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daily666
11-17-2006, 09:14 PM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6159046.stm

The Dutch cabinet has backed a proposal by the country's immigration minister to ban Muslim women from wearing the burqa in public places.

The burqa, a full body covering that also obscures the face, would be banned by law in the street, and in trains, schools, buses and the law courts.

The cabinet said burqas disturb public order, citizens and safety. The decision comes days ahead of elections which the ruling centre-right coalition is expected to win. Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk, who is known for her tough policies, said it was important that all people in the Netherlands were able to see and identify each other clearly to promote integration and tolerance.

Last year a majority of MPs in the Dutch parliament said they were in favour of a ban. An estimated 6% of 16 million people living in the Netherlands are Muslims. But there are thought to be fewer than 100 women who choose to wear the burqa, a traditional Islamic form of dress.

Civil rights debate

The latest move came after an expert committee judged that it would not contravene Dutch law. Other forms of face coverings, such as crash helmets with visors that obscure the face, would also be covered by a legal ban. Ms Verdonk insisted the burqa was not an acceptable part of public life in the Netherlands. "The Cabinet finds it undesirable that face-covering clothing - including the burqa - is worn in public places for reasons of public order, security and protection of citizens," she said.

Critics of the proposed ban say it would violate civil rights. The main Muslim organisation in the Netherlands, CMO, said the plan was an "over-reaction to a very marginal problem", the Associated Press reported. But the minister told the BBC that social interaction would be easier if faces were not covered. "It is very important that we can see each other and can communicate with each other. Because we are so tolerant we want to respect each other."

Tension

The issue of the type of clothing worn by Muslim women has become a hotly-debated subject in a range of European countries.
France has passed a law banning religious symbols, including Muslim headscarves, from schools. Some German states ban teachers in public schools from wearing headscarves, but there is no blanket rule against burqas. Italy has banned face-coverings, resurrecting old laws passed to combat domestic terrorism, while citing new security fears.

The issue of Muslim women's dress also surfaced in the UK, where former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said women should not wear the veil. The Dutch relationship with its Muslim community has been under scrutiny since the murder of film-maker Theo van Gogh by Islamic extremists in November 2004. Earlier this year Ms Verdonk clashed with a minority party in the governing coalition over her handling of the citizenship case of Somali-born Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

The MP scripted a controversial film about the treatment of women in Islamic society, directed by van Gogh before he was killed. But she admitted lying on her 1992 application for Dutch citizenship, and Ms Verdonk initially called for the MP to be deported.

Paul in Saudi2
11-17-2006, 11:47 PM
What the heck is it with dress codes this month?

Spiggin
11-18-2006, 10:31 AM
Civil rights blah blah .. Im sure theyd tolerate me wearing a hoodie and covering my face wit ha mask when i Turn up for court? No they wouldnt .. all this civil rights and religious bs allways used as an excuse.

Fine they want to cover their faces ok .. but if they can then so can I .. im going to go to my bank with a jason mask on and see what happens?

Paul in Saudi2
11-18-2006, 12:11 PM
Please do.

rb132
11-18-2006, 12:19 PM
i cant see what this is going to achieve, whats the harm in letting someone wear whatever they want to wear? I could understand maybe if they were asked to take it off whenever they went into a bank just as wearing motorcycle helmets isnt allowed for security reasons but banning wearing it out in public all the time seems rediculous, the police have better things to do than go round giving tickets to muslim women for covering their faces in public,does the dutch government not have more pressing things on its plate?

Supe
11-18-2006, 12:46 PM
While I loathe the Burqa/Niqab, I'm not too keen on Government regulating how its citizenry dresses. This is a sledgehammer approach to integration. You can't force enlightenment/broader horizons on folks and such laws are bound to be seen as an unfair imposition on them and cause for further resentment. Perfect grist for the malcontents in the Islamic community to manipulate sentiment.

Freedom06
11-18-2006, 01:54 PM
^ I agree, a bridge too far to ban in all public places, will just give the extremists more 'proof' that they are being victimised. Keep them out of schools and courts but why ban them altogether?

Freedom06
11-18-2006, 03:26 PM
I don't think governments really know how to handle this new threat of islamic extremism. On the one hand they have not got to compromise the vaues that we in the West hold so dear-freedom of speech, Habeus Corpus etc. and yet on the other they feel that they must be seen to react to to the threat-hence this flurry of totally unneccessary law-making.

In my view you have to be a bit like an Aikido master when confronting this. Do not lose your balance, don't over-react-use the opponents momentum to defeat him. The more we are seen to lose our cool and pass new laws that are perceived to be persecuting muslims, the more the extremists win. We already have sufficient laws in place to tackle this problem.

AK74
11-18-2006, 04:40 PM
let em wear it , they will be labled as weirdos anyway.

I'll lobby we all can wear gas masks to the court cuz our religion is MP.net

Bert
11-18-2006, 04:51 PM
It's not about freedom, it's about lack of freedom. The only reason these things called burqas exist is islamic oppression of women - it serves no other purpose and so should be banned from the public space of a country where such views are unwanted.

Noone WANTS to wear this - the muslim women who say they want to wear it are the ones scared to death they'll be beaten at home every day once they can't wear it.

ellion 86R*
11-18-2006, 05:56 PM
Seems very logical to me. When I am sitting on the bench in the park I wanna know who the heck is sitting next to me and even more I really wanna see the face of someone who am I talking with.

Eggy
11-18-2006, 06:06 PM
I could not care less what "the extremists" think, I fully support this measure. Just because people follow a certain religion doesn't excuse them from following the law. You should always be identifiable in public places and with a burqa you are not. Besides that it's a sign of oppression of women which does not belong in a Western civilisation.

kinsella
11-18-2006, 09:00 PM
i said it before in the thread about veils in court, when in rome.

these people are wanting to change there new homeland to be more like their old. if you live in a country you do as they do. if you dont want to live like the rest of the country you are new to, then stay in your old one.

you left your country for a reason, why try and make the new one like the old? do that, and then youll be looking to move to yet another new country (and look to change that one as well).

jim416
11-18-2006, 11:05 PM
Just recently saw a video in one of the Arab countries of two women who decided NOT to have their faces covered. The video was of them being whisked away as a HUGE crowd of males, in the hundreds, followed and taunted them. I want to say the video was from Egypt, but don't know/remember now. Of course, I looked and looked and looked for any more women on the street and didn't see one. Locked in their homes I assume.

Anyways, you DON'T cover your face in their country all hell breaks loose. Would that apply to an American woman who walked out on the street? Probably. I've never seen so much "victimiztion" by a bunch of people in my life, but they're being pretty slick about it and want to win the propoganda war.

ellion 86R*
11-19-2006, 02:38 AM
Its very simple guys, once you immigrated to another country - be so nice to obey the laws and follow the rules of the hosting country. Then you are a good immigrant, otherwise you are piece of ugly %$#* immigrant. I do not really care if in your As*fu*kistan you wear burkas or anything else, fortunately you are in a civilized country with a certain rules, laws and traditions. Dont even try to change any of those. And completely dont understand those faggots who scream something about human right... (when talking about this issue in particular)

rb132
11-19-2006, 06:02 AM
lets hope your not in charge of running a country one day

sp2c
11-21-2006, 07:19 PM
it's not really about muslims

there is allready is a law banning people from covering up their faces (skimasks for instance are illegal), has something to do about being identifiable. For instance if you shoot somebody in a bhurka, it'll make it difficult for witnesses and sketch artists to come up with anything other then a tent with feet. Also if someone close to you shoots somebody it will be hard for the police to track you down as a possible witness because all they have to work with is a tent with feet ... not that your testimony will hold up in court because nobody can confirm that the tent with feet was actually you

This just confirms it is still the law, which is good because it's a perfectly good one