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ed316
11-28-2006, 12:01 PM
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/printer_friendly/news_logo.gif
China defies Vatican over bishop
China has named a new Catholic bishop in a move likely to increase tension with the Vatican.

Father Wang Renlei will be ordained on Thursday, a Chinese official said.
China and Rome do not have diplomatic relations and in May the Vatican excommunicated two bishops who were ordained without its approval.
There are 10 million Catholics in China, divided between the officially tolerated Patriotic Church, and an underground Church loyal to Rome.
"Wang Renlei was elected as the bishop of the Xuzhou diocese," Liu Bainian, vice president of the China Catholic Patriotic Association, told the French news agency AFP.
"This election is legal and valid. This is in the interest of the [Chinese] Church....a church cannot exist without a bishop," he said.
"We cannot wait until after the normalisation of relations to consecrate bishops," Mr Liu said.
'Deep displeasure'
There has been no comment from Rome so far, but in May the Vatican excommunicated two bishops who were ordained by China.


Pope Benedict XVI expressed his "deep displeasure" over the appointments.
Beijing and the Vatican have been engaged in talks for some time with the aim of re-establishing relations, which were severed more than 50 years ago.
China does not recognise the Pope's authority, insisting that all Chinese Catholics belong to a state-run church.
China is often accused of religious oppression by human rights organisations.
In August, Beijing released a bishop jailed for more than 10 years for being a member of the underground Roman Catholic Church, loyal to the Vatican.
In the past, many other followers of the underground Catholic Church have also received lengthy prison sentences.
And many Buddhist monks and nuns have been jailed for their loyalty to the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/6191208.stm

2Sheds_Jackson
11-28-2006, 04:00 PM
In a related story, early Tuesday morning, the Vatican replaced the President of the People's Republic of China, Hu Jintao, with their appointee, Mr. Federico Tazzi.

SBL
11-28-2006, 06:35 PM
Nothing new. China's been filling religious positions with state-approved clergy for years.

Con-man
11-29-2006, 01:37 AM
Bah, we have enough leaders who got to where they are at the moment because of religion already 2Sheds :)

Ordie
11-29-2006, 02:27 AM
I would not discount the Holy See (Vatican).

Stalin once said "How many divisions does the Pope have?"

In the end it was a Polish Pope that contributed to the demise of the Soviet Union and Communist dictatorships in Eastern Europe.

rb132
11-29-2006, 02:50 AM
catholicism = cult with a bit of jesus sprinkled on top

Playtime
11-29-2006, 08:39 AM
why is it that the vatican is given such moral authority when it cant even bare to give up its rapist priests?
even the BBC in the program Panorama stated that the current pope was actively protecting those disgusting priest from law enforcers, some of which described the vatican as being like the mafia.
religion - and its leaders - is way over rated.

2Sheds_Jackson
11-29-2006, 11:51 AM
religion - and its leaders - is way over rated.

So is just about everything else.


catholicism = cult with a bit of jesus sprinkled on top

Who gets to make the call as to what's a cult and what's not?

rb132
11-29-2006, 12:15 PM
Who gets to make the call as to what's a cult and what's not?


Anyone who thinks you need a better reason than 'it says so in this book' to accept something to be a truth is fit to deem an organisation a cult.

A group headed by one man with a massiah complex who thinks tradition has to be upheld even at the cost of sacrificing human life (vatican policy on condom use in africa) who controls millions of loyal followers by fear (youll go to hell if you dont follow the bible) cant be considered anything other than a cult.

I especially like it how he's so quick to criticise other religions, particularly islam, yet would never accept any criticism of his own views which as all reasonable people know are nothing more than dogma.

Con-man
11-29-2006, 10:07 PM
Well, I think this is a very powerful message now that I look over it again, the Vatican has its hands in with ALOT of stuff, for a seperate catholic church to exist and get away with it does say alot.

AK74
11-30-2006, 12:35 AM
Religion VS Politics

Round 1 , FIGHt!

Ordie
11-30-2006, 01:21 AM
I argue that nations should not underestimate the Holy See.
It is unique that it is an organized church as well as a nation state in the global community. Keep in mind that the Catholic Church is the world's oldest political entity and bureaucracy.

It has a global network of Dioceses, churches, missions, schools, charities, and NGO's. Catholic charities are usually in the front lines providing much needed aid in countries such as Somalia. Filipino professionals are educated at Ateno (Jesuit) or De La Salle (Salesian) prep schools and continue on to Santo Tomas University, the oldest in Asia. Many US Foreign Service professionals graduated from Georgetown University (Jesuit). Many soup kitchens in the United States are operated by Franciscan Monks. Palestinian families in the West Bank, many who are not Christians, send thier kids and youth to Catholic Prep schools in Jerusalem or Bethlahem University (Salesian) for higher education.

Ironically the first Western Scholars to the Imperial Court in China was Matteo Ricci, a Jesuit priest and scholar. They help set up the Beijing Observatory, which still exist to this day.

Jobu
11-30-2006, 01:34 AM
Hell, they're pirating all our software, music, movies, etc.

Why not bishops too?

SBL
11-30-2006, 01:35 AM
edit.



too tired.

MichaelF
11-30-2006, 02:17 AM
catholicism = cult with a bit of jesus sprinkled on top

Thank you, Rev. Paisley...

rb132
11-30-2006, 06:03 AM
Thank you, Rev. Paisley...


that f*cker is just as bad

Durandal
11-30-2006, 07:47 AM
In a related story, early Tuesday morning, the Vatican replaced the President of the People's Republic of China, Hu Jintao, with their appointee, Mr. Federico Tazzi.

rofl

Nearly spit my coffee out reading that one.

Funny 2Sheds, very funny.