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catdat
04-11-2004, 07:13 PM
A 1935 US Plan for Invasion of Canada

The following is a full-text reproduction of the 1935
plan for a US invasion of Canada prepared at the US Army
War College, G-2 intelligence division, and submitted on
December 18, 1935. This is the most recent declassified
invasion plan available from the US archival sources.
Centered pagination is that of the original document. The
spelling and punctuation of the original document are
reproduced as in the original document, even when in error
by present-day norms.

This document was first identified by Richard Preston
in his 1977 book, "The Defence of the Undefended Border:
Planning for War in North America 1867-1939" (Montreal:
McGill-Queen's University Press.) Preston's reference
citation (p. 277) identified this to be archived at the US
Military History Collection, Carlisle Barracks, Pa., coded
AWC 2-1936-8, G2, no. 19A. It was located by the US
National Archives and supplied on microfilm.

The military planning context of this document is War
Plan Red, which was approved in May 1930 by the Secretary
of War and the Secretary of Navy. War Plan Red and
supporting documents are available from the US National
Archives on microfilm, in the Records of the Joint Board,
1903-1947, Roll 10, J.B. 325, Serial 435 through Serial
641. In War Plan Red, the US Army's theatre of operations
is defined to be: "All CRIMSON territory" (p.80), and the
US Army's mission, in bold type: ULTIMATELY, TO GAIN
COMPLETE CONTROL OF CRIMSON (p. 84). CRIMSON is the
colour code for Canada. In 1934, War Plan Red was amended
to authorize the immediate first use of poison gas against
Canadians and to use strategic bombing to destroy Halifax
if it could not be captured.

In February 1935, the War Department arranged a
Congressional appropriation of $57 million dollars to
build three border air bases for the purposes of
pre-emptive surprise attacks on Canadian air fields. The
base in the Great Lakes region was to be camouflaged as a
civilian airport and was to "be capable of dominating the
industrial heart of Canada, the Ontario Peninsula" from p.
61 of the February 11-13, 1935, hearings of the Committee
on Military Affairs, House of Representatives, on Air
Defense Bases (H.R. 6621 and H.R. 4130). This testimony
was to have been secret but was published by mistake. See
the New York Times, May 1, 1935, p. 1.

In August 1935, the US held its largest peacetime
military manoeuvres in history, with 36,000 troops
converging at the Canadian border south of Ottawa, and
another 15,000 held in reserve in Pennsylvania. The war
game scenario was a US motorized invasion of Canada, with
the defending forces initially repulsing the invading Blue
forces, but eventually to lose "outnumbered and outgunned"
when Blue reinforcements arrive. This according to the
Army's pamphlet "Souvenir of of the First Army Maneuvers:
The Greatest Peace Time Event in US History" (p.2).

The following document is a declassified public
domain document and may be freely reproduced. This should
be of particular interest to people in the Halifx and
Quebec City regions, then considered to be the most
strategic cities in Canada.


http://www.glasnost.de/hist/usa/1935invasion.html

Spearin
04-11-2004, 07:15 PM
Bring it.

*loads C7A1*

:lol:

Merik
04-11-2004, 07:21 PM
Bring it.

*loads C7A1*

:lol:

Oh its already been broughtin! woot

Sir Zach of R.
04-11-2004, 10:17 PM
Yer gonna need more than a C7 to stop an M1A1 Abrams/B-2 Spirit/F-16 Falcon/F-14D Tomcat/Ticonderoga class cruiser. M4.

Resevoir Hogs
04-11-2004, 10:27 PM
*JDAM's Spearin.*

Well that's the CF now on to the QPP

Spearin
04-11-2004, 10:53 PM
Yer gonna need more than a C7 to stop an M1A1 Abrams/B-2 Spirit/F-16 Falcon/F-14D Tomcat/Ticonderoga class cruiser. M4.

Yea, determination ;) I've got plenty of that.

springwheat
04-12-2004, 02:01 AM
Don't forget some maple syrup to go with that C7Eh1 :)

Joshisonfire
04-12-2004, 03:52 PM
I'm too lazy to read, so I'm gonna ask instead. Why invade?

NcDeuce
04-12-2004, 04:03 PM
I'm sure there are all sorts of plans left classified concerning potential invasions or military operations...

Kriz
04-12-2004, 04:05 PM
I'm sure there are all sorts of plans left classified concerning potential invasions or military operations...

Doesn't the USA have plans for invading almost any country on this planet ?

mmackem
04-12-2004, 05:26 PM
I think there were serious concerns in the 1930's about the possibiity of America being attacked by the British Empire because of the British concern about the size of the US Navy, and the fact that Britain was losing it's massive naval supremecy.

If you look at the plan, it is not Canada that they are worried about it is a nation called 'Red' who would use Canada for an attack on the US, that can only be the British Empire.

Obergefreiter
04-12-2004, 05:41 PM
Maybe it is revenge for burning the Capital in the war of 1812. They are just a little slow in getting around to it. :P

catdat
04-12-2004, 05:47 PM
'm too lazy to read, so I'm gonna ask instead. Why invade?
I think it was probably instigated by Anheuser-Busch to eliminate Molson. :)


f you look at the plan, it is not Canada that they are worried about it is a nation called 'Red' who would use Canada for an attack on the US, that can only be the British Empire.

Nope. It's canada alright : In War Plan Red, the US Army's theatre of operations is defined to be: "All CRIMSON territory" (p.80), and the US Army's mission, in bold type: ULTIMATELY, TO GAIN COMPLETE CONTROL OF CRIMSON (p. 84). CRIMSON is the colour code for Canada. In 1934, War Plan Red was amended to authorize the immediate first use of poison gas against Canadians and to use strategic bombing to destroy Halifax if it could not be captured.

Joshisonfire
04-12-2004, 06:40 PM
I think it was probably instigated by Anheuser-Busch to eliminate Molson. :)

I'll drink to that :)

mmackem
04-12-2004, 06:47 PM
In the plan Blue refers to the USA, Crimson refers to Canada, and Red refers to the British Empire.


In the
final analysis, however, critical areas must be largely determined in the
light of Red's probable line of action and Crimson's contribution to that
effort.


In case of war with Red, Halifax would become of prime importance
to Red as a naval base and as a debarkation point for overseas expeditions
in case Blue controlled the St. Lawrence. However, the routes available
for a Red advance from Halifax into northeastern United States or towards
Quebec and Montreal are quite difficult.


he port would be of little use to Crimson or Red, at least in the
early stages of war, provided Blue made any effort to control this area



With the closing of the Panama Canal to Red traffic and the presence of
Blue naval forces based on Honolulu, its

Obviously the 'red traffic' means the Royal Navy


Assuming that Blue controls the St. Lawrence and cuts Crimson's
eastern communication with Red, the areas importance is enhanced, although
it remains a decidedly unsatisfactory outlet. If Red should win control of
the Pacific steamship lanes, the area becomes of first importance to Red.
All factors considered, it must be controlled by Blue.


Red has to be Britain, there is no way that the Canadian Navy (I think they only had something like 4 destroyers in 1935) could win control of the Pacific steamship lanes, only the British could do that.



Interruption of Canada's trans-oceanic telegraph and radio service
will seriously handicap Red-Crimson cooperation.

Obviously the undersea communications between the UK and Canada.


In case Red is denied the use of the Atlantic
or Pacific ports, or both, Churchill will afford an outlet for grain and
meat products from Ontario, Manitoba and Sasketchewan and an inlet for mili-
tary supplies and troops from Europe unless the northern trade route through
Hudson Strait is controlled by the Blue fleet, and this is improbable.





The location of Canada's industry and population along a narrow extent
front facing the northern United States border and her relatively weak
military and naval forces, widely dispersed, will necessitate a defensive
role until Red forces are landed.



The West Coast does not favor overseas operations unless Red controls
the Pacific, and even then is too remote from critical Blue areas.




Red Reinforcements.
_
Various estimates have been made of the size, composition, and time of
placing Red reinforcements in Canada

Probable Enemy Forces in Canada
_______________________________
Empire
Days after Crimson (Less Crimson) Total
M Day men Div. Men Div. Men Divisions
15 25,000 5 --- --- 25,000 5
30 50,000 5 --- --- 50,000 5
60 50,000 5 126,000* 8 176,000 13
90 50,000 5 203,000 13 253,000 13
120 50,000 5 238,000 16 288,000 21
150 50,000 5 255,000 16 305,000 21
180 90,000 6 255,000 16 345,000 22



Crimson cannot successfully defend her territory against the United
States (Blue). She will probably concentrate on the defense of Halifax
and the Montreal-Quebec line in order to hold bases of operation for Red.


Areas of Strategic Importance.
Analysis of the above data and discussion indicates certain areas which
would become of considerable military importance in the event of war with
Red;



Deny Red and Crimson and make available to Blue, the principal
air bases in eastern Canada.




f Halifax is to be captured without the use of large forces and
expenditure of considerable time and effort, it must be accomplished promptly
before Red reinforcements can be landed or Crimson organize for its defense.



An overseas expedition is one of the most uncertain of military
operations, and with the Red fleet on guard in the North Atlantic, with
Red's immediate military objective the retention of a base in eastern

The plan is obviously for the US to fight British forces who are using Canada as a staging base just like 1812.

Vance
04-12-2004, 08:21 PM
Yer gonna need more than a C7 to stop an M1A1 Abrams/B-2 Spirit/F-16 Falcon/F-14D Tomcat/Ticonderoga class cruiser. M4.
Don't forget the HH-60G ;)

Fox2
04-12-2004, 08:46 PM
Imagine how different the world would be today if the US had invaded Canada in 1935?

Resevoir Hogs
04-12-2004, 09:59 PM
Ya Poutine would taste better here :lol:

MEGR
04-13-2004, 03:44 AM
Lets invade Andorra instead.

Ronohfo
04-16-2004, 06:59 PM
Interesting little histroical nugget eh?

For some of us here in Canada there would be some arguable merits to "Operation Canadian Freedom" and it has alot to to with the way our politicians treat the members of our proud CF.

We may only have C7s and determination - its that determination that makes it all work though!

Come over the line anyway - the Molson Canadian is cold and we can swap lies.

Mark_Aspen
04-18-2004, 09:27 AM
Given the then sympathies of Edward VIII towards Germany, could it be seen as a way of forstalling a potential German handhold in N. America?

Fox2
04-18-2004, 01:10 PM
History would definitely be very different. World War 2 probably would not have transpired as it did. English and Canada would be our enemy, so we probably would not fight in Europe. Japan might have still attacked us, maybe even a bit earlier than '41. The US would not have been in Europe, probably, during the Cold War. Would the Cold War have even happened? Would Europe all be Soviet?

And the most important question, would Krispy Kreme have taken over Tim Horton's? :D

memphiz
04-18-2004, 03:44 PM
oh i think we could have taken the states in '35, the amount of people volunteering would skyrocket (like WW1,2). and Canada is to large of a country for the US to occupy, and once winter kicks in we Canadians would bring out our trusty hockey sticks and beat the frozen yanks.. p-)


interesting document though