PDA

View Full Version : Some Troops Expect All-Out Fallujah Fight



ariweiner
04-13-2004, 05:39 PM
Some Troops Expect All-Out Fallujah Fight
18 minutes ago


By JASON KEYSER, Associated Press Writer

FALLUJAH, Iraq - Digging in around Fallujah, their three-day-old truce punctured by shelling, gunfire and well-orchestrated ambushes, U.S. Marines gave vent to their frustrations Tuesday, saying they saw no alternative to an all-out battle for the city.

With U.S.-backed Iraqi officials still talking with city leaders about ending the standoff, it's not for the troops to decide how this tangle of conflicting forces will unravel.

But as Marines traded gun and mortar fire with rooftop snipers and fighters on the northern edge of Fallujah, some of them anticipated a bloody push to take the city of 200,000 people, a stronghold of Sunni Muslim insurgents.

"If they're trying to find a peaceful way out of this, great. But at this point, there seem to be few options other than to get innocents out and level it, wipe it clear off the map," said 1st Lt. Frank Dillbeck, scanning the city's outskirts with binoculars during a relative lull in fighting.

Insurgents fired mortars at bulldozers digging earthen defenses but hit none. Marines responded with mortars and machine guns in sporadic volleys. A Marine with an M-16 shot dead a man on a balcony shouting orders to black-clad men below, Dillbeck said. He was thought to be directing snipers and mortar fire.

Dillbeck, 29, from McCormick, S.C., commands a platoon from the 3rd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, trying to seal the northern edge of Fallujah. Insurgents used the shaky cease-fire to edge closer to Dillbeck's troops on Tuesday, taking up positions in buildings and firing rifles and rocket-propelled grenades over the earth barriers and foxholes.

At one point, two rockets were fired from behind the troops — perhaps from an unguarded highway — and landed about 200 yards short, sending up plumes of black smoke.

A heavy exchange of gunfire was heard Tuesday in Fallujah's southern neighborhood of Nazal, smoke billowing into the sky. Soon afterward, two F-15s circled the city, firing into the area. Commanders said two Marine armored vehicles were under attack and the warplanes were providing them cover.

Dillbeck's battalion of some 1,000 troops controls about five city blocks of sand-colored brick houses on the Euphrates River. Many families have left.

Insurgents have organized complex ambushes, launching ambushes that combine roadside bombs, machine gun fire and rockets, officers say.

"This is a dynamic enemy," said Lt. Col. Brian Baggot, a senior watch officer with the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force's command center, which directs a force of 25,000 Marines in Fallujah and around the entire Al Anbar province, west of Baghdad.

One complex ambush began when a small girl led a herd of cattle across the highway in front of a seven-vehicle convoy, said Lance Cpl. Ryan Christiansen, 25, from the Chicago suburb of Huntley.

As the convoy slowed, dozens of gunmen hiding in tall grass and buildings along both sides of the zigzagging highway let loose with machine guns and small arms fire.

"It was raining bullets sideways," Christiansen said.

The commander of the convoy was shot in the leg and radioed to the others, "Hurry up; we got to get out of here," Christiansen recalled. The commander was then fatally shot in the head. The Pentagon (news - web sites) identified him as 34-year-old 1st Lt. Oscar Jimenez, of San Diego, Calif.

Lance Cpl. Christopher Laha, 22, was manning an automatic grenade launcher when he was shot in the arm. He tied a belt around his arm to stem the heavy bleeding before firing back, Christiansen said.

Gunmen rushed the convoy but it pushed ahead, leaving nine insurgents dead, the troops said.

Christiansen said he was unfazed by concerns that the gunmen may be using the cease-fire to regroup.

"I really don't care; they're all gonna die," he said.

Meanwhile, Marines were resupplying, running coils of barbed wire, food, ammunition and fuel to troops dug into the city outskirts. Lt. Brian McDonald, 25, of Ashburn, Va., who led out a supply convoy, also expected things to get worse.

"Once the whole cease-fire is over, it's going to start getting a little wilder out here," he said. "They're firing at us every night; sooner or later enough is enough."

His battalion arrived in Fallujah on Friday from the Syrian border, where it was guarding a hydroelectric dam. The 3rd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment is well-known for its Marines who toppled a bronze statue of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).

The fighting in Fallujah is what they expected but didn't get when they entered Baghdad a year ago, said Maj. Andrew Petrucci, 32, the battalion's executive officer, from Cape Cod, Massachusetts.

At least 78 U.S. troops and 890 Iraqis have died in April.

Red
04-13-2004, 05:47 PM
I hate to say this but the iraqi people in that city are going to get a **** storm.I wish this siege tactic was not employed in the first place but would have, should have dont matter.The marines have no choice but to lauch a full frontal assualt because employing a siege tactic ultimately will lead you to this outcome when your foe refuses to capitulate.I just hope it does not get as bad as what i saw in Sierre leaone when Nigerian Navy ships and Nigerian Airforce Jets bombed the **** outta freetown.

American Patriot
04-13-2004, 06:00 PM
Time to kill the enemy.

Romulus
04-13-2004, 06:05 PM
"I really don't care; they're all gonna die," he said.

I agree. ;)

injetores que chamejam
04-13-2004, 06:09 PM
Give them a day or two to move out all of the women and children, then bring in the heavy guns and bombard the town.

Obergefreiter
04-13-2004, 06:12 PM
That is the attitude L like to see from any soldier. Fight!

If this starts up again, and I think it will, it is going to get nasty. Both sides have had several days to regroup and prepare.

Romulus
04-13-2004, 06:14 PM
Give them a day or two to move out all of the women and children, then bring in the heavy guns and bombard the town.

They have given them a full week to leave. All men of fighting age can't leave the city.

American Patriot
04-13-2004, 06:15 PM
If anyone is interested there's a video of Marines in a night time Fallujah firefight on Reuter's website. Lots of M240G's and HEDP's going off then it shows them patrolling the same area at sunrise.

Romulus
04-13-2004, 06:17 PM
Link you c**k tease. :lol: ;)


As it is to hard for me to type in the address.

Red
04-13-2004, 06:20 PM
The problem with this is that no matter what happens, the PR for the US wont be too nice.I just hope that US forces dont take very heavy casualties and that innocent iraqi deaths are minimized while the death of insurgents is maximized to the fullest

injetores que chamejam
04-13-2004, 06:22 PM
If anyone is interested there's a video of Marines in a night time Fallujah firefight on Reuter's website. Lots of M240G's and HEDP's going off then it shows them patrolling the same area at sunrise.

Could you post a link?

Midav
04-13-2004, 06:23 PM
Hope they won't have to raze the whole city to kill the insurgents.

Would not be good in relations.

However, if this needs to be done, then godspeed for all US/Coalition troops that are and may be involved in Fallujah and kick ass!!

injetores que chamejam
04-13-2004, 06:23 PM
Give them a day or two to move out all of the women and children, then bring in the heavy guns and bombard the town.

They have given them a full week to leave. All men of fighting age can't leave the city.

Then the artillary ought to be pounding the town.

Midav
04-13-2004, 06:28 PM
Fallujah death toll mounts despite cease-fire
Nine Iraqis have been killed and 38 wounded in sporadic fire between US forces and insurgents in the flashpoint city of Fallujah.

"We have nine killed and 38 wounded today," Mohammed Tabsh, a doctor at the main medical centre of Fallujah, the Popular Clinic, said.

"The wounded include three women and four children."

He says most of the injuries are from tank fire and sniper fire.

A mediator negotiating a truce in the embattled city west of Baghdad says half the Iraqis killed since the US offensive on Fallujah began nine days ago are women, children and elderly people.

Fouad Rawi, a senior member of the Iraqi Islamic Party spearheading efforts to negotiate a cease-fire, quotes hospital sources as saying that more than 600 Iraqis have been killed and 1,250 wounded.

He says among those killed are 160 women, 141 children and many elderly, providing the first precise figures on the number of civilian deaths from the offensive.

The military operation, which sent thousands of residents fleeing their homes, has drawn considerable criticism from even staunch US supporters among the Iraqis.

They say it amounts to collective punishment of civilians.

But Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, the coalition's deputy director of military operations, says the blame lies with the insurgents.

"Collective punishment is imposed on the people of Fallujah by those terrorists and cowards that hunker down inside mosques, hospitals and schools and use women and children as shields to hide," he said.

--AFP

No way of confirming the numbers either way.

However, if true then it's a shame.

RIP

Ratamacue
04-13-2004, 06:30 PM
He says most of the injuries are from tank fire and sniper fire.

Yeah, last time I checked snipers don't fire on unarmed people.

Macs.
04-13-2004, 06:34 PM
http://*******.feedroom.com/

Scroll down, under Worldnews you see the green Thumbnail.


Would be great to rip those videos off the reuter website...

Midav
04-13-2004, 06:34 PM
May not be US snipers.

Could very well be insurgents. Get a news crew into a hospital ward full of women and kids that have been shot, then say US forces did it.

What al-jazeera is good for.

Midav
04-13-2004, 06:40 PM
http://*******.feedroom.com/

Scroll down, under Worldnews you see the green Thumbnail.


Would be great to rip those videos off the reuter website...

Ty!!

ariweiner
04-13-2004, 07:02 PM
Yeah, last time I checked snipers don't fire on unarmed people.

The Marines have standing orders to shoot anyone of military age who's on the streets armed or unarmed.

"they have orders to shoot any male of military age on the streets after dark, armed or not" - NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/international/middleeast/13CND-FALL.html)

injetores que chamejam
04-13-2004, 07:04 PM
Yeah, last time I checked snipers don't fire on unarmed people.

The Marines have standing orders to shoot anyone of military age who's on the streets armed or unarmed.

"they have orders to shoot any male of military age on the streets after dark, armed or not" - NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/international/middleeast/13CND-FALL.html)

When so many have been wearing bombs strapped on under their shirts, you don't take any chances.

seruriermarshal
04-13-2004, 07:30 PM
It is political purposes that has interfered the military operation, this kind of behavior will only damage the army.

:fork:

Ratamacue
04-13-2004, 07:34 PM
Yeah, last time I checked snipers don't fire on unarmed people.

The Marines have standing orders to shoot anyone of military age who's on the streets armed or unarmed.

"they have orders to shoot any male of military age on the streets after dark, armed or not" - NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/international/middleeast/13CND-FALL.html)

They're probably AUTHORIZED to do so, they would probably challenge anyone they encountered before shooting them.

SeanAshi
04-13-2004, 07:48 PM
If anyone is interested there's a video of Marines in a night time Fallujah firefight on Reuter's website.For some reason ******* videos no long will play on my computer....

Korth
04-13-2004, 10:14 PM
It worked for me.

Sergei
04-14-2004, 03:15 AM
Yeah, last time I checked snipers don't fire on unarmed people.

The Marines have standing orders to shoot anyone of military age who's on the streets armed or unarmed.

"they have orders to shoot any male of military age on the streets after dark, armed or not" - NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/international/middleeast/13CND-FALL.html)

This is stupid, they will alienate any male between 15 and 60 to fight them no matter because those people don't have a chance to survive anyway. This is approximately 50000 people standing army. I hope Marines are ready to have some bloody nose.

Nizark
04-14-2004, 03:35 AM
As for those f-15's going over head, it was reported that they are dropping 'sound bombs' and not explosives...i guess these things are like big-ass stun grenades

cold0
04-14-2004, 04:18 AM
Fallujah death toll mounts despite cease-fire
Nine Iraqis have been killed and 38 wounded in sporadic fire between US forces and insurgents in the flashpoint city of Fallujah.

"We have nine killed and 38 wounded today," Mohammed Tabsh, a doctor at the main medical centre of Fallujah, the Popular Clinic, said.

"The wounded include three women and four children."

He says most of the injuries are from tank fire and sniper fire.

A mediator negotiating a truce in the embattled city west of Baghdad says half the Iraqis killed since the US offensive on Fallujah began nine days ago are women, children and elderly people.

Fouad Rawi, a senior member of the Iraqi Islamic Party spearheading efforts to negotiate a cease-fire, quotes hospital sources as saying that more than 600 Iraqis have been killed and 1,250 wounded.

He says among those killed are 160 women, 141 children and many elderly, providing the first precise figures on the number of civilian deaths from the offensive.


I hope that someone put a bullest in the head of the "good" doctor Mohammed Tabsh, so he stops to say BS!!!

It's sad but there's only a solution; go haed and finish the work, the Iraqi insurgents will not surrender anyway.


"they have orders to shoot any male of military age on the streets after dark, armed or not"

Pure BS. There's no reason to kill every person that show up; anyway, who roams in the streets at Falluja during nightime is not a fan of Marine Corps..

wulfstan
04-14-2004, 08:37 AM
notice how al jazeera uses 'occupation forces' in all its news items, where everyone else uses the words 'coalition forces'. Also, the fighters are referred to as 'anti-occupation' rather than 'anti-coalition'. :roll:

Examples here;
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=1480

wreck
04-14-2004, 08:41 AM
notice how al jazeera uses 'occupation forces' in all its news items, where everyone else uses the words 'coalition forces'. Also, the fighters are referred to as 'anti-occupation' rather than 'anti-coalition'. :roll:

Examples here;
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=1480
Yeah, and the same anti-occupation forces are called terrorists in US media...

wulfstan
04-14-2004, 08:46 AM
True. What we're looking at is two different sides of the same coin.

I would have given the Iraqis more respect if they had fought like this in the first place, a year ago. If they had shown the same amount of resolve and determination on day one they might not have been invaded so easily. It might even have ended up like Korea, (ok, not devided in half with one half poor and starving, but you know what i mean) where the two sides ground to a halt.

wreck
04-14-2004, 08:51 AM
True. What we're looking at is two different sides of the same coin.

I would have given the Iraqis more respect if they had fought like this in the first place, a year ago. If they had shown the same amount of resolve and determination on day one they might not have been invaded so easily. It might even have ended up like Korea, (ok, not devided in half with one half poor and starving, but you know what i mean) where the two sides ground to a halt.
Guess they're now fighting for Iraq and religion, before they were somewhat forced to fight for Saddam. Would have been a different show the whole GW2 in case all the cities would have been such "stalingrads" as some of them now seem to have transformed into.

Ballistic
04-14-2004, 12:53 PM
Any ideas on how to get the footage from thr ******* website ?? There are some interesting videos there.