Archive Thread 10- Question on new USMC sniper rifle.

[LRPV]

Anyone here know of the species of this Blaser rifle? I know the civilian target variants but not this model. All I have is that it has inter-changeability between 7.62 NATO and .338 Lapua Magnum. It would be interesting to know if the Marines are changing their glass.

sniff...sniiff...sniffin' around at what the others players have...

[ShakesFIST]

I didnt know the marines were getting new sniper rifles...

[LRPV]

Does that mean I score a choccy frog?

Source is an Australian sniper recently working with USMC. Going on this feedback is all I have at this stage so I was hoping someone in the USMC Scout/Sniper community would let some of the cat out of the bag...any information on a contract like this is unlikely to be of a classified/restricted nature.

[jagermeister]

marines are using the M40A3 as far as glass goes there using the new Schmidt & Bender. Good system i highly doubt there changing anything, a blaser offers nothing new thats needed.

[Icarus1]

I don't think they're changing in the near future. The M40 is a reliable and proved rifle, and the schmidt & bender scope is just awesome (but as expensive as good). The Blaser is a great system, but it won't change much in the performance, because the shooters error will be bigger than the performance of the rifle.

[DeltaWhisky58]

I assume you refer to the:

Blaser Tactical 2 system or similar based on the R93 barrel/action combination. This has interchangeable barrels in 7.62x51mm; .300 Win Mag & .338 Lapua Mag. It can also be barrelled in 5.56x45mm

http://www.blaserrifles.com/typo3temp/pics/t_52419e9c07.jpg
Blaser Tactical 2 (http://www.blaserrifles.com/Tactical_2.809.0.html?&L=1)

As to whether the USMC in interested in this rifle, I'd look to a more reliable source than rumour control.

[JoaMei]

The Blaser is good for long range target shooting and Police Sniping, but its not tough enough for military needs afaik.

[DeltaWhisky58]

The Blaser is good for long range target shooting and Police Sniping, but its not tough enough for military needs afaik.

I'd go with that - compare it to the Accuracy International products and there is no contest. The Blaser system is just too complicated and vulnerable for extended military use.

[Nrjetix]

UK armed forces are currently at the tender stage for a new sniper rifle to replace the L96. One of the 3 contenders is a Blaser rifle I believe. AI are also submitting a rifle to the competition but if I remember rightly the 3rd contender (which slips my mind at the moment) is the current favourite.

[DeltaWhisky58]

UK armed forces are currently at the tender stage for a new sniper rifle to replace the L96. One of the 3 contenders is a Blaser rifle I believe. AI are also submitting a rifle to the competition but if I remember rightly the 3rd contender (which slips my mind at the moment) is the current favourite.

Do you have anything more concrete, or is this just rumour like the first post in this thread?

[Nrjetix]

No, this is good (UNCLAS) gen. I cant access the source info today. Will post a thread on the subject next week unless someone beats me to it.

[Ravage]

marines are using the M40A3

But you can still find photos of snipers with the good old M40A1 p-)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Bearing in mind the problems encountered with the R93 action in the sporting world. I'd be very suspect of this in a military situation.

[Ravage]

That is I think the best way of saying: the more its complicated, the less effective it is.

[DeltaWhisky58]

That is I think the best way of saying: the more its complicated, the less effective it is.

My feelings exactly - the L96 and the M40 rifles are both well combat tested, do the job extremely well. Why replace them.

I have used sporting versions of the Blaser rifle and they are hideously complicated and ****e to problems. I certainly would no wish to rely on such a weapon when there are proven tools like the L96 & M40 available.

[Ravage]

the L96 and the M40 rifles

somehow I knew you are going to mention that one p-)

[LRPV]

Dw58, Point taken about
'rumour control' , however, if I wish to continue posting here I would not put my call-sign to a dodgy source. My source is indirectly USMC equivelent of our training command.

Please note your PM

As for your experiences with the said rifle I would welcome your comments in detail, not as a challenge to your credibility, (even if you do wear a skirt), but as a professional analysis. I have read sniper.com etc such sites and I am always willing to read another view.

rds
lrpv

[LRPV]

HS Precision m2000


Look it up gents....I own one.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

From the photos I seen, the marines are getting the SR25/M110 SASS.

[jagermeister]

those are not replacing the M40s. they are substituting them in urban areas sense faster fallow up shots are more important then the long range capabilities of the M40.

[JTAR7242]

those are not replacing the M40s. they are substituting them in urban areas sense faster fallow up shots are more important then the long range capabilities of the M40.There are a lot of reasons the SR25 has gained more than a few proponents among the S/S community.

[jagermeister]

dont get me wrong bud SR25s are awsome but there not replacing the M40s with them.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Surely the SR25 is a DMR and not a true sniper weapon.

[maw]

why'd you say that? it's certainly accurate enough and it's got the legs to deliver out to 1,000 yards.


Surely the SR25 is a DMR and not a true sniper weapon.

[22.5degrees]

The Canadian Army trialed some new rifles for their Scout/sniper units about 3 years back. The blaser LRS2 or "tactical 2" was one of them. During evaulation the straight pull bolt design failed and drove the bolt into the shooters eye causing serious injuries. Needless to say the Blaser was removed from the trials. That being said, I do(well did know a Marine sniper, he was killed about 3 months ago during a traffic stop working for the CHP) that used a Blaser LRS2 in .300 win mag for all his private shooting outside the CORPS.

I shot many and sold many more to folks. I never liked it. Our rental gun was chambered for 308 and only shot indoors, and it had many issues. Biggest issue was a hot action or dirty action failing to cycle. Often times the bolt would require serious force to open; including kicking it.


22.5

[jagermeister]

soooo your not saying it would wip the **** out of the ol M40?

[deagle]

aint that the r93 in the "hitman" games ?

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

My feelings exactly - the L96 and the M40 rifles are both well combat tested, do the job extremely well. Why replace them.

I have used sporting versions of the Blaser rifle and they are hideously complicated and ****e to problems. I certainly would no wish to rely on such a weapon when there are proven tools like the L96 & M40 available.

"complicated" and "rifle" should never fall in the same sentence especially not back to back

[Twombly]

Surely the SR25 is a DMR and not a true sniper weapon.
I agree with that. Semi-automatic infantry rifle with scope will be always a DMR and not a sniper rifle.

btw. the SR25 is called MK11 by marines.
http://www.sweb.cz/twombly/Weapons/MK11.jpg

[DeltaWhisky58]

The Canadian Army trialed some new rifles for their Scout/sniper units about 3 years back. The blaser LRS2 or "tactical 2" was one of them. During evaulation the straight pull bolt design failed and drove the bolt into the shooters eye causing serious injuries. Needless to say the Blaser was removed from the trials. That being said, I do(well did know a Marine sniper, he was killed about 3 months ago during a traffic stop working for the CHP) that used a Blaser LRS2 in .300 win mag for all his private shooting outside the CORPS.

I shot many and sold many more to folks. I never liked it. Our rental gun was chambered for 308 and only shot indoors, and it had many issues. Biggest issue was a hot action or dirty action failing to cycle. Often times the bolt would require serious force to open; including kicking it.


22.5

The problems you describe here are exactly what I have experienced with an R93, and has been the problem of many European hunters who bought their sporting rifles on the same action. There was - I believe - a massive factory recall of these actions about two years ago for safety issues.

[UDTWOLF]

M40A1 was what most Marine Scout Snipers used in 2003 in Iraq and Afghan before that. They shortly after got the A3 which is a great weapon in my opinion and will not be replaced as said before. Stoners are great for urban environments and are still just as powerful but is not a bolt action weapon which will enable you to get more shots off quicker as already stated before. You can never go wrong with a .50 cal though!lol

Myself I like to go with a M1A1 SOCOM 16 , or the stoner personally the are lighter and better for urban areas.

[Ravage]

Myself I like to go with a M1A1 SOCOM 16

never heard of it :-(

[UDTWOLF]

It's a remodified version of an M14 just shorter and more compact. I'll try to post a pic of it for you

[DeltaWhisky58]

It's a remodified version of an M14 just shorter and more compact. I'll try to post a pic of it for you

Presumably not officially adopted by the US Military then?

[UDTWOLF]

Not by the actual military but that of specific units. Mainly US SEALs.

[UDTWOLF]

Here you go, this is a nice weapon a very good with accuracy. It's a 7.62 and I have enjoyed it.

[ClydeFrog]

The really serious incidents with the Blaser action (where shooters got literally smashed their face in and lost an eye) afaik all happened to reloaders... but still I would never want to use a system that produced such fatal results neither in the military, nor in law enforcement, nor private.

[DeltaWhisky58]

The really serious incidents with the Blaser action (where shooters got literally smashed their face in and lost an eye) afaik all happened to reloaders... but still I would never want to use a system that produced such fatal results neither in the military, nor in law enforcement, nor private.

Whatever - this should not happen with any rifles when used with properly re-loaded ammo. Tolerances should be such that rifles are capable of being fired with grossly over-powered ammo as should have been assured by the European CIP proof standards.

[Ravage]

Isnt the 14 issued for snipers only ? or is it used by all SEALs ?

[UDTWOLF]

the snipers do use the M14 still mostly the army but the SOCOM 16 was made specifically for units in SOCOM and since have been picked up by a lot of SEALs and a lot of SWAT snipers. It's not like they replaced their other ones they just have another one that they use and it's not their primary. This weapon I think is right up their with an AK-47 as far as not having to clean it as much, durability, etc. AK number one weapon since WWII SOCOM 16 number 2 in my book.

[Chops]

the snipers do use the M14 still mostly the army but the SOCOM 16 was made specifically for units in SOCOM and since have been picked up by a lot of SEALs and a lot of SWAT snipers. It's not like they replaced their other ones they just have another one that they use and it's not their primary. This weapon I think is right up their with an AK-47 as far as not having to clean it as much, durability, etc. AK number one weapon since WWII SOCOM 16 number 2 in my book.

Which SEAL Teams have adopted the SOCOM 16?
When did NSW adopt the SOCOM 16?
In fact, when did USSOCOM adopt the SOCOM 16?
'A lot of SWAT snipers'- which teams? And why would any of them adopt a chopped CQBised M14 as a sniper system?

Your opinion of this weapon is of course based on your own extensive experience yes?

[UDTWOLF]

Which SEAL Teams have adopted the SOCOM 16?
When did NSW adopt the SOCOM 16?
In fact, when did USSOCOM adopt the SOCOM 16?
'A lot of SWAT snipers'- which teams? And why would any of them adopt a chopped CQBised M14 as a sniper system?

Your opinion of this weapon is of course based on your own extensive experience yes?
1.) No SEAL team has fully adopted it from what I know right now but ST1 was doing the trial periods with it and using it in Iraq.
2.) Not the entire NSW just a couple of teams have been trying it out.
3.) USSOCOM has not adopted it but teams 1 & 5 were trying them out. This was in 2004.
4.) LA FBI SWAT division
5.) Because of the accuracy, power, and durability of this weapon as well as being compact and easier to manuever with and carry. It is still able to get the job done very effectively if not better than it's counter parts in the more traditional sniper rifles.
6.) Yes this is based upon my extensive experience with this weapon. Even with the shortness of this weapon it doesn't effect it like you may think. It is still powerful and accurate. It's just a remodified version of the M14 with better modifications.

[Beowulf]

the snipers do use the M14 still mostly the army but the SOCOM 16 was made specifically for units in SOCOM and since have been picked up by a lot of SEALs and a lot of SWAT snipers. It's not like they replaced their other ones they just have another one that they use and it's not their primary. This weapon I think is right up their with an AK-47 as far as not having to clean it as much, durability, etc. AK number one weapon since WWII SOCOM 16 number 2 in my book.

Is the SOCOM 16 for sale to civvies?

It sounds pretty awesome

[Beowulf]

3.) USSOCOM has not adopted it but teams 1 & 5 were trying them out. This was in 2004.


Are USSOCOM teams one and five the Marine teams I was hearing about?

[UDTWOLF]

Yes, it is. you can go to springfield armory. It sales at around 1.750 but if you can find a dealer to order one as I did I got it for 1,350.

[UDTWOLF]

Are USSOCOM teams one and five the Marine teams I was hearing about?

No, are you thinking of MARSOC that was integrated into SOCOM back in 2003.

[Beowulf]

No, are you thinking of MARSOC that was integrated into SOCOM back in 2003.

oh, ok. Which teams are 1 and 5 then?

[UDTWOLF]

SEAL TEAMS 1 & 5
MARSOC is a completely different group made up of the best Marines and sailors from Force Recon & Recon Bn.

[Beowulf]

SEAL TEAMS 1 & 5
MARSOC is a completely different group made up of the best Marines and sailors from Force Recon & Recon Bn.

ok cool, I moderate the equipment and gear, and airsoft sections.

Have the marines been using the socom 16 too or just the socom seal teams?

[UDTWOLF]

No the Marines have not been. They don't even use an M14 at all. They stick with the M40 mainly.

[Beowulf]

No the Marines have not been. They don't even use an M14 at all. They stick with the M40 mainly.

Have you heard of any other units using it? Any rumors that they might make it official?

[LaoSexMachine]

No the Marines have not been. They don't even use an M14 at all. They stick with the M40 mainly.

Are you talking about S/S? Or Marines Corps in general?

[UDTWOLF]

Have you heard of any other units using it? Any rumors that they might make it official?

No I haven't heard of any other units using them or any rumors on making it official. If it were up to me I would say yes though. I am sold on it and I take it to the range when we do training all the time. I do know that they were in very high demand for awhile there after coming out and you couldn't even buy one as a civilian because of the military and government agencies placing such high orders for them. That is also why they raised the price.

[Chops]

1.) No SEAL team has fully adopted it from what I know right now but ST1 was doing the trial periods with it and using it in Iraq.
2.) Not the entire NSW just a couple of teams have been trying it out.
3.) USSOCOM has not adopted it but teams 1 & 5 were trying them out. This was in 2004.
4.) LA FBI SWAT division
5.) Because of the accuracy, power, and durability of this weapon as well as being compact and easier to manuever with and carry. It is still able to get the job done very effectively if not better than it's counter parts in the more traditional sniper rifles.
6.) Yes this is based upon my extensive experience with this weapon. Even with the shortness of this weapon it doesn't effect it like you may think. It is still powerful and accurate. It's just a remodified version of the M14 with better modifications.

1) You are talking the Springfield M1A SOCOM 16 yes? If so I find it surprising that ST1 are trialing it when I have seen them, more recntly then 2004, using the Mark 14 Mod 0 EBR operationally in the box.
2) Again surprising due to the apparant success of the EBR.
3) Ditto.
4) Again very surprising. Last imagery I saw of FBI SWAT out of the LA Field Office they were using MP5s and M4s. The way the Bureau works, I understood that individual Field Offices have difficulty accessing non standard weapons and equipment. They also tend to follow HRT's lead. Hadn't heard about HRT adopting the SOCOM either.
5) But it has a 16" barrel. This isn't especially condusive to the levels of accuracy LE snipers require. I'm having a lot of difficulty understanding why LE snipers would go for a short barrel CQBised battle rifle as a viable sniping platform.
6) Extensive experience on the range? On the two way range?

Many thanks for your time

[UDTWOLF]

Are you talking about S/S? Or Marines Corps in general?

I'm talking about SS, I'm sure that they have to have some laying around somewhere on base though. But also as far as I know the Marines period dont use them or even have any in the armory. I called around asking in 04 to try and get some 20 round mags for it and not one armory on Camp Pendleton had any.

[LaoSexMachine]

I'm talking about SS, I'm sure that they have to have some laying around somewhere on base though. But also as far as I know the Marines period dont use them or even have any in the armory. I called around asking in 04 to try and get some 20 round mags for it and not one armory on Camp Pendleton had any.

..........................................

[Chops]

I called around asking in 04 to try and get some 20 round mags for it and not one armory on Camp Pendleton had any.

So you're a Marine? Good to have another of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children on the boards! :)

[UDTWOLF]

1) You are talking the Springfield M1A SOCOM 16 yes? If so I find it surprising that ST1 are trialing it when I have seen them, more recntly then 2004, using the Mark 14 Mod 0 EBR operationally in the box.
2) Again surprising due to the apparant success of the EBR.
3) Ditto.
4) Again very surprising. Last imagery I saw of FBI SWAT out of the LA Field Office they were using MP5s and M4s. The way the Bureau works, I understood that individual Field Offices have difficulty accessing non standard weapons and equipment. They also tend to follow HRT's lead. Hadn't heard about HRT adopting the SOCOM either.
5) But it has a 16" barrel. This isn't especially condusive to the levels of accuracy LE snipers require. I'm having a lot of difficulty understanding why LE snipers would go for a short barrel CQBised battle rifle as a viable sniping platform.
6) Extensive experience on the range? On the two way range?

Many thanks for your time

1.) Are you sure that it wasn't the SOCOM16? They do all types of modifications to it so it may look different or sometimes because of the modifying they change the name.
2.) Yes they had success with the EBR but it may just be like i said in number 1.
3.)
4.) Yes they do use the MP5 and M4's along with .45 for a pistol, their snipers atleast the ones I worked with used the stoner and had a large order in for this weapon at that time.
5.) I'm telling you bro the accuracy is great with this gun even with the length.
6.) Experience on the range yes, in field, and on deployment.
No problem....

[Beowulf]

My buddy wants to join the Marines, he's going to the recruiter after he graduates.

He wants to be a USMC medic, but I told him to try and be a sniper. Any idea what he can expect if he wants to do either of those jobs?

[Chops]

1) Yep pretty sure it was the EBR.
2) Yes I guess it may be but why wouldn't they call the Mark 14 the EBR and type classify the SOCOM 16? Still this is the Navy right? p-)
4) Oh okay you've worked with FBI SWAT out of LA? I was going from some imagery so fair enough man, if you've seen it on the streets.
5) Still surprised by the accuracy thing but I've never played with it. I thought the whole point of the SOCOM 16 was as a 'patrol carbine' or as a CQB styled battle rifle? I wouldn't have thought 16" does it on anything over 150-200 metres?
6) You've deployed with the SOCOM 16? Sandbox or Astan bro?

cheers man



1.) Are you sure that it wasn't the SOCOM16? They do all types of modifications to it so it may look different or sometimes because of the modifying they change the name.
2.) Yes they had success with the EBR but it may just be like i said in number 1.
3.)
4.) Yes they do use the MP5 and M4's along with .45 for a pistol, their snipers atleast the ones I worked with used the stoner and had a large order in for this weapon at that time.
5.) I'm telling you bro the accuracy is great with this gun even with the length.
6.) Experience on the range yes, in field, and on deployment.
No problem....

[UDTWOLF]

1) Yep pretty sure it was the EBR.
2) Yes I guess it may be but why wouldn't they call the Mark 14 the EBR and type classify the SOCOM 16? Still this is the Navy right? p-)
4) Oh okay you've worked with FBI SWAT out of LA? I was going from some imagery so fair enough man, if you've seen it on the streets.
5) Still surprised by the accuracy thing but I've never played with it. I thought the whole point of the SOCOM 16 was as a 'patrol carbine' or as a CQB styled battle rifle? I wouldn't have thought 16" does it on anything over 150-200 metres?
6) You've deployed with the SOCOM 16? Sandbox or Astan bro?

cheers man
6.) Sandbox, Yeah I have been all around over in that region too many times, but it won't stop me from going again.lol

[UDTWOLF]

My buddy wants to join the Marines, he's going to the recruiter after he graduates.

He wants to be a USMC medic, but I told him to try and be a sniper. Any idea what he can expect if he wants to do either of those jobs?

Well if he wants to be a a medic for the Marines he will have to go to the Navy and become a corpsman. The Marines do not have medics. But as a corpsman you have the choice to be with Marines or Navy and every unit in between. It's a good way to go to be a corpsman you have a lot of options.

[Beowulf]

6.) Sandbox, Yeah I have been all around over in that region too many times, but it won't stop me from going again.lol

haha LOL, I guess it gets pretty old after a while.

[Chops]

Down south man?

Who you with bro? Guessing if you're not Marines then you must be UDT or with the Teams??

[Beowulf]

Well if he wants to be a a medic for the Marines he will have to go to the Navy and become a corpsman. The Marines do not have medics. But as a corpsman you have the choice to be with Marines or Navy and every unit in between. It's a good way to go to be a corpsman you have a lot of options.

oh ok, are you a corpsman?

[UDTWOLF]

8 Years in the Navy & yes I am a corpsman

[Beowulf]

8 Years in the Navy & yes I am a corpsman

So what kind of options will my buddy have? Can he become a seal?

[Chops]

Cool but you gotta be doing something high speed right? If you've taken one of those SOCOM beauties into the badlands? p-)

I have heard corpsmen get a LOT of opportunities. Beo you should encourage your buddy. I assume Navy corpsmen are also attached to the Teams?

[UDTWOLF]

So what kind of options will my buddy have? Can he become a seal?

If he is looking to be in special units then here is what he can be in....
SEALs, EOD, SAR, SWCC, FORCE RECON, RECON BN., SCOUT SNIPERS, FSSG, DIVISION, DIVE TECH., MARSOC , ETC.
I'm telling you bro you can be with any of them. If he goes to the Marines he will be Fleet Marine Force or green side as we call it. He can work in a hospital, clinic, or any of the units listed above. It'a a great rate to pick.

[Beowulf]

Cool but you gotta be doing something high speed right? If you've taken one of those SOCOM beauties into the badlands? p-)

I have heard corpsmen get a LOT of opportunities. Beo you should encourage your buddy. I assume Navy corpsmen are also attached to the Teams?

Yeah, I'm gonna try and get him on here so he can learn more about what it's really like out there.

[H2O MAN]

Here you go, this is a nice weapon a very good with accuracy. It's a 7.62 and I have enjoyed it.

I'm sure the SOCOM 16 is a civilian only rifle not used by any military.
You may be thinking of the MK14 MOD 0 EBR the SEALs and others use.


Pictured left to right...

U.S.N. MK14 MOD 0 SEI in a prototype TROY MCS stock.
Crazy Horse U.S.N. MK14 MOD 0 SEI in a SAGE EBR stock.
Springfield Armory, Inc. SOCOM 16 in a USGI Birch stock.
ArmaLite AR-10A4 carbine

http://www.athenswater.com/images/GROUPSHOT1%20024.jpg

[Beowulf]

If he is looking to be in special units then here is what he can be in....
SEALs, EOD, SAR, SWCC, FORCE RECON, RECON BN., SCOUT SNIPERS, FSSG, DIVISION, DIVE TECH., MARSOC , ETC.
I'm telling you bro you can be with any of them. If he goes to the Marines he will be Fleet Marine Force or green side as we call it. He can work in a hospital, clinic, or any of the units listed above. It'a a great rate to pick.

holy crap that's a lot of letters...

Are you gonna help me out or make me google all of those?

[Chops]

If he is looking to be in special units then here is what he can be in....
SEALs, EOD, SAR, SWCC, FORCE RECON, RECON BN., SCOUT SNIPERS, FSSG, DIVISION, DIVE TECH., MARSOC , ETC.
I'm telling you bro you can be with any of them. If he goes to the Marines he will be Fleet Marine Force or green side as we call it. He can work in a hospital, clinic, or any of the units listed above. It'a a great rate to pick.

Sweet man. But tell me about the SOCOM dude- have you put rounds 'downrange' with it? It does look like a sweet piece.

[UDTWOLF]

I'll help you out no problem I will be back in a short while and will pm you info. Just send me a pm with specifics. The SOCOM yes is sweet, and yes H20 they do use that but they also have ventured into these as well.

[Beowulf]

I'll help you out no problem I will be back in a short while and will pm you info. Just send me a pm with specifics. The SOCOM yes is sweet, and yes H20 they do use that but they also have ventured into these as well.

That's cool man, I didn't have really specific questions. Just general stuff. I'll pm you.

[Chops]

Yeah I was just interested in hearing how the shorter barrel M14s work out in combat rather than range conditions? And you have to tell us who you're with mate...p-)

[UDTWOLF]

Yeah I was just interested in hearing how the shorter barrel M14s work out in combat rather than range conditions? And you have to tell us who you're with mate...p-)

Pretty much the same as far as accuracy. On the range I have really good grouping and in the field have had the same success. I like it better than carrying an M16A2 that's for sure. What else do you want to know? I mean I am not about to start saying confirms, you know.

As far as who I am with, that's not important I'm just a corpsman, that's all.

[szr]

As far as who I am with, that's not important I'm just a corpsman, that's all.
Coooool man. What MOS is Corpsman, again?

[UDTWOLF]

Coooool man. What MOS is Corpsman, again?

It's not an MOS it's a rate, pretty much the same thing but the Navy calls it a rate. As far as having a number with it like other branches of the military it will depend on what your specialty is or who you are with like if your FMF you would be 8404 , if you only went through Corps school you are a quad 0, Recon 8427 , it varies upon who you are with.

[szr]

Cool. So those numbers are rates?

[AK74]

god, the modern m14's are sexy!

[Twombly]

Well about using a M14 by marines:
Recon snipers use the M14 DMR
http://www.sweb.cz/twombly/Weapons/M14DMR.jpg

[ShakesFIST]

The SOCOM II from Springfield looks better and could make a good melee weapon.

I heard the SOCOM rifles were EXTREMELY loud for their size due to the short barrel.

[jagermeister]

dude im sorry but you lose a ****load muzzle velocity , knock down power and accuracy when you lop the barrel of a 308 that short. M14 has a what a 22 inch barrel? in a 16 you dont have enough time for all the powder to burn. Contrary to popular belife you can get way more accuracy out of the M16 platform then a M14. Granted you cant argue against the knock down power of the M14 over the M16. After shooting the SOCOM 16 a few trips i was very disapointed and it gets very little play now.The SCAR is the one im holding my breath for in 308.

[maw]

seriously i have no way of knowing who this guy is (no mos for a corpsman - lol!) but there's no nsn for that rifle in the database.

springfield m1's are crap. no usgi parts. recievers are out of spec. they have the worst qa and qc in the industry (high school kids working after hours on the production line). if you're a civvy and you want a m1 go to lrb, if you're a military unit go talk to smith enterprises. the mk14 has a nsn and is in deployment.

dw58 and twombly, i'm not "flame baiting" why wouldn't a semi qualify as a sniper rifle if it has the accuracy and the range? if you said complexity and number of moving parts, i'd be inclined to disagree because how many shots does the average sniper throw down range daily? i've previously posted my experiences with pics of the mk11. when i ditched the glass and changed the trigger i was getting 1" groups at 300 yards, not quite top shelf bolt gun territory but plenty good enough. the m118's were still super sonic and stable at 1008 yards. fwiw, i'm not a big fan boi of the mk11, but i feel it's adequate.

marine mk11 is a different nsn, they have diiferent optics (s&b), rings (badger?) and charginging handle (badger). some of the nsw units have had the original nsn changed to deviate on the optics (mob six going with nightforce).

and yes, the blaser r93 might be ok for target shooting but it is in no way a martially oriented rifle (crap in my humble opinion). best bang for the buck in .338lm is the sako trg, money no object i'd got with the pgw timberwolf's (with the canadian spec'd uso glass) that the cannuck snipers in the stan are now getting.

another alternative would be to go with the mauser based cz-452 - gotta love that beefy extractor claw. bed it into a mcmillan stock and add a good barrel and you'd have a formaidable rifle. imho, the remington 700 can't reliably scale up to the .338lm. george gardner at gap takes this path for the .338 (i've owned a couple of his outstanding guns).

[jagermeister]

i must have missed the part why we need a new sniper system?p-)

[DeltaWhisky58]

seriously i have no way of knowing who this guy is (no mos for a corpsman - lol!) but there's no nsn for that rifle in the database.

springfield m1's are crap. no usgi parts. recievers are out of spec. they have the worst qa and qc in the industry (high school kids working after hours on the production line). if you're a civvy and you want a m1 go to lrb, if you're a military unit go talk to smith enterprises. the mk14 has a nsn and is in deployment.

dw58 and twombly, i'm not "flame baiting" why wouldn't a semi qualify as a sniper rifle if it has the accuracy and the range? if you said complexity and number of moving parts, i'd be inclined to disagree because how many shots does the average sniper throw down range daily? i've previously posted my experiences with pics of the mk11. when i ditched the glass and changed the trigger i was getting 1" groups at 300 yards, not quite top shelf bolt gun territory but plenty good enough. the m118's were still super sonic and stable at 1008 yards. fwiw, i'm not a big fan boi of the mk11, but i feel it's adequate.

marine mk11 is a different nsn, they have diiferent optics (s&b), rings (badger?) and charginging handle (badger). some of the nsw units have had the original nsn changed to deviate on the optics (mob six going with nightforce).

and yes, the blaser r93 might be ok for target shooting but it is in no way a martially oriented rifle (crap in my humble opinion). best bang for the buck in .338lm is the sako trg, money no object i'd got with the pgw timberwolf's (with the canadian spec'd uso glass) that the cannuck snipers in the stan are now getting.

another alternative would be to go with the mauser based cz-452 - gotta love that beefy extractor claw. bed it into a mcmillan stock and add a good barrel and you'd have a formaidable rifle. imho, the remington 700 can't reliably scale up to the .338lm. george gardner at gap takes this path for the .338 (i've owned a couple of his outstanding guns).

Is there any chance you could post this in proper English, i.e. with the odd capital letter and some better punctuation so that an old fart like me can understand it? BTW - Where did I say that you were flame baiting on this thread?

Semi auto rifles have their place as DMRs etc. - I was probably shooting semi auto 7.62mm rifles accurately before you were out of short pants - but they will not shoot to the level of accuracy achieved from bolt action rifles.

This thread is now so way off topic that I've almost forgotten what it was about - and it is fast turning into yet another MP.Net p!ssing match.

[AK74]

i must have missed the part why we need a new sniper system?p-)

its a rumor. but that blazer looks good.

[jagermeister]

its a rumor. but that blazer looks good.


did you happen to ready any of this thread? the blazer is crap, and the M40s are top of the line. ive had dumb attacks before so i might be having one now but could you tell me why we would replace the M40s with blazers?

[AK74]

did you happen to ready any of this thread? the blazer is crap, and the M40s are top of the line. ive had dumb attacks before so i might be having one now but could you tell me why we would replace the M40s with blazers?

um... i said it LOOKS good.

i idint say it was.

[maw]

Is there any chance you could post this in proper English, i.e. with the odd capital letter and some better punctuation so that an old fart like me can understand it?
i once explained that i no longer have full use of my left hand so the shift key is pita to get to. i'm not coming up with excuses, if it's an issue tell me and i'll pony up.


BTW - Where did I say that you were flame baiting on this thread? i just don't want to get my pee-pee slapped so i'm walking on egg shells.


Semi auto rifles have their place as DMRs etc. - I was probably shooting semi auto 7.62mm rifles accurately before you were out of short pants - but they will not shoot to the level of accuracy achieved from bolt action rifles. fair enough, but anything better then 1 moa is imho good enough. you need 5 moa to hit a man sized b-24 target consistanly at 500 yards, i can do it with an ak/sks all day long. military deal in minute of man so a semi that consistanly delivers >.5 moa is gonna cut it. with a rifle that accurate, ranging and reading the wind is going to be a much bigger variable than the platform. which is why most of the hsld users upgraded the optics on the nsn supplied sr-25's, they found that the rifle was out-shooting the leupold glass.
oh and fwiw, i've recently gotten my first gray hairs.


This thread is now so way off topic that I've almost forgotten what it was about - and it is fast turning into yet another MP.Net p!ssing match. cut us some slack, this is a discussion forum after all and we are still discussing long range shooting...

[DeltaWhisky58]

OK Maw - we've spoken, slack cut. ;-)

[Nrjetix]

best bang for the buck in .338lm is the sako trg, money no object i'd got with the pgw timberwolf's (with the canadian spec'd uso glass) that the cannuck snipers in the stan are now getting.

Ok, my memory has been jogged. Im pretty sure the Timberwolf rifle you mention is the favourite of the 3 contenders for the new UK sniper rifle. Ill confirm on Monday.

[JTAR7242]

Well about using a M14 by marines:
Recon snipers use the M14 DMR
http://www.sweb.cz/twombly/Weapons/M14DMR.jpg
Yep.

Taken by my own hand:
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1797/sniper1ju0.jpg

[8thidpathfinderpower]

No the Marines have not been. They don't even use an M14 at all. They stick with the M40 mainly.
Last I heard, they still use the M14DMR version of the M14.

[UDTWOLF]

Yep.

Taken by my own hand:
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1797/sniper1ju0.jpg

Which recon bn is that? The ones at Camp Pendleton I have never seen them with it from what I can recall.

[UDTWOLF]

Last I heard, they still use the M14DMR version of the M14.

Yeah, it looks like they are. I thought that they hadn't used it in sometime. I know that SS do not use them, but I guess recon still does.

[maw]

udtwolf - do you by chance have a socnet or professional soldiers account? if so, come on over and introduce yorself, there's someone i'd like you to meet...


Ok, my memory has been jogged. Im pretty sure the Timberwolf rifle you mention is the favourite of the 3 contenders for the new UK sniper rifle. Ill confirm on Monday.

in that case here's some prairie gun works long range fcukstick goodness for you (the newest timberwolf is available with a folding stock):

notice the top shelf canadian spec'd uso scope (with erek knobs and all):
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4113/pgw1so7.jpg

notice the awesomely cool maple leaf on the end of the can:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4972/pgw2ez3.jpg

off to the stan:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/601/pgw3hs8.jpg

this rig will hit a man sized target at 1860 yards:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3224/pgw4iv5.jpg

[kamarian]

What is the twist-looking machining on the barrel for? does it help with heat dissipation?

[jagermeister]

ya looks almost like fluting.

LOL dude i love that picture of the M40,M40A1,M40A3 and the M14. needless to say i know they arnt issuing 2 of those systems anymore.

[jimmyboots]

I rememeber berthing with a EOD team in 2003 on a westpac float that had two m14 dmr's. Have not seen one since but wouldn't be surprise if they were still i service.

S/F

[UDTWOLF]

udtwolf - do you by chance have a socnet or professional soldiers account? if so, come on over and introduce yorself, there's someone i'd like you to meet...



Maw- I don't believe that I do but tell me where to go and I will come on over.

[California Joe]

http://www.socnetcentral.com

[LaoSexMachine]

http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/

Edit. CJ beat me to it.

[UDTWOLF]

http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/

Edit. CJ beat me to it.
Thanks fellas I put two and two together right after I posted that and common sense prevailed and I already found it. lol

[Chops]

Right I think this farce has gone on long enough don't you Mr UDTWOLF?

Shall I list what doesn't add up with you?

1) Your support for the SOCOM 16, a weapon which has not been adopted by ANY USSOCOM or NSW unit including the SEALs. NSW are seemingly very happy with the Mark 14 EBR. Indeed, why would they trial a 16" barrel M14? For 'snipers' as you allege? With a 16" barrel you're not going to have the accuracy demanded of sniper platforms beyond maybe 200 metres or so and that's being charitable. Before you throw your support behind a platform, read up on it beforehand- it's a CQB platform and a civilian one at that. The SOCOM tag is pure marketing not as you claim 'SOCOM 16 was made specifically for units in SOCOM '.

2) You then claim 'operational' experience with said weapon. So no one in USSOCOM are carrying it but you have? And this is on your 'numerous' stints in the Sandbox? Really? You might have expected you might have seen a few M14 DMRs in the hands of Marines on all of these 'tours' but no, you claim they haven't adopted the 14.

3) You later claim '4 tours in Iraq 2 in Afghan, (I will not name the others)'. And '8 years in the Navy? Really? For a guy with that much trigger time in the badlands you sure talk like a teenager reading too much Tom Clancy.

4) Your continual refusal to name your unit is rather suspicious now isn't it? To quote yourself again, 'You know that I am not going to release to you my unit information that would be down right stupid and that is OPSEC'. Rubbish. You're supposedly a Navy corpsman who hints at HSLD connections- what possible OPSEC considerations could there be about naming the unit or even the command you're attached to. Unless it doesn't exist and you're not attached to any HSLD unit. Or perhaps you're not even a Navy corpsman at all?

5) Your 'Camps of Terror' post was direct from a teenage brain with zero real world experience. It was laughable. In fact what was more laughable was that you used this post to criticise others for not serving. Pot. Kettle. Black. Laughable.

6) 'I mean I am not about to start saying confirms, you know'. What? Is this in Ghost Recon or Battlefield 2? Or airsoft?

7) Your supposed 'training' with LA FBI SWAT and their use of the SOCOM 16. Do you realise that the FBI is a national organisation and their adoption of new weapons systems reflects this? They don't just adopt whatever they like. You should know that after 'working' with their snipers. Or maybe you didn't. Like the JSOC unit I mentioned to which you agreed they were top notch- JSOC MFU = JSOC Mega Force Unit. A little 'in' joke here.

8) Your refusal to answer PMs from Beo and myself. Granted we baited the f_uck out of you both here and in your equally laughable 'Who is?' thread. We knew you were a Walter Mitty, poser, wannabe whatever term you prefer from pretty much your first post. Beo is in A-stan right now working with some of the people you obviously admire so much you try to impersonate them.

Frankly 'bro' you're a tool and a poser. You're a fu_cking disgrace to everyone who's ever served in your country's Navy. You are really just lucky Matchanu hasn't shown up yet. He's a real deal ex SEAL and eats pricks like you for breakfast. Or his pals from SOCNET. Don't worry though your IP and log in details will be passed to him. If you really are Navy you have a whole world of hurt coming once he gives those details along to his former command.

UDTWOLF. **** and MP.net Dumbarse Poser of the Year. Go eat a bag of ****s.

[California Joe]

You always spoil all the fun.

Nicely written summation by the way. Maybe you should think about writing a book on this subject.....p-)

[ShakesFIST]

This thread had "Seen it coming from a mile away" written all over it. :)



7) Your supposed 'training' with LA FBI SWAT and their use of the SOCOM 16. Do you realise that the FBI is a national organisation and their adoption of new weapons systems reflects this? They don't just adopt whatever they like. You should know that after 'working' with their snipers. Or maybe you didn't. Like the JSOC unit I mentioned to which you agreed they were top notch- JSOC MFU = JSOC Mega Force Unit. A little 'in' joke here.


I thought Mega Force was restricted to the LF forum?

[szr]

Naval Enlisted Codes and Rates are two different things. 8427 is not a Rate, it's a NEC. HM3 is a Rate.

[UDTWOLF]

DELETED by me

[UDTWOLF]

Naval Enlisted Codes and Rates are two different things. 8427 is not a Rate, it's a NEC. HM3 is a Rate.
that is what I said about the rate I never mentioned about the NEC being the fact I didn't think that they would know what it is anyways. So I just spoke of it as a whole. Rate, Rank, NEC I know all about but only about the ones that I dealt with specifically.

All that I said about the numbers(NEC) are in a previous post.

[UDTWOLF]

And to all I have never claimed to be anything, I have simply stated 8 years in the Navy, which doesn't say that I am still in nor does it state that I am out.

In previous posts I posted that I am just a corpsman, that's all. 8 years would mean that I joined the Navy when? Since you displayed my age! lol, oh and did so how since I was that age!

[UDTWOLF]

Chops your funny, but never the less you don't offend me your overwhelmed with ignorance right now and that's ok we'll get it straightened out.

[California Joe]

Chops has verified credentials. Period. You, as of yet do not. It's really that simple. Prove him wrong.

[UDTWOLF]

Chops has verified credentials. Period. You, as of yet do not. It's really that simple. Prove him wrong.

Prove him wrong in what area would you like this done in, ask a question and I will answer since this has turned into what it has.

[muttbutt]

Like clubbing baby SEALs...or not as the case maybe...p-)

[UDTWOLF]

Like clubbing baby SEALs...or not as the case maybe...p-)
LOL, nice analogy! Ask me te questions that you would like answers to. I am right now over at socnet so it sounds like that they will sort it out, I guess. As for the mean time maybe if I could get an admin to change my screen name I would appreciate it. I didn't think that it would cause problems. If you could just change it to WOLFDOC I would appreciate that and we can proceed from there.

[muttbutt]

well the boys at SOCNET, have said GTG on you...nice to meet you.

[UDTWOLF]

well the boys at SOCNET, have said GTG on you...nice to meet you.
you as well hopefully that alleviated any confusion from before. Now we can get on without aggression towards one another.

[Aerosoul]

Wait a minute. You requested name change here and at SOCNET as I just read. At SOCNET you can't have UDT in your name if you haven't been through BUD/S. Yet...you provided a name and class number at SOCNET. So why change if you're the real deal?

I am shocked, still. I'm not convinced yet. Not by what I have seen in your posts.

[California Joe]

http://www.wetworkssocom.com/forum/index.php?topic=1427.msg10889#msg10889 p-)

This one is my favorite...


UDT-Wolf link=topic=1427.msg10515#msg10515 date=1162275064]
Iraqi special forces

Iraqi counter terrorism

Iraqi counter terrorism snipers

I trained these bastards....they actually became very good!!

[Aerosoul]

Nice find, Joe...

[UDTWOLF]

Wait a minute. You requested name change here and at SOCNET as I just read. At SOCNET you can't have UDT in your name if you haven't been through BUD/S. Yet...you provided a name and class number at SOCNET. So why change if you're the real deal?

I am shocked, still. I'm not convinced yet. Not by what I have seen in your posts.
So that people will stop asking so many questions to be honest with you. I am here not to talk about who I am but just to get in on conversations with those alike and to be involved in conversations with those that actually know what they are talking about. Just looking for a good environment to hang out in. For the record I have requested a name change here and there. A little advice though , I understand the inquesitive nature of everyone but you should be a little more respectful of those that are here because you never know and after all I am just a CORPSMAN! Don't look to much into posts people often post their opinions more than true hard facts until pushed to do so. Last it is not important who I am, convinced or not bro it's facts that have been provided.

[UDTWOLF]

http://www.wetworkssocom.com/forum/index.php?topic=1427.msg10889#msg10889 p-)

This one is my favorite...


UDT-Wolf link=topic=1427.msg10515#msg10515 date=1162275064]
Iraqi special forces

Iraqi counter terrorism

Iraqi counter terrorism snipers

I trained these bastards....they actually became very good!!
lol, is their a question involved here? If not I am done with this debate on who I am,lol it's become rediculous. I am who I am and have been verified.

[California Joe]

Nice find, Joe...

A little squirrel dropped that in my lap actually. Sure seems coincidental...

[UDTWOLF]

A little squirrel dropped that in my lap actually. Sure seems coincidental...
What is your question? It is a SOCOM gaming forums. What is coincidental my screen name? And yes that is me there as well. Through that is how I found out about this website through military buddies that are there.

[California Joe]

Since when do Corpsman train counterterrorism snipers and spec ops?

[UDTWOLF]

Since when do Corpsman train counterterrorism snipers and spec ops?
When your a corpsman and attached to specific units you help with the training of those that are being trained as well as provide what they would call us at that time as a safety corpsman for those that are injured during training. I was not stating that I am Rambo and I single handedly trained these groups.

[Aerosoul]

I was not stating that I am Rambo and I single handedly trained these groups.

We know that, and you also know that we know that.

[California Joe]

"I personally chose Navy because of reasons better left unsaid. I was in the Marines as well but I like all branches of the military. I'm thinking of joining the Army next"

How long were you a Marine....?

[UDTWOLF]

At this website that you have provided is full of those either wanting to join the military and need info, Border patrol agents, police officers, those in the military, and a few others that are just knuckle heads,lol but they are all good guys that are fascinated with that which we do and have an overall respect for us.

[Chops]

UDTWOLF or whatever your name is- if I'm wrong I'm happy to retract my statement and apologise to you personally and to the board in general but something doesn't seem right here. Not right at all. If you've verified at SOCNET I'll speak with Rock and Match and sort this out.

[UDTWOLF]

"I personally chose Navy because of reasons better left unsaid. I was in the Marines as well but I like all branches of the military. I'm thinking of joining the Army next"

How long were you a Marine....?
needed to be deleted

[LaoSexMachine]

about 2 months I didn't provide them with all past history. So got a waiver and joined the Navy

You are telling us that you were in the Marines for 2 months and cross decked? Please elaborate.

[UDTWOLF]

UDTWOLF or whatever your name is- if I'm wrong I'm happy to retract my statement and apologise to you personally and to the board in general but something doesn't seem right here. Not right at all. If you've verified at SOCNET I'll speak with Rock and Match and sort this out.
needed to be deleted

[UDTWOLF]

You are telling us that you were in the Marines for 2 months and cross decked? Please elaborate.
needs to be deleted

[LaoSexMachine]

No not cross decked read closely , I didn't provide them with all my past history meaning discharge and it was going to take to long to get back so I went to the Navy. I was 17 and listened when the recruited told me not tell them everything and they found out. Young and dumb.

So you were never in the Marines. Only DEPed?

[California Joe]

You know, I have a lot of respect for the guys over at SOCNET and their fact checking abilities, but if you are the real deal you should probably take a course in "How not to sound like an internet poser" Cause you sure set off a lot of "Walt" Meters around here.

[UDTWOLF]

So you were never in the Marines. Only DEPed?
needs deleting.

[UDTWOLF]

You know, I have a lot of respect for the guys over at SOCNET and their fact checking abilities, but if you are the real deal you should probably take a course in "How not to sound like an internet poser" Cause you sure set off a lot of "Walt" Meters around here.
Ok, well I didn't think that I was but I am guessing that maybe I was just misinterpreted when saying things or my statements may have been taken out of context.

[LaoSexMachine]

I was in BOOT CAMP, so no I was never a Marine expcet for being attached while in the Navy to 2/5. I personally consider that when attached to them that I was a Marine more than a Sailor being the reason why I say I was in the Marines as well to cut it short because most don't understand on the forums how it all works. But there is the skinny on that.


So you didnt' make it through Marine Corps boot camp then. I was a Marine.

[LRPV]

Talk about draggin' cats out of bags...

Can I take it that from informed members of the board that my 'rumour' is just that? No new toys for the USMC S/S?

[UDTWOLF]

So you didnt' make it through Marine Corps boot camp then. I was a Marine.
Yeah it's what I always said at the time. I'm not a sailor I'm a Marine, is what I use to say. Also when with other Marines when asked they would say that's DOC he's just a Marine. So at that time I was all about it and it stuck with me and during my military experience I consider myself as a Marine during that time. The only Navy you are around when with them is other HM's and if your with the line then your rarely with them unless you go to the BAS or RAS. You sit down at the armory and the barracks and try to stay away from the BAS because it was always more fun being with them. Of course we had to go when we were giving immunizations and fixing health records etc.

[UDTWOLF]

Talk about draggin' cats out of bags...

Can I take it that from informed members of the board that my 'rumour' is just that? No new toys for the USMC S/S?
No there isn't any new toys for SS that I am aware of except for their new M40 but if they have started using the M14 that is news to me.
Recon is a different story however. But SS are just with regular Infantry Bn.unless they end up going over to recon. But that's a different story.

[jagermeister]

wow some crazy **** going down in here......so whats the verdict?

[Masai]

1234567890

[UDTWOLF]

wow some crazy **** going down in here......so whats the verdict?
Well, looks like SOCNET handed you all the verdict but if that doesn't suffice then I don't know what to tell you except for have a good day.

[Chops]

Well, looks like SOCNET handed you all the verdict but if that doesn't suffice then I don't know what to tell you except for have a good day.

Well yes. And no.

SOCNET verified you as a SEAL after you supplied a BUD/S class number and swim buddy name. This only increased our suspicions. Beo, CJ and myself contacted various friendlies both here and at SOCNET to take a more in-depth look at you and your claims.

It appears, without going into any unnecessary detail, that you didn't in fact graduate from BUD/S, were booted from the Navy soon after and never received the Trident and thus was never a SEAL.

You are however now banned from here.

I believe this pretty much closes this topic. As we often say here, don't pretend to be something you are not. You will be discovered and shut down. Thanks to all who assisted on this one including our friends @ SOCNET.

Chops