The U.S.S. Liberty

[MVSpartan117]

Me and my dad were talking about the Isreali airforce tonight and how sucessful they've been in combat and we eventually started talking about the U.S.S. Liberty incident during the Six Day War in 1967.

The attack has many very suspecious aspects too it.

for instance:


According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.


A top-secret analysis of Israel's excuse conducted by the Department of State found Israel's story to be untrue. Yet Israel and its defenders continue to stand by their claim that the attack was a "tragic accident" in which Israel mistook the most modern electronic surveillance vessel in the world for a rusted-out 40-year-old Egyptian horse transport.
(thanks to http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0693/9306019.htm )

What do you guys think, was the Isreali attack intentional, and if so why?

[American Patriot]

I think it was the Jews' way of saying, "Leave, we don't want you here."

Instead we didn't listen and now the whole Arab world has a hardon for our destruction.

[Spearin]

I think it was the Jews' way of saying, "Leave, we don't want you here."

Instead we didn't listen and now the whole Arab world has a hardon for our destruction.

What??

[American Patriot]

How do you know the Jews really wanted our help during The Six Day war and beyond?

We wanted to have an ally in the region and now we are paying the price for our greed.

[SeanAshi]

Orders coming from the Pentagon and NSA caused the Liberty to be in the wrong place.

[Lysander]

Orders coming from the Pentagon and NSA caused the Liberty to be in the wrong place.

What do you mean "in the wrong place"? Can you explain.

[SeanAshi]

I'm not 100% positive but here goes: The Liberty was there to easedrop on the war between Israel, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, on orders from the Pentagon to the Liberty telling her to stay around 100 miles from the coast, orders from National Security Agency was much less, they were to close to the coast, Israel had no idea that an American naval ship was in the area, they were suppose to be further out, IAF mistook the ship as an Egyptian war ship and then opened fire which began the incident.

[MVSpartan117]

I'm not 100% positive but here goes: The Liberty was there to easedrop on the war between Israel, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, on orders from the Pentagon to the Liberty telling her to stay around 100 miles from the coast, orders from National Security Agency was much less, they were to close to the coast, Israel had no idea that an American naval ship was in the area, they were suppose to be further out, IAF mistook the ship as an Egyptian war ship and then opened fire which began the incident.

But what about the accounts of the pilots positivly identifying it as a U.S. ship?


(Please don't take any of my posts as trying to prove anything, I don't want to start a a flame war or anything, I'm just trying to get information)

[SeanAshi]

But what about the accounts of the pilots positivly identifying it as a U.S. ship? When it was positively identified as a US Naval ship the attack was aborted. But the debate still today, was the ship flying the US flag, sailors on the ship say yes the pilots say no.

[ShotOver]

A flag does not mean anything mate, the Egyptians could of just put an American flag on one of their ships, for all that the IDF knew.

To American Patriot, you are becoming rather annoying with your posts, stop calling them "Jews" they are Israeli, i belive they have fought hard enough, and died for long enough to have the honor of being called Israeli's, not just to be summed up to one catagory due to their religion.
Your arrogance has no place here.

[S'13]

How many times has this incident has been discussed!
Tell me, is it logical that any nation on earth would deliberately attack a vessel which belongs to a friendly world superpower in the middle of a war for its survival and then stop the attack in the middle and then send rescue forces to that ship?!

The IAF attack on the U.S.S. Liberty was a tragic case of misidentification which I'm sure most of you can agree happens all too often in war.

[S'13]

But what about the accounts of the pilots positivly identifying it as a U.S. ship?


May I ask what is the source of this "account"?

[MVSpartan117]

I really don't know much about this, i only know what I've read

heres one souce I looked at: http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0693/9306019.htm

[S'13]

heres one souce I looked at: http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0693/9306019.htm

Why am I not surprised :roll:

[MVSpartan117]

what do you mean?

Seriously, I really don't know much about this, I'm not trying to porve anything, thats jjust one souce i looked at.

I'm sorry

[S'13]

what do you mean?

Seriously, I really don't know much about this, I'm not trying to porve anything, thats jjust one souce i looked at.

I'm sorry

I am sure your not trying to prove anything, and you made that clear. :)

What I meant was that it wasn't surprising to see that this supposed "account" came from this site, since its objectives are very clear.
Is there another (balanced) source that backs the "account" which was displayed?

If not then I sincerely doubt it has any grasp in reality, not that I don't doubt it now...

[PRKL]

In book "Body Of Secrets" written by James Bamford is good account about that incident... at least one version of it.

And that's interesting book otherwise too.

http://www.randomhouse.com/features/bamford/home.html

[Mark_Aspen]

My issue has always been, who orders an under-armed warship into an active war zone? And then, who repeats the mistake a year later in an even worse location?

Think USS Pueblo.

Given the frequency of friendly fire incidents among allies who coordinate, what is so hard to believe about an attack on a warship of a country with which you've had limited military relations up until now (1967)? If you're the pilot or torpedo boat CO, how do you execute an attack? You go for the jugular.

[BlackRain]

This topic has been covered a few times on this forum. I think we are going to just have to disagree on what really happened.

The people who were there know what happened to the USS Liberty. You either accept their first hand version of events or not.

[tacticalmanta]

What was not pointed out was that at the time, the US was no great friend of Israel. The majority of Israeli harware was from Europe and home grown at the time.

Don't kid yourself into thinking the US had anything to do with any of Israel's victories. Individual Americans did, but they had to break US laws to do it.

Likewise, the US has actually been the cause of many of Israel's problems and have gotten in the way of the Israeli army. The only reason Cairo exists today is because the Americans were so scared of the Soviets, they begged/ pressured Israel not to march on Cairo.

It was not until Nixon took power that Israel and the US forged a lasting friendship (despite the US's continued effort to sell-out Israel).

[UkrainianAmerican]

What was not pointed out was that at the time, the US was no great friend of Israel. The majority of Israeli harware was from Europe and home grown at the time.

Don't kid yourself into thinking the US had anything to do with any of Israel's victories. Individual Americans did, but they had to break US laws to do it.

Likewise, the US has actually been the cause of many of Israel's problems and have gotten in the way of the Israeli army. The only reason Cairo exists today is because the Americans were so scared of the Soviets, they begged/ pressured Israel not to march on Cairo.

It was not until Nixon took power that Israel and the US forged a lasting friendship (despite the US's continued effort to sell-out Israel).
Yeah, thats true. But even though they weren't close allies, I still find it hard to belive that Israelis would dare sink an American ship on purpose, and THEN actually try to rescue the crew instead of "disappearing" them. I mean, if it was done on purpose, it was done in an EXTREMELY amateur way to say the least. Also during GW1 American helicopters destroyed british armor by mistake. Obviously that was friendly fire, not some illuminati conspiracy.

[S'13]

The people who were there know what happened to the USS Liberty. You either accept their first hand version of events or not.

What do you mean by "the people who were there know what happened to the USS Liberty"?

If you are refering to the crew of the Liberty then your wrong since their first hand version testimony can't shed light on what really happend. All they know is that IAF planes attacked them.
Of course thier testimony can be used but that alone is not enough to determine what really happend. This event has been examined from all angles by the U.S government and it was found to be a tragic case of misidentification.

[tacticalmanta]

The US got their revenge with the INS Dakar.

Don't be so surprised. The US has been selling Israeli military secrets to Arab countries for years. It's not a very clean relationship.

Israel has fought in both Gulf wars and in Afghanistan.. and because of US politics, it's not well known.

[UkrainianAmerican]

The US got their revenge with the INS Dakar.

Don't be so surprised. The US has been selling Israeli military secrets to Arab countries for years. It's not a very clean relationship.

Israel has fought in both Gulf wars and in Afghanistan.. and because of US politics, it's not well known.
What Israeli military secrets? And why would we do that?
Also, while they had a commando team in GW1 to hunt for SCUDS, besides intelligence I dont think they did anything in GW2, and definitely not afganistan.
Any links would be very appreciated.

[BlackRain]

The people who were there know what happened to the USS Liberty. You either accept their first hand version of events or not.

What do you mean by "the people who were there know what happened to the USS Liberty"?

If you are refering to the crew of the Liberty then your wrong since their first hand version testimony can't shed light on what really happend. All they know is that IAF planes attacked them.
Of course thier testimony can be used but that alone is not enough to determine what really happend. This event has been examined from all angles by the U.S government and it was found to be a tragic case of misidentification.

Again, this all has been covered before. It is not a US versus Israeli thing.

If your statement is true, then why are the survivors of the USS Liberty offering a $10,000 challenge? If you are so confident, it should be easy money for you!



The Liberty Veterans Association offers a $10,000 reward to anyone who can establish the truth of A. Jay Cristol's claim:

"After ten official US investigations (including five congressional investigations), there was never any evidence that the attack was made with knowledge that the target was a US ship."

The Liberty Veterans Association has disputed the truth of this statement for years. We know it is untrue. The claim that there have been any official Congressional investigations into the culpability for the Israeli attack on USS Liberty is patently false. There have been NO official Congressional investigations on this subject. We believe that the best way to prove that the above statement is untrue is to offer a reward to anyone (including Mr. Cristol) who can prove that it is true.

Please let us know when you get the money! :D

For more reading on the subject from Survivors of the attack: http://www.usslibertyinquiry.com/commentary/travesty/biglie.html

[UkrainianAmerican]

Technically, how could the survivors tell that it was or wasn't attacked on purpose?

[IDFM203]

To MVSpartan117,

Listen I don’t know if you are indeed naive about this are in fact not and just play that way, but that website that you brought and the first two quotes are totally false!!

I openly challenge you NOW to bring any credible sources that any Israeli pilot was arrested or that he saw an American flag and asked to stop and was told not to. thats a falt lie and there is NO credible sources that ever beacked that up.

Nor can any credible source back up any claim that there was some top secret report that differed from the over ten other U.S. government and other investigations, that all concluded that it was a accident on the part of Israel.

That liberty spy ship was in waters in middle of an all out war and it was most probably an accident as is friendly fire accidents as is other such accidents that happen in midst of an all out war.

This topic indeed has been discussed to death.

But of course since its involves the Jewish state of course some people need to constantly drag this up.

I mean have anyone ever heard about the U.S. stark for example?? Gee that is talked about a lot.....NOT!!

If you want to see all the back and forth clickk Here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4684&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=uss+libert&start=0) and read over the whole thread and you will see me and others go over in great detail both (or even three arguments) sides of the arguments for or against this being an accident..after that thread you can draw your own conclusions.

Last note, I see people like to bring the liberty website into this and IMO that cant shed any light onto this for NONE of them can possibly know what the pilots thought they were attacking so all that is written there cant prove that the pilots knew and still attacked.

Shalom :D

[IDFM203]

TO add....

You know I myself always had a few questions, what was that liberty spy ship doing there in the first place?

I mean I know some of you find this hard to belive, but if indeed there was a U.S. government coverup, I as well am dying to know why and what they are covering up.

somehow I dont think its a coverup for the reasons some of you think it might be.

just my opinion.


Shalom :D

[BlackRain]

TO add....

You know I myself always had a few questions, what was that liberty spy ship doing there in the first place?

I mean I know some of you find this hard to belive, but if indeed there was a U.S. government coverup, I as well am dying to know why and what they are covering up.

somehow I dont think its a coverup for the reasons some of you think it might be.

just my opinion.


Shalom :D

The assertion, "What was the Liberty doing there?" as if to blame the victim is not well formed.

The Liberty was in international waters. Based on your logic, would be okay to repeat the same incident today if an American ship was in the same locale?

[S'13]

It is not a US versus Israeli thing.

Belive me, I'm the last person who would think that...


If your statement is true, then why are the survivors of the USS Liberty offering a $10,000 challenge? If you are so confident, it should be easy money for you!

I'm sure the survivors have their own "truth" and belive in it, they find it difficult to believe that they were wounded or their friends were killed by mistake.
How will they belive anyone if they don't even belive their own government :|

[BlackRain]

It is not a US versus Israeli thing.

Belive me, I'm the last person who would think that...


If your statement is true, then why are the survivors of the USS Liberty offering a $10,000 challenge? If you are so confident, it should be easy money for you!

I'm sure the survivors have their own "truth" and belive in it, they find it difficult to believe that they were wounded or their friends were killed by mistake.
How will they belive anyone if they don't even belive their own government :|

I think we both can agree on that.

[tacticalmanta]

The US got their revenge with the INS Dakar.

Don't be so surprised. The US has been selling Israeli military secrets to Arab countries for years. It's not a very clean relationship.

Israel has fought in both Gulf wars and in Afghanistan.. and because of US politics, it's not well known.
What Israeli military secrets? And why would we do that?
Also, while they had a commando team in GW1 to hunt for SCUDS, besides intelligence I dont think they did anything in GW2, and definitely not afganistan.
Any links would be very appreciated.

In GW1 Israel had Special Forces on the ground in Iraq
In Afghanistan Israel again had/ has SF on the ground
In GW2 Israel had tank hunters and had/has Special Forces on the ground in Iraq

In both GW's, Israel had secret agents in Bagdad working for the US.

Of the many secrets the US sold, one of the more obvious ones were Israel Air Force Tactics sold to the Egyptians. Why? To gain Arab support.. same reason Clinton gave Egypt $50 billion to build a modern army.

[IDFM203]

TO add....

You know I myself always had a few questions, what was that liberty spy ship doing there in the first place?

I mean I know some of you find this hard to belive, but if indeed there was a U.S. government coverup, I as well am dying to know why and what they are covering up.

somehow I dont think its a coverup for the reasons some of you think it might be.

just my opinion.


Shalom :D

The assertion, "What was the Liberty doing there?" as if to blame the victim is not well formed.

The Liberty was in international waters. no its a very logical question to ask

What was that spy ship doing in waters that was in a war zone that was in middle of an all out war?????

I am not blaming anyone but rather asking a question.


What, only American can ask questions or accuse our pilots of this and that, and we cant ask any questions of our own? :roll: Or that we cant say that no liberty survivers can possibly know what the pilots were thinking etc…

No it doesn’t work that way!!

Shalom :D

[IDFM203]

To add.

Oh indeed its not an American vs Israel thing but rather it’s SOME Americans vs the Jewish state thing.


Wanting to know the truth is great and all that but the way SOME refuse to except anything less then Israel knew and still attacked maliciously simply because it could, even though there is no proof what’s ever to that, leads me to say what I said above.

Shalom :D

[S'13]

The Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was a grievous error, largely attributable to the fact that it occurred in the midst of the confusion of a full-scale war in 1967. Ten official United States investigations and three official Israeli inquiries have all conclusively established the attack was a tragic mistake.

On June 8, 1967, the fourth day of the Six-Day War, the Israeli high command received reports that Israeli troops in El Arish were being fired upon from the sea, presumably by an Egyptian vessel, as they had a day before. The United States had announced that it had no naval forces within hundreds of miles of the battle front on the floor of the United Nations a few days earlier; however, the USS Liberty, an American intelligence ship assigned to monitor the fighting, arrived in the area, 14 miles off the Sinai coast, as a result of a series of United States communication failures, whereby messages directing the ship not to approach within 100 miles were not received by the Liberty. The Israelis mistakenly thought this was the ship doing the shelling and war planes and torpedo boats attacked, killing 34 members of the Liberty's crew and wounding 171.

Numerous mistakes were made by both the United States and Israel. For example, the Liberty was first reported — incorrectly, as it turned out — to be cruising at 30 knots (it was later recalculated to be 28 knots). Under Israeli (and U.S.) naval doctrine at the time, a ship proceeding at that speed was presumed to be a warship. The sea was calm and the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry found that the Liberty's flag was very likely drooped and not discernible; moreover, members of the crew, including the Captain, Commander William McGonagle, testified that the flag was knocked down after the first or second assault.

According to Israeli Chief of Staff Yitzhak Rabin's memoirs, there were standing orders to attack any unidentified vessel near the shore.1 The day fighting began, Israel had asked that American ships be removed from its coast or that it be notified of the precise location of U.S. vessels.2 The Sixth Fleet was moved because President Johnson feared being drawn into a confrontation with the Soviet Union. He also ordered that no aircraft be sent near Sinai.

A CIA report on the incident issued June 13, 1967, also found that an overzealous pilot could mistake the Liberty for an Egyptian ship, the El Quseir. After the air raid, Israeli torpedo boats identified the Liberty as an Egyptian naval vessel. When the Liberty began shooting at the Israelis, they responded with the torpedo attack, which killed 28 of the sailors.

Initially, the Israelis were terrified that they had attacked a Soviet ship and might have provoked the Soviets to join the fighting. Once the Israelis were sure what had happened, they reported the incident to the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv and offered to provide a helicopter for the Americans to fly out to the ship and any help they required to evacuate the injured and salvage the ship. The offer was accepted and a U.S. naval attachי was flown to the Liberty.

Many of the survivors of the Liberty remain bitter, and are convinced the attack was deliberate as they make clear on their web site. In 1991, columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak trumpeted their discovery of an American who said he had been in the Israeli war room when the decision was made to knowingly attack the American ship. In fact, that individual, Seth Mintz, wrote a letter to the Washington Post on November 9, 1991, in which he said he was misquoted by Evans and Novak and that the attack, was, in fact, a "case of mistaken identity." Moreover, the man who Mintz originally said had been with him, a Gen. Benni Matti, does not exist.

Also, contrary to claims that an Israeli pilot identified the ship as American on a radio tape, no one has ever produced this tape. In fact, the official Israeli Air Force tape clearly established that no such identification of the ship was made by the Israeli pilots prior to the attack. It also indicates that once the pilots became concerned about the identity of the ship, by virtue of reading its hull number, they terminated the attack. The tapes do not contain any statement suggesting the pilots saw a U.S. flag before the attack. Critics claimed the Israeli tape was doctored, but the National Security Agency of the United States released formerly top secret transcripts in July 2003 that confirmed the Israeli version.

A U.S. spy plane was sent to the area as soon as the NSA learned of the attack on the Liberty and recorded the conversations of two Israeli Air Force helicopter pilots, which took place between 2:30 and 3:37 p.m. on June 8. The orders radioed to the pilots by their supervisor at the Hatzor base instructing them to search for Egyptian survivors from the "Egyptian warship" that had just been bombed were also recorded by the NSA. "Pay attention. The ship is now identified as Egyptian," the pilots were informed. Nine minutes later, Hatzor told the pilots the ship was believed to be an Egyptian cargo ship. At 3:07, the pilots were first told the ship might not be Egyptian and were instructed to search for survivors and inform the base immediately the nationality of the first person they rescued. It was not until 3:12 that one of the pilots reported that he saw an American flag flying over the ship at which point he was instructed to verify if it was indeed a U.S. vessel.

In October 2003, the first Israeli pilot to reach the ship broke his 36-year silence on the attack. Brig.-Gen. Yiftah Spector, a triple ace, who shot down 15 enemy aircraft and took part in the 1981 raid on the Iraqi nuclear reactor, said he had been told an Egyptian ship was off the Gaza coast. "This ship positively did not have any symbol or flag that I could see. What I was concerned with was that it was not one of ours. I looked for the symbol of our navy, which was a large white cross on its deck. This was not there, so it wasn't one of ours." The Jerusalem Post obtained a recording of Spector's radio transmission in which he said, "I can't identify it, but in any case it's a military ship."

Spector's plane was not armed with bombs or, he said, he would have sunk the Liberty. Instead he fired 30mm armor piercing rounds that led the American survivors to believe they had been under rocket attack. His first pass ignited a fire, which caused the ship to billow black smoke that Spector thought was a ruse to conceal the ship. Spector acknowledged in the Post interview that he made a mistake, and said he admitted it when called to testify in an inquiry by a U.S. senator. "I'm sorry for the mistake," he said. "Years later my mates dropped flowers on the site where the ship was attacked."

None of Israel's accusers can explain why Israel would deliberately attack an American ship at a time when the United States was Israel's only friend and supporter in the world. Confusion in a long line of communications, which occurred in a tense atmosphere on both the American and Israeli sides (five messages from the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the ship to remain at least 25 miles — the last four said 100 miles — off the Egyptian coast arrived after the attack was over) is a more probable explanation.

Accidents caused by “friendly fire” are common in wartime. In 1988, the U.S. Navy mistakenly downed an Iranian passenger plane, killing 290 civilians. During the Gulf War, 35 of the 148 Americans who died in battle were killed by “friendly fire.” In April 1994, two U.S. Black Hawk helicopters with large U.S. flags painted on each side were shot down by U.S. Air Force F-15s on a clear day in the “no fly” zone of Iraq, killing 26 people. In April 2002, an American F-16 dropped a bomb that killed four Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. In fact, the day before the Liberty was attacked, Israeli pilots accidentally bombed one of their own armored columns.

Retired Admiral, Shlomo Erell, who was Chief of the Navy in Israel in June 1967, told the Associated Press (June 5, 1977): “No one would ever have dreamt that an American ship would be there. Even the United States didn't know where its ship was. We were advised by the proper authorities that there was no American ship within 100 miles.”

Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara told Congress on July 26, 1967: “It was the conclusion of the investigatory body, headed by an admiral of the Navy in whom we have great confidence, that the attack was not intentional.”

In 1987, McNamara repeated his belief that the attack was a mistake, telling a caller on the “Larry King Show” that he had seen nothing in the 20 years since to change his mind that there had been no “cover*up.”

In January 2004, the State Department held a conference on the Liberty incident and also released new documents, including CIA memos dated June 13 and June 21, 1967, that say that Israel did not know it was striking an American vessel. The historian for the National Security Agency, David Hatch, said the available evidence "strongly suggested" Israel did not know it was attacking a U.S. ship. Two former U.S. officials, Ernest Castle, the United States Naval Attache at the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv in June 1967, who received the first report of the attack from Israel, and John Hadden, then CIA Chief of Station in Tel Aviv, also agreed with the assessment that the attack on the Liberty was a mistake.

The new documents do not shed any light on the mystery of what the ship was doing in the area or why Israel was not informed about its presence. The evidence suggests the ship was not spying on Israel.

Israel apologized for the tragedy immediately and offered on June 9 to compensate the victims. Israel ultimately paid nearly $13 million in humanitarian reparations to the United States and to the families of the victims in amounts established by the U.S. State Department. The matter was officially closed between the two governments by an exchange of diplomatic notes on December 17, 1987.

source: http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/liberty.html

[tacticalmanta]

Not exactly what happened.. but quoting propaganda is fun.

[S'13]

Not exactly what happened.. but quoting propaganda is fun.

What exactly happend then? :roll:

From all your posts here I don't understand what your getting at...

[Javehn]

edit

[MVSpartan117]

To MVSpartan117,

Listen I don’t know if you are indeed naive about this are in fact not and just play that way, but that website that you brought and the first two quotes are totally false!!

I openly challenge you NOW to bring any credible sources that any Israeli pilot was arrested or that he saw an American flag and asked to stop and was told not to. thats a falt lie and there is NO credible sources that ever beacked that up.

Nor can any credible source back up any claim that there was some top secret report that differed from the over ten other U.S. government and other investigations, that all concluded that it was a accident on the part of Israel.

That liberty spy ship was in waters in middle of an all out war and it was most probably an accident as is friendly fire accidents as is other such accidents that happen in midst of an all out war.

This topic indeed has been discussed to death.

But of course since its involves the Jewish state of course some people need to constantly drag this up.

I mean have anyone ever heard about the U.S. stark for example?? Gee that is talked about a lot.....NOT!!

If you want to see all the back and forth clickk Here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4684&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=uss+libert&start=0) and read over the whole thread and you will see me and others go over in great detail both (or even three arguments) sides of the arguments for or against this being an accident..after that thread you can draw your own conclusions.

Last note, I see people like to bring the liberty website into this and IMO that cant shed any light onto this for NONE of them can possibly know what the pilots thought they were attacking so all that is written there cant prove that the pilots knew and still attacked.

Shalom :D


Sorry man, I just did a quick search on google for "U.S.S. Liberty" and that was one of the links, I honestly do not much of anything about the incident. Therefore, I don't feel accepting your "challenge" in completely necessary.

I did not mean to make a "America vs. Isreal" thread, I merely meant to make a thread so I could learn more about what happen.

I have no prejudice toward Isreal.

I'd also like to thanks everyone for you links, I have learned a lot.

[IDFM203]

Not exactly what happened.. but quoting propaganda is fun.

What exactly happend then? :roll:

From all your posts here I don't understand what your getting at...hehe ;) believe me its quite clear what he is getting at.

Though either you get it or not, all I would say is calm down for he is not disputing what you say as you might think he is or rather more accurately is that its not coming from any hostile view or anything like that.


Shalom :D

[S'13]

Not exactly what happened.. but quoting propaganda is fun.

What exactly happend then? :roll:

From all your posts here I don't understand what your getting at...hehe ;) believe me its quite clear what he is getting at.

Though either you get it or not, all I would say is calm down for he is not disputing what you say as you might think he is or rather more accurately is that its not coming from any hostile view or anything like that.


Shalom :D

I get it... :D Sorry :oops:

[Javehn]

This can be great matterial for some consiracy books . But the matter is indeed very unclear . Perhaps it's involving some ass covering , and a fact distorsion as a result .
The interesting , is that from US side , the congress itself didn't wanted to reopen the interrogation on that matter . Add the people of Liberty , who didn't wanted to bellieve to what has been talled from Israel , felt for cover up and they opened they own protest internet site , and you get conspiracy seekers , and conspirasy stories .

[Universal]

American sailors on board clearly waved an american flag, the jews saw it but continued with the attack.

[S'13]

American sailors on board clearly waved an american flag, the jews saw it but continued with the attack.

you were there and you could read the pilots mind, I'm astonished... :lol:

[Javehn]

American sailors on board clearly waved an american flag, the jews saw it but continued with the attack.

First of all , refrain from using Jews , use Israelies instead .
Second , sailors didn't waved the flag . It is very hard to do this , when you are under attack . The flag was waving an a flag pole , according to Liberty sailors (which can be true , or false , sence it was surveilance ship, and it was outside it's zone ) , and according to Israeli claim , there was no wind , and the flag was unshown .

So , access the meteorogical database , and find the wind that was blowing in midterrainian see , in June 8 , 1967 , and proove that wrong or right . Or you are Liberty survivor in the flash ?? Or perhaps you are Israeli Pilot ?

[StarvingStudent47]

Did you know that Mossad agents assassinated Abraham Lincoln? No joke.

Wouldn't it be interesting if every friendly-fire incident--including an A-10 Warthog killing a bunch of USMC guys in Iraq, and Air Force planes bombing a Canadian shooting range in Afghanistan--was subjected to this level of scrutiny and conspiracy-theory?

[obd]

No, I think its clear that the jews attacked the USS Liberty because they didnt want us overhearing thier plans on world domination and political control over the United States so they could then use its power to attack the arab world.....jeez, I just wanted to say it first before some idiot actually posted it in all seriousness hehe.......

[StarvingStudent47]

No, I think its clear that the jews attacked the USS Liberty because they didnt want us overhearing thier plans on world domination and political control over the United States so they could then use its power to attack the arab world.....jeez, I just wanted to say it first before some idiot actually posted it in all seriousness hehe.......

If you don't tell anybody our secret, I'll let you into some of the proceeds we get from controlling all the world's banks ;)

[Javehn]

If you don't tell anybody our secret, I'll let you into some of the proceeds we get from controlling all the world's banks ;)

Are you Zion Elder ;) ? Cool , nice to meet one finnaly , i allready thought you are not exist !!

Something funny i want to share : 2 days ago i had a chat with some Palestinian living in Levanon (and offcorse , have never ever saw or touched a Jew in his life) . I started to speak to him , and all , and then i talled him , "ana al yahud" (i am jew) . And then done it . From a nice guy (more or less) , it was like that : Jew are monsters . Jews are bad . Jews killed profits . Jews killed Jesus (Muslim profit) . Jews killing Palestinians . Every point i made him (and the fact that the dude knew history , like my 5 years old nephew) , and he started to repeat those things , like some life saving mantras .
Then he started to repeat something else : Jews are Nazies , Jews are triying to control the world . So , you might think that Nazies are something bad , at list that what he thinks . But no ! Soon , he started to chant , Nazies killed Jews , because they knew Jews are low race , and they haven't did something usefull ever .
So , ok , i tell him . You said before , that Nazies are bad . And now you telling that Nazies are good ? You said before we controlling the world , and now you saying we never done something usefull in the world ? You are controdicting yourself !
His answer was : You stupid Jew , you don't even know to talk English , all you know is rubbish !! and again , he started to chant the mantra , of our evillness . The sad thing was , that the guy was pretty much intellegent , and could speak pretty good English (well until i said him I am Jew) . To talk with him felt like trying to **** glass .

[StarvingStudent47]

Are you Zion Elder ;) ? Cool , nice to meet one finnaly , i allready thought you are not exist !!

Oh yeah dude, I'm a Zion Elder. I do all the Zion Elder stuff, like...um...eat matzo ball soup and bone hot Jewish chicks and stuff. Though a Zion Elder has to be expansionistic and aggressive and "force Judaism down everybody's throats," so I bone hot non-Jewish chicks too, and bring them over to the Dark Side :)


Something funny i want to share : 2 days ago i had a chat with some Palestinian living in Levanon (and offcorse , have never ever saw or touched a Jew in his life) . I started to speak to him , and all , and then i talled him , "ana al yahud" (i am jew) . And then done it . From a nice guy (more or less) , it was like that : Jew are monsters . Jews are bad . Jews killed profits . Jews killed Jesus (Muslim profit) . Jews killing Palestinians . Every point i made him (and the fact that the dude knew history , like my 5 years old nephew) , and he started to repeat those things , like some life saving mantras .
Then he started to repeat something else : Jews are Nazies , Jews are triying to control the world . So , you might think that Nazies are something bad , at list that what he thinks . But no ! Soon , he started to chant , Nazies killed Jews , because they knew Jews are low race , and they haven't did something usefull ever .
So , ok , i tell him . You said before , that Nazies are bad . And now you telling that Nazies are good ? You said before we controlling the world , and now you saying we never done something usefull in the world ? You are controdicting yourself !
His answer was : You stupid Jew , you don't even know to talk English , all you know is rubbish !! and again , he started to chant the mantra , of our evillness . The sad thing was , that the guy was pretty much intellegent , and could speak pretty good English (well until i said him I am Jew) . To talk with him felt like trying to **** glass .

That guy is a tool. He kind of reminds of some of these hippies I meet who are like "why do Jews think they should be able to live in the Middle East? The Middle East should belong to Arabs and Arabs alone." I think "here's a white guy in North America trying to explain why Jews don't belong in Jerusalem. Sweet, sweet irony. STFU, hippie."

[Truthsayer]

source: http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/liberty.html

"Your cources are incorrect and inflamatory propaganda. Here, let me post a link to the us-israel-site that we know are 100% correct."