Video of Slain Westerners Shown on Arab TV

[Korth]

I believe that it is the two missing GSG-9 operators.

FOXNEWS

BAGHDAD, Iraq — The bloodied bodies of two men, purportedly Americans killed during fighting in Fallujah (search), were shown on Arab TV Sunday.

It was not clear when the two were killed. In the footage, aired on Al-Jazeera (search), gunmen seen moving around the bodies are heard saying that the two are American intelligence agents. They pointed to a burning car nearby they said belonged to the two men.

One of the bodies lay sprawled on the pavement, his face bloody and his right leg drenched in blood. The other had been rolled onto his stomach, his shirt pulled up to show a bullet wound in his back.

Both appeared to be Westerners and wore dark t-shirts and khaki pants commonly worn by private security contractors.

Marines have been fighting this week against Sunni (search) insurgents in Fallujah, but both sides were largely observing a cease-fire on Sunday.

Regards
Korth

[Brozozo]

Why do those assh*les have to parade their victims.

Right now I would give my left nut to see a clip of Marines dragging a dead Iraqi militant behind a Hum-vee or dancing around his body, waving flags and shooting in the air in a mockery of the militants' actions.

[chauncy republicans]

Why do those assh*les have to parade their victims.
You obviously, have never been in combat with American soldiers. Everyone cheers and rejoices when they kill their enemy. American soldiers do.

[Korth]

Why do those assh*les have to parade their victims.
You obviously, have never been in combat with American soldiers. Everyone cheers and rejoices when they kill their enemy. American soldiers do.


How is it that Sixgun Symphony gets condemned when this kind of **** goes on here?

[chauncy republicans]

How is it that Sixgun Symphony gets condemned when this kind of **** goes on here?
WTF are you talking about?

[cut]

the only person who ever liked sixgun, was...sixgun, new username?

[American Patriot]

Chode republicans: your comments are very inappropriate.

[Korth]

How is it that Sixgun Symphony gets condemned when this kind of **** goes on here?
WTF are you talking about?

Just die you mother****er.

[chauncy republicans]

O.K. So you have never been in combat. Don't flame me for posting the truth! Everyone feels joyfull and relieved when their enemy is killed!
Dont comment on things you know nothing about!

[SeanAshi]

Al Jazeera at it again...

[chauncy republicans]

the only person who ever liked sixgun, was...sixgun, new username?
WTF are you talking about...revolvers!?

[chauncy republicans]

Al Jazeera at it again...
Like I said none of you have been in combat! So **** off!

[American Patriot]

Al Jazeera at it again...
Like I said none of you have been in combat! So f*** off!

You're a moron.

[chauncy republicans]

Have you ever seen combat!? Where you ever an American Infantry man!?

[Korth]

Al Jazeera at it again...
Like I said none of you have been in combat! So f*** off!

You don't know of what you speak.

If you were out in combat, then it is really sad that you did not get killed. You are such an asswipe, I can only hope that you die soon and that you die horribly.

[Trident-za]

OK, lets do a quick test shall we? All the guys who have posted in the thread so far who HAVE been in combat raise your hands....

I don't agree with the way the corpses get shown around or mutilated etc. That kind of thing pisses me off! But, I seem to remember a video clip showing marines cheering when they killed someone... and sadly, what chauncy republicans said is true: most soldiers in combat do behave in a less than politically correct manner when a "bad guy" goes down.... war isn't pretty.

[chauncy republicans]

Al Jazeera at it again...
Like I said none of you have been in combat! So f*** off!

You don't know of what you speak.

If you were out in combat, then it is really sad that you did not get killed. You are such an asswipe, I can only hope that you die soon and that you die horribly.
LMAO you are just some idealist!

[chauncy republicans]

OK, lets do a quick test shall we? All the guys who have posted in the thread so far who HAVE been in combat raise your hands....

I don't agree with the way the corpses get shown around or mutilated etc. That kind of thing pisses me off! But, I seem to remember a video clip showing marines cheering when they killed someone... and sadly, what chauncy republicans said is true: most soldiers in combat do behave in a less than politically correct manner when a "bad guy" goes down.... war isn't pretty.
Thank You !

[Trident-za]

You don't know of what you speak.

If you were out in combat, then it is really sad that you did not get killed. You are such an asswipe, I can only hope that you die soon and that you die horribly.

:roll: :roll:

[Korth]

Uh-huh, yea sure.

Why don't you go dancing in a minefield?

[Brozozo]

OK, lets do a quick test shall we? All the guys who have posted in the thread so far who HAVE been in combat raise your hands....

I don't agree with the way the corpses get shown around or mutilated etc. That kind of thing pisses me off! But, I seem to remember a video clip showing marines cheering when they killed someone... and sadly, what chauncy republicans said is true: most soldiers in combat do behave in a less than politically correct manner when a "bad guy" goes down.... war isn't pretty.

They sure do cheer but do they drag their bodies behind a vehicle, burn them or dismember them?

[chauncy republicans]

Uh-huh, yea sure.

Why don't you go dancing in a minefield?
I already have!

[American Patriot]

war isn't pretty.

War can be pretty. :lol:

[SeanAshi]

Right now on Al Jazeeras english website they have the pictures on the front page of the dead Americans ****ing savages

[Trident-za]

OK, lets do a quick test shall we? All the guys who have posted in the thread so far who HAVE been in combat raise your hands....

I don't agree with the way the corpses get shown around or mutilated etc. That kind of thing pisses me off! But, I seem to remember a video clip showing marines cheering when they killed someone... and sadly, what chauncy republicans said is true: most soldiers in combat do behave in a less than politically correct manner when a "bad guy" goes down.... war isn't pretty.

They sure do cheer but do they drag their bodies behind a vehicle, burn them or dismember them?

I think you should read my post again. The mistreating of bodies is NOT something I think is OK - by anyone, under any circumstances.

[Brozozo]

Have you ever seen combat!? Where you ever an American Infantry man!?

That was the stupidest comment I have ever heard. Do your parents know you're staying up after hours and visiting this forum?

Have you ever considered suicide?

[Korth]

Uh-huh, yea sure.

Why don't you go dancing in a minefield?
I already have!

Not enough times if you are still here.

[American Patriot]

Getting back on topic, who are those two dead Americans(?) the terrorists taped for their little home movie? My guess is PMC.

[SeanAshi]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/64583899-BD41-4851-9C9C-A2BA1FDC9F1C/34365/6647E6377EBE4B5EB816CD68D704A549.jpg

[HELEX]

Getting back on topic, who are those two dead Americans(?) the terrorists taped for their little home movie? My guess is PMC.

They were the missing germans according to latest info...

[ibstolidude]

Why do those assh*les have to parade their victims.
You obviously, have never been in combat with American soldiers. Everyone cheers and rejoices when they kill their enemy. American soldiers do.
Really I've never done that ask Beo, Shrek, TP &/or James (granted he they were not soldiers but Marines) ask XASA or Tane Angle.

.


PS you didn't really address the post - American Soldiers (as with most of prof. soldiers in most armies in modern times) do not, as a habit/norm, drag the bodies of their fallen enemies through the streets, hang them up and beat them, then tear them to pieces. But feel free to post some proof of this "norm" should you have it.

[ibstolidude]

If you were out in combat, then it is really sad that you did not get killed. You are such an asswipe, I can only hope that you die soon and that you die horribly.

I have spent many many many months in HFZ and/or combat zones. I disagree with what ChaucyRep wrote, however that does not change the fact the YOU are an ASS for posting this.

There is no room in the forums for this kind of post, regardless of how much you choose to disagree. I would suggest this becomes known as "the mistake you made once a long time ago", rather than a repeat reason for you draw the attention of the MODS and ADMIN.

Any complaints feel free to PM.

[SFontaine]

Good post ib.

[khukuri]

I have spent many many many months in HFZ and/or combat zones. I disagree with what ChaucyRep wrote,

I dont think he meant that everybody would do that, but some would. And thats the way it is.

Aljazeera...
Nobody of you whine when cnn or any other western channel show images of dead iraqis. But when aljazeera do the same with americans its suddenly a terrorist channel. I am happy that channel exists, without it I think we people would know less than we know now.

[Romulus]

Nobody of you whine when cnn or any other western channel show images of dead iraqis.

They are? Really? Must be a "Different" CNN than I watch.

[TriggerPuller]

Chauncy republican, care to enlighten ME on your vast combat experiences? My BS flag is going up the pole on you now!! Branch,unit,and conflicts in that order!!!!

TP

[TriggerPuller]

Where you at war hero?

TP

[MetalBoy]

Uh-huh, yea sure.

Why don't you go dancing in a minefield?
I already have!
He's too busy dancing in that minefield.

[chauncy republicans]

Really I've never done that ask Beo, Shrek, TP &/or James (granted he they were not soldiers but Marines) ask XASA or Tane Angle.
PS you didn't really address the post - American Soldiers (as with most of prof. soldiers in most armies in modern times) do not, as a habit/norm, drag the bodies of their fallen enemies through the streets, hang them up and beat them, then tear them to pieces.
Have you ever been on the front-lines of a battlefield? Soldiers and Marines cheer and breath a sigh of relief when the enemy has been killed. This is not a bad thing, just human nature. I think that the Iraqi's have more anger built up inside towards the Americans, and when there is a lack of leadership and lack of proper training, atrocities are commited. Yes, the people who drag and mutilate dead soldier's bodys are very disrespectful and what they do is savage, but they are still human acting on the very same emotions we all have, they(war criminals) unfortunatly have no
leadership to keep their emotions in check.

[Korth]

I wish it were this person driving one of the sport utility vehicles in Fallujah rather than the four people who were killed and mutilated.

[ibstolidude]

Have you ever been on the front-lines of a battlefield? Soldiers and Marines cheer and breath a sigh of relief when the enemy has been killed. This is not a bad thing, just human nature. I think that the Iraqi's have more anger built up inside towards the Americans, and when there is a lack of leadership and lack of proper training, atrocities are commited. Yes, the people who drag and mutilate dead soldier's bodys are very disrespectful and what they do is savage, but they are still human acting on the very same emotions we all have, they(war criminals) unfortunatly have no
leadership to keep their emotions in check.
Yes, & I have been in battle fields that lack front lines all together. I have also been so far removed from the leadership that should I have desired, I could have slaughtered with a fair degree of impunity. Leadership has NEVER kept me "incheck". If you feel the only thing keeping Servicemen (and I don't just mean the US I also mean the dozens of over proff. armies) from dragging the bodies of their dead enemies in the streets, beating their corpses with sticks, jumping on them, burning them, tearing them to peices and hanging them on display is the "check" of the leadership....
you have bigger problems.

Sorry on this we will never agree.

[Jack Mehoff]

Really I've never done that ask Beo, Shrek, TP &/or James (granted he they were not soldiers but Marines) ask XASA or Tane Angle.
PS you didn't really address the post - American Soldiers (as with most of prof. soldiers in most armies in modern times) do not, as a habit/norm, drag the bodies of their fallen enemies through the streets, hang them up and beat them, then tear them to pieces.
Have you ever been on the front-lines of a battlefield? Soldiers and Marines cheer and breath a sigh of relief when the enemy has been killed. This is not a bad thing, just human nature. I think that the Iraqi's have more anger built up inside towards the Americans, and when there is a lack of leadership and lack of proper training, atrocities are commited. Yes, the people who drag and mutilate dead soldier's bodys are very disrespectful and what they do is savage, but they are still human acting on the very same emotions we all have, they(war criminals) unfortunatly have no
leadership to keep their emotions in check.
It's called right and wrong aka conscience.

I was ****ing pissed off at anybody who looks arab in September 11, but you don't and probably never will see me go kill anybody who look arab and hang them on the bridge. You need some serious help if you think leadership keeps your emotions in check. It's your "conscience" that keeps your emotions in check.

[Tane Angle]

Work is slow right now, so I'm sitting here reading this thread, mulling it over. I don't really know what to say, so I guess I'll just start writing before something takes me away from the message board again. Here goes nothing.

I've been in combat. I've been responsible for people's deaths, sometimes telling others where and who to shoot, and sometimes with my own hands. Did I feel that it was necessary to protect my people's lives? Of course. Would I do it again if I had to? Of course. But did I rejoice? No. There was never any rejoicing by any of the people I've worked with. It has always been simply "one task done, let's move on to the next task." That dehumanizes the act, and the target, which is necessary to survive psychologically. But you bet I felt bad about it. To this day, I feel horrible about it. This is combat.

I took the lives of other humans. People who probably thought they were doing the right thing, by their culture's standards. People who almost certainly had led very good, respectable existences for most of their lives. People who got up early every morning to work hard all day, who loved their families and thought they were helping their kin by attacking us, people who thought that killing me was the right thing to do. People who sometimes were doing the right thing, even by our culture's standards, had our situations been reversed, if that makes any sense. People who sometimes might even have been doing the same thing I might have done, had I been in their shoes. People who were, for the most part, just like me. They thought they were protecting their families and their comrades, and so did I. Did they deserve to die? I can't say for sure, but they were threats to my people.

It was the right thing to do, but that doesn't make it good. And I know this. Moreover, I know that those who killed to protect me specifically know this, and still feel the consequences. I said thank you to them, and still do. But I also say that I am sorry for putting them through that. We didn't celebrate, and we don't to this day. Indeed, while we may have saved lives at the tactical level, the fact remains that the same exact types of threats, and in some cases, the same groups, are once again beleaguering our people.

I can deal with the fact that I killed other humans. I can deal with the fact that people were trying to kill me, though they were never after me specifically. I can even deal with the fact that others killed for me. It was all to save lives in the immediate sense. But what gets to me is that we killed and in the long term sense, it was in vain. We still left Lebanon; we still abandoned innocent civilian hostages, including Americans.

Was that beautiful, if war-torn country a better, more peaceful place for our having been there? I don't honestly know, and I'd like to. But I can deal with not knowing. What gets to me is that the people I worked with don't know. They deserve better than that; they deserve the peace of mind that comes with knowing that they made a difference for the better, that it all did some good. And I can't always tell them that honestly.

I have two points with the above writings. The first is to say that it is not a welcome sight to see people wishing death on others, even if we disagree with them-that includes suggesting suicide and dancing in minefields. I've seen my fair share of both, including having been suicidal myself and having an intense respect for landmines, and the comments are not appreciated, even if I perhaps am somewhat insulted (perhaps unintentionally) by the person they are direct towards. I would not wish my enemies dead - I wish them peaceful and no longer threatening, but not dead.

The second point is that with all due respect, sir, please do not make assumptions that we cheer. We are always thankful that we are not burying one another, but we do not celebrate. This is combat: we just took the life from another human being. One who was just as good by their standards as I am by our own. One I was probably more alike than different from. And when there were dead to be claimed, we buried them with their native honors if we were unable to return the fallen to their comrades and families. We did not commit atrocities, though we had little leadership breathing down our necks. There is no excuse for atrocities.

I would ask if you have ever been on the front lines of a battlefield, much less behind the enemy ones, but I am not sure if it matters. Perhaps you are writing about what you know from personal experience, having been there yourself; I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

God rest the dead.

Not that he needs my help at all, as he is fully able to take care of himself, but I would like give my humble support to ib, if he will have it, as he has made a very good post, evenhanded and fair. A good man with much honor, ib commands my respect. I do my best to show him respect, but maybe showing respect to those who deserve it is not everyone's cup of tea. One last thing, if I may-even if one doesn't think a person deserves respect, showing it to that person anyways can be extremely important. That's how the world works. It builds credibility and *******, two of the most important words humans can know.

I do not intend to offend anyone with any of this, and I apologize in advance if I have miswrote offended anyone. As always, have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[American Patriot]

There you have it, chauncy. I hope you appreciate your lesson on American people and how much ass we kick.

[khukuri]

http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/iraqiwar.wmv

I understand the point he is trying to make. And unfortenly hes right. I dont think he means that people generelly chear when their enemys were killed. I know ex soilders from different wars who done the different things when they killed their enemys. Some of them still talk gladly how they killed people some of them dont want to remember.

Ive never been in combat but in war as a civilian with many military around me, family and so on... And judging by how they acted, differently...

Thanks for the good post Tane Angle.

And no, the video above is not the same as dragging people out and burn them, but still it makes a point of what chauncy is trying to say.

the behaivour in what happend with those 4 is a very savage behaviour, bear in minds that after 35 years of saddam opression some people have become like that. When you normal day job consists of tortering youre enemys. Even if some of you out there think this is an arab behaviour its not, we arabs are just as shocked as everybody else.

[Tane Angle]

Do we kick butt? As I alluded to above, we have failed to utilize out "butt-kicking" capabilities when we perhaps should have most. We left good people to die. Innocent civilian Americans to die. Not to mention uniformed servicemembers. What really get to me is that we didn't learn from our mistakes, and did it again under Presidents George Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush. I love my nation and my people with all my heart, and I would gladly give my life for them if they asked it, but I feel very obligated to say that we very often do not kick butt.

That last phrase exemplifies some of my posts on here, including the above one-I feel obligated to the abandoned to do the little that I can to ensure that the future policy makers do not make the same mistakes and do not so easily throw away their own people.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[TALOS]

Tane, very nice post, your insight and the insight of other true soldiers is what drew me to this site.
I am not nor have I ever claimed to be a veteran, Coast Guard Auxiliary is as close as I got, but I do try to be informed as possible and thats why I read what I can in here as well as numerous books.

I just wanted to answer to the Jessica Lynch thing. I have the interview on tape and she never said it didnt occur, she said she didnt recall and that it was a period of time she wished to not remember. IMO, I think it did happen and her evasive answers only reinforced that TO ME.

[FallenAngel]

Tane, EXCELLENT posts. Quite possibly some of the best I've read here in the year plus I've been a member.

Having never been in combat myself, I can only speak as to what others have told me. Were there times when they were relieved that it was the enemy and not them? Yes. Did they indulge in some of the darker parts of human nature, perhaps relishing the death of the enemy as a sufficient answer to the desire for revenge of the death of a colleague, friend or relative? Maybe. What I do know is that they were all good men- each one having the moral conviction to do only enough to ensure that he and his friends came home alive. They had no officer or even senior noncome breathing down their neck watching their every move, no- they had morals and stuck to them.

chauncy republicans, comparing the relief and expression of fear-based adrenaline and the blatant and calculated mutilation of bodies of men who will never pose a threat again are far distant from each other. The fact that you can't see that difference is....at least unsettling to me if you are indeed a veteran.

Tane....stay safe buddy. Remember there are perfect strangers pulling for you and enjoying (sometimes abusing it as well) the freedom you've fought for and are trying to bring to others.

[TriggerPuller]

[quote="FallenAngel"]
. The fact that you can't see that difference is....at least unsettling to me if you are indeed a veteran.

quote] My thought exactly!

TP