GSG-9 members captured in IRAQ

[Marmot1]

2 GSG-9 members were captured by insurgents near Falluja.
one 25 years old secon 38

Source ARD/ZDF

[mustamato]

Wait a minute, isn´t GSG-9 from Germany, what are they doing in Iraq?

[duck]

Most probably advising the local Embassy on security issues.

[Marmot1]

Wait a minute, isn´t GSG-9 from Germany, what are they doing in Iraq?
Protecting german contractors and embassy

[Tributal]

Wait a minute, isn´t GSG-9 from Germany, what are they doing in Iraq?Grenzschutzgruppe 9... So Germany are expanding their borders that far south? ;)

[Haiw]

Wait a minute, isn´t GSG-9 from Germany, what are they doing in Iraq?Grenzschutzgruppe 9... So Germany are expanding their borders that far south? ;)
Well IIRC embassy grounds are considered as sovereign grounds, so the German embassy is German territory, the wall propably being the border. So they wouldn't be out of place... ;)

[Tributal]

Wait a minute, isn´t GSG-9 from Germany, what are they doing in Iraq?Grenzschutzgruppe 9... So Germany are expanding their borders that far south? ;)Well IIRC embassy grounds are considered as sovereign grounds, so the German embassy is German territory, the wall propably being the border. So they wouldn't be out of place... ;)C'mon, don't ruin my jokes with obvious facts. No fun. :(

[Catch22]

Should we expect then German govt. will send KSK to rescue GSG? (KSK mission is to protect and rescue oppressed German citizens abroad if I remember right) rofl

Anyway I hope these guys will be safe... :|

[Marmot1]

Should we expect then German govt. will send KSK to rescue GSG? (KSK mission is to protect and rescue oppressed German citizens abroad if I remember right) rofl

Anyway I hope these guys will be safe... :|
And then Bundeswehr to rescue GSG and KSK. Secret Plan how to enter Iraq and justify it... ? rofl

[Haiw]

Should we expect then German govt. will send KSK to rescue GSG? (KSK mission is to protect and rescue oppressed German citizens abroad if I remember right) rofl

Anyway I hope these guys will be safe... :|
And then Bundeswehr to rescue GSG and KSK. Secret Plan how to enter Iraq and justify it... ? rofl
KSK is a Bundeswehr unit. BTW I don't know who has which mission and where, but IIRC the ones who were sent to the Sahara a while back in case they had to do a rescue attempt for the hostages were GSG-9 guys, so I wouldn't say any rescue missions abroad are a KSK job.

[HELEX]

They are likely dead, according to ministry off inner affairs.

[seruriermarshal]

Now I hope more news about this event .

[Kitsune]

In the US the Marines are tasked with the protection of American embassies. In Germany it is the Bundesgrenzschutz (BGS) who has this responsibilty.
Since Iraq is considered especially dangerous, they make enhanced use of the very best to ensure protection...in the case of the BGS it is the Grenzschutzgruppe 9 (GSG 9). AFAIK the two captured ones were part of a protection team for a diplomatic convoi, who has been attacked some days ago. While the rest of the convoi made it to safety those two were missing since then.
Alas, being superbly trained does not guarantee that you get in no trouble. You could see it with those Blackwater guys ("civilians" :roll: ), who were actually tough fellas (at least one of them an ex-SEAL). I hope that the two GSG 9 operators do not meet a similar end.

If they are captured one will try to negotiate with the silent help of BND. Using a KSK (or GSG 9?) strike team will be a last resort only. If they are dead then RIP.

**** happens.
:(

[duck]

I don't think the Social Democrats and especially the Green Party in government can allow military means to be used in Iraq. Most likely would be a political solution, i.e the German government promises to withdraw all its citizens from Iraq and not to send troops.

[HELEX]

Most likely would be a political solution, i.e the German government promises to withdraw all its citizens from Iraq and not to send troops.

Thats BS, nobody will ask for doing that :cantbeli:

[EchoSierra2]

2 GSG-9 members were captured by insurgents near Falluja.
one 25 years old secon 38

Source ARD/ZDF

Hmmm, I thought it was decided that they would only operate with in german borders. This is serious news tho. No doubt a world conflict is brewing in the near future.

[Imshi-Yallah]

GSG9 has operated overseas on more than one occasion despite it being illegal for them to do so.
The KSKs primary mission is the rescue and relief of German citizens overseas.

[HELEX]

Their vehicle was hit by a RPG according to new Info, an Eyewitness said its unlikely they survived.

[Tributal]

GSG9 has operated overseas on more than one occasion despite it being illegal for them to do so.
The KSKs primary mission is the rescue and relief of German citizens overseas.Correct me if I'm wrong, but the GSG 9 is not military, but police. And as such they are allowed to conduct police operations in other countries to protect German citizens/interests. As Haiw stated earlier (while so bluntly killing my joke) if would be perfectly legal for them to come to the rescue of German embassy personnel.

Actually, it is probably much easier to convince a foreign nation to agree to GSG 9 coming for a visit during a hostage situation etc, than trying to send a military unit.

[MaDuce]

It used to be legal for them to operate overseas but not for 10+ years now. Sending a police unit overseas to protect your citizens is some what confusing as that duty useally falls to the military.

[Tributal]

It used to be legal for them to operate overseas but not for 10+ years now.Damn, I'm getting old.



Sending a police unit overseas to protect your citizens is some what confusing as that duty useally falls to the military.Depends on the situation, and on the nation in question. Some nations use LE units for hostage ops on foreign soil, whereas others have military units tagged for that job.

The U.S. tends to put on a "big show" whereas other nations don't have the resources to deploy troops, and therefore a smaller LE unit is better served for their needs.

[deutschersoldat]

they only safed the german embassy

[2RHPZ]

Ie., Czech republic sent their National Police CT Unit (URNA - http://www.military.cz/special_forces/urna/urn.htm - only on Czech, sorry :( but some cool pix) to guard CZ embassy in Baghdad as well. Not every countries let Military to deal with everything abroad. Although there is some discuss among the lawyers about that - policemen could get themselves to problems (allegedly) if they hit and hurt someone behind the walls, they don´t have this same ROEs and mandat as soldiers. Also I have heard that URNA members have particulars problems to deal with coalition - they are not soldiers.

[mack pl]

Polish embassy in Baghdad was protect by GROM commandos, but only few weeks after war.At the moment our embassy are protect by BOR(something like Secret service)-its part of ours Ministry of Interior.

[usa320]

How the hell does some of the most high skilled Counter Terrorism commandos get taken prisoner by a ragtag militia???

My guess is strict German ROE to protect Germany from political fallout.

[FuturePara]

Did this happen earlier in the week or just today?
Are there any German hostages, someone told me there were?

[HELEX]

How the hell does some of the most high skilled Counter Terrorism commandos get taken prisoner by a ragtag militia???

My guess is strict German ROE to protect Germany from political fallout.

Their vehicle was hit by a RPG, they are dead.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Being well trained doesn't make you invincible

[EchoSierra2]

Being well trained doesn't make you invincible

Hear, Hear! "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!"

[aeternum]

How the hell does some of the most high skilled Counter Terrorism commandos get taken prisoner by a ragtag militia???

My guess is strict German ROE to protect Germany from political fallout.

Their vehicle was hit by a RPG, they are dead.

Basing on the latest news thats correct. Their job was to protect the embassy staff and they did serve their assignment well, as all others reached their designated destination. hThey paid the highest price, they payed with their lives to protect others. I say, job well done and RIP.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Amen

[mack pl]

RIP :(

[UkrainianAmerican]

Yeah, Rest in Peace.

[obd]

Hey I just read an updated report through my ISP's newswire based on Rueters. Its only available to users of that ISP so here is the link but if you dont use the ISP (AOL) than you cant view it (sorry all) http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20040410060909990001

According to latest reports, German government has acknowledged this abduction and according to witnesses the two men did survive the RPG attack and they were seen being escorted into waiting cars an driven off...

I think its kind of sad for some to label them "already dead" but considering the penchant of Muslum terrorists to torture thier captives to death, I think they will be lucky if they survive this event.........I think the hope they have is that Germany did not contribute troops to Iraq to fight but I think they will not ignore German attempts to arrest Islamic terrorists within its own borders and thier brave cimmitment to Afghanistan..........

If these men do turn up dead, than may the rest in peace, but until that time I will keep up my hopes that they are not suffering and are soon to be freed or rescued.........best wishes to those two brave Germans....

[obd]

hmm, now Im getting conflicting reports from all over: Some say they are alive and taken prisoner, others that they died due to RPG attack on thier vehicle...........anyone know for sure??

[HELEX]

http://www.welt.de/media/pic/000/137/13700v1.jpg

[mrfloppy]

I just heard in the news, that a fresh grave has been found, not far away from the place where the German convoy had been attacked. German authorities expect the two missing servicemen to have been buried there. The grave is going to be checked tomorrow in daylight (probably by coalition forces).

[bluered12]

There was an old thread with pictures of GSG-9 in Iraq:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2410&highlight=gsg9

[BMF_EOD]

If these guys have bought the farm then I give my heartfelt R.I.P. to them and their families. GSG-9 in my opinion is top notch, some of the best of the best. They are in every meaning of the world "elite".

Oh,

least I forget, I post this from personal experience......Unlike Helex who posts on what he "read" or "heard". Helex, please continue to disgrace your country.

[aeternum]

Latest news (TV) say, the attackers thought the german diplomatic convoy was a delayed US convoy. They even apologized for the loss of the 2 german, the report said.

[Argyll]

How the hell does some of the most high skilled Counter Terrorism commandos get taken prisoner by a ragtag militia???

My guess is strict German ROE to protect Germany from political fallout.


Again,it goes to show just how clueless and ill informed you are,are you privy to Int briefs and security briefs from Iraq?

They(insurgents) are not a bunch of deadbeats,they are using small unit tactics to great effect,..............never underestimate your enemy.

They survived the initial contact,but just couldn't outrun the insurgents vehicles...........have you ever been in a 5 series BMW doing 140mph.........coz that's what these fokers are doing,they hit you,empty a mag and peel off at junctions,they are pretty well untouchable.Not much you can do..............have you tried to shoot through armoured glass to return fire?..........I didn't think so.

[ForceReaper]

Mustamato and Helex:GSG-9 is also ther training Iraqi police forces. Where is the anti-German sentiment or are they not 'Mercenaries" as you so wish to call the American security personell?

[Michael RVR]

Basing on the latest news thats correct. Their job was to protect the embassy staff and they did serve their assignment well, as all others reached their designated destination. hThey paid the highest price, they payed with their lives to protect others. I say, job well done and RIP.

I agree, RIP. :|

[HELEX]

Mustamato and Helex:GSG-9 is also ther training Iraqi police forces. Where is the anti-German sentiment or are they not 'Mercenaries" as you so wish to call the American security personell?

1. The new Iraqi Police is trained by german Police, not BGS. And they
do that outside Iraq in neighburing states.

2. The BGS men got orders to do that duty in Iraq, and they are not private in any way.

So STFU.

[ForceReaper]

Mustamato and Helex:GSG-9 is also ther training Iraqi police forces. Where is the anti-German sentiment or are they not 'Mercenaries" as you so wish to call the American security personell?

1. The new Iraqi Police is trained by german Police, not BGS. And they
do that outside Iraq in neighburing states.

2. The BGS men got orders to do that duty in Iraq, and they are not private in any way.

So STFU.Bull**** fuuckface I was there and they are in Iraq training police forces!
So if they are not private then they are "occupiers" or "invaders" as you say we are beatch!!!! F**king hypocrite you know jack ****. You comfortable now......yeah I bet you are.You need to take a trip over there, you have no clue of what you speak from the comfort of you boyfriends flat!

[16 OBr SpN]

Helex,

I think you've gone too far with your statements/accusations!

Listen, and it's directed not only to you but to some others on this forum.

1) I was born/grew up, and gave my oath in a country called USSR.
2) I was trained to KILL the enemy, who at that time was the USA/NATO.
3) Propaganda machine was working on us, and believe me, Soviet Armed Forces, especially Spetsnaz had an extremely effective propaganda.
ETC., ETC.

And now, here I am talking with you guys, on the American forum.
Why do you think it happened?
I guess the reasons are: different time, intelligence, open-mindedness, love of everything military, etc.
How come you can't show the same kind of attitude?

I'm almost sure you've never worn a uniform, otherwise you wouldn't be posting all sorts of bull****. The most important aspect of wearing a uniform is RESPECT! I don't see any respect coming from you so far.

[kommando]

yeah thats sad
but it goes to prove that even the most "elite" of your country are not invulnerable.
RIP guys youve done your country proud
i just yeah they may nto have died in the RPG attack depending on where the RPG hit, i dont think well ever hear alot about this being they were pretty "secret" organisation.
my spelling and grammar is woeful sorry :|

[aeternum]

Mustamato and Helex:GSG-9 is also ther training Iraqi police forces. Where is the anti-German sentiment or are they not 'Mercenaries" as you so wish to call the American security personell?

1. The new Iraqi Police is trained by german Police, not BGS. And they
do that outside Iraq in neighburing states.

2. The BGS men got orders to do that duty in Iraq, and they are not private in any way.

So STFU.Bull**** fuuckface I was there and they are in Iraq training police forces!
So if they are not private then they are "occupiers" or "invaders" as you say we are beatch!!!! F**king hypocrite you know jack ****. You comfortable now......yeah I bet you are.You need to take a trip over there, you have no clue of what you speak from the comfort of you boyfriends flat!

The BGS, especially the GSG9 doesnt train anyone. Currently there are around 8-9 GSG-9 operators in Iraq and their duties are guarding the german embassy only.
And no, they are not private and no they are not invaders or occupiers, because the BGS is in every single country where Germany has an embassy.