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rob
06-14-2003, 07:56 PM
can anyone give me more information on this
http://www.tjacorp.com/knightt_lmg.jpg
it appears to be called the stoner lmg and i think it was introduced in 1994 or 96 by kac. any more information would be apreciated.

thanks
FallenAngel
06-14-2003, 08:53 PM
....so THATS what happens when a Minimi rapes an M16 ;)
rob
06-14-2003, 10:03 PM
not really what i was lookin' for. but i guess u could say so.

does anyone have any info?? anybody?
Doggonit55
06-14-2003, 10:16 PM
Yep, that's a Stoner Model 86.

http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/catalog/figure_pics/70191photo/70191weaponpage3.jpg

There was competition for the Mk 46 Mod 0, and FN won, while Stoner lost. This was the Stoner entry.

Did you know that the Minimi was originally supposed to be a 6mm LMG? Did you know that the first two prototypes were in 7.62x51mm? Yes, they still exist and they do work, altough not perfectly reliably. The second prototype is better than the first. Then they switched to 5.56mm.
Seraphim
06-14-2003, 10:23 PM
dragon?
Doggonit55
06-14-2003, 10:26 PM
dragon?
I don't see any dragons. I think this is a Stoner 86. Why, is there a company called Dragon that makes this? What's the asking price?
RealUltimatePower
06-14-2003, 10:43 PM
Alls I know is that Special Forces used the stoner in Vietnam. Good concept idea have every one in your section issued a LMG/rifle and there's a great ammount of firepower you can dish out. Makes sense in jungle warfare where you can just hose down the thick foliage and crap and mess up the VC wherever he's hiding.
Piccolo
06-15-2003, 12:05 AM
dragon?
I don't see any dragons. I think this is a Stoner 86. Why, is there a company called Dragon that makes this? What's the asking price?

A couple dollars I would assume. Dragon makes action figures of real life SOF/Specops et al. That picture of the Stoner is not real, it's a toy. It's a nice shot, and a pretty damn accurate model to be so small in scale, but it isn't a real steel.
rob
06-15-2003, 12:12 AM
so this was never used and or produced?
RealUltimatePower
06-15-2003, 01:07 PM
Nono he's saying that that picture is a replica picture. It was used by spec ops in Vietnam and obviously it was produced for that reason.
Piccolo
06-15-2003, 02:45 PM
No, Wolf. This is not the model used by SOF in Vietnam. That was a much earlier model, however the exact designation excapes me at this moment. The 86 model was made in the mid 90's as previously stated. It was to be a contender for the new SEAL LMG (MK46 Mod 0 - M249 customized), as Stoner was still very popular from his older MG back in the 'Nam days with the SEALs.
REMOV
06-15-2003, 02:56 PM
Alls I know is that Special Forces used the stoner in Vietnam.
It was the Stoner 63 Weapons system. It was something like puzzle, this weapon used a single receiver module which, using a variety of parts, could be built up as an assault rifle, a carbine, a light automatic rifle (uses box magazine) or as a squad automatic weapon (uses belt and ammo box).

Receiver module:
http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/stoner63_01.jpg
Assault rifle:
http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/stoner63_02.jpg
Light automatic rifle:
http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/stoner63_03.jpg
Squad automatic weapon:
http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/stoner63_05.jpg
Source: http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/stoner-63.html
rob
06-15-2003, 04:07 PM
i know about the stoner m63. it was almost adopted by the marines but the government wanted a common weapon for all branches the m16. robarm make a modern version of the thing.

so this one is called the model 86 and is an update of the older ones. does anyone know if it is lighter, less reliable of thins like that then the m249.
James
06-16-2003, 01:19 AM
It is hard to say what that is. There is a company called Ares Defense that has developed a belt fed upper than can be dropped onto an M-16/M-4 lower. It is called the "Shrike". Check www.aresdefense.com.
James
06-16-2003, 01:20 AM
Please disregard my last entry. Upon closer inspection, it is clear that this weapon does not utilize an M-16 lower receiver.
MK133
06-23-2003, 03:32 AM
Here is another pic of the Stoner

http://www.wapahani.com/image29.jpg

I would take this over a minimi any day!

I have weight and other info on this weapon if anyone is interested.
James
06-23-2003, 03:50 AM
I am interested in any info you can provide. Please advise.
warchild1/27scout
06-23-2003, 09:09 AM
look up navy seals history in vietnam. the stoner was a favorite. the seals were ahead of thier time with this lightwieght belt fed automatic machine gun
THEDUDE
06-23-2003, 10:44 PM
Although Fn won it would have been cool as hell to see the SEALs carrying the Stoner around again. The Mk46 is used to "augment" a SEAL platoon that regularly just have M4s, and Mk43s. Does anyone know how SEALs use their snipers? I never really hear or see much of them.
maw
06-24-2003, 02:29 AM
yeah it's interesting to see how SEAL's are evolving the firepower a platoon carries based on the mission type. now you could conceivably pair up the m4/recon rifle and the mk46 or even go with the mk11 with the mk48 for more range/stopping power.
it looks like the Rangers are sending a couple of guys down to south carolina for the armorers/operator course in august, does this mean there'll be a procurement of mk48's for the army soon? wonder what'll happen to all those m240's? a question for any Rangers here: how's the evaluation going?
THEDUDE
06-24-2003, 08:20 PM
The SEALs are also testing the Mk48. You can put alot more accesories on it, its very similar to the Mk46 (exept its 7.62) and its lighter wieght (18.64 lbs). I dont think it will be a replacment for the Mk46 but as another option. It can also be fitted with a collapsable buttstock. I think the SEALs will go for it. But once I asked a Marine amrmorer about the M249 and he just shook his head and told me it was junk. Does any one have any fist hand info on the reliability on the SAW?
D.E. Watters
06-24-2003, 11:28 PM
The design shown above is the final version of a mid-'80s Stoner design which was first built by Ares, Inc of Port Clinton, Ohio. Stoner co-founded the outfit in 1971, and it served mostly as a R&D shop, kind of like the early years at Armalite. The Ares LMG-1 (aka: the Stoner 86) was designed as a potential sales competitor to the M249 SAW, which at time was still experiencing teething problems with reliability. Indeed, some in the military hoped that the M249 would be dropped altogether.

(Most of the problems with the M249 were not solved until the development of a Product Improvement Package. However, it took quite a while to get enough of these PIP kits to units. Some issued M249 had yet to be upgraded even as late as Operation Desert Storm in 1991.)

The Stoner 86 made extensive use of aluminum in the design to save weight. The receiver, trigger housing, feed cover, and buttstock tube were all aluminum. The remainder of the design was made of stainless or carbon steel. The feed tray was no longer than necessary to allow mounting of optics directly to the top of the receiver. The only parts retained from the Stoner 63 were the sights and the barrel mounted handle.

The family system of the Stoner 63 was shelved for in exchange for a minimum of conversions. The Stoner 86 possessed only two barrel configurations (21.5" and 15.5"), a replaceable feed cover which could accommodate M16 magazines instead of belts, and a removable buttstock and bipod. With the long barrel, buttstock, and bipod in place, the Stoner 86 is credited with a weight of 11.83 pounds and an overall length of 42 inches. With the buttstock and bipod removed, and the short barrel fitted, the weight dropped to 8.5 lbs and the OAL to 26.44".

Unlike the original M249, the Stoner 86 had a non-adjustable gas system. (The M249 PIP kit also went with a non-adjustable gas system.) Much like his old colleague L. James Sullivan's Ultimax 100, Stoner incorporated a long stroke/travel recoil system. The idea is that the bolt carrier never strikes the rear of the receiver. (In contrast, the M249 PIP kit incorporated a hydraulic buffer in its new polymer stock.)

When Ares, Inc. collapsed, the company reportedly owed a fair sum to sub-contractor Knight's Engineering in Florida. Gene Stoner cut a deal with Reed Knight allowing Knight to clean out Ares' collection of prototype weapons. (This even included a tank for which Ares had designed a 90mm main gun. Intended for the Iranian military, the tank was never returned due to the Iranian revolution of 1979.) At some point in time, Knight was also granted production rights to the Stoner 86.

Prior to Stoner's death in 1996, Stoner and Knight worked on an improved version of the Stoner 86, which became known internally at KMC/KAC as the Stoner 96. The obvious changes are external with the tube buttstock being replaced by a M4 buttstock and the forward handguard exchanged for one equipped with Knight's Rail Interface System. Later the flashhider was changed for one designed to accept KAC's M4 QD Suppressor. Internally, changes had been made to the bolt and extractor. The changes were minor enough that early Stoner 96 were merely converted from Ares' produced Stoner 86. Thus, most of the specifications remain close between the two models. The Stoner 96 gained under a pound due to the new buttstock and RIS forearm.
dobrodan
08-04-2007, 08:23 PM
Necropost... I know... But at least, I did a search!

http://www.knightarmco.com/lmg.html

A 10lb beltfed! Thatīs actually quite impressive, even if itīs without a bipod!
The Dane
04-03-2009, 03:07 PM
The Stoner LMG is being tested by the Danish army alongside with H&K MG4 and FN Minimi.. The Stoner is said to be the one that the army like the most.
Nizark
04-03-2009, 04:49 PM
HA! I was expecting something entirely diff from this post!

Thought it said 'Stoner Img' waiting for cheech and chong to pop up in 3.....2.....1....
Aldo Penniconi
04-03-2009, 09:49 PM
Don't hotlink
The Dane
04-03-2009, 09:54 PM
Sweet !! :D

I really hope that our army picks this LMG.. Our navy SF uses it and it's very reliable according to them ..
The Dane
04-03-2009, 10:01 PM
KAC PDW and LMG(last half of the video) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz1MIhJRpkY
The Dane
04-20-2009, 01:48 PM
Picture of our Navy SF's KAC LMG together with Minimi MK46 , MK48 and H&K MG4(from the Danish armys testing of a new LSW).

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww1/heinesbilleder/IMGP0725-1.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww1/heinesbilleder/IMGP0712-1.jpg

The Minimi's have problems with 5000 round stresstest apparently.. :| No problems with KAC LMG or MG4 ..
SMGLee
04-20-2009, 02:44 PM
The picture of the Danish Naval SF Stoner LMG is the last generation platofrm, the current Danish Army SF entry supposedly have a lot of the manufacturing process improved and refined to a point of less weight and also lower production cost. whcih was the major killer of the Stoner LMG against the Mk46 during the USSOCOM selection process.
The Dane
04-20-2009, 02:53 PM
The picture of the Danish Naval SF Stoner LMG is the last generation platofrm, the current Danish Army SF entry supposedly have a lot of the manufacturing process improved and refined to a point of less weight and also lower production cost. whcih was the major killer of the Stoner LMG against the Mk46 during the USSOCOM selection process.

Yeah.. 60.000dkr(aprrox 10.000$) for the Minimi and 35.000dkr for the Stoner.. !
SMGLee
04-20-2009, 03:22 PM
Yeah.. 60.000dkr(aprrox 10.000$) for the Minimi and 35.000dkr for the Stoner.. !


Interesting....what is your experience with the LMG? I h=only had range time, about 250 rounds. it shot better than the Mk46 and I liked it better.
The Dane
04-20-2009, 03:30 PM
None unfortunely.. iīve only tried the mk46. But i have talked to some of the people that are testing it.. and they only have good things to say about it.. especially the low weight and realiability impresses from what i can understand.. And i'm pretty sure it's the one that's gonna be selected.:)
HCV
04-21-2009, 02:26 AM
SOur navy SF uses it and it's very reliable according to them ..

Which gun did it replace with the FKP? The H&K Mg M/85 or the Diemaco LSV M/04?

Do you know whether the Stoner got an official designation? As in, Mg M/??.

Many thanks!

Cheers

HANS
The Dane
04-21-2009, 07:54 AM
Which gun did it replace with the FKP? The H&K Mg M/85 or the Diemaco LSV M/04?

Do you know whether the Stoner got an official designation? As in, Mg M/??.

Many thanks!

Cheers

HANS

I'm not sure which it replaced(if any).. but it wasn't the Diemaco since FKP got their Stoners in 1999.

The Designation is LMG M/99.
HCV
04-21-2009, 08:35 AM
I'm not sure which it replaced(if any).

They had used the H&K Mg M/85 (HK23E) in the 1980s and early 1990s.


but it wasn't the Diemaco since FKP got their Stoners in 1999.

The Designation is LMG M/99.

Excellent. Thanks!

Cheers

HANS
The Dane
04-21-2009, 09:01 AM
Your welcome mate .. ;)
Fallap
05-03-2009, 05:15 PM
It's about bloody time that we get some proper LMG's, those Diemaco LSW's arent the metal worth theyr made of. :/

Any chance that I'll get my hands in one of those, once I start in The Royal Guard next year?
The Dane
05-04-2009, 02:14 PM
Any chance that I'll get my hands in one of those, once I start in The Royal Guard next year?

Depends on if it's chosen, off course.. and how fast they can be produced and delievered.

But i expect a decision from the army this summer.