2 Submarines, unknown origin, in near collision with cruiser

[Truthsayer]

http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=148&a=254318&previousRenderType=6

"WARNING": Article in Swedish.


Färja fick väja för ubåt


Stefan Lundberg

HELSINGFORS. Minst två, eventuellt flera ubåtar låg på Eckerölinjens bilfärja "Roslagens" urs på skärtorsdagen väster om Signilskär på Åland.
Befälhavaren Johan Bertell siktade ubåtarnas torn och radarscanner. Roslagen" med närmare 700 passagerare tvingades slå av maskinerna och gira kraftigt.

Den finska marinstaben har ännu inga uppgifter om ubåtarnas nationalitet. Finland har inga egna ubåtar.

- Den svenska marinen uppger att det inte var deras ubåtar, säger chefen för finska marinstaben, kommodor Hanno Strang till DN på tisdagen.

Övriga Östersjöländer som har ubåtar har marinstaben inte varit i kontakt med. Marinstaben ser med stort allvar på incidenten som skedde på finskt territorialvatten och dessutom inom det demilitariserade landskapet Ålands område.

Beredskapen att identifiera främmande inkräktare höjdes omedelbart längs hela kustområdet. Marinens egna fartyg låg för långt ifrån så man nöjde sig med att skicka ut gränsbevakningens fartyg till platsen. Då var ubåtarna försvunna.

Ubåtarna siktades klockan. 16.50 på skärtorsdagen när "Roslagen" var på väg från Grisslehamn mot Eckerö på Åland.

- Det syntes någonting stort på radarn nära fyren Solovjeva, men med blotta ögat såg man ingenting från bryggan. Med kikare kunde befälet se kamouflagefärgade gråa radarscanners och delar av tornen, säger Bo-Gustav Donning, säkerhetschef på Eckerölinjen. Befälhavaren Johan Bertell kan inte med säkerhet säga hur många ubåtar det var frågan om. Att det var ubåtar är han helt säker på.

- Men minst två var det, säger han.

Det är inte första gången Bertell siktat ubåtar, men tidigare har det skett när de legat i ytläge på internationellt vatten.

Enligt Bertell förelåg det ingen fara för passagerarna. Men när de främmande farkosterna låg bara 0,9 nautiska mil från "Roslagens" stäv beslöt Bertell gira och slå av maskinerna.

- Vi girade kraftigt, men det var inte dramatiskt, säger Bertell.

Färjan gled förbi ubåtarna på bara cirka 300 meters avstånd. Passagerarna informerades aldrig om incidenten.

Uppenbarligen hade ubåtarna kopplat på sina radarreflektorer för att synas. På radarskärmen såg de ut som tankfartyg. Enligt kommodor Hanno Strang bör sjöbevakningen i Mariehamn ha fått incidenten på band. På sjöbevakningsstationen vägrar biträdande områdesofficeren Jani Isometsä dock kommentera uppgiften.

- Om radarskärmens utslag har dokumenterats så ser man i alla fall bara antalet objekt och deras position, inte vilka de var, säger Strang.

Sikten var ypperlig och bilden på radarskärmen uppges ha varit perfekt. Sammanlagt tre person såg ubåtsdelarna från kommandobryggan.

- Vi har ingen orsak att betvivla deras vittnesmål, de är vana sjöfarare, säger Strang.
Enligt Strang är det mycket sällsynt att ubåtar upptäcks på finskt vatten.
Avlyssningsapparaturen längs Finlands kust sägs vara så känslig att samtal på nöjesbåtar längs kusten kan avlyssnas utan problem.

- Vi har inte vänt oss till de ryska myndigheterna. Det skulle kännas konstigt att ringa upp och fråga dem eller några av de andra staterna vars fartyg det kan gälla.

Med Sverige är det en helt annan sak. Vårt samarbete är så gott så vi ringer varandra och därifrån fick vi klart besked: det var inte svenska ubåtar.

Om nationaliteten kan identifieras är den sannolika följden en skarp not från utrikesministeriet.



Today an article was posted in Swedens biggest morning paper regarding an near collision between a large 'cruiser' (going between 2 ports, 5 decks high, danceclubs, shops..) and 2 submarines.

At 16.50 on thursday the crew sighted 2 large ships on radar, but nothing could visually bee seen at first. The ship was on it's way from Grisslehamn, Sweden, to Eckerö, åland, Finland.

Wich boniculars the towers and radarscanners was seen by the crew, that ordered their ship to full stop to avoid a collision. The ship then passed at 300meters distance.

It's not the first time surfacing subs are spotted by cruisers but they are always on international water - this time they wheren't. The subs where inside Finish waters and that is not allowed according to treates.

Since the subs wheren't Swedish and Finland doesn't have any subs of their own, it's not established from what country to two or more subs originated from.

Any articles of this in english can ofcourse be posted and I will update the first post with them.

[HELEX]

Strange...

[He219]

Crazy Ivan!

;)

[mustamato]

There has been these rumours that NATO trains on Swedish territorial water,
because the likelihood that the Swedes (or the Finns in this case) would start
to drop depth charges on the submarines is not that large. If the **** would
hit the fan they would just drop the depth charges nearby as a warning, kind
of a "we know that you are here".

http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/antenna/t2k/af/hkp4.jpg
In the 80´s the Swedish Navy dropped depth charges with these against
suspected Soviet submarines, or atleast nearby.

http://www.hogia.fi/ferrysystems/images/roslagen.jpg
M/S Roslagen, from were the possible submarines were seen.

[pAt]

Crazy Ivan!

;)


ok no more "hunt for the red october" for you ;)

[ikurinturbiini]

Here's the Finnish side:

According to Helsingin Sanomat (http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/tuoreet/artikkeli/1076152454778) today, a passenger ferry sighted and nearly collided with two unidentified subs in Finnish territorial waters. A Finnish Coast Guard vessel was sent to investigate but could not confirm the sighting. The nationality of the subs is unknown (Finland has no subs, all other coutries around the Baltic Sea operate some). The ferry came as close as 300 metres (900 feet) from the subs and from the bridge the crew could see their "masts" and some of their upper structures. Visibility was good.

So, what are you up to, svennejävlar or russkies? Just testing, or are we looking at another "Whiskey on the rocks"-type incident like the one off Karlskrona? rofl

As usual, the Russian military comes clean, and I'm quoting this verbatim:

Captain Anatoli Lobski from the Russian Baltic Fleet said on Tuesday that Russia has absolutely nothing to do with the incident: "We only have one seaworthy submarine in the Baltic Sea. It was on a training mission off Baltiskii (in Kaliningrad) on Thursday, and it is there now as well."

Nato says "no comment."

Sweden says "wasn't us."

Doesn't matter whether you believe the Russian captain or not. Either he is lying his arse off (no way, Russia wouldn't do that!!! :cantbeli: ) or he's just giving the facts. Either way, his comment is hilarious.

What do you think?

[fdt]

One day they convince us that they have the mightiest Navy on Baltic, another day (when some illegal activities are exposed) they say we are poor little pigs with only one seaworthy sub..... so it couldn't be us.
Different versions for different circumstances.

[Kingpin]

One day they convince us that they have the mightiest Navy on Baltic, another day (when some illegal activities are exposed) they say we are poor little pigs with only one seaworthy sub..... so it couldn't be us.
Different versions for different circumstances.

There is no controversy... 'Cause nobody here have anymore seaworthy subs :)))

[fdt]

One day they convince us that they have the mightiest Navy on Baltic, another day (when some illegal activities are exposed) they say we are poor little pigs with only one seaworthy sub..... so it couldn't be us.
Different versions for different circumstances.

There is no controversy... 'Cause nobody here have anymore seaworthy subs :)))I agree first part, there is no controversy, whose sub were there. As it comes to second part, You should rather update Your knowledge on the baltic countries' navies, but pls note that in this case "baltic countries" doesn't mean L+L+E.

Moriaki wsieh stran soediniajtes' :) .

[Kingpin]

One day they convince us that they have the mightiest Navy on Baltic, another day (when some illegal activities are exposed) they say we are poor little pigs with only one seaworthy sub..... so it couldn't be us.
Different versions for different circumstances.

There is no controversy... 'Cause nobody here have anymore seaworthy subs :)))I agree first part, there is no controversy, whose sub were there. As it comes to second part, You should rather update Your knowledge on the baltic countries' navies, but pls note that in this case "baltic countries" doesn't mean L+L+E.

Moriaki wsieh stran soediniajtes' :) .

It was a joke. But actually i'm not interested how much subs now on Baltic sea.

[Sergei]

If some **** happens over in Baltic sea that has to be the russians, no doubt about that. I mean who else? Ther got to be a secret russian sub lurking in the waters and threatening all those pitty little nations. rofl rofl rofl

[fdt]

If some **** happens over in Baltic sea that has to be the russians, no doubt about that. I mean who else? Ther got to be a secret russian sub lurking in the waters and threatening all those pitty little nations. rofl rofl roflYeah. They got caught by the ferry/cruiser with their pants down on other country's teritorial waters... so they can't be very scary... :lol:

[Russian Texan]

What do you think?

Who cares :cantbeli:

You have just proven what I have always suspected - there is not much going on in scandinavian and baltic countries.
You guys in Europe need to get a life....really....

May be it was a freaking UFO, did you think about that?

If you want to know what really happened, I recommend you to wach
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006LPEL.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

"Но русский язык - учи, пригодится...."

[Kingpin]

What do you think?

Who cares :cantbeli:

You have just proven what I have always suspected - there is not much going on in scandinavian and baltic countries.
You guys in Europe need to get a life....really....

May be it was a freaking UFO, did you think about that?

If you want to know what really happened, I recommend you to wach
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006LPEL.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
"Но русский язык - учи, пригодится...."

Ha ha ha!

Texan said pure truth. Answer is in this movie. Order now! rofl rofl rofl

[Javehn]

"выпьем за разум и чтоб здох маразм" (C)

[fdt]

What happened? Ohhh nothing happened... What is wrong in violating someone's border? BTW ask some submariner (if You know any) what is the meaning of such event: two subs in one place, surfaced on some country's teritorial waters... :lol: Subs never operate in close pairs (it's not the airforce :lol: ). If there are two, one must have fcuked smth or simply malfunctioned, second came to it's rescue or assistance. It was no green crew, because noone sends such to the "unlawful" patrols or training on someone's home waters :lol: . If You would try such a "exercises" on British or Yank waters there would be no ferry cruiser to come but some combatant instead. Go fishing suhoputniki...

[mustamato]

Who cares

Let´s hope that a Nordic gay S&M rapist makes a burglary at your place, when
you are home. Him making a unwelcome visit in your home and in your ass. Who cares.

[Elmo]

You have just proven what I have always suspected - there is not much going on in scandinavian and baltic countries.



True. Peace, stability and a welfare state. Boring, you might say.





You guys in Europe need to get a life....really....




How do you define "the life" you are referring to? By pain and suffering?
Patriotic fever? Struggle for survival? Tens of thousands of warheads?

Hey, I'm happy that a couple of unidentified subs is a big deal.

And afterwards I can go and pick some mushrooms...if it was autumn.

[Truthsayer]

Ach, don't let him get on your nervs...according to him the stranded sub might be 'nothing' as well, aswell as the repeated entries into our waters, with our defence-org dropping a lot of sink-carges to get them to move the hell out to international water. ;)

[Caraway]

Off-Topic
To Russian Texan:
I think this movie was far better than "Peculiarities of the National Fishing".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114055/ "Peculiarities of the National Hunt".

[Javehn]

Off-Topic
To Russian Texan:
I think this movie was far better than "Peculiarities of the National Fishing".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114055/ "Peculiarities of the National Hunt".

There is another movie : "Peruliarities of the national Sauna" . Way better movie :oops: ;)

[Russian Texan]

Who cares

Let´s hope that a Nordic gay S&M rapist makes a burglary at your place, when
you are home. Him making a unwelcome visit in your home and in your ass. Who cares.

Darling, I live in Texas....
Let's just say that burglaries and "unvelcome visits" are somewhat hazardous occupation here...
God bless America and the 2nd Amendment ;)

[Russian Texan]

Off-Topic
To Russian Texan:
I think this movie was far better than "Peculiarities of the National Fishing".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114055/ "Peculiarities of the National Hunt".

Рашн элефант из зэ бэст фрэнд финиш элефант...

The first one was great, but I have a soft spot for the "naval humour"
Семёнов, делай что хочешь... Но баркас мой со дна достань!!!

[fdt]

Next time it may happen that Finnish will do it "texan way". Instead of ferry such a thing may appear...
http://private.psi.com.pl/pmw/zagranic/finland/rauma/porvoo.jpg

[Russian Texan]

Next time it may happen that Finnish will do it "texan way". Instead of ferry such a thing may appear...


Finnish don't have the character/personality to do it "texan" or the "russian" way..... :)

Bland, non-destinct, boring and quite...

Please let's drop the subject, I have neither time, will nor any interest to conversate about Finland, Honduras, Poland, Sweden, Ethiopia and such...

[Sergei]

Next time it may happen that Finnish will do it "texan way". Instead of ferry such a thing may appear...
http://private.psi.com.pl/pmw/zagranic/finland/rauma/porvoo.jpg

You are scaring mother Russia with those stupid torpedo boats? You should really get a life there.
Don't ask for such things to get knocking up your backdoor.
http://www.militarism.ru/flot/ship_030.jpg

[mustamato]

Please let's drop the subject, I have neither time, will nor any interest to conversate about Finland, Honduras, Poland, Sweden, Ethiopia and such...

So why do you always read these threads and write in them? And how much
character does Ukrainians have? I don´t consider you as a Russian since you
are obviously not, you can´t even call yourself Ukrainian Texan. Well I don´t
blame you, I wouldn´t either.


http://www.militarism.ru/flot/ship_030.jpg

Probably old photo from the Soviet era. Today? Well they are sold to India, scrapped,
somewhere on the seabottom, or rusting in Murmansk and getting looted by former crews.

[fdt]

Next time it may happen that Finnish will do it "texan way". Instead of ferry such a thing may appear...


Finnish don't have the character/personality to do it "texan" or the "russian" way..... :)

Bland, non-destinct, boring and quite...

Please let's drop the subject, I have neither time, will nor any interest to conversate about Finland, Honduras, Poland, Sweden, Ethiopia and such....... and such... rofl rofl rofl You really don'tknow how to stop. rofl rofl rofl

Finnish may be boring, but after a few drinks they are quite fun...

[fdt]

Next time it may happen that Finnish will do it "texan way". Instead of ferry such a thing may appear...
http://private.psi.com.pl/pmw/zagranic/finland/rauma/porvoo.jpg

You are scaring mother Russia with those stupid torpedo boats? You should really get a life there.
Don't ask for such things to get knocking up your backdoor.
http://www.militarism.ru/flot/ship_030.jpgSergei, pls keep the land... This small mosquito can bite such a monster to death...

BTW playing the SN's at Baltic would be an act of idiocy.... like sailing the motorboat in a garden pool. Bigger means always better only if You mean Your pants contents.

[Russian Texan]

And how much character does Ukrainians have?
How does Ukraine factor into this?

I don´t consider you as a Russian since you
are obviously not
Who am I then? Let's see, I am Russian by birth and live in Texas now, hence - "Russian Texan"....it's really that simple

, you can´t even call yourself Ukrainian Texan.
Why would I?

somewhere on the seabottom, or rusting in Murmansk and getting looted by former crews.

[fdt]

Please let's drop the subject, I have neither time, will nor any interest to conversate about Finland, Honduras, Poland, Sweden, Ethiopia and such...

So why do you always read these threads and write in them? And how much
character does Ukrainians have? I don´t consider you as a Russian since you
are obviously not, you can´t even call yourself Ukrainian Texan. Well I don´t
blame you, I wouldn´t either.


http://www.militarism.ru/flot/ship_030.jpg

Probably old photo from the Soviet era. Today? Well they are sold to India, scrapped,
somewhere on the seabottom, or rusting in Murmansk and getting looted by former crews.Description on foto says that there are Typhoon class nuke subs in a Northern Fleet base. Pic was taken at the end of eighties...

[wiggle]

or just ...... blame canada

[mustamato]

http://www.militarism.ru/flot/ship_030.jpg

Probably old photo from the Soviet era. Today? Well they are sold to India, scrapped,
somewhere on the seabottom, or rusting in Murmansk and getting looted by former crews.Description on foto says that there are Typhoon class nuke subs in a Northern Fleet base. Pic was taken at the end of eighties...

Then I was almost right then :P

[fdt]

or just ...... blame canadaI bet it's Latvia, this only could be Latvia.
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/7066/lode.jpg

Cool ship, ain't it?

[ikurinturbiini]

What do you think?

Who cares :cantbeli:

You have just proven what I have always suspected - there is not much going on in scandinavian and baltic countries.
You guys in Europe need to get a life....really....

May be it was a freaking UFO, did you think about that?

If you want to know what really happened, I recommend you to wach
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006LPEL.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

"?? ??????? ???? - ???, ??????????...."

Enter a Russian who plays down the incident and labels others as no-life paranoids. An incursion into Russian waters (what's left of them, not much) would have you scream bloody murder. The ferry should have rammed the subs and let herrings deal with the rest.

PS Don't be afraid to write your quips in English. Online translators sort of take the fun out of using Russian, doesn't it? Besides, using any language
other than English sucks moose's spheres. But while we're at it: Käännä tämä jos osaat, sinä visvasyyläinen russakan äpärälapsi ja silmäpuoli ameeba. Pieren sinun suuntaasi.

PPS What's the film about? Looks like fun to me.

Take care now, you hear. ;)

[ikurinturbiini]

Please let's drop the subject, I have neither time, will nor any interest to conversate about Finland, Honduras, Poland, Sweden, Ethiopia and such... ...Russia...

[FDF_Hemppis]

Next time it may happen that Finnish will do it "texan way". Instead of ferry such a thing may appear...
http://private.psi.com.pl/pmw/zagranic/finland/rauma/porvoo.jpg

Now I didn't serve in the Navy, but I imagine they wouldn't send a Rauma-class missile boat against a sub would they? Isn't that the job of Pohjanmaa and Hämeenmaa-class?

And any Russian nuclear missile sub is welcome to sail in the Finnish coast since it's so shallow you'd probably have to run it on the surface anyway, and we would have no choice but capture it for ourselves, and sell it to the highest bidder... j/k p-)

[fdt]

Next time it may happen that Finnish will do it "texan way". Instead of ferry such a thing may appear...
http://private.psi.com.pl/pmw/zagranic/finland/rauma/porvoo.jpg

Now I didn't serve in the Navy, but I imagine they wouldn't send a Rauma-class missile boat against a sub would they? Isn't that the job of Pohjanmaa and Hämeenmaa-class?

And any Russian nuclear missile sub is welcome to sail in the Finnish coast since it's so shallow you'd probably have to run it on the surface anyway, and we would have no choice but capture it for ourselves, and sell it to the highest bidder... j/k p-)

Pohjanmaa minelayer/training ship
Armament: 1 57mm DP, 2 40 mm, 2 dual 23 mm, 2 12.7 mm MG, 2 RBU-120 ASW RL, 2 DC rails, 120 mines
Sonar: Simrad hull
Speed: 19 kn

Hameenmaa class minelayers/support ships
Armament: 6-cell launcher for Mistral SAM or 1 dual 23 mm, 2 40 mm, 2 dual 23 mm, 2 RBU-1200 ASW RL, 2 DC racks, 100-150 mines
Sonar: Simrad hull
Speed: 19 kn

Rauma class missile boats
Armament: 6 RBS-15SF SSM, 1 6-cell launcher for Mistral SAM or 1 twin 23mm, 1 40 mm, 2 12.7 mm MG, 4 LLS-920 ASW RL, 1 RC rack
Sonar: Simrad Subsea toadfish sonar
Speed: 30 kn

In fact all of them can engage subs, but considering the speed I would take Rauma. RBU-120 and 1200 are russian ASW rocket systems...

[FDF_Hemppis]

Thanks for correcting, I wasn't really sure about those anti-sub weapons. But thanks to these Forums I now know that too! woot

[mustamato]

And let us not forget the Hamina-class, of which 6(?) is going to be delivered
to the Finnish navy, it was called "Rauma 2000"-class when it was still a
project, so it´s basically the same ****, but just a little more modern,
I don´t know what kind of weapons it has though, but I assume that they will
be equipped with the South-African Umkhonto-IR SAM´s. Modern versions of the
RBS-15 SSM and so forth.

http://www.mil.fi/merivoimat/esikunta/toim_kalusto_hamina.jpg
Hamina-class fast missile boat

[Caraway]

I just watched the news on TV about this submarine incident. It is quite possible that those subs were gathering intelligence about Russia's harbours that have a keyrole in Russia's oilexport. A NATO subs perhaps?

[fdt]

I just watched the news on TV about this submarine incident. It is quite possible that those subs were gathering intelligence about Russia's harbours that have a keyrole in Russia's oilexport. A NATO subs perhaps?What Russian baltic harbours have a key role in oil export? Any quantities You can name?
Alands are quite far from the nearest Russian harbour.
Who would send two subs for reconaissance at once...? More probable option is that: one sub was spying or exercising and after a collision or accident another came for rescue from a .... nearby port.

[Caraway]

What Russian baltic harbours have a key role in oil export? Any quantities You can name? Alands are quite far from the nearest Russian harbour. The Russians have recently buid two major harbors near Petersburg, one in Koivisto (a Finnish name) Primorski and one in bay of Batareinaja. OK, those harbours don't have a major role yet, but they will have and that's why the possible reconnaisance idea. Remember I did not invent this scenario, it was on the news and told by some strategy specialists from FDF. It is speculation.
OK, subs were spotted near Åland (actually they were not in Finnish territorial waters) but it does not tell anything where they were coming from. Going to Sweden perhaps?


Who would send two subs for reconaissance at once...? More probable option is that: one sub was spying or exercising and after a collision or accident another came for rescue from a .... nearby port. How the hell should I know who would sent 2 subs to do such thing? Both subs were able to move. Why there would have been a need for a second sub to "rescue" another one?

[Shadow]

Grr i told them , i don't know how many times, don't play in the open sea.
Damn the submarine comanders of my private army are such idiots!:D
I also have some SAS mercenarys.

[Shadow]

Grr i told them , i don't know how many times, don't play in the open sea.
Damn those submarine comanders of my private army are such idiots!:D

[fdt]

OK, subs were spotted near Åland (actually they were not in Finnish territorial waters) but it does not tell anything where they were coming from. Going to Sweden perhaps?
Well if the subs weren't spotted at Finnish teritorial waters.... then.... WHAT THE FCUK IS THIS THREAD ALL ABOUT!? :cantbeli:

Sorry to all Ruskies for bitc*hing at their subs habits... :hug: I see no point in discussing the fact that somone saw 2 subs on sea...

Once i saw 5 or six of them at once... big deal.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8227/Panorama2.jpg

[Truthsayer]

Check the water-lines - they wheren't at internationel waters.

[Caraway]

Check the water-lines - they wheren't at internationel waters. There were some officers from Finnish Frontier Guard in the news that said those alledged submarines were not in Finnish territorial waters.

[Sergeant]

Not forgetting that Åland is demilitarized zone.

Anyway, if they were Russian subs, I wouldn't be too worried, except the fact that they might blow up any day and cause some serious enviroment catastrophes.

[PRKL]

Or they will hit a rock on Swedish coast just like one did 1981!
http://www.compunews.com/s139/sp2.htm
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/research/AreaStudies/Tunander.htm

[Caraway]

Or they will hit a rock on Swedish coast just like one did 1981!
http://www.compunews.com/s139/sp2.htm
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/research/AreaStudies/Tunander.htm
Thanks for the excellent links!!! Btw. you should also remember that those submarines near to Åland were possibly Swedish submarines (or NATO), not Russian (possibly).

[ikurinturbiini]

Check the water-lines - they wheren't at internationel waters. There were some officers from Finnish Frontier Guard in the news that said those alledged submarines were not in Finnish territorial waters.

Got a link? I don't get Finnish TV here.

MTV3 (http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/kotimaa.shtml?2004/04/213351) says that according to a Swedish source, submarine activity in the area is definitely politically motivated, and that the historical nature of the waters around Åland always requires subs to obtain permit from Helsinki to operate there, international waters or not. Åland Sound is one of the four (!) existing "historical waterways" in the world (don't ask me what that means - UNESCO perhaps?) I don't know if a permit is required from Swedish subs, probably not, but THEY would not have needed to run, hide and lie about it.

If the subs were NATO, then the Finnish military would have been notified, and for getting spotted, the sub commanders would get a severe bollocking. Then the issue would just die quietly.

So, Finnish or international waters? In any case, they were causing a hazard, which makes the whole thing inexcusable.

Time for a joke, sub-related. You remember when Kursk went down and the Russians claimed it was because of a collision with a foreign sub, British or American. Well, not long after that, there was a huge fire in the Ostankino TV tower (Moscow). The Russian explanation: "The fire was caused by a collision with a foreign TV tower, British or American."

[fdt]

Got a link? I don't get Finnish TV here.

"

Where RU from?

[Sergei]

[
Time for a joke, sub-related. You remember when Kursk went down and the Russians claimed it was because of a collision with a foreign sub, British or American. Well, not long after that, there was a huge fire in the Ostankino TV tower (Moscow). The Russian explanation: "The fire was caused by a collision with a foreign TV tower, British or American."

You find something funny in people's deaths, sicko? Care to tell me where you are from so I can mock your president too?

[ikurinturbiini]

Got a link? I don't get Finnish TV here.

"

Where RU from?

I'm from Helsinki, Finland but I don't live there now. Suffice to say I'm far, far away, but I try to stay on top of current issues. I try to watch YLE and MTV3 news over the net but connections here are ****ty. I manage to get Finnish Radio news, however.

[GazB]

I guess it isn't possible that the two subs might have nothing to do with each other?

A British and a US sub for example?

BTW the comments about violation of territorial waters are incredibly amusing... keep them coming...[/quote]

[ikurinturbiini]

You find something funny in people's deaths, sicko? Care to tell me where you are from so I can mock your president too?

You're in Ukraine, but I bet you're Russian. You display the common characteristics of all the resident forum Russians I've encountered so far: short fuse, wet gunpowder.

Mocking the president is legal in Finland, unlike in ex-Sov banana republics, so go right ahead. Don't expect anyone to give a ****e, though.

Dying is not funny, ever. The way Russian authorities NEVER tell the truth about ANYTHING is humongously humorous. Sorry if my little joke offended you.

[Truthsayer]

I guess it isn't possible that the two subs might have nothing to do with each other?

A British and a US sub for example?

BTW the comments about violation of territorial waters are incredibly amusing... keep them coming...

Side by side? Sure, if it was ajoint NATO-adventure (be that it may be that they where out to help one of the subs).


I'm not familiar by Finnish goverment and their stance on NATO-subs in their waters but ("not to violate OPSEV" ;) )NATO-subs have entered and used out waters as training-ground and scouting-rtreat-ground on number of occassions - all pre-noted and all know by the top command within the Swedish military.

[Saranof]

Something just tells me it's not the swedes, not NATO, so we've only got one option left then..

[Marmot1]

Something just tells me it's not the swedes, not NATO, so we've only got one option left then..
Poland :-) we have subs too... but sending them there make no sense to me... we do not have bussines over there...

BTW why noone accused Germans?

[Sergei]

You find something funny in people's deaths, sicko? Care to tell me where you are from so I can mock your president too?

You're in Ukraine, but I bet you're Russian. You display the common characteristics of all the resident forum Russians I've encountered so far: short fuse, wet gunpowder.
By getting all the Russians here in one bunch you just summed up your sorry worldview. Generalization is the best indication for an imbecile.
Care to tell me something about Finnish fuse, dry powder?



Mocking the president is legal in Finland, unlike in ex-Sov banana republics, so go right ahead. Don't expect anyone to give a ****e, though.

So go mock your president, you ****.


Dying is not funny, ever. The way Russian authorities NEVER tell the truth about ANYTHING is humongously humorous. Sorry if my little joke offended you.
Show me at least one government, which tells the truth about anything. And your little joke didn't offend me, it just showed what a dumbass you really are.

[ikurinturbiini]

You find something funny in people's deaths, sicko? Care to tell me where you are from so I can mock your president too?

You're in Ukraine, but I bet you're Russian. You display the common characteristics of all the resident forum Russians I've encountered so far: short fuse, wet gunpowder.
By getting all the Russians here in one bunch you just summed up your sorry worldview. Generalization is the best indication for an imbecile.
Care to tell me something about Finnish fuse, dry powder?



Mocking the president is legal in Finland, unlike in ex-Sov banana republics, so go right ahead. Don't expect anyone to give a ****e, though.

So go mock your president, you ****.


Dying is not funny, ever. The way Russian authorities NEVER tell the truth about ANYTHING is humongously humorous. Sorry if my little joke offended you.
Show me at least one government, which tells the truth about anything. And your little joke didn't offend me, it just showed what a dumbass you really are.

I rest my case.

[mustamato]

Just to add another possibility.

http://www.mil.se/index.php?lang=S&c=news&id=21282
"The U-boat HMS Västergötland back from exercise in Great Britain"

http://www.1ubflj.mil.se/images/local/vastergotland.jpg
Two U-boats of Västergötland-class