G3 or FAL

[nagant_m44]

im looking to get a semi auto G3 or FAL. Which gun is better for the money? Ive heard stories about the G3 losing its zero, but I just want to know from people that actually own them.

[Icarus1]

Both are great weapons. I prefer the G3 over the FAL. The boltsystem of the G3 is great. Reduces the recoil and I have the feeling of a "cleaner" recoil. Also it's easier to upgrade the G3 because you can use MP5 parts (rails, stocks etc). Somehow I find the G3 more ergonomic, but maybe that's just me.

Never had problems with the zero of the G3. The sights are very stable, maybe just talk.

[gaijinsamurai]

Both are great rifles, just depends on your preferance. I have a FAL variant which I'm content with, but I'd probably be just as happy with an HK.
I do think that parts and magazines tend to be a little more readily available for the FAL nowadays, since there are so many variants and rifles made on US-made receivers.

[ClydeFrog]

The G3 action isn't very gentle on casings though, so if you plan to reload that might be a point to consider.

[Catch22]

Word. G3 gets rough on them casings, plus ejects them mile afar...
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4526/g3jamcf3.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=g3jamcf3.jpg)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Don't some G3s also have fluted chanbers rendering brass unsuitable for further use?

[nickless]

Don't some G3s also have fluted chanbers rendering brass unsuitable for further use?

All G3s have fluted chambers, it's a part of the rifle's design.
However, I don't know if that effects the possibility to reload the cartridges.

[gaijinsamurai]

I believe you are correct, DeltaWhisky.
I think the G3/91 sights are a little better, but I still prefer the FAL, overall.

[Boina verde]

The Portuguese Army gets some thousands of FAL and G-3 and test them in Africa in the 60’s. In the end they say that both weapons were great, the FAL were more accurate but the G-3 were more reliable. In the end they choose the G-3.

[Old Dominion]

I have examples of both rifles. I like them both. The G3 has better sights, but for some reason if I had to pick one it would be the FAL. Just my opinion.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/TimDawg/Picture011Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/TimDawg/Picture138.jpg

[Limeyfellow]

I personally picked a Fal over the G3/HK91, though these were all semi auto variants. The Fal had the better ergonomics for my taste, I quite liked its sights, and perferred the balance of the rifle over the G3 so I went with that. Either one is a fine battle rifle.

I do wish someone would release the original prototype designs for the FAL back when they were working with .280 and the rifle was much smaller and chambered for a modern round of similar size. Would make an awesome rifle.

[MG 3]

Go for the G-3. I like its balance but its reliability reins supreme and there are a lot of accessories available in the market.

BTW it looks cooler.woot

[Hollis]

I have a FAL and two G3's....... I guess we can get nit picky over both,.

If you reload, then yes there is a difference that has already been discussed. If you don't reload and have no need for the brass no big.

G3 has less recoil, more side blast and is louder becuase the of the recoil supressor.

G3 mags are super dirt cheap.

A L1A1 or FAL depending on if it is originally made or made from "parts" the value will vary.

Either one are great fire arms.

Best thing is to go out and shoot them.

I have a G3 I am planning to sell........ BUT I DO NOT SELL ON THE INTERNET, and need to know who I sell too.

BTW they both come in the most popular Harley Davidson Color Sceme, Black....... So you can assessorize it with your Harley.

[theholeinthedonut]

Both are good, I used the FAL during my time in the service, before we changed to the AUG. The Fal was very reliable and quite accurate. Today I own an L1A1 but I'm not very happy with it because the barrel is "kaputt" and I can't get my hands on a new one. I twice had the opportunity to shoot the G3 and I prefer it to the Fal. Alltough the only real issue I had with the Fal is its excessive length with can get you in tight spots when you are in confined spaces like mout or forests with dense undergrowth.

[maw]

we've done this topic before as well.

i've owned several of each in semi form, i foolishly got rid of them and now want to get back into the 1960's-1970's battle rifle club. the hk has a vastly superior trigger and sights. had more accessories. balance was off for me and i found it particularily nose heavy. i subjectively believe that the hk had less felt recoil and had better accuracy. oh and mags are about a buck a pop if you know where to look.

but i still like the fal. the balance was better for me. but the sights were almost as bad as ak sights. the trigger is the worst part of the fal because you can't (using factory parts) bring the trigger weight down.

also, imho dsa are way too pricey - $1,500 for a stg58! $1,800 for a us made parts sa58.

[TonyT]

I would take the FAL over the G3 in a heart beat. I do like the look of the G3 but don't like the horrible trigger, the charging handle position, lack of a bolt hold open, and the stampled receiver.

DSArms has a great selection of FALs. I have an 18" Para model and have thought about an original G1. The rifle functions flawlessly and groups under 2" at 100 yards with iron sites. DSarms has plenty of after market parts as you can see by mine.

New barrels are also available for both metric and inch weapons. www.dsarms.com (http://www.dsarms.com)

[Wamba]

HK G3 = Simple, no frills.

FN FAL = More bells and whistles

[Biglug]

im looking to get a semi auto G3 or FAL. Which gun is better for the money? Ive heard stories about the G3 losing its zero, but I just want to know from people that actually own them.


I'm not sure whether your in the US or not by your profile lack of location, but if you are than some of the choices would be the DSA Fal's and JLD's PTR91's. There are original HK91's around and the odd Fal's made of parts kits and FMP and others but the DSA and PTR are your better for the money new rifle choices.

Having shot and handled both a good amount and owning a PTR91 18 inch now there both good rifles, but the trigger of a G3 and iron sights are much better. I've never heard of zero problem's with a G3 either. Someone would be more likely to have in the case a crappy Century Inc. model if that, but not a quality G3 or copy.

Both the Fal and G3 have some good accessories, but the G3's is commonly more accurate and the better platform to make a semi marksman rifle out of.

You need to handle and shoot them both if you can as that will help you decide which is better for you with the way each one handles in ergonomics and controls.
I like the Fal, it's a nice forged steel receiver rifle, but I've never seen or shot one that was very accurate.
My PTR91 has shown to be a 1 1/2 moa rifle in standard setup. The triggers not bad now, but heavy, but it can also be tuned or replaced with an even better trigger that will no doubt make it easier to group tighter.

I prefer an M14 to both but the G3 is definitely a better platform to me than the Fal, that's probably why I own the PTR91 and have no care to buy a Fal at all.

http://www.ptr91.com/images/main/main_image.jpg

http://www.ptr91.com/index.html

It wouldn't be that hard to put together an accurate G3SG-1 from one as many have.

http://hkpro.com/image/g3sg1.jpg

[Roaming East]

Own a PTR91 18" and like the rifle but the ergonomics on the FAL are superior. Both arent exactly light in terms of recoil so saying one is 'less' than the other is subjective. Skillful use with the FALs gas regulator can potential make it less harsh on the shoulder than the G3. Lack of bolt hold open on the G3 is a minor quibble for me but some folks demand it.

mags for both are pretty cheap with G3 mags being slightly over a buck each

[FROGFOOT-MKDN]

Don't know about price on this one, but its solid:

DSA SA-58, 24 inch barel, Medium Contour Tactical

[FROGFOOT-MKDN]

Macedonian Police special unit member using H&K G-3SG1 in the 2001 war

[TonyT]

Buglug,


I have always felt the G3 had an awful trigger in comparison to the M14, M16, and even the FAL. The M14 being the best by far, then the M16, FAL, and finally the G3.

The G3 you had pictured is the PTR 91 A1 which could have a different trigger group than most G3's. You might clarify if your's is a standard G3 or does it have a different trigger group?

I also think the FAL is more rugged, is easier to disassemble and clean, and has more simple ergonomics. The G3 feels and looks good but the location of the mag release and bolt release are disfunctional. Plus, the lack of a bolt hold open is a critical deficency.

[Swedish_Marine]

Never fired the FAL, but I can speak for the G3. The G3 is extremely reliable and rugged and can take a real beating. It´s the only 7,62mm rifle I´ve fired, so I can´t compare its recoil to any other rifle, but it´s pretty light.

Someone said the chamber on the G3 is fluted. If you´re referring to the grooves in the chamber, they´re there to reduce friction between the rifle and the brass. Powder-gasses flow in these grooves and allows an easier extraction of the brass from the chamber. As the AK4 (G3A3) manual says: "The case floats on the gas". If these grooves gets filled with grit or gun-powder residue, it can cause stoppages.

As stated earlier, the brass gets damaged due to the violent ejection. There was also a rumor about the ejection, causing small fragments of brass to get caught in the shooter´s eyes. But after using the G3 for over six years, I´ve never experienced anything like it.

[Biglug]

Biglug,


I have always felt the G3 had an awful trigger in comparison to the M14, M16, and even the FAL. The M14 being the best by far, then the M16, FAL, and finally the G3.

The G3 you had pictured is the PTR 91 A1 which could have a different trigger group than most G3's. You might clarify if your's is a standard G3 or does it have a different trigger group?

I also think the FAL is more rugged, is easier to disassemble and clean, and has more simple ergonomics. The G3 feels and looks good but the location of the mag release and bolt release are disfunctional. Plus, the lack of a bolt hold open is a critical deficency.

No it has a standard trigger group, Tony T. All parts on the PTR's are interchangeable with G3's and HK91's and most PTR's depending on serial number have a mix of the FMP parts that JLD bought from them with their tooling and JLD built parts. I do need to get it tuned by Bill Springfield one of these days, but I shoot my M1A more and it has it's trigger tuned and is in a accurized CrazyHorse state.

We're definitely right in sink with each other that the M14 has one hell of a trigger.

As for the FAL and G3, they are both rugged rifles with years of hard military use behind them, either is a good choice and without putting them through the ropes of jumping up and down on them, throwing them around myself I can't say which one's tougher, but both are tough enough.
The mag release doesn't bother me, but depending on someones hands I guess it could. A paddle release is nicer to me, but the G3 release does work. Someone just needs to get use to it, like any rifle really.

[Swedish_Marine]

@TonyT: I don´t know what you mean by "bolt hold open" on the G3, but you can hold the bolt open by pulling the charging handle to the rear and position it in the hold-open slot to insert a new magazine or to inspect the reciever and breech. There is no bolt-catch on the G3 as a standard feature, but you can easily solve that problem by loading tracers as the last three rounds in the magazine. When you see the tracers, you´ll know it´s time to change magazines and you don´t need to cycle the mechanism after you insert a fresh magazine.

There are two magazine release-options on the G3. A paddle behind the magazine well wich is used most by gripping the magazine with your left hand and using the left thumb to push the paddle. There is also a release button on the right side just behind the magazine well. However, you need significant strength in your fingers to push it while holding the pistol grip. I tried swapping magazines on the G3 yesterday and timed myself. With a chambered round, I could swap magazines in four seconds by removing the empty magazine and letting it drop to the ground, pulling a fresh magazine from the pouch and inserting it into the magazine well and setting the switch to semi to resume firing.

[Durandal]

HK G3 = Simple, no frills.

FN FAL = More bells and whistles

HK G3 = ridiculous price for a metal stamped receiver gun.
FN FAL = more reasonably priced for doing the exact same thing.

The nice thing about FAL "stuff" is that there is more of it on the market and cheaper.

If you want a G3 buy a CETME...and keep it the way it is or "G3 it". I know its not the same, but its cheaper and you get just about the same "stuff".

[Biglug]

HK G3 = ridiculous price for a metal stamped receiver gun.
FN FAL = more reasonably priced for doing the exact same thing.

The nice thing about FAL "stuff" is that there is more of it on the market and cheaper.

If you want a G3 buy a CETME...and keep it the way it is or "G3 it". I know its not the same, but its cheaper and you get just about the same "stuff".

I'm sorry but in the US, that's pretty bad advice as the main Cetme anyone's gonna come across are the CenturyArms Inc. versions which most owners tend to have a string of problems with. Some end up getting them fix, some just give up due to bad service from CA Inc..

Now I guess if your in Europe and can get your hands on a true Spanish Cetme, than things are different, but not here and most of the Cetme's on the market are a gamble.

Here a true HK91 that is one of the few that were sold here before Bush seniors screwing of the public with his import ban blocking off new HK91's and various foreign manufactured weapons to the public, than yes the prices reflect the availability and common prices for one are around 2 thousand and change because of there collectors status.

The PTR91 though for a thousand dollars and change with it's very high quality manufacture that most experts put higher than the original HK's are completely worth the money for that stamped steel receiver rifle.

It sounds like you've got some obvious disdain for a stamped steel rifle though. That's your preference because G3's still serve through extreme military use around the world with Finland and Pakistan as example.
Mexico only switched over to a G36 throwoff just recently too and Spain used the Cetme for many years themselves. If I'm than wrong than my bad, but I don't think so.

Here's a great forum for someone to learn about them and see them in use by countries in the "HK in action series" section.

http://hkpro.com/forum/index.php


There have been reports from our soldier's of G3's in Iraq being one of the most reliable rifles there.
I own a great PTR that is completely reliable, very durable, has excellent accessories choices for anything I'd need and more, and with a long experience of weapons would take it into a battle anyday.

Between the G3 and Fal, if the price in choice is good for someone with what they find available to them, than both are good rifles and which one suits you more in ergonomics, features and upgrades is the more important.

[TonyT]

Swedish Marine,


You are correct: I was referring to the bolt catch. Regardless of loading tracers or not it is a nice feature and speeds up mag changes and simplifies if you have a stoppage or an empty mag.

With an M16 series or FAL it is too simple: last round down range, change magazines with one hand, pop bolt release and continue shooting. All controls are where they feel naturally.

With the G3 it isn't so natural. The mag release isn't in a natural position, then you have to recharge the weapon using an awkardly placed charging handle. Plus, unless you are a sasquatch, you can't manipulate the safety with you shooting hand.

[TonyT]

Didn't PTR go out of business for a short time? They no longer offer their PTR 91 A1?

[Biglug]

Didn't PTR go out of business for a short time? They no longer offer their PTR 91 A1?

No Tony, they just expanded by adding on a new partner in P. Everett Weed, but I think your right about the A1 model being gone, I don't see it offered anymore.

The nice thing is they've made a 20inch fluted heavy barrel and there's word of a MSG-90/PSG-1 model possibly coming in the future.

http://ptr91.com/about.html

http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php


Many will really like that, but I'm content in my 18 inch and working on turning it into a G3SG-1 throwoff with one of Magpul's new PRS stocks coming out, a B&T G3 lowmount and a scope I'm not quite sure of yet in which model.

[Biglug]

Swedish Marine,



With the G3 it isn't so natural. The mag release isn't in a natural position, then you have to recharge the weapon using an awkardly placed charging handle. Plus, unless you are a sasquatch, you can't manipulate the safety with you shooting hand.


I guess that's why I don't find it a problem at all and can reload pretty fast. At 6'4" and 250lb it most be me.
I'm a Sasquatch.:-|

[Jippo]

That's your preference because G3's still serve through extreme military use around the world with Finland and Pakistan as example.

Finnish army has never used G3.


-jippo

[Biglug]

Finnish army has never used G3.


-jippo


My apologies, I was thinking of Norway.

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35942&highlight=g3




http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5425/49255512mb126ay.jpg

[Jippo]

I thought so. Just had to correct. :)


-jippo

[Biglug]

I thought so. Just had to correct. :)


-jippo


Understandably so.:)

[Freibier]

With the G3 it isn't so natural. The mag release isn't in a natural position, then you have to recharge the weapon using an awkardly placed charging handle.
I was trained to hook one of the sling hooks to the charging handle, allows for very fast recharging and clearing of stoppages ( which I never experienced :) )

[Hollis]

Swedish Marine,
With the G3 it isn't so natural. The mag release isn't in a natural position, then you have to recharge the weapon using an awkardly placed charging handle. Plus, unless you are a sasquatch, you can't manipulate the safety with you shooting hand.


not to nit pick, but natural depends on what you were trained with/used and got all the details down on rote behavior.

Natural to me may be unnatural to you. One of the reason there is such a divergent opinion on what is the best rifle or pistol.

[Durandal]

I'm sorry but in the US, that's pretty bad advice as the main Cetme anyone's gonna come across are the CenturyArms Inc. versions which most owners tend to have a string of problems with. Some end up getting them fix, some just give up due to bad service from CA Inc..


I honestly do not other's experiences. I have 2 CETME's in my safe. Paid 300.00 for each. No problems at all. I have about 3000 rounds through one and (admittedly none) is a safe queen with tags still on it to eventually sell.


It sounds like you've got some obvious disdain for a stamped steel rifle though. That's your preference because G3's still serve through extreme military use around the world with Finland and Pakistan as example.

I do not have a disdain for stamped metal receivers. My point was that stamped metal receivers are cheap to manufacture and the cost of such firearms should be low. There are a variety of reasons why some are not. One you mentioned above as to the ban, others because the are NFA restricted, or because they were produced in limited numbers.


There have been reports from our soldier's of G3's in Iraq being one of the most reliable rifles there.

Along with half a dozen others. Not to belittle this statement, but the FAL and AK have been spread across the world in even wider numbers, especially in the dusty regions of the middle east and africa. I try to avoid the "this rifle is better than other rifles" commentary, simply because it usually boils down to A) Preference and service issue familiarity and B) it either works or it doesn't. A well trained military force with Italian BM59s is more lethal than a militia with G36 or ARs.


I own a great PTR that is completely reliable, very durable, has excellent accessories choices for anything I'd need and more, and with a long experience of weapons would take it into a battle anyday.

I am not belling the PTR. Its a perfectly acceptable rifle. Nothing more, nothing less. Its an inexpensive (relatively speaking) alternative to the HK91.


Between the G3 and Fal, if the price in choice is good for someone with what they find available to them, than both are good rifles and which one suits you more in ergonomics, features and upgrades is the more important.

This can be said of any gun. I would assume the person asking which one WE think is better has already "felt" 'em up and is simply asking about things he is not familiar with.

Then again, in this forum we got some loon who obviously knows nothing about firearms in general asking very odd questions about AKs, so who knows.

All of this is sort of like arguing auto-pistols manufactured H&K vs Glock vs SiG vs Colt...you end up buying what you like even if none of these guns are TRULY better than the other one.

My advice in those situations is buy the cheapest used police issue sidearm you can find and enjoy it, you can always turn around and sell it for a little bit more than you paid.

[flanker7]

I was trained to hook one of the sling hooks to the charging handle, allows for very fast recharging and clearing of stoppages ( which I never experienced :) )

I know also of this tactic but I wouldn't advise it. When you hang the weapon in front of your chest in a "low ready" position it may, just may, unlock the bolt and then, when you take aim and squeze the trigger you hear a "click" buy no "bang"....:|

[TonyT]

Biglug,

6'4" 250 could be Sasquatch qualities assuming lots of back hair.

What performace have you been gettting out of your M14 and G3's? When you respond please clarify iron sites or optics and what type of ammo. 100 yards?

I have been thinking about buying one of the new PTR's but am leaning towards new optics.

[usm2b]

hooooooops!

[Xaito]

Ive heard stories about the G3 losing its zero, but I just want to know from people that actually own them.
My big brother had this problem when he was in the Bundeswehr - they were probably the last guys who had to use the G3 before germany started using the G36 - so the G3 were already old - he told me it didnt shoot where it was supposed to - but after using it a few times he got familiarized with it - he almost managed to earn the "Schützenschnur in Gold" with that rifle - but the "Schützenschnur in Silber" is not that bad with a rifle that couldn't shoot straight i guess ;)

[Biglug]

Biglug,

6'4" 250 could be Sasquatch qualities assuming lots of back hair.

What performace have you been gettting out of your M14 and G3's? When you respond please clarify iron sites or optics and what type of ammo. 100 yards?

I have been thinking about buying one of the new PTR's but am leaning towards new optics.

Ok, I'm no Sasquatch, but the G3 design is not so so bad for me in ways. I would prefer the charging handle ambi while located at the receiver and paddle mag release, but the G3 is what it is and it's still pretty good as is.

My M1A is setup in a modified usgi fiberglass, is completely accurized with all the national match mods and running Smith's DC Vortex and hooded GFLS so the iron sight picture is near the same as the PTR91.

The M14 tuned trigger is one of the best around and my PTR's isn't tuned yet, but the PTR91 has been giving me so far at best 1 1/2 moa with what Radway Green surplus I've had left and Winchester and PMC FMJ and the M1A has been giving me around 1 moa consistently with the same while shooting from bags at the bench for accuracy capability with the irons at 100 yards.

The PTR will be getting more match though from now on and the M1A will probably stay with the Winchester and PMC as the surplus market for 7.62x51mm has dryed up so much and the direction I'm looking to go with the rifles. The PTR to become a more dedicated long range platform with a variable power scope and the M1A because of it's chromelined usgi barrel and better options for more, a mid range precision platform. I'm confident when the trigger is tuned on the PTR, I've refined it ammo preference, and it's scoped, it will do the job well.


Being so use to a bolt hold open and training with it so much on other weapons, the PTR91 since it has some great setups and options for, the heavy barrel it uses and the controls, I see it best for me to turn it into a dedicated long range platform.
It's still an excellent rifle if someone wanted otherwise, but for me in a 7.62x51mm semi auto, the M14/M1A is still the best as an all around.
I guess there are certain loves for both too at the same with my German/Austrian ancestry, but the M14 wins if I had to choose between the two.

[TonyT]

Biglug,

Is English your second language?

[Biglug]

Biglug,

Is English your second language?


No actually, I sadly speak so little German it's disgraceful. I was born here, my father died when I was younger and didn't finish teaching me much and my Grandparents have long since been dead so even still, he seldomly spoke it.
I've been trying to connect to my ancestry more and study German, but haven't put enough time into it when it comes down to it.


I guess I should take that as my typing and english language skills are pretty damn bad, HAHA.:lol: :cantbeli:Sorry.

[TonyT]

Just kidding around