US offers Falluja a truce?

[Trident-za]

http://www.*******.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=5OSCYOJY0D1A2CRBAEOCFFA?type=topNews&storyID=4795831&section=news


The U.S. military offered a new cease-fire deal in the Sunni town of Falluja, west of Baghdad, after nearly a week of fighting that has killed hundreds of people.

"Coalition forces are prepared to implement a cease-fire with enemy elements in Falluja commencing at noon today," Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt told a news conference.



That's quite suprising.... political pressure from above? Or have they decided Falluja can't be "taken" without too many casaulites - both military and civilian? Or maybe the fallout of taking Falluja, in terms of hearts and minds, makes it dangerous? Opinions?

[HELEX]

I think it is a mix of all these arguments....

[Mark Sman]

There could would be some conditions, I'm sure.

[Obergefreiter]

Probably a mix of many reasons. Hearts & Minds and other things. Damage to the city has reortedly been high. Enemy looses has reportedly been extreemly high.

If this continues it will look like a masacre. Not good PR to the Arab world. Since this town lead such a privilaged life under Hussien, I am not sure the Iraqi people care as much as the rest of the Arabs. A large number of the ememy dead have reportedly been foreign.

[budanski]

It was at the request of the Iraqi Governing Council.

[UkrainianAmerican]

WOW!
WTF!
Why are we negotiating with these ass-hats?
That will only convince them that terrorism pays off.

[HELEX]

Why are we negotiating with these ass-hats?

Because the Grandayatolla said to stop the Killing or he will get pissed. And if the coalition looses his support they loose Iraq at the same second.

[usa320]

I agree... dont think this is the right thing to do. After what they did to those PMC's- the desecrating and all- i think the least we can do for their families is to Hunt down and punish those who are responsible. Starting with Sadr.

Shouldnt jump to conclusions though, as im betting there are conditions. The truce is probably only with the former baathists and NOT with the Al Mahdi militia.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Well since Fallujah is a Sunni stronghold and the AL Mehdi Militia are Shia that would be a pretty safe guess

[Trident-za]

Well since Fallujah is a Sunni stronghold and the AL Mehdi Militia are Shia that would be a pretty safe guess

rofl rofl

Back to serious issues....

Thanks Budanski for pointing that out - I see now that some members of the Iraqi council were threatening to quit unless a "negotiation" took place.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Why are we negotiating with these ass-hats?

Because the Grandayatolla said to stop the Killing or he will get pissed. And if the coalition looses his support they loose Iraq at the same second.
Well if thats the case, the Ayatola shmola is not a big ally to begin with.
So FCUK him, and FCUK the ungrateful Shiite bitches.

[HELEX]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/jd/2004/jd040409.gif

[UkrainianAmerican]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/jd/2004/jd040409.gif
Done Jerking off yet?
:bash:

[101st__and_1/2]

http://www.umbc.edu/saf/sanews/volume2/world%20trade%20center%20fire.jpg

Maybe some of you have forgotten this, but i say burn falluja to the ground. screw this politically correct bull.[/img] :fork:

[Ratamacue]

Maybe some of you have forgotten this, but i say burn falluja to the ground. screw this politically correct bull.[/img] :fork:

Great solution. :cantbeli:

[HELEX]

Maybe some of you have forgotten this, but i say burn falluja to the ground. screw this politically correct bull.

Nobody has forgotten that.... and that Iraq is in no way related to it.... :cantbeli:

[Gordon]

eh ... right mate, lucky you're not in charge isn't it.

[Hydro]

Thank Christ 101st and a half isn't a military planner. Raze Fallujah to the ground, and the Coalition is SCREWED. Iraq is so much bigger than petty revenge. As for Al Qaeda and the WTC, AQ are getting raped almost everyday, and with the free world against them, they and their kind are living on borrowed time.

[khukuri]

I think us needs time to reethink how to handle the situation.
Sistani on the other hand is doing a good job.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Maybe some of you have forgotten this, but i say burn falluja to the ground. screw this politically correct bull.

Nobody has forgotten that.... and that Iraq is in no way related to it.... :cantbeli:
Tell that to the Chech Intelligence community.

[Lysander]

:fork:

:cantbeli:

I don't think anyone forgot. I'm pretty sure that's why Afghanistan is not under Taliban rule anymore and AQ is on the run.

[obd]

HAHAHHA ROFLMAO....Hey HELEX, for ounce you have actually posted something that rings true. I might hate you and wish you would just get hit by a car or slip in the shower and break your spine and then drown in a few milimeters of water one day and vanish but even so I'm not the type of person who isnt willing to admit a great post from an enemy when I see it....Awesome comic man.....its just funny on so many levels......thanks. (for real). Good laugh.

Honestly though, the last thing the coalition needs is for Shiites and Sunni's to band together....whats really funny is that its the last thing they should want too!! If America were to be bloodied up enough to decide it wasnt worth it then they really would suffer a bloody civil war most likely supported by Shiite Iran on one side and Sunni Saudi Arabia on the other........

hmmmm now that I think about it, maybe that would be a good thing....keep our enemies fighting eachother and sell them military hardware while at the same tme raising oil prices enough to get Americans off thier fat asses and riding bikes and maybe even bring about the widespread use of gas-electric cars!!!!! Its a win win situation....haha (in case your too dense, I am being sarcastic).

[obd]

Waite a second, but if that happened than what would all the rich asses who buy SUV's so they can look cool going back and forth to the grocery store and the dumb women who buy them so they can intimidate everyone around them do????? Oh my god, it would be horrible...Can you imagine Americans actually having to conserve? I mean, drive cars that get more than 15 miles per gallon on the hgihway......Oh my God we better stabalize Iraq before we lose the SUV...........

[Flagg]

obd wrote:


I might hate you and wish you would just get hit by a car or slip in the shower and break your spine and then drown in a few milimeters of water one day and vanish

In a word.......inappropriate

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

http://www.umbc.edu/saf/sanews/volume2/world%20trade%20center%20fire.jpg

Maybe some of you have forgotten this, but i say burn falluja to the ground. screw this politically correct bull.[/img] :fork:

I hate to break the news to you buddy, but Iraq didnt attack the United States. Al-Queda did, and they happened to be in Afghanistan, hence why American soldiers and many other countries soldiers are in A-stan. If you truely believe that the US went to war with Iraq over 9-11 I would like you to punch yourself in the nuts, the plan to go to war with Iraq was already in the works before 9-11....

[budanski]

http://www.umbc.edu/saf/sanews/volume2/world%20trade%20center%20fire.jpg

Maybe some of you have forgotten this, but i say burn falluja to the ground. screw this politically correct bull.[/img] :fork:

I hate to break the news to you buddy, but Iraq didnt attack the United States. Al-Queda did, and they happened to be in Afghanistan, hence why American soldiers and many other countries soldiers are in A-stan. If you truely believe that the US went to war with Iraq over 9-11 I would like you to punch yourself in the nuts, the plan to go to war with Iraq was already in the works before 9-11....

I hate to break THIS to you. In case you've been hanging with OBL in a cave, There is this "War on Terrorism" the US is involved in and Iraq happens to be next in line after Al Qaeda to be dealt with. Germany did not attack Pearl Harbor yet the U.S. went to war with them.

[TALOS]

http://www.umbc.edu/saf/sanews/volume2/world%20trade%20center%20fire.jpg

Maybe some of you have forgotten this, but i say burn falluja to the ground. screw this politically correct bull.[/img] :fork:

I hate to break the news to you buddy, but Iraq didnt attack the United States. Al-Queda did, and they happened to be in Afghanistan, hence why American soldiers and many other countries soldiers are in A-stan. If you truely believe that the US went to war with Iraq over 9-11 I would like you to punch yourself in the nuts, the plan to go to war with Iraq was already in the works before 9-11....

I hate to break THIS to you. In case you've been hanging with OBL in a cave, There is this "War on Terrorism" the US is involved in and Iraq happens to be next in line after Al Qaeda to be dealt with. Germany did not attack Pearl Harbor yet the U.S. went to war with them.
Sorry Bastard but he's right, Iraq was always on the list even before 9/11 but thats because it was "alleged" to have been involved in at least the funding of terrorist attacks for some time now. Therefore Iraq = war on terrorism.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I dont deny Saddam was ever behind supporting terrorists as I did do quite an extensive post on this subject before. He was support Hamas and other groups by sending money to the suicide bombers familys ect ect.

But Iraq was planned to be invaded before 9-11 happened, after 9-11 it just became another reason to go in Iraq. It didnt become the "main" reason, as there is other countrys who still support terrorism that America is allied with.

[budanski]

So you were just content with the U.S. still stuck with "no-fly zone" duties and U.S. wasting resources by keeping troops in Saudi Arabia? If you recalled, Saddam was the reason why the U.S. was stationed there in the first place. We all know how much the arabs loved having U.S. troops in Mecca. :roll: What do you know, Saddam's not around anymore and we pulled out of Mecca. Give it a few more years, we'll be out of Iraq (hopefully) as well.

[Trident-za]

I agree with most of the above - I don't think, however, that 9/11 can be used to justify flattening Falluja without regard to civilians and/or the political consequences. Sorry, maybe I'm not bloodthirsty enough :oops:

[Yard Ape]

WOW!
WTF!
Why are we negotiating with these ass-hats?
That will only convince them that terrorism pays off.Will it? Many of these ass-hats are insurgents (not terrorists), those who killed & mutilated the security workers were murderes (still not terrorists), and some in the city may be terrorists (but they are most assuredly the smallest group).

But, for arguments sake, lets say that part of the negotiations include permissions for US soldiers to search homes for weapons & criminals. lets suppose that, as part of any agreement reached, the city must hand over individuals identified in the pictures. And lastly, lets imagine that few people will be killed on all sides. Could this not be win-win?


http://www.umbc.edu/saf/sanews/volume2/world%20trade%20center%20fire.jpg

Maybe some of you have forgotten this, but i say burn falluja to the ground. screw this politically correct bull. :fork: I think you have forgotten. When that happened, the US did not curl into a ball & cry because AQ would destroy the nation. The US went to war.

If you are ready to do something that is equivalent or worse to Fallujah, then you can expect the wave of horror across the Islamic world will bring more of this:
http://www.umbc.edu/saf/sanews/volume2/world%20trade%20center%20fire.jpg

[budanski]

My take on the "insurgents" in Fallujah? Who do you think have more to lose with a democratic Iraq? Look to both sides. Iran and Syria of course. There was a report a few days ago that U.S. captured over 50 non-iraqi foreigners. I doubt the iraqi borders are well guarded enough to prevent these insurgence from both countries to come in and destabilize Iraq. Sadr is the least of the U.S. worries and should be more concerned on what Iran and Syria is up to.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I don't think, however, that 9/11 can be used to justify flattening Falluja without regard to civilians and/or the political consequences.

Yup you flatten Falluja you are officially no better then them. Quite the sticky situation really.

[obd]

Hey Flagg, I know what your gonna say, considering my opposition to the anti-semetic title of that other post but come on man, that comment was so very clearly a joke and was directed at HELEX and nobody else at all so why dont you leave it up to him to either tell me it was offensive to him (in which case I will gladly edit it) or just decide to take it as it is (a joke) and relax......

I actually managed to bring myself to say something postive to HELEX....sort of. Breaking down walls man, breaking down walls...dont get in the way of my recovery hehehhe......peace.

[101st__and_1/2]

I'm glad to see that my patriotic (while impossible) solution was taken with such zeal (for good or bad) i like insighting opinionative conversation once and a while, keeps us all on our toes. We really don't have too many options in Iraq. Either get out completely, and let them evolve into the ****e theocracy they so baddly want, or we stay in and make examples out of cities like falluja, and the opposition that they incite. While making examples isn't exactly popular, thats what their doing to us. Their setting examples for the entire world that anybody who trys to controll them will be met by, well, terrorism. this is a crappy stance to be in because any attempt thats less than perfect at ending terrorism will result in more terrorism.
And as for 9/11, can anybody honestly say that bush would have done a single solitary thing other than back the U.N. had 9/11 never happened? thats what i thought.

[TALOS]

I agree with most of the above - I don't think, however, that 9/11 can be used to justify flattening Falluja without regard to civilians and/or the political consequences. Sorry, maybe I'm not bloodthirsty enough :oops:
I didnt mean to say that I supported flattening Falluja, just that Iraqs govt certainly was believed by many intelligence agancies to support terro orgs and therefore was a legitimate target, they just had other aspects that made them more juicy to go after now while leaving other countries for later. Hopefully things will turn out ok in Iraq and set a good precedent for other terro supporting countries. I think Libya looks promising in the reform department but one never knows.

This was merely an opinion brought to you by a MotherCanucker who hopes for an end to the madness.....

[Spearin]

I haven't read all of your posts, but a few stood out and I have to agree with. Here is my opinion on the matter:

Ceasefire is a good thing. Let the troops gather their senses (yes, they may be 'killing machines' to you, but they are in fact human). This whole 'uprising' has probably taken a toll, not only with casualties.

The US is fighting a Counter-Insurgency (obviously). These insurgents are not 'terrorists' or merely 'thugs and criminals,' despite what the Media or higher ups say (come on, have some bloody common sense). The US can afford this ceasefire. Why? As mentioned, the whole 'Hearts and Minds' campaign of letting women and children out and aid into the city.

Mao's four simple tactical rules for Guerrilla Warfare include:

1. If the enemy advances, retreat.
2. If the enemy halts, harass him.
3. If the enemy avoids battle, attack him.
4. If the enemy retreats, follow him.

As you can see, during this ceasefire, this whole situation of the Iraqis attacking (which they should and probably are doing) also might come to a stop. Even if they break the ceasefire, I'm sure the US can handle these attacks if they come. Plus, being the all mighty and powerful military that they are, can roll right back into the city and take it whenever they want. They can even conduct some reconnaissance in the meantime.

The whole media and political burdens are such a hassle for commanders on the ground in this whole mess. War is dirty. Especially when you're fighting Guerrillas who do not necessarily have any rules of engagement. Women, children, and the elderly will die. Civilian and religious sites will be damaged. It is inevitable. Unfortunately, these have to have a negative affect on our perception of things.

Just my two cents on this matter.

[Ichhabe]

http://www.umbc.edu/saf/sanews/volume2/world%20trade%20center%20fire.jpg

Maybe some of you have forgotten this, but i say burn falluja to the ground. screw this politically correct bull.[/img] :fork:

I hate to break the news to you buddy, but Iraq didnt attack the United States. Al-Queda did, and they happened to be in Afghanistan, hence why American soldiers and many other countries soldiers are in A-stan. If you truely believe that the US went to war with Iraq over 9-11 I would like you to punch yourself in the nuts, the plan to go to war with Iraq was already in the works before 9-11....

I hate to break THIS to you. In case you've been hanging with OBL in a cave, There is this "War on Terrorism" the US is involved in and Iraq happens to be next in line after Al Qaeda to be dealt with. Germany did not attack Pearl Harbor yet the U.S. went to war with them.

I hate to breake THESE historical facts to you. But the USA never weant to war with Germany.
It was the Germans that decleared war on the USA.

[HELEX]

It was the Germans that decleared war on the USA.

Wrong, the US declared War to Germany.

[Haiw]

It was the Germans that decleared war on the USA.

Wrong, the US declared War to Germany.
Nope, Ichhabe is right. Germany declared war on the US right after Pearl Harbour. This was basically a gift from the gods for Roosevelt who wanted to go fight the nazi's but couldn't really get the support for it. Yet when Hitler declared war on the US he just solved that problem for Roosevelt.

[HELEX]

Stupid me, mixed some things....

Ideology in the US was quite near to the german one at that time, just think about the american Program to sterilize retards and criminals.

[BlackRain]

The German Charge d'Affaires, Dr. Hans Thomsen, and the First Secretary of the German Embassy, Mr. von Strempel, called at the State Department at 8:00 A.M. on December 11, 1941 to deliver a note declaring war.

The USA responded and declared war on Germany on December 11, 1941.


To the Congress of the United States:

On the morning of Dec. 11 the Government of Germany, pursuing its course of world conquest, declared war against the United States. The long-known and the long-expected has thus taken place. The forces endeavoring to enslave the entire world now are moving toward this hemisphere. Never before has there been a greater challenge to life, liberty and civilization. Delay invites great danger. Rapid and united effort by all of the peoples of the world who are determined to remain free will insure a world victory of the forces of justice and of righteousness over the forces of savagery and of barbarism. Italy also has declared war against the United States.

I therefore request the Congress to recognize a state of war between the United States and Germany, and between the United States and Italy.

Franklin D. Roosevelt