New info about XM25 Weapon and Ammo:

[HELEX]

http://www.atk.com/ProductSheets/Category/SoldierSystems/2012709.htm#P-4_0


http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/xm_25.gif

http://www.atk.com/ProductSheets/Category/Graphics/SoldierSystems/2012709-1.jpg


Thermobaric
Flechette
Training
High Explosive Air Bursting
Non-Lethal

So the Soldier carrying the weapon will use Flechette in self defense I think.

[Uninen]

25mm Thermobaric rounds?

:lol:

[cavtroop4]

i thought they cancelled the project.

[FallenAngel]

AFAIK they didn't cancel the project per say. They split the OICW up into two parts since the electronics do not exist (yet) to make the weapon within the perscribed size and weight. The seperate components (XM8 and XM25) are being developed on their own time-table to try and salvage some time and money already invested in the project.

Eventually, when both are developed thoroughly, they will be re-combined into a neo-OICW.

At least...that's what I read a while ago.

[Tony Williams]

Very interesting that flechette ammo has been developed. It does mean that recombining the 5.56mm and 25mm elements is that much less likely.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[wholagun]

can someone briefly explain what each round does? Thermobic? Flechette? etc etc

[Tony Williams]

Flechette is, I presume, actually a multiple flechette loading. I would expect to see two or three dozen finned darts packed together in the shell. When the shell leaves the muzzle, it falls apart leaving the flechettes to carry on, spreading out in a narrow cone. It's very much like a shotgun load only the flechettes travel further and penetrate far more deeply. Very effective at 100 or possibly even 200m, depending on various factors.

Thermobaric shells go through two stages when arriving at the target; at first, a small explosive charge opens up the shell so its contents are spread to form a fine dust or aerosol. Then a second charge detonates the resulting mixture, to much greater effect than a normal HE charge. Fuel/air explosives (FAE) are a type of thermobaric (although opinions vary on the definitions...)

Airburst shells are timed to detonate directly over the target, showering it with high-velocity fragments. To achieve this requires a very sophisticated fire control system which also sets the fuze as the shell leaves the muzzle.

Tony Williams

[Uninen]

Yes,

And hi!

:)

I just wondered that can so small Thermobaric round be effective.. as the RPO-A i think is the smallest to this date and its 80 something mm in diameter / calibre..

;)

And i think that the Flechette rounds are for "close in defence" of the operator..

And like you said it will have multiple "darts" in that round as this isnt AAI Advanced Combat Rifle or anything alike..

(that is Flechette shooting rifle..)

[Retard]

I saw a video of a 40mm Thermobaric round. The video may have even been posted on this site. It showed the round being fired through a window into a small room (plywood structure build on a range).

http://www.rdecom.army.mil/rdemagazine/200308/itf_multipurpose_cartridges.html
http://www.rdecom.army.mil/rdemagazine/200308/images/itf_new_cartridge.jpg

[Herrmannek]

I think it wasn't...Do you have link for it?

[Retard]

Never found the video. If you search the net for "Thermobaric grenade," there are tons of articles on it. The Russians & Bulgarians seem to be big into thermobaric weapons -mainly RPG's.

[Herrmannek]

Never found the video. If you search the net for "Thermobaric grenade," there are tons of articles on it. The Russians & Bulgarians seem to be big into thermobaric weapons -mainly RPG's.
I know "theory", I just wanted to see how this works :)

[b00n]

Isnt this the implosion-air-suck-thingy-grenade? :D

[Herrmannek]

Isnt this the implosion-air-suck-thingy-grenade? :D
It not "suck" air its just spends lot of it making that way biger an longer BUM....

[Shadow]

A thermobaric bomb does suck air.
The bomb penetrates your cave spreads a flammable compound in the tunnel system a second explosion ignits the mixture which burns the oxygen in the cave now everyone will suffocate if he or she is still alive.

[Shadow]

A thermobaric bomb does suck air.
The bomb penetrates your cave spreads a flammable compound in the tunnel system a second explosion ignits the mixture which burns the oxygen in the cave now everyone will suffocate if he or she is still alive.

A HE with a negativ xygenniveau should also work.
Just like nitrocellulose in bullets! The nitrocellulose doesn't have enough O2 to burn everything thats involved in the explosion. The unburned mixture leaves the barrel and "sucks" the xygen from the air and burns thats what you call a muzzle flash.

Damn wrong button.Sry.

[Herrmannek]

A thermobaric bomb does suck air.
The bomb penetrates your cave spreads a flammable compound in the tunnel system a second explosion ignits the mixture which burns the oxygen in the cave now everyone will suffocate if he or she is still alive.

A HE with a negativ xygenniveau should also work.
Just like nitrocellulose in bullets! The nitrocellulose doesn't have enough O2 to burn everything thats involved in the explosion. The unburned mixture leaves the barrel and "sucks" the xygen from the air and burns thats what you call a muzzle flash.

Damn wrong button.Sry.

Sucks is just wrong word :) it spends it...

[Uninen]

Foreign Military Studies Office Publications - A 'Crushing' Victory Fuel-Air Explosives and Grozny 2000! (http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/fmsopubs/issues/fuelair/fuelair.htm)

Surviving a thermobaric strike

Units are far more concentrated in a city fight than when deployed in the countryside. Therefore, a thermobaric strike on a unit in an urban fight is likely to be very bloody. Those personnel caught directly under the aerosol cloud will die from the flame or overpressure. For those on the periphery of the strike, the injuries can be severe. Burns, broken bones, contusions from flying debris and blindness may result. Further, the crushing injuries from the overpressure can create air embolism within blood vessels, concussions, multiple internal hemorrhages in the liver and spleen, collapsed lungs, rupture of the eardrums and displacement of the eyes from their sockets. Displacement and tearing of internal organs can lead to peritonitus. Most military medics are well trained in stopping the bleeding, protecting the wound and treating for shock. Many of the injuries caused by thermobaric weapons are internal and may not be initially noticed by the medic or doctor.

Medical units will have to practice triage in treating thermobaric casualties. Thermobaric detonations will create three "zones" of injury. The first is the central zone where most will die immediately from blast overpressure and thermal injuries. Casualties in the second zone will survive the initial blast and burns, but will have extensive burns and those internal injuries listed above. From a medical stand point, some second zone casualties might be able to be saved with extensive care and sufficient resources, but, in reality, between the resources required and the low salvage rate, little can be done beyond providing morphine and other pain relief. In the third zone, patients will have had some protection from flying debris, but may have experienced some blast effect. Kevlar armor may protect soldiers from lethal missile injuries, but not from the blast effect. Surprisingly, many of the patients with internal injuries will survive and do reasonably well providing that acute hemorrhaging is stopped, perforated bowels are sealed off and long-term care provided. Although eardrum examination is not part of a typical field medic/corpsmen exam, looking at the eardrums can tell a lot. If there is fluid or blood behind the eardrums, it is a very good clinical predictor of late pulmonary complications from blast injuries. Most of the injuries are caused from the pressure wave passing a tissue/fluid-air interface. That's why the bulk of the thermobaric injuries are pulmonary or gut (air filled viscous organs).

Injuries to the extremities and eyes will be common in the third zone. Simply using goggles, safety glasses or protective face shields can prevent many of these eye injuries. Burns will also be usual in the third zone. Burn care training and treatment will need special emphasis when preparing for combat where thermobaric weapons may be employed.

Conclusion

The Russian use of tactical, ground-launched thermobaric weapons has taken the wraps off of an effective weapons type that is currently being purchased or developed by a variety of countries. Thermobaric weapons will be present on future battlefields. They will present particular problems for defending units or units bunched up on complex terrain such as forest, jungle or cities. Medical units will face problems treating mass burn and crushing injuries. Technology offers no quick counters, so unit survival may depend on tactics and drills, improved counter-battery procedures and use of camouflage and deception measures.

:petting:

[EchoSierra2]

Isnt this the implosion-air-suck-thingy-grenade? :D

Gunney showed it on mail call. I beleive it can be done in two ways. 1 being programmed by the weapon. say you want it to set off at 25 yards. andthe other is by a visual. in other words shoot the projectile and visually set it off when you want to. again one by the weapon. I believe it was a Marine that shot it into a bunker thru a window and he demo'ed how it could be done both ways. It was AWESOME! OOORAH!

[Catch22]

I don't want to be too futuristic but air-fuel/thermobaric ammo introduced on a massive scale leads me to a conclussion that we will either see fully isolating body armour suits or most of the warfare will be done by unmanned vehicles operated from distance. Lets say within next 50 years? :roll:

[Herrmannek]

I don't want to be too futuristic but air-fuel/thermobaric ammo introduced on a massive scale leads me to a conclussion that we will either see fully isolating body armour suits or most of the warfare will be done by unmanned vehicles operated from distance. Lets say within next 50 years? :roll:

Agree, when I get my personal clima I can join army right away :)

[Teh Little Space Monkeh]

It's prolly the new grenade launcher to replace the M320

[king_nothing100]

The 320 isn't even in service yet, is it?

[FallenAngel]

I think he meant M203.

And the OICW has always been intended to replace the M16/203 combo. This is the greanade portion of it.