IRAQIS SEIZE 30 HOSTAGES - Threat to cut off their Heads

[HELEX]

An Arabic television channel has broadcast a tape from an Iraqi group which is threatening to kill 30 foreign hostages.


The group has threatened to cut off the heads of their prisoners unless US forces lift a blockade of the town of Fallujah.

"We are calling for the withdrawal of American and Coalition forces.

"We have Japanese, Bulgarian, Israeli, American, Spanish and Korean hostages.

"Their numbers are 30," said a masked man holding a Kalashnikov rifle.

Violence has escalated throughout Iraq, with street fighting in northwest Baghdad and an attack on a fuel convoy west of the city.

Two American soldiers and a number of civilians are missing following the attack by militants.

The US Army said it had killed 12 rebels in northern Iraq, destroying their truck with a missile after the guerrillas opened fire.

US forces also killed three guerrillas after clashes broke out at a demonstration in front of Mosul city hall.

There are fears of further unrest as more than a million Shia Muslims gather in the city of Karbala to mark the holy day of Arbain.

But there is a ceasefire in the nearby Sunni stronghold of Fallujah where US forces are holding peace talks with local leaders.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell promised to defeat the insurgents, although he admitted the past week had been "tough" for Coalition forces.

Last Updated: 13:15 UK, Saturday April 10, 2004

[seruriermarshal]

Now need cut off Iraq terrorist's heads .

[BlackRain]

Helex please release those hostages!

[foxtrot023]

Thqat is probably BS, since only 8 @ssholes with masks appear on the tape, and to ¨prove¨ their claim, they said they had the bodies of 4 US servicemen, but only show a half buried unidentified body in the sand. At least Spain has confirmed none of their citizens or soldiers are missing.

Regards

[HELEX]

http://www.welt.de/media/pic/000/136/13687v1.jpg

One of the american Hostages

[Trident-za]

I don't know if the "real" figure is close to 30, but reading all the press reports in recent days there are definitely a fair number of hostages. The bad guys seem to be delibrately trying to capture rather than kill in some cases.

Crap position for the politicians to be in now - how does the coalition react? I'm glad it's not my call - in principle, don't negotiate. In practise, a bit harder - especially with all the media coverage :(

[seruriermarshal]

I don't know if the "real" figure is close to 30, but reading all the press reports in recent days there are definitely a fair number of hostages. The bad guys seem to be delibrately trying to capture rather than kill in some cases.

Crap position for the politicians to be in now - how does the coalition react? I'm glad it's not my call - in principle, don't negotiate. In practise, a bit harder - especially with all the media coverage :(

Yes , media ......

[*Teryan*]

Is't today the third day for the three Japeneses hostiages?

[Imshi-Yallah]

Decisive action one way or another is required, this is the point where politicians should be able to put aside their career considerations in order to achieve the best outcome...but they wont.

[MEGR]

Think we would actually see Delta or Devgru in action?

[seruriermarshal]

Is't today the third day for the three Japeneses hostiages?

They are killed ? No new message ...... Perhaps we must wait .

[HELEX]

Is't today the third day for the three Japeneses hostiages?

Tomorrow is deadline as far as I know....

[MEGR]

Is't today the third day for the three Japeneses hostiages?

Tomorrow is deadline as far as I know....

I second that. That is what they said on ABC News.

[Trident-za]

Think we would actually see Delta or Devgru in action?

I guess TP is the guy to ask, but I'd guess... no. I would imagine it's kinda tough to a surgical hostage rescue in an environment thats under enemy control. Apart from the difficulty of getting in and doing the rescue before hostages are executed, they would face the possibility of a Mogadishu type situation trying to get out. A complete waste of well-trained operators?

But, as I said.... maybe TP or someone similar could answer it better.

[HELEX]

They simply dont know where they are, a city is biiiiiiig. :roll:

[MEGR]

SEALs and Delta had to deal with something like this in Lebannon. I think the story was that a Special Forces soldier was kidnapped and was held in some part of Beirut. SEALs and Delta started to gather Intel and such to try and find him, but he beauracracy got in the way, and no such attempt was made to get him.. Very sad.. Hope it won't happen again.

[b00n]

Getting out one and getting out ~30 is a difference dont you think?

[Imshi-Yallah]

The whole point of CT units such as DEVGRU/SFOD-D/TAG/GROM etc is to extract hostages that are held overseas in hostile environments.

[Trident-za]

Yes, sure. It's a bit tough to do in place like Falluja though, wouldn't you say? Not to say it can't be done - and I'm sure the units mentioned could pull it off, but it's a hell of a risk. One or 2 stray RPG's at the wrong time and you've lost a bunch of well-trained people with years of experience. Also, as mentioned above - a group of 20-30 hostages is a challenge to get out.

And before you say it, I know these guys are paid to do dangerous work with risks etc etc.

My guess is still, no.

[Imshi-Yallah]

I'd agree that a raid is highly unlikely but whats the point of spending all that money on training a weapon that you never use for its intended purpose.
Sometimes cost benefit analyses have to be put aside in favour of doing what is right.

[ibstolidude]

An Arabic television channel has broadcast a tape from an Iraqi group which is threatening to kill 30 foreign hostages.


The group has threatened to cut off the heads of their prisoners unless US forces lift a blockade of the town of Fallujah.

"We are calling for the withdrawal of American and Coalition forces.

"We have Japanese, Bulgarian, Israeli, American, Spanish and Korean hostages.

"Their numbers are 30," said a masked man holding a Kalashnikov rifle.

Violence has escalated throughout Iraq, with street fighting in northwest Baghdad and an attack on a fuel convoy west of the city.

Two American soldiers and a number of civilians are missing following the attack by militants.

The US Army said it had killed 12 rebels in northern Iraq, destroying their truck with a missile after the guerrillas opened fire.

US forces also killed three guerrillas after clashes broke out at a demonstration in front of Mosul city hall.

There are fears of further unrest as more than a million Shia Muslims gather in the city of Karbala to mark the holy day of Arbain.

But there is a ceasefire in the nearby Sunni stronghold of Fallujah where US forces are holding peace talks with local leaders.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell promised to defeat the insurgents, although he admitted the past week had been "tough" for Coalition forces.

Last Updated: 13:15 UK, Saturday April 10, 2004




this article doesn't mention the German hostages?

[edited] - i just saw a thread about it.

[HELEX]

@ibstolidude

Their vehicle was hit by a RPG, it is very unlikely they are alife and Hostages.

[BlackRain]

The Islamic fundamentalists seem to have captured one private security guard who was with the convoy that was attacked. His name is allegedly Thomas Hamill.

The claim about multiple foreign hostages is bull****.

"A group calling itself the "Marytr Ahmed Yassin Brigades" in the city of Ramadi, west of Baghdad and Fallujah, claimed in footage shown on Arab media to have 30 hostages from a variety of countries, including the U.S.

But the footage, obtained by APTN and aired on Al-Arabiya TV, showed no images of any hostages, and there was no way to verify the group's claims."

Helex, please release the American hostage.


Germany Isn't Immune to Terrorism Despite It's Position on Iraq

1) The German Foreign Ministry Saturday confirmed that two security people assigned to the German Embassy in Baghdad were missing.

An Interior Ministry spokesman said he could not rule out that the two were dead.

German media has reported that the men -- members of the elite GSG9 force --were part of a convoy driving from Amman, Jordan, to Baghdad.

[American Patriot]

Thomas Hamill sadly is going to be used for their propaganda.

We should do the same and tape a GBU-12 sending some terrorists to heaven.

[usa320]

We should do the same and tape a GBU-12 sending some terrorists to heaven.

We do. Its called Gun Camera Footage.


I think we can definately pull off a rescue. If we find out where they are, have a few helos swoop in and drop of a team of SOF. At the same time have Apaches and A-10's laying down serious fire to keep the insurgents outside the compound at bay. Also they should bring spare guns, seeing as many of the hostages are PMC's or security personel. It would give them extra help getting out. Plus 30 hostages, even if unarmed, would be able to do quite some damage to a small number of captors, reportedly 8.

[Trident-za]

We should do the same and tape a GBU-12 sending some terrorists to heaven.

We do. Its called Gun Camera Footage.


I think we can definately pull off a rescue. If we find out where they are, have a few helos swoop in and drop of a team of SOF. At the same time have Apaches and A-10's laying down serious fire to keep the insurgents outside the compound at bay. Also they should bring spare guns, seeing as many of the hostages are PMC's or security personel. It would give them extra help getting out. Plus 30 hostages, even if unarmed, would be able to do quite some damage to a small number of captors, reportedly 8.

Err.... I'm glad you don't have a job planning military operations. I'm sure it's just a little bit more complicated than this :) Or maybe you're right. Either way, I'm glad you're not doing the planning... :roll:

[Chris1]

Also they should bring spare guns, seeing as many of the hostages are PMC's or security personel.
:cantbeli:

[Trident-za]

Usa320.... whats your plan to prevent the swooping helicopters being shot down by guys right near the target building with RPGs? Or to take out the "suicide bomber" type inside the target building with 10kgs of plastic explosives strapped to him?

[Webley]

Someone should tell these terrorists that their demands will be ignored.

[Fenna]

Yep, then they'll say "Damn, you sure showed us!"

[Haiw]

Usa320.... whats your plan to prevent the swooping helicopters being shot down by guys right near the target building with RPGs? Or to take out the "suicide bomber" type inside the target building with 10kgs of plastic explosives strapped to him?
Well they'll just fly in in choppers *brrrrrrrrrrr* and they'll fastrope down *woosh* then the A10s will fly over and mow down 3 city blocks *TTRRRR BOOM BOOM* and then the Delta superduper commandos enter the building and *bang bang aaaargh bang bang tatatatata waaaaaah* they free the hostages and then *vrooom* the convoy comes and they all ride home and open a nice cold can of beer.

THE END!

[MARINO]

Any Spanish hostage

[Hugh Jorgan]

Usa320.... whats your plan to prevent the swooping helicopters being shot down by guys right near the target building with RPGs? Or to take out the "suicide bomber" type inside the target building with 10kgs of plastic explosives strapped to him?

The plan is to keep hitting the quick save button and starting the action over from where his plan went to $hit.

[Webley]

Yep, then they'll say "Damn, you sure showed us!"

They will realize that taking hostages will gain them nothing.

The absolute worse thing to do is to negotiate with them. They will continue to take more hostages. Better to let the terrorists kill the hostages than to do that. By not negotiating, the terrorists will come to understand that the taking of hostages will not be worthwhile.

[Yard Ape]

The absolute worse thing to do is to negotiate with them. They will continue to take more hostages. Better to let the terrorists kill the hostages than to do that. By not negotiating, the terrorists will come to understand that the taking of hostages will not be worthwhile.And that's the right answer.

[Haiw]

The absolute worse thing to do is to negotiate with them. They will continue to take more hostages. Better to let the terrorists kill the hostages than to do that. By not negotiating, the terrorists will come to understand that the taking of hostages will not be worthwhile.And that's the right answer.
Geez...he managed to put that into words without throwing trash at Europe. That's a first-timer. :roll:

[Trident-za]

I agree with not negotiating, generally. The world is a complicated place though - and apparently the US government and military are prepared to negotiate..... maybe they know something we dont.

P.S. Haiw and Hugh Jorgan - your posts made me laugh :) I'm glad I'm not the only one here to recognize the true military planning genius that is usa320.

[TALOS]

The absolute worse thing to do is to negotiate with them. They will continue to take more hostages. Better to let the terrorists kill the hostages than to do that. By not negotiating, the terrorists will come to understand that the taking of hostages will not be worthwhile.And that's the right answer.
Geez...he managed to put that into words without throwing trash at Europe. That's a first-timer. :roll:
But I noticed you still managed to bring it up so he really didnt have to :roll:
edited for spelling

[Scrim]

USA320 wrote

Also they should bring spare guns, seeing as many of the hostages are PMC's or security personel.

"Also they should bring knives, big fvck off shiny ones."

[Hydro]

I'd like to know why USA320 isn't a General already? We'd be out of Iraq and back home for tea and medals with him in the lead. Alls we need is a FAST team, an A10 and a Spectre, a few spare guns, and by God, world domination is just around the corner...

[Haiw]

A FAST team with A10 support for a HR mission...geez...even I as a Dutch guy know that that doesn't make sense.

[Hydro]

To be fair, Haiw, you Dutch can't make sense of most things :P ;)

[obd]

In response to somebody here saying "we should not do a resuce because we could loose alot of well trained troops to a stray RPG" I say this:

There is always the danger of spending so much money and putting so much prestige into a certain force that you fear to use them because of cost and , should they fail, embarrassment.... Its whats called a "silver bullet" or "token" force..........

In my opinion, Delta Force and groups like it around the world were designed expressely for hostage recue. In the words of Delta Force founder Charlie Beckwith, "hostage rescue in hostile and demanding environments is our bread and butter.. Its what we spend our lives training for and its what we spend our lives hoping for".

Tell me, whats the point of even having groups like Delta and spending millions training them up and such if you cant use them? Delta has been used before to rescue a single solitary man: Remmember Kurt Muese in Panama anyone???

If Delta cant be used to rescue 30 innocent people, including American, who are going are undoutably goingto be tortured te death and have it filmed and shown to the world thorugh thier propaganda networlk Al Jazeera than hoinestly I see no damn point in Delta existing.....They cost about as much as a division of Marines and if we arnt willing to use them that **** it, dont pay for them to exist.......

[Trident-za]

Lots of good points, obd.


Tell me, whats the point of even having groups like Delta and spending millions training them up and such if you cant use them?

The point of having these guys is NOT to commit suicide, though.... so, if the risks are too high it would be stupid to waste good men. Risk analysis is important.


Delta has been used before to rescue a single solitary man: Remmember Kurt Muese in Panama anyone???

Yes.

First off, though, lets worry about finding where the hostages actually are. Then, I'm sure the powers that be will do a feasability study. They might even land up agreeing with you.... the risk factor may be low enough to make an attempt. One thing is for damn sure though - if they decide to actually do a hostage rescue, the plan will be more complex that the one usa320 came up with.

[*Teryan*]

On Saturday, Arabic television station Al Jazeera reported that the group holding three Japanese hostages said it would free them within 24 hours, a move which surprised Tokyo officials working to secure their release ahead of a deadline to kill them on Sunday.]

In Kuwait, an associate of Iraq's leading Shiite leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, denounced the kidnapping of the Japanese as a terrorist act and demanded their immediate release, ******* reported. The associate, Ayatollah Muhammad Bakr al-Mohri, said in a sermon at Friday Prayer that was carried by newspapers on Saturday, "This ugly picture hurts Islam and Muslims as it gives a bad impression about our Islamic religion."



Three less to rescue.

And another link about the 30 hositages:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/international/11IRAQ.html?ei=5006&en=4dca2acf50a9cf6b&ex=1082260800&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=

[Haiw]

To be fair, Haiw, you Dutch can't make sense of most things :P ;)
Go tell that to the guys that got their asses kicked when they got the stupid idea to hijack a train back in the seventies. :P

[Romulus]

No proof these clowns have 30 hostages. They said they did? Big woop! If I tell you I have Elvis's enlarged prostate would you believe that to?

[Innoxx]

Only if it's reported on ABC news, because they never lie.

[Romulus]

Only if it's reported on ABC news, because they never lie.

I could care less who reports it. I haven't seen any 30 hostages.