Report: Race Gap In U.S. Persists

[ed316]

Report: Race Gap In U.S. Persists

WASHINGTON, Nov. 14, 2006 (AP) Decades after the civil rights movement, racial disparities in income, education and home ownership persist and, by some measurements, are growing in the United States.

White households had incomes that were two-thirds higher than blacks and 40 percent higher than Hispanics last year, according to data released Tuesday by the U.S. Census Bureau (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/14/national/www.census.gov).

White adults were also more likely than black and Hispanic adults to have college degrees and to own their own homes. They were less likely to live in poverty.

"Race is so associated with class in the United States that it may not be direct discrimination, but it still matters indirectly," said Dalton Conley, a sociology professor at New York University and the author of "Being Black, Living in the Red."

"It doesn't mean it's any less powerful just because it's indirect," he said.

Home ownership grew among white middle-class families after World War II when access to credit and government programs made buying houses affordable. Black families were largely left out because of discrimination, and the effects are still being felt today, said Lance Freeman, assistant professor of urban planning at Columbia University and author of "There Goes the 'Hood."

Home ownership creates wealth, which enables families to live in good neighborhoods with good schools. It also helps families finance college, which leads to better-paying jobs, perpetuating the cycle, Freeman said.

"If your parents own their own home they can leave it to you when they pass on or they can use the equity to help you with a down payment on yours," Freeman said.

Three-fourths of white households owned their homes in 2005, compared with 46 percent of black households and 48 percent of Hispanic households. Home ownership is near an all-time high in the United States, but racial gaps have increased in the past 25 years.

Black families have also been hurt by the decline of manufacturing jobs — the same jobs that helped propel many white families into the middle class after World War II, said Hilary Shelton, director of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's Washington office.

Among Hispanics, education, income and home ownership gaps are exacerbated by recent Latin American immigrants. Hispanic immigrants have, on average, lower incomes and education levels than people born in the United States. About 40 percent of U.S. Hispanics are immigrants.

Asian Americans, on average, have higher incomes and education levels than whites. However, they have higher poverty rates and lower home ownership rates.

The Census Bureau released 2005 racial data on incomes, education levels, home ownership rates and poverty rates Tuesday. The data are from the American Community Survey, the bureau's new annual survey of 3 million households nationwide. The Associated Press compared the figures with census data from 1980, 1990 and 2000.

Among the findings:

Black adults have narrowed the gap with white adults in earning high school diplomas, but the gap has widened for college degrees. Thirty percent of white adults had at least a bachelor's degree in 2005, while 17 percent of black adults and 12 percent of Hispanic adults had degrees.

Forty-nine percent of Asian Americans had at least a bachelor's degree in 2005.

The median income for white households was $50,622 last year. It was $30,939 for black households, $36,278 for Hispanic households and $60,367 for Asian households.

Median income for black households has stayed about 60 percent of the income for white households since 1980. In dollar terms, the gap has grown from $18,123 to $19,683.

Hispanic households made about 76 percent as much as white households in 1980. In 2005, it was 72 percent.

The gap in poverty rates has narrowed since 1980, but it remains substantial. The poverty rate for white residents was 8.3 percent on 2005. It was 24.9 percent for black residents, 21.8 percent for Hispanic residents and 11.1 percent for Asian residents.

Thomas Shapiro, professor of law and social policy at Brandeis University, said the "easiest answer" to narrowing racial gaps is to promote home ownership, which would help minority families accumulate wealth.

"The wealth gap is not just a story of merit and achievement, it's also a story of the historical legacy of race in the United Sates," said Shapiro, author of "The Hidden Cost of Being African American."

Shelton, of the NAACP, called for more government funding for preschool programs, improving public schools and making college more affordable.

"Income should not be a significant determining factor whether someone should have an opportunity to go to college," Shelton said.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/14/national/main2179601.shtml

[micronazi]

People better watch out. The white man is going to keep you from getting a home or an education. He's out to get you. He can't rally with burning crosses and big oak trees anymore. So now he has to do it covertly, by dening your home loan and preventing you from getting into college. He's taking your jobs and forcing you into taking social security and forces you to live in ghettos, while he lives in what should be your home in modern day suburbia.

Rise up! Fight! Fight this remnant of white oppression and gain your freedom once more!

</sarcasm>

Regards,
Micronazi

[Dronetek]

Goddamn white people!!:cantbeli:

[LaoSexMachine]

Nothing suprising here. I see it first hand driving around Houston.

BTW I aint afraid of white people maybe because I'm Asian.

[camerashy]

Regards,
Micronazi
So what does your name imply exactly? I'm guessing you're shorter than 5ft 2inches?

[micronazi]

So what does your name imply exactly? I'm guessing you're shorter than 5ft 2inches?

No, it's a joke from high school and only using Microsoft products and not being very good with Linux. Sadly, I can never think of a better handle to use.

Regards,
Micronazi

[ViktorNavorski]

The median income for white households was $50,622 last year. It was $30,939 for black households, $36,278 for Hispanic households and $60,367 for Asian households.Woot! Just goes to show, spend more time getting your **** together than blaming the white man for all your woes can get you somewhere decent.

[LaoSexMachine]

Woot! Just goes to show, spend more time getting your **** together than blaming the white man for all your woes can get you somewhere decent.

x2 and the sad thing is their "leaders" are nothing but a bunch of racial ambulance chasers.

[sir-chimp]

x2 and the sad thing is their "leaders" are nothing but a bunch of racial ambulance chasers.

hey it beats working for a living

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Why is is acceptable to pigeonhole races by economics by not by values? It's not like they're any more un-knowable. Speaking in terms exactly as broad as those in the economics study, one can easily say that one group puts as much value behind academic achievement as another one does behind "being cool". So when each group is given $5000, one takes another computer class, while the other buys new wheels. The economic stats follow along as a result of those decisions. No amount of state-sanctioned theft or discrimination is going to change that.

[sir-chimp]

Why is is acceptable to pigeonhole races by economics by not by values? It's not like they're any more un-knowable. Speaking in terms exactly as broad as those in the economics study, one can easily say that one group puts as much value behind academic achievement as another one does behind "being cool". So when each group is given $5000, one takes another computer class, while the other buys new wheels. The economic stats follow along as a result of those decisions. No amount of state-sanctioned theft or discrimination is going to change that.

you hate monger

[gaijinsamurai]

I don't think I've ever agreed with you 100%, 2Sheds, until now.
When I was a parole officer, I saw so many African-American men who had fathered 4+ kids and didn't give a damn about them. They had no interest whatsoever in turning their lives around, and actually seemed proud to be on parole or probation. Getting over on "the man" seemed to be their hobby.
I saw the same kind of attitude in college, where African-American students would spend more time bitching than studying, and take for granted the student aid they received.
Don't get me wrong: I saw plenty of exceptions, but this trend was definitely dominant in Blacks, more than any other race.

[SBL]

There's a good buck in the victim racket.


I have to agree with 2Sheds and Gaijin, American Black Culture has been stunted by this self-serving, woe-is-me attitude, IMHO.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I've always tried to be a monger of some sort.

My point is that it bugs me that we are so quick to line the races up by rank when it comes time to hand out the money. We don't even think about it. We do a study, we see who's doing poorly, and the confiscation of money from one group to the other begins. Yet we will not allow ourselves to line up the races when it comes to values - which IMHO are the root of the problem. For me, you either do both or neither. Otherwise it's a never-ending scam.

[sir-chimp]

I've always tried to be a monger of some sort.

My point is that it bugs me that we are so quick to line the races up by rank when it comes time to hand out the money. We don't even think about it. We do a study, we see who's doing poorly, and the confiscation of money from one group to the other begins. Yet we will not allow ourselves to line up the races when it comes to values - which IMHO are the root of the problem. For me, you either do both or neither. Otherwise it's a never-ending scam.


but but that might lead to making "judgments" on the failings inside of certain sub-cultures and we all know how evil things like judgments are

I mean just the other day I was going to stick my ***** in a light socket and decided it was a bad idea - then I realized hey that was a "judgment" so I had to do it just to prove to myself I was an open minded person

[SBL]

I've always tried to be a monger of some sort.

My point is that it bugs me that we are so quick to line the races up by rank when it comes time to hand out the money. We don't even think about it. We do a study, we see who's doing poorly, and the confiscation of money from one group to the other begins. Yet we will not allow ourselves to line up the races when it comes to values - which IMHO are the root of the problem. For me, you either do both or neither. Otherwise it's a never-ending scam.


I'm allowed to twist your words however I want. This is America!

[Macs.]

http://www.youtube.com/v/kJckT_dvbok

[gaijinsamurai]

It is hard for me to have any sympathy for anyone who doesn't value hard work and education, no matter what their race.
Most of you probably know that I'm a teacher in Japan. Previously, I taught in South Korea.
In both places, kids are in school, taking extra classes to get ahead (at their parents' personal expense, usually in English, math, or science), or are studying, 12+ hours per day.
Sure, they like their sports, manga, playstations, and iPods, but school comes first.
Kids respect their parents, and don't question their advice or rules.
I'm not surprised at all that Asians tend to earn more money, and I don't begrudge them for it.

[Smersh]

here is something interesting though:


The median income for white households was $50,622 last year. It was $30,939 for black households, $36,278 for Hispanic households and $60,367 for Asian households.
Woot! Just goes to show, spend more time getting your **** together than blaming the white man for all your woes can get you somewhere decent.

"Asian Americans, on average, have higher incomes and education levels than whites. However, they have higher poverty rates and lower home ownership rates."

[gaijinsamurai]

Mike Meyers looks embarrassed to be standing next to that idiot.

[sir-chimp]

the always classic

http://liveu-01.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/thumbnails/2006/11/14/1163553210.jpg (http://www.flurl.com/item/Exterminate_the_whites_u_203235) <<<<click it

It was so nice to see some one giving the "black power" salute at Nancy Pelosi's victory speech

[tyovan]

Cynthia McKinney?

[AZRON]

As mentioned earlier in this thread it's partly the responsibility of black pols playing the race victim card and whitey owes you.

Bush has had a very generous program to help minorities get into affordable housing. But you don't hear much about it.
Bush's aim is to increase the minority representation in home ownership hence the middle class.
What his program does is help minorities with good jobs buy homes by helping with down payments they don't have. Basically a money grant on down payments.

However the old black politicians want to keep the blacks poor and subdued so only they can claim " I'm helping you."
Of course while they are helping you they are getting extremely rich doing so. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are experts at the game as are many others . Maxine Waters is also possibly very corrupt and Shirley Lee out of Texas .

You have black leaders such as Michael Steele , Bill Cosby , Juan Williams and Larry Elders promoting individual responsibility and middle-class success But black Steele lost to white Cardon as he didn't play the whitey owes us card but one of self improvement.
Too bad , until the old 60s style black leaders leave the scene this will continue.

[sir-chimp]

You have black leaders such as Michael Steele , Bill Cosby , Juan Williams and Larry Elders promoting individual responsibility and middle-class success But black Steele lost to white Cardon as he didn't play the whitey owes us card but one of self improvement.
Too bad , until the old 60s style black leaders leave the scene this will continue.

it amazing to see the racial slander they have to endure for daring to speak out from the "whitey owes you" mentality

[jmatucd]

I will not rest until the streets run red with the blood of the white man!

race relations are pretty sad in america

[Lt. James Anderson]

White man keeps them down ... white man gots all the moneys ... racist ... I confirm. ;)

[Kilgor]

They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: Why you ain't, Where you is, What he drive, Where he stay, Where he work, Who you be... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around. The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids. $500 sneakers for what? And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was 2? Where were you when he was 12? Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol? And where is the father? Or who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something? Or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?

What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa. With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' — or men or whatever you call them now. We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.

We cannot blame the white people any longer.

cosby

[kinsella]

white kid grows up hearing nothing but how he is racist and is the fault of all the things wrong with other races, that kid will become that.

black kid grows up hearing that the white people are the reason that he is in the conditon he is in and that white people owe him, he will begin to believe it.

black people need to take a step back and realize that things are not like they were when white people owned slaves, owned all the land, and could not even imagine a black person in the government, much less the Sect. of State, or on the Joint Chief of Staff. stop telling your children that white people are bad.

white people need to realize that not all black people are just looking for a way on to welfare or just waiting to commit some crime against some white person. stop telling your children that black people are bad.

too bad it is easier to write this thought then it is to have it put into action.

one can dream though.

[kinsella]

cosby

spoken like a true leader..........we can all learn from this............regardless of color

[Red]

Some of you are full of ****.

Guess what,even very afluent blacks still face discrimination and racism.Wonder how i know?I am one of them.Like me,a lot of black folks choose to ignore it and move on but it is there. It is funny how people dismiss race as an issue while it still is on all sides.While there are feck ups in the black community but there are screw ups everywhere but the legacy of racism even for rich black folks still remains.Say what you want but i and many other professional blacks like me see it all the time.

[Litti]

People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something? Or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?

I´m sorry but this is just pure BS. I used to have my cap backwards, used a skateboard and did all that sort of stuff when I was younger, 12 years old or so. Didnt affect me a thing and now I´m studying in a university. Oh and yes, I dont believe piercing has anything to do with your grades in school.

Honestly it makes me annoyed when someone believes it is some sort of problematic behaviour when a young boy decides to wear an ear ring. :roll:

The whole issue in US is rather complex but what can you expect when the chances are far from equal when all people are considered. Universities cost a lot of money, it shouldnt be like that. I believe education should be free and the one with the highest motivation should get the chance, not a person who only uses mom´s money as a ticket.

Every year you would have exams in universities and ONLY people with a high enough score would qualify. Others who didnt bother to read can work for a year and then try again unless they want to sell hamburgers for the rest of their lives.

[ViktorNavorski]

Some of you are full of ****.

Guess what,even very afluent blacks still face discrimination and racism.Wonder how i know?I am one of them.Like me,a lot of black folks choose to ignore it and move on but it is there. It is funny how people dismiss race as an issue while it still is on all sides.While there are feck ups in the black community but there are screw ups everywhere but the legacy of racism even for rich black folks still remains.Say what you want but i and many other professional blacks like me see it all the time.Thats the point, isn't it, enshrine it as a "legacy," whatever happen, the white man always out to get us.

[Red]

I´m sorry but this is just pure BS. I used to have my cap backwards, used a skateboard and did all that sort of stuff when I was younger, 12 years old or so. Didnt affect me a thing and now I´m studying in a university. Oh and yes, I dont believe piercing has anything to do with your grades in school.

Honestly it makes me annoyed when someone believes that it is some sort of problematic behaviour when a young boy decides to wear an ear ring. :roll:

It's funny you mentione that. There is this black VP at Microsoft that has on ear ring,corn rows,wears baggy jeans,and sneakers but is one of the most brilliant men i have ever known.He used to work on Artificial Intelligence for the government and has his own private tech company.He is very very rich but he is an ordinary guy.So you could look at him and call him a thug or you could look at his Benz and call him a drug pusher but people never know that you don't judge a book by its cover all the time.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Honestly it makes me annoyed when someone believes that it is some sort of problematic behaviour when a young boy decides to wear an ear ring. :roll:

Makes me think that boy likes boys (an earing is very feminine, you know) ... a couple of days ago a friend of mine said that means somebody took it up the azz ... Don't if it's true and don't wanna know ...

[Red]

Thats the point, isn't it, enshrine it as a "legacy," whatever happen, the white man always out to get us.

Your joking right? When people still experience the same crap then the legacy remains.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Your joking right? When people still experience the same crap then the legacy remains.

I think it's BS too ... but I'm white ...

This black guy that used to work with me used to cry racism all the time. There was a couple of people that didn't like him (I don't know why since I'm correct with everybody who's OK with me) and wanted to get him fired. They used to go and tell the manager every little thing he did wrong (he was new so most of the time it was an honest mistake). Two of them were black ... I know that wasn't because they were racist but because they were idiots and would do the same to me (if I let them, but I don't play like that ). And two of them were black, BTW. But, he was convinced they were racist ...

[Red]

I think it's BS too ... but I'm white ...

Well there you go.

[Geezah]

the always classic

http://liveu-01.vo.llnwd.net/flurl/thumbnails/2006/11/14/1163553210.jpg (http://www.flurl.com/item/Exterminate_the_whites_u_203235) <<<<click it

It was so nice to see some one giving the "black power" salute at Nancy Pelosi's victory speech


Now that's some scary sh!te right there, and to think that there were people actually agreeing with him. I'm surprised he didn't give a Nazi salute at the end of his little tinfoil hat speech:(

[Litti]

Let me tell you how it works in Finland. It might not be perfect but I think youngsters pretty much start from the same line.

Universities are free and every spring exams are held in different sections - from medicine to biology etc. You get some extra points for the test if your high school grades are decent but strictly speaking they dont mean anything if you want to study law or something similar.

Test books are released in January and you usually have 5-6 months to study by yourself. You read those damn books and you read them well, because there are thousands of applicants and only the motivated individuals get in. People who are genuinely interested about the subject.

[CG51]

Now that's some scary sh!te right there, and to think that there were people actually agreeing with him. I'm surprised he didn't give a Nazi salute at the end of his little tinfoil hat speech:(

I'm sure the Government is watching that nut job. That sounds like domestic terrorism to me.

[ViktorNavorski]

Your joking right? When people still experience the same crap then the legacy remains.How was the last midterm election for you, got turn away by them poll tax and literacy test. How was your last ride on a public bus, did the white man forced you to the back seats. Did you see the "Blacks need not apply" sign on the office bulletin board for that promotion. Well, sorry, of course people still experience the same crap.

A generation growing up with a lot more benefits and advantages in every conceivable field of life than those that fought for those very things and excuses can still be made. I am of a much smaller minority with even less representation in most aspects, yet somehow it is more improbable for the black community and also be someone else fault.

[Red]

How was the last midterm election for you, got turn away by them poll tax and literacy test. How was your last ride on a public bus, did the white man forced you to the back seats. Did you see the "Blacks need not apply" sign on the office bulletin board for that promotion. Well, sorry, of course people still experience the same crap.

A generation growing up with a lot more benefits and advantages in every conceivable field of life than those that fought for those very things and excuses can still be made. I am of a much smaller minority with even less representation in most aspects, yet somehow it is more improbable for the black community and also be someone else fault.

What are you trying to get at? So folks can vote and stay at the front of the bus so therefore if some asshole is racist to you buck up because you can vote now and you can ride in front of the bus. There is no denying that some folks don't take advantage of the opportunities presented but even for those who do,we still get a lot of BS cause of race.


Whos fault is it? It is the fault of any individual who decides to be a racist prick.

[kinsella]

Some of you are full of ****.

Guess what,even very afluent blacks still face discrimination and racism.Wonder how i know?I am one of them.Like me,a lot of black folks choose to ignore it and move on but it is there. It is funny how people dismiss race as an issue while it still is on all sides.While there are feck ups in the black community but there are screw ups everywhere but the legacy of racism even for rich black folks still remains.Say what you want but i and many other professional blacks like me see it all the time.

*edited for personal reasons. thank you.

so, now that i have laid out more of life then i cared to in order to avoid having to prove that i dont hate, better have something better to throw at me other then "you just hate non whites".

i am in no way saying that blacks now a days bring it all on themselves. but there is a case to be made to show that alot of the racism that is claimed is nothing more then blacks playing the race card cause that is what they saw their parents do.

i am hoping that people of all colors can take a good long look at themselves and recongize what faults they have and make changes to them. its gonna take all races to stop racism, not just whites.


ok, let the hate posts against me begin.........

[ViktorNavorski]

but even for those who do,we still get a lot of BS cause of race.Well, I guess our experiences shape our opinions differently. I don't choose to see what's not there and sure, I met a few racist pricks in my life, but they don't constitute any generalisation to your extent.


Whos fault is it? It is the fault of any individual who decides to be a racist prick.The world isn't perfect, there will always be homeless, racist, dumbarse, take your pick, but that hardly make it a legacy.

[nimer bortuqaal]

What are you trying to get at? So folks can vote and stay at the front of the bus so therefore if some asshole is racist to you buck up because you can vote now and you can ride in front of the bus. There is no denying that some folks don't take advantage of the opportunities presented but even for those who do,we still get a lot of BS cause of race.


Whos fault is it? It is the fault of any individual who decides to be a racist prick.

Just as it is the fault of the individual to be a complete bag of shyte and act like the world owes them something. I'm not a racist by any means, but you'd have to be blind to think that there isn't some serious issues within black culture that aren't caused by any racism. There are plenty of opportunities out there for anyone that wants to take advantage of them. I'm sure that one will encounter racism at certain points in their lives as just as anyone would encounter any type of predijuce (ie. not wearing the coolest clothes, not speaking well, not having the most grace, etc.). If one uses excuses as to why they cannot get ahead or are not on the same level as their peers then they are defeating themselves and they have only themselves to blame. Why is America becoming the land of "it's not my fault"? Weak minded people get left behind. You are using the "you're not black so you would'nt understand" excuse. I'm not downgrading any racism that you've encountered, but excuses like that will lose you some support.

[CG51]

So, only white people are racists?

I believe what some are trying to convey is: This is America, everyone has the opportunity to be successful if you study hard and work hard.

There will always be racism Red. It is something that is instilled to the young from the parents. That can be said of all races.

[Lt. James Anderson]

So, only white people are racists?

I believe what some are trying to convey is: This is America, everyone has the opportunity to be successful if you study hard and work hard.

There will always be racism Red. It is something that is instilled to the young from the parents. That can be said of all races.

It's not insitlled by anybody. It's human nature ... everybody is racist to some degree and claim the opposite is plain BS ... Just like in the military ... the majority of people hang out with their own ... Is that racism? It's human nature ...

[Red]

since this is a touchy subject i will speak only for myself and speak of only things i have been through myself.

i dont think anyone is saying that there is no racism.

is there still racism in america, yes. is it as bad as it was in the 50s and 60s? i can only assume not (since i was not alive then) since blacks can attend school without an armed guard.

the bulk of the racism that is still alive today is from older people, ones that were raised in a time when blacks were not seen or treated as whites were. as they die, so will the level of racism. look at todays teens. they are dating people of other races in numbers that would have caused our great gradfathers (of both races) to stroke out. this is a good sign.

it is too easy for black youths of today to throw the race card at anything they see fit, even if it does not allpy.

the other night (around 1 am) my neighbors were out in there yard yelling at some people in a car. my neighbors, and the people in the car were all black. the cops arrived, more yelling about some baby. cops got between the two groups cause they were about to goto blows. cops told everyone to calm down or people were gonna goto jail. that didnt stop the yelling or the threats of violence being tossed by both groups. finally, cops told the group in car to leave and the others to go inside. the first thing out of my neighbors mouth when the car drove away was to say to the cop "it dont matter, let them go, just another ni**er baby you racist pig". now what the hell did that need to thrown out for? the only white people there were the cops that showed up, and they could have just as easly been black, latino, or asain. maybe she would have had a reason to say that if the guys in the car wernt black, but they were. the point of this cops moment that happened next door is to show that they are used to using the race card for no reason at all. the cops could have taken them all to jail for disturbing the peace, but didnt. if the cops were racist wouldnt he have rounded them all up and taken them in??

stop throwing the race card at the drop of a hat and maybe whites will be more willing to look within and see some of the liitle things that they do that might be taken a racist. but why look within when no matter what you do as long as something doesnt go the way a black person thinks it should, we are called racists?

this may not sound like something that most would like to consider, but think about it for one second before you flame me and send me to hell. if more black people would stop playing the race card, stop telling a white person that they are racist becuase something soesnt go their way, then maybe, just maybe a few more kids will grow up thinking that not everything bad that happens to them is the fault of some white racist pig or grow up thinking that they are racist pigs.

by the way, since im sure that some are going to call me all kinds of names and think that i hate anyone other then white people, let me tell you a few things about myself.

1) i spent 3 years, out of 11, as a dj in hip hop clubs. the kind that weed is smoked in and the dj would not last 3 songs if he wasnt good.
2) i was asked to play the NAACP memorial day weekend at planet hollywood on south beach in miami in 2002. that is one of 3 or 4 NAACP sponsered events held around the country. each one is held in a different place. sobe for memorial day weekend (4 day party), another is held in ATL, not sure what that one is called. this is special to me, cause im NOT a hip hop dj, im a trance one (or was). yet i knew my stuff well enough to be asked to spin at it. it is a badge of honor me as a dj.
3) was engaged to a black girl. didnt work out, nothing to do with race.
4) born and raised in houston tx. have been around races of all levels of society since day one.
5) inter-racial marriages are in almost half of my extended family.

so, now that i have laid out more of life then i cared to in order to avoid having to prove that i dont hate, better have something better to throw at me other then "you just hate non whites".

i am in no way saying that blacks now a days bring it all on themselves. but there is a case to be made to show that alot of the racism that is claimed is nothing more then blacks playing the race card cause that is what they saw their parents do.

i am hoping that people of all colors can take a good long look at themselves and recongize what faults they have and make changes to them. its gonna take all races to stop racism, not just whites.


ok, let the hate posts against me begin.........


I have not hate posts for you at all.I know that the race card gets played a lot but all i was saying is that even for black folks who have done good for themselves,there are still racism issues that come about and this is not an race card BS being played.

[Red]

Well, I guess our experiences shape our opinions differently. I don't choose to see what's not there and sure, I met a few racist pricks in my life, but they don't constitute any generalisation to your extent.

The world isn't perfect, there will always be homeless, racist, dumbarse, take your pick, but that hardly make it a legacy.

For you it might not be but for millions of folks it is.

[Red]

Just as it is the fault of the individual to be a complete bag of shyte and act like the world owes them something. I'm not a racist by any means, but you'd have to be blind to think that there isn't some serious issues within black culture that aren't caused by any racism. There are plenty of opportunities out there for anyone that wants to take advantage of them. I'm sure that one will encounter racism at certain points in their lives as just as anyone would encounter any type of predijuce (ie. not wearing the coolest clothes, not speaking well, not having the most grace, etc.). If one uses excuses as to why they cannot get ahead or are not on the same level as their peers then they are defeating themselves and they have only themselves to blame. Why is America becoming the land of "it's not my fault"? Weak minded people get left behind. You are using the "you're not black so you would'nt understand" excuse. I'm not downgrading any racism that you've encountered, but excuses like that will lose you some support.
From most of the post on this thread,i can tell that most don't really understand. My point is that even for those who do well,there is still racism for them.

[CG51]

It's not insitlled by anybody. It's human nature ... everybody is racist to some degree and claim the opposite is plain BS ... Just like in the military ... the majority of people hang out with their own ... Is that racism? It's human nature ...

Human nature to a degree, but the parent can instill a child with moral values that makes the difference between someone that hates or someone that trusts.

[Red]

So, only white people are racists?

I believe what some are trying to convey is: This is America, everyone has the opportunity to be successful if you study hard and work hard.

There will always be racism Red. It is something that is instilled to the young from the parents. That can be said of all races.

I never have said racism is the sole preserve of white folks.Racism is a human problem but for many black folks the history is something that is hard to ignore. Yes, i know that racism will always be there and i guess so will people who complain about it.

[kinsella]

It's not insitlled by anybody. It's human nature ... everybody is racist to some degree and claim the opposite is plain BS ... Just like in the military ... the majority of people hang out with their own ... Is that racism? It's human nature ...

i think that is true.

maybe we are assigning the word racism to too many things.

we teach that thinking of someone of a different color as different is racism. it isnt. purple is different from red. white is different from black.

denying someone a job just becuase they are black, or white, or plaid is racism.

different doesnt mean better or worse, it just means different, as in not the exact same as the other.

[Red]

It's not insitlled by anybody. It's human nature ... everybody is racist to some degree and claim the opposite is plain BS ... Just like in the military ... the majority of people hang out with their own ... Is that racism? It's human nature ...

While it is human nature, a lot of it is learned.There are many bad things that are in our nature but we don't do them so that is not an excuse.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Human nature to a degree, but the parent can instill a child with moral values that makes the difference between someone that hates or someone that trusts.

I think nature is at least 80 % of who we are ... No matter what you do, it always wins in the end.

[CG51]

i think that is true.

maybe we are assigning the word racism to too many things.

we teach that thinking of someone of a different color as different is racism. it isnt. purple is different from red. white is different from black.

denying someone a job just becuase they are black, or white, or plaid is racism.

different doesnt mean better or worse, it just means different, as in not the exact same as the other.

Racism is ones belief that their race is superior to another.

[CG51]

I think nature is at least 80 % of who we are ... No matter what you do, it always wins in the end.

I am not saying your wrong, but racism is something that is taught. Look at the Nazi's, they are a good example of teaching a child when he is young that he is superior to all other races and should dominate and rule them. This is something that was not cultivated overnight.

[kinsella]

It's funny you mentione that. There is this black VP at Microsoft that has on ear ring,corn rows,wears baggy jeans,and sneakers but is one of the most brilliant men i have ever known.He used to work on Artificial Intelligence for the government and has his own private tech company.He is very very rich but he is an ordinary guy.So you could look at him and call him a thug or you could look at his Benz and call him a drug pusher but people never know that you don't judge a book by its cover all the time.

it is true and sad. your are right, looks dont make the man. the brain, heart, and soul cannot be seen only the skin, which all we see is clad in gangsta wear..

the problem arises when the image put forth by the black community is contrary to that. you dont see any smart, professional, black guys dressed like that. i know they exist, but they dont get shown to anyone on a wide scale. all that is put forth is the gangsta image and attitude as well.

all that is shown is that rappers and hoods dress one way, while the professionals dress another. why is then a surprise that people react negativly towards the rapper and hood image and not so much towards the professional?

maybe instead of just holding up that bad image, we could see these professionals instead of just the gangstas. i know they exist, hell, this country wouldnt be where it is without some VERY smart balcks.

[kinsella]

Your joking right? When people still experience the same crap then the legacy remains.
i agree. so i ask, what actions can we all do to stop the legacy from continuing?

this is a simple way of putting it, but i know we are all smart enough to get the meaning of this: its like if we all just dont tell out children anything about racism, dont mention it, dont talk about. thent hey can grow up in a world without it. they wont learn what we dont pass on to them

yes i know that is living in a fantasy world. spare me the reasons it wont work if we literally tried it. try instead to suggest things that would achieve the same effect.

[Red]

it is true and sad. your are right, looks dont make the man. the brain, heart, and soul cannot be seen only the skin, which all we see is clad in gangsta wear..

the problem arises when the image put forth by the black community is contrary to that. you dont see any smart, professional, black guys dressed like that. i know they exist, but they dont get shown to anyone on a wide scale. all that is put forth is the gangsta image and attitude as well.

all that is shown is that rappers and hoods dress one way, while the professionals dress another. why is then a surprise that people react negativly towards the rapper and hood image and not so much towards the professional?

maybe instead of just holding up that bad image, we could see these professionals instead of just the gangstas. i know they exist, hell, this country wouldnt be where it is without some VERY smart balcks.

Gangsta rap is not black culture so lets get that out there. I also disagree with telling people how to live their lives and what to wear to please another segment of the population. I don't think any less of white people when i see other whites who are uneducated,on welfare,can't speak proper english,and dress like bums. We all make our choices i guess

[Red]

i agree. so i ask, what actions can we all do to stop the legacy from continuing?

this is a simple way of putting it, but i know we are all smart enough to get the meaning of this: its like if we all just dont tell out children anything about racism, dont mention it, dont talk about. thent hey can grow up in a world without it. they wont learn what we dont pass on to them

yes i know that is living in a fantasy world. spare me the reasons it wont work if we literally tried it. try instead to suggest things that would achieve the same effect.


I doubt we can completely remove it but we can continue to minimize it and move forward as this country has over the years.

[kinsella]

I doubt we can completely remove it but we can continue to minimize it and move forward as this country has over the years.

so maybe this as a start......

whites dont think that the gangsta look equals what they think it means.......

blacks stop using the race card at every little chance they can.

hows that for a start??

[Red]

so maybe this as a start......

whites dont think that the gangsta look equals what they think it means.......

blacks stop using the race card at every little chance they can.

hows that for a start??

I guess it is a start but it is an individual thing

[kinsella]

I guess it is a start but it is an individual thing
kewl...ill pass it on at the next meeting:))







ps. thanks to all that didnt drag this down into a name calling war. seen this topic on other borads and it didnt make past the 5th post.

[kinsella]

so RED, now that we all on here have begun to end a bad thing in american society, shall we tackel the terrorists next or the illegal immagration issue??

[Red]

so RED, now that we all on here have begun to end a bad thing in american society, shall we tackel the terrorists next or the illegal immagration issue??

Phew,that's another headache unto itself

[2Sheds_Jackson]

ps. thanks to all that didnt drag this down into a name calling war. seen this topic on other borads and it didnt make past the 5th post.

Yes you've all done excellently. I shall put this thread on the cover of next month's Congenial Forum Magazine.

All I know is that there is a difference between discrimination and racial discrimination. A hiring manager's job is to discriminate. But he can't do it based on skin color. He can, however, take a dim view of people with tattoos on their necks or hands, who play with their business every 15 seconds while speaking, who dress for the interview as if they were spending the day on the couch etc. Education is part of the equation, presentation/execution is another. What good is an education about the business world if you are unwilling to assimilate to it? The world is a competitive place - they will be able to find somebody exactly as accomplished, but who doesn't look and act like an idiot. I mean, as a Fortune 100 company, would you hire a front desk receptionist who had 3 nose rings, a tattoo on her face and who dropped the F bomb every 5th word? Not if you want to stay in the Fortune 100. :)

My dad is ex-Navy, and is covered in tattoos of questionable taste. Even back in the '60's he was denied work, and as he progressed in his career, passed over for promotion, because he basically looks like a thug. He achieved the look he wanted, achieved the effect he wanted (i.e. making people a bit uneasy) and so he realized he (unfortunately) got exactly what he had asked for. He executed some excellent fatherly advice, and told me to never get a tattoo, or do anything stupid where anybody at work could see it.

[kinsella]

Yes you've all done excellently. I shall put this thread on the cover of next month's Congenial Forum Magazine.


hooooray.................go team venture!!

[Macs.]

2sheds, you need to learn from our Social-Democrats.

In their last legislative period they passed a "Anti-Discrimnation-Law" to protect employees from big bad discrimnating hiring managers.


No need to say that this all worked out wonderfully...

[XASA]

Hats off to you Red for keeping your cool during what could have been a heated debate about race.

Despite the many naysayers who seem to either be in denial or are closet racists, race has been, is and always will be an issue in the United States. To deny it exists is a fantasy. It's better today than it was a generation ago and, hopefully, it will be better for future generations as America moves towards a more multicultural society, but it still exists in every strata of American society.

One can only hope that those of you who continually express your discontent about racial issues will one day come to realize that racism is bad for the country. What I find to be ironic is that this is a website that supports the U.S. military, the least racist institution in the country. Tens of thousands of African-Americans are serving in the GWOT honorably; yet, the stereotypes persist. Sad.

[Red]

Hats off to you Red for keeping your cool during what could have been a heated debate about race.

Despite the many naysayers who seem to either be in denial or are closet racists, race has been, is and always will be an issue in the United States. To deny it exists is a fantasy. It's better today than it was a generation ago and, hopefully, it will be better for future generations as America moves towards a more multicultural society, but it still exists in every strata of American society.

One can only hope that those of you who continually express your discontent about racial issues will one day come to realize that racism is bad for the country. What I find to be ironic is that this is a website that supports the U.S. military, the least racist institution in the country. Tens of thousands of African-Americans are serving in the GWOT honorably; yet, the stereotypes persist. Sad.


Thanks XASA. I have not seen you post in a WHILE now XASA but thanks for the good feedback.

[mudbunny]

I agree with alot of the statements here; I've witnessed alot of the same things in academia as well. It all starts in the family unit and alot of the black males are socially unprepared to go out into an academic or corporate setting and succeed. They just don't have the tools. Now I've come away impressed with the black females, they really seem to want it and bust their a$$e$ to attain it; some still have that street mentality, but it doesn't overpower them like it does to some of the black males who just can't drop that thug mentality or they use it as a shield and a crutch.

[AZRON]

. It's better today than it was a generation ago and, hopefully, it will be better for future generations as America moves towards a more multicultural society, yet, the stereotypes persist. Sad.


Multicultural societies don't work that well. There are exceptions such as Switzerland , but for the most part they create more problems than they solve.

I believe in a broad culture. The old melting pot works for me. As we have many cross culture unions and marriages which one dominates ?

Multi cultural societies.
# Iraq - Sunni-Shia -Kurds kill each other every day for cultural reasons.
# Former Yugoslavia ... multiculture war.
# Germany.. Turk-Germans born in Germany can't speak German at age 30. Feel like outcasts...duh!
#U.K. Muslims demanding Shria law.
# U.S. California- Colleges have separate graduation ceremonies for Hispanic, black and white students( sounds like segregation to me).
# Sudan Darfur.. Brown Arab Muslims murder and enslave Black African Muslims.

Broad Culture .. melting pot
# St. Patty's Day.. Not just the Irish celebrate.
# Cinco De Mayo.. Not just the Mexicans celebrate.
# October Fest.. Not just the Germans celebrate.
# California- Arnold an Austrian gets elected in a state with very few Austrians in it( melting pot).

Broad culture ... melting pot works.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

One can only hope that those of you who continually express your discontent about racial issues will one day come to realize that racism is bad for the country. What I find to be ironic is that this is a website that supports the U.S. military, the least racist institution in the country. Tens of thousands of African-Americans are serving in the GWOT honorably; yet, the stereotypes persist. Sad.

Well I don't think anybody here has advocated racism or denied that it exists. But does questioning an undeniably racist policy make one a racist...how does that even make sense?

I see two separate issues - racism, and equal opportunity. They are not the same thing. The current crop of civil rights leaders does not oppose racism. In fact, they use racism, backed up by the power of the government, to create equal opportunity programs. I don't see how that can be defined as "civil rights", nor how they expect that to help the dialog between the races in the US. If we can't even be honest about the debate, how can we fix it? If racism is bad, then let's end it. If racism is an acceptable tool, then it will be continue to be viewed as acceptable.

I agree with your assessment of the military - it's one of the few meritocracies around. But you will note that there are absolutely no race-based shortcuts to be found in the military. They don't use racial quotas to fill jobs, or give people a few extra points on the ASVAB if they're race "X". It's a truly color-blind system, as it should be.

IMHO that's how our society should be as well. But instead of being color blind, we have made color everything. Even to question state sanctioned racism gets you labeled as a racist...which is about as intellectually lazy as one can get. It's right up there with "why do you hate America so much"?

[ejlee7829]

As a Black Man, I believe we as a race of people need to take action internally. There are allot of us (black people) out there that are very quick to use the race card as a crutch. I am in no way saying that racism doesn't exist, I am saying that some published reports ARE over inflated. For instance, the shooting of an undercover black police officer here by a uniformed white police officer, the race card was thrown in when in fact the FACTS stood for themselves and it was NOT a race thing.

[Createdeemcee]

I totally agree with you, Usually children of color from big citys think with that race card mentality since they arent as integrated. Im fortunate was raised around kids of all backgrounds which gave me different perspectives on how races interact at young age. I then went to an all black college and was culture shocked for a while. Racism does exist, and will always. Yet I do believe that the gap is closing for sure.

[Herrmannek]

You can't force someone to be happy...

[AK74]

You can't force someone to be happy...

sad but true, i wholeheartedly agree with you.

but you can always try to make someone happy.woot :hug:

[Createdeemcee]

You can't force someone to be happy...


Thats the honest truth!

[ejlee7829]

Very, very true (ask my ex-wife)

[SBL]

This is a little off-topic, but I stumbled on this website a few nights back.
Makes for an interesting read to say the least:


http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=109

[Lt. James Anderson]

I agree with your assessment of the military - it's one of the few meritocracies around. But you will note that there are absolutely no race-based shortcuts to be found in the military. They don't use racial quotas to fill jobs, or give people a few extra points on the ASVAB if they're race "X". It's a truly color-blind system, as it should be.

You served in the military? That is simply not true ... I know at least ten people who got promoted based on race ... There are quotas, just like everywhere else (maybe even more so in the military). My unit was about 85-90% white ... So we had to have a certain % of minority NCOs (whether they deserved it or not ... some did, some didn't but were promoted anyways).

[kinsella]

You served in the military? That is simply not true ... I know at least ten people who got promoted based on race ... There are quotas, just like everywhere else (maybe even more so in the military). My unit was about 85-90% white ... So we had to have a certain % of minority NCOs (whether they deserved it or not ... some did, some didn't but were promoted anyways).

i am not doubting that what you say is true, i am not an officer and not prevy to the info that officers have.

could it be that from the enlisted point of view that it seems that racism isnt there? all they see is a bunch of guys all doing pretty much the samethings regardless of color.

just a thought.

maybe the NCOs that got promoted were seen by the rest as just the right people to be promoted, even if they were black. they didnt know about the quotas that needed to be filled. they just accepcted it as is.

by all the enlisted thinking that there is not racism in play and thus acting accordingly, is not the same as there actually not being racism? from the enlisted point of view anyway.

[Lt. James Anderson]

No, they weren't. They were seen as they were - undisciplined, don' care about anything, don't know anything etc. ... and everybody saw it the way it was - promotion based on race.

There's no open racism in the military, but it is on the same level as the outside world. I've heard all kinds of racial epitaphs in my time ... a lot more than I heard outside the military ...

Is that a good or bad thing? Neither. It's just the way it is ...

[ejlee7829]

If I might ask, what branch of service is this?

[LaoSexMachine]

No, they weren't. They were seen as they were - undisciplined, don' care about anything, don't know anything etc. ... and everybody saw it the way it was - promotion based on race.

There's no open racism in the military, but it is on the same level as the outside world. I've heard all kinds of racial epitaphs in my time ... a lot more than I heard outside the military ...

Is that a good or bad thing? Neither. It's just the way it is ...

From my experience the racial slurs were jokes and not to be taken seriously. BTW I didn't get promoted because of my race. Never saw that.

[gaijinsamurai]

My best friends in the Corps were almost all non-white, and we used to constantly say racist stuff to each other, but we knew it was all in fun. None of us ever meant it. Later, when I had to adapt to the civilian world, I had to realize that that kind of talk can get a person into trouble, even if it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
Overall, from a white person's perspective, I felt that the military had a lot less racial tension than the civilian world.

[kinsella]

From my experience the racial slurs were jokes and not to be taken seriously. BTW I didn't get promoted because of my race. Never saw that.

i do think that the guys in the military can make and takes racial jokes like they are meant to be.....as a laughable thing. like two good life long drinkin buddies would when no one is around.

[makavelli]

so, can condy make it to presidential election soon?

[LaoSexMachine]

i do think that the guys in the military can make and takes racial jokes like they are meant to be.....as a laughable thing. like two good life long drinkin buddies would when no one is around.

Exactly. Alot of the people I served with didn't even heard of Laos till they met me.

[kinsella]

Exactly. Alot of the people I served with didn't even heard of Laos till they met me.

i remeber in bootcamp, one of the drill instrustors (who was black) was teaching a new marching cadence. it had some clapping and stomping involved, kinda like something from STIRPES. i was not in sync with the rythem. he made some crack about me being white and it was ok cause i didnt have any rythem. i thought it was funny as hell, and i was the butt of the joke. that right there taught me what i needed to know. keep it between Marines and light hearted, be able to laugh at yourself and it will be ok. i knew he wasnt serious, but that was too good to pass up, i was right then at the moment a living sterotype, just as he was in implying that he had it cause he black. it was like a real life SNL skit.

that is a lesson that the cilivans of this country should learn. laugh at yourself, and you can laugh at others. its all good.