U.S. Apache Helicopter Shot Down West of Baghdad

[seruriermarshal]

BAGHDAD (*******) - A U.S. AH-64 Apache attack helicopter was shot down west of Baghdad on Sunday and the status of the crew was unknown, a U.S. military spokesman said.


The spokesman said the helicopter was downed by "unknown ground fire" at 11:05 am (3:05 a.m. EDT). Apaches normally carry a crew of two and can be armed with missiles and automatic cannon.


U.S. troops and Sunni Muslim guerrillas have fought fierce battles this week on the western fringe of Baghdad and in the cities of Falluja and Ramadi.

[seruriermarshal]

U.S. Apache Shot Down in Baghdad

BAGHDAD, Iraq — Insurgents shot down a U.S. Apache (search) attack helicopter in west Baghdad on Sunday, the military said. The fate of its two crewmembers was unknown.

Heavy fighting was taking place in the area for the third straight day.

"A 1st Cavalry AH-64 Apache helicopter was downed by unknown ground fire west of Baghdad at around 11:05 a.m. The condition of the crew is unknown," the spokesman said.

U.S. troops blocked traffic on the main highway out of Baghdad on the western edge. Large palls of black smoke were seen rising from the nearby area of Abu Ghraib (search), where at least four helicopters were seen hovering overhead.



:(

In city can't use helicopter ......

[seruriermarshal]

U.S. Helicopter Shot Down in Baghdad

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents shot down a U.S. Apache helicopter in west Baghdad on Sunday, the military said. The fate of its two-member crew was unknown. Heavy fighting was taking place in the area for the third straight day.



"A 1st Cavalry A8-64 Apache helicopter was downed by unknown ground fire west of Baghdad at around 11:05 a.m. The condition of the crew is unknown," the spokesman said.


U.S. troops blocked traffic on the main highway out of Baghdad on the western edge. Large palls of black smoke were seen rising from the nearby area of Abu Ghraib, where at least four helicopters were seen hovering overhead.


Masked gunmen have been roaming the roads in west Baghdad for the past three days, attacking military fuel convoys, blowing up tanker trucks. An American civilian guarding a convoy, Thomas Hammil, was kidnapped in an attack Friday that also killed a U.S. soldier and an Iraqi driver.


Hammil's captors have threatened to kill him if the siege against Sunni insurgents in nearby Fallujah is not lifted.

[aktarian]

Anybody noticed decrease in (reported) MANPADS attacks?

[seruriermarshal]

Anybody noticed decrease in (reported) MANPADS attacks?

I don't know it because RPG or other ......

[SeanAshi]

I don't know it because RPG or other ......I know nothing about rpg's but when launched they don't look very accurate?

[Trident-za]

I don't know it because RPG or other ......I know nothing about rpg's but when launched they don't look very accurate?

They're not very accurate, but a "skilled" person can still usually hit what he's aiming at, generally speaking. Firing at helicpoters is considerably more difficult of course...

I hope the crew members are OK.

[seruriermarshal]

I don't know it because RPG or other ......I know nothing about rpg's but when launched they don't look very accurate?

Maybe those Iraq sh*t use 2 or more RPG ......

[mustamato]

I don't know it because RPG or other ......I know nothing about rpg's but when launched they don't look very accurate?

If the Apache was hovering "close" with its side against me even I would try
my luck with a RPG-7v if I was a insurgent. But I doubt that the Apaches are
hovering close to built up areas, so hm. Probably MANPAD (SA-7/SA-16).

http://www.rense.com/general48/sams.htm

Some specifications of the SA-16

http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/pics/sivu131.jpg

shoulder-fired AA missile
heat-seeking, not infrared
missile length 1.7 m
missile diameter 72 mm
missile weight 11 kg
mount weight 7 kg
combat charge 2 kg, of which 390 g explosive
missile speed 700 m/s
destructive range 500 to 5,200 m
destructive altitude 10 to 3,500 m
manufactured in the Soviet Union

[aktarian]

Remember those MANPADS attack on planes at airports (DHL, C-17). I was talking about that.....

[Anti-Tank]

I´dont think that it was shot down with a rpg. Odds for hitting with that are very high. More likely with a HMG or something?

[seruriermarshal]

Yes , SA-7/SA-16 , A 1st Cavalry AH-64 Apache , Perhaps it's an AH-64D .

[aktarian]

http://www.rense.com/general48/sams.htm


I would stay away from that site if you are after serious info and/or analysis. they often publish such crap I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

[Uncle Chô]

Anybody noticed on videos a Cessna O-2 Skymaster flying low over Fallujah (yes, the same aircraft they used as FAC aircraft in Vietnam) ?

This aircraft might be one of the three private Cessna used by a private company from Florida as a Pentagone civil contractors for surveillance duties in Kosovo and now Iraq.

They have FLIR and TV pods under the wings and are operated by former USAF crews.

I hope they won't take too much risks and lost an airplane because this company is one of my customer ;)

[Sergeant]

mustamato, yeah that is pretty easy to use, it's redicilous.

[seruriermarshal]

Two Killed When Helicopter Downed in Iraq
7 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents shot down a U.S. Apache helicopter in west Baghdad on Sunday, killing its two-member crew, the military said.

A quick-reaction force was on site gathering the bodies, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said at a briefing in Baghdad.

The 1st Cavalry AH-64 Apache helicopter was downed at around 11:05 a.m., officials had said.

U.S. troops blocked traffic on the main highway out of Baghdad on the western edge. Clouds of black smoke were seen rising from the nearby area of Abu Ghraib, where at least four helicopters were seen hovering overhead.

Masked gunmen have been roaming the roads in west Baghdad for the past three days, attacking military fuel convoys, blowing up tanker trucks. An American civilian guarding a convoy, Thomas Hammil, was kidnapped in an attack Friday that also killed a U.S. soldier and an Iraqi driver.

Hammil's captors have threatened to kill him if the siege against Sunni insurgents in nearby Fallujah is not lifted.


RIP

:( :( :(

[mustamato]

mustamato, yeah that is pretty easy to use, it's redicilous.

And I assume that most Iraqi men have a couple of years of military experience
due to conscription and refresher training. So even if some dude doesn´t know how
to use it, there is probably someone that knows and can learn it to him.

Wouldn´t surprise me if they did teach Iraqi schoolkids stuff like that, just in case
the "infidels" would invade the country some day.

[MK133]

You think those __________'s are using Stingers?

[Claymore]

Strela/Igla sounds more likely. Or just RPG.

[HELEX]

ATGM can be used against Helicopters too, if they have some of them...

[cold0]

An interesting article about the Iraqi MANPADS:


JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - MARCH 24, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Modified Igla-1 found in Iraq
JIM O'HALLORAN JDW Special Correspondent
London
Additional reporting by Andrew Koch JDW Bureau Chief
Washington, DC and
Katie White JDW Special Correspondent
London

US-led coalition forces in Iraq have discovered a modified version of the Russian-designed Igla-1 man-portable air-defence system (MANPADS) near Baghdad, raising questions of whether the weapon is a new and serious threat to aircraft flying over the country.

Some 16 US helicopters have been downed over Iraq since the combat phase of Operation 'Iraqi Freedom' was declared over on 1 May 2003. Of these, 11 are attributed to hostile fire, including four believed shot by rocket-propelled grenades. Additionally, a US Air Force C-17 Globemaster strategic transport aircraft and a DHL Airbus A300 civilian cargo aircraft were struck by MANPADS respectively taking off and landing at Baghdad.

While not specifically commenting on the upgraded Igla-1, a number of senior US Army officials have recently spoken publicly about the growing threat faced by helicopters and other aircraft flying over Iraq. Announcing the termination of the RAH-66 Comanche attack helicopter programme on 23 February, Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations Lt Gen Richard Cody noted: "We are seeing a proliferation of MANPADS, IR [infra-red] missile systems, [and] more sophisticated air-defence systems [in Iraq]".

US defence officials say they are investigating the newly identified system but are yet to reach any conclusions about whether it contains significant new capabilities or presents problems for US air-defence countermeasures.

The modified Igla-1 has a red front end (RFE) missile seeker, the first time such a coating has been seen on an IR-guided missile, defence sources told JDW. It is not known if the red coating boosts the missile's performance, although there is speculation that this may improve its ability to discriminate against background clutter. It would also appear that the missile's front-end, which houses the electronics package and detection circuits, is also slightly longer with a small increase in diameter size.

Markings so far recovered from the RFE missile are in Cyrillic, and would therefore suggest Russian or former Eastern Bloc involvement in developing the new and probably improved seeker.

Further, it is understood that before 'Iraqi Freedom', the Al-Fatah Factory of the Al-Karama State Company in Baghdad may have been involved in this development. This factory was visited by the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission on 11 December 2002, during which time it was mainly involved with making mechanical parts for the guidance and control system of the Al-Samoud short-range ballistic missile.

It was also reported at that time to be manufacturing components for the Saddam Arrow, a hitherto unknown shoulder-fired surface-to-air missile.

The Igla-1 and its predecessors, the Strela-2/-2M and Strela-3 (SA-7a/b and SA-14), are known to be in Iraq.

The Igla-1 export version is a second-generation system that incorporates the best of the export Strela-3 and from the new Igla family of missiles. The Igla-1 uses the 9E418 seeker, which was first identified on the export Strela-3. The Igla-1 also had a new improved motor, electronics package and warhead. The Russian system uses a totally different Indium Antimony (InSb) seeker 9K410. As with the Strela-3, the front end of the missile dome is a creamy off-white opaque glass that is used as a filtration device.

The Strela-2/-2M is a first-generation IR SAM system (9K32/9K32M) designed in the late 1950s, which went through research and development in the early 1960s and was first deployed with the Soviet Army in the mid- to late-1960s. The missile (9M32/9M32M) has a very limited engagement capability with a tail chase aspect only. The missile seeker (9E46/9E46M) was developed at the Leningrad (now St Petersburg) Optical Mechanical Plant, employs a PbS uncooled lead sulphide IR detector that operates in the 0.2-1.5µm-band with an Instantaneous Field of View (IFoV) of 1.9º. This type of seeker can be easily recognised by the clear-glass front end that protects the IR detection circuits.

The Strela-3 (9K34-1 export version) was an interim system developed between 1968 and 1972. The then Soviet forces version was first operationally deployed in 1974 and offered for export shortly thereafter. The export system basically upgraded the Strela-2/-2M with a cooled seeker (9E418), giving the missile a capability, albeit limited, for both front and rear aspect. The missile (9M36-1) employs the same seeker (9E418) that was eventually used in the export variant of the Igla-1. The missile seeker dome, unlike its predecessor has a creamy off-white opaque glass front end that is used as the filtration device. The 9E418 seeker IFoV is 40º.