KOSOVO ALbanians dismiss Serbian constitution

[cetnik]

Kosovo Albanians dismiss Serbian constitution
October 30, 2006 11:45 AM
PRISTINA, Serbia-Serbian leaders on Monday hailed the outcome of a referendum restating the country's claim to Kosovo. But the European Union said the results of U.N.-mediated talks alone will decide the province's future status, and Kosovo's independence-minded ethnic Albanian majority dismissed the vote as a futile exercise.
The Serb plebiscite comes at a sensitive time, with Serbs and Kosovo Albanians deadlocked over demands from Belgrade that it be allowed to retain some hold on the province and Kosovo Albanians' insistence on independence.
Talks mediated by the United Nations have failed to resolve the impasse over the province's future, which led to a war between the two sides that ended in June 1999, after NATO bombing forced a withdrawal by troops loyal to Slobodan Milosevic, president of what was then Serbian-dominated Yugoslavia.
Kosovo has been governed since then by the U.N., although ethnic Albanians, who constitute a more than 90-percent majority, have been granted increasing political responsibility. Along with Serbs outside Kosovo, the province's ethnic Serb minority is also vehemently opposed to independence for the province.
The referendum, on a new post-Milosevic era constitution that restates the Serb claim to Kosovo, nearly foundered with barely more than the required 50 percent turnout needed to make it valid.
Still, Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica declared the results "made it clear that we will protect our country's integrity ... and that Kosovo is part of Serbia."
While voter participation was low in Serbia proper, 82.1 percent of those eligible voted among Kosovo's 100,000-strong Serb community, reflecting their fears for the future.
"It's important for us Serbs here to show that Kosovo is Serbia. We can't stay here otherwise, it would be impossible," said Serb Zivorad Kisic, in Kosovo's ethnically divided Kosovska Mitrovica. "This constitution gives us a glimmer of hope."
Oliver Ivanovic, a Kosovo Serb leader, said the new constitution sends a "very important message" to international officials mediating in talks between Belgrade and Pristina.
"Serbia will not easily give up Kosovo, this is the main message," he said. "It tells the international community it must take into account the Serb stand as well, not only the one of (Kosovo) Albanians."
Predictably, Kosovo Albanians differed.
"We consider it very irrelevant," Kosovo Prime Minister Agim Ceku said of the weekend vote in comments to Associated Press Television News.
Xhevat Matoshi, a pharmacist, said he felt pity for the Serbs.
"I don't care" about the referendum's outcome, he said in Pristina, the provincial capital. They need to understand that they lost Kosovo, and accept that we (Albanians) are majority."
And Sherif Bajgora, a 55-year-old retiree, said that Serbs should restrict their voting to "their own country." He added: "Here we have our own country."
The EU downplayed the referendum's significance, with EU spokeswoman Krisztina Nagy saying "the issue of the future status of Kosovo" was being dealt with the U.N.-mediated talks. And she said that Kosovo's ethnic Albanian majority was left off voters lists.
Frank Wisner, the U.S. envoy to the Kosovo talks already said last week that the referendum would not affect the international community's decision on the province's final status.
Meanwhile, the united front shown during the referendum by Serbia's main political parties was cracking Monday as pro-Western reformists and the hardline nationalists disagreed over the country's next vote, planned early elections.
The pro-Western president and his Democratic Party want to hold both parliamentary and presidential elections before year end. Serbian Radical Party leader Tomislav Nikolic said it would be "impossible" to hold elections this year and that the votes should be staggered.
Kosovo, long an autonomous province of Serbia, was stripped of that status 1989 by Milosevic amid a building Serb crackdown on the ethnic Albanian majority. The war that followed nearly a decade later left about 10,000 people dead, most of them ethnic Albanians. About 1 million others fled temporarily to neighboring Albania and Macedonia.
Reporting on what it billed as a compromise solution, the daily newspaper "Express" on Monday published details of a draft U.N. envoy Martti Ahtisaari is expected to present by mid-November. It quoted an unidentified diplomat saying the document stops short of mentioning independence. "But the sovereign competencies given in this document have only one meaning: independence with limited sovereignty," the quote read.


In my opinion this is like voting to say California is paart of the US.Sad but true we needed a vote to acknowledge thar our land is in fact our land.:roll:

[TheMacedonian]

Kosovo Albanians dismiss Serbian constitution

In my opinion this is like voting to say California is paart of the US.Sad but true we needed a vote to acknowledge thar our land is in fact our land.:roll:

You know very well why there was a referendum. :)

The Serbian leadership is not sure how to proceed. Now they have the legitimacy of the referendum and any action they take to keep Kosovo is pre-approved that is including armed actions.

[spale]

You know very well why there was a referendum. :)

The Serbian leadership is not sure how to proceed. Now they have the legitimacy of the referendum and any action they take to keep Kosovo is pre-approved that is including armed actions.

Referendum was on Serbian Constitution.
Kosovo is mentioned in it.

wtf are you on about?

[martinexsquaddie]

serbia claims kosovo is part of serbia and always will be.
slight problem is 90% of the population of kosovo is prepared to kill rather than being under serbian control again especially as they did such a great job when they were in power :(
UN now controls kosovo does'nt really want it to be independant as that will kick off balkan wars part 3 4 whatever whose counting when murder and mayhem is the main achievement. but knows full well serbian sovreinty over kosovo is never going to happen.
anyone who can sort this problem out with a solution that does not involve a mountain of corpses give the UN a ring

[127th Knights]

He's saying that with the new consitition...we let the european community know that we're serious about kosovo. The EU can't say in any future conflict that this is a product of milosevic or current leadership mismanagement. The PEOPLE voted for this...Therefore, any future conflict would involve the people of the conflicting nations. That's what he was trying to say. We're just legitimizing a use of force really. Our borders will be completely operated by the police which in turn will allow the army to mobilize elsewhere. Who knows what's gonna happen.

[niner.alpha]

We're just legitimizing a use of force really. Our borders will be completely operated by the police which in turn will allow the army to mobilize elsewhere. Who knows what's gonna happen.

Nothing - what can you do? What is done, is done. Do you think that people of Serbia are ready for another war? Do you think that after all wars Serbia had (and lost, btw) for the past 15 yrs, anyone has a will to fight, while your country is getting in deeper and deeper and deeper sh!t? Boy you still need visa to travel to EU, imagine what would happen if you wage a war down there again...Black hole of Europe, that's what it would became. Beside, no one will allow it, nor will anyone back you up on this - speaking of major players here...
Hmmm, just remembering those sanctions, NATO playground - future doesn't look to promising.
Status quo can last for decades, that wouldn't be the first example...
But, hey, nothing can compare with returned "proud and honour", right? Just imagine another celebration of lost Battle of Kosovo! That would be magnificent, worth of gambling with your future...

Wake up, guys, game is in it's finals...

[eugenlitwin]

it s looks like Serbs are ready to fight…

[outcold00]

Nothing - what can you do? What is done, is done. Do you think that people of Serbia are ready for another war? Do you think that after all wars Serbia had (and lost, btw) for the past 15 yrs, anyone has a will to fight, while your country is getting in deeper and deeper and deeper sh!t? Boy you still need visa to travel to EU, imagine what would happen if you wage a war down there again...Black hole of Europe, that's what it would became. Beside, no one will allow it, nor will anyone back you up on this - speaking of major players here...
Hmmm, just remembering those sanctions, NATO playground - future doesn't look to promising.
Status quo can last for decades, that wouldn't be the first example...
But, hey, nothing can compare with returned "proud and honour", right? Just imagine another celebration of lost Battle of Kosovo! That would be magnificent, worth of gambling with your future...

Wake up, guys, game is in it's finals...
We waited 500 years to take Kosovo back, so if we have we will wait 500 more years. Kosovo will always be Serbian!

[Raptus_regaliter]

Lockdown in 3.......2.................1................................

[127th Knights]

Nothing - what can you do? What is done, is done. Do you think that people of Serbia are ready for another war? Do you think that after all wars Serbia had (and lost, btw) for the past 15 yrs, anyone has a will to fight, while your country is getting in deeper and deeper and deeper sh!t? Boy you still need visa to travel to EU, imagine what would happen if you wage a war down there again...Black hole of Europe, that's what it would became. Beside, no one will allow it, nor will anyone back you up on this - speaking of major players here...
Hmmm, just remembering those sanctions, NATO playground - future doesn't look to promising.
Status quo can last for decades, that wouldn't be the first example...
But, hey, nothing can compare with returned "proud and honour", right? Just imagine another celebration of lost Battle of Kosovo! That would be magnificent, worth of gambling with your future...

Wake up, guys, game is in it's finals...


you really don't understand our mentality do you? I'm not going to sit here and verbally abuse you, but you just don't get it. Those people over there have absolutely nothing to lose. What are they going to lose? A few dinars? Maybe cable if they have it? There is absolutely nothing to lose! Do you understand that? There is no point in joining the EU if you're joining it as a 2nd rate country. The people there understand that. The only people that want to join the EU are the elderly who believe that they'll recieve EU pensions. Not even Croatia wants to SELL its coastline property to non-croats and that's why they won't be allowed into the EU. You just don't get it and I feel so sorry for you. There are things in live more important than life itself. Freedom, honor, being able to look at yourself in the mirror every morning. So yes...we are looking forward to one final battle. As our prophet said..."at the end of our final battle, the Serbian nation will gather under one plum tree...and weep, and laugh, and sing for her fallen heros". I won't ever talk you into believing that we're right...and you'll never talk me into believing that you're right...EVER. So get it over it and stop trying to impose any "western" style of thinking. You want to give up your own national sovereignty to another country or organization...fine...that's your own progative. Cao.

[127th Knights]

you people think that muhadjadins are crazy. Well they're the way they are because they are defending their religion in their own way. They aren't fighting for ethnicity, nationhood, or trying to preserve their race. So how bad do you think its gonna get over there when the Serbian people who are crazy as all hell decide that they're not fighting for just nationhood, preserving the race, or for the mother-land huh? What happens when they start fighting to save their religion. They talk like europeans, they look like europeans, and they're educated like europeans. If you british morons keep isolating them...some idiot is going to decide its a good idea to strap a bomb to himself and take out some crowd in london. How are you going to defend against people that look like you? Why are you making enemies out of people that should be recruited in the war on terror? I don't understand your mentality any better than you understand mine. But at least I TRY...opposed to your endless bantering.

[Gon4z]

Serbias Constitusion is nothing to kosovo, just like FRANCES Constitution is no intrest to UK

[M4ko]

Cetniks

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Cetnik and James Bond

http://richardkiel.com/spy3.jpg

Cetnik wearing a cowboy hat

http://richardkiel.com/palerider1.jpg

Cetnik as Richard Kiel posing with Adam Sandler

http://richardkiel.com/HappyGilmore.jpg

[rb132]

Serbia is like a child who has had his BB gun taken away from him and refuses to accept it.

[cinoeye]

Serbia is like a child who has had his BB gun taken away from him and refuses to accept it.
That's not good comparation.
It's like a child whos room was taken by neigbour kid, and police came and beat his ass.
And now his neghbour frm Perth street, wich is just south of Euro Street, is blaming kid for whining.
"Why do you cry kid, part of your house is taken, but so what? Neighbours have more kids than you. If you try to take your room back, you'll show the world how bad you are!You deserve it, because you broke their window last year"
Bad kid, bad, bad kid!

[cinoeye]

Serbias Constitusion is nothing to kosovo, just like FRANCES Constitution is no intrest to UK
This comparation is better than one about the BB gun.
KOSOVO is region in Serbia!

UK to France for you is SERBIA to Kosovo?
What kind of ignorant comments are that?

You have no idea what are you talking about!

Kosovo to Serbia is like East Anglia to UK...........
......or Campaigne to France
......Or North East Ohio Cayahoga county to US......

[rb132]

the fact of the matter is,most of kosovo's inhabitants are albanian and dont want to be ruled by a government who tried to wipe them out

[cinoeye]

the fact of the matter is,most of kosovo's inhabitants are albanian and dont want to be ruled by a government who tried to wipe them out

Most Kosovo's inhabitants are Albanians, but they are MINORITY in SERBIA.
KOSOVO is just a REGION, not a REPUBLIC.

We tried to wipe them out?
Hm, maybe some wanted that, altought I was ther to fight rebels, not to force anyone out.
Did you ever checked nombers of killed people there, and what % where Albanains and Serbs?
Did you ever wonder why fights started in 1998?
What will be the number if we realy tried to wipe them out?
250 000 what Klinton said?
Albanians where rebeling in 1968, 1981, having terrorist attacks, seting of bombs.
Their dream Great Albania.
Milosevic was best what happend to them, because he had a bad rep, so they looked like poor under dogs.
Did Serbs had right to claim KRajina in Croatia, jsut because in ww2 1 million Serbs where killed.
No!
World did not allowed that, they even suppotred Croatia to force Serbs out!
Serbian province of KOsovo was never a state or a republic and forever part of Serbian state.
Can ju justify our bad dids, by all those killed by NAZI Albanians dirung the ww2?
It was occupied by the Turks, and part of NAZI GREAT ALBANIA in ww2.
In last 50 years their population increased by emigration from Albania, insane demographic growth(10-12 kids in family!!!!)......
Just look here on the forum they are posting WW2 nazi maps to back up their claims.
You realy do not know that just in Belgrade there is 20 000 Albainas?
And almost every Serb is forced out from province?
Those fiew live in gettos and get killed daily, while houses are demolished, churches burned, cemeteries destroyed......

So they deserve independence just because of the population majority in the region and beacue they where underdogs in conflict?
So international policy is not important?
History is not important?
UN laws are not important?

Serbia is offering them maximum authonomy, only without UN seat and state status.

DO a reaserch about this subject, or batter stay out, too much emotions here to just stop by and talk about BB guns.
No offense, just frendly sugestion:)

[rb132]

Most Kosovo's inhabitants are Albanians, but they are MINORITY in SERBIA.
KOSOVO is just a REGION, not a REPUBLIC.

We tried to wipe them out?
Hm, maybe some wanted that, altought I was ther to fight rebels, not to force anyone out.
Did you ever checked nombers of killed people there, and what % where Albanains and Serbs?
Did you ever wonder why fights started in 1998?
What will be the number if we realy tried to wipe them out?
250 000 what Klinton said?
Albanians where rebeling in 1968, 1981, having terrorist attacks, seting of bombs.
Their dream Great Albania.
Milosevic was best what happend to them, because he had a bad rep, so they looked like poor under dogs.
Did Serbs had right to claim KRajina in Croatia, jsut because in ww2 1 million Serbs where killed.
No!
World did not allowed that, they even suppotred Croatia to force Serbs out!
Serbian province of KOsovo was never a state or a republic and forever part of Serbian state.
Can ju justify our bad dids, by all those killed by NAZI Albanians dirung the ww2?
It was occupied by the Turks, and part of NAZI GREAT ALBANIA in ww2.
In last 50 years their population increased by emigration from Albania, insane demographic growth(10-12 kids in family!!!!)......
Just look here on the forum they are posting WW2 nazi maps to back up their claims.
You realy do not know that just in Belgrade there is 20 000 Albainas?
And almost every Serb is forced out from province?
Those fiew live in gettos and get killed daily, while houses are demolished, churches burned, cemeteries destroyed......

So they deserve independence just because of the population majority in the region and beacue they where underdogs in conflict?
So international policy is not important?
History is not important?
UN laws are not important?

Serbia is offering them maximum authonomy, only without UN seat and state status.

DO a reaserch about this subject, or batter stay out, too much emotions here to just stop by and talk about BB guns.
No offense, just frendly sugestion:)

dude

i never said they deserved independence, but they do deserve protection from the people who tried to ethnically cleanse them and its unlikely they are going to get that if they are under the control of the serbian government, we've seen that from history.

serbs may have been victims in WWII but it doesnt give them the right to kill whoever they want on historical grounds. What the serbs did in Bosnia and Kosovo was no different to what Hitler did.

The fact that the serbs were willing to risk so much over a peice of land for reasons none other than pride demonstrates how proposturous the whole conflict was.

You obviously still think Serbia is the greatest country of the world, and was the victim of NATO atrocoties blah blah blah but hopefully one day you will mature enough to realise how pointless it is sacrifice so many serb and albanian lives for nothing other prestige.

So you can help your country by admitting what was done was wrong and by accepting that its better to handle certain disputes by conversation rather than starting a war you cant finish, or for the sake of your nationilistic pride you can continue to play the victim card and help your country go down in history as a bunch of genocidial maniacs.

[Friendly Fire]

Kosovo Albanians dismiss Serbian constitution
October 30, 2006 11:45 AM
PRISTINA, Serbia-Serbian leaders on Monday hailed the outcome of a referendum restating the country's claim to Kosovo. But the European Union said the results of U.N.-mediated talks alone will decide the province's future status, and Kosovo's independence-minded ethnic Albanian majority dismissed the vote as a futile exercise.
The Serb plebiscite comes at a sensitive time, with Serbs and Kosovo Albanians deadlocked over demands from Belgrade that it be allowed to retain some hold on the province and Kosovo Albanians' insistence on independence.
Talks mediated by the United Nations have failed to resolve the impasse over the province's future, which led to a war between the two sides that ended in June 1999, after NATO bombing forced a withdrawal by troops loyal to Slobodan Milosevic, president of what was then Serbian-dominated Yugoslavia.
Kosovo has been governed since then by the U.N., although ethnic Albanians, who constitute a more than 90-percent majority, have been granted increasing political responsibility. Along with Serbs outside Kosovo, the province's ethnic Serb minority is also vehemently opposed to independence for the province.
The referendum, on a new post-Milosevic era constitution that restates the Serb claim to Kosovo, nearly foundered with barely more than the required 50 percent turnout needed to make it valid.
Still, Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica declared the results "made it clear that we will protect our country's integrity ... and that Kosovo is part of Serbia."
While voter participation was low in Serbia proper, 82.1 percent of those eligible voted among Kosovo's 100,000-strong Serb community, reflecting their fears for the future.
"It's important for us Serbs here to show that Kosovo is Serbia. We can't stay here otherwise, it would be impossible," said Serb Zivorad Kisic, in Kosovo's ethnically divided Kosovska Mitrovica. "This constitution gives us a glimmer of hope."
Oliver Ivanovic, a Kosovo Serb leader, said the new constitution sends a "very important message" to international officials mediating in talks between Belgrade and Pristina.
"Serbia will not easily give up Kosovo, this is the main message," he said. "It tells the international community it must take into account the Serb stand as well, not only the one of (Kosovo) Albanians."
Predictably, Kosovo Albanians differed.
"We consider it very irrelevant," Kosovo Prime Minister Agim Ceku said of the weekend vote in comments to Associated Press Television News.
Xhevat Matoshi, a pharmacist, said he felt pity for the Serbs.
"I don't care" about the referendum's outcome, he said in Pristina, the provincial capital. They need to understand that they lost Kosovo, and accept that we (Albanians) are majority."
And Sherif Bajgora, a 55-year-old retiree, said that Serbs should restrict their voting to "their own country." He added: "Here we have our own country."
The EU downplayed the referendum's significance, with EU spokeswoman Krisztina Nagy saying "the issue of the future status of Kosovo" was being dealt with the U.N.-mediated talks. And she said that Kosovo's ethnic Albanian majority was left off voters lists.
Frank Wisner, the U.S. envoy to the Kosovo talks already said last week that the referendum would not affect the international community's decision on the province's final status.
Meanwhile, the united front shown during the referendum by Serbia's main political parties was cracking Monday as pro-Western reformists and the hardline nationalists disagreed over the country's next vote, planned early elections.
The pro-Western president and his Democratic Party want to hold both parliamentary and presidential elections before year end. Serbian Radical Party leader Tomislav Nikolic said it would be "impossible" to hold elections this year and that the votes should be staggered.
Kosovo, long an autonomous province of Serbia, was stripped of that status 1989 by Milosevic amid a building Serb crackdown on the ethnic Albanian majority. The war that followed nearly a decade later left about 10,000 people dead, most of them ethnic Albanians. About 1 million others fled temporarily to neighboring Albania and Macedonia.
Reporting on what it billed as a compromise solution, the daily newspaper "Express" on Monday published details of a draft U.N. envoy Martti Ahtisaari is expected to present by mid-November. It quoted an unidentified diplomat saying the document stops short of mentioning independence. "But the sovereign competencies given in this document have only one meaning: independence with limited sovereignty," the quote read.


In my opinion this is like voting to say California is paart of the US.Sad but true we needed a vote to acknowledge thar our land is in fact our land.:roll:


Sad day for peace in the Blakans. My sincere albanian excuses for failing to help you in this crisis.

[zg18]

So you can help your country by admitting what was done was wrong and by accepting that its better to handle certain disputes by conversation rather than starting a war you cant finish, or for the sake of your nationilistic pride you can continue to play the victim card and help your country go down in history as a bunch of genocidial maniacs.


Nicely said,that works not just for Serbs but also others.

[127th Knights]

OFF Topic...but does anybody know how many Oganj and Orkan MLRS were produced in the former Yugoslavia? And how many are operational with whom?

[cinoeye]

dude

i never said they deserved independence, but they do deserve protection from the people who tried to ethnically cleanse them and its unlikely they are going to get that if they are under the control of the serbian government, we've seen that from history.

serbs may have been victims in WWII but it doesnt give them the right to kill whoever they want on historical grounds. What the serbs did in Bosnia and Kosovo was no different to what Hitler did.

The fact that the serbs were willing to risk so much over a peice of land for reasons none other than pride demonstrates how proposturous the whole conflict was.

You obviously still think Serbia is the greatest country of the world, and was the victim of NATO atrocoties blah blah blah but hopefully one day you will mature enough to realise how pointless it is sacrifice so many serb and albanian lives for nothing other prestige.

So you can help your country by admitting what was done was wrong and by accepting that its better to handle certain disputes by conversation rather than starting a war you cant finish, or for the sake of your nationilistic pride you can continue to play the victim card and help your country go down in history as a bunch of genocidial maniacs.

Ok, mate, let me tell you some things.
First of all, I do not think that Serbia is the greatest country in the world.
Second, I already admit that Serbs did wsome bad things and that was VERY wrong.
But also I do not want to put up with that BS story how Serbs where the same as NAZI Germans.
Srebrenica happend, and that was so bad,stupid and sad.
But yoo are tring to make things movie simple.
Do you realy do not belive that war in former Yogoslavia was between evil nationalistic Serbs, while Croats, Muslims and Albanians where naive little babies.
And that, even if you finaly find out that 250 000 Serbs where ethnicly clensed form Croatia, that Croats and Muslims did equaly bad things to Serbs and each other. you will again justify that by saying how Serbs deserve it.
What Serbs wanted in Croatia is the same what Albanians want in Kosovo.
Croatia trowed out Serbs from the constitution and made them second grade citizens all under the same iconography from nazi croatia era.
And look what happend with Serbs in Croatia.
Croatia attacked autonomus Region of Krajina, wicth was under the UN protection, and forced out 250 000 out and killimh more than 5 000.
I told you already to do a research about the subject, before you talk about it.

It's true that being a victim at one time, justufy bad things you do today.
But thats exacly what you do with Albanians today.
You have exuse for Albanians ethnicly clensing Serbs today, just because they where suffering before.

You are naive like i little kid if you belive that Albanias want Kosovo just and just because what happend in 1999.
Why did we have a small war in Macedonia in 2001.

You just wait and see what will happend next in Macedonia, Greece and Montenegro.
Do you even have any idea how chaotic Kosovo situation is today and how Kosovo Albanians are extreme and they are huge nationalists?

One more thing, Serbian Gouverment is democratic and Albanians are free to enjoy in their full autonomy.
Europe is uniting, borders are dissepireing, so why would we create second Albanian state in the Balkans?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2635252351166213913&q=burning+kosovo+church

[zg18]

Well,Cinoeye is right 100% in one thing,Kosovo is black hole of Europe,mafia,drugs,human traffic etc.Although international community belives that indepdndaced Kosovo will bring stability in the region it can be that independance Kosovo will be trigger of unstability in Macedonia particulary,south Serbia,Montengro(Montenegrin polica broked a group af Albanian nationalist who planned terrorist attacks in Podgorica,14 of them) ,or even Albania which is my eyes very secular and modern society unlike society of Kosovo Albanians.

[Bullterrier]

We should be carefull with numbers of victims in 1999 war.

SOme Albanian sources are counting in all people killed in Serbia and Montenegro as their victoms.
US president at that time claimed 250 000 killed, mostly Albanians.
Opening article of this tread gives number of 10 000 people.
Some sources calimed tens of thousands.

Now my idea is not to go into body count, because thats cheap, I agree.

But because one of the main Albanian arguments are their sufering and many use that too in this disscusion(like RB123), lets do a reserach.
Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen, giving a speech, said, "The appalling accounts of mass killing in Kosovo and the pictures of refugees fleeing Serb oppression for their lives makes it clear that this is a fight for justice over genocide."
On CBS' Face the Nation Cohen claimed, "We've now seen about 100,000 military-aged men missing...They may have been murdered".
The State Department also gave the highest estimate of dead Albanians. The New York Times reported, "On April 19, the State Department said that up to 500,000 Kosovar Albanians were missing and feared dead.
As far as 2006 UN and Human Rights Watch estimates range between 2500-5000 people. That includes Serbian & Albanian civilians killed by NATO bombs, people killed in firefigts as well as Serbs killed after Serbian Army pulled out of the province.

I mean, lets do a simple comparation.
Bosnian Serbs commited genocide against Srebrenica Muslims and killed 8000 people in less than a week.
I do not denie that some groups on each side did not exicuted innicent or POW, but if Serbian Army realy wanted to exterminate Albanians, numbers were be clearly different.
Kosovo's fighting started in april 1998 and ended June of 1999.
If you realise that Serbia with Albanians had about 10 million people, than number of 5000(even 10 000 if it's correct)is not high for war situations .

In this study, ABA/CEELI and AAAS generate estimates of the number of killings that occurred between March 20 and June 12, 1999, dates that correspond generally with the period of the NATO air campaign. AAAS statisticians estimate that approximately 10,500 Kosovar Albanians were killed during this period. This estimate tracks closely the early numbers suggested by the U.S. Department of State and the ICTY. Furthermore, it is based upon statistical methods that would be defensible in a court of law.
Because the estimate of 10,500 killed was generated from samples of the population and not the entire population itself, a range must be computed that represents a margin of error for the estimate due to the sampling methods and the estimation technique.
They collected retrospective mortality data, including cause of death, for the period from February 1998 to June 1999. Their report concluded that approximately 12,000 Kosovars had died in the conflict
Using a 95 percent confidence interval, AAAS statisticians estimated the number of Kosovar Albanians who were killed during this time period to fall at 7,449 people killed.
Most people where killed in the areas with high levels of UÇK activity,during the fighting between Serbian and UÇK forces.
Since the deployment of KFOR and UNMIK in Kosovo and Metohija on June 10, 1999 to August 9 of this year, Albanian terrorists have carried out 6,535 attacks, resulting in the deaths of 1,201 persons, the wounding of 1,328 persons and the abduction of 1,146 persons, reports the Serbian ministry of internal affairs.
Of the total number of attacks, 6,468 were directed against civilians (5,932 against Serbs and Montenegrins, 201 against Albanians and 335 against members of other ethnicities), 57 against Serbian police (members of the ministry of internal affairs) and 10 against members of the Serbia-Montenegro (formerly Yugoslav) Army.
In these attacks 1,173 civilians, 24 Serbian policemen and four members of the Army were killed, while 15 policemen were wounded. Of the total number of abducted persons, 1,107 are civilians, 29 are members of the Serbian police and 10 are members of the Army.
Among the 1,173 civilians killed by Albanian terrorists, the great majority (991) are Serbs and Montenegrins. The number of Albanians killed is 109 and the number of members of other ethnicities killed is 73.
Out of the total of 1,108 abducted civilians, 960 are Serbs and Montenegrins, 73 are Albanians and 74 are members of other ethnicities. The fate of 846 persons remains unknown; 160 have been killed; 12 managed to escape (nine Serbs and three persons of other ethnicities), and 89 civilians have been released, according to information of the UMNIK Police.

[Hyllus]

KOSOVO ALbanians dismiss Serbian constitution


Well, well... It looks like Kosovar Albanians aren't the alone in this.


Serb referendum has no bearing on Kosovo – U.S. envoy

PRISTINA, Serbia – The United States on Wednesday dismissed Serbian claims that a referendum this weekend on a new constitution could restore Belgrade's lost sovereignty over Kosovo.

Serbia has been rallying voters to back its new constitution as the best way to halt the secession of the country's southern province, where the ethnic Albanian majority expects to clinch independence around the turn of the year.

The draft, which replaces the defunct constitution of late strongman Slobodan Milosevic, declares the United Nations-run territory of Kosovo an integral part of Serbia.

'What happens to you is a Kosovar matter, and an international matter,' Ambassador Frank Wisner, Washington's Kosovo envoy, told reporters in the capital Pristina.

'It is not a matter of Serbian sovereignty, which changed when the U.N. agreed on 1244,' he said.

U.N. Security Council Resolution 1244 was adopted in June 1999 after 78 days of NATO bombing drove out Serb forces accused of atrocities and ethnic cleansing in a two-year war with Kosovo Albanian guerrillas. Ten thousand Albanians died.

The resolution placed Kosovo under U.N. stewardship, and reserved a decision on its future for the Security Council.

Seven years later, U.N. mediator Martti Ahtisaari is due to make his recommendation by the end of 2006. Diplomats predict a form of independence under European Union supervision, amputating land many Serbs consider their religious heartland.

Wisner's language appeared to reflect consensus in the West that returning Kosovo to Serb control is no longer feasible.

'In the end it will be in the interests of both nations to have a strong bilateral relationship,' he said later after meeting Kosovo's Prime Minister Agim Ceku. 'We are going to pursue independence by the – sorry – we are going to pursue final status by the end of the year.'

The U.S diplomat said he counted on Albanians, who make up 90 percent of Kosovo's 2 million people, to allow Serbs in the province to vote in the referendum on Saturday and Sunday.

Around 100,000 Serbs remain in Kosovo, many in enclaves guarded by troops of the 16,000-strong NATO-led peace force.

The proposed constitution, the fruit of rare consensus between government and opposition in Serbia, is expected to pass the referendum, and trigger early elections in December. The U.S. and EU have indicated that elections in December could delay a decision on Kosovo into 2007, for fear of driving voters into the arms of ultranationalists.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20061025-0542-serbia-kosovo.html

[Gon4z]

That's not good comparation. (Comparison)
It's like a child whos (whose) room was taken by neigbour (neighbor) kid, and police came and beat his ass.
And now his neghbour (neighbor) frm (from) Perth street, wich (which) is just south of Euro Street, is blaming (the) kid for whining.
"Why do you cry kid, part of your house is taken, but so what? Neighbours (neighbors) have more kids than you. If you try to take your room back, you'll show the world how bad you are! You deserve it, because you broke their window last year"
Bad kid, bad, bad kid!


I find it fascinating how he comp ears a window with some 40,000+ Albanian lives, which have been taken by Serb Military/paramilitary & police forces during the 98 - 99. 2 year war.... note most of them were civilians, there were around 3,000 KLA fighter killed.


This comparation (Comparison) is better than one about the BB gun.
KOSOVO is region in Serbia!

UK to France for you is SERBIA to Kosovo?
What kind of ignorant comments are (is) that?

You have no idea what are you (are) talking about!

Kosovo to Serbia is like East Anglia to UK...........
......or (OR) Campaigne to France
......Or North East Ohio Cayahoga (Cuyahoga) county to US......


Ok here is an extremely accurate and true comparison that 99% of people on this earth would agree with. Kosovo to Serbia is like Northern Ireland to UK or Guantanamo Bay to the US, land that you have occupied which does not belong to you.
Also I took the liberty of correcting some of you spellings and grammar because its terrible.


Most Kosovo's inhabitants are Albanians, but they are MINORITY in SERBIA.
KOSOVO is just a REGION, not a REPUBLIC.


Yes and before 1918 Kosovo Was an independent state within Albania, until the Serbs occupied it...

We tried to wipe them out?


Yes you did those were the words of your politicians like Milosevic Sheshel Karagic Mladic...etc
Remember what Sheshel said to on national TV "there will be no Albanian in Balkans by the time we are through with them"


I was ther (there) to fight rebels, not to force anyone out.

I doubt you ware there, but even if you were you done a pretty terrible job the death toll for the KLA is around 3,000 confirmed by the Albanians and the UN, whilst the death toll of the civilian Albanians is around 40,000+ & the Serbian military & MUP police death toll is 5,000 which has been confirmed by your government and the death toll of Serbian Para militants is around 7,000, so I guess you were spending more time killing civilians Looting and burning and not fighting the Albanian freedom fighters.

Did you ever checked nombers (numbers) of killed people there, and what % where Albanains (Albanians) and Serbs?

Yes the whole world has seen it and the death toll so far is around 40,000+ also there are some 15,000 - 25,000 others that have disappeared with out a trace some are in prisons in Serbia being subjected to brutal treatment, whilst other have been killed an buried in unmarked mass graves in Serbia. And during the war in 98 - 99 there were around 2,000 dead Serbian civilians, now I think you clever enough to work out the percentage of the ratio Albanian 40,000 to 2,000 Serbs.

Did you ever wonder why fights started in 1998?

Because it was a great time for Serbia to start they had a puppet in government in Albania Fatos Nano which was a Greek gypsy who was put there after Serbia & Greece invested around $10 billion from 1994 - 1996 to bring down Sali Berisha government, with Fatos Nano in power the Albanian would not intervene, also tens why most of Serbia oil and other supplies came through Albania during the war in Kosovo also before & after from 1997 - 2005, also because Serbia stabilized its self after the humiliating defeats in Croatia & Bosnia and was strong enough again to start a nether war with a country that could not defend its self because they had not real weaponry.

What will be the number if we realy (really) tried to wipe them out?

The number would be 0 if you SUCCSEDED in wiping them out but you didn’t, also you did not need to kill them all you made some 700,000 flee only 500,000 of them came back after the war

250 000 what Klinton (Clinton) said?

Where you pulling this information from? Out of you ass!!!
its a rhetorical question no need to answer

Albanians where rebeling in 1968, 1981, having terrorist attacks, seting of bombs.
(Terrible grammar and spelling in this one ill write it for you again)
Albanians were rebelling from 1968 to/and 1981 carrying out terrorist attacks, planting bombs. (This is the correct way)

AgainWhere you pulling this information from? Out of you ass!!!

Hummm.... nop no reports of that, the only terrorist activity was in 1973 when a group of 18 Croatian Para militant commandos from Australia came to Yugoslavia and it took the JNA 7 months to capture them all and kill 17 of them the last of e was caught trying to kill him self because he run out of ammo, of course it took the JNA, Territorial army MUP police...etc around 900 of them all together to get the, after they too over 115 of yours with them.
1981 there were protests in Kosovo where 200 Albanians were killed in those protest, they protested because Serbs took away Kosovo’s territorial army and police and stabilized a Serbian police force which oppressed the Albanian, also another reason was because All the Albanians that were going to the obligated military service were ending up deed claimed by Serbs that they committed suicide and being send home in sealed coffins which the families were not allowed to open but most of them did an they found it strange how they could shoot them self’s in the back with an AK-47...

Their dream Great Albania. (Again wrong grammar)


More like the dream of freedom from the oppressing Serb regime which as occupied them for 80 years, in chase of their dream Greater Serbia.

Milosevic was best what happend (happened) to them, because he had a bad rep, so they looked like poor under dogs. (I mean WoW…)


I can’t understand that pleases try and make more sense next time.

Did Serbs had right to claim KRajina in Croatia, jsut (just) because in ww2 1 million Serbs where killed.
No!


Serbs don’t have right to claimed anything in Balkans because all the land there belongs to the descendants of the Illyrians a.k.a Albanians

World did not allowed that, they even suppotred (supported) Croatia to force Serbs out!


Yes because the Croats were on the right

Serbian province of KOsovo (Kosova) was never a state or a republic and forever part of Serbian state.


Kosovo was and independent state all the way up to 1918 it’s before it was a state with in the Ottoman Empire.

Can ju (take that of) justify our bad dids, (deeds) by all those killed by NAZI Albanians dirung (during) the ww2?


Ummm.... there are not Nazi Albanian I find at very hard to believe since Albania & Kosovo was a safe heaven for Jews its also the land where not a singe Jew died, and the Jews recognize that and so does the rest of the world. unlike the Serbian Cetniks and government who happily handed over their Jews to the German, also what about the 4,000 Albanian partisans veterans and their families who were killed in Tivar Montenegro after they were promised that the Yugoslav was sending them to a vacation a the sea side because they had given their full contribution to communism also may I mention they were all killed within 5 hour period, it took Napoleon 3 days to kill 4.000 Turkish prisoners it took Serbs 5 hours.

It was occupied by the Turks, and part of NAZI GREAT ALBANIA in ww2.

Kosovo was a state with in the Ossman Empire and it was an independent state in WWII


In last 50 years their population increased by emigration from Albania, insane demographic growth(10-12 kids in family!!!!)......

What’s wrong with that Serbian women have 12 kids with 13 different men…
Yes was the communist trend at the time to have more than 5 kids or more, soviets did it and it has only doubled since 1920's, again don’t pull information out of you ass, Albania was an isolated state no one could leave it since 1945 to 1991 and even when they were allowed to come in Kosovo in 1991 they didn’t because the Yugoslav wars began most when to Germany Italy UK...etc

Just look here on the forum they are posting WW2 nazi (Nazi) maps to back up their claims.

I think you are confused abut the time line of history WWII happend in 1939 - 1945 Look closer the date on the maps says 1897 WWII didn’t happen at that time try reading about WWII.

You realy (really) do not know that just in Belgrade there is 20 000 Albainas (Albanians)?

What does that have to do with anything just in Kosovo there are 100,000+ Serbs

And almost every Serb is forced out from province?

200,000 left in 2000 because they wanted because most of them were war criminals and did not wan to risk going tot eh Hague so they fled the people that didn’t hate any association with war crime they remained which is more than 100,000 of them.

Those fiew (few) live in gettos (ghettos) and get killed daily, while houses are demolished, churches burned, cemeteries destroyed......

Hmm... Nop again you pulling information out of your ass and spreading propaganda there are no ghettos in Kosovo its not the Bronx and stop trying you compear your self’s to the Jews (ghettos Jesus where u coming up with this crap)you killed them in WWII remember, Serbs live in the houses of Albanians that have been occupied in the North of Mitrovica because, and the normal Serbs live in their houses around Kosovo with out any threats, the murder rate in Kosovo is lower than in Serbia look it up, nop Serbian houses still stand, its the Albanians that live in tents ever since 1998 because their houses have been burned and wealth stolen, Serbs bitch about 7 of their churches burned in 2004 but they don’t take into consideration the 1.079 Albanian mosques that were burned only in 1999 also may I say that around 45 of those mosques were burned while people were praying inside so killing every one inside, also what about the 470 Albanian catholic churches that have been burned and destroyed, no one touches any cemeteries in Kosovo or churches ever since 2004 all churches are guarded and all other cultural monuments whether they are Serb or Albanian Muslim orthodox of catholic, also most things destroyued duting the war were done by serbs remember when that things was on teh news when serbs dresed up as bosniaks and desecrated a church in bosnia and tryed to pass it out as a propaganda agaisnt te bosniaks, dident work.

So they deserve independence just because of the population majority in the region and beacue (because) they where underdogs in conflict?

No because they have been living in that land for over 20,000 years and you have only been living in Serbia for 1,300 and in Kosovo for around 700 years

So international policy is not important?

Yes is that why you must give back what’s not yours.

History is not important?

History is very important this is just proving my points you should give back the land to the people that have been living there for over 20,000 years.

UN laws are not important?

Yes they are I just find it funny you mention them now I wonder where the UN law where when Serbs were massacring during the war in Kosovo Bosnia & Croatia.

Serbia is offering them maximum authonomy, (autonomy) only without UN seat and state status.

Serbia is offering to occupy the land that they don’t own once again and return back to their plan of ethnic cleansing

DO a (some) reaserch (research) about this subject, or batter (better) stay out, too much emotions here to just stop by and talk about BB guns.
No offense, just friendly (friendly) sugestion (suggestion)

Yep that why I say to you think very hard next time before you post because your Serb Nationalistic Cetnik emotion and view are really disturbing and frankly a bit Retarded, and do some deep research into the history and conflicts of Balkans, research that does not come from a Serbian or Albanian source because its all the same just propaganda bull…
And pls try and do something about your English coz I had to read at you crap over and over again to understand it…





serbs may have been victims in WWII but it doesnt give them the right to kill whoever they want on historical grounds. What the serbs did in Bosnia and Kosovo was no different to what Hitler did.

Serbs were close friends with German all the way of you 1944. From then on they became best friends with the next stronger kid on the block


You obviously still think Serbia is the greatest country of the world, and was the victim of NATO atrocoties blah blah blah but hopefully one day you will mature enough to realise how pointless it is sacrifice so many serb and albanian lives for nothing other prestige.

Serbs will never grow they are the aggressor and the oppressor but love to play the victim, that makes them weak men as a saying goes in Serbian "for a weak dick even his own pubes get in the way"

So you can help your country by admitting what was done was wrong and by accepting that its better to handle certain disputes by conversation rather than starting a war you cant finish, or for the sake of your nationilistic pride you can continue to play the victim card and help your country go down in history as a bunch of genocidial maniacs.

the Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks & Albanians tried talking to them they have been trying to talk to them ever since 1988 but they didn’t want to listen, they wanted Greater Serbia, and they represent them self’s what they truly are, they will never admit anything like they have failed to admit that they handed over 99% of their Jews to the Germans in WWII.






Ancient Europe over 3,000 year ago, i see the illyrians decantes of the Albanians, but no serbia in sight....
http://s15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=4169474



Map of Albania up to 1918...
http://www.kosovo.net/sk/history/kosovo_origins/map10.jpg
http://web.mit.edu/cascon/maps/greater_albania_1878.jpg

And a map fo the origin of the serb people "which have been living in Balkans for some 1,300 years tey settled in balkans some 20,000 years after the Albanians"...



Albanias Partizans...
http://s15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=4179332

[Gon4z]

First of all, I do not think that Serbia is the greatest country in the world.

Yes you do that what all Serbs think, I’am not saying is a bad thing because every one thinks their country is the best but once that peoples tart using that excuse to occupied other small and weaker countries, that when it becomes a wrong thing.

Second, I already admit that Serbs did wsome (some) bad things and that was VERY wrong.

Great to see some Serb finally admit something, but admitting is just he first step.

But also I do not want to put up with that BS story how Serbs where the same as NAZI Germans.

They were even worse, because they learned from them.

Srebrenica happend, (happened) and that was so bad,stupid and sad.

Tell that to your people and what are you going to do to fix that, its gona be pretty hard I mean 9,000+ teenage boys in 24 hours huh...

But yoo (you) are tring (trying) to make things movie simple. v

No his making things come out into truth

[quote=cinoeye;2091097] Do you realy (really) do not belive (believe) that war in former Yogoslavia (Yugoslavia “****ing hell can’t spell his own former country’s mane right) was between evil nationalistic Serbs, while Croats, Muslims and Albanians where naive little babies.

No but Serbs did start the war and all the other country were defending them self’s I mean that’s what its called when a people and a country goes to another country and starts killing their civilians, and when the people that live in that land try to defend them self’s they get called terrorists.

And that, even if you finaly find out that 250 000 Serbs where ethnicly clensed form Croatia, that Croats and Muslims did equaly bad things to Serbs and each other. you will again justify that by saying how Serbs deserve it. (WoW mass terrible grammar let me rewrite it for you)
And even if you finally din out that 250,000 Serbs have been ethnically cleansed from Croatia and that Croats and Muslims committed equal atrocities to Serbs and each other you will still try and justify that by saying that Serbs deserved it.


No one deserves getting killed, but you got what you deserved by getting sanctioned it I was the un I would dent lifted the sanction until Serbia learns to behave and i would not let Serbia have a military any more because they keep miss using their powers, same goes for all the other ex-Yugoslav nation not because you miss used your power but if Serbia ahs no military than just in case one of you decided to attack, so NATO forces should defend Serbia, or your police

What Serbs wanted in Croatia is the same what Albanians want in Kosovo.

No you confused its totally different Albanians want their land back which they have lived on for over 20,000 years.

Croatia trowed (threw) out Serbs from the constitution and made them second grade citizens all under the same iconography from nazi (Nazi) croatia (Croatian) era.
And look what happend (happened) with Serbs in Croatia.

What you started killing Croats, because you wanted to be a part of Serbia.

Croatia attacked autonomus (autonomous) Region of Krajina, wicth (which) was under the UN protection, and forced out 250 000 out and killimh more than 5 000.
I told you already to do a research about the subject, before you talk about it.

No I think you should do some deep research that comes from non Serb source because all the Serbian sources say the same things blah blah blah Serbs are great blah blah blah greater Serbia blah blah blah kill all non Serbs blah blah blah... and so on
Also Krajina was not autonomous you Serbs claimed it to be so, no one recognized it, nut Serbia.

It's true that being a victim at one time, justufy (justify) bad things you do today.

So you are saying because you claimed to be victims in WWII (which I highly doubt I mean you had the **** bombed out of you by Germany at first because you tried to tell the Nazis you can come into Yugoslavia, but after that you were best friend with Germany), gives you the right to kill others in revenge.

But thats (that’s or That is) exacly (exactly) what you do with Albanians today.

No we don’t, they don’t want to do anything bad to Serbians and they haven’t done any thing bad to Serbians, they just want independence from Serbia their politicians are not shouting "By the time we are through with them there wont be any Serbs left" like Serbs polities have been screaming ever since 1997they just want independence and they don’t care if there are still Serbs living there they have no problem with that they just don’t want to be a part of you

You have exuse (excuse) for Albanians ethnicly (ethnically) clensing (cleansing) Serbs today, just because they where suffering before.

Albanians haven’t cleansed any one, even if they wanted to which they don’t, they cant because they don’t have the power to, I told you the 200,000 Serbs that fled most were war criminals which didn’t want to face Hague so they flee of course not all 200,000 them but the other were their family members...etc

You are naive like i (I) little kid if you belive (believe) that Albanias(Albanians) want Kosovo just and just because what happend (Happened) in 1999.
Why did we have a small war in Macedonia in 2001. (?)

Because there Macedonians treated tem like **** as weal, they dent want independence in Macedonia they just wanted equal rights, they won the war in Macedonia because the Macedonian government offered them a truce and gave them almost equal rights, Albanians gave that chance to Serbia back in 1981 give us equal right and a republic and will stay with Serbia but you blew it.

You just wait and see what will happend (happened) next in Macedonia, Greece and Montenegro.
Do you even have any idea how chaotic Kosovo situation is today and how Kosovo Albanians are extreme and they are huge nationalists?


HeHe... not much different from Serbs, and oh i have no doubt that here is going to be another war in Balkans, and it’s defiantly is going to start in Kosovo again and probably some time in 2007.

One more thing, Serbian Gouverment is democratic and Albanians are free to enjoy in their full autonomy.
Europe is uniting, borders are dissepireing, so why would we create second Albanian state in the Balkans?

Ummm... last time i checked Serbia was a dictatorship, Oh you men the same autonomy they enjoyed for the last 80 years, being killed looted, living as second class people, having their couture and history burned, like the Serbs banded Albanian schools, denied Albanians education by the late 80's Albanian were not allowed to go to collage in Kosovo, so they opened private collages with in people homes. Having their history and archive books burned, having their important people executed, and living under the poverty line…etc yep great and full autonomy to Serbian standards to wards non Serbs
Ye if the EU is connecting borders than you should just let Kosovo go since its not your anyways and then you can still consider it as your with in the EU.





http://www.msu.edu/course/pls/461/stein/032399kosovo-serbia_6.jpg
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9907/06/kosovo.warcrimes/link.mosque.jpg

Rracak Masssacar



Rracak massacar


Serb Para-Militants double check if executed civilian is dead...


Rracak Massacar


Destroyed mosque after serbs tanks, delt with this place...
http://www.worldbank.org/html/extdr/kosovo/photos/damagedmosque.jpg



Iv got more you should i go on... hum?

[Gon4z]

We should be carefull with numbers of victims in 1999 war.

SOme Albanian sources are counting in all people killed in Serbia and Montenegro as their victoms.
US president at that time claimed 250 000 killed, mostly Albanians.
Opening article of this tread gives number of 10 000 people.
Some sources calimed tens of thousands.

Now my idea is not to go into body count, because thats cheap, I agree.

But because one of the main Albanian arguments are their sufering and many use that too in this disscusion(like RB123), lets do a reserach.
Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen, giving a speech, said, "The appalling accounts of mass killing in Kosovo and the pictures of refugees fleeing Serb oppression for their lives makes it clear that this is a fight for justice over genocide."
On CBS' Face the Nation Cohen claimed, "We've now seen about 100,000 military-aged men missing...They may have been murdered".
The State Department also gave the highest estimate of dead Albanians. The New York Times reported, "On April 19, the State Department said that up to 500,000 Kosovar Albanians were missing and feared dead.
As far as 2006 UN and Human Rights Watch estimates range between 2500-5000 people. That includes Serbian & Albanian civilians killed by NATO bombs, people killed in firefigts as well as Serbs killed after Serbian Army pulled out of the province.

I mean, lets do a simple comparation.
Bosnian Serbs commited genocide against Srebrenica Muslims and killed 8000 people in less than a week.
I do not denie that some groups on each side did not exicuted innicent or POW, but if Serbian Army realy wanted to exterminate Albanians, numbers were be clearly different.
Kosovo's fighting started in april 1998 and ended June of 1999.
If you realise that Serbia with Albanians had about 10 million people, than number of 5000(even 10 000 if it's correct)is not high for war situations .

In this study, ABA/CEELI and AAAS generate estimates of the number of killings that occurred between March 20 and June 12, 1999, dates that correspond generally with the period of the NATO air campaign. AAAS statisticians estimate that approximately 10,500 Kosovar Albanians were killed during this period. This estimate tracks closely the early numbers suggested by the U.S. Department of State and the ICTY. Furthermore, it is based upon statistical methods that would be defensible in a court of law.
Because the estimate of 10,500 killed was generated from samples of the population and not the entire population itself, a range must be computed that represents a margin of error for the estimate due to the sampling methods and the estimation technique.
They collected retrospective mortality data, including cause of death, for the period from February 1998 to June 1999. Their report concluded that approximately 12,000 Kosovars had died in the conflict
Using a 95 percent confidence interval, AAAS statisticians estimated the number of Kosovar Albanians who were killed during this time period to fall at 7,449 people killed.
Most people where killed in the areas with high levels of UÇK activity,during the fighting between Serbian and UÇK forces.
Since the deployment of KFOR and UNMIK in Kosovo and Metohija on June 10, 1999 to August 9 of this year, Albanian terrorists have carried out 6,535 attacks, resulting in the deaths of 1,201 persons, the wounding of 1,328 persons and the abduction of 1,146 persons, reports the Serbian ministry of internal affairs.
Of the total number of attacks, 6,468 were directed against civilians (5,932 against Serbs and Montenegrins, 201 against Albanians and 335 against members of other ethnicities), 57 against Serbian police (members of the ministry of internal affairs) and 10 against members of the Serbia-Montenegro (formerly Yugoslav) Army.
In these attacks 1,173 civilians, 24 Serbian policemen and four members of the Army were killed, while 15 policemen were wounded. Of the total number of abducted persons, 1,107 are civilians, 29 are members of the Serbian police and 10 are members of the Army.
Among the 1,173 civilians killed by Albanian terrorists, the great majority (991) are Serbs and Montenegrins. The number of Albanians killed is 109 and the number of members of other ethnicities killed is 73.
Out of the total of 1,108 abducted civilians, 960 are Serbs and Montenegrins, 73 are Albanians and 74 are members of other ethnicities. The fate of 846 persons remains unknown; 160 have been killed; 12 managed to escape (nine Serbs and three persons of other ethnicities), and 89 civilians have been released, according to information of the UMNIK Police.

@Bullterrier...
STOP PULLING RABITS OUT OF YOU ASS...