Ninjas in WWII

[Delta Niner]

Could anyone provide information or photos if ninja tactics was used by the japanese during WWII? Or if any ninja like units ever existed in Japan?

[big_les]

All I know is they flipped out a lot. Like all the time ;)

Seriously, it's an interesting thought, not so much 'Ninja' which I think are unlikely, but some sort of covert ops by the Japanese. Sorry I can't be of help.

[hist2004]

Could anyone provide information or photos if ninja tactics was used by the japanese during WWII? Or if any ninja like units ever existed in Japan?

I will try to answer your question. The Japanese society prior to WWII (and certainly during it)
was based on a martial code Bushido (The traditional code of the Japanese samurai, stressing
honor, self-discipline, bravery, and simple living.) This culture permeated the entire Japanese
population. From the time they were young boys, Japanese youth where schooled in the way
of Bushido. So in a sense, the entire Japanese military establishment had this indoctrination.
It created a fierce and fanatical enemy (and a foolishly brave one at times).
The US Marines who fought against them, had to annihilate them almost to the last man in order
to defeat them in battle. Examples of this are Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Guadalcanal, Saipan,
and the various Atolls in the Pacific. The Japanese also looked upon their Emperor as a God,
and saw him as infallible. The below article will shed some more light on this matter. As far as
“ninja” units, there were none per say, the Special Naval Landing Forces (Imperial Marines)
were certainly an elite force, but I have never heard the type of unit your inquiring about. Again
it’s more to do with the culture.–Hist2004

The Japanese Soldier

The unique nature of centrally guided energy brought about the miracle of Japan's rise. Japan's soldiers, however, more than any other force built the nation.

Throughout Japan's history, the warrior class embodied the best characteristics and highest virtues of the Japanese people. The leading military families that exercise political power nourished this spirit in the elite over the centuries. The active but also stoic Zen Buddhism perfected and refined the character of the Japanese warrior and gave it a clear ascetic tone which remains even today the essential characteristic of the Japanese soldier.

The warrior class was not only an armed instrument in the hands of the landed nobility or the major military rulers, but also an elite with its own class ethos. The samurai had to be able to do more than fight. He had to embody an elevated and noble form of everything Japanese in all he said and did. He had to stand out both militarily and in social life.The samurai class had great privileges, but also greater responsibilities. He owed absolute obedience to the landed nobility or the Shogun. But he also had deeper and broader obligations. He could not live a comfortable life on own his own land. His greatest honor was to bear the sword.

The Sword as Symbol

Since ancient times, the Japanese sword has been not only a means of power, but a symbol for everything that the samurai served. The sword is the symbol of justice which the samurai was obligated to defend under all circumstances. The Samurai class had the study to promote social justice as well. There are countless legends of swords that recall our myths of swords in the Niebelungen tales. There are tales of swords that act on their own, without the necessity of their owners doing anything, of swords wielded as it were by a ghostly hand that struck down dozens of enemies. Other swords drew themselves from their sheaths and struck down unjust and the evil foes. Even today swords are made by the same families that have forged them for centuries. Sword-making even today in Japan is more an act of worship than one of craftsmanship. The smith who passes on the secrets of his father to his sons fasts the day before he begins to forge a sword and undergoes purifying ceremonies, since the Shinto religion views physical cleanliness as a prerequisite to spiritual cleanliness. Clothed in ceremonial white priestly robes, the apprentices hammer the steel in unison. The master follows carefully the slow development of the blade, which at exactly the right moment he plunges into cold water. The holy process results not only in a strong blade; it also reflects the deep significance of what a Japanese sees in his sword.

One has to have seen the devotion and admiration Japan's soldiers have before a centuries-old blade. They take a prescribed stance and hold their breath so as to avoid marring even with their breath the honored and shining blade that is perfect in every regard. Then one understands what significance the sword has for Japanese soldiers. It is not only a respected weapon, but also a symbol for everything that is the best produced by the Japanese race.

The samurai is pictured and described in every school book and picture book for small children. He is the model and noblest essence of being Japanese. The normally restrained Japanese, both men and women, weep in the theaters and movies when the heroic Samurai dies in combat, all the while showing his passion and stoic attitude. Even in today's modern and industrialized Japan, the heroic is esteemed as much as it was centuries ago.

As a result of modernization, the samurai class was scattered throughout the country and absorbed by the masses. Its members spread their formerly unique ethos throughout the population and had a profound educational impact on the whole nation. Japan's new army was a people's army with universal service. The idea that Japan's officer corps today comes exclusively from the earlier samurai class is false. Japanese officers today come from the entire people. But it is true that the army has retained the purest form of the samurai spirit. It displays it clearly to the whole nation. The "three living bombs" displayed the samurai spirit in Shanghai in 1931. Three simple soldiers carried concealed bombs to open a passage for the soldiers who would follow them. The same spirit filled the tens of thousands who charged into the guns at Port Arthur in 1904/05 until the corpses filled the ditches and allowed their comrades to storm over them to capture the enemy fortress. It is the spirit of the samurai that allowed General Nogi to follow his emperor into death. It is the same spirit that filled the men in Japan's tiny submarines who, assured of their own death, snuck into Pearl Harbor and delivered the decisive blow against the American fleet. It is the spirit that filled the stoops that stormed British fortress Singapore, that filled those who fell to prepare the way for Japan's great military triumphs. They carried with them the ashes of their fallen comrades so that they too could participate in the triumph. The spirit of the samurai lives today with the same force that enabled Japan's army, an army of the whole people, to fight its many recent battles.

The first requirement of the samurai is a readiness to give his life. Without this willingness even the best weapons are of no avail. First the spirit, then training wins victory. The spirit must from the beginning include the willingness to die. That does not mean that the Japanese soldier seeks death. Rather, in sacrificial death in battle he finds the most perfect fulfillment of his life. But he wants to achieve a goal through his death — the realization of justice, which is the highest manifestation of the divine will of the emperor. His first military goal is not his own death, rather the realization of that for which he fights.

Death as such holds no terrors for the Japanese warrior. For the Japanese, death is not an end, rather a stage in the eternal progression from ancestors to posterity. It is a door that is not the end, but the beginning. Death on the battlefield makes one a kind of god, a "Kami," who does not dwell far from the living, rather always and ever joins with millions of others to hold his protective hand over the Japanese nation and people. He defends their happiness and growth, and takes a living role in all the earthly affairs of the entire people. The fallen become divine, and remain close to the coming generations. They are honored by them daily and live on in the nation as models and defenders of coming generations.

The Army's Training and Equipment

Training in the Japanese army puts the hardest demands on the soldiers. Training is conducted under the blazing sun and in bitter cold over the harshest terrain. Japan had two essential military tasks from the beginning of its modernization. It needed a strong navy to defend the island nation, and a strong army to defend the bridgeheads on the mainland that it established at the beginning of its modern history. Not only were two different types of military training necessary, but also two different foreign policy goals. The army secured the Japanese islands by expanding the bridgeheads on the mainland, while the fleet secured Japan from the south, where vital raw materials needed for Japan's industry in the Southwest Pacific islands were under the control of foreign nations, but were near Japanese territory. Great deeds of heroism were done by Japan's young army in its first battle against China in 1894/95. The numerically vastly inferior Japanese army defeated the Imperial Chinese army on every front. It proved advantageous that many Japanese officers, who before the German-French War of 1870 had held the French army in high esteem, had learned something from the best army in the world, the Prussian-German army. The Sino-Japanese War ended with Japan's complete victory. But the world hardly noticed. The war was considered an internal affair of the East Asian nations.

During the years of peace that followed, Japan carefully and systematically built its military. The fleet was expanded, the army strengthened. Japan was able to risk the unexpected, and take on the strongest army that then existed, the Russian, in Manchuria. The world thought it a foregone conclusion. One laughed at the little Japanese soldiers and mocked their heroic efforts as suicidal, as the hari-kari of a nation gone crazy.

But Japan knew what it was doing. It knew that it was protecting its territory, that it had to defeat the growing Russian threat. The army and navy fought with identical grim determination. Admiral Togo had returned from England in 1875, where he had studied English naval tactics for many years. He won the battle at Tsuchima. It was a brilliant naval victory, the kind is rare in history. Togo's naval victory led to a decisive turning point in the Russo-Japanese war, eliminating Russian sea power in the Pacific for decades. The historic message "Japan's future depends on your actions today," signaled from the mast of the flag ship "Mikasa", was the spark that ignited a holy enthusiasm of the crews of the battleships, cruisers and torpedo boats to win the battle.

Years of hard training paid off. The Japanese victory was complete. The tsar's fleet sunk under the blows of the rising sun.

The Japanese naval academy in Etadschima looks at first glance more like an ascetic leadership school than the training ground of Japan's future naval officers, though every element of modern naval warfare is taught there. The training at this unique military school is ascetic, strict and well-rounded. Only 200 of 8000 applications are accepted after the most rigorous examination not only of their technical and physical abilities, but above all of their moral character. 44 months of thorough training follow. A nine-month tour of duty abroad concludes the training. The English and Americans are known to smile in pity and shake their heads over the primitive accommodations of even the highest officers. But Japanese officers are trained to see that as natural. One accepts the most basic and cramped quarters as a way of increasing the defenses or the speed of the ship.

Japan's raiders and pirates had roamed the entire Southwestern Pacific, but from the 17th to the 19th centuries the government prohibited all naval activity. But the naval spirit never died. It found a glorious resurrection three hundred years later in the men who built Japan's navy and saw to it that the island nation was defended by a strong fleet.

The Japanese fleet has not lacked honor since its remarkable victory in the Russo-Japanese war. Only the best are chosen for the navy. The most modern technology of naval warfare is used. Japan's island nature allows for a far more powerful concentration of naval power. Favorable harbors and proximity to the industrial strength of the home islands allow for a wide operating radius, while the English fleet depends on widely separated bases across the entire world, which results in a dilution of its striking power.

The Japanese naval leadership recognized these strategic advantages from the beginning, and built its fleet accordingly. Nonetheless, the Washington Naval Agreement of 1922 granted Japan a considerably smaller navy than England or America. As the terms of the agreement were announced, several Japanese naval officers committed hari-kari to show the public and the world that they saw the agreement as a humiliation of the whole Japanese fleet. England and America smiled at this "theatrical fanaticism" by Japanese officers. They smiled and felt secure in their numerically superior fleets, and in the quality of their naval officers, who came from the leading families of the plutocracy, and who did not want to give up their accustomed luxury when serving on warships.

What could America and England know of the sacrificial spirit of Japan's heroes, who suicidally plunged down on enemy fleets at Pearl Harbor or the Malacca Peninsula? At best they could only defend themselves, but could do nothing against the released power of Japanese heroes, for whom life was nothing, the greatness of their Fatherland and their Emperor everything?

The Japanese army displayed the same heroic spirit. Since the beginning of Japan's modern armed forces, it has gone from victory to victory. It never suffered a military defeat, rarely even a setback.

It is impressive to observe Japanese army cadets, whose training is as hard as the navy's. Each morning before sunrise, they gather outside and bow respectfully in the direction of the Imperial Palace. Then each silently reads the famous declaration of the Emperor Meiji to his soldiers and sailors. I have seen Japanese officers on the battlefields of China who, after a bitter night battle, despite total exhaustion, before sunrise read the holiest possession of the Japanese soldier, the order of the Emperor Meiji, in a way that was a cultic expression of a commandment. Only then did they care for the wounded and the fallen. Only then did they place the ashes of fallen heroes in wooden caskets and arrange their shipment back to the distant homeland.

Honoring the Dead

There is no more moving remembrance of the dead than the annual commemoration in recent years at Tokyo's Yasukuni Shrine for the heroes who fell for the fatherland. It is a nocturnal ceremony with no lights. Shinto priests call out the names of the fallen heroes so that they may join the pantheon of Japan's heroes. It is as if the wings of those who died in the steppes of Mongolia, or the jungles of the Amur, or the plains of China and the tropic isles of the South Sea beat over the ranks of admirals and generals gathered to hear the priests of the national cult as they sing out their oaths in the spring night.

No one knows Japan who has not seen how the ashes of fallen heroes are received in harbor cities. Hundreds stand in rows in solemn silence, members of national associations, veterans, the national women's league, and school children. They bow solemnly as soldiers, usually comrades of the fallen, carry the urns of ashes as if they were carrying something holy. The urns are delivered to the family members and brought to their distant villages. They sit in the trains in silence, holding the urns on their knees. Each who enters the train takes his hat off and bows deeply before the heroic spirit of the fallen and burns a small candle as a sacrifice. This is how the homeland honors its soldiers who have died on distant battlefields.

Japan's army has been at war for ten years. Since the emperor's soldiers marched into Manchuria, the flow of ashes of fallen heroes back to the Japanese islands has continued. For ten years the Emperor's army has been practicing the hard lessons of its training, and proved its devotion with hundreds of thousands of sacrifices. The Japanese people know what these sacrifices mean, for their awareness of their common national fate and that of the national community has been clear since the earliest times.

The historic order of the Emperor Meiji lays out the moral conduct of Japan's soldiers. It lays out not only their obligations to the fatherland, but also the relations between soldiers and officers, but also to the enemy. This order placed grave responsibilities on the army. The Japanese army is therefore filled with the will to sacrifice, but also demands as spiritual leader the same willingness to sacrifice of the entire nation.

The Emperor Cult

They demand this in the name of the emperor, since the Japanese army is directly subordinate to the emperor. In international relations that relate to the military security of the nation, the Japanese military insists on the deciding word. It took upon itself the responsibility for the Manchurian campaign, without going through complicated diplomatic negotiations. The army, directly subordinate to the emperor, sees itself as the executor of the emperor's sacred will. For the same reason, the army seeks its holiest task as educating the national spirit. As in no other land on earth, the army is the nation's educator. The army tirelessly defends the national interest when weak politicians or industrialists with foreign connections saw humiliating compromise as the best policy. Many officers committed hari-kari when treaties or agreements were made that were inconsistent with the nation's honor. Members of the army do not hesitate to remove statesmen and important personages who in their eyes stand in the way of the national interest. They feel themselves as holy executors of the godly order that encompasses the ancient strength of the Japanese people. Modern history is rich in such actions, which however happen only when in the eyes of nationalist circles Japan's national honor is at stake. This fanaticism reached its high point in the rebellion of young officers in 1936, during which government leaders were killed and parts of the capital were occupied for days by fanatic Nipponistic troops.

This may to our eyes appear to be mutiny, but it can only be explained by the spiritual condition of the Japanese, who saw that which was most holy to them, the greatness and dignity of their nation, at risk. As fighting samurai, they reached for their weapons to battle injustice.

The emperor cult's strongest supporters are in the Japanese army. In honoring the emperor, they see the strongest expression of their national faith, for his ancestry reaches back unbroken to the sun god. The person of the emperor is the holiest thing not only on earth, but between heaven and earth. In the eyes of the Japanese, the emperor himself is a god.

These are ideas that are difficult to understand from our Western perspective, and hard to express in Western language. But the emperor cult, which one might call the ancestor worship of the entire nation, is not the private belief of individual Japanese. It is the core of the Japanese community. Without it, the Japanese would be only an interesting and unusually hard-working Asian people. The emperor cult not only raises the Japanese far above the other peoples, but also forms the most unique form of government, governmental consciousness and religious fanaticism in the entire world.

One can only understand the enormous power that the emperor cult gives the Japanese people which one has seem it in action in Japanese life. The materialistic peoples of America and England cannot understand this form of state religion. They do not comprehend it. They cannot understand the enormous strength the emperor cult gives the Japanese people. This strength is spiritual, and can outweigh superior fleets of battleships and armaments budgets. It cannot be measured in numbers, but it is there, wonderful and productive.

The relationship of the Japanese people to their emperor is that of the child to the father, the ancient family relationship of obligation and obedience. The emperor only rarely exercises actual power. The emperor incorporates less real power as the authority that stands far above temporary power. The Japanese owes obedience to his parents, who in turn care for their children. The family relationship does not end with a single generation, but continues eternally, just as the emperor's family according to legend has continued since the beginning of the Japanese islands and will be as eternal as the Japanese people itself.

This faith finds its outward expression when the Japanese see the revered person of the emperor, or when the fanatically revered personification of Japan's greatness and faith travels through the streets of the capital, or during a review of the most modern tank or air force units. The streets are scrubbed clean. Reverent silence falls over the capital. The masses stand respectfully in the side streets. When the emperor's Mercedes drives past, the masses silently bow such that they cannot see him. It is not permitted to look upon the person of the emperor. Every Japanese, no matter how well educated, would see such a thing as an insult to a holy person and therefore to his own faith in the state.

The modern Japanese see no contradiction between the fact that the emperor today reviews the most modern weapons, and perhaps tomorrow within the holy precincts of the emperor's Palace acts as the supreme mediator between heaven and earth. Following ancient customs, the emperor himself symbolically sows a rice field while his wife weaves traditional silk. The royal pair carries out both ancient Japanese practices. The Japanese people honor not only the royal house, but also the entire people.

The Army as the People's Spiritual School

Just as the samurai saw his moral duty to defend justice against injustice, the Japanese army sees its task as the education of the people in social justice, according to the will of the emperor. They fight untiringly against everything they see as un-Japanese, against the harmful influences of individualism and capitalism. They fight for social reform and for the social betterment of the suffering masses. They do so not only because their own best elements come from the people, but because they see it as the fulfillment of their highest ethical duty. True to the samurai tradition, the army sacrifices its own good for that of the community. They demand that the Japanese people follow their model. The army is the strongest socializing force in Japan.

Japan's army has always favored the strength of the spirit over the strength of the material. Only this has allowed Japan's soldiers to win against overwhelming odds on battlefields everywhere. The willingness to be finished with life, to view death as not the end, does not mean that Japanese soldier seeks a hero's death, though it is esteemed as the fulfillment of a soldier's life. He keeps his military goal before his eyes when with stoic determination and fanatic will to victory he storms the enemy position. He has left everything, home and family, and does not expect to reaches its pinnacle during war, inspires Japan's soldiers today. In warplanes, two-man submarines or in storming the bunkers at Singapore, it gives him the strength to overcome, the willingness to die and an unshakable will to victory.

Regards,
Hist2004

[Obergefreiter]

Well, I was going to answer, but Hist took care of it much betetr than I could have.

Good answer.

[hist2004]

Top Secret
Operation Downfall

by James Martin Davis
The Story of the Invasion of Japan

Deep in the recesses of the National Archives in Washington, DC, hidden for over four decades, lie thousands of pages of yellowing and dusty documents. These documents, which are now declassified, still bear the stamp, "Top Secret." Contained in these little examined documents are the detailed plans for "Operation Downfall," the code name for the scheduled American invasion of Japan.

Only a few Americans in 1945, and fewer Americans today, are aware of the elaborate plans that had been prepared for the American invasion of the Japanese home islands. Even fewer are aware of how close America actually came to launching that invasion and of what the Japanese had in store for us had the invasion of Japan actually been launched.

"Operation Downfall" was prepared in its final form during the spring and summer of 1945. this plan called for two massive military undertakings to be carried out in succession, and aimed at the very heart of the Japanese Empire.

In the first invasion, in what was code named "Operation Olympic", American combat troops would be landed by amphibious assault during the early morning hours of November 1, 1945, on Japan itself. After an unprecedented naval and aerial bombardment, 14 combat divisions of American soldiers and marines would land on heavily fortified and defended Kyushu, the southernmost of the Japanese home islands.

On March 1, 1946, the second invasion, code named "Operation Coronet", would send at least 22 more American combat divisions against one million Japanese defenders to assault the main island of Honshu and the Tokyo Plain in a final effort to obtain the unconditional surrender of Japan.

With the exception of a part of the British Pacific Fleet, "Operation Downfall" was to be a strictly American operation. It called for the utilization of the entire United States Marine Corps, the employment of the entire United States Navy in the Pacific, and for the efforts of the 7th Air Force, the 8th Air Force recently deployed from Europe, the 20th Air Force, and for the American Far Eastern Air Force. Over 1.5 million combat soldiers, with millions more in support, would be directly involved in these two amphibious assaults. A total of 4.5 million American servicemen, over 40% of all servicemen still in uniform in 1945, were to be a part of "Operation Downfall."

The invasion of Japan was to be no easy military undertaking and casualties were expected to be extremely heavy. Admiral William Leahy estimated that there would be over 250,000 Americans killed or wounded on Kyusky alone. General Charles Willoughby, MacArthur's Chief of Intelligence, estimated that American casualties from the entire operation would be one million men by the fall of 1946. General Willoughby's own intelligence staff considered this to be a conservative estimate.

During the summer of 1945, America had little time to prepare for such a monumental endeavor, but our top military leaders were in almost unanimous agreement that such an invasion was necessary.

While a naval blockade and strategic bombing of Japan was considered to be useful, General Douglas MacArthur considered a naval blockade of Japan ineffective to bring about an unconditional surrender. General George C. Marshall was of the opinion that air power over Japan as it was over German, would not be sufficient to bring an end to the war. While most of our top military minds believed that a continued naval blockade and the strategic bombing campaign would further weaken Japan, few of them believed that the blockade or the bombing would bring about her unconditional surrender. The advocates for invasion agreed that while a naval blockade chokes, it does not kill; and though strategic bombing might destroy cities, it still leaves whole armies intact. Both General Dwight D. Eisenhower and General Ira C. Eaker, the Deputy Commander of the Army Air Force agreed. So on May 25, 1945, the Combined Chiefs of Staff, after extensive deliberation, issued to MacArthur, to Admiral Chester Nimitz, and to Army Air Force General "Hap" Arnold, the Top Secret directive to proceed with the invasion of Kyushu. The target date was set, for obvious reasons after the typhoon season, for November 1, 1945.

On July 24th, President Harry S. Truman approved the report of the Combined Chiefs of Staff, which called for the initiation of Operations "Olympic" and "Coronet." On July 26th, the United Nations issued the Potsdam Proclamation, which called upon Japan to surrender unconditionally or face "total destruction." Three days later, on July 29th, DOMEI, the Japanese governmental news agency, broadcast to the world that Japan would ignore the proclamation of Potsdam and would refuse to surrender.

During this same time period, the intelligence section of the Federal Communications Commission monitored internal Japanese radio broadcasts, which disclosed that Japan had closed all its schools to mobilize its school children---it was arming its civilian population and forming it into national civilian defense units, and that it was turning Japan into a nation of fortified caves and underground defenses in preparation for the expected invasion of their homeland.

"Operation Olympic", the invasion of Kyushu, would come first. Olympic called for a four-****ged assault from the sea on Kyushu. Its purpose was to seize and control the southern one-third of that island and to establish American naval and air bases there in order to effectively intensify the bombings of Japanese industry, to tighten the naval blockade of the home islands, to destroy units of the main Japanese army, and to support "Coronet", the scheduled invasion of the Tokyo Plain, that was to come the following March.

On October 27th, the preliminary invasion would begin with the 40th Infantry Division would land on a series of small islands to the west and southwest of Kyushu. At the same time, the 158th Regimental Combat Team would invade and occupy a small island 28 miles to the south of Kyushu. On these islands, seaplane bases would be established and radar would be set up to provide advance air warning for the invasion fleet, to serve as fighter direction centers for the carrier based aircraft and to provide advance air warning for the invasion fleet, should things not go well on the day of the invasion.

As the invasion grew imminent, the massive power of the United States Navy would approach Japan. The naval forces scheduled to take part in the actual invasion consisted of two awesome fleets---the Third and the Fifth.

The Third Fleet, under Admiral "Bull" Halsey, with its big guns and naval aircraft, would provide strategic support for the operation against Honshu and Hokkaido in order to impede the movement of Japanese reinforcements south to Kyushu. The third Fleet would be composed of a powerful group of battleships, heavy cruisers, destroyers, dozens of support ships, plus three fast carrier task groups. From these fast carriers, hundreds of Navy fighters, dive bombers and torpedo planes would hit targets all over the island of Honshu.

The Fifth Fleet, under Admiral Spruance, would carry our invasion troops. This Fleet would consist of almost 3,000 ships, including fast carriers and escort carrier task forces, a gunfire and covering force for bombardment and fire support, and a joint expeditionary force. This expeditionary force would include thousands of additional landing craft of all types and sizes.

Several days before the invasion, the battleships, heavy cruisers and destroyers would pour thousands of tons of high explosives into the target areas, and they would not cease the bombardment until after the landing forces had been launched.

During the early morning hours of November 1, 1945, the actual invasion would commence. Thousands of American soldiers and marines would pour ashore on beaches all along the eastern, southeastern, southern and western coasts of Kyushu.

The Eastern Assault Force, consisting of the 25th, 33rd and the 41st Infantry Divisions, would land near Miyaski, at beaches called Austin, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, and Cord (?) (Ford?) and move inland to attempt to capture this city and it's nearby airfield.

The Southern Force, consisting of the 1st Cavalry Division, the 43rd Division and American Division would land inside Ariake Bay at beaches labeled DeSoto, Dusenberg, Essex, Ford and Franklin and attempt to capture Shibushi and to capture, further inland, the city of Kanoya and its surround airfield.

On the western shore of Kyushu, at beaches Pontiac, Reo, Rolls Royce, Saxon, Star, Studebaker, Stutz, Winton and Zephyr, the V Amphibious Corps would land the 2nd, 3rd and 5th Marine Divisions, sending half of its force inland to Send and the other half to the port city of Kagoshima.

On November 4th, the reserve force, consisting of the 81st and 98th Infantry Division, and the 11th Airborne Division, after feigning an attack off the island of Shikoku would be landed, if not needed elsewhere, near Kaimondake, near the southern most tip of Kagoshima Bay, at beaches designated Locomobile, Lincoln, LaSalle, Hupmobile, Moon, Mercedes, Maxwell, Overland, Oldsmobile, Packard and Plymouth.

The objective of "Olympic" was to seize and control the island of Kyushy in order to use it for the launching platform for "Coronet", which was hoped to be a final knockout blow aimed at Tokyo and the Kanto Plain. "Olympic" was not just a plan for invasion, but for conquest and occupation as well. It was expected to take four months to achieve its objective, with three fresh American Divisions per month to be landed in support of that operation if needed. These additional troops were to be taken from the untis scheduled for "Coronet."

If all went well with "Olympic", on March 1, 1946, "Coronet" would be launched. "Coronet" would be twice the size of "Olympic", with as many as 28 American Divisions to be landed on Honshu, the main Japanese island.

On March 1, 1946, all along the coast east of Tokyo, the American 1st Army would land the 5th, 7th, 27, 44th, 86th and 96th Infantry divisions along with 1st, 4th, and 6th Marine Divisions

At Sagami Bay, just south of Tokyo, the entire 8th and 10th Armies would strike north and east to clear the long western shore of Tokyo Bay, and attempt to go as far as Yokohoma. The assault troops, landing to the south of Tokyo would be the 4th, 6th, 8th, 24th, 31st, 32nd, 37th, 38th, and 87th Infantry Divisions, along with the 13th and 20th Armored Divisions.

Following the initial assault, eight more Divisions---the 2nd, 28th, 35th, 91st, 97th and 104th Infantry Divisions and the 11th Airborne division--- would be landed. If additional troops were needed, as expected, other Divisions re-deployed from Europe and undergoing training in the United States would be shipped to Japan in what was hoped to be the final push.

The key to victory in Japan rested with the success of "Olympic" at Kyushu. Without the success of the Kyushu campaign, "Coronet" might never be launched. The key to victory in Kyushu rested with our firepower, much of which was to be delivered by carrier launched aircraft.

At the outset of the invasion of Kyushu, waves of Helldivers, Dauntless dive Bombers, Avengers, Corairs and Hellcats would take off to bomb, rocket and strafe enemy defenses, gun emplacements and troop concentrations along the beaches. In all, there would be 66 aircraft carriers loaded with 2,649 naval and marine aircraft to be used for close-in air support for the soldiers hitting the beaches.

These planes were also the fleet's primary protection against Japanese attack from the air. Had "Olympic" begun, these planes would be needed to provide an umbrella of protection for the soldiers and sailors of the invasion. Captured Japanese documents and post-war interrogation of Japanese military leaders disclose that our intelligence concerning the number of Japanese planes available for the defense of the home islands was dangerously in error.

In the last months of the war, our military leaders were deathly afraid of the Japanese "kamikaze" and with good cause. During Okinawa alone, Japanese aircraft sank 32 ships and damaged over 400 others. During the summer months, our top brass had concluded that the Japs had spent their air force , since American bombers and fighters flew unmolested over the shores of Japan on a daily basis.

What our military leaders did not know was that by the end of July, 1945, as part of the Japanese overall plan for the defense of their country, they had been saving all aircraft, fuel and pilots in reserve, and had been feverishly building new planes for the decisive battle for their homeland. The Japs had abandoned, for a time, their suicide attacks in order to preserved their pilots and planes to hurl at our invasion fleets.

The plan for the final defense of Japan was called "Ketsu-Go", and a large part of that plan called for the use of the Japanese Naval and Air Forces in defense. Japan had been divided into districts, and in each of these districts hidden airfields were being built and hangers and aircraft were being dispersed and camouflaged in great numbers. Units were being trained, deployed and given final instructions. Still other suicide units were being scattered throughout the islands of Kyushu and elsewhere, and held in reserve; and for the first time in the war, the Army and Navy Air Forces would be operating under one single unified command.

As part of the "Ketsu-Go", the Japanese were building 20 suicide take-off strips in southern Kyushu, with underground hangers for an all-out offensive. In Kyushu alone, the Japanese had 35 camouflaged airfield and 9 seaplane bases. As part of their overall plan, these seaplanes were to be used in suicide missions as well.

On the night before the invasion, 50 seaplane bombers, along with 100 former carrier aircraft and 50 land based army planes were to be launched in a direct suicide attack on the fleet.

The Japanese 5th Naval Air Fleet and the 6th Air Army had 58 more airfields on Korea, Western Honshu and Shikoku, which also were to be used for massive suicide attacks. Allied intelligence had established that the Japanese had no more than 2,500 aircraft of which they guessed only 300 would be deployed in suicide attacks. However, in August of 1945, unknown to our intelligence, the Japanese still had 5,651 Army and 7,074 Navy aircraft, for a total of 12,725 planes of all types. During July alone, 1, 131 new planes were built and almost 100 new underground aircraft plants were in various stages of construction.

Every village had some type of aircraft manufacturing activity. Hidden in mines, railway tunnels, under viaducts and in basements of department stores, work was being done to construct new planes.

Additionally, the Japanese were building newer and more effective models of the "Okka" which was a rocket propelled bomb, much like the German V-1, but piloted to its final destination by a suicide pilot. In March of 1945, the Japanese had ordered 750 of the earlier models of the "Okka" to be produced. These aircraft were to be launched from other aircraft. By the summer of 1945, the Japanese were building the newer models, which were to be catapulted out of caves in Kyushu to be used against the invasion ships which would be only minutes away.

At Okinawa, while almost 10,000 sailors died, as a result of kamikaze attacks, the kamikaze there had been relatively ineffective, primarily because of distance. Okinawa was located 350 miles from Kyushu and even experienced pilots flying from Japan became lost, ran out of fuel or did not have sufficient flying time to pick out a suitable target. Furthermore, early in the Okinawa campaign, the Americans had established a land based fighter command which, together with the carrier aircraft, provided an effective umbrella of protection against kamikaze attacks.

During "Olympic", the situation would be reversed. Kamikaze pilots would have little distance to travel, would have considerable staying time over the invasion fleet, and would have little difficulty picking out suitable targets. Conversely, the American land based aircraft would be able to provide only minimal protection against suicide attacks, since these American aircraft would have little flying time over Japan before they would be forced to return to their bases on Okinawa and elsewhere to refuel.

Also, different from Okinawa would be the Japanese choice of targets. At Okinawa aircraft carriers and destroyers were the principal targets of the kamikaze. the targets for the "Olympic" invasion were to be the transports carrying the American troops who were to participate in the landing. The Japanese concluded they could kill far more Americans by sinking one troop ship than they could by sinking 30 destroyers. their aim was to kill thousands of American troops at sea, thereby removing them from the actual landing. "Ketsu-Go" called for the destruction of 700 to 800 American ships.

When invasion became imminent, "Ketsu-Go" called for a four-fold aerial plan of attack. While American ships were approaching Japan, but still in the open seas, an initial force of 2,000 army and navy fighters were to fight to the death in order to control the skies over Kyusku. A second force of 330 specially trained navy combat pilots were to take off and attack the main body of the task force to keep it from using its fire support and air cover to adequately protect the troops carrying transports. While these two forces were engaged, a third force of 825 suicide planes was to hit the American transports in the open seas.

As the convoys approached their anchorage's, another 2,000 suicide planes were to be detailed in waves of 200 to 300, to be used in hour by hour attacks that would make Okinawa seem tame in comparison.

American troops would be arriving in approximately 180 lightly armed transports and 70 cargo vessels. Given the number of Japanese planes and the short distance to target, certainly a number of the troop carrying transports would have hit.

By mid-morning of the first day of the invasion, most of the American land based aircraft would be forced to return to their bases, leaving the defense against the suicide planes to the carrier pilots and the shipboard gunners. Initially, these pilots and gunners would have met with considerable success, but after the third, fourth and fifth waves of Japanese aircraft, a significant number of kamikaze most certainly would have broken through.

Carrier pilots crippled by fatigue would have to land time and time again to rearm and refuel. Navy fighters would break down from lack of needed maintenance. Guns would malfunction on both aircraft and combat vessels from the heat of continuous firing, and ammunition expended in such abundance would become scarce. Gun crews would be exhausted by nightfall, but still the waves of kamikazes would continue. With our fleet hovering off the beaches, all remaining Japanese aircraft would be committed to nonstop mass suicide attacks, which the Japanese hoped could be sustained for ten days.

The Japanese planned to coordinate their kamikaze and conventional air strikes with attacks from the 40 remaining conventional submarines from the Japanese Imperial Navy, beginning when the invasion fleet was 180 miles off Kyushu. As our invasion armada grew nearer, the rate of submarine attacks would increase. In addition to attacks by the remaining fleet submarines, some of which were to be armed with "Long Lance" torpedoes with a range of 20 mines, the Japanese had more frightening plans for death from the sea.

By the end of the war, the Imperial Japanese Navy still had 23 destroyers and two cruisers which were operational. These ships were to be used to counterattack the American invasion and a number of the destroyers were to be beached along the invasion beaches at the last minute to be used as anti-invasion gun platforms.

As early as 1944, Japan had established a special naval attack unit, which was the counterpart of the special attack units of the air, to be used in the defense of the homeland. These units were to be saved for the invasion and would make widespread use of midget submarines, human torpedoes and exploding motorboats against the Americans.

Once offshore, the invasion fleet would be forced to defend not only against the suicide attacks from the air, but would also be confronted with suicide attacks from the sea.

Attempting to sink our troop carrying transports would be almost 300 Kairyu suicide submarines. these two-man subs carried a 1,320 pound bomb in their nose and were to be used in close-in ramming attacks. By the end of the war, the Japanese had 215 Kairyu available with 207 more under construction.

With a crew of five, the Japanese Koruy suicide submarine, carrying an even larger explosive charge, was also to be used against the American vessels. by August, the Japanese had 115 Koryu completed, with 496 under construction.

Especially feared by our Navy were the Kaitens, which were difficult to detect, and which were to be used against our invasion fleet just off the beaches. These Kaitens were human torpedoes over 60 feet long, each carried a warhead of over 3,500 pounds and each was capable of sinking the largest of American naval vessels. The Japanese had 120 shore-based Kaitens, 78 of which were in the Kyushu area as early as August.

Finally, the Japanese had almost 4,000 Navy Shinyo and Army Liaison motor boats, which were also armed with high explosive warheads, and which were to be used in night time attacks against our troop carrying ships.

The principal goal of the special attack units of the air and of the sea was to shatter the invasion before the landing. By killing the combat troops aboard ships and sinking the attack transports and cargo vessels, the Japanese were convinced the Americans would back off or become so demoralized that they would then accept a less than unconditional surrender and a more honorable and face-saving end for the Japanese.

In addition to destroying as many of the larger American ships as possible, "Ketsu-Go" also called for the annihilation of the smaller offshore landing craft carrying our G.I.'s to the invasion beaches.

The Japanese had devised a network of beach defenses, consisting of electronically detonated mines farthest offshore, three lines of suicide divers, followed by magnetic mines and still other mines planted all over the beaches themselves.

A fanatical part of the last line of maritime defense was the Japanese suicide frogmen, called "Fukuryu." These "crouching dragons", were divers armed with lunge mines, each capable of sinking a landing craft up to 950 tons. There divers, numbering in the thousands, could stay submerged for up to ten hours, and were to thrust their explosive charges into the bottom of landing craft and, in effect, serve as human mines.

As horrible as the defense of Japan would be off the beaches, it would be on Japanese soil that the American armed forces would face the most rugged and fanatical defense that had ever been encountered in any of the theaters during the entire war.

Throughout the island-hopping Pacific campaign, our troops had always outnumbered the Japanese by two and sometimes three to one. In Japan it would be different. by virtue of a combination of cunning , guesswork and brilliant military reasoning, a number of Japan's top military leaders were able to astutely deuce, not only when, but where, the United States would land their first invasion forces. The Japanese positioned their troops accordingly.

Facing the 14 American Divisions landing at Kyushu would be 14 Japanese Divisions, 7 independent mixed brigades, 3 tank brigades and thousands of specially trained Naval Landing forces. On Kyushu the odds would be three to two in favor of the Japanese, with 790,000 enemy defenders against 550,000 Americans. This time the bulk of the Japanese defenders would not be the poorly trained and ill-equipped labor battalions that the Americans had faced in the earlier campaigns. The Japanese defenders would be the hard-core of the Japanese Home Army. These troops were well fed and well equipped and were linked together all over Kyushu by instantaneous communications. They were familiar with the terrain, had stockpiles of arms and ammunition, and had developed an effective system of transportation and re-supply almost invisible from the air. Many of these Japanese troops were the elite of the Japanese army, and they were swollen with a fanatical fighting spirit that convinced them that they could defeat these American invaders that had come to defile their homeland.

Coming ashore, the American Eastern amphibious assault forces at Miyazaki would face the Japanese 154th Division which straddled the city, the Japanese 212th Division on the coast immediately to the north, and the 156th Division on the coast immediately to the south. Also in place and prepared to launch a counter-attack against our Eastern force were the Japanese 25th and 77th Divisions.

Awaiting the Southeastern attack force at Ariake Bay was the entire Japanese 86th Division, and at least one independent mixed infantry brigade.

On the western shores of Kyushu, the Marines would face the most brutal opposition. Along the invasion beaches would be the 146th, 206th and 303rd Japanese Divisions, along with the 6th Tank Brigade, the 125th Mixed Infantry Brigade and the 4th Artillery Command. Additionally, components of the 25th and 77th Divisions would also be poised to launch counterattacks.

If not needed to reinforce the primary landing beaches, the American Reserve Force would be landed at the base of Kagoshima Bay on November 4th, where they would be immediately confronted by two mixed infantry brigades, parts of two infantry divisions and thousands of the naval landing forces who had undergone combat training to support ground troops in defense.

All along the invasion beaches, our troops would face coastal batteries, anti-landing obstacles, and an elaborate network of heavily fortified pillboxes, bunkers, strong points and underground fortresses.

As our soldiers waded ashore, they would do so through intense artillery and mortar fire from pre-registered batteries as they worked their way through tetrahedral and barbed wired entanglements so arranged to funnel them into the muzzle of these Japanese guns.

On the beaches and beyond would be hundreds of Japanese machine gun positions, beach mines, ****y traps, trip-wire mines, and sniper units. Suicide units concealed in spider holes would meet the troops as they passed nearby. Just past the beaches and the sea walls would be hundreds of barricades, trail blocks and concealed strong points.

In the heat of battle, Japanese special infiltration units would be sent to reap havoc in the American lines by cutting phone and communication lines, and by indiscriminately firing at our troops attempting to establish a beachhead. some of the troops would be in American uniform to confuse our troops and English speaking Japanese officers were assigned to break in on American radio traffic to call off American artillery fire, to order retreats and to further confuse our troops.

Still other infiltrators with demolition charges strapped on their chests or backs would attempt to blow up American tanks, artillery pieces and ammunition stores as they were unloaded ashore.

Beyond the beaches were large artillery pieces situated at key points to bring down a devastating curtain of fire on the avenues of approach along the beach. Some of these large guns were mounted on railroad tracks running in and out of caves where they were protected by concrete and steel.

The battle for Japan, itself, would be won by what General Simon Bolivar Buckner had called on Okinawa "Prairie Dog Warfare." this type of fighting was almost unknown to the ground troops in Europe and the Mediterranean. It was peculiar only to the American soldiers and marines whose responsibility it had been to fight and destroy the Japanese on islands all over the south and central Pacific. "Prairie Dog Warfare" had been the story of Tarawa, of Saipan, of Iwo Jima and Okinawa. "Prairie Dog Warfare" was a battle for yards, feet and sometimes even inches. It was a brutal, deadly and dangerous form of combat aimed at an underground, heavily fortified, non-retreating enemy. "Prairie Dog Warfare" would be what the invasion of Japan was all about.

In the mountains behind the beaches were elaborate underground networks of caves, bunkers, command posts and hospitals connected by miles of tunnels with dozens of separate entrances and exits. Some of these complexes could hold up to 1,000 enemy troops.

A number of these caves were equipped with large steel doors that slid open to allow artillery fire and then would snap shut again.

The paths leading up to these underground fortresses were honeycombed with defensive positions, and all but a few of the trails would be ****y-trapped. along these manned defensive positions would be machine gun nests and aircraft and naval guns converted for anti-invasion fire.

In addition to the use of poison gas and bacteriological warfare (which the Japanese had experimented with), the most frightening of all was the prospect of meeting an entire civilian population that had been mobilized to meet our troops on the beaches.

Had "Olympic" come about, the Japanese civilian population inflamed by a national slogan. "One Hundred Million will die for the Emperor and Nation", was prepared to engage and fight the American invaders to the death.

Twenty-eight million Japanese had become a part of the "National Volunteer Combat Force" and had undergone training in the techniques of beach defense and guerrilla warfare. These civilians were armed with ancient rifles, lunge mines, satchel charges, Molotov cocktails and one-shot black powder mortars. Still others were armed with swords, long bows, axes and bamboo spears.

These special civilian units were to be tactically employed in nighttime attacks, hit and run maneuvers, delaying actions and massive suicide charges at the weaker American positions.

Even without the utilization of Japanese civilians in direct combat, the Japanese and American casualties during the campaign for Kyushu would have been staggering. At the early stage of the invasion, 1,000 Japanese and American soldiers would be dying every hour. The long and difficult task of conquering Kyushu would have made casualties on both sides enormous and one can only guess at how monumental the casualty figures would have been had the Americans had to repeat their invasion a second time when they landed at heavily fortified and defended Tokyo Plain the following March.

The invasion of Japan never became a reality because on August 6, 1945, the entire nature of war changed when the first atomic bomb was exploded over Hiroshima. On August 9, 1945, a second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, and within days the war with Japan was at a close.

Had these bombs not been dropped and had the invasion been launched as scheduled, it is hard not to speculate as to the cost. Thousands of Japanese suicide sailors and airmen would have died in fiery deaths in the defense of their homeland. Thousands of American sailors and airmen defending against these attacks would also have been killed with many more wounded.

On the Japanese home islands, the combat casualties would have been at a minimum in the tens of thousands. Every foot of Japanese soil would have been paid for, twice over, by both Japanese and American lives.

One can only guess at how many civilians would have committed suicide in their homes or in futile mass military attacks.

In retrospect, the one million American men who were to be the casualties of the invasion, were instead lucky enough to survive the war, safe and unharmed.

Intelligence studies and realistic military estimates made over forty years ago, and not latter day speculation, show quite clearly that the battle for Japan might well have resulted in the biggest blood bath in the history of modern warfare.

At best, the invasion of Japan would have resulted in a long and bloody siege. At worst, it could have been a battle of extermination between two different civilizations.

Far worse would be what might have happened to Japan as a nation and as a culture. When the invasion came, it would have come after several additional months of the continued fire-bombings on all of the remaining Japanese cities and population centers. The cost in human life that resulted from the two atomic blasts would be small in comparison to the total number of Japanese lives that would have been lost by this continued aerial devastation.

If the invasion had come in the fall of 1945, with the American forces locked in combat in the south of Japan, who or what could have prevented the Red Army from marching into the northern half of the Japanese home islands. If "Downfall" had been an operational necessity, the existence of a separate North and South Japan might be a modern-day reality. Japan today could be divided down its middle much like Korea and German. The world was spared the cost of "Downfall" however, because on September 2, 1945, Japan formally surrendered to the United Nations and World War II was finally over.

Almost immediately, American soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines in for the duration were now discharged. The aircraft carriers, cruisers, transport ships and LST's scheduled to carry our invasion troops to Japan, now ferried home American troops in a gigantic troop-lift called "Magic Carpet."

The soldiers and marines who had been committed to invade Japan were now returned home where they were welcomed back to American shores. All over America celebrations were held and families everywhere gathered in thanksgiving to honor these soldiers who had been miraculously spared from further combat and were now safely returning home.

In the fall of 1945, with the war now over, few Americans would ever learn of the elaborate top-secret plans that had been prepared in detail for the invasion of Japan. Those few military leaders who had known the details of "Operation Downfall" were now preoccupied with demobilization and other postwar matters, and were no longer concerned with this invasion that never came.

In the fall of 1945, in the aftermath of the two thermonuclear explosions that triggered the Japanese surrender, and with the war a fading memory, few people concerned themselves with the invasion plans for Japan that had been rendered obsolete by the atomic age. Following the surrender, the classified documents, maps, diagrams and appendices for "Operation Downfall" were packed away in boxes where they began their long circuitous route to the National Archives where they still remain.

But even now more that forty years later, these plans that called for the invasion of Japan paint a vivid description of what might have been one of the most horrible campaigns in the history of modern man. The fact that "Operation downfall", the story of the invasion of Japan, is locked up in our Nations Archives and is not reflected in our history books is something for which all Americans can be thankful.


Post Script


With the capture of Okinawa during the summer of 1945 the Americans in the Pacific had finally obtained what the allies in Europe had enjoyed all along---a large island capable of being used as a launching platform for invasion. Following the cessation of hostilities with German, millions of American soldiers, sailors and airmen were being re-deployed to the Pacific for the anticipated invasion of Japan. The center of this immense military buildup and the primary staging area for the invasion was the island of Okinawa.

American military planners knew that the invasion of Japan would be a difficult military undertaking. Japan had never been successfully invaded in its history.

Six and on-half centuries before, an invasion similar to the planned American invasion had been attempted and failed. That invasion had striking similarities to the one being planned by the Americans that summer of 1945.

In the year 1281 AD two magnificent Chinese fleets set sail for the Empire of Japan. Their purpose was to launch a massive invasion on the Japanese home islands and to conquer Japan in the name of the Great Mongol Emperor, Kublai Khan.

Sailing from China was the main armada, consisting of 3,500 ships and over 100,000 heavily armed troops. Sailing from ports in Korea was a second impressive fleet of 900 ships, containing 42,000 Mongol warriors.

In the summer of that year, the invasion force sailing from Korea arrived off the western shores of the southernmost Japanese island of Kyushu. The Mongols maneuvered their ships into position and methodically launched their assault on the Japanese coast. Like human surf, wave after wave of these oriental soldiers swept ashore at Hagata Bay, where they were met on the beaches by thousands of Japanese defenders who had never had their homeland successfully invaded.

The Mongol invasion force was a modern army, and its arsenal of weapons was far superior to that of the Japanese. Its soldiers were equipped with poisoned arrows, maces, iron swords, metal javelins and even gunpowder. The Japanese were forced to defend themselves with bow and arrows, swords, spears made from bamboo and shields made only of wood.

The battle was fierce with many solders killed or wounded on both sides. It raged on for days, but aided by the fortifications along their beaches of which the Mongols had no advance knowledge; and inspired by the sacred cause of the defense of their homeland, these ancient Japanese warriors pushed the much stronger Mongol invaders off the beaches and back into their ships lying at anchor in the Bay.

This Mongol fleet then set back out to sea, where it rendezvoused with the main body of its army, which was arriving with the second fleet coming from China.

During the summer of 1281, this combined force of foreign invaders maneuvered off shore in preparation for the main assault on the western shores of Kyushu.

All over Japan elaborate Shinto ceremonies were performed at shrines, in the cities, and in the countryside. Hundreds of thousands of Japanese urged on by their Emperor, their warlords, and other officials prayed to their Shinto gods for deliverance from these foreign invaders. A million Japanese voices called upward for divine intervention.

Miraculously, as if in answer to their prayers, from out of the south a savage typhoon sprang up and headed toward Kyushu. Its powerful winds screamed up the coast where they struck the Mongol's invasion fleet with full fury, wreaking havoc on the ships and on the men onboard. The Mongol fleet was devastated. After the typhoon had passed, over 4,000 invasion craft had been lost and the Mongol casualties exceeded 100,000 men.

All over Japan religious services and huge celebrations were held. Everywhere tumultuous crowds gathered in thanksgiving to pay homage to the "divine wind" that had saved their homeland from foreign invasion. At no time thereafter has Japan ever been successfully invaded. The Japanese fervently believed that it was this "divine wind" that would forever protect them.

During the summer of 1945 another powerful armada was being assembled to assault the same western coastline on the island of Kyushu, where six and one-half centuries earlier the Mongols had been repelled.

The American invasion plans for Kyushu, scheduled for November 1, 1945 called for a floating invasion force of 14 army and marine divisions to be transported by ship to hit the western, eastern and southern shoreline of Kyushu. This shipboard invasion forced would consist of 550,000 combat soldiers, tens of thousands of sailors and hundreds of naval aviators.

The assault fleet would consist of thousands of ships of every shape, size and description, ranging from the mammoth battleships and aircraft carriers to the small amphibious craft, and they would be sailing from Okinawa, the Philippines and the Marianas.

Crucial to the success of the invasion were nearly 4,000 army, navy, and marine aircraft that would be packed into the small island of Okinawa to be used for direct air support of our landing forces at the time of this invasion.

By July of 1945, the Japanese knew the Americans were planning to invade their homeland. Throughout the early summer, the Emperor and his government officials exhorted the military and civilian population to make preparations for the invasion.

Japanese radios throughout that summer cried out to the people to "form a wall of human flesh" and when the invasion began, to push the invaders back into the sea, and back onto their ships.

The Japanese people fervently believed that the American invaders would be repelled. They all seemed to share a mystical faith that their country could never be invaded successfully and that they, again, would be saved by the "divine wind".

The American invasion never came, however, because the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as if by a miracle, ended the war.

Almost immediately American soldiers, sailors, and airmen, in for the duration, were being discharged and sent home. By the fall of 1945, there remained approximately 200,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen still on Okinawa. Okinawa, which would have been the major launching platform for the invasion of Japan, was now peaceful.

In October, Buckner Bay, on the east coast of the island, was still jammed with vessels of all kinds---from Victory ships to landing craft. On the island itself, 150,000 soldiers lived under miles of canvas, in what were referred to as "Tent Cities." All over the island, hundreds of tons of food, equipment and supplies stacked in immense piles lay out in the open.

During the early part of October, to the southwest of Okinawa just northeast of the Marianas, the seas were growing restless and the winds began to blow. The ocean skies slowly turned black and the large swells that were developing began to turn the Pacific Ocean white with froth. In a matter of only a few days, a gigantic typhoon had somehow, out of season, sprung to life and began sweeping past Saipan and into the Philippine Sea. As the storm grew more violent, it raced northward and kicked up waves 60 feet high.

Navy Meteorologists eventually became aware of the storm, but they expected it to pass well between Formosa and Okinawa, and to disappear into the East China Sea.

Unexplainable, on the evening of October 8th, the storm changed direction and abruptly veered to the east. When it did so, there was insufficient warning to allow the ships in the harbor to get under way in order to escape the typhoon's terrible violence. By late morning on the 9th, rain was coming down in torrents, the seas were rising and visibility was zero. Winds, now over 80 miles per hour blowing from the east and northeast, caused small crafts in Buckner Bay to drag their anchors.

By early afternoon, the wind had risen to over 100 miles per hour, the rain coming in horizontally now was more salt than fresh, and even the larger vessels began dragging anchor under the pounding of 50 foot seas.

As the winds continued to increase and the storm unleashed its fury, the entire Bay became a scene of devastation. Ships dragging their anchors collided with one another; hundreds of vessels were blown ashore. Vessels in groups of two's and three's were washed ashore into masses of wreckage that began to accumulate on the beaches.

Numerous ships had to be abandoned, while their crews were precariously transferred between ships.

By mid-afternoon, the typhoon had reached its raging peak with winds, now coming from the north and the northeast, blowing up to 150 miles per hour. Ships initially grounded by the storm were now blown off the reefs and back across the bay to the south shore, dragging their anchors the entire way. More collisions occurred between wind-blown ships and shattered hulks.

Gigantic waves swamped small vessels and engulfed larger ones. Liberty ships lost their propellers, while men in transports, destroyers and Victory ships were swept off the decks by 60 foot waves that reached the tops of the masts of their vessels.

On shore, the typhoon was devastating the island. Twenty hours of torrential rain washed out roads and ruined the island's stores of rations and supplies. Aircraft was picked up and catapulted off the airfields; huge Quonset huts were sailing into the air, metal hangars were ripped to shreds and the "Tent Cities", housing 150,000 troops on the island, ceased to exist.

Almost the entire food supply on the island was blown away. Americans on the island had nowhere to go, but into the caves, trenches and ditches of the island in order to survive. All over the island there were tents, boards and sections of galvanized iron being hurled through the air at over 100 mph.

The storm raged over the island for hours, and then slowly headed out to sea; then it doubled back, and two days later howled in from the ocean to hit the island again. On the following day, when the typhoon had finally past, dazed men crawled out of holes and caves to count the losses.

Countless aircraft had been destroyed, all power was gone, communications and supplies were nonexistent. B-29's were requisitioned to rush in tons of rations and supplies from the Marianas. General Joseph Stillwell, the 10th Army Commander, asked for immediate plans to evacuate all hospital cases from the island. The harbor facilities were useless.

After the typhoon roared out into the Sea of Japan and started to die its slow death, the bodies began to wash ashore. The toll on ships was staggering. Almost 270 ships were sunk, grounded or damaged beyond repair. Fifty-Three ships in too bad a state to be restored to duty were decommissioned, stripped and abandoned. Out of 90 ships which needed major repair, the Navy decided only 10 were even worthy of complete salvage, and so the remaining 80 were scrapped.

According to Samuel Eliot Morrison, the famous Naval historian, "Typhoon Louise" was the most furious and lethal storm ever encountered by the United States Navy in its entire history. Hundreds of Americans were killed, injured and missing, ships were sunk and the island of Okinawa was in havoc.

News accounts at the time disclose that the press and the public back home paid little attention to this storm that struck the Pacific with such force. The very existence of this storm is still a little-known fact.

Surprisingly, few people then, or even now, have made the connection that an American invasion fleet of thousands of ships, planes and landing craft, and a half million men might well have been in that exact place at that exact time, poised to strike Japan, when this typhoon enveloped Okinawa and its surrounding seas.

In the aftermath of this storm, with the war now history, few people concerned themselves with the obsolete invasion plans for Japan.

However, had there been no bomb dropped or had it been simply delayed for only a matter of months, history might well have repeated itself. In the fall of 1945, in the aftermath of this typhoon, had things been different, all over Japan religious services and huge celebrations would have been held. A million Japanese voices would have been raised upward in thanksgiving. Everywhere tumultuous crowds would have gathered in delirious gratitude to pay homage to a "divine wind" which might have once again protected their country from foreign invaders, a "divine wind" they had names, centuries before, the "Kamikaze."

Regards,
Hist2004

[Whisper_44]

I guess there is no limit to the amount of text that one user can post, thank goodness, that was a very interesting read..

what a great way to kill 20 minutes of work time. ;)


thanks hist2004

[Khabbi]

"Ninja" units did exist during the the feudal period of japan . The were pretty much like a SWAT team , In the sence that they were regular samurai that also did "ninja" work . They were the Special Ops of that time. Hollywood has pretty much messed up everything about the real "ninjas" , always showing them as a poor farmboy turned into a secret cult of ninjas in black , killing ppl in their sleep.

Ninjas did spy work , ambushes and assasinations and regular samurai stuff , but its far from the hollywood thing.

Bushido wasent "invented" befor the Edo period , which was a peacefull time with almost no wars , Samurais got laid off and Japan changed quick.

The whole Samurai thing ended in the 1800 , and with that the Ninja.

[DarkAngel]

Wow, i never knew a kamikaze actually hit the Yanks!
Looks like any sea-borne invasion oif Japan really gets screwed by Mother Nature :lol:

Great post hist!
Thanks.

[MaDuce]

Yes there was accounts from Marines of japanese soldiers shooting balls of chi energy at them...Seriously they where trained in martial arts and officer carried katanas but they wwhere hardly ninjas.

[duck]

The jungle assault on Singapore was thought to be an impossible task for any human. Maybe the Japanese troops hugged a lot of trees on the way for their Ki Energy... ;)

[ronin2172]

as usual hist 2004 is thorough and accurate (damn him!lol),there are several reasons y there were no japanese "ninja" type units.

One is that there is no accurate historical record detailing their methodology or training. The japanese of that time believed the ninja could fly and were magicians!

Another reason goes back to Bushido, and the fact the japanese idolized the samurai.

The ninja (or shinobi) due to their underhanded (in the eyes of the samurai anyway) methods and secrecy stood in stark contrast to Bushido and the Samurai, so they were despised (in public), also the ninja descended from the lower classes (mainly peasants), this is also a great source of disdain in the class oriented society of fudeal Japan, where the samurai was the pinnacle.

Also the Ninja were mercenaries, who expected to be well paid for their services, another major no-no for the samurai. The samurai who were the dominant class pretty much marginalised the abilities of the ninja and other classes of warriors in Japan. (How many of u know that the samurai were not even the best warriors in Japan? That was reserved for the warrior monks aka the sohei. They, especially the ones in Nara and Kyoto had private armies that no samurai would dare attack!). As a result the ninja were often portrayed as evil, greedy, cowards by the samurai (hardly an ideal for which the japanese military to base elite troops on).

However the ninja proved indispensible in the many campaigns during the fuedal period in Japan. The daimyos (warlords) would use them if they wanted plausible deniability, to save their samurai's 'honor' (no samurai would lower himself to covert warfare!) and the plain fact that the ninja were the best at the job. The ninja was brave (even the bravest samurai would hesitate to go where ninjas operated and the conditions they operated in) and highly skilled.

Besides assasination jobs, they undertook recon missions, conducted gurellia warfare, spying (sounds not too dissimilar from modern day spec ops!lol). the ninjas were in fact routinely used to end sieges with as little blood shed as possible (they would infiltrate the fort and simply open the gates!). However in the mid 1600's a campaign was waged which effectivly wiped the ninja's out, never again were they to play a major role in Japan.

[Delta Niner]

Thank you very much to those who have taken the effort to reply, specially to Hist2004. Man you probably made your history teacher proud or are you a history professor yourself? Thank You again to everyone and more power to you guys

[Aussie E]

During the period before the war and during the war the Japanese government did use the Japanese underworld to loot and push drugs on the occupied territories. These were not Ninjas but they did preform assassinations and intelligence gathering missions.
Hist2004 if you haven't read Gold Warriors by Sterlin I reccomend it highly, addicting and hard to put down.

[hist2004]

Thank you very much to those who have taken the effort to reply, specially to Hist2004. Man you probably made your history teacher proud or are you a history professor yourself? Thank You again to everyone and more power to you guys

Thanks to everyone, I’m not a history professor; it was my minor in college.
I’m an amateur compared to some people out there. Forum members like
16 Obr SpN and others have contributed greatly to the discussion.

Regards,
Hist2004

[ronin2172]

not to step on anybody's toes but i have to say that khabbi is inaccurate; bushido was not invented during or after the edo period of japan (edo refelecting the time the capital moved to Edo; better known as Tokyo) This would mean it was invented during the last shogunate dynasty before the meji restoration, which was from the 15th to the mid 19th century (1600 - 1850 more or less), i don't think so.

Bushido, literally translated "Way of the Warrior," developed in Japan between the Heian and Tokugawa Ages (9th-12th century). That would be the 1000's-1300's. This date places the "invention" of bushido firmly in the age of wars.

Now Bushido was made the basis of ethical training for the whole society in the mid 1800's (now that happened during the edo period). This was done to ensure the populations total loyalty to the Emperor and not the fuedal lord(daimyo), as was the case during the fudeal period.

So sorry but ninja were not samurai! Their ways completely stood against the beliefs of samurai. No samurai would break his warrior code to participate in assasination, or be paid to spy, they regarded that with utter contempt!. Spies and assasins were always non-samurai. For if a samurai was caught spying or caught in the act of assasination he would disgrace his Lord and no Samurai would do that! And it would be a relative easy way to find out who sent the assasin!

The ninja did descend from lower classes, read the book Ninja AD 1460 -1650 by Dr. Stephen Turnbull, available from Osprey publishing.

The only way u could say that samurai were ninja is the popular misbelief that Minamoto Yohitsune and Kusunoki Masashige (both of whom were samurai) were ninja and have been credited in popular works with creating their own schools of ninjitsu, this has no basis in fact whatsoever. Or maybe u watched Lone wolf and Cub a few times too many! (mind u i like Lone Wolf and Cub!)

Now ninjas were peasants and peasants worked the land, so that would make them farmers (not poor, as they had a whole other occupation to make money!), and a lot of myths grew out about the ninja, (including them being evil, and magicians, so on and so forth).

U can't fault hollywood too much when Japanese popular culture doesn't really know either!

And to say the Samurai thing ended is also false, they ceased to be the dominant force in japanese society and culture, but they did not fade away completely. (Tell that to the practitioners of the sword and those that learn and teach archery from horseback to this day in Japan. These just happen to be samurai specific techniques). So if vestiges of the samurai exist who is to say ninjas in some shape or form don't exist either?

[Khabbi]

Well im sorry to say that you are wrong =)

Bushido was "invented" to keep the unemployed samurai under controle during the edo period because there was no wars (scimishes doesent count ) alot of samurai were getting unemployed and doing bad stuff , so to keep them in check they made the bushido to strengthen valules and keep them in check

Befor that there was no bushido but there were other "laws" . Another respon for the bushido was to keep samurais from backstabbing their masters , so no more wars were gonna start

The Emperor of japan officaly ended the samurai thing , he actualy said , no more samurai , there was even uprising by the samurai , but the samurai lost . Just becuase you go out and shoot with a bow and swing a sword doesent mean you are a samurai , I myself do Kendo , Iaido and Kyudo , that doesent mean im a samurai .

I dont feel like backing up all my facts with dates , but SHingen was a very highly ranked samurai and a "ninja" .


check your facts befor u say im wrong son , =)

Never trust hollywood , GI JANE , THE LAST SAMURAI , and alot of othger movies have proved that trusting hollywood is wrong ,

[ronin2172]

u need to check your facts son, who said anything about getting my facts from the last samurai? (every body knows that americans were not brought in to teach the japanese warfare and everybody knows that the samurai were actually the "bad" guys in the situation, now khabbi tell me the name of the rebellion that the movie was based on, tell me the name of the fugure Ken Wattanabe's character was based on?)

U don't feel like backing up all your facts with dates (hell u haven't stated ANY facts).....that's your rebuttal? Sounds like u have no facts at all, this is a forum for discussion on history, yet u provide no evidence for your "statements of fact" hmmmm, interesting.

"but SHingen was a very highly ranked samurai and a "ninja" ."

Shingen!LOL the only, prominent Shingen in japanese history was Takeda Shingen; A Daimyo, wow next u r gonna be saying President Bush was/is a Navy SEAL.

U need to read before u start dropping names. . Here i'll use his full name. TAKEDA SHINGEN, Lord of Kai (1521 - 1573)

I have a list of all the prominent Samurai in Japanese history and this is the only Shingen i found (and just to be curious who was his main rival?)

Now if u woulda said Hattori Hanzo instead of Shingen, then u would have a valid arguement, but u didn't, u said Shingen (hell u didn't even use a full name! Hell u only used his first name! C'mon do better)

Hattori Hanzo was a retainer for the Tokugawa (which would most likely make him a samurai). He definitly had ties to the ninja but he himself was not a ninja, He was a shonin (village headman), below him where the chujin these were the men who went about making the arrangements for hiring ninja as mercenaries, the final level were the genin, these were the men who actually undertook the misions, these men (or women) are what we commonly refer to as ninja. This supports my statement that the Samurai would hire the ninja on a regular basis (some were even on the payroll), but they did not act as ninja, There is no basis for them acting as ninja in the historical record . They would have tolerated ninja in their areas, and why not, as they were a useful comodity.

Bushido was "invented" to keep the unemployed samurai under controle during the edo period because there was no wars (scimishes doesent count ) alot of samurai were getting unemployed and doing bad stuff , so to keep them in check they made the bushido to strengthen valules and keep them in check

Samurai who had lost their masters (through death, end of line, confiscation of lands, etc) had were made ronin, these men had three options, become monks, bandits, or find service with another master. This was happening long before the edo period so your statement that this was only happening during the edo period and thereby making the law necessary to control that BS.

You are right in saying that bushido was based on the Daimyo house laws (but then again u didn't say that, because that would mean that the Samurai had laws to which they were obedient to previous to the edo period, which u implied they didn't), but again that supports my statement that in the 1800's bushido was made the basis for the whole society (merchants, landowners, farmers, craftsman, whores, in other words everyone) to ensure the poulation's loyalty to the Emperor and not the local Daimyo, in whom's domain that person might reside. That was the whole point of the Meji Restoration, the emperor regaining power (in the many centuries before the Emperor was basically a puppet, not unlike the queen of england is now. Royalty, yes but no political power), or did u miss the whole point of that period?

Just to prove my point that the Samurai were never lawless I will include a portion of the Daimyo house code for Imagawa Ujichika (source the Imagawa Kana Mokuroku 1526):

In dealing with those who have quarreled, both parties should be sentenced to death, irrespective of who is in the right or in the wrong. In cases where one party to the dispute, although provoked and attacked, controls himself, makes no defense and, as a result, is wounded his appeal should be granted. While it is reprehensible that he should have been a party to the dispute and perhaps contributed to its outbreak, his respect for the law in not returning the attack merits consideration. However, in cases where warriors come to the aid of one or other parties to a dispute and then claim to be an injured party, their claims shall not be entertained, even if they should be wounded or killed.

Now if the repercussions were so harsh for those who quarreled, how bad do u think it would be for those who advocated treachery? The retainers were hardly backstabers as u so incorrectly stated:

Another respon for the bushido was to keep samurais from backstabbing their masters , so no more wars were gonna start

Another one of your facts i suppose.

Just becuase you go out and shoot with a bow and swing a sword doesent mean you are a samurai , I myself do Kendo , Iaido and Kyudo , that doesent mean im a samurai .

I never said there were samurai still around. I said:

And to say the Samurai thing ended is also false, they ceased to be the dominant force in japanese society and culture, but they did not fade away completely. (Tell that to the practitioners of the sword and those that learn and teach archery from horseback to this day in Japan. These just happen to be samurai specific techniques). So if vestiges* of the samurai exist who is to say ninjas in some shape or form don't exist either?

*Main Entry: ves·tige
****unciation: 'ves-tij
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Latin vestigium footstep, footprint, track, vestige
1 a (1) : a trace, mark, or visible sign left by something (as an ancient city or a condition or practice) vanished or lost (2) : the smallest quantity or trace


Since u r the expert and i know nothing at all, tell me about the siege at Shimabara and what role did the ninja play in it? (and what was signifigant about the seige?). Ok i'll give u an easy one what were the two areas famous for producing ninja?

Word to the wise before u start calling people wrong, at least have athouritative statements that backs up your claim Especially when someone calls u on it ("Ninjas did spy work , ambushes and assasinations and regular samurai stuff", is hardly athurotative, and is this one of the "facts" u claim to have made?). i have been wrong before and i'm sure i'll be wrong again, and i freely admit it when i am presented with valid information showing my error. U haven't provided anything remotely valid!

I have already stated where i get my info from in my previous post (My source only recieved his doctorate from Leeds University and has written a multitude of works on Japan, ranging from the Samurai to christianity (his thesis actually) in Japan, and has recieved multiple awards for his work, some even from japan!). If you would like a list of his works go here and check it out.... http://freespace.virgin.net/stephen.turnbull/publications.htm

So the questuion begs...where do u get yours?

[Marmot1]

hist2004... this text about invasion of Japan was best piece of reading since last december... and I read a lot... so GREAT THANKS

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Khabbi]

Well , I always make mistakes , and I dont mind , because I usualy learn from the guys pointing out my mistakes , I shouldent have said shingen when I ment Hattori Hanzo , When I tryed to think of Hanzo the name shingen came up and I made a mistake .

Hattori Hanzo was a hatamoto and had close ties to Ninja , in fact everything ive heard he was a ninja . which makes the ninja = samurai thing correct

your other questions: Satsuma Rebellion was led by Saigo Takamori. I dident say you got your info from hollywood and the last samurai , I said u cant trust hollywood , ever .

I dident say that befor the Edo period and the Bushido everybody was lawless and that japan was some kind of anarchy kind of place , they had laws and codes , but they werent the actual bushido . Yamaga Soko has a big part in "making " of the bushido.

I feel we got of to a bad start , you seem to be on top of things and done alot of leg work , I dont like to do leg work thats why I dont like backing stuff up with dates . So anywho , I hope we can keep talking about this subject and keep it on a friendly level , Its a damn fun subject and Id like to keep talking / debating about it . Hope I dident leave anything out .

[ronin2172]

No problem, u r right we did get off to a bad start, i don't mind debate especially when both of us can learn from each other.

If I came over as hostile , my bad, i hope we can continue sharing viewpoints on this topic as it is so interesting (as u so rightly stated)!

the fact that u were able to answer my questions on the last samurai proves (for me at least) that u have knowledge on the topic.

Mistakes are no biggie we all make 'em (I have made a ton of them!).

Everything i have read (so far) about Hanzo didn't indicate that he took part in any "ninja" missions, any information u would have on his activities, would be appreciated.

any questions u might have or theories u have developed run them by me i would love to hear them!

[Delta Niner]

No problem, u r right we did get off to a bad start, i don't mind debate especially when both of us can learn from each other.

If I came over as hostile , my bad, i hope we can continue sharing viewpoints on this topic as it is so interesting (as u so rightly stated)!

the fact that u were able to answer my questions on the last samurai proves (for me at least) that u have knowledge on the topic.

Mistakes are no biggie we all make 'em (I have made a ton of them!).

Everything i have read (so far) about Hanzo didn't indicate that he took part in any "ninja" missions, any information u would have on his activities, would be appreciated.

any questions u might have or theories u have developed run them by me i would love to hear them!

I could very much learn from both of you.

[ronin2172]

No problem Delta as this is the purpose of this forum, to allow different viewpoints and information to be shown and discussed, i am more than happy to try and answer any questions u have or any others might have.

And delta, if u have any info or theories that u have come up with please post them, I always enjoy new sources of info and POV's

[Khabbi]

Well Ronin , Ive always thought that the Edo period was the real water sheder in Japanes History . In the begining a few wars and then a long peace period , which made alot of samurais unemployed . Sorta started a Cowboy age of fast drawing katanas and duells with Samurai/ Ronins like Musashi . The Edo period has to take the heat for the miss information of Ninja , Kebuki theaters ( sp? ) used to make them into magicans / assasisn that turned into animals and stuff like that . So Its not so strange most japanes ppl and us westerners have a hard time knowing what Ninjas did . I think we both can agree that they werent the Assasin in Black PJs that killed the shogun after sneaking into the pallace . that infact the were special Ops , and spys . Dressing up as fishermen and Samurai , Spying on other lords and armys and doing ambushes and fighting in regular wars. Evrything ive heard was that they were regular Samurai that did special ops work as Ninjas . then they went back to the regular samurai dutys . Ill try to find a quote were it says they were ninja units fighting in war , I think it had somthing to do with Tokagawa .

If we both are right , It might be that Samurai Stoped being Ninja in the Edo period and Ninjas became a "lower class" och samurais who quit just did ninja work . I talked some to Stan Saki who agreed that samurai were ninjas , but it changed in the 17th h.

The samurai thing ended in the 18th h , with swords first being made optional and then forbiden , and then when the emperor ended the whole samurai thing . For some weird reason ppl still think japan has samurai and that by following the bushido u are a samurai .

Well thats all for now , Ronin , get back to me of what u think about this.

[WARPIG]

Just wanted to add.. keep in mind asian culture when it comes to history. Your "facts" are only as accurate as those who record them. The truth is not always recorded, yet facts often helped support the view of the historian. Especially in Asian culture. I have noticed that when a name is dropped in credit for a piece of history.. this is usually a self proclaimed position or an attempt to focus supporting facts. One example is the way most people assume Martial Arts originated in Japan, Korea, China... etc. This may not be wholly inaccurate but it is a common misnomer. Maybe our historians can point out the specifics. I know that Korean culture tried to make history reflect that Tae Kwon Do, was a MA that was created by the Koreans... it is not. Just a derivative of Karate.. which is a derivative of Chinese boxing, which is said to have been introduced by an Indonesian monk, who saw Greek soldiers trained in hand to hand.. etc.

I think the origins of Bushido, Samuri, and Ninja .. all have similar vague spots due to cultural pride, interpretation, and mis-translations.

Great info and research guys. I really appreciate coming to forums and having my mind expanded. Keep it up. My opinion was just that.. not any criticism of your great research.

[ronin2172]

thanx for the compliment Warpig, and yes u r very correct in your statement about the origin of Ninja's being vague.

I agree with u khabbi that ninja's didn't always wear the 'black pajamas' , They were more than likely to be found dressed up as monks, or entertainers (both of whom tended to have free travel through all domains, something which any intellegent ninja would have taken advantage of) or fisherman, farmer (which was all that was necessary to spy or instigate trouble )etc. To end sieges they even dresed in the uniform of the opposition to gain entrance into the castle (to open the gates or start a fire, or just to poke around and find out the exact number of troops, their condition, and their morale) But to say they never wore the black outfit on missions, i can't quite say.

To murder an important Daimyo (Oda Nobunaga for instance) would have been very difficult. Daimyos especially important ones surrounded themselves with handpicked bodyguards, who were thoroughly checked out. For an assasin (ninja or otherwise) to insert themselves into this very insular world would be difficult, I would dare say impossible. It would be far easier and efficient (from a time standpoint) to attempt this by sneaking into the castle or wherever the target was sleeping.

Since this attempt would be made under the cover of darkness, it would be logical for the assasin to wear clothing that blended into the shadows, hence the dark suit we know and love might just have been a real part of ninja equipment (along with the short sword, shruiken, climbing claws etc). The exact shape and style, who knows, but again the fact that it was relativly tight fitting would again be logical, as a kimono would tend to get in the way. The mask, again is logical, as skin is a great reflector of light so it would again be logical to utilise a mask (or some way to darken the face at least).

Not saying u r wrong, or that i am right. This is just conjecture on my part!

As for ninja being Samurai, again i haven't uncovered (yet) any evidence that showed that ninja were samurai other than the aforementioned Hattori Hanzo (u quite correctly stated he was a hattomoto), but again it stated that he was a shonin not a genin (genin were the ones who carried out the missions. Shonin were the head of a village something akin to a governor). Again the ninja operated in stark contrast to the sensibilities of the samurai (remember the daimyo house rules, which strictly limits the conduct of samurai). The following is an excerpt from the gunkimono (war tale) that deals with the life of Taira Masakado written roughly around 940 AD:

Over forty of the enemy were killed on that day, and only a handful managed to escape with their lives. Those who were able to survive the fighting fled in all direction, blessed by Heavan's good fortune. As for Yoshikane's spy Koharumaru, Heaven soon visited its punishment on him; his misdeeds were found out, and he was captured and killed.

Spying was one of the classic roles associated with the ninja , this is as far as i have seen the first written confirmation of the samurai's distaste for the tactic.

Anything other than honorable combat was considered beneath the samurai, rightly or wrongly the samurai held firm to their beliefs. Now saying that we all know the samurai were human and susceptible to human foibles (in other words there were samurai who cheated, murdered, lied etc) but upon discovery these samurai were invited to commit seppuku (aka Hari Kiri) upon the discovery of their transgressions, as this was the only way for them to regain some honor. Treachery was one, if not the most distasteful act for a samurai to commit (even against one's enemies). Now if a non-samurai were to commit this act then it was ok (still distasteful to the samurai, but hey they are not samurai and r without honor to begin with!) for non samurai were not governed by such laws.

As unseemly as the samurai found it they still utilised the tactic (and those who practiced it) often. In fact it was often necessary to use it.

The following is an excerpt from the Mikawa Go Fudoki (which details a successful attempt to take hostages):

Mitsuhara Sanza'emon said, As this castle is built upon a formidible precipice we will be condemning many of our allies to suffer great losses. But by good fortune there are among the go-hattamoto some men associated with the koga-shu* of omi province. Summon the koga-shu through their compatriots so they can sneak into the castle.

*koga is one of the areas famous for producing ninja, Iga is the other

This group was ordered to lie down and hide in several places, and on the night of the fifteenth day of the third month sneaked inside the castle. Before long they were setting fire to towers inside the fortress.

During this op the ninja were dressed the same as the castle garison causing confusion. 200 of the defenders died in the fire, but two VIPs were taken and used as hostage. The leader of the samurai was even written a kanshajo (letter of commendation) to the leader of the ninja. This leader was none other than Tokugawa Iyeasu the future Shogun of Japan!

[duck]

Have you guys checked some traditional Jiu-Jitsu styles like Hontai Yoshin Ryu that the Samurai used to hone their combat skills? They seem very similar to Ninjutsu in the scientific approach to the human body and psyche. Oh, and the majority of post-war Japanese prime ministers are descendants of Samurai families, I believe.

[ronin2172]

Let me clarify my last post; Tokugawa Iyeasu was the leader of the samurai who wrote the letter of commendation not the leader of the ninja who recieved the letter.

Duck, i haven't checked out the disciplines that u mentioned, I would believe that the basics would be very similar (especially if what warpig said is true, and it probably is). As to your statement about the majority of japan's prime ministers being descendants of samurai, i would not be surprised if that was the case, these men were only a few generations removed form the time of the samurai, when they were born.

[Delta Niner]

No problem Delta as this is the purpose of this forum, to allow different viewpoints and information to be shown and discussed, i am more than happy to try and answer any questions u have or any others might have.

And delta, if u have any info or theories that u have come up with please post them, I always enjoy new sources of info and POV's

Somehow I'm apt to think that if our present political leaders would have just a bit of samurai traits in them, this world would be a better place. I mean moral values and fortitude is much desired trait for any leader military or political.

[ronin2172]

I agree moral values and fortitude are a ideal trait, however the samuria wre not truly role models in this regard. Samurai were human and suseptible to the same fobiles which all humans are prey to.

The closest thing to a politician in the samurai world was the Daimyo (mind u he wasn't elected nor was he answerable to the people who lived in his domain). Daimyo's backstabbed and doubledealed as much as any modern day politician (to put it simply trust no one!), in fact since they were not answerable to anybody they pulled stunts which no modern day politician would dare contemplate! All Daimyo's desired one thing above all others power and the ultimate power in Japan was the title of Shogun (supreme military dictator). And Daimyos would do anything to get it.

A common diplomatic ploy was to take hostages (not in the modern terrorist sense), this was done to ensure that a rival daimyo would 'behave' correctly, these hostages were mainly family members of a daimyo (sons, daughters, mothers, in laws). In some cases this was done diplomatically (in other cases not so diplomatically), now unlike modern day hostage taking the hostage was very safe and treated very well (the hostage wanted for nothing, they were treated as honored guests), for if a hostage was to die in your safekeeping then it would reflect badly on the hostage taker.

Imagine that happening today. Imagine president Bush taking a son from President Putin (if he has any) to ensure Putin does or doesn't do something. It would be unacceptable, no matter how well the hostage was treated. in this case the hostage would be living at the white house, enjoy the protection of the Secret Service

Another not too uncommon practice in fuedal japan is for a daimyo to switch sides. We all know that today's enemies can be tomorrows friends, but this usually happens over time and usually when a common enemy arises. However in Fuedal japan it was common for allies to switch sides DURING the course of battle!

Usually the offending party would strike a deal with the 'enemy' before the battle would begin and either refuse to take part (or perhaps be tardy in getting to the battlefield) or at a pre planned time simply turn his forces on his "allies". This would be akin to the UK during the heat of the battle for Basrah or the Al Faw peninsula, suddenly declaring allegiance to Saddam and turning on US forces!

Another common ploy was to activly de-stabilize a rival's territory ( a specialty of the ninja). An agent in your employ might go to a town and stir up trouble (complain about taxes and such, always a legetimate gripe of the common man) and instigate an ikki (uprising) which would have to be put down and threw the region into chaos, thus denying the target Daimyo access to the revenue from that particular area.

Imagine that happening today. if in retaliation for taking his son as hostage Putin sent agents to key industries in the US and caused riots which severly hurt the Economy. No politician in his right mind would do that!

Now the subterfuge, backstabbing, and wheeling and dealing didn't stop when a Daimyo became Shogun, in fact the tempo probably increased!

It is far harder to hold on to power that it is to gain it!

[Delta Niner]

[quote="ronin2172"]I agree moral values and fortitude are a ideal trait, however the samuria wre not truly role models in this regard. Samurai were human and suseptible to the same fobiles which all humans are prey to.
My friend Ronin,
I know that but maybe you don't have any idea what kind of politicians we have here in our country. :) well maybe that's democracy ;)
Check Six

[ronin2172]

LOL....i think that applies to politicians every where and from every time, regardless of the political system!

[Delta Niner]

LOL....i think that applies to politicians every where and from every time, regardless of the political system!

Guess you are right. Where are u from?

[ronin2172]

I am from the US, i currently reside in purgatory (Daytona Beach Fla)LOL. It ain't that bad actually!

[Delta Niner]

I am from the US, i currently reside in purgatory (Daytona Beach Fla)LOL. It ain't that bad actually!

I assume that you could always go down to the beach and girl watch if you got too bored. That wouldn't be too bad right... :D

[ronin2172]

U can do that when there is something to look at!lol

[Delta Niner]

U can do that when there is something to look at!lol
If it is still summer there at your end, then that would not be a problem. :)