M203 Sight missing [Archive]

Hitmann

11-15-2006, 01:01 PM

hi everybody!
I m looking for some info about M203 sight missing on this photos:
http://cryeprecision.com/Images/site/soldier_bg.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/USSOCOM_Training/z_sft03.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/USSOCOM_Training/z_sft04.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/USSOCOM_Training/c_nsw04.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/USSOCOM_Training/a_aft01.jpg

Is some special type of sight on left side?

10thvet

11-15-2006, 01:09 PM

To begin with the M203 has rounds that do not require a sight to shoot... Say a buckshot round or a gas round...

seraosha

11-15-2006, 01:12 PM

Generaly you would have two sights for the m203...going from memory here. The back sight was a PITA and I can't remember using it after basic training. It would fall off/ get banged off in normal use. It connected to the handle, and to the right of the sight rail.

The front sight was a flip-up type, that could be used in conjunction with the rear, but again, I hardly used the sight. After firing the m203 a few times, the angle you held the rifle at came as second nature.

With all the sights and rails you see in those pics, not to mention the tactical environment they look like they are used in, those guys most likely ditched the sights.

I did at every opportunity.

Kersh

11-15-2006, 01:17 PM

Is that Crye Multicam in the first photo?

flanker7

11-15-2006, 01:19 PM

Is that Crye Multicam in the first photo?

Yes. Is that a naked woman with a gun on your avatar?p-)

chrisp1j

11-15-2006, 01:19 PM

Cdn flip up sights are on the left side of the weapon. If you think about it, when you fire from your right shoulder, you need them to be on the left so you can use them.

Its the only time that you will lay the weapon down with the ejection port cover facing down, to protect the M203 sights.

Chris

bluffcove

11-15-2006, 01:27 PM

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/USSOCOM_Training/c_nsw04.jpg

Tom selleck?

seraosha

11-15-2006, 01:51 PM

Nick_Karatzides

11-15-2006, 04:27 PM

After firing the m203 a few times, the angle you held the rifle at came as second nature.

With all the sights and rails you see in those pics, not to mention the tactical environment they look like they are used in, those guys most likely ditched the sights. I did at every opportunity.By the same way, we should remove the iron front or rear sights from our rifles or pistols too, just because we are good shooters and the rifle had became our second nature! Or maybe not?

For me, the M-203 launcher should be used WITH sights or be prepared to spray grenades on spots that you wouldn't like to hit. I can understand that the rifle becomes too heavy with all this "sights, LASER & rails" stuff... but there's no other way if someone need to complete accurate shots.

annihilation

11-15-2006, 04:43 PM

This might be a dumb question. But what optic or gadget is that in the picture. Its located between the scope and end of the barrel on top of the rifle. It looks like a square that sits on top of the barrel infront of the scope. Is it a laser range finder or something?

Hydro

11-15-2006, 04:45 PM

It's a visible/IR laser projector/illuminator.

Hitmann

11-15-2006, 04:46 PM

annihilation

11-15-2006, 04:50 PM

Cool thank you.

seraosha

11-15-2006, 05:13 PM

By the same way, we should remove the iron front or rear sights from our rifles or pistols too, just because we are good shooters and the rifle had became our second nature! Or maybe not?

For me, the M-203 launcher should be used WITH sights or be prepared to spray grenades on spots that you wouldn't like to hit. I can understand that the rifle becomes too heavy with all this "sights, LASER & rails" stuff... but there's no other way if someone need to complete accurate shots.

*shrug*
I qualified with the M203 without sights, and on the occasions I used it in the field I managed to hit what I was aiming at.

But if you get your panties in a bunch over that, I hesitate to write about how we used the MK19 without the pintal locks when mounted as crew served weapons. 40mm auto grenade launcher without the nerf, FTW!

Nick_Karatzides

11-15-2006, 06:01 PM

By the same way, we should remove the iron front or rear sights from our rifles or pistols too, just because we are good shooters and the rifle had became our second nature! Or maybe not?

For me, the M-203 launcher should be used WITH sights or be prepared to spray grenades on spots that you wouldn't like to hit. I can understand that the rifle becomes too heavy with all this "sights, LASER & rails" stuff... but there's no other way if someone need to complete accurate shots.I qualified with the M203 without sights, and on the occasions I used it in the field I managed to hit what I was aiming at.

without sights + aiming = I'm confused

I'm just curious about HOW you did aim on your targets :) :) :)

wicked_hind

11-15-2006, 06:07 PM

"without sights" + "aiming" = I'm confused

I'm just curious about HOW you did aim on your targets :) :) :)

Because when you're an M-203 grenadier during your entire career, you can pretty much eyeball where that grenade round is gonna go since the round is so slow, and put it where you want it.

Nick_Karatzides

11-15-2006, 06:14 PM

Because when you're an M-203 grenadier during your entire career, you can pretty much eyeball where that grenade round is gonna go since the round is so slow, and put it where you want it.Well, I think that this is called "prediction" or just "luck". When you use the sights (that's why the manufacturer place these small iron parts over there...) the grenade goes exactly where you aim. Not close to the point, but exactly ON the point.

I'm not willing to fight more with a battle prooven (if any) M-203 grenadier. I'm just writting my personal opinion as a LE SpecOps operator.

:) :) :)

kamarian

11-15-2006, 07:36 PM

without sights + aiming = I'm confused

I'm just curious about HOW you did aim on your targets :) :) :)

It's called Kentucky Windage.

When you shoot something enough, you can tell excatly where the rounds are going to go. True, with the correct sights, you can have pinpoint accuracy, but with a weapon that shoots explosive rounds, whats a meter or two off? If you can get a round through a window, or hit what ever you are aiming at without sights, so what?

digrar

11-15-2006, 07:38 PM

Well, I think that this is called "prediction" or just "luck".

We called it instinctive shooting....

wicked_hind

11-15-2006, 07:40 PM

Yeah, you could probably call it both prediction and luck, but I'm just saying that it's possible to use the weapon without the sight (if need be) if you're an experienced grenadier.

wicked_hind

11-15-2006, 07:41 PM

It's called Kentucky Windage.

Good onerofl

Violet Fashion by Mindy

11-15-2006, 07:42 PM

I'm not in the army.

But the 203 is not a scientific weapon thats needs uber gear to fire. They fire in an arc like artillery/mortors and once you learn how the arc works you wouldn't need to use the sights anyway.

Thats just this armchair's opinion. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Seraphim

11-15-2006, 08:37 PM

We called it instinctive shooting....

I guess he doesnt believe in point shooting either.

AlexNenadic

11-15-2006, 09:12 PM

Well, I think that this is called
I'm not willing to fight more with a battle prooven (if any) M-203 grenadier. I'm just writting my personal opinion as a LE SpecOps operator.

You don't have sights for hand grenades either.

TacoDelRio

11-15-2006, 09:21 PM

You don't have sights for hand grenades either.

They're working on that.... p-)

Ever shoot a BB gun as a kid? Kinda learn to lob BB's to hit something, like a box or a bird or a loud neighbor. Well, a bit higher angle, more boom, and it's a 203.

BenUSMC

11-15-2006, 09:26 PM

You don't have sights for hand grenades either.

if you are close enough to use a grenade you probably wont be using your 203.

Also your margin of error with a hand grenade is huge, youre not throwing it very far. If you had the same margin of error applied to a 203 and fired at ranges they were meant to be, you wouldnt be hitting ****.

Nick_Karatzides

11-15-2006, 09:28 PM

Well, I think that this is called "prediction" or just "luck". When you use the sights (that's why the manufacturer place these small iron parts over there...) the grenade goes exactly where you aim. Not close to the point, but exactly ON the point.

I'm not willing to fight more with a battle prooven (if any) M-203 grenadier. I'm just writting my personal opinion as a LE SpecOps operator.You don't have sights for hand grenades either.AlexNenadic (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=3545), you are off-topic. Unless you are able to throw a hand grenade to a 200 to 300 meters distance and directly hit the exact target point, I suggest to think before writing your next message about the M-203 grenade launcher system.

Hand grenade throwing has NOTHING to do with the M-203 grenade launcher aiming

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/01/Grenade_training_with_dummy.jpg

As I said before, these small iron parts placed on the upper part of the rifle, are named "iron sights" (flip-up/side typed quadrant sight or ladder sight on rifle) and the M-203 grenade launcher's (or rifle's) manufacturer decide to stick them in position for a good reason - to take AIM!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/M4w-att.jpg/800px-M4w-att.jpg

kamarian

11-15-2006, 09:46 PM

Whats the point of fitting extra sights to a weapon when you don't need them?

Nick_Karatzides

11-15-2006, 10:00 PM

Whats the point of fitting extra sights to a weapon when you don't need them?Don't need the sights - don't need to aim? So, what's the point of shooting practice? I hope it is not just to spend ammo and the tax payers money! As we all know, the sights are optical devices used to assist aim by guiding the eye and aligning it with the weapon or other item (target) to be pointed. Right?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Rear_iron_sight_m15a4carbine.jpg

For me, the shooter (rifle, pistol, etc) must ALWAYS - ALWAYS - ALWAYS check the sights (iron, telescopic or red-dot electronic) before pressing the trigger in order to be sure that his bullets, will hit the target, on the exact desired point. After completing THOUSANDS (or maybe dozen of thousands) of shootings, his arm & finger muscles will start "remembering" the exact position of the weapon (rifle, pistol, etc) into his hands or on his body while shooting corectly. If the shooter is well trained, he MIGHT be lucky enough to feel this "muscle memory" effect while shooting. But, the shooter must ALWAYS - ALWAYS - ALWAYS check the sights while training. I would accept a posible scenario for the shooter to fire his weapon by instict, but ONLY under live fire conditions and ofcourse after establishing the "muscle memory" effect. After all, I cannot expect by a shooter to be calm enough and taking good aim on his sights when his life is in great danger and enemy bullets are hiting around him.

So, unless you are not a REAL battle prooven fighter or didn't fought for your life (hopefully not yet), I recomend to ALWAYS - ALWAYS - ALWAYS check the sights before pressing the trigger.

EVIL NADMAN

11-15-2006, 10:31 PM

*shrug*
I qualified with the M203 without sights, and on the occasions I used it in the field I managed to hit what I was aiming at.

But if you get your panties in a bunch over that, I hesitate to write about how we used the MK19 without the pintal locks when mounted as crew served weapons. 40mm auto grenade launcher without the nerf, FTW!
Yeah I shot expert with the Loose Leaf sight and then with the quad sight I think is what it was called. Then I shot expert without either! Its not that hard of a weapon to master. I think the the .50 Cal is a lot harder to get used to... But then again thats just me.p-)

kamarian

11-15-2006, 11:05 PM

Don't need the sights - don't need to aim? So, what's the point of shooting practice? I hope it is not just to spend ammo and the tax payers money! As we all know, the sights are optical devices used to assist aim by guiding the eye and aligning it with the weapon or other item (target) to be pointed. Right?

Thats exactly what shooting practise is for.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Rear_iron_sight_m15a4carbine.jpg

For me, the shooter (rifle, pistol, etc) must ALWAYS - ALWAYS - ALWAYS check the sights (iron, telescopic or red-dot electronic) before pressing the trigger in order to be sure that his bullets, will hit the target, on the exact desired point. After completing THOUSANDS (or maybe dozen of thousands) of shootings, his arm & finger muscles will start "remembering" the exact position of the weapon (rifle, pistol, etc) into his hands or on his body while shooting corectly. If the shooter is well trained, he MIGHT be lucky enough to feel this "muscle memory" effect while shooting. But, the shooter must ALWAYS - ALWAYS - ALWAYS check the sights while training. I would accept a posible scenario for the shooter to fire his weapon by instict, but ONLY under live fire conditions and ofcourse after establishing the "muscle memory" effect. After all, I cannot expect by a shooter to be calm enough and taking good aim on his sights when his life is in great danger and enemy bullets are hiting around him.

So, unless you are not a REAL battle prooven fighter or didn't fought for your life (hopefully not yet), I recomend to ALWAYS - ALWAYS - ALWAYS check the sights before pressing the trigger.

We were talking about the 203 and nothing else. Muscle memory does have a lot to do with it, but also knowing the weapon, the ammo ballistics, and environment, does help as well. you don't always need sights to hit what you are aiming at. If you want precision rifle fire, yes use the sights. If you need area suppression, why use them?

jagermeister

11-15-2006, 11:38 PM

you do not need a sights for the M203.....you get a feel for it and look over the top of your FSB. its like throwing a rock you get a feel for it and naturaly know were to aim.

TacoDelRio

11-16-2006, 01:01 AM

Dude....Nick....

Have you ever thrown a baseball?

I haven't shot an M203 all that much, but it's pretty easy to "guesstimate" where them rounds go. Granted, if everything is perfect and correct, you use your sights as you should, but sometimes things are different. Maybe there's no space on their rifle/carbine for a front M203 sight unit.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but it's one of those things you get a "feel" for, and you can learn to kinda lob 'em out there.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to help you understand why some other folks think differently.

Icarus1

11-16-2006, 03:42 AM

I shot the GWA for SIG550 a lot, but never the 203. But it's pretty much the same 40m grenade launcher system.

After a few rounds you can estimate where the grenade goes without sights. But shooting a window in 70m distance was always a situation where I used my sights... Don't know if you can hit that target without sights. I have also to say that the GWA for SIG550 has a very good (and stable) sight.

AlexNenadic

11-16-2006, 08:44 AM

AlexNenadic, you are off-topic. Unless you are able to throw a hand grenade to a 200 to 300 meters distance and directly hit the exact target point, I suggest to think before writing your next message about the M-203 grenade launcher system.

Good job, you completely missed the point.

Sabre

11-16-2006, 01:44 PM

We called it instinctive shooting....

I call it a Beirut unload

...AAAAAARRRRRGHHHH!!!!!!! Blat blat blat blat blat......Run away! :lol:

StukaJr

11-16-2006, 02:08 PM

From totally chairborne perspective:

Russian GP25/30's seemingly lack sights when in the field, leaving it to the imagination when lobbing grenades into windows or behind cover. There is a video of M203 being used as a mortar in Iraq - no sight will aid you in doing that. US Troops in Vietnam went as far as removing their sights off of designated M67 blooper guns and were rather proficient at serving the purpose.

ZoneOne

11-16-2006, 02:10 PM

Nick_Karatzides

11-16-2006, 02:12 PM

AlexNenadic (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=3545), you are off-topic. Unless you are able to throw a hand grenade to a 200 to 300 meters distance and directly hit the exact target point, I suggest to think before writing your next message about the M-203 grenade launcher system.Good job, you completely missed the point.Maybe you are right about missing the discussion point, but I didn't missed the target!

:) :) :)

Twombly

11-16-2006, 02:19 PM

lol that reminds me of "full metal jacket"

There is a scene where a guy uses his 203 launcher at night w/ no sights and adjusts his position according to the sounds of the vietcong.

(I know, it's a movie)

Well it was "Apocalypse Now" and M79 grenade launcher p-)

Edit: If you have seen "Shootout Fallujah" there was a marine who popped a grenade from 203 to the window 300 yards far without aiming. And this was a DOCUMENT and not a MOVIE.

EMPEROR ATTiLA

11-16-2006, 03:17 PM

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6861/dsc02458nx0.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

l have never seen mp5 and Grenade launcher COMBO BEFORE

KaceCoyote

11-16-2006, 05:23 PM

So Nick, exactly how much range time do you have with an M203 or any other similar system?

Nick_Karatzides

11-16-2006, 05:38 PM

So Nick, exactly how much range time do you have with an M203 or any other similar system?KaceCoyote (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=7355), I hope you are not trying to be "smartie" on me, right? Because if you do, I got the right answer for this question. Finaly, I'd recomend to check my profile first, before posting such a "smart" question again.

:) :) :)

KaceCoyote

11-16-2006, 05:40 PM

KaceCoyote (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=7355), are you trying to be "smartie" on me? Because if you do... I got the right answer for this question. I'd recomend to check my profile first, before posting such a "smart" question again.

:) :) :)

its "smartass". I'm asking you, how much range time do you have with this weapon system? Just because you have an SF tab doesnt make you an instant veteran with every weapon system on the planet earth.

Nick_Karatzides

11-16-2006, 05:46 PM

KaceCoyote (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=7355), I hope you are not trying to be "smartie" on me, right? Because if you do, I got the right answer for this question. Finaly, I'd recomend to check my profile first, before posting such a "smart" question again.

:) :) :)

its "smartass". I'm asking you, how much range time do you have with this weapon system? Just because you have an SF tab doesnt make you an instant veteran with every weapon system on the planet earth.Special thanks for your lesson on English language, but I think that I manage to comunicate even without it. I used the "smartie" word as a sweet version of the "smartass" you proposed.

As for your question, nobody is able to claim himself as a veteran - except John J Rambo ofcourse. For your info, I'm dealing with "toys-for-big-boys" the last aprox 16 years. It doesn't make me an instant veteran with every weapon system on the planet Earth, but I think it's quite enough to let me say my word. Isn't it?

After all, why bothering so much if I strongly believe that M-203 should be used with sights and some other respectfull MP.net members said that they prefer to use it without co-witnessing the iron sights?

Cheers :) :) :)

Tuco

11-16-2006, 05:51 PM

oh well, I have a request gents.
Could you provide me infos about optical sights for the 40x46 systems please ?
I have heard of one existing, including a laser rangefinder. Is that true ?

KaceCoyote

11-16-2006, 05:55 PM

Special thanks for your lesson on English language, but I think that I manage to comunicate even without it. I used the "smartie" word as a sweet version of the "smartass" you proposed.

As for your question, nobody is able to claim himself as a veteran - except John J Rambo ofcourse. For your info, I'm dealing with "boys-for-big-boys" the last aprox 16 years. It doesn't make me an instant veteran with every weapon system on the planet Earth, but I think it's quite enough to let me say my word. Isn't it?

After all, why bothering so much if I strongly believe that M-203 should be used with sights and some other respectfull MP.net members said that they prefer to use it without co-witnessing the iron sights?

Cheers :) :) :)

Hey I'm just curious as to how much experience with that weapon system you have, for you to make the call. You still have not answered my question. Aproximately how much field use with the M203 do you have?

wicked_hind

11-16-2006, 05:56 PM

Oh for the love of......some people prefer to use the sights and some don't. There, are you happy with that answer?!?!?!?

KaceCoyote

11-16-2006, 05:58 PM

Oh for the love of......some people prefer to use the sights and some don't. There, are you happy with that answer?!?!?!?

I agree. Whatever works.

jagermeister

11-16-2006, 06:12 PM

some people have a hard time understanding you dont have to have sights to effectively use a m203.

wicked_hind

11-16-2006, 06:17 PM

some people have a hard time understanding you dont have to have sights to effectively use a m203.
Aggravating, isn't it?

StukaJr

11-16-2006, 06:19 PM

Is the M203 sight is still "missing" from the weapon if the operator knows where it is? Like the locker, gear bag or if he left it on the nightstand? :D

jagermeister

11-16-2006, 06:26 PM

its like saying my pitching arm is missing its sight even though my eyes work fine:roll:

Seraphim

11-16-2006, 06:27 PM

its like saying my pitching arm is missing its sight even though my eyes work fine:roll:

You dont have a HUD on your dominant eye? p-)

jagermeister

11-16-2006, 06:29 PM

no sadly it got confiscated at the airport.

KaceCoyote

11-16-2006, 06:31 PM

no sadly it got confiscated at the airport.

can you believe they dont give that **** back neither?

Nick_Karatzides

11-16-2006, 07:46 PM

some people have a hard time understanding you dont have to have sights to effectively use a m203.Some people have a hard time understanding the difference between terms like "effectively use" and "accurate shots". If you try to read ALL the previous posts, you'll get the picture.

I'd recomend to talk in a way to improove productive dialog. Don't talk just to talk and increase your post credit! At last, please leave a comment that might help other MP.net members to got the point.

No heart feelings - Thanks for your help.

jagermeister

11-16-2006, 08:33 PM

im sorry dude i dont care about post counts and i have nothing to prove to anyone on the net especially you. i dont pretend to know what kind of accuracy your trying to get out of your M203 but when i say use effectively i mean you hit what you aim at and if you do that your accurate enough. This isnt a precision weapon your talking about here bud if you want one of those grab a long gun.

KaceCoyote

11-16-2006, 11:14 PM

jagermeister

11-16-2006, 11:32 PM

im a idiot.....Just sounds like hes never used one and is stubborn as hell so your probably making the right call.

KaceCoyote

11-17-2006, 12:29 AM

i cant work at the mall anymore i got caught stealing womans underwear.

I werent talkin bout you friend.

DE_Six

11-17-2006, 10:57 AM

For your info, I'm dealing with "boys-for-big-boys" the last aprox 16 years.

I'm afraid, very afraid to ask what in Jebus' name that means...so I will refrain.

That said, since you professed having no experience with the 203, why don't you just take it from those who do and leave it at that?

I've never been in combat, much less used a 203 in anger, but I have handled one and by the way the sight works, I can understand why the grenadier would eyeball it and not fumble with that thing under fire. Combat isn't benchrest marksmanship.

Icarus1

11-17-2006, 11:00 AM

I'm afraid, very afraid to ask what in Jebus' name that means...so I will refrain.

That said, since you professed having no experience with the 203, why don't you just take it from those who do and leave it at that?

I've never been in combat, much less used a 203 in anger, but I have handled one and by the way the sight works, I can understand why the grenadier would eyeball it and not fumble with that thing under fire. Combat isn't benchrest marksmanship.

I think he tried to say Toys for Big Boys... Boys for Big Boys sounds very... gay

Nick_Karatzides

11-17-2006, 03:45 PM

As for your question, nobody is able to claim himself as a veteran - except John J Rambo ofcourse. For your info, I'm dealing with "boys-for-big-boys" the last aprox 16 years. It doesn't make me an instant veteran with every weapon system on the planet Earth, but I think it's quite enough to let me say my word. Isn't it?I'm afraid, very afraid to ask what in Jebus' name that means...so I will refrain.Sorry man, I was trying to write TOYS-for-big-boys (meaning guns 'n' ammo ofcourse), but I guess that my fingers typed something else.

Already edited and correct my post. Sorry again...