Bin laden calls for truce with Europe.

[Kilgor]

"I announce a truce with the European countries that do not attack Muslim countries," the taped message said as the stations showed an old, still picture of bin Laden.

The message said the truce would last three months and could be extended.

There was no immediate way to confirm the voice was bin Laden's.

This truce, the message said, was to deny "the war mongers" further opportunities and because polls have shown that "most of the European peoples want reconciliation" with the Islamic world.

The message also vowed revenge for Israel's killing of Sheik Ahmed Yassin (search), leader of the Palestinian militant group Hamas (search).

"We vow before God to take revenge for him from America for this, God willing."

The message said that American policy ignores the "real problem," which is "the occupation of all of Palestine."

The message also denounced the U.S. war on Iraq, saying it was making "billions of dollars" for companies, "whether those that make weapons or those that take part in reconstruction," naming the American firm Halliburton.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117148,00.html

[stuntman]

Will the Euros chicken out or will they see past the cow dun?

I vote another surpise!

[Yard Ape]

He is just discovering that he cannot fight the entire world at once. He wants to fight the world one country at a time.

[Soulhunter]

Had Bush concentrated on Al Qaeda instead of Saddam, Bin Laden would perhaps already be history ...

[Skaman]

Bin Laden wants to weaken American will and create an isolated American front in Iraq that will not be able to sustain the burden of reconstruction, and upheaval alone. Much of Europe is in a fragile position with significant civilian discontent for the war. The realities of the dangers of terrorism, such as the attacks in Madrid have sent a clear warning to the European community. This assurance of peace may provide enough of a push for European states to reevaluate their Position, and withdraw as necessary. Ultimately, these movements are attempting to isolate the United States in their War on Terror campaigns.

[stuntman]

Had Bush concentrated on Al Qaeda instead of Saddam, Bin Laden would perhaps already be history ...

If Europe would of put more then token forces maybe they could of really repaid us back for ww2! Then maybe we (USA) would shut up.

[Skaman]

Had Bush concentrated on Al Qaeda instead of Saddam, Bin Laden would perhaps already be history ...

If Europe would of put more then token forces maybe they could of really repaid us back for ww2! Then maybe we (USA) would shut up.


I can't believe you just said that.

[stuntman]

Had Bush concentrated on Al Qaeda instead of Saddam, Bin Laden would perhaps already be history ...

If Europe would of put more then token forces maybe they could of really repaid us back for ww2! Then maybe we (USA) would shut up.


I can't believe you just said that.

Why can't you believe it? I agree my comment is a heartfilled reply but it aggravates me when someone throws stones from a glass house. You follow me?

[TALOS]

Had Bush concentrated on Al Qaeda instead of Saddam, Bin Laden would perhaps already be history ...

If Europe would of put more then token forces maybe they could of really repaid us back for ww2! Then maybe we (USA) would shut up.


I can't believe you just said that.
Well Ducimus you cant say much with the anti american everything type posts you usually make. You come across as one of those Canadians who believes we are never wrong and are the only moral people in northamerica. Europe begged for US aid and assistance in ww2 and now say the US wasnt needed and shoulda minded their own business. Non revisionist history says otherwise.

[Skaman]

[/quote]


[quote=Soulhunter]Had Bush concentrated on Al Qaeda instead of Saddam, Bin Laden would perhaps already be history ...

If Europe would of put more then token forces maybe they could of really repaid us back for ww2! Then maybe we (USA) would shut up.


I can't believe you just said that.
Well Ducimus you cant say much with the anti American everything type posts you usually make.


Are you confusing Anti-America with dislike of American foreign policy and methods of Americanization? The American populous as a whole has nothing to be ashamed of, and are a great people with many admirable characteristics.

You come across as one of those Canadians who believes we are never wrong and are the only moral people in northamerica.

I am proud of my nation, and am glad I live amongst a temperate and rational people. Our government may have some non idealistic policies, but ultimately, there is not much to complain of.

Europe begged for US aid and assistance in ww2 and now say the US wasnt needed and shoulda minded their own business. Non revisionist history says otherwise.

The US acted in WW2 out of self interest and as a means of containing a growing global threat. The US feared being boxed in on both the Western and Eastern Hemispheres. Nonetheless, America helped a great deal in Europe, and their efforts should not be forgotten. Europe however, does not owe American anything. America and Europe are facing a complex and indifferent world, very unlike the globe some sixty years ago. Stop using the Second World War as a tool to rake in European support as if it is OWED.

[stuntman]

Stop using the Second World War as a tool to rake in European support as if it is OWED.
Why because it happened soooo long ago? 60 years is not a long time! Keep in mind just because you can't physically remember, it doesn't mean it's worth forgeting it! Interest is what runs the world, please pull the blanket off my friend. I'm sure your intelligence is definitely merited in your life but blindness could still be ruled by a one eyed man. Think about that!

[Shadow]

You are THE man ducimus19!:D

[Soulhunter]

Had Bush concentrated on Al Qaeda instead of Saddam, Bin Laden would perhaps already be history ...

If Europe would of put more then token forces maybe they could of really repaid us back for ww2! Then maybe we (USA) would shut up.

We are thankful for the US defeating the Nazis. But let's not forget that hey didn't just do it because of the poor Jews, Europeans, whatever ... They again, as in Iraq, had primarily self-interest in doing that. Before being attacked in Pearl Habour and before Germany declared war to the US, the US sold weapons to both camps etc.

So don't be so utterly self-righteous. The US doesn't do anything for free or just because it is 'moral'!

[Truthsayer]

What of earths name do they teach kids in schools today?

No, Europe didn't begg for American support - US of A entered the war on it's own free will.

No, Europe doesn't owe US of A for what happened 60 years ago. Unless we, as always, should single out that event and ignore other events when European blood was used to help the US of A.

But that would be silly because that was a long time ago (...)?

Besides, what you fail to understand is still that the WW2 wasn't a war lead by the US of A against some invisible enemy, to save whole of Europe. I'm quite sure the germans at the time (as well as some other countries) didn't need the help, right?

Or do they owe support for all future for this help too?

And please, establishing bases in Europe wasn't out of the goodness of the heart (no country ever has done that!) - it was hard politicts. It was the reaction and 'war' against communism. It was regoqnised as a big threat and they acted upon that. The Korean war and Vietnam-war is kinda clear cut signs of that. Unless I know have misqouted everybody as to what those two wars was about.

Listen, I'm not even gonna touch the subject of the bin laden tape as of yet, since a) it's not yet been established if they are real and b) no country will ever form it's policy dictated by some voice from a tape.

However, I find it offensive that some kids still think whole(!) of Europe should pay back for WW2 to the US o A (only?) and possibly do so for the rest of mankinds existens.

[talib_killa34]

Never trust this terrorist FOK ....

EVER!

:-*$

Kill the son of a bitch! :|

[tooms]

If Europe would of put more then token forces maybe they could of really repaid us back for ww2! Then maybe we (USA) would shut up.

Stuntman, shut up :slap:
USA in WWII repaid us back for their independence war ;)
J/k to show how stupid is your post.

And you insult the Europeans who bring thousands of soldiers in Afghanistan or in Irak because now there are many terrorists there, you deserve :bash: .

[Ichhabe]

Nice of him to offering us a way out. :bash:

[SeanAshi]

Europe should tell him "no" the way we do in America..give'em the middle finger.

[Truthsayer]

We would - if you stepped off and let us do it.

Instead you ridicule all of europe and _tell_ us what to do "not to be leed by anyone" ('besides you', as they will see it).

See where it might go wrong?

If we have to spend too much time defending ourselfs and the fact that most of us aren't backing down or fleeing away - it's leaving us no time in telling the terrorists how we really feel.

Take smoke, relax and let us get the middle finger up. ;)

[Marmot1]

If Europe would of put more then token forces maybe they could of really repaid us back for ww2! Then maybe we (USA) would shut up.
OK and when you will repay france and other countries for help in independence war??? or spain for exploring your country? or thousands of irish and german emigranst who fought for union in civil war (AFAIK 60% of union soldiers were german and irish or to milions of europeans who build US??? Your country was created by europeans for europeans so unless you are native american STFU.

[Backis]

What of earths name do they teach kids in schools today?

No, Europe didn't begg for American support - US of A entered the war on it's own free will.




USA was dragged kicking and screaming into WW2, first the Japanese "preemptively" attacked them at Pearl Harbour, then the Germans declared war on them, not the other way around...

If Europe owe anyone anything, we owe it to Roosevelt, who implemented the highly unpopular lend-lease program in spite of the isolationist stance taken by the congress...

[Backis]

Europe should tell him "no" the way we do in America..give'em the middle finger.

I think the Longbowmans two-finger salute is more stylish and fitting.

http://www.autotrend.com/pic/9151.jpg
(look, even Americans can do it!) :lol:

As to the middle finger... can't you Yanks stop believing you invent everything you copy! :P ;)


The middle-finger gesture, which apparently has had phallic connotations in every culture in which it has been used, is much older. We know it dates back at least to ancient Greece, where it was referenced in "The Clouds," a play written by Aristophanes in 423 B.C. It was also well known to the Romans, who referred to it variously as digitus infamis ("infamous finger") and digitus impudicus ("indecent finger"). In all likelihood its origins were prehistoric.

–"Next on FOX, how Americans invented breathing, and why everyone who does it owe us royalties!" p-)

[Imshi-Yallah]

It sounds like a spoof, besides what good is a temporary truce with a movement that wants to turn the entire world into a 7th century Islamic kingdom, it sounds like an effort to encourage european peace groups to become more extreme.

A fifth column if you will.

[fdt]

We are thankful for the US defeating the Nazis. But let's not forget that hey didn't just do it because of the poor Jews, Europeans, whatever ... They again, as in Iraq, had primarily self-interest in doing that. Before being attacked in Pearl Habour and before Germany declared war to the US, the US sold weapons to both camps etc.

So don't be so utterly self-righteous. The US doesn't do anything for free or just because it is 'moral'!First the obvious false statement that US was supplying Nazi Germany during the 1939-41 period. Man get back to school! :cantbeli:
Second: Yanks have fought Nazi germany for its own interest not for love... Horror! Outrage! How dared they to do it not of love for truth and democracy...! How is this called? Hmmmm.... I know! It's a natural alliance built on common interest.... whoah... what a disgusting revelation! I thought that Yanks love us.... :cantbeli: Don't You wanna too much at the time Soulhunter?

[big_les]

Europe should tell him "no" the way we do in America..give'em the middle finger.

I think the Longbowmans two-finger salute is more stylish and fitting.

http://www.autotrend.com/pic/9151.jpg
(look, even Americans can do it!) :lol:

As to the middle finger... can't you Yanks stop believing you invent everything you copy! :P ;)


The middle-finger gesture, which apparently has had phallic connotations in every culture in which it has been used, is much older. We know it dates back at least to ancient Greece, where it was referenced in "The Clouds," a play written by Aristophanes in 423 B.C. It was also well known to the Romans, who referred to it variously as digitus infamis ("infamous finger") and digitus impudicus ("indecent finger"). In all likelihood its origins were prehistoric.

–"Next on FOX, how Americans invented breathing, and why everyone who does it owe us royalties!" p-)

Very interesting on the 'digitus impudicus', I didn't know that. However, I think there's a lot of skepticism about the link between the two fingered salute and English longbowmen. I think its purely folklore brought to the fore by the likes of re-enactors.

[Mark Sman]

Please allow me to trot out some opinions.

There will be no seperate truce with Al Qaida. For one, many of the nations of Europe are members of NATO. It would actually violate the charter for them to negotiaiate a seperate peace with anyone at war with another member nation.

Two. Its not in their best interest either.

Three. Its not in the best interest of one whole heck of alot of countries outside Europe as well. Pakistan, India, Russia and China (to name four nuclear armed ones) aren't going to want peace with AQ. There is no such thing, and they know it.

Four. Some states in Europe wouldn't accept this no matter what.

OK. That being the case. What's next?

My guess is Asia. AQ would love to open this thing up on another front in a big way. And either threatening traditional US allies in Asia, or plunging large unstable areas of Asia into chaos, would make them happy. Significant groups in the region have enough motivation to go tearing things up even without outside training and funding.

Then there is the joker in the deck. Another high profile strike in Europe or America. Canada may even get attacked this time around. Canada won't accept a seperate peace with AQ no matter what Europe does.

But I think the smart money points at Asia. Bet its been a real intreresting week at that arms show in Kuala Lumpur.

[mustamato]

We don´t bomb them, they don´t bomb us. Our tactics work. Appeasement (from both sides) simply.

[Mark Sman]

Your country was created by europeans for europeans so unless you are native american STFU.

Oh I could think of some exceptions to this.

[duck]

AQ does not hold any wordly or religious authority. It's like a serial killer would offer the FBI to stop killing if he is not persecuted.

[Saranof]

Had Bush concentrated on Al Qaeda instead of Saddam, Bin Laden would perhaps already be history ...

If Europe would of put more then token forces maybe they could of really repaid us back for ww2! Then maybe we (USA) would shut up.

What? :| With that kind of logic, the chechnya would be full of international forces, repaing the russians for saving us from hitler.

[Marmot1]

Your country was created by europeans for europeans so unless you are native american STFU.

Oh I could think of some exceptions to this.
Sorry but all US president so far were of european descent...
also all "founders" of US were europeans or can you pont some natives or africans in congres... and to the end of civil war almost only white ppl had full civil rights (black slaves were unfortunatelly not citizens at this time)

[mrfloppy]

fdt wrote:
First the obvious false statement that US was supplying Nazi Germany during the 1939-41 period. Man get back to school!

Well, it wasn't the US-governments policy, to directly support NAZI-Germany, but they didn't stop US-corporations from doing business with Germany. Just a few examples:
- Standard Oil handed over (sold) synthetic oil processes to the German Navy
- IBM benefitted from it's German subsidiary Dehomag, building machines to process data which helped the Germans in administrating the Holocaust
- Ford and General Motors let their German subsidiaries build Cars and trucks for the "Wehrmacht"...

Just one of the many sources, easily to be found on the internet:
http://www.texasobserver.org/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=598

[Adri]

- IBM benefitted from it's German subsidiary Dehomag, building machines to process data which helped the Germans in administrating the Holocaust

I don't think those computers was intended to be used that way ;)

[mrfloppy]

Actually, it doesn't matter, what those machines were used for, it was doing business with NAZI-Germany anyway.

[Tengu]

Talking about off-topic.

On-topic: This guy must me joking, we will hunt those basterds down like the vermin they are and crush them! Didn't know bin laden had a sense of humor.

[Soulhunter]

Flanders: so why haven't you done that already then?

[AROUETLJ]

Shut the **** up all of you. The EUROPEAN UNION has already rejected Bin Laden's offer, saying it will never negotiate with terrorists. So we should consider this thread closed.

[Soulhunter]

the german government has issued a statement they won't negotiate with Bin Laden

[Tengu]

Flanders: so why haven't you done that already then?Flanders is in belgium and we do hunt them.

[Catch22]

I just love it... Were sitting here bashing each other, flaming those silly "US vs Europe", or "Who owns what tho who" ages old wars, and those "Allachu Akbar" MoFos are just peacefully setting next bomb... Guys give it a break - there's a work to be done :|

[rafaelcb]

We don´t bomb them, they don´t bomb us. Our tactics work. Appeasement (from both sides) simply.

No, it doesn't. USA did not bomb anyone before 9/11.
Spain did not bomb anyone (for a very very long time) and they bombed us. So maybe you want to beleieve that, but 'not bombing them' has proved to be a bad strategy.

[Mark Sman]

Your country was created by europeans for europeans so unless you are native american STFU.

Mark Sman wrote:;
Oh I could think of some exceptions to this.

Sorry but all US president so far were of european descent...
also all "founders" of US were europeans or can you pont some natives or africans in congres... and to the end of civil war almost only white ppl had full civil rights (black slaves were unfortunatelly not citizens at this time)

"created by europeans" Tell it to the millions of African slaves, Mexicans and Asians that helped build this country. It'll be news to them. Not to mention the immigrants from, oh, everywhere else on the planet.

"(black slaves were unfortunatelly not citizens at this time)" True. However black Freedmen were even before the Civil War. As were black people born in states where slavery had been abolished, or indeed, had never been practised under US control. BTW, that is most states. Not going to even try to pretend that racism wasn't everywhere though.


so unless you are native american STFU.
OK. Nice, not shutting up though.

Back to the original post. I knew Europe would tell Bin Laden where to shove it., and I appreciate the worldwide efforts to tack this guys hide up.

[cold0]

I just love it... Were sitting here bashing each other, flaming those silly "US vs Europe", or "Who owns what tho who" ages old wars, and those "Allachu Akbar" MoFos are just peacefully setting next bomb... Guys give it a break - there's a work to be done :|

100% agree. **** Bin Laden and his offer!!!

[sierraone]

Supporting the war on Iraq and supporting the war on terror are two totally different things!! All european nations are under no illusion that they are potential targets whatever the **** Bin Laden or whoever says..

[CannibalSquirel]

I can´t believe this. Even here Bin Laden has it´s influence. He managed to put europeans against americans even in a god damm internet forum.
Grow up people.

It´s obvious that this recent statement of BinBin ( has I like to call him , remindes my of a toy ) its an absurd. He should shove it in his ass.

[CannibalSquirel]

WTF? delete this post please

[foxtrot023]

Even our newly elected idiot... I mean president, has told AQ to shoved it, as he stated that he will reinforce anti terror laws. However he also stated that we will continue with the june 30th deadline regarding Iraq.

regards

[CannibalSquirel]

Even our newly elected idiot... I mean president, has told AQ to shoved it, as he stated that he will reinforce anti terror laws. However he also stated that we will continue with the june 30th deadline regarding Iraq.

regards

Prime-minister... prime-minister... ;)

[foxtrot023]

I know, I know, just named president to have it as a reference name if you will for our yank friends (to call all chiefs, chiefs and all indians, indians).

regards

[BlackRain]

<Attempt to bring thread back to original topic>

Here is some interesting reaction citizens of Europe and around the world regarding the Osama offer. Let's listen in...


-----------
The following comments reflect the balance of the opinions we have received:


A wonderful example of the "moving target" the Wahhabi Islamists have been utilizing from the start to try to bully the rest of the world. By agreeing to a truce with the terrorists, the European countries would be granting a state-like level of legitimacy, which would not be in accord with the level of responsibility Al Qaeda et al. have so far assumed.
Bret, USA

If you don't negotiate with terrorists they remain terrorists
Bede , USA

It's divide and conquer. Al-Qaeda are seeing that they can't fight every one at once. Turning America and Europe against each other will only help their cause.
Neil, Surrey

Why has he made this announcement? Things are getting tough for our mass-murdering friend. Now is the time for greater co-operation between all countries to eradicate the scourge of terrorism.
Neil McNaughton, UK


To all the people here who talk about signs of "weakness" and the like, take a step back from your offensive, take a nap, maybe some coffee and relax. Then start thinking. The Man says "Stop spilling our blood so we can Stop spilling Your Blood". I really don't know if a more simpler statement can be made. Seize the moment.
Mohammed I, Birmingham, UK

It is amazing how easily all the war fanatics on both sides of the Atlantic reject simple truths! How easily they forget that it is Americans, Israelis and some European governments, against the wish of their voters, that invaded Arab territory and not the other way round. Shame on our new Western "civilisation"!
Theo, Athens, Greece

Did millions die fighting fascism in World War Two just so we could capitulate to Bin Laden's Islamo-fascism? I think not. More troops please.
Howard, UK

As much as I detest Bush's way of 'fighting terrorism' and would like Europe to go another way - a deal for peace with the enemy has been made before. Chamberlain, anyone? And the war still came.
Camilla Sandman, Lier, Norway

Could Bush and Blair send him a videotape saying "stop attacking everyone" and then we can talk about truces and social change.
Iain, London

The doctrine that we should not negotiate with terrorists holds true... we should not pander to this weak and divisive tactic.
Dave, Manchester, UK

Seize the moment, be fair to your self. They are not terrorists, they are rebels and they have a fair case
Sea Sea, Taiwan

Why not? He asks to "stop attacking Muslims" and this should be done anyway.
Robert, Warszawa

Bin Laden can offer a truce, but those who want to control Iraqi oil will allow their people to die for the sake of Iraqi oil.
Fazal, Hyderabad Pakistan

Gosh! Do we really believe that Osama Bin Laden can guarantee the behaviour of all Islamic terrorists? Unfortunately, it seems that no single person speaks for Islam or for terrorists so I fail see how such a negotiation could occur.
Neil, UK

I'm flattered. He obviously thinks Europe is making a serious contribution to fighting terrorism. We should be encouraged by this to increase it.
Alex Swanson, Milton Keynes, UK

I think Osama is a real mastermind. He knows what appeals to Europeans and he is using it as a smart politician. This will bring a lot of credibility to his persona among us (Europeans).
Simon, Lithuania

Sounds fair to me. Had the U.S. a foreign policy which allowed for views other than their own, they might not be such a hated nation.
Rob Sich, Canada

The only decent European response to this threat is to send troops from all European countries to the region, to bring Bin Laden to Hague.
Henrik, Stockholm, Sweden


To all those that would consider this seriously I can only say "get real!" It is quite clearly an attempt to set Europe at odds with America.
We should remember that we have more in common with Americans than we will ever have with any Muslim nation.
Paul, Northampton, UK

Europe is already defeated. You may as well run-up the white flag and make it official! Bin Laden gauges Europe correctly! Weak, soft, impotent, decadent, etc.
Michael, USA

Negotiation is always preferable to conflict, and if a avenue of dialogue can be opened then excellent. However, Bin Laden has no political cause other than the 'destruction of the infidels'. His philosophy is pure hatred and violence and he has to be brought to justice for his crimes. This offer appears to be the desperate actions of a man who can feel the noose tightening around his neck. Those who are working to stop him should be encouraged.
Greg, Edinburgh

As a British Muslim, I have no wish to see terrorist atrocities perpetrated by al-Qaeda anywhere in the UK, either on my beloved friends and family, or on anyone else. So, if British intelligence agencies can negotiate a truce, I can walk safely in London once again.
Hasna Fateh, London, United Kingdom


If the offer proves to be authentic, then Europe should consider it. It turns out that the "hatred against the Western world" is really a hatred against the US and their allies.
Dominic van der Zypen, Berne, Switzerland

Absolutely not, Bin Laden is a mass-murderer. If we do as he asks we might be free from attacks for a few years maybe but eventually terrorism will come back to the shores of Europe. To make peace with this monster would be a mistake, just as seeking peace with Hitler was.
Richard, UK

Absolutely. This is an American "war" (their words!) and anything to remove the threat of terrorism from Europe should be welcomed.
Al, Bristol, England

If true, it's a sign of weakness, he still hates the West and all it stands for, but knows he is facing his comeuppance, so is trying to divide the West. Let's not forget the thousands who he has killed, including the Brits killed in New York on 11 September. We should finish him off.
John, UK

We don't negotiate with mass murderers. We hunt them down and deliver them to justice.
Roger Morgan Freedlan, Whitwick, England

I hope no one is taken in by this divide and conquer approach. Stop your suicide bombers Osama and the world will talk and listen to you!
Alan Barnett, London, UK

All offers of peace should be considered, without exception.
Dan, UK


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3628101.stm

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I can´t believe this. Even here Bin Laden has it´s influence. He managed to put europeans against americans even in a god damm internet forum.
Grow up people.
My thoughts exactly Cannibal Squirrel. Even after the first post I thought yeah there is going to a ****load of "Euro pussies cave into Bin Lads deamands" was not far wrong either. :)

[sierraone]

Europe, US and the rest of the civilised world ARE united against terrorists. There are only a few countries remaining that support terrorism. People are just confusing the support for the war in Iraq with the fight against terror. No-one protested too much against the war in Afghanistan as it was obvious why and when it happened. The war in Iraq didn't convince everyone it was part of the war on terror and it wasn't sold that way either. The fact that France, Germany and others didn't support the war in Iraq doesn't mean they are cowering to terrorism.

As a matter of course, France and Germany have made therself a target with the islamics for banning headscarves. More european countries are to follow suit too.

[Rantanplan]

Insted of being happy about this sign of waknees of Bin Laden we bash each other. Thats great.

@This Thread:

http://www.costumes.org/shows/lysistrata/photos/8/8003.jpg

[foxtrot023]

CAIRO, Egypt - A man identifying himself as Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) offered a "truce" to European countries that do not attack Muslims, saying it would begin when their soldiers leave Islamic nations, according to a recording broadcast Thursday on Arab satellite networks.

Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain quickly spurned what appeared to be an attempt to drive a wedge between Europe and America.

[BlackRain]

Hey ! What's going on here?

Switched at birth?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/1359012734407498720ebf3.jpg Member: "Cut"

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/994573357407336b40516e.jpg Member: "Rantanplan"

What's with all the Beret's??? :D

[Loco]

This is THE BERET,
http://marca.recoletos.es/ficheros/marca/fotos03/Ciclismo/bettini_txapela.jpg

[BlackRain]

Berets Everywhere....

http://www.search-rescue.net/bb/BB-16.jpg


Current US Army Berets

Black - All soldiers
Maroon - Airborne units (Paratroopers)
Tan - Ranger Battalions
Green - Special Forces units

Current US Air Force Berets

Black - Tactical Air Control Party (TACP), Air Liaison Officers (ALO), and Air Mobility Liaison Officers (AMLO)
Maroon - Pararescue
Red (scarlet) - Combat Controllers
Royal Blue - Security Forces
Grey - Combat Weather

[Sergeant]

I strongly agree with few posters here. I think this is VERY important.

Think about it, what if Bin Laden said 'I support the Republican party and Bush'. Would you then go and say that if you vote for Bush, you support terrorism? After all, that is what they wanted, right? Of course not. It's just that the reaction to terrorism and their agendas and demands, sometimes doing the exact opposite is not the best way to resist and fight terrorism. Doing the exact opposite might in fact help them. So we should just ignore what those terrorists has to say. Because they are just trying to **** with our minds.

Think about it. They sent one letter. How much that costs? Pen and paper.. not very expensive, yet it can have serious consequences on our policies and views. Come on folks, we're not this easy?!

With that letter, it's a win win situation for him. It sends a clear pressure between us. He is expecting us to start to crumble and start trashing each other. He knows, that many people in the US now asks 'what does Europe do now?!' and if we are not saying 'Come on lads, let's do it properly this time' and send out 400 000 troopers, it would be seen as failure and appeasing the terrorists. If we just don't do anything about it, it could be seen as accepting the truce. And with one cheap ass letter? That's the jackpot.. Europe will not call truce with the terrorists. Terrorists are criminals and scum. It's like making a deal with devil. They lie anyway. Are you going to trust their word? They can take it back anytime they want. It's not like they'll lose their sleep over it.

Plus, this is just simple tactics of deviding. Any crumble in coalition and the West helps the terrorists. SO REMEMBER: when we bash each other and fight because of what some dirty ass old guy said from his dark cave, the terrorists WIN!

It's the same when police comes to criminal and shakes his hand in front of his criminal buddies. The buddies gets ideas even if nothing really happened. Perfect set up!

OBL can stick his letter to his ass and hopefully catch a fatal decease from it.

[Sergeant]

And the other message from this that goes to Europeans is trying to kind of say 'this is not your war'. So some of us would say this is Americas own war and does not concern us. That's equally as bad mistake as the one where Americans would think we are actually thinking about truce.

[Rantanplan]

Hey ! What's going on here?

Switched at birth?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/1359012734407498720ebf3.jpg Member: "Cut"

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/994573357407336b40516e.jpg Member: "Rantanplan"

What's with all the Beret's??? :D

Its a highly exclusive club p-)

[army cadet_ngcsu]

LOL...it must be

[Loco]

Hey ! What's going on here?

Switched at birth?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/1359012734407498720ebf3.jpg Member: "Cut"

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/994573357407336b40516e.jpg Member: "Rantanplan"

What's with all the Beret's??? :D

Its a highly exclusive club p-)

So...all you are members of the same club that this boys? What a surprise!
http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/28/28_images/dindo_che.jpg
http://www.resistance.org.au/resrev/people01/che17.jpg

[Rantanplan]

He got no sunglasses.

No barret, no sunglasses, no zigarre = No membership

[Parzival]

HAHA; BIn LAden is not only evil, He is a stupid idiot too. Hate that guy, I hope he will burn i hell.

[Shadow]

Damn my barret sucks!lol

[Rantanplan]

No Klaus Kinskis

[Marsuitor]

Vacon, what's wrong with your avatars head? Been looking at it, but can't seem to figure it out... :(

[Loco]

It´s one of the biggest misteries of life to me: How does Nastascha Kinsky look like her father and she´s so beauty?

[HELEX]

I think he fears the Europeans are seriously searching for his hideout, because they dont need him as an excuse to attack Countrys like Iraq.
When he's captured the People will begin to ask more Questions about certain things..... :lol:

[Sergeant]

But in reality, Bin Laden is just showing weakness here.. looking desperate like that... pathetic!

[Skaman]

I would argue the movement is stronger than ever as the anti-us momentum intensifies in Iraq. Insurgents flock to the region, and its 'membership' grows. Support for The USA is floundering, and in many respects, fears of these organizations grow.

[talib_killa34]

I would argue the movement is stronger than ever as the anti-us momentum intensifies in Iraq. Insurgents flock to the region, and its 'membership' grows. Support for The USA is floundering, and in many respects, fears of these organizations grow.


So, what you are saying is that the world is flocking to the banner of UBL and his version of a "new world order"?

Support for the USA is floundering?

God help all of you, if the day comes the United States no longer wants to involve itself in the affairs of the world.

"If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher."
-A. Lincoln

[Nizark]

You think that this truce could have something to do with europe actually making a impact against these fockers? While germany has a ****load of cells, they r kicking down the doors, and the same goes for the UK, and france to a lesser extent.

[TALOS]

To all the people here who talk about signs of "weakness" and the like, take a step back from your offensive, take a nap, maybe some coffee and relax. Then start thinking. The Man says "Stop spilling our blood so we can Stop spilling Your Blood". I really don't know if a more simpler statement can be made. Seize the moment.
Mohammed I, Birmingham, UK
Yeah, I bet thats exactly what they want us to do.

[TALOS]

Ducimus said

The US acted in WW2 out of self interest and as a means of containing a growing global threat. The US feared being boxed in on both the Western and Eastern Hemispheres. Nonetheless, America helped a great deal in Europe, and their efforts should not be forgotten. Europe however, does not owe American anything. America and Europe are facing a complex and indifferent world, very unlike the globe some sixty years ago. Stop using the Second World War as a tool to rake in European support as if it is OWED

I never said anybody owed the US, what I said was that the europeans begged the US to get involved, by sending emissaries and letters etc requesting they assist. Then after the fact they said that they didnt need the help and that the US just meddles.
And my comments were in reply to yours, I wasnt using ww2 as any "Rake". And if you look carefully, there was a section in NATO I believe that was demanded by the europeans that said all NATO members must come to the aid of another NATO country that has been attacked and that was done to ensure the USA wouldnt take so long next time. Then after 911 some EURO countries complained that the US used the clause.

[talib_killa34]

The war goes on, allies will fight AQ together or not. Now is not the time to be divided.

The war with Iraq is over, Saddam Hussein is in a POW cell, his sons are dead, there is no putting him back on the throne. The war was just, if not belated. War is war.

We all can move on now, united against world terrorism. Get complacent, Paris will burn and so will Wash. DC.

Stand firm! :|

[foxtrot023]

Ducimus said

I never said anybody owed the US, what I said was that the europeans begged the US to get involved, by sending emissaries and letters etc requesting they assist. Then after the fact they said that they didnt need the help and that the US just meddles.
And my comments were in reply to yours, I wasnt using ww2 as any "Rake". And if you look carefully, there was a section in NATO I believe that was demanded by the europeans that said all NATO members must come to the aid of another NATO country that has been attacked and that was done to ensure the USA wouldnt take so long next time. Then after 911 some EURO countries complained that the US used the clause.

First Point
By Europeans begging the US to participate WHO do you exactly mean, UK? Russia? Germany? Italy? France? Spain? Sweden?

As I recall, it was Churchill that really wanted the US in WW2, not European nations.

Second Point
You said that after 9/11 that some european nations complained that the US used the clause, CAN you tell me which ones?????? Do you have any source besides imagination?

So unless you give references on what you say
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu6.jpg

[talib_killa34]

As I recall, it was Churchill that really wanted the US in WW2, not European nations.


By 1941, from France to the gates of Moscow in the east, there was pretty much German control of the European continent....so yeah they sure did not want the US involved. (But they still declared war on us- :cantbeli: )

I'm sure the occupied nations like France, Norway, Poland all wanted someone to liberate them.

Which is pretty much the way it happened.

Remember Stalin wanted and needed the "second front" from the allies, so I would count the USSR too.

[usa320]

We don´t bomb them, they don´t bomb us. Our tactics work. Appeasement (from both sides) simply.

Wanna know something mustamato? That statement is a shining beacon of stupidity.

Appease terrorists? What are you, a 4 year old? Or a hippy who hits the bong to much?

The day we appease terrorists is the day any hope of a safe future, any hope for civiliation, any hope for freedom, dies.[/code]

[foxtrot023]

As I recall, it was Churchill that really wanted the US in WW2, not European nations.


By 1941, from France to the gates of Moscow in the east, there was pretty much German control of the European continent....so yeah they sure did not want the US involved. (But they still declared war on us- :cantbeli: )

I'm sure the occupied nations like France, Norway, Poland all wanted someone to liberate them.

Which is pretty much the way it happened.

Remember Stalin wanted and needed the "second front" from the allies, so I would count the USSR too.

True, England and the USSR (once it was attacked by Germany) wanted the US in, however the one person that really pushed for it was Churchill (not that I blame him), and I am sure people in oppressed territories wanted to be liberated, but the way TALOS places his post, is taken out of context. And remember that the US did not join the war until attacked by Japan, and did not join the war in Europe until Hitler declared war on the US (how stupid he could be!) due to the strong current of isolationism in the US.

Likewise the point that is truly stupid is the one on 9/11 and the clause (the 5th I think). Which European nation refused to help the US after 9/11? Only with the Iraq War, which in some European countries is not viewed the same as the war on Terrorism (as Afganistan is seen) did France drag their feet with sending troops to TURKEY, not the US.

Regards

[Ballistic]

<Attempt to bring thread back to original topic>

Here is some interesting reaction citizens of Europe and around the world regarding the Osama offer. Let's listen in...


-----------
The following comments reflect the balance of the opinions we have received:


A wonderful example of the "moving target" the Wahhabi Islamists have been utilizing from the start to try to bully the rest of the world. By agreeing to a truce with the terrorists, the European countries would be granting a state-like level of legitimacy, which would not be in accord with the level of responsibility Al Qaeda et al. have so far assumed.
Bret, USA

If you don't negotiate with terrorists they remain terrorists
Bede , USA

It's divide and conquer. Al-Qaeda are seeing that they can't fight every one at once. Turning America and Europe against each other will only help their cause.
Neil, Surrey

Why has he made this announcement? Things are getting tough for our mass-murdering friend. Now is the time for greater co-operation between all countries to eradicate the scourge of terrorism.
Neil McNaughton, UK


To all the people here who talk about signs of "weakness" and the like, take a step back from your offensive, take a nap, maybe some coffee and relax. Then start thinking. The Man says "Stop spilling our blood so we can Stop spilling Your Blood". I really don't know if a more simpler statement can be made. Seize the moment.
Mohammed I, Birmingham, UK

It is amazing how easily all the war fanatics on both sides of the Atlantic reject simple truths! How easily they forget that it is Americans, Israelis and some European governments, against the wish of their voters, that invaded Arab territory and not the other way round. Shame on our new Western "civilisation"!
Theo, Athens, Greece

Did millions die fighting fascism in World War Two just so we could capitulate to Bin Laden's Islamo-fascism? I think not. More troops please.
Howard, UK

As much as I detest Bush's way of 'fighting terrorism' and would like Europe to go another way - a deal for peace with the enemy has been made before. Chamberlain, anyone? And the war still came.
Camilla Sandman, Lier, Norway

Could Bush and Blair send him a videotape saying "stop attacking everyone" and then we can talk about truces and social change.
Iain, London

The doctrine that we should not negotiate with terrorists holds true... we should not pander to this weak and divisive tactic.
Dave, Manchester, UK

Seize the moment, be fair to your self. They are not terrorists, they are rebels and they have a fair case
Sea Sea, Taiwan

Why not? He asks to "stop attacking Muslims" and this should be done anyway.
Robert, Warszawa

Bin Laden can offer a truce, but those who want to control Iraqi oil will allow their people to die for the sake of Iraqi oil.
Fazal, Hyderabad Pakistan

Gosh! Do we really believe that Osama Bin Laden can guarantee the behaviour of all Islamic terrorists? Unfortunately, it seems that no single person speaks for Islam or for terrorists so I fail see how such a negotiation could occur.
Neil, UK

I'm flattered. He obviously thinks Europe is making a serious contribution to fighting terrorism. We should be encouraged by this to increase it.
Alex Swanson, Milton Keynes, UK

I think Osama is a real mastermind. He knows what appeals to Europeans and he is using it as a smart politician. This will bring a lot of credibility to his persona among us (Europeans).
Simon, Lithuania

Sounds fair to me. Had the U.S. a foreign policy which allowed for views other than their own, they might not be such a hated nation.
Rob Sich, Canada

The only decent European response to this threat is to send troops from all European countries to the region, to bring Bin Laden to Hague.
Henrik, Stockholm, Sweden


To all those that would consider this seriously I can only say "get real!" It is quite clearly an attempt to set Europe at odds with America.
We should remember that we have more in common with Americans than we will ever have with any Muslim nation.
Paul, Northampton, UK

Europe is already defeated. You may as well run-up the white flag and make it official! Bin Laden gauges Europe correctly! Weak, soft, impotent, decadent, etc.
Michael, USA

Negotiation is always preferable to conflict, and if a avenue of dialogue can be opened then excellent. However, Bin Laden has no political cause other than the 'destruction of the infidels'. His philosophy is pure hatred and violence and he has to be brought to justice for his crimes. This offer appears to be the desperate actions of a man who can feel the noose tightening around his neck. Those who are working to stop him should be encouraged.
Greg, Edinburgh

As a British Muslim, I have no wish to see terrorist atrocities perpetrated by al-Qaeda anywhere in the UK, either on my beloved friends and family, or on anyone else. So, if British intelligence agencies can negotiate a truce, I can walk safely in London once again.
Hasna Fateh, London, United Kingdom


If the offer proves to be authentic, then Europe should consider it. It turns out that the "hatred against the Western world" is really a hatred against the US and their allies.
Dominic van der Zypen, Berne, Switzerland

Absolutely not, Bin Laden is a mass-murderer. If we do as he asks we might be free from attacks for a few years maybe but eventually terrorism will come back to the shores of Europe. To make peace with this monster would be a mistake, just as seeking peace with Hitler was.
Richard, UK

Absolutely. This is an American "war" (their words!) and anything to remove the threat of terrorism from Europe should be welcomed.
Al, Bristol, England

If true, it's a sign of weakness, he still hates the West and all it stands for, but knows he is facing his comeuppance, so is trying to divide the West. Let's not forget the thousands who he has killed, including the Brits killed in New York on 11 September. We should finish him off.
John, UK

We don't negotiate with mass murderers. We hunt them down and deliver them to justice.
Roger Morgan Freedlan, Whitwick, England

I hope no one is taken in by this divide and conquer approach. Stop your suicide bombers Osama and the world will talk and listen to you!
Alan Barnett, London, UK

All offers of peace should be considered, without exception.
Dan, UK


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3628101.stm

Well to put it simply, there sure a lot of clueless and idiotic people around. :cantbeli: :bash: Atleast some people in there have a brain and use it wisely.

[talib_killa34]

Which European nation refused to help the US after 9/11?

None, brother! ;)

P.S If I was alive in Holland circa 1942, I'd be 100 % behind a US intervention for sure dude. :)

[TALOS]

As I recall, it was Churchill that really wanted the US in WW2, not European nations.


By 1941, from France to the gates of Moscow in the east, there was pretty much German control of the European continent....so yeah they sure did not want the US involved. (But they still declared war on us- :cantbeli: )

I'm sure the occupied nations like France, Norway, Poland all wanted someone to liberate them.

Which is pretty much the way it happened.

Remember Stalin wanted and needed the "second front" from the allies, so I would count the USSR too.

True, England and the USSR (once it was attacked by Germany) wanted the US in, however the one person that really pushed for it was Churchill (not that I blame him), and I am sure people in oppressed territories wanted to be liberated, but the way TALOS places his post, is taken out of context. And remember that the US did not join the war until attacked by Japan, and did not join the war in Europe until Hitler declared war on the US (how stupid he could be!) due to the strong current of isolationism in the US.

Likewise the point that is truly stupid is the one on 9/11 and the clause (the 5th I think). Which European nation refused to help the US after 9/11? Only with the Iraq War, which in some European countries is not viewed the same as the war on Terrorism (as Afganistan is seen) did France drag their feet with sending troops to TURKEY, not the US.

Regards
Russia is in Europe last time I checked, and I included Britain, (maybe erroneously as they dont really consider themselves europe per se) as for the other I never said anyone REFUSED, I said they(will try to find the articles) complained that the US used the article.

[TALOS]

Second Point
You said that after 9/11 that some european nations complained that the US used the clause, CAN you tell me which ones?????? Do you have any source besides imagination?

So unless you give references on what you say
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu6.jpg
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/10/02/inv.nato.if/
But Oakley added, NATO's council meeting on Tuesday may have helped quieten some of the "complaints in NATO that they had not been told enough," at previous meetings.
Having to review the info it seems the complaints were about info sharing but I had also read in other articles in news magazines about complaints of being REQUIRED to aid the US. Now I cant remember if it was politicians who said it or just opinion pieces in news magazines but I will try to find them.
As for your truly witty ( :roll: not) picture, and the STFU caption, grow up a little and just ask nicely for the links. P.S. when I am wrong I will always say so and try to find out better info.

[martinexsquaddie]

possibly 9/11 was'nt what nato was designed for and there were not any real clear targets to go after

[foxtrot023]

Second Point
You said that after 9/11 that some european nations complained that the US used the clause, CAN you tell me which ones?????? Do you have any source besides imagination?

So unless you give references on what you say
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu6.jpg
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/10/02/inv.nato.if/
But Oakley added, NATO's council meeting on Tuesday may have helped quieten some of the "complaints in NATO that they had not been told enough," at previous meetings.
Having to review the info it seems the complaints were about info sharing but I had also read in other articles in news magazines about complaints of being REQUIRED to aid the US. Now I cant remember if it was politicians who said it or just opinion pieces in news magazines but I will try to find them.
As for your truly witty ( :roll: not) picture, and the STFU caption, grow up a little and just ask nicely for the links. P.S. when I am wrong I will always say so and try to find out better info.

Dude Pleasee cut the crap,

you said and I quote your post:

there was a section in NATO I believe that was demanded by the europeans that said all NATO members must come to the aid of another NATO country that has been attacked and that was done to ensure the USA wouldnt take so long next time. Then after 911 some EURO countries complained that the US used the clause.

And I tell you that after 9/11 all NATO nations supported the US by involving the 5th clause, and who complained? NO ONE. The article you placed as ¨reference¨ only states that NATO had invoked clause 5 and that they were waiting for the US to come to them with the plan (because the US was the one doing the plan, as was their right). Once again WHO complained on the use of the 5th clause by the US?

BTW, the 5th clause was placed not by Europe but by the US, to send the USSR a clear message that attacking West Germany will create war with the US.

You are right about the STFU (although it is a funny one) however you started the crap, placing Europeans as whinners, and no documentation supporting it whatsoever. Dude, what you wrote was mean spirited and plainly wrong, including the part of WW2. How would you feel if I wrote:

¨Man, those americans sure are wimps, they came in 1776 begging to France and Spain and the Netherlands for arms, supplies, for the Spanish and French fleet to blocade the british one. They whinned and whinned, so we had to send troops as well just to have some silence around here. The spaniards attacked from Florida, tying some 10,000 brits in the south, the French attacked with that lafayette dude.....¨

sure sounds offensive right? That´s how you sounded the first time, and it is even more offensive when you consider that UK, Italian and Spanish troops have died fighting besides US troops in Iraq, and from other nations as well in Afganistan. However peace and no more flaming.

Regards

[TALOS]

¨Man, those americans sure are wimps, they came in 1776 begging to France and Spain and the Netherlands for arms, supplies, for the Spanish and French fleet to blocade the british one. They whinned and whinned, so we had to send troops as well just to have some silence around here. The spaniards attacked from Florida, tying some 10,000 brits in the south, the French attacked with that lafayette dude.....¨

sure sounds offensive right? That´s how you sounded the first time, and it is even more offensive when you consider that UK, Italian and Spanish troops have died fighting besides US troops in Iraq, and from other nations as well in Afganistan. However peace and no more flaming.

Regards

How does that even come close to what I said.

there was a section in NATO I believe that was demanded by the europeans that said all NATO members must come to the aid of another NATO country that has been attacked and that was done to ensure the USA wouldnt take so long next time. Then after 911 some EURO countries complained that the US used the clause.
I already said in my reply that the complaining was in regards to a lack of info, re read my reply, not the first post but my correction.
besides which, did you not see the " I believe" part. That means I was not stating it was guaranteed but was what I recalled. after that I said I would look into it and so it was complaints about something else (info) I apologize that I didnt make it clear enough that I was correcting myself.

[foxtrot023]

¨Man, those americans sure are wimps, they came in 1776 begging to France and Spain and the Netherlands for arms, supplies, for the Spanish and French fleet to blocade the british one. They whinned and whinned, so we had to send troops as well just to have some silence around here. The spaniards attacked from Florida, tying some 10,000 brits in the south, the French attacked with that lafayette dude.....¨

sure sounds offensive right? That´s how you sounded the first time, and it is even more offensive when you consider that UK, Italian and Spanish troops have died fighting besides US troops in Iraq, and from other nations as well in Afganistan. However peace and no more flaming.

Regards

How does that even come close to what I said.

there was a section in NATO I believe that was demanded by the europeans that said all NATO members must come to the aid of another NATO country that has been attacked and that was done to ensure the USA wouldnt take so long next time. Then after 911 some EURO countries complained that the US used the clause.
I already said in my reply that the complaining was in regards to a lack of info, re read my reply, not the first post but my correction.
besides which, did you not see the " I believe" part. That means I was not stating it was guaranteed but was what I recalled. after that I said I would look into it and so it was complaints about something else (info) I apologize that I didnt make it clear enough that I was correcting myself.

Fine, fine, lets sign the peace treaty Ok?

[TALOS]

Fine, fine, lets sign the peace treaty Ok?
fine by me, I never did like arguing, just discussing ;)