Chechen combat footage

[gregb]

As u probably know since 1999 the Chechens / Russians have been fighting another brutal and bloody war. The chechens for various reasons dont engage in the big set piece battles of the 1994 - 1996 war but instead reley on guerrilla tatics.The Guerillas usually work in small teams of about 5-10 men of which work independently to each other depending on which warlord they work for. As their ambushes are planned at ground level , proof of a successesfull mission is required if they are to be paid by their commander. For this reason they usually video tape ( 95% with a camcorder) their explotes be it a remote controlled mine explosion ( their favourate ) or a ambush using rpgs small arms etc all the time shouting " Allah Ackbar " as their bombs or bullets kill Russians ( mad bastards ). You can view many of these ambushes using windows media player or real player in streaming form at this website.

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/video/


If u view these plz post your coments on what u saw .

[JohnJohn]

I ain't clicking or watching that ****. Why the **** do you need to see that?

Do you get off on this **** you sick bastard? :bash:

Get a life loser. Damn ghouls I swear.

[gregb]

I ain't clicking or watching that ****. Why the f*** do you need to see that?

Do you get off on this **** you sick bastard? :bash:

Get a life loser. Damn ghouls I swear.



First of all can i ask why you are not interested in seeing any of the footage ?

Secondly , i dont get off on that **** , the reason i posted it is because it has military content.Yes you do see people get killed for real , but that is the reality of WAR , And without war there would be no need for the military, or this website for that matter.
P.S sorry for posting this thread here , i know it belongs in the photo video section.I'll know the next time.

[JohnJohn]

The reason I don't like this **** on the internet?

People who have no reason to be seeing this **** are watching it, you have little kids that should never have access to this junk looking at it.

You ever been in the same room as a dead person before? I'm not talkin' about a funeral or anything like that, I am talking about a fresh, dead, bleeding human being man. It isn't like in these internet videos where you can just shut it off and make it go away, it is REAL.

These are real people dying, there is nothing great about it and frankly I am sick and tired of this trash being paraded around like it is nothing. Have some respect.

I've been in El Salvador, Honduras, Chile, Mexico, Nicaragua, and alot more countries than that man. Hell, in Cuba you'd always know when someone gave up the ghost because you'd hear the damn landmines go off. I've seen my share of death, hell, I've lost family members because of this sort of crap.

How about having footage of your uncle burn to death play live on TV over and over until it got old? How about having your cousin with a bright future ahead of him get beat so bad that he'll never walk again or be a regular part of society once more? Or some bitch claiming to be your family member's girlfriend and then getting some ass to stab him to death on the street only to have people leave him there to die a few minutes away from a hospital? Or maybe the best footage you types would like to see if that of my cousin who ended his life in front of a train? It makes me sick to see how bad you people have deteriorated and have been desensitized to such horrible things.

Spreading this **** doesn't help, even if you don't get off on it, whats the point in spreading it around? You know there are sickos out there that do who knows what with this. There is no use for this to be floating around, it is not free speech, it is disgusting and immoral :|

[gregb]

The reason I don't like this **** on the internet?

People who have no reason to be seeing this **** are watching it, you have little kids that should never have access to this junk looking at it.

You ever been in the same room as a dead person before? I'm not talkin' about a funeral or anything like that, I am talking about a fresh, dead, bleeding human being man. It isn't like in these internet videos where you can just shut it off and make it go away, it is REAL.

These are real people dying, there is nothing great about it and frankly I am sick and tired of this trash being paraded around like it is nothing. Have some respect.

I've been in El Salvador, Honduras, Chile, Mexico, Nicaragua, and alot more countries than that man. I've seen my share of death, hell, I've lost family members down because of that crap.

Spreading this **** doesn't help, even if you don't get off on it, whats the point in spreading it around? You know there are sickos out there that do who knows what with this. There is no use for this to be floating around, it is not free speech, it is disgusting and immoral

Well OPINIONS are like ASSHOLES , everyone has one. Thanks for yours JohnJohn :D [/quote]

[JohnJohn]

**** off you sick peice of trash. This ain't opinion, its truth. You just don't value human life, well guess what? Wake up, this ain't no video game son.

Get a life and go do something useful before you lose yours.

[gregb]

JohnJohn this is my last post to you for the time being as we r going to deviate from the subject of the thread and other readers are gonna get bored with our rantings to each other.

Just to reiterate OPINIONS are like ASSHOLES , everyone has one. Thanks for yours .


f*** off you sick peice of trash. This ain't opinion, its truth. You just don't value human life, well guess what? Wake up, this ain't no video game son.

As i believe you are not A God , the Messiah , the universes super being or a world authority on all facts and truths ever to be proven in the history of the world , then i can confidently say your last comment is your OPINION of what YOU think is the TRUTH.
Nothing more and nothing lese.

[JohnJohn]

Its common sense, think once in a while, maybe you'll get somewhere.

Probably not seeing how you are so stupid as to not use common sense.

You are probably some 14 year old ghoul looking for kicks and attention. Like I said before, GET A LIFE.

Maybe you need to see the real deal in order for it to sink into your thick skull, sad if you ask me. I hope you never have to, and seeing how you love assholes so much, I hope that maybe one day you can pull your head out of yours and take a look around outside of your cushioned video game computer bubble.

[Chris1]

as much as I hate to say it (and I do, look at his sig :) ) I agree with JohnJohn here, why do you want or need to see this?
It is young soldiers lives ending.
That should not be posted for yours and others enjoyment.
If you want the reality of war, there are many options available to you to experiance it.
Those videos are not the reality of war, they are an image of it and disgusting ones at that.
If you wish to view such images, fine. I can't stop you and wouldn't want to, but please show some respect for the soldiers who die in front of your eyes and don't post it for all to find.
I'm not going to ask for this to be deleted, or you to edit out the link, but I shall say I hope you do.

[maw]

gregb: you are indirectly promoting and glorifying the cause for habibi islam. the chechen's don't want peace, it is a country controlled by warlords who thrive on chaos and use religous fervor to futher their individual causes.
on another note, the clock is ticking for the chechen extremists, from georgia, to afghanistan and all the way down to the sudan when one talks of payback, the first group everyone wants get first is those f**cks. when they did what they did on that hill in 'stan, it was a wake up call for us. any group or nation that thinks that the us won't take its gloves off and fight down and dirty will have the mother of wake up calls.

[papabear]

Yes, this site is certainly one of the "dark sides" of the Internet...

[hood]

So gregb, do they also need to get the war crimes such as beheadings, slow brutal torture of captured enemy soldiers, and executions on tape to get paid or is that just for fun? Can you explain how the Chechen rebels are on the right side when they do such things? Please don't use "the Russians do it too" in your answer.

[Ichhabe]

I support JohnJohn on this aswell. Wont click on that thread to watch such ****. By doing that it is my opinion that you support them that has put it up aswell.
Death aint made to amuse or entertain.

[HotelSecurity]

A lot of kids think death and dying and guns is cool because they've played their share of video games and watch movies. Unfortunately, I've seen this before. When the hostage crisis in the Russian theatre occurred, I was in an IRC chat room and kids were cheering saying "Wow, Go Spetznaz!" and the such as if they were watching a sporting event. Death and dying isn't cool, and unlike freakin video games, there's no respawn. Unfortunately, people that play these games and watch too many military shows on TV think they're experts on the subject.

[khukuri]

Great post gregb. Really interesting footage!
I agree with you on all points.
By the way, we have to have a forum were we can discuss things like theese footages. This whole site is about posting visuals from military, alot og the photos here are from gulf war for example, why is that okay and not chechnya!

One another thing, whether we like chechens or not, the footage is interesting and you can learn from it even if you dont support the chechens.

Kids can see stuff of the same level at cnn!

[khukuri]

[quote="maw"]gregb: you are indirectly promoting and glorifying the cause for habibi islam. the chechen's don't want peace, it is a country controlled by warlords who thrive on chaos and use religous fervor to futher their individual causes.



Not watching whats really going on frmo the both sides are blindess and foolness. Get you own idea, i dont like osama but i still look at his speaches, NAD NO I DONT SUPPORT HIM just because i listen to what he have to say!

Open your eyes and dont be so ignorant and blind! Watching chechen footage doesnt mean that you support them!

[hood]

actually there is a chechan gallery under contemporary photos.

[rob]

i agree that it is disrespectful to view these soldiers dying. i can imagine what the family members of the soldiers who died in somolia felt like when they saw their sons, brothers, or fathers draged through the street like a piece of mean. and the stations kept playing the tapes over and over. but this is america and people can do this, it is part of the amendments. i will not ask you to delete this post like everyone else but i do ask that you do what you feel is right.

as for the chechen war. this is the speach of the chechen leader adressed to russian and chechen soldiers when the russians chose to withdraw.

"everyone had is own understanding of this war. this side say they were protecting constitutional order, maintaining territorial integrity, that one can also understand. our side were rotecting our homeland against the destruction of a people, we want no one to be given the right to annihilate the chechen people on chechen land. the most important thing today is to understand that we must not use war, force and barbarity as a means to an end, as so many poiticians want us to, as a step to power. please, for god's sake today it is very important that each of you understands that we are entrusting the way to peace to you and it depends on each one of you. you must go with and chechen, stand next to him, serve next to him, live next to him, eat with him, drink with him, you all say how they were bombing killing how your comrades were dying but you must keep it to yourself, deep down." this is from the book Chechnya written by two journalist that were there for the entire conflict. seems to be very accurate most respects.

the politics behind the war are very interesting. chechens were deported and killed by the russians and the russian president saw the war as an easy victory that would boost his popularity in the next election. often times in the war chechen and russian troops formed a cease fire between units of the russian army that are cut off from the rest. war is brutal, no matter who fights it.

[gregb]

Guys im nether for or against chechnya / Russia in this coflict .I have absolutley nothing to do with anything Russian / chechen . I am completley neutral .
I was surfing the net came across this material, thought some people might be interested in it as it has military content - so i posted a link , to -which i wrote a brief summary to give the member / visitor a idea as to the background of the FOOTAGE without having to trawl through the parent site.

Thanks for your comments , :P

[budanski]

Wow. when did we all become Stephen Funks on this board? For a bunch of warmongers on this site, you guys seem a bit too sensitive, last i checked its called militaryphotos. If it offends you, don't click the url and don't associate with all things military.

And for amatuer folks like me who are interested in all things military, give us a chance to see what others can offer to this forum.

[Mortimer]

Hmm learnt some good things from watching those movies....never ride on the top of a tank.

[khukuri]

Hmm learnt some good things from watching those movies....never ride on the top of a tank.

Of course not! So unproffesional, i know its hot but in war you follow the rules. No offense but russian soldiers are really undisciplined. Or maybe its their officers fault.

[Doggonit55]

Wow. when did we all become Stephen Funks on this board? For a bunch of warmongers on this site, you guys seem a bit too sensitive, last i checked its called militaryphotos. If it offends you, don't click the url and don't associate with all things military.

And for amatuer folks like me who are interested in all things military, give us a chance to see what others can offer to this forum.

JohnJohn is a such a liberal pussy. I bet you take it up the rear every day, JJ. :bash:

[JohnJohn]

what the ****? Never call me a liberal dumbass :bash:

I'm a republican until the day that I die, maybe not as radical as you'd like(never come across that problem before) but maybe its because I have a sense of decency.

Idiot I swear, if you had any knowledge of me and my family you'd know that we've always been on the right, we've all done service for our country and have gone out of our way to support our republican candidates.

Never in my life have I been called a liberal, until I came across you kid.

Just because I don't enjoy the exploitation and parading around of media depicting the actual death of real people and still somehow respect human life after being bombarded with all this **** from you idiot types, I am somehow a liberal? :lol:

Take a walk kid, grow up :bash:

[USAF G]

Johnjohn,

Don't worry, he called me a liberal for not wanting to kill everyone in Africa. Some people just can't come to terms with the idea that everyone else isn't just like them. :backhand:

[gregb]

Idiot I swear, if you had any knowledge of me and my family



JohnJohn after reading some of your comments and posts on these boards , I do believe i have gained some Knowledge of you.

You are a uptight , arrogant , obnoxious , cheeky S. O . B

Nothing personal.

[hood]

So this is neutral?


shouting " Allah Ackbar " as their bombs or bullets kill Russians ( mad bastards ).

[Doggonit55]

Johnjohn,

Don't worry, he called me a liberal for not wanting to kill everyone in Africa. Some people just can't come to terms with the idea that everyone else isn't just like them. :backhand:

Keep on deceiving yourself. Dream on. Great job. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

[Doggonit55]

Idiot I swear, if you had any knowledge of me and my family



JohnJohn after reading some of your comments and posts on these boards , I do believe i have gained some Knowledge of you.

You are a uptight , arrogant , obnoxious , cheeky S. O . B

Nothing personal.
woot woot woot woot

[gregb]

So this is neutral?

Quote:
shouting " Allah Ackbar " as their bombs or bullets kill Russians ( mad bastards ).


YES THAT IS NEUTRAL............... Hood ,, go get some medication or something because you are physco

[papabear]

Mr. Moderator undoubtedly you are a gentleman and can handle an insult like that, but I think someone needs a public rebuke for a comment like that.

[Trigger]

gregb you are a textbook example of a 'Punk-ass Bitch'.
Do us a favor and drop dead.
I hope Hood drops the hammer on you.

[hood]

haha trigger, your avatar breaks any seriousness I had in me. gregb, by saying that you were neutral, you were saying that you were presenting it without opinion of a preference... how can you label the russians as mad bastards and say that you aren't giving your opinion when you just did?

[Paranoid Andrew]

Oh God, who gives a ****? Stop nitpicking. Why does everyone on every forum I've ever been on seem to have a permanent stick shoved up their ass? Yeah, I'm 18 years old, I play Operation Flashpoint, and I'm a morbid, insensitive bastard who likes to watch crazy Muslim ****ers in Chechnya dialing 1-800-KABOOM. I also think Gulf War 2 was the coolest reality TV show ever. So what? I'm not going to cry over a bunch of bloody lunatics killing each other on the other side of the world. Yeah, I'm desensitized. No, I don't know what it's like to see someone killed right in front of me, and I hope I never do. I'm sorry if you have, but it's not my problem. It would be nice if we could just discuss the videos in a calm, mature and intelligent fashion, but instead, as usual on this site, some asshole has to start a holy war against everyone who might enjoy the subject, accusing them all of being 14 years old (why is it always 14? Why not thirteen, or fifteen?). Hopefully the real 14-year-olds will join in soon, so the thread will become completely useless.

[hood]

I'm also an avid player of video games, but intelligence is when you enjoy a fantasy video game, but are disgusted when it's the real thing. If you're genuinely desensitized to real world blood and torture because of video games, then I feel sorry for you. Intelligent people, no matter how many games they play, should always feel a big difference between what you know is fantasy, and what you know is real.

[Dmitri]

Mortimer wrote:
Hmm learnt some good things from watching those movies....never ride on the top of a tank.


Of course not! So unproffesional, i know its hot but in war you follow the rules. No offense but russian soldiers are really undisciplined. Or maybe its their officers fault.


I saw one footage like that, may be the same one, but anyways, if its a tank, where are you sit??? Sometimes you need to get somewhere and that could be the only available transportation they had. If it was BMP, it could already be full, don't know. Plus, may be you think that anyone inside of it survived? When you roll over a huge mine nothing will save you.

[Trident-za]

I'm also an avid player of video games, but intelligence is when you enjoy a fantasy video game, but are disgusted when it's the real thing. If you're genuinely desensitized to real world blood and torture because of video games, then I feel sorry for you. Intelligent people, no matter how many games they play, should always feel a big difference between what you know is fantasy, and what you know is real.

Yes, I was completely disgusted by the CNN footage of the bombing of Baghdad.... and yet millions of people where entralled. There were people dying there, people with mothers, fathers etc. And we watched it LIVE, not as some video clip to be downloaded months after the fact. And before you accuse me of being a "liberal" - I have served in the military, I have seen people shot and killed. It sucks, even if it is necessary....

I agree with the fact that watching this kind of footage is not cool, and I am definitely not "desensitized" to watching violence. However, I find it strange that people who know the names of just about every piece of weaponry, or the accessories, are so troubled by seeing the effects of these weapons in action. Good grief, that weapon that you can name blindfolded, when fired at someone, produces the same result as that portrayed on the videos (I assume, I haven't downloaded them). People get shot, they bleed, they break apart, it's war, it sucks.....

My point is this: although I personally wouldn't want to download the graphic video clips, I suspect that some of the people posting here have distanced themselves from the reality of war by turning it into a "can you name this weapon" competition. Get real! Weapons kill, and horribly.

[Trigger]

@Trident-za: I think people were more upset by the sponsors of the website(s) where those clips were being featured, and the fact that those sites were rejoicing in the death and misery being portrayed. :|

[gregb]

@Trident-za: I think people were more upset by the sponsors of the website(s) where those clips were being featured, and the fact that those sites were rejoicing in the death and misery being portrayed.


Thats the reason why i posted a link directly to the streaming video and gave a brief background summary , so as u didnt have to trawl through or look at the website.
It had fuk all to do with being pro chechen pro russian pro terrorist blah blah blah.
It was all about the footage , Combat > Soldiers > Weapons > ambushes > Equipment > Military tatics , everything that this website is about.

Yet some of you still had to , twist , turn this into some sort of hypocritical moral crusade.

Watch it for the military content, and if the death bothers you , then just imagine that its a hollywood movie and count the fatalities amongst the countless thousands of graphic deaths that youve seen on the big Screen

For anyone who has seen any of the footage. The sequence when the rebel shoots down the MI24 Hind with the shoulder fired rocket. what weapon system was used ? and roughly how far do u think the distance was to the target?

[hood]

and if the death bothers you , then just imagine that its a hollywood movie

That's one of the most immature statements I've heard in a while.

[Vance]

This whole thread is crap. Just delete it or lock it or something.

[rob]

and if the death bothers you , then just imagine that its a hollywood movie

but it is not a hollywood movie you have to realize this. in a hollywood movie when the director says cut all that have fallen get up. but every one of the soldiers that gets dies in that fottage is real. he will not get up when all is said and done. he will not return to his family like hollywood actors do after a day of "shooting". i am not liberal and i never will be but i have respect for those that have died. i am not pro chechen or pro russian but i realize that they are poeple with lives too. like i said if you had a son that died would you want people looking at him being killed like it was a movie. ofcourse not. but i can not stop you from looking at this footage and the some soldiers fight and die to make sure you can do that. have some respect for them. if the media chooses to show this stuff llive or what not i can respect that. this entire thread is crap. you should delete every thing except for the link. leave it there for those that want to see, it is their right. but i will pass.

[Ichhabe]

gregb said:





Yet some of you still had to , twist , turn this into some sort of hypocritical moral crusade.

Watch it for the military content, and if the death bothers you , then just imagine that its a hollywood movie and count the fatalities amongst the countless thousands of graphic deaths that youve seen on the big Screen



Not even woodland would have comed up with that one. Cheezuz.

I have served here and there in some bad parts of the world, seen some stuff that I would prefer not seeing, doing some stuff that I'd never dreamed of doing when I was a kid.

BUT!!! I can't for the love of (put in whatever u belive in) sit down and look at people getting killed in my own living room using the excuse; "learning military tactics."
It aint about hypocritical moral. It is about respect for other human beings, and deceancy (spelling). As simple as that.

[Mortimer]

Heres a can of harden the **** up for all you moral human beings.....

[Trigger]

Here's a can of 'Grow the F*** Up' for all you pre-adolescent know-it-alls who have no clue about the difference between reality and fantasy and real life and death. :slap:

[hood]

Why should we harden up? If actual combat veterans are saying that you're too desensitized, shouldn't that give you some pause?

[rob]

Heres a can of harden the f*** up for all you moral human beings.....

that was almost as stupid as the just imagine it is a hollywood movie remark.

[Mortimer]

all i can do is echo what a lot of people have already said in this post.
You'll look at military pictures but when it comes to the real thing then its to much.

Just think about what you guys are supporting by coming here. I'm not saying this site supports the Russian Chechen war but the whole agressive nature of humans.

And if the veterans think that what they have seen and those clips are to much then don't watch them....It just life and has been happening for thousands and thousands of years.

[Paranoid Andrew]

That's one of the most immature statements I've heard in a while.

I think you misinterpreted what he said. I think what he meant was, "if you're so easily-offended and delicate that you can't bear to watch grainy cam-corder footage of a distant foreign war, just pretend it's a movie. Not so bad by Hollywood standards, is it?" Of course, this misses the point. The other side's complaint is precisely that some people might watch these videos the same way they watch a Hollywood movie.

Do you realize how ridiculous your argument really is, guys? If you think it's shocking and outrageous for this kind of stuff to be posted on this site, where all kinds of deranged munchkins can get ahold of it on Mom's computer, you ought to be offended by the very existence of this site. How is reading about this kind of stuff or seeing pictures of it fundamentally any different than watching video clips of it? Shouldn't you be so disgusted at the site of a tank or a soldier that you would never think of looking at a site like this, much less registering yourself on its forums?

I don't think there are nearly as many of these people who can't distinguish fantasy from reality on this board as you're afraid of. Why not assume that everyone here is a mature, intelligent adult until they prove otherwise? Instead of freaking out before anyone has even said anything.


I'm also an avid player of video games, but intelligence is when you enjoy a fantasy video game, but are disgusted when it's the real thing. If you're genuinely desensitized to real world blood and torture because of video games, then I feel sorry for you. Intelligent people, no matter how many games they play, should always feel a big difference between what you know is fantasy, and what you know is real.

Case in point. WHO here has said anything to indicate they don't understand that difference? (besides me, and I was being facetious)

Believe it or not, it is possible to watch images of war without being either a deranged adolescent or a preachy, uptight jerk. There is a third way! You can watch them for what they are: IMAGES OF WAR. Not a movie. Not a video game. Not an opportunity to browbeat people who haven't done or said anything wrong.


Yes, I was completely disgusted by the CNN footage of the bombing of Baghdad.... and yet millions of people where entralled. There were people dying there, people with mothers, fathers etc.

First of all, the footage you saw was of government buildings, palaces and military installations. Second, they were almost certainly empty, and third, in case they weren't, the people inside them were members of the regime who deserved to die. I'm sure they all had parents, then or at one point, but so what?



but i can not stop you from looking at this footage and the some soldiers fight and die to make sure you can do that. have some respect for them.

Carpet-bombing, civilian-butchering Russians and crazed, bloodthirsty Muslim terrorists deserve my respect? I don't think so. I hope they burn in Hell for all the suffering they've caused.

[Mortimer]

I agree with what Andrew said about the footage. the photos that are posted in this site are no different morally then those clips.

However i would disagree with the rest. i respect anyone who fights for a cause that they believe in....we fight for our cause, its the same thing. Just becasue they have a different cause doesn't mean they are not human.

The kind of mentality that Andrew is demonstrating is probably the only reason why there are wars in this world(when is comes down to it).

[reverence]

I guess we can all agree to disagree. There are kids watching that stuff out of morbid fascination(its been going on since before the Romans had Gladiators and lion feeding)There are people who are disgusted and dont want to watch it and there are soldiers like me who prefer not to stick my head in the sand but instead crave any knowledge that may make an operation successful or save one of my mates lives. I learn a lot from footage like this-no I dont think its a laugh but it is reality and it is my job.The military (and civillian agencies like police, fire and ambulance) do use horrific photos and tapes to desensitise people. It is better for a medic for example to be exposed to what modern weapons will do to a human being in this way so its not a psychologically debilitating experience the first time they treat a landmine victim for instance. When viewing such footage I remain objective and clinical-why did they choose that site for an ambush, how far apart were the vehicles,how was it initiated can I employ those methods or counter them etc. I dont want my children seeing it and if you dont want to watch it then dont. I've been on operations overseas and helped with motor vehicle accidents etc at home and believe there are benefits in self exposure to some of these things.

[GazB]

"Of course not! So unproffesional, i know its hot but in war you follow the rules. No offense but russian soldiers are really undisciplined. Or maybe its their officers fault."

One of the greatest threats to a tank is a landmine or an RPG or missile. If you think it is any nicer inside a tank when either of those things are encountered then I hereby christen you "Newbee". Choosing to call the Russians unprofessional, or undisciplined, or trying to blame their officers just reaffirms this name for you.


"However, I find it strange that people who know the names of just about every piece of weaponry, or the accessories, are so troubled by seeing the effects of these weapons in action."

You find it strange that someone can recognise some design enginuity, and still not like that interesting design be used to kill people???
Perhaps you need a reality check?

"Get real! Weapons kill, and horribly."

Of course they can, but they don't have to. I have several military rifles and not one of them has been used in anger to kill or hurt or even threaten someone since I bought them. The fact that they were designed to kill does not mean they have to be used to kill.

"Heres a can of harden the f*** up for all you moral human beings....."

So you are immoral then I guess?

[Paranoid Andrew]

However i would disagree with the rest. i respect anyone who fights for a cause that they believe in....we fight for our cause, its the same thing. Just becasue they have a different cause doesn't mean they are not human.

It's not the same thing at all. Last time I checked, "our" cause didn't involve flattening cities or exterminating an entire race of people. I can't respect anyone who fights for an evil cause, no matter how strongly they believe in it. In fact, the more strongly they believe in it, the more strongly I think they should be put to death for the sake and safety of all their potential victims.


The kind of mentality that Andrew is demonstrating is probably the only reason why there are wars in this world(when is comes down to it).

Really? How do you figure?

[Mortimer]

Carpet-bombing, civilian-butchering Russians and crazed, bloodthirsty Muslim terrorists deserve my respect? I don't think so. I hope they burn in Hell for all the suffering they've caused.

What about the suffering the US has caused in Vietnam, Korea, Anywhere in the middle east? what about the suffering the British caused during the days of the Empire?Those blood thirsy muslims see you the same way.


First of all, the footage you saw was of government buildings, palaces and military installations. Second, they were almost certainly empty, and third, in case they weren't, the people inside them were members of the regime who deserved to die. I'm sure they all had parents, then or at one point, but so what?

How can you be so nieve? even the members of the regime were just like you and me..trying to get by, not ALL people in that regime necessarily support what it did.


It's not the same thing at all. Last time I checked, "our" cause didn't involve flattening cities or exterminating an entire race of people. I can't respect anyone who fights for an evil cause, no matter how strongly they believe in it. In fact, the more strongly they believe in it, the more strongly I think they should be put to death for the sake and safety of all their potential victims.
please....think about what you said that's a very self centered comment, your only looking at it from your perspective and what your government has 'told' you.

All i'm saying is there are two sides to a battle and you and a lot of others here are showing the typical traits of an arrogant American.

By arrogant i mean you guys are so enured by YOUR cause you won't see anything else, its almost apathetic.

[Fargin]

I only had time to see the first: "Missile strikes on the enemy positions", which wasn't very controvercial. Most normal people have a feeling of ambivalence then being confronted with footage of death and destruction. One is both intrigued and disgusted, sometimes more the one than the other.

Is there a differemce between seeing a running white image in a thermal sight from a AC-130 gunship and a small dark dot falling from the burning World Trade Center? One is a civilian the other a possible member of Al Queda. Both images fasinate me, but both also make me feel sick. Seeing a humanbeing being destroyed is a pretty ugly experience, but it's hard to take your eyes of the image.



Don't display lack of selfcontrole, by bursting out with obscenities. I really hate people becoming so emptional in public, and whatever intelligent point you're trying to make, disappears.

[budanski]

Nothing like enjoying a cold beer, eating a steak while in my underwear and watching war footages on my computer !

Life is Good.

[Fargin]

LOL -Guess I'll never feel alone anymore.

[Duke]

"Get real! Weapons kill, and horribly."

Of course they can, but they don't have to. I have several military rifles and not one of them has been used in anger to kill or hurt or even threaten someone since I bought them. The fact that they were designed to kill does not mean they have to be used to kill.

What the F*** does "The fact that they were designed to kill does not mean they have to be used to kill." mean?? By far, the most idiotic and irresponsible statement on guns on this forum. Firearms kill--that's what they are designed and built for to kill. There's no POLICTICALLY CORRECT way of describing firearms. And I thought you wouldn't log on here, DAMN.

[GazB]

"There's no POLICTICALLY CORRECT way of describing firearms. "

Yes, I am politically correct. That is why I am interested in firearms.

It is much more fun to kill people or look at pictures and video footage of people getting killed than being interested in perhaps uniforms, or firearms, or vehicles and equipment.
That is why all of the video and pictures here are of children with severed heads and people shot or hacked to death... oohh no, wait a minute there aren't any photos like that here... hmmm wonder why?

If we were interested in death I am sure we would already have links to such places... they are certainly easy enough to find.
Interest in military forces or equipment is not the same thing... the fact that you don't realise this puts you in the same category as those silly femenists who claim interest in guns and hunting and blood sports is all about phallic worship... yes, I always take a .57 cal rifle when I go rabbit shooting...

[Duke]

Immature, ignorant and armed; THE most deadly combination.

[Paranoid Andrew]

What about the suffering the US has caused in Vietnam, Korea, Anywhere in the middle east? what about the suffering the British caused during the days of the Empire?Those blood thirsy muslims see you the same way.

Ah, well, you got me. I guess if we've done it in the past it's okay for everyone to do it. Yeah, we killed hundreds of thousands of people in Korea, civilians many of them. In the early 1950s in what some called World War 2.5. The point is, we don't fight like that anymore. The Russians do. They haven't fundamentally changed their conventional military tactics since 1945, as Afghanistan and Chechnya have demonstrated. As for the British Empire, it was not particularly brutal by world empire standards. Most of its former colonies, especially in Africa, are far worse off now than they were under colonial rule. Then again, that could be the fault of the British as well, for leaving them with no preparation for supporting themselves on their own. As for the Muslims, I don't really care what they think about anything, because their worldview is so ignorant and utterly detached from reality.


How can you be so nieve? even the members of the regime were just like you and me..trying to get by, not ALL people in that regime necessarily support what it did.

When I say "regime", I mean the people at the very top, the ones responsible for the oppression and brutality in that country, not the legions of poor schmucks who filed their paperwork or made them coffee. The upper echelon Baathists were nothing like you and me; they were murderous, bloody-minded thugs, and every one of them deserved to be vaporized by a satellite-guided bomb or cruise missile.


please....think about what you said that's a very self centered comment, your only looking at it from your perspective and what your government has 'told' you.

I don't recall my government 'telling me' any of this. Certainly they haven't 'told' me anything about Chechnya. And they in fact did a piss-poor job, in my opinion, of explaining their reason for going to war in Iraq, I think because they were afraid to admit the real reason, which was something along the lines of finishing the job we failed to do in 1991 and ending the whole expensive, stupid no-fly zone game, as well as proving to the Arabs that we will only be jerked around for so long before we get serious. The whole 'WMD' thing was probably the weakest excuse for going to war, and the media should never have been allowed to present it as the only reason.


All i'm saying is there are two sides to a battle and you and a lot of others here are showing the typical traits of an arrogant American.

By arrogant i mean you guys are so enured by YOUR cause you won't see anything else, its almost apathetic.

If more Americans truly understood both sides of the battle in Chechnya, they would realize the Russians are only making things worse for us by committing atrocities against civilians and stirring up Muslim extremism in the region. The Russians are doing in Chechnya what everyone said we would do by going into Iraq -- creating more terrorism, not less.

[Mortimer]

Ok that makes a bit more sense

[khukuri]

[quote="GazB"]"Of course not! So unproffesional, i know its hot but in war you follow the rules. No offense but russian soldiers are really undisciplined. Or maybe its their officers fault."

One of the greatest threats to a tank is a landmine or an RPG or missile. If you think it is any nicer inside a tank when either of those things are encountered then I hereby christen you "Newbee". Choosing to call the Russians unprofessional, or undisciplined, or trying to blame their officers just reaffirms this name for you.


me..newbie, well depends what you mean, have i experienced a real war, NO. Bu we learned to stay in our apc or else there was no meaning having them. And i hardly think that its only because of the reasons you stated above those russians sat above the apc:s.

[Paranoid Andrew]

We were doing that long before they were, in Vietnam. Troops would sit on top of their M113s going into the jungle. I wonder if anyone did that in World War II for the same reason.

[Paranoid Andrew]

By the way, that link no longer works. www.kavkazcenter.com has an announcement on the front page that their server was physically seized by the Lithuanian Security Department a few days ago. Interesting. I wonder what that's all about. Did anyone else look at the rest of the site besides the Chechnya videos? I didn't. What was on it? Is it some kind of Muslim activist site or something?

[Chris1]

activist would be an understatement.

[Mortimer]

i was surprised that they would let people see them, notice how on some of the clips you hear phone tones? is that some way they communicate?

[budanski]

By the way, that link no longer works. www.kavkazcenter.com has an announcement on the front page that their server was physically seized by the Lithuanian Security Department a few days ago. Interesting. I wonder what that's all about. Did anyone else look at the rest of the site besides the Chechnya videos? I didn't. What was on it? Is it some kind of Muslim activist site or something?

You can go to google, type 'kavkazenter' and click cache. It'll give you a directory full of movies. cached page (http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache:G1zOAZ1LoaMJ:scherer.net2.nerim.net/www.kavkazcenter.com/video/clips/+kavkazcenter&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8)

[gregb]

i was surprised that they would let people see them, notice how on some of the clips you hear phone tones? is that some way they communicate?

The tones that you hear ( might be mobile phones ) are transmitting the required signals to Detonate the explosive devices remotely.

Without going into too much detail about bomb making for obvious reasons,
what device , given the conflict scenario , would be used ( by the chechen rebels ) to transmit the signals most efficiently ( avaliability , cost , efficiency , design etc. being taken into account.

[GazB]

"Bu we learned to stay in our apc or else there was no meaning having them. And i hardly think that its only because of the reasons you stated above those russians sat above the apc:s."

The APC is for transport primarily and also for protection from some dangerous things on a battlefield... bullets, shell fragments etc. They are hot and dusty and disorienting to travel any period of time in. If close combat is not expected it is common practise in most armies to ride on top of an APC as lookout for enemy as much as relief from the conditions inside.
Against an enemy well equipped with RPGs and Mines you aren't much safer inside than outside. In fact if you hit a mine you are safer on top where you might be blown clear.

"If more Americans truly understood both sides of the battle in Chechnya, they would realize the Russians are only making things worse for us by committing atrocities against civilians and stirring up Muslim extremism in the region. "

The Chechens got what they wanted and the result was not peace and love in the region. I am sure Americans could handle it much better than those dumb Ruskies though... they're so civilised.

[Mortimer]

how could a moblie phone detonate a bomb? it'd have to be some pretty tech stuff, how do the chechens get all that?
I also heard they shot down numerous plans with US made Stingers...thers acually footage of it in there somewhere.

How does a muslim extremist faction get US made weapons like that?

[GazB]

"Immature, ignorant and armed; THE most deadly combination."


Hehehehehehe... Imature.... at my age that is a compliment.

[gregb]

MORTOMER WROTE


How does a muslim extremist faction get US made weapons like that?

Thats a great question!!! The shortest answer i can give , and to many other questions like it , is this.......................POLITICIANS!

[koster]

how could a moblie phone detonate a bomb? it'd have to be some pretty tech stuff, how do the chechens get all that?
I also heard they shot down numerous plans with US made Stingers...thers acually footage of it in there somewhere.

How does a muslim extremist faction get US made weapons like that?

Ive got a better question: how do the get weapons like FN P90?? and ammo for it??? and also, how/where the f*** do they get mines that have a US Army printed on it????

and also, that Kavkaz site is BULL S**T all the news on that site is BULL and if anyone've seen pics if Basaev and some other assholes on that site, well those pics were found by our Army spetsnaz in '00 (actually they didnt just found it, they took it off of a dead chechen/arab, and then those pics were posted on the net n stuff, thats how that site got 'em....) and on that site, they sai that they got them from chechen freedom fighters or whatever......

and I agree with most of the people (JohnJohn, Hood..), gregb and all the other kids, you really need to get a f*****g life, and grow the f*** up.......

[black templar]

gregb why dont you go kill yourself and your moselm bastard pig friends. please post it live on the net.

[Slinky]

black templar >>>> your not making things better, let them discuss, stop strarting flame all over again.

[eucalyptus]

Wtf, 2 year old thread? Black templar, I must congradulate India on the introduction of electricity. Curry nam nam.

[Teaser]

how could a moblie phone detonate a bomb? it'd have to be some pretty tech stuff, how do the chechens get all that?
I also heard they shot down numerous plans with US made Stingers...thers acually footage of it in there somewhere.

How does a muslim extremist faction get US made weapons like that?

I belive the U.S. does provide Chechens with weapons to keep the Russians "Weak". I mean Chechens cant buy the damn thing, the U.S. wouldn't allow it and Chechens don't have enough money, so the U.S. MIGHT be giving Chechens weapons just like Russia is giving Iranians weapons and was selling weapons to Iraq like 2 mounths before the War. Plus the U.S. doesn't consider Chechen Militants "Terrorists" unlike Al-Qaeda and the Militant groups in Iraq. But thats just mine opinion.

[ed316]

I belive the U.S. does provide Chechens with weapons to keep the Russians "Weak". I mean Chechens cant buy the damn thing, the U.S. wouldn't allow it and Chechens don't have enough money, so the U.S. MIGHT be giving Chechens weapons just like Russia is giving Iranians weapons and was selling weapons to Iraq like 2 mounths before the War. Plus the U.S. doesn't consider Chechen Militants "Terrorists" unlike Al-Qaeda and the Militant groups in Iraq. But thats just mine opinion.

The U.S. State Department added three Chechen rebel groups to its list of designated foreign terrorist organizations. The designation makes it illegal under U.S. law to provide material support to the organization, and requires banks to freeze its assets. Members of the group can be denied U.S. visas.
Speaking to reporters on the results of the meetings, Yastrzhembskiy said that the groups include Basayev's Battalion of Shahids, the Congress of Peoples of Ichkeria and Dagestan, and the Supreme Military Mejlis-ul-Shura (United Force of Caucasian Mujahedin). February 21, 2003 Sources: *******, Associated Press, Interfax

Anyone can get their hands on small arms US or Russian, just because they have US weapons doesn't mean the US gave them weapons. Look at the FARC in Colombia they have a mix of US and Russian weapons. The US doesn't need to "keep Russian weak" they been like this since the collapse of the Soviet Union. There are many license copy of US arms all over the world. Your diatribe is just ignorant generalization.

[Teaser]

The U.S. State Department added three Chechen rebel groups to its list of designated foreign terrorist organizations. The designation makes it illegal under U.S. law to provide material support to the organization, and requires banks to freeze its assets. Members of the group can be denied U.S. visas.
Speaking to reporters on the results of the meetings, Yastrzhembskiy said that the groups include Basayev's Battalion of Shahids, the Congress of Peoples of Ichkeria and Dagestan, and the Supreme Military Mejlis-ul-Shura (United Force of Caucasian Mujahedin). February 21, 2003 Sources: *******, Associated Press, Interfax

Anyone can get their hands on small arms US or Russian, just because they have US weapons doesn't mean the US gave them weapons. Look at the FARC in Colombia they have a mix of US and Russian weapons. The US doesn't need to "keep Russian weak" they been like this since the collapse of the Soviet Union. There are many license copy of US arms all over the world. Your diatribe is just ignorant generalization.

Don't know, maybe you are right. But this whole thing is weird. But still there is a chance the U.S. is doing a little pay on Russia back because of Iraq and Iran and crap. But one thing is for sure, Russians and Americans always screw each other over. Plus, the Russians are not really scared of the retaliation the U.S. will do so the Russians sell dangerous weapons to anyone, like Syria. But I belive maybe some Middle Eastern countries might be proviteing weapons like the STINGER MISSILES to Chechen Milita's. Still, VERY strange situation!

[ed316]

Don't know, maybe you are right. But this whole thing is weird. But still there is a chance the U.S. is doing a little pay on Russia back because of Iraq and Iran and crap. But one thing is for sure, Russians and Americans always screw each other over. Plus, the Russians are not really scared of the retaliation the U.S. will do so the Russians sell dangerous weapons to anyone, like Syria. But I belive maybe some Middle Eastern countries might be proviteing weapons like the STINGER MISSILES to Chechen Milita's. Still, VERY strange situation!

I think the US learned a lesson from A-stan. I doubt the US would help them. Maybe the only contact would be a middle man so they can have dialogue with the Russians, it happen in the 90's. Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria would be the prime suspects.IMHO

[-CROAT-SOLDIER-]

The reason I don't like this **** on the internet?

People who have no reason to be seeing this **** are watching it, you have little kids that should never have access to this junk looking at it.

You ever been in the same room as a dead person before? I'm not talkin' about a funeral or anything like that, I am talking about a fresh, dead, bleeding human being man. It isn't like in these internet videos where you can just shut it off and make it go away, it is REAL.

These are real people dying, there is nothing great about it and frankly I am sick and tired of this trash being paraded around like it is nothing. Have some respect.

I've been in El Salvador, Honduras, Chile, Mexico, Nicaragua, and alot more countries than that man. Hell, in Cuba you'd always know when someone gave up the ghost because you'd hear the damn landmines go off. I've seen my share of death, hell, I've lost family members because of this sort of crap.

How about having footage of your uncle burn to death play live on TV over and over until it got old? How about having your cousin with a bright future ahead of him get beat so bad that he'll never walk again or be a regular part of society once more? Or some bitch claiming to be your family member's girlfriend and then getting some ass to stab him to death on the street only to have people leave him there to die a few minutes away from a hospital? Or maybe the best footage you types would like to see if that of my cousin who ended his life in front of a train? It makes me sick to see how bad you people have deteriorated and have been desensitized to such horrible things.

Spreading this **** doesn't help, even if you don't get off on it, whats the point in spreading it around? You know there are sickos out there that do who knows what with this. There is no use for this to be floating around, it is not free speech, it is disgusting and immoral :|
Well whare are you from if your from USA then why do your people stop wars and murdering like in kosovo so sick people like you can enjoy it?

[Teaser]

I think the US learned a lesson from A-stan. I doubt the US would help them. Maybe the only contact would be a middle man so they can have dialogue with the Russians, it happen in the 90's. Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria would be the prime suspects.IMHO

Yes but if I were the President of the U.S. I would be preety pissed off at the Russians, I mean they sell some ill **** to Iran and Syria which might be used against "Future Wars" with America.

[ed316]

Yes but if I were the President of the U.S. I would be preety pissed off at the Russians, I mean they sell some ill **** to Iran and Syria which might be used against "Future Wars" with America.

I wouldn't doubt if the Russians were helping to interrogate some terror suspects(Extraordinary Rendition)

[Teaser]

I wouldn't doubt if the Russians were helping to interrogate some terror suspects(Extraordinary Rendition)

Dude, I am not saying Russians help AL-Qaeda but they do help sell insane weapons to countries which the U.S. is calling "Axis of Evil" like Iran and Syria!

[ed316]

Dude, I am not saying Russians help AL-Qaeda but they do help sell insane weapons to countries which the U.S. is calling "Axis of Evil" like Iran and Syria!

no i mean Russia is probably helping America. They have to make money somehow

[n4292936]

I love threads about chechens. They're always so civil and productive.