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Ligreton
12-01-2006, 12:51 PM
Here some images from the future spanish submarine S80
2500t. AIP. TacTom launchers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/SUT/DSC09606.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/SUT/DSC09607.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/SUT/DSC09604.jpg

Sorry if double post.

ShotOver
12-01-2006, 12:59 PM
Good post mate. Looks like a pretty good idea for a submarine.

The front looks way too "kilo" for me though. What is it, nuke? or Diesel.

muttbutt
12-01-2006, 01:00 PM
I heard Spain is getting TACTOM's, true?

Ligreton
12-01-2006, 01:14 PM
Yes, the US aproved last summer the sell of Tomahawks to Spain. Today 1Dec, MoD Alonso has approved the buy.


What is it, nuke? or Diesel
Diesel + AIP Fuel cells

Lockheed Martin colaborates with Navantia, FABA Sistemas and Indra in the developement of the Combat System.

This or a variant of this could be the future sub for Taiwan.

Sorry for my english p-)

Ghelp
12-01-2006, 01:18 PM
Nice photos.Looks very capable.When is it set to enter Armada service?

Ciao

Ligreton
12-01-2006, 01:30 PM
I think in 2010. A lot of years...
The construction has started in cartagena, but some component are not yet totally developped (Fuel cells and AIP system i.e.)

ElHombre
12-01-2006, 01:50 PM
Nice boat. Is that 4 tubes in the bow?

easyand
12-01-2006, 02:25 PM
nice sub, i read that the autopilot is made in italy (Avio)

Have you some more pics form euronaval?

rrin
12-01-2006, 02:40 PM
I heard Spain is getting TACTOM's, true?

They might get Tomahawks but not the newer "Tactical Tomahawks" as those can't be launched from torpedo tubes and this sub doesn't appear to have VLS like the 688's and Virginias

ZARDOZ
12-01-2006, 02:51 PM
A work of art. Too bad Guggenheim did not design it for you as well, now that would really be impressive!

Still, she is a beautiful vessel.

Desea España viva sobre los mares

rjbhutton
12-01-2006, 03:12 PM
excuse my extreme ignorance of submarines... but what is so special about this? It looks like... well... every other submarine I've ever seen. Maybe all the cool stuff is in the description of capabilities... is it super stealthy... have a caterpillar drive (or whatever that "Hunt for Red October" sub had!)?

ElHombre
12-01-2006, 03:58 PM
Most subs are developments of the old USS Albacore, so they'll all look more or less the same. Two of the main points for this sub are that a) it has a AIP drive (because not every country can have nuclear boats), and b) it's being built in Spain.

rrin
12-01-2006, 05:06 PM
Most subs are developments of the old USS Albacore, so they'll all look more or less the same. Two of the main points for this sub are that a) it has a AIP drive (because not every country can have nuclear boats), and b) it's being built in Spain.

Yes and no. The Albacore had a true teardrop-shaped hull where as most of today's subs have a more or less circular cross section with parallel sides (cylindrical) with streamlined caps on either end.

kakitsubata
12-01-2006, 05:26 PM
excuse my extreme ignorance of submarines... but what is so special about this? It looks like... well... every other submarine I've ever seen. Maybe all the cool stuff is in the description of capabilities... is it super stealthy... have a caterpillar drive (or whatever that "Hunt for Red October" sub had!)?

You can tell only so much from looking at the surface. The stuff that matters (sensors, combat/weapon systems, propulsion system, crew) are all inside the hull.

ZARDOZ
12-01-2006, 05:48 PM
(Must use willpower to fight impulse..... Mayday! Mayday! Mayday! Failure to contain comment! Imminent inane statement dead ahead on port bow!!!...)




You can tell only so much from looking at the surface. The stuff that matters (sensors, combat/weapon systems, propulsion system, crew) are all inside the hull.


So you are saying the seamen inside makes all the difference? Heck even my Momma knew that when she was looking to make a warrior to reap havoc upon the earth....


"Mission accomplished."

A big hooha! for Dad.

saigonsmuggler
12-01-2006, 05:52 PM
Yes and no. The Albacore had a true teardrop-shaped hull where as most of today's subs have a more or less circular cross section with parallel sides (cylindrical) with streamlined caps on either end.
sferrin, I think the British Trafalgar class subs have the albacore hull IIRC.

Yaro
12-01-2006, 06:33 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/SUT/DSC09604.jpg
Thats a good looking submarine.

Maskirovka
12-01-2006, 06:49 PM
Is it french or german design?

Subsonic
12-01-2006, 07:06 PM
Is it french or german design?

It's a Spanish development of the smaller Franco-Spanish designed Scorpène class of subs.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/industry/contracts-awards/s80-a-sub-for-spain-to-sail-out-on-the-main-02517/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorp%C3%A8ne_class_submarine

goat89
12-01-2006, 08:43 PM
Nice. RSN should buy one! But they are somewhat loyal customers to the Swedes. :)

rjbhutton
12-01-2006, 10:20 PM
(Must use willpower to fight impulse..... Mayday! Mayday! Mayday! Failure to contain comment! Imminent inane statement dead ahead on port bow!!!...)




So you are saying the seamen inside makes all the difference? Heck even my Momma knew that when she was looking to make a warrior to reap havoc upon the earth....


"Mission accomplished."

A big hooha! for Dad.


Brilliant!! rofl

Ligreton
12-02-2006, 10:09 AM
They might get Tomahawks but not the newer "Tactical Tomahawks" as those can't be launched from torpedo tubes and this sub doesn't appear to have VLS like the 688's and Virginias

All the news that i have read say Tactom... i dont know more. The combat system is similar to the Virgina Class SSN Subics.

The design is more different to the scorpene sub that i thought. Is a different sub.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/industry/contracts-awards/s80-a-sub-for-spain-to-sail-out-on-the-main-02517/ (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/industry/contracts-awards/s80-a-sub-for-spain-to-sail-out-on-the-main-02517/)

S-80: A Sub, for Spain, to Sail Out on the Main


10-Aug-2006 09:31 | Permanent Link (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/industry/contracts-awards/s80-a-sub-for-spain-to-sail-out-on-the-main-02517/)
Related stories: Contracts - Awards (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/industry/contracts-awards/), New Systems Tech (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/innovation/new-systems-tech/), Americas - USA (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/geographical-focus/americas-usa/), Submarines (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/naval-equipment/submarines/), Lockheed Martin (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/corporation/lockheed-martin/), United Technologies (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/corporation/united-technologies/), Thales (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/corporation/thales/), Other Corporation (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/corporation/other-corporation/), Partnerships & Consortia (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/industry/partnerships-consortia/), Electronics - General (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/electronics-it/electronics-general/), IT - Software & Integration (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/electronics-it/it-software-integration/), Sensors & Guidance (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/electronics-it/sensors-guidance/), Radars (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/electronics-it/radars/), Europe - France (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/geographical-focus/europe-france/), Europe - Other (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/geographical-focus/europe-other/), Alliances (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/politics/alliances/), FOCUS Articles (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/wp-output/cat/did-site/focus-articles/)

CM-2000 Scorpene cutaway
(click to view full)

DID has covered SSK Scorpene Class submarines before, most notably via the $3.5 billion deal India signed (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/innovation/new-systems-tech/india-to-sign-multibillion-dollar-scorpene-sub-contract-updated-01194/) for 6 submarines – some of which were subsequently upgraded to AM-2000 orders (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/innovation/new-systems-tech/india-looks-to-modify-scorpene-subs-with-mesma-aip-propulsion-01954/) with MESMA Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems alongside their diesel-electric drives. The Scorpene is a collaboration between DCN and Navantia, and has been ordered by Chile (2), Malaysia (2), and India (6).
Navantia is also building its own design for the Spanish Armada. Spain’s new submarines will be larger boats with AIP systems as standard gear and other important modifications, and have been given the designation S-80.
This article will cover the S-80 submarines and the contracts associated with the Spanish Armada’s orders, including subsidiary contracts for related systems. DID especially appreciates the efforts of reader Pedro Lucio to keep us up to date on this subject. Muchas gracias! Others who wish to help as well should email tips, over here @defenseindustrydaily.com.
Spain’s S-80 Submarines: Program & Schedule

S-80 cutaway, labeled
(click to view full)

In September 2003, the Spanish Council of Ministers gave the go-ahead for Spanish production of S-80 submarines. The S-80 program had varying reported values from EUR 1.75 – 2.1 billion, with Navantia’s predecessor Izar tasked for the order. Reports also indicate that options exist for another 4 submarines.
Spain’s S-80 submarines will all be modified AIM 2000 Scorpene AIP boats. While a conventional CM-2000 Scorpene can operate underwater for 4-6 days without surfacing or snorkelling to get oxygen to recharge its batteries, an AM-2000 Scorpene AIP is able to operate for up to 18 days depending on variables like speed, et. al. Each AIP system costs around $50-60 million and adds a new 8.3 meter (27 foot), 305 tonne hull section to the submarine. The resulting AM-2000 AIP submarine is 70m long and displaces about 1,870t.*
Navantia lists the S-80’s width as rather wider than the conventional Scorpene, however, at 7.3 meters vs. 6.2 meters. The Spanish Armada, in turn, lists the S-80’s displacement at 2,400t.
One of the most interesting trends to observe as one watches the Spanish contracts being issued is the consistent choice of equipment that differs from the ‘standard’ Scorpene configuration: a UTC AIP instead of the French MESMA, a Lockheed combat system instead of the SUBTICS from France’s Thales/Armaris, et. al. Navantia even lists the vessels separately on its site. Spain appears to be using its 4-8 submarine contract to build up a unique Spanish version with minimal dependence on its French partners. Or possibly, just a different set of requirements.
There are persistent reports that Spain’s S-80s may deploy GM-86 Tomahawk sea-launched land attack cruise missiles in addition to their usual armament, and there have been consistent rumors that Spain remains interested in this weapons system. The Spanish Aramada site certainly includes a land attack role for the subs as one of the desired capabilities, and the S-80 Class’ increased size and Lockheed-led combat system should make it possible to add Tactical Tomahawks without a lot of fuss, and without compromising its other roles. Tomahawk missiles could also be deployed on their F100 Alvaro de Bazan Class AEGIS frigates, of course, which have the Mk41 vertical launching system to accommodate them. In general, the Spanish government has been very close-lipped concerning its plans in this matter.
According to Spanish firm Indra, the 4 Spanish S-80 submarines are scheduled to become operational between 2011-2014.

Spain’s S-80 Submarines: Contracts & Events
Final construction
(click to view full)

Unless otherwise noted, contracts are from the Spanish Armada (Navy), either directly to Spanish shipbuilder Navantia or through Navantia as the prime contractor and integrator if issued to other firms.
Nov 1/06: Breaking the Scorpene partnership? Jane’s Navy International reports (http://jni.janes.com/) that “The partnership forged by French naval shipbuilding and systems group DCN and its Spanish counterpart Navantia in the conventional submarine export market looks set to break apart as the two companies look to further their rival international ambitions.Despite securing 10 orders for variants of their jointly developed Scorpene design over the past nine years, a growing schism has emerged at corporate level as the two partners seek to bring their respective Marlin and S-80A designs to the market.”
Aug 8/06: Non-penetrating optronic masts for S-80s. Kollmorgen Electro-Optical and its Italian subsidiary, Calzoni Srl in Bologna, Italy, announce a $78.3 million contract (http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=72132&session=dae.22281008.1155155977.RNpICcOa9dUAADFTzt4&modele=release). They will provide non-penetrating optronic periscopes and imaging systems and hoistable masts for the Spanish Armada’s new S-80 submarines. The hoisting masts are based on the highly successful Universal Modular Mast utilized by the US Navy on their SSN-774 Virginia Class. Kollmorgen was the first firm to develop and deploy non-hull penetrating optronic imaging systems, while Calzoni will provide state of the art hoistable masts which raise and lower submarine sensors including radar, electronic surveillance and communication antennae, periscopes and optronic sensors.
July 27/06: Autopilot on. Avio SpA will supply its GAUDI autopilot (http://www.aviogroup.com/English/MediaCorner/IntroPressReleasesNews2.asp?cod=161) system to the S-80 program, for an undisclosed amount. Avio will collaborate with Navantia’s Faba electronics division, who also has extensive experience in control system design and construction.
July 24/06: Indra wins electronics contracts. Indra announces receipt of a EUR 24.2 million contract (http://www.defenseworld.net/Defense-News.asp/var/351-8) for the development and introduction of radars, defence electronic systems, and Friend-Foe identification systems (IFF) in S-80 submarines.

The radars will be based on the Aries systems developed by Indra and which are currently operative in surface ships. These radars are low probability of interception type (LPI) and will also perform exploration tasks. The contract includes adapting the Aries systems to submarine platforms, and installing them in the 4 Scorpene S-80 submarines.
The Friend-Foe identification systems will incorporate the new NATO identification mode 5 whose main function will be self-identification under any interrogation signal request to create reliable recognition among allies.
Indra’s modular Pegaso defence electronic systems will enable them to detect, analyze, identify and issue warnings about possible threats through radar signals and communications intercepts.July 19/06: New AIP fuel cell system from UTC. United Technologies Inc. subsidiary UTC Power announces (http://www.utcfuelcells.com/fs/com/bin/fs_com_Page/0,9235,04526,00.html) that its UTC Fuel Cells unit will design and develop a 300 kW proton exchange membrane (PEM) fuel cell power module for the Spanish shipbuilder Navantia, S.A., for use in the Spanish Navy’s new S-80 Scorpene submarines as part of their Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system. The 300 kW PEM fuel cell will be designed to operate on reformed ethanol and pure oxygen. According to an AP report (http://www.wcbs880.com/pages/59047.php), the company says it will take about five years to design and produce the system, which could result in about 80 jobs at UTC Power.
July 27/05: Thales SUBTICS out, Lockheed in. ******* reports (http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=60724&session=dae.22281609.1155158581.RNpSNcOa9dUAAEBXO8s&modele=release) that Spain’s Defence Ministry has chosen Lockheed Martin Corp. to supply combat systems for its S-80 in preference to Thales’ SUBTICS. They passed on a report from El Pais, which stated that the Lockheed contract was worth around EUR 200 million, adding laconically that “Ministry spokesmen were unable to confirm that.” They also noted this snippet on the Ministry’s web site, which said that “This decision… guarantees technology transfers from Lockheed Martin to Navantia, which will allow the Spanish shipyards to improve their future commercial prospects in the world submarine market.” Which seems to be an accurate translation of the release we found at the MDE (http://www.mde.es/).
Lockheed would eventually announce the win in a January 4, 2006 release (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=17366&rsbci=0&fti=0&ti=0&sc=400), noting the benefits its open architecture approach to the combat systems on the U.S. Navy’s SSN-774 Virginia (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=16024&rsbci=0&fti=0&ti=0&sc=400), SSN-21 Seawolf and SSN-688 Los Angeles Class submarines. For the S-80A submarines, Lockheed Martin said they would “support a Spanish industry design and develop the core combat system as a technology partner using experience gained over the last 40 years…”
S-80 Stats
Based on his research into English and Spanish language sites, DID reader Pedro Lucio has put together the following information concerning the S-80. Corrections are welcome, and should be sent to tips, over here @defenseindustrydaily.com.
Displacement – 2198 Tons. surface – 2426 Tons. above sea
Dimensions – Length: 71,05 m. – Height: 11,2 m/ 13,69 m until top of tower. – Hull: 51,76m length – 2 decks; 7,3m diameter (external), 6,75 m (internal). The S-80, like the Scorpene, is a double-hulled design which improves survivability via durability and acoustic dampening.
Performance – 19,3 knots above sea at maximun diesel – electric power (3,5 MW). – Max. depth, 350 meters. – Autonomy ( supplies) 44 days.
Operating Ranges: – Snorkel, 7500 miles at 6 knots – Surface, batteries only = 25 miles at 19,3 knots or 332 miles at 4 knots – AIP, 1440 miles at 15 knots (15 days)
Power plant – 3 diesel – generator groups x 1,2 MW – AIP Plant of UTC design 0,3 MW – One helix Weapons – Mines – 6 Tubes – 18 weapons, incl. torpedoes and missiles like Harpoon and possibly Tomahawk. Torpedoes will be STN ATLAS “Seahake” DM2 A4 (contract signed in November 2004)
Acoustic/ Electronic – Active/ Passive sonar:
CAS, cylindrical array
MOAS/MAS, Mine avoidance – Passive sonars: FAS, Flank array PRS, Passive ranging TAS, Towed Array ¿SAES SOLARSUB? IA/IAS, Interceptor Positioning ONMS/ONA, Own noise analyzer – INDRA ARIES Radar – EW System: INDRA PEGASO – Combat System: Lockheed Martin led product – MASTS & Antennas in TOWER: 7 total Radar ESM 2 communications ( SHF and IFF ) Optronic Sensor Attack periscope Snorkel
CREW: 32; 6 officers, 13 sub-officers, 13 corporals and sailors.
Additional Readings & Sources

Spanish Armada – El Futuro: Serie S-80 (http://www.armada.mde.es/esp/ElFuturo/SubmarinosS80/Capacidades.asp?SecAct=05108). En Espanol, of course.
Seapower Magazine (June 2003) – International Seapower/ Spain Requests Tomahawks For Destroyers and Submarines (http://www.navyleague.org/sea_power/jun_03_43.php). Includes some details re: the S-80 program, though some of their details conflict with other reports. A November 2003 report (http://www.navyleague.org/sea_power/nov_03_43.php) pegs the S-80’s displacement at 2,345t.
US Dept. of State Report on Spain’s Military & Defense Sector, 2004 (http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inimr-ri.nsf/en/gr111529e.html). We included it because it’s very interesting, and adds helpful overall background re: the larger context for the S-80 program and many of the firms in it.Here a lot of info. Thanks Subsonic

kakitsubata
12-02-2006, 06:35 PM
(Must use willpower to fight impulse..... Mayday! Mayday! Mayday! Failure to contain comment! Imminent inane statement dead ahead on port bow!!!...)




So you are saying the seamen inside makes all the difference? Heck even my Momma knew that when she was looking to make a warrior to reap havoc upon the earth....


"Mission accomplished."

A big hooha! for Dad.

Thanks for stating the obvious too.