Refusing to entertain the ADF in Iraq.

[jango]

A couple of weeks ago in the news there was a report about some rock bands turning down the offer to entertain Australian defence forces serving in Iraq becouse they disagreed with Australians involvment in the war there.

Now i respect their right to disagree with the goverments stand on Iraq but to then refuse to help the digger enjoy their christmas incountry is low and shameful. They should at least said that they still support the troops who are only following orders and that they support their effort on our behalf even if they do not agree with the goverment. But they did not do this. What are your thoughts about this?

[fuzzyramirez]

Support the troops, not the politicians.

[digrar]

I doubt the troops would want a visit from them anyway.

[winchester_down]

To me, if i was a band member/solo artist/comedian and if i had a political view that was against the invasion and current operations and this was the only thing that had to do with the issue, i would not do it,

because when you look back i could not justify to myself, in the only time i could act i was against my real view and i chose to put that view in the back seat even if this means not looking as if i support the troops.

Also lots of the footage coming back from the aussies there is of them playing cricket or having bbq's(I'm in no false assumptions about the hard work they are doin, day in day out for months) and so to add to this image of little danger eg having a band or act play, would send a signal different to my view of whats happening on a daily basis to the other soldiers and iraqi population.

If my views were in support of the operation/mission i would be more inclined to do it, but also i would consider the danger factor and like previously said, if they would want you to come.

And if i were in the troops position, i would find other ways of relieving stress and relaxing, but thats just me

[budgie]

Sadly whether or not they support the troops is no issue. The govt. is asking them to go to a war zone to play a concert for guys who they think shouldn`t have been sent. To do so would be risking their lives to tacitly validate the policy. They can play a concert when the Diggers get home.

[digrar]

The diggers would still not want to go to see them, or have them come and play for them. It's the old "if they don't support us they can go and get rooted" syndrome.

[rb132]

the diggers are in a warzone




there's no time to get comfortable and start celebrating

[kinsella]

look at the dixie chicks and the fallout with thier fans when they just said something. no band in america would survive refusing to go play for the troops.

wheres your pride for your troops guys? do something nice for the guys putting themselves in harms way for ya'll

[rb132]

why should we?


i mean props to the diggers, and i respect anyone who wants to do something for their country, but i never asked them to join the army.

Most of Australia didnt want the iraq war, so why should we have anything to do with it? The prime minister is the one not doing the right thing by the troops by risking their necks in something we didnt have to be, or want to be, involved in in the first place. The best way to honour the troops would be to bring them home and let them spend christmas with their families back in oz.

[winchester_down]

why should we?


i mean props to the diggers, and i respect anyone who wants to do something for their country, but i never asked them to join the army.

Most of Australia didnt want the iraq war, so why should we have anything to do with it? The prime minister is the one not doing the right thing by the troops by risking their necks in something we didnt have to be, or want to be, involved in in the first place. The best way to honour the troops would be to bring them home and let them spend christmas with their families back in oz.

Well Said....

[ShotOver]

why should we?


i mean props to the diggers, and i respect anyone who wants to do something for their country, but i never asked them to join the army.

Most of Australia didnt want the iraq war, so why should we have anything to do with it? The prime minister is the one not doing the right thing by the troops by risking their necks in something we didnt have to be, or want to be, involved in in the first place. The best way to honour the troops would be to bring them home and let them spend christmas with their families back in oz.

Booo, get off the soap box. Wanker.

[rb132]

i see youve managed to hone your debating skills inbetween styling that great hair-do


when youve got more of an argument to present come and talk to us, you can get your mummy to help you with the big words if you like (ill send her over once she's finished at my place :))

[gaijinsamurai]

rb132, your attitude towards the men and women who serve your country is a disgrace.
Those soldiers may have volunteered to join the army, but they never volunteered to go to Iraq.
I agree that the war was a huge mistake, and I too never wanted to have anything to do with it.
But you obviously have never spent any time away from home overseas on a military deployment.
The two times I was in the Middle East, I was cynical about much of our mission, but appreciated the support we received from civilians back home, who were able to recognize the difference between us and the politicians who sent us over there. It did a lot for our morale.
If most Australians were like you, I'd feel really sorry for your men and women in uniform. They deserve better.

[digrar]

The diggers don't care if you respect them. They don't care about blokes like you at all, in fact you would probably be in danger if you were around them on the piss.
They don't care if lefty artists don't want to come out to visit them, they'll take a hundred Beccy Coles over one Peter Garratt.
And they don't want to come home for Christmas if it means leaving the job unfinished. You might think that is honouring them, they have pride and integrity and think it would be shamefull.

[ShotOver]

i see youve managed to hone your debating skills inbetween styling that great hair-do


when youve got more of an argument to present come and talk to us, you can get your mummy to help you with the big words if you like (ill send her over once she's finished at my place :))

Nice one mate, you put **** on my debating skills.... with a "your mum" joke, nah really - top points for that one, seriously good stuff.

You are exactly what gaijinsamurai said - a disgrace. It's bloody idiots like you who stood around with "No blood for oil" and sit at home complaining about how much the Howard government sucks and how wrong the war is. Pull your bloody head in because your attitude is disgusting.

Edit: Top post digrar.

[gaijinsamurai]

What is rb132 doing on this forum anyways? Seems to me like this is the wrong place for him. Perhaps he'd feel more at home with some emo/pacifist discussion forum.

[rb132]

rb132, your attitude towards the men and women who serve your country is a disgrace.
Those soldiers may have volunteered to join the army, but they never volunteered to go to Iraq.
I agree that the war was a huge mistake, and I too never wanted to have anything to do with it.
But you obviously have never spent any time away from home overseas on a military deployment.
The two times I was in the Middle East, I was cynical about much of our mission, but appreciated the support we received from civilians back home, who were able to recognize the difference between us and the politicians who sent us over there. It did a lot for our morale.
If most Australians were like you, I'd feel really sorry for your men and women in uniform. They deserve better.

sorry dad!


my opinion is my own, and im entitled to it. I never disrespected any of the soldiers, read my posts again. I disagreed with the war, i never degraded any of the soldiers so i'll thankyou to take that back. All i said is was that i never asked any of them to join up, which i didnt. If you join the army youll probably get deployed you might even have to kill people, and your not always going to agree with the deployment, thats the nature of joining the army and everyone who joins is aware of that. If you want to pick and choose deployments or never have to fire a gun or harm someone then dont join up, there is personal responsibility to be taken in going into the army,nobody's forcing them and if they feel so strongly about a deployment they dont want to go then nobody can force them to pick up a gun and shoot someone. Its called objection and its been done before.

If saying that sending soldiers that are representing our country to an illegal war, that risks their lives unnecessarily to help boost the prime ministers ego is disrespectful then you have a strange idea of what respect is all about my friend. They might want to get the job done, but they dont get to choose which war they fight or dont fight.

Dont forget that its not just soldiers on the front line that have to suffer consequences, the conflict has made the whole country unsafer and made australian citizens even more of a target.

[rb132]

What is rb132 doing on this forum anyways? Seems to me like this is the wrong place for him. Perhaps he'd feel more at home with some emo/pacifist discussion forum.


oh sorry is the forum only for benevolent opinions of certain conflicts


just because i dont agree with a certain war that makes me a pacifist? thats quite a conclusion you've jumped to there,maybe i should just be reasonable and do everything your way?

[rb132]

The diggers don't care if you respect them. They don't care about blokes like you at all, in fact you would probably be in danger if you were around them on the piss.
They don't care if lefty artists don't want to come out to visit them, they'll take a hundred Beccy Coles over one Peter Garratt.
And they don't want to come home for Christmas if it means leaving the job unfinished. You might think that is honouring them, they have pride and integrity and think it would be shamefull.


Are you the self appointed spokesman for the army now are you?

Ive got friends in the ADF,and they're more than happy to be around me.

Perhaps you mean the straight out of kapooka/im think im hard as fock-take some photos of me holding a gun/first time they've had a paycheck- 19 year old i can smash anyone grunt? Id actually prefer it if they didnt respect me,i dont need anyone whose missing a chromosome to talk to me.

Fortunatly my friends have grown out that bull**** and are a bit wiser which is why they have successful careers, Im not sure they would care for you speaking on their behalf about loyalty to the army or getting the job done.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

meh it's just the Libs being ****wits to try to drum up support for themselves. The ALP is just as bad.

[rb132]

Nice one mate, you put **** on my debating skills.... with a "your mum" joke, nah really - top points for that one, seriously good stuff.

You are exactly what gaijinsamurai said - a disgrace. It's bloody idiots like you who stood around with "No blood for oil" and sit at home complaining about how much the Howard government sucks and how wrong the war is. Pull your bloody head in because your attitude is disgusting.

Edit: Top post digrar.


my god you sound like a bitter old veteran who spends his days down at the RSL pissing and moaning about how things arent as good as they used to be

Those protestors you talk about are usually the ones that dont like to see their dads/brothers/sisters/uncles sent off to distant lands to get shot at by fu*ked up loonies with big guns for no good reason.Call them bloody idiots if you like, they sound fairly reasonable to me,and well within their rights.

It obviously upsets you a lot to have to hear an opinion that differs from you own but you'll find a lot of people in this world dont think like you do, its called variety and it usually eases boredem a great deal.

[gaijinsamurai]

rb132, there's nothing wrong with being against the war in Iraq, and I too think the whole mess was doomed from the start. I've been against it since the beginning.
But, it is obvious from your previous posts that you have no regard for the welfare of the men and women who are over there, doing the dirty work (other than to "bring them home", as if that's going to happen all of a sudden).
And yes, I do think this is the wrong forum for you if you have that sort of attitude, since a large percentage of the members are serving or ex-military.

[bruiserau]

Those protestors you talk about are usually the ones that dont like to see their dads/brothers/sisters/uncles sent off to distant lands to get shot at by fu*ked up loonies with big guns for no good reason.

I know my relatives don't hold up signs saying I kill babies to get oil? So you support them when they're in their own country but as soon as the government tells them to go somewhere you don't? You either support your troops or you don't, simple.

Any idea of which bands were asked to perform?

[rb132]

rb132, there's nothing wrong with being against the war in Iraq, and I too think the whole mess was doomed from the start. I've been against it since the beginning.
But, it is obvious from your previous posts that you have no regard for the welfare of the men and women who are over there, doing the dirty work (other than to "bring them home", as if that's going to happen all of a sudden).
And yes, I do think this is the wrong forum for you if you have that sort of attitude, since a large percentage of the members are serving or ex-military.


i cant remember a single post where i said i didnt care what happened to them, unless you understand bringing them home out of harms way asap to mean that i dont care? strange! I cant think of anything more caring.

However, if people want a safe working environment where they know everything is a-ok then the army probably is a bad choice, and its their choice.

[rb132]

I know my relatives don't hold up signs saying I kill babies to get oil? So you support them when they're in their own country but as soon as the government tells them to go somewhere you don't? You either support your troops or you don't, simple.

Any idea of which bands were asked to perform?


If you want to support them, get them out of a war most people never wanted to be in. Dont try and make out people who are against the war are against the troops because its just a lame tactic people use to try and smoke out the 'unpatriotic' to bolster their own dwindling pride. If your idea of patriotism is to support an illegal war at the cost of soldier's lives (its already cost one) then id rather be unpatriotic.

Theres never once been a protest in this country against the troops regarding the iraq war, its always been a protest against the government.

[LRPV]

Got to agree with Digrar.

[ShotOver]

rb132, you ever served? I want a yes or no answer. If the answer is "no" then you are talking about of your arse in every single one of your posts on this thread.

[rb132]

why? does serving in the army give you the edge when it comes to commenting on foreign affairs and morality does it?


in any case, if you are in the army your probably less likely to be able to give a clear and objective view on the state of affairs because youve had the 'loyalty to the army' bull**** drilled into for you for however long youve been serving. Dont worry, that will wear off after youve sat in the bush eating crap food for weeks on end and doing forced pack marches with no sleep for 3 days, just give it a few years.

[ShotOver]

See, I asked for a yes or no answer there buddy. I don't need some art fag lefty telling me anything about how I view the world. Your arse got handed well and truly to you by digrar, so I suggest you just pull your head in because your not going to last on this site.

[rb132]

be we were getting on so well PT, whats happened between us, youve changed.


Firstly, its none of your business if ive served or not, so stop asking me.


Secondly, the rest of the people who dont agree with what you think about in this world (which is probably the majority) aren't arty liberal 'fag's. They're just everyday people who feel sorry for people like you.


As far as Digrar's comments go, im quite happy that i wouldnt be welcome around a group of pisshead yobbo's who think their battallion is invincible compared to somebody else's battallion. Id rather save my time for real soldiers who dont have their heads up their arses and have actually cracked off a few rounds other than in training.

[gaijinsamurai]

Those "real soldiers" would probably kick your ass, rb132. Best be careful.

[rb132]

Those "real soldiers" would probably kick your ass, rb132. Best be careful.


well so far my friend hasnt 'kicked my arse' so its appears i dont have to be so careful after all


thanks for the tip anyway though fella

[LRPV]

well so far my friend hasnt 'kicked my arse' so its appears i dont have to be so careful after all


thanks for the tip anyway though fella

You have gone from friends in the ADF as in plural, to the singular "my friend". Make your mind up. You are coming across as a bull****ter.

As for not answering PTs question, yes it is not his right to know. However you seem to claim credability I doubt you have earnt.

As for your crap about diggers having views imposed upon them...the ADF is apolitical. If you had served you would know that while politics is discussed from time to time amongst the blokes, no-one rams home an "ADF" political indoctrination. That is an insult to all of us who have or still are serving. Belief it or not, under the jelly-bean pyjamas lurks a soldier that can think for himself (or herself). Don't have or need political indoctrination.

[rb132]

You have gone from friends in the ADF as in plural, to the singular "my friend". Make your mind up. You are coming across as a bull****ter.

Only one of my friends in the ADF fits this bill when it comes to shooting a rifle somewhere other than training. Nice try though,



As for not answering PTs question, yes it is not his right to know. However you seem to claim credability I doubt you have earnt.


Who are you to question other peoples credibility? Maybe you could enlighten us all with your creditentials? Nobody would be under any burden to believe you of course, because your just another name on the internet, like i am.


As for your crap about diggers having views imposed upon them...the ADF is apolitical. If you had served you would know that while politics is discussed from time to time amongst the blokes, no-one rams home an "ADF" political indoctrination. That is an insult to all of us who have or still are serving. Belief it or not, under the jelly-bean pyjamas lurks a soldier that can think for himself (or herself). Don't have or need political indoctrination.

Do you actually believe this? It sounds like your reading it off the back of a 'join the army' pamphlet.

[kinsella]

Who are you to question other peoples credibility? Maybe you could enlighten us all with your creditentials? Nobody would be under any burden to believe you of course, because your just another name on the internet, like i am.


anytime someone makes a statment that eludes to the fact they are in the know and there is a question to the validity of that claim, the person is called on it. it is then up to you to show/prove/convince the rest that you are what you have claimed.

call it the house rules if you want. either way, its not something that will be let go until either you put up or shut up.

just lettin ya know how its done here. you have been called out, so now you must prove it. not doing so will lead to you being banned. happen just the other night.

good luck dude.

[LRPV]

Only one of my friends in the ADF fits this bill when it comes to shooting a rifle somewhere other than training. Nice try though,

Who are you to question other peoples credibility? Maybe you could enlighten us all with your creditentials? Nobody would be under any burden to believe you of course, because your just another name on the internet, like i am.

Do you actually believe this? It sounds like your reading it off the back of a 'join the army' pamphlet.

Wrong. There are Australian mods that can verify my past and current service. In fact should you so desire...you have my agreement to contact Chops , Digrar et al and I will supply them with what they need to know.

As for you...can you meet my challenge?

You are a stain on this board. Like most stains that come here to mouth off, they are removed.

As another member has stated...put up or shut up.

[gaijinsamurai]

Perhaps now this thread can die, now that the troll has been suspended.
Thank you, mods.

[ShotOver]

I'm glad I walked away from this thread, I would probally said somthing I would regret. Ah well, all good. Cheers Chops.