Best MBT - photos?!

[SerbPVO]

I nominate the Yugoslav/Serbian & Montenegrin M-84/A, developed in the 80s and still one of the best tanks in the world.

M-84
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-1.jpg
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-2.jpg

M-84A
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-3.jpg

M-84s were massively used in Ex-YU conflicts
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-4.jpg

M-84ABs, tanks of the Kuwaiti Armed Forces
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-5.jpg

Slovenian M-84s with new targeting and other equipment
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-6.jpg

Croatian M-84A4 "Sniper"
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-7.jpg

Ex-JNA
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-9.jpg

M-84s in Kosovo
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-10.jpg

M-84AB in Kuwait
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-12.jpg

Model of "Vihor" , Serbia's new tank development(status :?) based in M-84
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-13.jpg

Model of Croatian "Degman", very advanced version of M-84 - about to enter serial production, if not already
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-14.jpg

http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/degman.jpg

Yugoimport's (Serbia's military export state company) project of M-84 modernization

http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-17.jpg

[hank]

I nominate the Yugoslav/Serbian & Montenegrin M-84/A, developed in the 80s and still one of the best tanks in the world.

Dude, a t-72 is a t-72 whether its made in Russia, the Ukraine, or Montenegro. Cool tank about 20 years ago.

hank

[RuSoKaR]

M-84 is a woot tank

but too bad we don't know too much about it, can you tell us in which country they are in service.

[SerbPVO]

All former Yugoslav countries, Kuwait, Iraq(captured from Kuwait), etc.

Its interesting...the entire Kuwaiti military is Serbian-equipped.
It was funny seeing Serbian uniforms(well, on Kuwaiti soldiers) on CNN, in the first few days of Gulf War II.

[mustamato]

CV90120. Try to beat that power to weight ratio.

http://www.mainbattletanks.czweb.org/Tanky/cv90120.jpg

http://www.mainbattletanks.czweb.org/Tanky/cv90120b.jpg

http://www.mainbattletanks.czweb.org/Tanky/cv90120_b.jpg

http://www.mainbattletanks.czweb.org/Tanky/cv90120t.jpg
During testing in Malaysia

[shuravee]

It was funny seeing Serbian uniforms(well, on Kuwaiti soldiers) on CNN, in the first few days of Gulf War II.

So what's happens with their Serbian uniforms at next days of GW2 ? :)

[SerbPVO]

Here's some more M-84/A shots:

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/user/bojan/armor/tanks/m-84a/m-84a_01.jpg

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/user/bojan/armor/tanks/m-84a/m-84a_02.jpg

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/user/bojan/armor/tanks/m-84a/m-84a_04.jpg

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/user/bojan/armor/tanks/m-84a/m-84a_05.jpg

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/user/bojan/armor/tanks/m-84a/m-84a_06.jpg

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/user/bojan/armor/tanks/m-84a/m-84a_08.jpg

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/user/bojan/armor/tanks/m-84a/m-84a_12.jpg

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/user/bojan/armor/tanks/m-84a/m-84a_21.jpg

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/user/bojan/armor/tanks/m-84a/m-84a_23.jpg

[Marmot1]

CV90120. Try to beat that power to weight ratio.
During testing in Malaysia
But it was Polish PT-91 that won this contract in Malaysia :lol: woot

[Uninen]

Now what does that tell us about Malaysians? Me thinks they not very bright..

:cantbeli:

[Brozozo]

CV90120. Try to beat that power to weight ratio.
During testing in Malaysia
But it was Polish PT-91 that won this contract in Malaysia :lol: woot

Polska Power!!!

[Yard Ape]

What, is this the best tank by mid 1970's standards thread? I vote Chieftan or Leopard.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/chieftan01.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/leopard-c1_12.jpg

But, that same decade they were both out classed by the tank which continues to top the list (although in an improved version), the Leopard II.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/leopard-2a4-pic1.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/leopard-2a5-kl19.jpg

[caspermeister]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid107/p58c42b2bb8b5ed7f492b66c186f23ac5/f95b6bc2.jpg.orig.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid112/p6be291c12714d0a8aaa6bce64c0120e6/f907a9d4.jpg.orig.jpg

[deutschersoldat]

Of course i nominate the german Leopard 2a6 !!


http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/mbt/mbt.leopard2a6-big.jpg

[Zentrum Jagdkampf]

Of course i nominate the german Leopard 2a6 !!


http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/mbt/mbt.leopard2a6-big.jpg

Me too!!!

[Thor]

I nominate the Yugoslav/Serbian & Montenegrin M-84/A, developed in the 80s and still one of the best tanks in the world.


No, it's probably one of the worst tanks in the worlds. With all the rest of the T72-clones.

[Jurgen]

I'm nominating the M1A2 too...

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3326642.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=F68184B33E5CB2761C8ABBDA164ED10A

OOps, wrong photo...

http://arms.host.sk/tanks/m1a2abrams.jpg

:lol:

[perdurabo]

you know that meany parts for M84 where build in Poland by Bumar? :-)
also few other tanks in world have "made in Poland" etiqetes :lol: :lol:
basicly normal production of Bumar is much more than 100(+around 500APC) a year and in crisis times it can be extended to large numbers

[FinnishMF]

Of course i nominate the german Leopard 2a6 !!


http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/mbt/mbt.leopard2a6-big.jpg

Me too!!!
And me !

[Javehn]

Ah , never mind . **** that ...

Here is the best tank , kids . Enjoy .

http://www.3drt.com/3dm/tank-machine/tank-01-4.jpg

Enbellievable , grow up for cry out loud . If you just wanted to post pics of M84 , name the thread "M84" . And it's defenetly and most defenetly not the "best" tank in the world .
I bellieve i speak for many people , when i say enough with "the best " and "who is bigger" threads .

[-Max2-]

Its interesting...the entire Kuwaiti military is Serbian-equipped.
It was funny seeing Serbian uniforms(well, on Kuwaiti soldiers) on CNN, in the first few days of Gulf War II.

Not really. Most of their equipments are American, French and British-made...

[Marmot1]

Now what does that tell us about Malaysians? Me thinks they not very bright..

:cantbeli:
They are bright.. PT91 is quite cheap, they didn't had tanks before so it is great ad on to their inventory also all they neighbour have worse equipment so with PT-91 they have best tank in this part of the world... the best what their oponents have in region is basic T-72 without night fighting capability.... and without ERA, which is sepecially useful in this part of asia where it is easier to fing RPG than a gas station...


derived from T-72 MBT through modernization, replacing and upgrading of its systems. They were designed to be a highly reliable systems having superior firepower, improved crew protection and impressive mobility.
They still keep outstanding, optimally small silhouette to minimize the ballistic surface.
The design concept creates very wide modernization field, as it can be done with everyone T-72 family MBT pratcically, almost without major changes in its shell.




MOBILITY
To keep the required horsepower and speed, PT-91 and T-72M1Z are equipped with turbocharged 850 hp diesel engine. With upgraded transmission they can attain a maximum road speed of 60 km/h. However, for low speed maneuvering, the low gear provides a continuous speed up to 7 km/h. They still enjoy excellent cross country ability.
Their design creates the fording ability of water obstacles up to 5 meters depth using fording kit, however the water obstacle of 1,2 meters depth can be crossed without any preparation.
FIRE POWER
The PT-91 MBT is equpped with the Fire Control System consisting of Gunner Station. It basis on modernized TPDK-1 sight for day channel and optionally passive PCN-A sight or thermal imagine sight, which create night fighting capability. The fire solutions are calculated by the ballistic, digital computer which processes mixed set of information generated by set of sensors and input manually by the gunner.
The T-72M1Z MBT dual axis stabilized Fire Control System, with both Gunner and Commander stations is equipped with day and night vision capabilities, which, in conjunction with electro-hydraulic gun stabilization system, makes it capable of acquiring a target accurately within a minimum time
Gunner Station consists of 2 axis stabilized sight platform with thermal imaging and daylight visual imaging subsystems, laser range finder which permits the gunner to detect, identify, acquire and track a target during day and night combat conditions.COMMANDER STATION
Commander Station consists of panoramic sight mounted on the turred roof which provides day vision and night imaging through 2 axis stabilized head mirror assembly with 360 panoramic viewing independent of turret orientation. Combined with the GS, the CS provides the hunter-killer capability which allows the crew of T-72M1Z to acquire rapidly and destroy multiple targets. Additionally system allows commander to override gunners decisions.
The digital, ballistic computer provides solutions for 6 types of ammunitions, by processing information generated by up-to-date set of sensors or input by the gunner or commander.
SURVIVABILITY
The crew survivability was improved by the adoption of very effective ERA in major areas, which offers better protection against chemical energy projectiles.
With up-to-date Automatic Fire Suppression System any fire in the Crea Compartment is automatically detected by IR Detectors and suppressed by Halon 1301. The Engine Comparment is protected by separate, also automatically operating system which bases on Temperature Sensing Firewire and suppresses any fire with Halon 1211.
Newly added Laser Warning System provides information about laser beams of sights range finders and missiles guiding systems and reacts automatically firing smoke grenades from two, 6 launchers banks. The system can be overridden by the commander who can fire these grenades manually in personally selected sequences or use backing, manual system also consisting of two, 6 launchers banks.

More info in english:
http://www.bumar.gliwice.pl/zps/index.php?menu_num=menu3_&link=10&ch=2&menu_lan=en
http://www.bumar.gliwice.pl/grafa/pt_11.jpghttp://www.bumar.gliwice.pl/grafa/pt_08.jpg
Maybe not the best but definitelly much better than T-72M1

[CannibalSquirel]

Of course i nominate the german Leopard 2a6 !!


http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/mbt/mbt.leopard2a6-big.jpg

Me too!!!
And me !

And one more vote here... ;)

[Hrvoje]

Croatian "Degman"

http://www.ddsv.hr/degman_eng.html

http://www.ddsv.hr/pictures/Degman_01_v.jpg

http://www.ddsv.hr/pictures/Degman_03_v.jpg

http://www.ddsv.hr/pictures/Degman_06_v.jpg

[deutschersoldat]

2a6 leos

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop113.jpg

http://www.tank-data.de/leop2a6.jpg


and a leo2a4

http://www.ifrance.com/ArmyReco/europe/Allemagne/vehicules_lourds/Leopard-2/Leopard2_GE_03.jpg

[mmackem]

What, is this the best tank by mid 1970's standards thread? I vote Chieftan or Leopard.

Yeah the British Chieftan with the Stillbrew armour upgrade was a fricking monster.

Uparmoured British Challenger 2.

http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/images/ops/challenger_basrah.jpg
http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/images/ops/cr2_breach.jpg

[Javehn]

Oh , common . Just name the post "My country tank" , and that's it , i wouldn't be pissed as hell ..

And you must be kiddin with those tanks . Don't force me to bring the real heavy **** woot ;)

[SerbPVO]

Morons & idiots.
Trigger happy little uneducated kids.

That barely sums up the population of this forum.

Kuwait actually held a contest to choose the countire's new tank - both M-84, Abrams and Leopard took part. M-84 won by far, because the other two couldn't operate in desert terrain for longer periods.

Would have loved to see what would have happend to those rustbuckets if they were ever faced with M-84 in Kosovo:)

But , too bad NATO chickened out of the ground invasion it had initially planned.

[FinnishMF]

Morons & idiots.
Trigger happy little uneducated kids.

That barely sums up the population of this forum.

Kuwait actually held a contest to choose the countire's new tank - both M-84, Abrams and Leopard took part. M-84 won by far, because the other two couldn't operate in desert terrain for longer periods.

Would have loved to see what would have happend to those rustbuckets if they were ever faced with M-84 in Kosovo:)

But , too bad NATO chickened out of the ground invasion it had initially planned.
And soon you can read some expert comments like
"f*** you ! Abram is the best tank ever ! It's invincible !!!"
"Albanian (what ever!) would have been crushed easily!"

[hank]

This might be a slight hijack - if so I aoplogize in advance. Has anyone here wondered what the calibre lenght was of the M256 that the M1A1 and M1A2 have? I have wondered and I looked around a little and could not find it. Last night I finally found a US DoD document that discussed the problem. Unfortunately I forgot to save it but it seem like the M256 caliber length was either 39 or 40. That then lead me to wonder if we had any plans to use the new longer L55 that the Germans are putting in the Leo 2A6.

Sure enough I found a memo that outlined the US plan to incorporate the new L55 120 mm in future M1A2's and even some M1A1's that get updated. The new L55 M256 wil get the US designation M256E1 and should have begun to get fielded in 2004.

HAs anybody heard of this new tank gun getting fileded in the US?

Incidentally the new L55 is justa new barrel - everything else, even the ammo is the same.

I had wondered about that and maybe I am the only one. So, in the very near future, at least in theory, the M1A1/2 will have the new L55 gun by Rheinmetall that the newest Leos have.

hank

[Shadow NX]

My god... always this stupid my tank is better than yours game... :roll:
Btw a superb tank alone wins no war...

A very capable tank is this one:

T-84 "OPLOT"

http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/t84-21l.jpg
http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/t84-nl.jpg
http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/drw-t84l.gif
http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/t84-18l.jpg
http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/t84-16l.jpg

The "OPLOT" is based on the T-80UD

http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/t80ud-01l.jpg

[-Max2-]

Kuwait actually held a contest to choose the countire's new tank - both M-84, Abrams and Leopard took part. M-84 won by far, because the other two couldn't operate in desert terrain for longer periods.



Kuwait also use M1A2 Abrams, dumbass...


Would have loved to see what would have happend to those rustbuckets if they were ever faced with M-84 in Kosovo:)


Good joke. Even our old (upgraded) Leopard 1A5s who were deployed with the Belgian KFOR contingent were superior to any Serbian tanks, including M84s, according to my infos... :lol:

Then against an Abrams or Leopard 2...

[Haiw]

Kuwait actually held a contest to choose the countire's new tank - both M-84, Abrams and Leopard took part. M-84 won by far, because the other two couldn't operate in desert terrain for longer periods.



Kuwait also use M1A2 Abrams, dumbass...
:lol:
Yup...218 of 'em.

[FDF_Hemppis]

C'mon now! It's pretty pointless to debate if the M-84 or the M1A1/2 would have won. I mean as soon as one Serbian tank shows himself...

Say hello to my little friend:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/longbowhellfire1.jpg

AGM-114 Hellfire

Or:

AGM-65 Maverick
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-65-990324-f-9085b-001-s.jpg

Death from above! That's the harsh reality IMO...

As for the best MBT, my vote goes for the Leo.

[MaDuce]

I love "my country has the best hardware threads"

[mustamato]

I mean as soon as one Serbian tank shows himself...

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-65-990324-f-9085b-001-s.jpg

http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/m84-8.jpg
Serbian M-84A :P

[FDF_Hemppis]

Mustamato:

Yeah, that pretty much sums up what I'm trying to say here... Whether not that is an M-84, that I do not know...

[MVSpartan117]

Are they developing a M1A3 by any chance?

[FDF_Hemppis]

I love "my country has the best hardware threads"

I don't. Finland doesn't really rate that high on those :D
But we do have the best AK-based weapon...

*running to bomb shelter before the Russians see this post*

[MaDuce]

Tanks might become obsolete in the not so distand future has high powered light wieght anti tank weapons are developed...

[StukaJr]

I don't. Finland doesn't really rate that high on those :D
But we do have the best AK-based weapon...

*running to bomb shelter before the Russians see this post*

No... we'll just assume you were joking

[MaDuce]

http://world.guns.ru/assault/an94-1.jpg
Best AK type if you would even call it that.

[FDF_Hemppis]

I don't. Finland doesn't really rate that high on those :D
But we do have the best AK-based weapon...

*running to bomb shelter before the Russians see this post*

No... we'll just assume you were joking

No, I wasn't. But yeah, I have to admit, that we don't have the best.
Why? Because, no weapon can be the one and only best.

So, the correct words would be: we have one of the very best AK-variants. And no one can deny that.

[mustamato]

I don't. Finland doesn't really rate that high on those :D
But we do have the best AK-based weapon...

*running to bomb shelter before the Russians see this post*

No... we'll just assume you were joking

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v151/Hemppis/K05/TST2005_2.jpg
According to Jane´s, the best "Kalashnikov-type" assault rifle around

[Marmot1]

Edit:Added Photos and link


20.10.1999 T-80U and T-90 Protection Trials
On October 20, 1999 extensive trials of T-80U and T-90 protection from various types of threats were conducted at TsNIIO 643a Testing Grounds. The tests involved firing large amounts of ordnance (including several versions of RPG ATGL, light and heavy ATGMs, and APFSDS rounds) at frontal projections of T-80U and T-90 MBTs both protected with Kontakt-V ERA and stripped of it.

T-80U and T-90 MBTs were represented by 3 vehicles each, one with Kontakt-V ERA, one with removed explosive packages and one reserve vehicle. For the ERA part of trials, knocked-out ERA packages were replaced after each shot.

One more T-80U MBT was used for special trials that focused on testing of Shtora-1 EOCMDAS.

The following weapons were used:

Infantry ATGLs (fired at a distance of 40m)
RPG-7 (using advanced 105mm grenade PG-7VR with a tandem warhead, pen. 650mm RHA)
RPG-26 (disposable launcher, pen. >500mm RHA)
RPG-29 (advanced 105mm launcher, pen. 750mm RHA)
ATGMs (fired at a distance of 600m)
Malyutka-2 (pen. >600mm RHA)
Metis (pen. 460mm RHA)
Konkurs (pen. 650mm RHA)
Kornet (pen. >850mm RHA)
APFSDS (fired from T-80U MBT at a distance of 1,500m, the most likely round is 3BM42)
Each weapon was fired 5 times at each target, for a total of 20 shots per weapon. The total number of shots fired during the trials thus exceeded 150.
The trials yielded the following outcome:

ATGLs
T-90: RPG-29 produced a total of 3 penetrations.
No other RPG rounds could penetrate even the stripped target.
T-80U: RPG-29 penetrated 3 times with ERA, all 5 times without ERA.
Of all other grenades, one PG-7VR penetrated the stripped target.
ATGMs
T-90: No ATGMs could penetrate the ERA-equipped target. One Kornet ATGM penetrated the stripped target.
T-80U: 2 Kornet ATGMs penetrated the ERA-equipped target, all 5 penetrated the stripped target.
No other ATGMs could penetrate.
APFSDS
T-90: ERA-equipped target could not be penetrated. Furthermore, after firing the crew entered the vehicle, activated it and was able to execute the firing sequence.
Without ERA, one round penetrated.
T-80U (data available only for stripped target): One round almost penetrated (3mm hole in the inner lining, no visible equipment damage); two penetrated to 1/2 thickness; one missed the target completely; one hit the gun.
The following pictures show the locations of impacts by ATGL RPG-29 (in red) and ATGM Kornet (in black) against ERA-equipped vehicles. Which of these hits penetrated was not disclosed.





Shtora-1 Trials
10 Kornet ATGMs with removed warheads were fired at a tank with a crew. 4 ATGMs hit the tank, the other 6 deviated to the left of the target in the middle of the flight.


Conclusions (VF)
RPG-29 proved to be by far the most potent weapon among those used. As powerful as heavy ATGM Kornet, it appeared to assure the frontal penetration of T-80U even for the squad-level firepower. Even though T-90 fared better, it is still not immune to it. Considering sufficient proliferation of this weapon and the fact that this is still a fairly light infantry weapon, it is the most dangerous adversary of modern Russian MBTs, and is a very disturbing development.
Original reports that ATGM Kornet performance is severely degraded by ERA due to its peculiar order of internal components proved true as the ATGM with at least 100mm higher penetrating potential was not superior to a much lighter RPG-29.
Report of Shtora-1 EOCMDAS trials is confusing. Being laser-guided, ATGM Kornet should not suffer any interference from Shtora as it only affects IR SACLOS ATGMs. Furthermore, ATGMs can only deviate to the left if the marker is set to the left of both emitters, which is hardly likely. It is possible, however unlikely, that it was caused by a sloppy work of removal the warhead which e.g. could cause a gyro cofusion.

http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/TRIALS/T-80U.jpg
http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/TRIALS/T-90.jpg

http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/TRIALS/19991020.html

[JMooch]

"Its interesting...the entire Kuwaiti military is Serbian-equipped."


Not true.

For a short time, I was a liasion SNCO with the Kuwaiti 28th BDE. the 28th and I think the 35th were entirely equipped with Desert Warrior ICAV's (Warriors with Bradley turrets and tandem TOW launchers) and M1A2's. Oddly enough they had Scuds as well.

S/F
Mooch

[mustamato]

Thanks Marmot1, I can only say "wtf", I thought that the tandem warhead
to the RPG´s were more capable than that. But I guess it depends on where
it hits of course, as we have seen from Iraq even old PG-7´s can damage a Abrams.

[MaDuce]

AN-94 Abakan= The besk akish gun.

[mustamato]

AN-94 Abakan= The besk akish gun.

And what is Kalashnikov with Abakan? (AK = Avtomat Kalashnikov)

[MaDuce]

Yes the Avtomat Nikonova is not exactly in the AK family as it operates differenty and is not that easy to take apart and clean. But it's two round burst alows the almost simultaneous fireing off two bullets whitch makes them land in roughlyu the same place. I was suggested to replace the AK-74 in 93 but has been held up due to finacial reasons.

[Rantanplan]

Nice toys you posted here friends but give me an Army of this pals here and I will conquer the universe bwahahahahahahahaha. *evil laughter*

http://www.pghifi.demon.co.uk/dalek6388/remembrance%20of%20the%20daleks/rem6.JPG

http://www.pghifi.demon.co.uk/dalek6388/remembrance%20of%20the%20daleks/rem8.jpg

http://www.pghifi.demon.co.uk/dalek6388/remembrance%20of%20the%20daleks/rem1.jpg

http://www.pghifi.demon.co.uk/dalek6388/remembrance%20of%20the%20daleks/rem4.jpg

[Jack Mehoff]

Tank is only one factor of the game. Experienced, well trained and combat tested crew should also take into a big consideration.

[koster]

Yes the Avtomat Nikonova is not exactly in the AK family as it operates differenty and is not that easy to take apart and clean. But it's two round burst alows the almost simultaneous fireing off two bullets whitch makes them land in roughlyu the same place. I was suggested to replace the AK-74 in 93 but has been held up due to finacial reasons.
It was suggested to replace AKM/AK-74 in the late '70's !!!
And it has not replaced it because there are better models out there.

[mmackem]

This might be a slight hijack - if so I aoplogize in advance. Has anyone here wondered what the calibre lenght was of the M256 that the M1A1 and M1A2 have? I have wondered and I looked around a little and could not find it. Last night I finally found a US DoD document that discussed the problem. Unfortunately I forgot to save it but it seem like the M256 caliber length was either 39 or 40. That then lead me to wonder if we had any plans to use the new longer L55 that the Germans are putting in the Leo 2A6.

Sure enough I found a memo that outlined the US plan to incorporate the new L55 120 mm in future M1A2's and even some M1A1's that get updated. The new L55 M256 wil get the US designation M256E1 and should have begun to get fielded in 2004.

HAs anybody heard of this new tank gun getting fileded in the US?

Incidentally the new L55 is justa new barrel - everything else, even the ammo is the same.

I had wondered about that and maybe I am the only one. So, in the very near future, at least in theory, the M1A1/2 will have the new L55 gun by Rheinmetall that the newest Leos have.

hank

The M256 is 44 calibres in length, and is also a German Rheinmetall gun, it goes by the German designation L44, which has now been replaced on the latest Leo 2's with the 55 calibre L55.

The British Challenger 2 also uses a 55 calibre gun, although a rifled one not smoothbore like the Rheinmetall weapons.

It would not be at all suprising if the US did upgrade to the more powerfull 55 calibre gun which obviously has a greater range and penetration.

While they are at it and now that Crusador has been cancelled they could do with replacing the M109 SPH and it's 39 calibre gun, with a 52 calibre system like most western nations are fielding now, again it gives more range.

This photo shows the L44(M256) 44 calibre weapon:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leop1.jpg

This shows the L55 55 calibre weapon, it is visibly longer.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/images/leopard2tank-14.jpg

[StukaJr]

According to Jane´s, the best "Kalashnikov-type" assault rifle around

That's Jane's circa which year? I've looked up mine (1996) and it says "It is probably the best Kalashnikov clone ever made" - omitting words like probably and best clone still doesn't make it best "Kalashnikov-type" assault rifle around. Also, the comparrison points out the wooden furniture replaced with plastic so it still compares it to the AK74, which makes that quote 2 decades old at least.

[Operation Ivy]

Tanks might become obsolete in the not so distand future has high powered light wieght anti tank weapons are developed...

shut your mouth :D

About the M1A3 i havent found anything about it, but that doesnt mean its on the drawing board ;)

[Yard Ape]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/leopard2-002.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/leopard-2a5.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/leopard2-001.jpg

[foxtrot023]

Nice toys you posted here friends but give me an Army of this pals here and I will conquer the universe bwahahahahahahahaha. *evil laughter*

http://www.pghifi.demon.co.uk/dalek6388/remembrance%20of%20the%20daleks/rem6.JPG

http://www.pghifi.demon.co.uk/dalek6388/remembrance%20of%20the%20daleks/rem8.jpg

http://www.pghifi.demon.co.uk/dalek6388/remembrance%20of%20the%20daleks/rem1.jpg

http://www.pghifi.demon.co.uk/dalek6388/remembrance%20of%20the%20daleks/rem4.jpg

Dude, those look like they are useful only to unclog toilets....

[Truthsayer]

Dude, those look like they are useful only to unclog toilets....

Hehe, they are from an TV-show. I'm gonna let you guess wich one yourself.


Ps. It's a classic. Ds.

[talib_killa34]

"Doctor Who"?

[Truthsayer]

Yepp - extra credit if you know their name. ;)

[talib_killa34]

Errr...umm....

The....something....


Zentradi???

No, that's "Robotech"....


The "Collective"?

Hell, I don't know..they showed that show on PBS a long time ago when I was a kid! Even then I barely watched.... ;)

[Truthsayer]

The Daleks. =)

Btw, seems like they are beginning to shot an movie...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056751/


Status: Pre-production
Comments: Casting has begun. Filming begins in the spring of 2004.
Status Updated: 22 March 2004


Sorry for the amazing off-topic. :)

[talib_killa34]

Ok thanks! :D

[obd]

hate to break it to you RSK but you really are in dreamland if you think the Yudoslav M82 can even come close to competing with an M1 Abrams...

Uh, well the Iraqi T-72 is the same model that the M82 is based on and in Gulf War 1 the Abrams was undefeated and killed hundreds of T-72's for ZERO loss to a T-72.....

I think in Gulf War 1 not a single Abrams crewmember was killed due to hostil fire although I think some were injured in a role over at high speeds and some were injured by mines but still....COME ON MAN!! Nobody here is gonna agree that the puny assed Yugoslav M82, which is just a knock-off of a Russian T72, can even compete with the M1. Its not even in the same class really... I would like to see the T72 go up against a Sheridan..now thats a more even fight......although I think I would rather be in a T72 than a Sheridan although Marine Sheridans did kill T-72's 100% of time in engagements but I think that was due to US Tankers being the best in the world by far.......

[pfclee]

K1A1 Main Battle Tank for Republic of Korea Armed Forces.

http://linux.ntcast.com:8000/~fosho/gallery/albums/album02/k1a1.jpg

http://linux.ntcast.com:8000/~fosho/gallery/albums/album02/k1a1_bprint.jpg

http://linux.ntcast.com:8000/~fosho/gallery/albums/album02/k1a1_panorama_sight.jpg

Day/Night 360 degree Panorama Sight developed by Korean Defense Agency.

http://linux.ntcast.com:8000/~fosho/gallery/albums/album02/k1a1_port.jpg

Approximately 300s of them in service.

Approximately 1000 of them (105mm version) in service.

[catdat]

I thought this was about best tank photos not best tank?

oh well. In it's day, this was a tank no one wanted to face one on one - probably didn't want to do it four on one either.

http://tanxheaven.com/fedcol/jagdtiger/5.JPG

obd states:

but I think that was due to US Tankers being the best in the world by far

It's to bad we don't compete against the Israelis so I can't comment about them but the Germans have dominated CATT ever since the Canadian Army offered up the trophy. We've only been competetive since we started using the Abrams. I'm glad their on our side.

catdat

[Javehn]

It's to bad we don't compete against the Israelis so I can't comment about them but the Germans have dominated CATT ever since the Canadian Army offered up the trophy. We've only been competetive since we started using the Abrams. I'm glad their on our side.


Ok . I can ;) . You guys , are suck big time woot .
Exersize from 4 years ago speaking here :lol: . To be fair , that was on Golan hights , and the Abramses fell appart after a day of driving there . And you guys can benchpress way more then our tankers .

[seventy6er]

It's to bad we don't compete against the Israelis so I can't comment about them but the Germans have dominated CATT ever since the Canadian Army offered up the trophy. We've only been competetive since we started using the Abrams. I'm glad their on our side.


That's what I posted some months ago. Do you have any results of CATT and can post them? I "lost" my link... :(

[bloddyaxe]

What about this tank
http://www.aviation.ru/Su/25/Su-25.2.jpg
It can blow up a column of M1A2s in a single pass, provided there is a good driver/gunner(pilot) onboard.

[Backis]

I thought this was about best tank photos not best tank?

oh well. In it's day, this was a tank no one wanted to face one on one - probably didn't want to do it four on one either.

http://tanxheaven.com/fedcol/jagdtiger/5.JPG


That's a Jagdtiger tank destroyer (Jagdpanzer), not a tank at all. ;)

[StukaJr]

As for JagdTiger - JagdPanther was by far better Tank Destroyer

http://www.waffenhq.de/panzer/jagdpanther-01.jpg

In one instance, a British advance was halted by 3 Jagdpanthers that suddenly attacked them head on. As many as 47 british tanks were destroyed in 10 minute battle - 2 Jagdpanthers had their tracks blown off and immobilized, however no penetration or other damage has been achieved. The 2 tanks were abandoned, the remaining panzer and the crews withdrew...

The Swan Song... Too late and too few, but goes to show for the quality of the tank.

[dugdug]

K1A1 Main Battle Tank for Republic of Korea Armed Forces.

http://linux.ntcast.com:8000/~fosho/gallery/albums/album02/k1a1.jpg





purple?

btw, i vote for the M1 because i always see them in action.

[Haiw]

As for JagdTiger - JagdPanther was by far better Tank Destroyer

http://www.waffenhq.de/panzer/jagdpanther-01.jpg

In one instance, a British advance was halted by 3 Jagdpanthers that suddenly attacked them head on. As many as 47 british tanks were destroyed in 10 minute battle - 2 Jagdpanthers had their tracks blown off and immobilized, however no penetration or other damage has been achieved. The 2 tanks were abandoned, the remaining panzer and the crews withdrew...

The Swan Song... Too late and too few, but goes to show for the quality of the tank.
Yup... the JagdPanther was way more reliable. Sure, the JagdTiger was a good vehicle against tanks...as long as it didn't break down before you reached the battlefield. Besides, you almost had to drive behind it with a fuel truck.

[Operation Ivy]

Proably posted these somewhere on here, but heres some pics woot
Abrams
http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/OpIvy/Tank102.jpg

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/OpIvy/Tank87.jpg


http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/OpIvy/Tank93.jpg

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/OpIvy/Tank80.jpg

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/OpIvy/Tank25.jpg

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/OpIvy/Tank27.jpg

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/OpIvy/Tank23.jpg
Chally2
http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/OpIvy/Tank81.jpg

Merk4
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/merkava4_x4.jpg

http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/merkava/merkavamk2(8).jpg

http://www.veteranen.info/~cedarsouthlebanon/israel/merkava2c.jpg

Leopard 2
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Leo2A5_01.jpg

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/leo2a5_05.jpg

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Stridsvagn_122.jpg

[cazorp]

When it comes to deciding which tank'h the Best available on the market, there's a thousand figures to compare, for example reliability, spare-parts etc.

But, to make a almost impossible question quite easy, based on the following figures - Which one is the most versatile?

* Armour/Defence/Suvivability
* Armament/Offence capacity/Range/Sight's
* Mobility/ground clearance etc.
* Range/ Fuel capacity/multi-fuel ability/cost per mile/ etc.

Well, which one's the best? LeoII, Abrams, Challenger, some else?

Question 2:

Sweden has got a improved version of the Leo II Strv 122, how's it compared to the latest german produced Leo's, which I guess is the L2A6(?)

[Operation Ivy]

Well, which one's the best? LeoII, Abrams, Challenger, some else

Been asked a million times buddy :D everybody just chooses the tank that there country uses, and u forgot the LeClerc and Merkava ;)

[caspermeister]

What about this tank
http://www.aviation.ru/Su/25/Su-25.2.jpg
It can blow up a column of M1A2s in a single pass, provided there is a good driver/gunner(pilot) onboard.

Dodge this then....
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/linebacker/images/linebacker2.jpg
and this.....
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/avenger/images/avenger4.jpg
and if you still survive, this will put you down fly boy
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/stinger_02.jpg

[cazorp]

Well, which one's the best? LeoII, Abrams, Challenger, some else

Been asked a million times buddy :D everybody just chooses the tank that there country uses, and u forgot the LeClerc and Merkava ;)

Ok, then we have the answer Strv. 122 no question about it.. :D




http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/leopard/leopard2a5(5).jpg

Migthy!

[Obergefreiter]

What about this tank
http://www.aviation.ru/Su/25/Su-25.2.jpg
It can blow up a column of M1A2s in a single pass, provided there is a good driver/gunner(pilot) onboard.

Dodge this then....
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/linebacker/images/linebacker2.jpg
and this.....
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/avenger/images/avenger4.jpg
and if you still survive, this will put you down fly boy
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/stinger_02.jpg

rofl rofl rofl rofl

[foxtrot023]

Well, which one's the best? LeoII, Abrams, Challenger, some else

Been asked a million times buddy :D everybody just chooses the tank that there country uses, and u forgot the LeClerc and Merkava ;)

Ok, then we have the answer Strv. 122 no question about it.. :D




http://www.bulba.eu.org/mil/free/leopard/leopard2a5(5).jpg

Migthy!

Well, you are forgeting the newest Leo2 family member...the Leo2E which is the heaviest and most armored of all Leo2s

Regards

[Mudcat]

Anybody know if any Challenger II's were lost/severly damaged in Iraq?

[Operation Ivy]

I know at least 1 Chally2 was lost due to friendly fire, there might have been two

[Fiber]

I for one like the sound of the CV9030's 5 round burst.

[gilgoul]

AArrrrffff
at most a souped up T72, with the armour of the T72, wich means, give me a javelin and oooppss, where`s the tank?

[gilgoul]

Oh , common . Just name the post "My country tank" , and that's it , i wouldn't be pissed as hell ..

And you must be kiddin with those tanks . Don't force me to bring the real heavy **** woot ;)


LOL

like the one that starts with a M, ends with a A, and reaches it`s fiurth generation?

[koster]

No offence, but pretty much any MBT can be taken out with a javelin..

[gilgoul]

No offence, but pretty much any MBT can be taken out with a javelin..

I have to admit, my bad, I apologize, so let`s take a Milan :D

[RuSoKaR]

What about this tank
http://www.aviation.ru/Su/25/Su-25.2.jpg
It can blow up a column of M1A2s in a single pass, provided there is a good driver/gunner(pilot) onboard.

Dodge this then....
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/linebacker/images/linebacker2.jpg
and this.....
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/avenger/images/avenger4.jpg
and if you still survive, this will put you down fly boy
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/stinger_02.jpg

:cantbeli:
Do you know what this is?
http://www.yetao.net/tpk/tp/newweb/200111/sn/20011114/su39tail.JPG
Su-39 was the first fixed wing aircraft to ever mount active laser protection system..
This protects it against IR missiles.. and is better than flares as you cant run out of supply..
woot thanks Uni :P