World Bank chief predicts China, India will dominate the world in the coming decades.

[pud]

http://www.whofailedtoday.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?id=157112

[Ordie]

:roll:

Yawn....

Anyone for some Pot Stickers or Curry???

[ViktorNavorski]

http://www.whofailedtoday.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?id=157112
roflThe posts on that forum is excellent...!

[Freedom-Fries]

China's future = millions of homo****** men.

India's future = HIV/AIDS.
http://www.whofailedtoday.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?id=157112

good point

[Loki77]

China and India don't have gas and oil.. will Not be nothing...

To Chinese perhaps because of his "friendship with Russia and Iran" that have a lot Gas and Oil.

India is a country without future. Hindus and muslims are ABHORRED. And also the QUICK increase of the Aids and rage in the country. And the Pakistani full of nuclear weapons I park in its border.

China maybe..But India bull****!!!

[eugenlitwin]

China and India don't have gas and oil.. will Not be nothing...

To Chinese perhaps because of his "friendship with Russia and Iran" that have a lot Gas and Oil.

India is a country without future. Hindus and muslims are ABHORRED. And also the QUICK increase of the Aids and rage in the country. And the Pakistani full of nuclear weapons I park in its border.

China maybe..But India bull****!!!

Here I disagree with you China totalitarian communist state, too big to be transformed to even sort of democracy.

Plague played positive role for Europe economicp-) .
PS Same was told about soviet economy in 60s and where is soviet?

[Cedan]

the roman empire didnt last forever nor wil US dominance

[Ordie]

the roman empire didnt last forever nor wil US dominance

Yet Chinese civilization has lasted for 5,000 years and will continue to do so.

[sir-chimp]

Well we're screwed, good thing I have my little red book and my Mao Zedong lunch box ready to go.

Zedong Zedong Zedong Dong

[Ordie]

China and India don't have gas and oil.. will Not be nothing...

To Chinese perhaps because of his "friendship with Russia and Iran" that have a lot Gas and Oil.

India is a country without future. Hindus and muslims are ABHORRED. And also the QUICK increase of the Aids and rage in the country. And the Pakistani full of nuclear weapons I park in its border.

China maybe..But India bull****!!!

I would not discount India. They are the largest Democratic nation. They have been stable and kept the unity of the country. Increasing revenues are breaking down the caste system and religious barriers. If everyone is making money, no one cares about pecking order. Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka may benefit from the externatlities of India's growth.

The challenge for the United States is the lack of business intelligence of both the Chinese and Indian domestic markets. This can only come about educating ourselves Mandarin, Hindi or Punjabi, and understanding the values and norms. The future role of the US is that of a business broker, managers and idea factory.

[Loki77]

China is becoming stronger in economics than the USA or Europe ? ERROR! The US-capitalism of China is built on sand and will collapse soon. The wealth of China is invested in zero-value bonds, called US-Treasury-Bonds. The USA and Europe will react in matters of unemployment and no longer accept zero-salaries for Chinese workers. This makes an end to one of the greatest stupidities in World Economy.

India is a deeply divided country between Muslins and Hindu. The tension with the Pakistan alone will go it increase because of the Kashmir.

[Mastermind]

Here is the way I see it...China and India's economies are intricately tied to the US economy...both nations together do not even approach the USA economy (over all)....When you factor in the increasing cost of keeping their dissafffected classes quiet and their humbling nearness to falling below the "break even" line in mass starvation, I don't think the USA has much to worry about directly from either nation for a long time to come....

However...and it is a huge "however"...that is not to say some sort of political or social calamity will not change things overnight. The American economy is not as stable as many would have us believe...our massive debt is staggering, even for an economy as large as ours. Our failure to come to gradual grips with our dependance on foreign energy is appalling. Additionally, we have become overly confident and quite "fat" and apathetic. Our leadership quality is in the dumpster. We have the ability to massively fail...as does any other of the big ten economies of the world. But, when the USA fails..the entire world fails with us.

I fully expect a "1929" type of economic disaster to come some day in the next ten or twenty years....and I believe this one will make the "Great Depression" of the past century, that led to such bloody and massive war, look like a Sunday afternoon picknick. And though the USA will suffer terribly, India and China will be hell on this Earth.

MM

[STIG]

China and India don't have gas and oil.. will Not be nothing...

To Chinese perhaps because of his "friendship with Russia and Iran" that have a lot Gas and Oil.

India is a country without future. Hindus and muslims are ABHORRED. And also the QUICK increase of the Aids and rage in the country. And the Pakistani full of nuclear weapons I park in its border.

China maybe..But India bull****!!!

wow ..just wow. This is one of the most uninformed posts i've seen on mp.net. I am not even going to try to dignify this crap.

[SOG]

Look, a countries getting bigger. Lets hop around like monkeys and make predictions. One of us in a few thousand will get it right then we can brag like bitches that one prediction we made came true.

Let it all come and go. It is of no worry. Everyone rises and falls with the waves of life.

[Cedan]

Yet Chinese civilization has lasted for 5,000 years and will continue to do so.

yes but would you really compare chinese civilization to a empire?

[Steel21]

There is a certain plausibility in the rise of China and to a lesser degree India.

Measured in purchasing power parity.....China's economy weights in at around $8.8 Trillion https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html#Econ. India, being a bit late to the game, is quoted at $3.6 Trillion https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html#Econ. By comparisons, the US economy is measured at $12.3 Trillion.

The problem with India is that it will eventually overtake China in terms of populations, while its physical infrastructure are still nascent state compared to China's East Coast.

Keep in mind that Democracy can be a hinderance during a transformation, especially in a highly participated democracy. The reason is simple, when all the interests are represented, no changes are made.

However, the emergence of other powers is not neccessarily bad. It will ease the responsibility placed on the sole global superpower.

In the end, I find it no misfortune if one day we can simply go on living like Canadians.

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

good choice of sites...go to the link and scroll down a couple posts and i quote...

"Surprise, surprise.

Wolfensohn is a jew:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wolfensohn"

"Guess he's been tasked with preparing USA to be dominated.

Of course the jews plan to lord over us, but blaming the Chinese and Indians makes it easier for sneaky jews to cut our throats."

then from the same poster

"Mr. Jewy Jewinstein doesn't know what the **** he's talking about. China and India are ****ed."

[Ordie]

yes but would you really compare chinese civilization to a empire?

Empires come and go. Civilizations either disappear (Eygptian) or morph into other nationalities (Roman - Byzantine or Dark Ages). However the Chinese have maintained consistency for 5000 years.

The Chinese did away with feudalism of Barons and Dukes. They set up a strong bureaucracy based on merit. Therefore any person regardless of status may take the 'civil servant' exam. This is why education is highly valued in China. It was your meal ticket.

The Mandate of Heaven (fate) will always determine the Dynasty. Therefore Chinese Dynasties will come and go but the Bureaucracy remains the same.

[Durandal]

Yet Chinese civilization has lasted for 5,000 years and will continue to do so.

A total load of crap. China is a series of failed kingdoms and oligarchies half of which were never TRULY Chinese, in the modern sense.

Now, if when you say "civilization" you mean a nation where 90% of the people have been slaves in some form or another for the past 5000 years in a quasi-caste system, then I would agree.

That said, China and India, COULD be the future, if they do not blow it. It can go either way. If they do, they will be power houses the world has never seen, for good or for bad.

I would argue that it is in our best interest to see them succeed.

[Steel21]

A total load of crap. China is a series of failed kingdoms and oligarchies half of which were never TRULY Chinese, in the modern sense.

But the same can be said of almost all nations in one sense of another. Hell, even our own short and brief history is mired in the same way.

BTW, which of the dynasties would you characterize as not "TRULY" Chinese, excluding the obvious Chin and Yuan.

I wonder what arbitrary role can the US play in all of this. Its not as if we control their fate.

From what I read in the economist, it seems the Chinese are developing an increasingly diverse domestic consumer base. As they prosper, inevitably there will be increasingly more wealthier middle class Chinese consumers.

They will still be heavily dependent on our market for another 10 years or so, after that........

Political instability is unlikely, the Taiwan dispute will also become more and more irrelevent. I willing to bet on a united China (separate political entities) by 2020.

[LaoSexMachine]

I, for one welcome our new Chinese overlord,

[Henry's Fork]

That said, China and India, COULD be the future, if they do not blow it. It can go either way. If they do, they will be power houses the world has never seen, for good or for bad.

I would argue that it is in our best interest to see them succeed.

QFT. Its far better working with them than against them, even if they are reaping the better benefits.

In all this hoopla i just want to see where they hide the many millions of dirt poor people to climb into first world status.

[Durandal]

But the same can be said of almost all nations in one sense of another. Hell, even our own short and brief history is mired in the same way.

When you say "our" I guess you mean the United States, since that is the nation that I am a citizen of. The United States has existed uninterrupted since 1783, regardless of size or transformation....some 224 years old. The People's Republic of China is, as a nation, was born in 1949 and is 57 years old. Chinese culture, like Western culture is of course much older.


BTW, which of the dynasties would you characterize as not "TRULY" Chinese, excluding the obvious Chin and Yuan.

Well, there is the Xia. Which were estimated to be around no later than 2000 to 1800 B.C., give or take...so that right there the so called 5000 year of China is cut to less than 4000.

The Shang, whom came later 220 B.C.-ish, so now we are down to under 3000K. Now, the Zhou (and the Warring States period), for all the classical philosophy that came from this period that defines the Chinese caste system and religious faiths, I'll still argue that they started off as nomadic tribesmen and were the bitches of the Shang and the TRUE dynastic period that defines China came afterwards.

Then there are the Liao and Western Xia, which, even according to CHinese Historians are decidedly, non-Chinese kingdoms that co-existed with the Song.

Then as you mentioned the Yuan and the Qing (Imperial) Dynasties, which represent close to 500 years of "Chinese" history.

I am not being critical of China, I am simply saying that ANY place on earth can claim similar 5000 years of history to a more or less similar degree. And that thinking China is somehow special because of it simply feeds the ??, middle kingdom bull$hit.


I wonder what arbitrary role can the US play in all of this. Its not as if we control their fate.

False. We BOTH control each other's fate. We are, at least currently, tied together, by a number of ways. The U.S. feeds China's demand for raw material and food (grains) and China feeds our consumerism and bank rolls our debt. American's if they were to unite in a common goal and simply spend within their means would wreck China's production. You would see massive drops in the production levels because China's new middle class is not ready to take up the consuming torch and Eurpeans simply do not have the disposable income to match it.


From what I read in the economist, it seems the Chinese are developing an increasingly diverse domestic consumer base. As they prosper, inevitably there will be increasingly more wealthier middle class Chinese consumers.

There have been lots of articles about this. What about the other ones? The ones dealing with corruption on a massive scale, an economy based on a deliberately weak currency, the fact that the cities are bursting at the seams with a massive migration of young agrarian workers and unemployed students. The pollution is another symptom of problems that lay a head.

I am not saying China is NOT having a boom. It is, but there are cracks under the surface that could be fixed, but left to sit there will beharmful in the long run.


Political instability is unlikely, the Taiwan dispute will also become more and more irrelevent. I willing to bet on a united China (separate political entities) by 2020.

I think its foolish to think that political instability is NOT an issue. China, currently, is politically unstable. Look at the courts, fraud, corruption, control of the media, its xenophobia of outsiders and inherent racism both to foreigners, its own provincial people, and agrarian vs. urban....its nuts. It makes the problems the U.S. has look like a kids game.

There are plenty of possibilities for political nightmares, none of them having ANYTHING to do with Taiwan.

What I am saying, unlike you is "I don't know". No one knows.

All I know is that 2 BILLION people (between China and India) with spending capital is a good thing for anyone that can even harness a fraction of it, regardless of whether 50 years from now China and India are the next Cold War. No one can even fathom it. Think of it. Till now, 40% of the what the world produces is purchased by Americans or American companies. 40% purchased by 5%. Now imagine what 1/6th or 1/3 of the world's population will do after the save some of their income and have a nice chunk of discretionary spending.

Its awe inspiring. If it the U.S. was smart, like say P&G is, it would try to market to that population of consumers.

[vrb]

China and India don't have gas and oil.. will Not be nothing...

To Chinese perhaps because of his "friendship with Russia and Iran" that have a lot Gas and Oil.

India is a country without future. Hindus and muslims are ABHORRED. And also the QUICK increase of the Aids and rage in the country. And the Pakistani full of nuclear weapons I park in its border.

China maybe..But India bull****!!!


Are you some sort of retard? Who exactly abhors Hindus? I'm not one myself but I don't see many anti-Hindu demonstrations around the world.

I suggest that you 'go to school'. Learn about the real world and then post something.

If India was so rubbish why has the largest US trade delgation to any country ever just arrived in India?

Both countries have a lot of 'potential'.

A lot of countries have relations with the Russian and Iran. Maybe you have forgotten that Oil and Gas will run out somtime in the next century.

p.s India and China do have some oil and gas. Maybe the drilling rigs and fields I saw at Bombay High were just a figment of my imagination

[XShipRider]

Yet Chinese civilization has lasted for 5,000 years and will continue to do so.

Essentially behind closed doors for centuries. Globalization and open
doors (borders and trade) will change China dramtically. We're beyond
the silk trade now. China wants to dominate industry which they're
starting to do a pretty good job of. But eventually the labor force will
demand more which will increase production costs. It's just a matter
of time before the Chinese people, all 1.6B of them, join the "I want
mine - now!" club*. When that happens the jobs will outsource to
a cheaper labor pool either in southern Asia or central Africa.

*Consumerism and free markets at their finest.

[Steel21]

Durandal:

I guess that comes down to how do you define Chinese. Linguistic were not standardized until the Qin, but racially, they are indistinguishable from the modern Chinese.

Of course, the earlier dynasties had to contend with the nomadic raiders, but they themselves were of settled infrastructure.

Yes, I agree with you that the emergence of new markets is a both encouraging and welcomed. I just dont see any real advantage in US being the sole unitary "Superpower" in the world, especially to its citizens.

[makavelli]

well, i kinda agree..
its obvious that living standard and quality of live will be different since their power are economies of scale.
but then would you define success as high GDP?
remember, countries with natural disaster problem couldve higher GDP since they spend more...
or would you define success as high living standard?
also remember countries with higher living standard got higher rate of marriage problems, higher "quality" crime, etc..

well honestly, id rather spend $3000 computer made in china than $10000 made in Australia (same spec)..

just my 2 cents..



China and India don't have gas and oil.. will Not be nothing...

To Chinese perhaps because of his "friendship with Russia and Iran" that have a lot Gas and Oil.

India is a country without future. Hindus and muslims are ABHORRED. And also the QUICK increase of the Aids and rage in the country. And the Pakistani full of nuclear weapons I park in its border.

China maybe..But India bull****!!!

well dude..
i define success as Human Resource, Not environment resource
Japan, England, even Singapore...what do they have?
yet they are considered more successful than saudi arabia, venezuela, and etc in economics...

[eugenlitwin]

The USA and Europe will react in matters of unemployment and no longer accept zero-salaries for Chinese workers. This makes an end to one of the greatest stupidities in World Economy.

.

This is good point. I don’t think that free world would accept much longer export from Chinese slave- factories. You know that in Scandinavia majority people really against it. It´s just matter of time when we’d stop this.

[eugenlitwin]

just my 2 cents..




well dude..
i define success as Human Resource, Not environment resource
Japan, England, even Singapore...what do they have?
yet they are considered more successful than saudi arabia, venezuela, and etc in economics...

Every one who did, does economic in university know it…Venice, Athens republics etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernand_Braudel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernand_Braudel)

classic…
Fernand Braudel



Fernand Braudel
Fernand Braudel (August 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_24), 1902 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1902)–November 27 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_27), 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985)) was a French historian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian). He revolutionized the 20th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_century) study of his discipline by considering the effects of such outside disciplines as economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics), anthropology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology), and geography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography) on global history. He was a prominent member of the Annales School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annales_School) of historiography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography), who concentrated on meticulous historical analysis in the social sciences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science).

[khukuri]

Alot of people here are underrating the Indians. They def have prospects of becoming world power. Theyre 1 billion, theyre industris are moving forward rapidly.

[Mastermind]

Same thing will happen to the Chinese and the Indians that happened to the US and EU...their populations will grow fat and lazy and apathetic toward preserving their nation...but so long as they have Walmart and football and a TV, everything will be ju-u-u-st fine.

MM