the natives.

Happy easter.

[Elmo]

And USA is the first country, which succesfully mixed democracy with the slavery.


The Greek city-states did that as well.

Demos = a certain area, where head of family (oikos) had a vote concerning the demos...and the representatives of demos had a vote concerning the polis.

Oikos = family, consisted of head of family, wife(s?), children, slaves.

Ancient Athens consisted of 1000 polis, which consisted of demos which consisted of oikos (don't know the plural form...)

[Shadow]

Shadow,
Do you belive culture is defined by old properties & material?

Of course! That's where culture is based on!
And if not why are they called "World cultural heritage"?

@Mark Sman

It seems to me that you are really desperate.

[perdurabo]

You reasoning is illogical.

Japan has not been not been powerless because it is in Asia, it has been powerless because they do not have a real military to project force.

Russia extends into Europe and most of their population is there. That portion that extends into Asia has a very low population. Which is why an overpopulated China may try to take that land from Russia someday.

I never said that Europe "plays nice", too many are in support of the terrorists.
jeeezzzzz mate you don't you think that russias joining to EU is stopped by they GDP welth of their population and their goverment. It would be big crash for EU budget to take ukraine witch is much smaller and with ritcher population i think that in future next 20-30 years time in europe there will be 3-4 countrys and EU
Russia Belarus Jugoslavia, Albania etc. balkan countrys and Moldavia Turkey(i think they shoouldn't be invited i prefer ukraine than turkey!) Ukraine
Balkan states and Moldavia prabably be in in 40 yrs time Ukraine maybe sooner Belarus for sure no until Lukashenko in in power and they are uder great influence of russia...

[Kicius]

The Greek city-states did that as well.

Demos = a certain area, where head of family (oikos) had a vote concerning the demos...and the representatives of demos had a vote concerning the polis.

Oikos = family, consisted of head of family, wife(s?), children, slaves.

Ancient Athens consisted of 1000 polis, which consisted of demos which consisted of oikos (don't know the plural form...)




:oops:

[moughoun]

Shouldn't we all be greatful we live in a democracy, rather then comparing size sorry age :D

[Yard Ape]

Shadow,
Do you belive culture is defined by old properties & material?

Of course! That's where culture is based on!
And if not why are they called "World cultural heritage"? What about music & theater? Are they not part of culture? What about the structure of social life and the events that bring people & communities together? The traditions involved in production of food & drink?

[perdurabo]

Shadow,
Do you belive culture is defined by old properties & material?

Of course! That's where culture is based on!
And if not why are they called "World cultural heritage"? What about music & theater? Are they not part of culture?
yes they are :)
Europe:
Bach, Mozzart, Chopin....
USA:
Britney Sperms, Michel Jack(a)sson....

[Yard Ape]

If the EU wants to become a major player, superpower, military power etc. it's really going to have to put its differences aside and behave as one nation. Something they won't be able to due because of their fierce reluctancy to be assimilated into another European culture. They have identities they arn't willing to lose in order to make the EU more unified and effective.I think there is too much difference for the cultures to assimilate into one. However, protectionists could take comfort in a federal system. By leaving nations with jurisdiction over issues they all feel are most essential to define themselves, they can still maintain thier culture. It has worked in Canada where Quebec has not assimilated into the rest of the country and regional cultures have been able to develope. I suspect the EU will go more in the way of the US where individual states have even more autonomy than Canadian provinces.

[Herrmannek]

Shadow,
Do you belive culture is defined by old properties & material?

Of course! That's where culture is based on!
And if not why are they called "World cultural heritage"? What about music & theater? Are they not part of culture?
yes they are :)
Europe:
Bach, Mozzart, Chopin....
USA:
Britney Sperms, Michel Jack(a)sson....
What about Blues?

[perdurabo]

If the EU wants to become a major player, superpower, military power etc. it's really going to have to put its differences aside and behave as one nation. Something they won't be able to due because of their fierce reluctancy to be assimilated into another European culture. They have identities they arn't willing to lose in order to make the EU more unified and effective.I think there is too much difference for the cultures to assimilate into one. However, protectionists could take comfort in a federal system. By leaving nations with jurisdiction over issues they all feel are most essential to define themselves, they can still maintain thier culture. It has worked in Canada where Quebec has not assimilated into the rest of the country and regional cultures have been able to develope. I suspect the EU will go more in the way of the US where individual states have even more autonomy than Canadian provinces.
but whole EU idea is about not assimilating but protecting cultural diffrences!! look at EU regulations about culture.

[Mark Sman]

It seems to me that you are really desperate.

Err, no.


Don't think that national park isn't a proof that your culture is superior.

I was just going looky looky. Didn't know it was a superiority contest. I've been to Europe, Asia, Africa, North and South America. I've generally appeciated my time in each of these places.

Do as you please. If you never visit America it will mean absolutely nothing to me. I will continue to enjoy the world.

[Yard Ape]

but whole EU idea is about not assimilating but protecting cultural diffrences!! look at EU regulations about culture.Read the qoute you've copied again. I have just explained how a federal system will protect that culture. Greater autonomy is only greater protection.

However, short of closing the boarders & banning foriegn media (including radio & television) there is no 100% barrier to prevent ideas & social norms from being shared between cultures. Federalism is the best option within a single country.

[Yard Ape]

What about Blues? and Jazz, and Rock.

[Herrmannek]

What about Blues? and Jazz, and Rock.

I'm not qualified in that field :( but doesn't rock is a kind of blues mutation and jazz is also close related to blues. I think that one is subset of other? I never was good at such qualifications, but thanks to God it doesn't matter when you enjoy music.....

[Yard Ape]

What about Blues? and Jazz, and Rock.

I'm not qualified in that field :( but doesn't rock is a kind of blues mutation and jazz is also close related to blues. I think that one is subset of other? I never was good at such qualifications, but thanks to God it doesn't matter when you enjoy music.....Yes, they are all evolutions of the same. I could mention country . . . but, I don't know if that's a good or bad argument in support of US culture. :lol:

[HELEX]

Well, Rock and Jazz helped very much to win the german Hearts and Minds after war in that time. Maybe the Insurgency is Britneys fault? :lol:

[ibstolidude]

Shadow,
Do you belive culture is defined by old properties & material?

Of course! That's where culture is based on!
And if not why are they called "World cultural heritage"? What about music & theater? Are they not part of culture?
yes they are :)
Europe:
Bach, Mozzart, Chopin....
USA:
Britney Sperms, Michel Jack(a)sson....
That was a stupid comment.

I don't like either of those 2 however, who is more popular in the world of the 2 listings you posted?

[Jehuty]

Shouldn't we all be greatful we live in a democracy, rather then comparing size sorry age :D

:hug:

[Backis]

That was a stupid comment.

Yes.



I don't like either of those 2 however, who is more popular in the world of the 2 listings you posted?

Who of them will be remembered in another hundred years? Not Britney&Co...

[ibstolidude]

That was a stupid comment.

Yes.



I don't like either of those 2 however, who is more popular in the world of the 2 listings you posted?

Who of them will be remembered in another hundred years? Not Britney&Co...

as much as I dislike the idea - M Jackson liely will be remember in 100 years and liely commonly taught in music courses

[haze99]

Who in Europe, in 1930 could have envisioned World War 2? Or seen a NATO "pact" evolve after it?
Who would have believed that Communism would spread and take over several nations in the late 1940's, thus creating a Warsaw Pact?
And of us right now, would have thought that East Germany or the Warsaw Pact would become history? *Erich Honecker (EG leader) said, the Berlin Wall would stand for 100 years! It only lasted 28!
Well, look at the last 10 years, the EU was formed, PFP (Partnership for Peace) excerises began, one currency (Euro) is almost standard. And now 7 former WP countries are now in NATO! So it is not a far stretch, to see the EU becoming a superpower.

[cut]

Sorry but the French Revolution happened after the creation of the U.S.

ah ****, I never noticed that before. Don't worry, I have a back up, can you put a date on the start of democracy in Britain? The begining of parliament? 1290 or something like that? probably not, but after the revolution when the king was killed, you could argue that.

(that's not my last gasp effort I have more to come I'm just waiting to see what you say) ;)

Sorry for the delayed response. Watching the kid tonight.

We're talking about an intact government that has gone unchanged for the past 200+ years. ie: Like clockwork, we've elected a new president every 4 years and little has changed from the original (constitution) document. 26 times to be precise and these werent changed on a whim (ammendments). The U.K. doesnt even have a constitution even though you guys are considered a constitutional monarchy. If I recalled, when the U.S. was formed, Ireland had not yet joined Great Britain to form the U.K. But if you want to talk earliest form of democracy, Iceland has got you beat. Why not go back to ancient Greece?

Long Live the Queen. ;)



the longest intact government unchanged for the past 200+ years does not constitute democracy, if the people change the constitution that is more democratic than not.

The queen is the head of a fully* democratic state get your head round that! ;)

* by current standards.

Universal suffrage was seen as a major part in becoming a democracy, only allowing white men, and before that only rich white men shouldn't be seen as democracy in my opinion.

[radon]

I am once again too late. :cantbeli:
But the different versions of english in America don't count . Differenct accents and habits exist within every country. The foreigner's in America , there are many foreigners in Europe too. Maybe the only thing in what Americans are that more multicultural is not the different number of cultural groups but they are more mixed in America.

[Caraway]

You are not too late, man. When it comes to "multiculturalism" I hope that it is more assimilation than integration.

[Yard Ape]

I hope that it is more assimilation than integration.Across Europe or within each country?

[Caraway]

I hope that it is more assimilation than integration.Across Europe or within each country?

You got me! :D (and the whole EU)

[Yard Ape]

...nor it will become anykind of superpower. It is because we don't have one language. It is because we don't have a one nation. ... It is because we have nothing incommon with ourselves.


I hope that it is more assimilation than integration.Across Europe or within each country?

You got me! :D (and the whole EU)
It seems that the biggest stumbling block will not be that you have nothing in common. It will be that people fear that union may eventually remove all your differences. People fear their values being replaced by their neighbours.
. . . a pan-European assimilation.

Is this a legitimate fear?