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Kutuzov
08-17-2008, 12:00 AM
WOW! No offense, but from what I see of the performance of the Russian army in this conflict, one should put some serious thought into this "performance".

These were "front-line" troops, not some reservists. And the Russian Army went in there with junk like T-72Bs and even T-62s. The soldiers look like a rag-tag group. Stealing even unfiroms? Stealing slippers? Stealing banks? Yeah to the victor go the spoils...the slippers.

If this sort of equipment, discipline and performance is indicative of the rest of the Russian army (and these guys in the Caucases should be the most combat-experienced troops and more on the "front-lines" than other units), than I don't see how such an army could ever compare to a western military.

Western trained Gergians got owned big time that explaines alot to me , yes this propably were mostly 58th army conscripts so they performed very well indeed.

1911-a1
08-17-2008, 12:11 AM
Thanks for the info :D

Bruisercruiser
08-17-2008, 12:32 AM
Yes the russian equipment that was used in the conflict is not impressive, and the russian soldier lives in less comfortable conditions than his western counterparts and despite all that, the well equipped, US trained georgians had more casualties, lost equipment, abandoned equipment and fled!

Maybe Russia will spend more money on it's army once the conflict is over.

How well trained the Georgian Army was really isn't an issue here because they were overwhelmed by Russian quantity, not necessary world beating quality. Did you really think Georgia stood a chance at defending their homeland?

ult
08-17-2008, 12:32 AM
As far as I know there is no conscripts in SO. There are 135 regiment of 58th Army which is contract troops only. Not sure for 100%, but seen article about it while ago. Also VDV and GRU professionals only.

About helmets and body armor - they simply don't wear them, don't ask me why. May be because it don't save from AK bullets, but I guess it saves from shell's. In the last few days there was a couple articles in russian press about it, that officers should order their soldiers to wear body armor, as it could minimize casualties.


How well trained the Georgian Army was really isn't an issue here because they were overwhelmed by Russian quantity, not necessary world beating quality. Did you really think Georgia stood a chance at defending their homeland?

In SO and Abkhazia only about 12-15 thousands of Russian soldiers (2-3 days ago). And that was confirmed by US intelligence. Not much compare to 30 thousands of Georgian army and 100 thousands of reservists.

Lokos
08-17-2008, 12:46 AM
As far as I know there is no conscripts in SO. There are 135 regiment of 58th Army which is contract troops only. Not sure for 100%, but seen article about it while ago. Also VDV and GRU professionals only.

That's false. The bulk of the 58th Army is not composed of contract troops. Look at the ORBAT of the 58th. Plenty of conscripts that were deployed to SO. These include men from the 19th Motor Rifle Division, 205th Separate Moto-Rifle Brigade and 136th Guards Separate Moto-Rifle Brigade. The 135th Sep. Moto-Rifle Regiment does not have access to the armored forces evident in SO. And the bulk of the VDV deployment is in Abkhazia, where the VDV troops that destroyed Georgian military infrastructure in Poti deployed from.


How well trained the Georgian Army was really isn't an issue here because they were overwhelmed by Russian quantity, not necessary world beating quality

Also false. As I have said here - and elsewhere (this speculation was validated by US estimates) - the Georgians were not numerically inferior to the Russian forces in-theater. Between the 8th and the 9th, approximately 7-9,000 Russian forces were deployed against two brigades of the Georgian LF (6,000 troops and 60 AFVs) and a separate tank battalion (~60 AFVs). This strength (up to 9,000) was only achieved by constant reinforcement, and does not reflect the actual strength deployed against the Georgians at any given time. That is to say, there were likely fewer than 9,000 RF troops in combat with the Georgian forces at any time prior to the 10th of August. By the 12th, there were likely 12-14,000 Russian servicemen in SO, Abkhazia and Georgia. The sum of Georgia's LF is just above 30,000 troops. In terms of quantity, the disparity your post suggests didn't exist.

L.

Arian
08-17-2008, 12:56 AM
and despite all that, the well equipped, US trained georgians had more casualties, lost equipment, abandoned equipment and fled!


You guys like to throw this around a lot, "US trained". US "trained" them for what it needed them, Iraq. The training didn't involve in the least bit anything to do with frontal militrary confrontation. It taught them how to patrol around in "peackeeping duties". So you can keep saying it all you want, it doesn't make it true. US "trains" Albanian troops too, but only for such things as Iraq duties, essencially training that has no value at all in combat.

As for casualties, 100+ Russians plus probably a few hundred Ossetions, for 200-300 Georgian troops. I wouldn't call that stellar performance on part of the Russian army.

Georgia's army never had a chance, simply because of its size, but I susspect its melting away had more to do with politics in Tbilisi than anything else.


The 58th Army never has been and never will be a first-tier formation in the Russian armed forces. Whilst some (I repeat: SOME) of these men have combat experience in Chechnya, most are, in fact, conscripts who would have little to none. The best Russian formations (those in and around the Moscow MD, the RFE etc) were not used in this conflict. The reason why the 58th still has tanks like T62s in its motor pool is simple; army military-technical organization staff did not believe the existent Caucasian threats warranted the presence of more advanced means (the most advanced T72s, T80s, T90s) or better formations (the 131st Moto-Rifle Brigade, for example, is considered a highly proficient all-professional unit, and only has elements in Abkhazia, not in S. Ossetia or Georgia).

Please use your brain when making statements like the above. Simpletons watch only face-value imagery. Analytical thinkers look deeper. Be more analytical.


Hey there professor. The Russian troops involved were from various units from various regions (including "elite" units stationed further up north that were in the area for training), as well as VDV and Naval troops. The Caucas region is the most tense region, where you have Chechnya, Dagestan, Georgia and all the other things that come with it, Armenia and the rest as well as being the most tense and strategic region where Russian troops are stationed.

Saying that their "elite" troops are around Moscow isn't saying much. Good going to have them aroung Moscow. I'd say these troops in Ossetia these days are more representative of the vast majority of the Russian Army, not those 2-3 units around Moscow for parade purposes. And these units which clearly were "prepared" and "front-line" (becuase if the Caucas isn't the front line, Moscow certain isn't) to react within 2 days of the start of conflict...went in there with ancient equipment looking like they just came out of Afghanistan, with a T-72B Model 1989 being the most modern piece of equipment available, with soldiers that barely wore the same type of unfirom (or shoes, or slippers), with the tactics about as brillient as Grozny 1995 (luckily for the Russians the Georgians were worst). Discipline seems no beter improved than Grozny 1995 either. Stealing uniforms?

T-62s aren't even the issue, because T-72Bs aren't exaclty a leap foreward from there.

The point is, the parades in Moscow seem to hardly represent the state of the Russian military, as this conflict clearly exposed. Saying their best units are in Moscow, is saying that they'r only for show because the vast majority still remains an army out of the 80s. Not just the qeuipment, but the tactics too and the soldiers look like a rag-tag bunch

Arian
08-17-2008, 01:00 AM
And the units with T-62s are contract units. If these guys aren't "front line", then who is? Or do Russians consider as "front line" units only those that look the pritiest for parades in Moscow, but the other 95% of the army that isn't, is just "conscripts which aren't really that important to the big picture". Hmm.

Kutuzov
08-17-2008, 01:07 AM
This is a Russian photos thread. I dont see many photos.

Moriarti
08-17-2008, 01:10 AM
Question - Two of the Soldiers in these pics have a blue band around their helmet. Are they Military Police - or is that marking indicative of something else?

Pics @ FOXNEWS (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,405041,00.html)

ult
08-17-2008, 01:14 AM
As for casualties, 100+ Russians plus probably a few hundred Ossetions, for 200-300 Georgian troops. I wouldn't call that stellar performance on part of the Russian army.
There is no official casualties of georgian army. At least I don't believe them, we talk about saakashvili. The only thing i'm sure is that there about 200 captured. And I guess far more than 200-300 georgian troops were killed.


Question - Two of the Soldiers in these pics have a blue band around their helmet. Are they Military Police - or is that marking indicative of something else?

Pics @ FOXNEWS (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,405041,00.html)
peacekeepers.

Alexandr
08-17-2008, 01:18 AM
Question - Two of the Soldiers in these pics have a blue band around their helmet. Are they Military Police - or is that marking indicative of something else?

Pics @ FOXNEWS (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,405041,00.html)


Thats marking of Peacekeeping Forces,that was presented in SO for 16 years under UN mandate - 500 georgian/500 russian/500 ossetian due to Dagomiss agreement.As well military veciles marked with blue round and words MC - "Миротворческие Силы" - "Peacekeeping Forces"
As well there are same MC presented for 15 years in Abkazia - over 2500 kontingent,but not joint,only Russian.

Lokos
08-17-2008, 01:19 AM
The Russian troops involved were from various units from various regions (including "elite" units stationed further up north that were in the area for training), as well as VDV and Naval troops.

No - all formations involved are from the TC Military District. Of the 42nd MRD two companies of the two Chechen battalions were involved. The VDV forces (one regiment of the 76th Guards Airborne Div; the 104th) were deployed in Abkhazia (and were evident in the destruction of Georgian facilities in Poti). Then there were two battalions from the 33rd Separate Moto-Rifle Brigade. The bulk of the troops involved were from the 136th and 205th MRBs and 19th MRD. That is to say, the 58th Army. And we speak mostly of elements from each (individual regiments and battalions).


The Caucas region is the most tense region, where you have Chechnya, Dagestan, Georgia and all the other things that come with it

Chechnya is held by the 42nd MRD, not the 58th Army. There are MVD and GRU forces in place to tackle internal issues (there are four MVD divisions - the 2nd, 54th, 99th and 100th Operational Designation Divisions - and four separate brigades - the 22nd, 26th, 46th and 102nd brigades - as well as the 15th 'Scythian' OMON Regiment deployed in the NC). The 58th Army is a general purpose, second tier army primarily envisioned to handle problems in a low AFV threat environment. Lots of recon elements, plenty of artillery and enough motorized infantry to get them around.


Saying that their "elite" troops are around Moscow isn't saying much. Good going to have them aroung Moscow. I'd say these troops in Ossetia these days are more representative of the vast majority of the Russian Army, not those 2-3 units around Moscow for parade purposes.

2-3 units? What, exactly, is your perception of the size of the Moscow MD? The 2nd Guards Tamanskaya Moto-Rifle Division is frequently cited as Russia's best unit in that category. But the Moscow MD also disposes of 20th Guards Army (2x Tank Divisions) and 22nd Army (3rd Guards Moto-Rifle Division), 27th Separate Moto-Rifle Brigade, 106th Guards Airborne Div, 98th Guards Airborne Div and very large quantities of aircraft, artillery and rocket forces.

The Moscow MD by size alone is larger than most states' military institutions entire.


And these units which clearly were "prepared" and "front-line" (becuase if the Caucas isn't the front line, Moscow certain isn't) to react within 2 days of the start of conflict...went in there with ancient equipment looking like they just came out of Afghanistan, with a T-72B Model 1989 being the most modern piece of equipment available, with soldiers that barely wore the same type of unfirom (or shoes, or slippers), with the tactics about as brillient as Grozny 1995 (luckily for the Russians the Georgians were worst)

And, pray tell, what were the tactics of the Russians that were as 'brillient' as those used in Grozny 1995?


The point is, the parades in Moscow seem to hardly represent the state of the Russian military, as this conflict clearly exposed. Saying their best units are in Moscow, is saying that they'r only for show because the vast majority still remains an army out of the 80s. Not just the qeuipment, but the tactics too and the soldiers look like a rag-tag bunch

I see. The 'qeuipment' is terrible, the tactics are terrible, the soldiers are rag-tag. I really don't know what that says of the Georgians, who lasted all of two days against such a rabble. Truly, it is a wonder that Russian forces are rated so highly, generally, when military professionals such as yourself are there to present us with such lucid evidence of their lack of combat worthiness.


And the units with T-62s are contract units.

The Russians have enough T72s to outfit the current Russian army three or four times over. The usage of T62s (most likely not by the contracted 135th MRR) tells you... what? I have an answer in mind, but I am curious as to see what a person such as yourself comes up with.

L.

digrar
08-17-2008, 01:59 AM
If you all want this thread locked, and your accounts suspended or banned, keep on going, otherwise, post some pics of Russian Military and keep your comments to yourselves.

machinegun_gogo
08-17-2008, 03:03 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3181/2768692974_a8d1bc45fb_o.jpg
A Russian soldier holds a hand grenade as he rests after digging trenches in Igoeti, northwest of the capital Tbilisi, Georgia, Saturday, Aug. 16, 2008.

calimero2
08-17-2008, 03:27 AM
That's an F-1 by the way.

VitalyVK
08-17-2008, 01:50 PM
New Camo?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/2753775028_7721a6a4c1.jpg?v=0
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theatrum-belli/2753775028/in/set-72157606625660548/

These guys are from 45-th ORP VDV from Moscow region, Their regiment was sent to SO to provide recon missions for VDV troops.

I posted pics with this cammo, they used it for pokazuha

http://www.flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1215119193_g.jpg

edi213009
08-17-2008, 07:03 PM
there was a quote in "Once upon a time in the West":
<<Something to do with death>>

Flamming_Python
08-17-2008, 07:43 PM
Many soldiers would find this war meaningless, in fact most people in Russia and Georgia still have no idea why it happened at all. However, this doesn't imply anything about the actual morale of the Russian forces in Georgia.

Big D
08-17-2008, 08:39 PM
more pictures from Georgia

WARNING contains GRAPHIC images

http://www.navoine.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=551

Andarius-Militarius
08-18-2008, 01:26 AM
Just finished watching "Incident in Square 36-80" Mosfilm Studios 1982. (Russian Cold-War film) It shows Tu-16s, Yak-38s, and Kiev-Class aircraft carriers in action (well sort of).

Its avaliable on GoogleVideo right now. Just google in "Случай в квадрате 36-80".

Overall the film seems similar to the American Cold War films of the 1980s.

Mangol
08-18-2008, 02:39 AM
entertainment in the Russian army.:) violinist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TGezvnCeQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TGezvnCeQ

GazB
08-18-2008, 04:14 AM
Looks like this is one of the older Tunguska, without missiles.


No. The oldest model Tunguska to make service was the 2S6, and it has the same guns but only 4 missiles instead of the normal 8 missiles. It entered service in about 1984 or so. The 2S6M with 8 missiles soon replaced it in service.

Obviously the missiles don't have to be fitted, and it is certainly possible that this might be a specialised model without missiles for the ground support role, but looking at most of the other vehicles being used I would expect this is a standard 2S6M with the missiles not fitted to improve concealment (or very well concealed missiles).


Perhaps the images I saw were simply early models in testing. Now I wish I could find those pictures since they dont seem to be common.

They are missiles, and don't actually have to be fitted for the vehicle to operate. Obviously that limits the vehicle to targets within 4km range, but I really don't see enemy airpower as being a huge threat.


These photos do show the real face of war, just to make some people think twice before raising the "war's flag" to figure out a specific issue.

I agree... so many kids watch cartoons where all the animals in the zoo get together and instead of tearing each other apart they all get together and plan to escape to the wild. Even some adults don't understand that though it is good to be humaine that at the end of the day if it is a fight to the death no rules apply... and that goes for every animal including humans.


These were "front-line" troops, not some reservists. And the Russian Army went in there with junk like T-72Bs and even T-62s.

If they were front line first line troops they would have more modern equipment, especially in regard to their vehicles. The reality is that the Russians knew from last time that the South Ossetians and the Abkhazians could probably manage another stalemate and that Russian forces in the region would be enough to stop the Georgians doing what they tried to do. If they moved their first line troops to the region the US would have a hissy fit about it all being planned in advance. Even now they are claiming this was all a plan by Russia and that Saakashvili fell for their trap. It seems they think it better to consider him a fool for falling into the trap than the total cun| that he actually is for trying to start WWIII.

War in the region basically needed Saakahvili to be a total idiot. The west probably had a better indication he was going to attack than the Russians did. The Russians were no doubt monitoring Georgian forces and their build up and made sure they had sufficient forces to counter those forces. It seems they were both right and ready. Full credit to them. If the Georgians can kill 1,500 civilians in one night how many would be dead by now if the Russians had ignored them?


Yes the russian equipment that was used in the conflict is not impressive, and the russian soldier lives in less comfortable conditions than his western counterparts and despite all that, the well equipped, US trained georgians had more casualties, lost equipment, abandoned equipment and fled!

Maybe Russia will spend more money on it's army once the conflict is over.

Maybe they shouldn't??? Should also mention that the US trained Georgians didn't seem to bother sorting civilian from military target whereas the Russians seem to have actually made an effort in that regard.


That's an F-1 by the way.

Does anyone have pictures and information about the new hand grenades they have. The ones with the impact fuses?
Also for those with inside knowledge are the new grenades popular... they seem so rare. In fact most of the time you only see the under barrel 40mm grenades rather than hand grenades.

The most common new piece of kit in view seems to be the pecheneg LMG.

BTW here is an interesting new Rifle I hadn't seen before:
http://www.kbptula.ru/eng/str/strelk/556a91.htm

TheArmenian
08-18-2008, 05:34 AM
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3576/81793676zt9.jpg

Photo taken on 17 August 2008.

Not far from Novorossisk.

The cruiser MOSKVA

More photos here: http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/alexandertms/view/103048/

Thank you Alexander.

He219
08-18-2008, 08:41 AM
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/3740/610xfb2.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/2315/610xyb9.jpg

A horse driven chart moves past a Russian soldier at a checkpoint in Khurvaleti, near Gori, Georgia, Monday, Aug. 18, 2008. Russian troops and tanks control a wide swath of Georgia, including the country's main east-west highway. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has promised the withdrawal under terms of an EU-backed cease-fire agreement, but how quickly the troops will leave is unclear, as is exactly where they will redeploy
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4669/610xzl6.jpg

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev (L) stands in front of a tank at a World War Two memorial in Kursk August 18, 2008. Medvedev speaking amid the conflict with Georgia, warned on Monday that any further aggression against Russian citizen would face a "crushing response".
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/7162/610xfk8.jpg

A Russian soldier pushes a TV journalist from a checkpoint just outside of the flashpoint city of Gori on August 18, 2008. Russian forces are heading deeper into Georgian territory from the central city of Khashuri despite a pledge to begin a pull-out from the country on Monday, a top Georgian official said.
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/8690/610xxr4.jpg

A Russian soldier stands guard at the gate of a Georgian army base controlled by Russian troops in Senaki, western Georgia, Monday, Aug. 18, 2008. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has promised the withdrawal under terms of an EU-backed cease-fire agreement, but how quickly the troops will leave is unclear, as is exactly where they will redeploy.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9214/610xgd3.jpg

A Russian tank leaves the Senaki Military Base, a Georgian military base now occupied by Russian forces, in Senaki, Western Georgia, August 18, 2008
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/2640/610xww3.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/2959/610xdy0.jpg

A Georgian woman makes her way to her car as a Russian military vehicle maneuvers near the gate of a Georgian army base controlled by Russian forces in Senaki, western Georgia, Monday, Aug. 18, 2008. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has promised the withdrawal under terms of an EU-backed cease-fire agreement, but how quickly the troops will leave is unclear, as is exactly where they will redeploy.

JohnnyWalker
08-18-2008, 11:34 AM
why are there always people who have problems with the way Russia conducts it's warfare against 8th world nations. Why is it some of you guys have an issue that Russia uses old tanks to go against older tanks? Why in the hell would Russia sent T-80's and T-90's into Georgia, if T-72's and T-62's can take out anything that Georgia had to throw at Russia.

In Vietnam and Korea did America use WWII tanks and airplanes to attack the enemy?

HS2000
08-18-2008, 11:59 AM
why are there always people who have problems with the way Russia conducts it's warfare against 8th world nations. Why is it some of you guys have an issue that Russia uses old tanks to go against older tanks? Why in the hell would Russia sent T-80's and T-90's into Georgia, if T-72's and T-62's can take out anything that Georgia had to throw at Russia.

In Vietnam and Korea did America use WWII tanks and airplanes to attack the enemy?

Yes they did:

Korea - F4U Corsair, P-51, B-26, B-29, A-26, M24 Chafee, M26 Pershing, M4 Sherman, M10, M18, M36
Nam - A-26

KoTeMoRe
08-18-2008, 12:12 PM
Yes they did:

Korea - F4U Corsair, P-51, B-26, B-29, A-26, M24 Chafee, M26 Pershing, M4 Sherman, M10, M18, M36
Nam - A-26

Do you realize that all that equipment was still fresh in 1950-1953?

edi213009
08-18-2008, 12:24 PM
lesson no.1:how to crash on a check point:)

http://tv.repubblica.it/copertina/alta-tensione/23149?video

intelligenzija
08-18-2008, 01:26 PM
lesson no.1:how to crash on a check point:)

http://tv.repubblica.it/copertina/alta-tensione/23149?video

They didn't see the cars, its really hard to see something from a bmp :D

marmot
08-18-2008, 02:07 PM
Hi guys this is my first try so forgive me if the photos are a repost.

mannelig
08-18-2008, 02:17 PM
What AT weapon could that be? (Hole in the turret)
http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/18/war_foto/017_war_foto.jpg

KoTeMoRe
08-18-2008, 02:26 PM
What AT weapon could that be? (Hole in the turret)
http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/18/war_foto/017_war_foto.jpg


That's a great shot, turret ring/gap hit maybe a 100mm HEAT from an AT Gun, Konkurs...

Snoshi
08-18-2008, 02:28 PM
I would guess that it was a tank round. Hole very big for the ATGM.

KoTeMoRe
08-18-2008, 02:48 PM
I would guess that it was a tank round. Hole very big for the ATGM.


The Ossetians had T-72s? Then again the Bore diameter of the Konkurs is 135mm and warhead weight of the Konkurs is greater of the 3BK29.

Mangol
08-18-2008, 04:22 PM
changed the video of the day of victory 2008.
this music is better suited
http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8n9ruI9OU
http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8n9ruI9OU

Mormaeglin
08-18-2008, 04:39 PM
Hej, Mangol, Jozhik w tumane on avatar ? ;)

He219
08-18-2008, 04:48 PM
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8616/610xvr1.jpg
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/6/610xcp2.jpg

KoTeMoRe
08-18-2008, 04:55 PM
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8616/610xvr1.jpg
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/6/610xcp2.jpg

Hahaha: Russian answer to Laws of Warfare.p-)

I'm horrible, this war was so senseless, as all wars, but a thousand dead bodies for nothing, I thought that was only possible in Africa (or in the balkansp-)).

entheogen
08-18-2008, 05:11 PM
How about Iraq or Afghanistan, smart-ass ?

RomanS
08-18-2008, 05:14 PM
Politics, OUT OF THIS THREAD PLEASE

NESTOR MAXNO
08-18-2008, 05:18 PM
Hahaha: Russian answer to Laws of Warfare.p-)

I'm horrible, this war was so senseless, as all wars, but a thousand dead bodies for nothing, I thought that was only possible in Africa (or in the balkansp-)).
not Russia start this war and all questions about dead to USA and his satellite Georgia.

RuLavan
08-18-2008, 05:23 PM
The Ossetians had T-72s? Then again the Bore diameter of the Konkurs is 135mm and warhead weight of the Konkurs is greater of the 3BK29.

Clashes between russian and georgian armor was reported...

Abbadon the Despoiler
08-18-2008, 05:32 PM
please comrades, pics or gtfo.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8554/ascg5.jpg

KoTeMoRe
08-18-2008, 05:39 PM
How about Iraq or Afghanistan, smart-ass ?

Chill out friend, just keep in mind I come from the balkans. And Laws of Warfare is an oxymoron.:roll:
¨
ictures indeed. http://www.dhm.de/gifs/sammlungen/bildarchiv/III/puschkin/5508.jpg

tomahawk6
08-18-2008, 06:59 PM
Is this camo pattern called Partizan ? Also I have seen a number of different camo patterns worn by Russian troops. Whats the most common and why the lack of a uniform camo ? Thx

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/7816/200881612405990b2eda74div3.jpg

entheogen
08-18-2008, 07:02 PM
tomahawk6
thats KZS/KZM.
Flora is most common one.
Uniformity is up to unit's SOP as far as I know.

KoTeMoRe
08-18-2008, 07:06 PM
Is this camo pattern called Partizan ? Also I have seen a number of different camo patterns worn by Russian troops. Whats the most common and why the lack of a uniform camo ? Thx

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/7816/200881612405990b2eda74div3.jpg


No the Partizan camouflage pattern is the one loosely derived from the Erbsenmuster one.

http://www.soviet-propaganda.com/products_data/pictures/partizan-1.jpg

The one you're looking at is advertized as the Sumrak...?!

tomahawk6
08-18-2008, 08:01 PM
Thank You for the info.:)

1071
08-18-2008, 08:05 PM
pics, no comments...

Kap2406
08-18-2008, 08:26 PM
Hi guys this is my first try so forgive me if the photos are a repost.

How recent is the first photo of "Parrot" (попугай)?
The military is funded better now, but I still can't believe they let planes fly abroad with such rundown paint job. By the way my father helped to paint the original camo (the only camo'd An-22) back in 1980's when he was stationed in Tver.

planeman
08-18-2008, 10:36 PM
http://www.dhm.de/gifs/sammlungen/bildarchiv/III/puschkin/5508.jpg
Comrade Artem's dastardly plan to hold the world to ransom was going to plan....

GazB
08-18-2008, 11:18 PM
I presume you are referring to the RGN (left) and RGO?

Those are the ones... thanks.

The number of stories I have read from WWII where the brave Soviet soldiers picked the enemies grenades and hurled them back always made me wonder why more grenades do not have impact fuses.

Thanks Calimero2, and also TheArmenian for that wonderful photo of the Moskva.


Hi guys this is my first try so forgive me if the photos are a repost.

Your first post here and you post two pictures of C0cks!... (sorry... bad joke... the NATO codename for the An-22 is C0CK.)


What AT weapon could that be? (Hole in the turret)

Sorry, I must be blind but all I see is a large impact point with no penetration and with radial impact points around it. To me it looks like a large calibre tank round that was HE FRAG. The radial pattern of impacts from the fragments near the nose of the projectile as the nose crushes into the turret on impact.


By the way my father helped to paint the original camo (the only camo'd An-22) back in 1980's when he was stationed in Tver.

Lucky guy. Can only imagine what it must sound like to hear the worlds largest turboprop aircraft take off...

ult
08-19-2008, 01:19 AM
Georgian cobra, probably disabled by heavy sniper rifle. Any guesses? It killed 3 soldiers in a row, injured the driver and ricocheted from control panel.
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0107.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0118.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0116.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0115.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0119.jpg
source (http://krig42.livejournal.com/118266.html)

KoTeMoRe
08-19-2008, 02:12 AM
Georgian cobra, probably disabled by heavy sniper rifle. Any guesses? It killed 3 soldiers in a row, injured the driver and ricocheted from control panel.
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0107.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0118.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0116.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0115.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0119.jpg
source (http://krig42.livejournal.com/118266.html)

Hum there are traces of a splash at impact zone, looks more like an old RPG or at best KPV AP-T round.

asch
08-19-2008, 02:15 AM
Georgian cobra, probably disabled by heavy sniper rifle. Any guesses? It killed 3 soldiers in a row, injured the driver and ricocheted from control panel.
source (http://krig42.livejournal.com/118266.html)
holy shyte! that's one great shot.
ASVK-94 maybe. heard that first batch already supplied to Army.

Jippo
08-19-2008, 03:29 AM
And Laws of Warfare is an oxymoron.:roll:


Just FYI many armies in the world follow Laws of land Warfare very strictly. That is no BS.

Jippo
08-19-2008, 03:32 AM
The Ossetians had T-72s? Then again the Bore diameter of the Konkurs is 135mm and warhead weight of the Konkurs is greater of the 3BK29.

Tanks APDSFS, I think one can actually see a mark left by one of the fins on the engine cover.

Andarius-Militarius
08-19-2008, 03:55 AM
from parovoz.com

BTRs on train (2007)
http://i33.*******.com/llfh2.jpg

MTLBs on train (2007)
http://i37.*******.com/168y3pt.jpg

This pic was taken in August 2008 and posted today. So these BMRs might have been sent to Georgia.

http://i37.*******.com/28o29x.jpg

mannelig
08-19-2008, 04:57 AM
from parovoz.com
This pic was taken in August 2008 and posted today. So these BMRs might have been sent to Georgia.

http://i37.*******.com/28o29x.jpg

What are these the first 2 vehicles? Some strange turrets.

calimero2
08-19-2008, 05:02 AM
That's an airborne artillery unit: two 1V119 command/forward observer vehicles, then five 2S9 "Nona" 120mm mortars and then another two 1V119's.

mannelig
08-19-2008, 05:18 AM
That's an airborne artillery unit: two 1V119 command/forward observer vehicles, then five 2S9 "Nona" 120mm mortars and then another two 1V119's.

Thx!

Captured Georgian M-4s
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/7596/post1219123589iw8.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2218/post1219123612lz8.jpg

kinmid
08-19-2008, 05:23 AM
Regarding the Cobra.
There are two visible holes on the hull, one left on the rear side (the one shown from the interior as well) and one right just above-behind the rear right wheel.



HAVE FUN !!!

calimero2
08-19-2008, 05:46 AM
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0119.jpg


Note in the background the T-72 SIM-1 and a couple of BMP-1's with Shkval turrets. I'd love to see more pictures from that display.

Dark Avenger
08-19-2008, 06:07 AM
Hopefully some will end up on display at the Kubinka museum for the viewing pleasure of armor afficionados worldwide.

KoTeMoRe
08-19-2008, 06:53 AM
Just FYI many armies in the world follow Laws of land Warfare very strictly. That is no BS.




Edit: erased Look at your PM box...

GazB
08-19-2008, 07:10 AM
Just FYI many armies in the world follow Laws of land Warfare very strictly. That is no BS.

Indeed they do. Many hold themselves to a higher standard than they hold their enemies.
The problem arises however when some demand other adhere to rules and laws they never signed up for. Recently on TV they had a news report showing South Koreans examining the remains of what has been estimated to be tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of suspected communist sympathisers executed by South Korean forces in Seoul when it was anticipated the communists were coming. These executions were said to have been carried out with the knowledge of US and UN personel and some photographic evidence was shown of some of the victims bound ready to be shot and have their bodies dumped in old disused mine shafts.

Obviously a line has to be drawn somewhere about what is OK and what is not OK. The reality is that that line is not fixed and it depends who you are fighting, why you are fighting, what your situation is and 1,000 other factors. The reality is that you won't use chemical weapons against an enemy that is better equipped than you with chemical weapons.

Some pics:

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/expo/maks07/said/pvo/ppru/P1020112_DCE.JPG

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/expo/imds2007/DSC_1591.JPG

Fliphead
08-19-2008, 09:24 AM
Note in the background the T-72 SIM-1 and a couple of BMP-1's with Shkval turrets. I'd love to see more pictures from that display.
that´s a Cobra run over a mine i guess:roll:

Stonewall71
08-19-2008, 09:54 AM
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3576/81793676zt9.jpg

Photo taken on 17 August 2008.

Not far from Novorossisk.

The cruiser MOSKVA

More photos here: http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/alexandertms/view/103048/

Thank you Alexander.


I read somewhere the MOSKVA was hit by gunfire , can you confirm it?

If yes, how serious was the damage?

Thx

San4es60
08-19-2008, 10:24 AM
I read somewhere the MOSKVA was hit by gunfire , can you confirm it?

If yes, how serious was the damage?

Thx

No, just another bullet in the information war. Moskva was in Novorossiysk, georgian boat wsa destroyed by "Malahit" rocket from "Mirag".

marmot
08-19-2008, 10:29 AM
How recent is the first photo of "Parrot" (попугай)?
The military is funded better now, but I still can't believe they let planes fly abroad with such rundown paint job. By the way my father helped to paint the original camo (the only camo'd An-22) back in 1980's when he was stationed in Tver.

This photo is from Bratislava (Slovakia), and it is likely made within
last five years. The camo on "Antheus" is just plainly awful. I like
soviet oldschool "Aero flot" paintscheme, even on military transport
planes.

P.S Nice avatar :)

ult
08-19-2008, 11:23 AM
I read somewhere the MOSKVA was hit by gunfire , can you confirm it?

If yes, how serious was the damage?

Thx

http://forum.sevastopol.info/viewtopic.php?f=22&p=1912695#p1912695

Залез с телефона на форум. И обалдел. Какие повреждения? Раненых и убитых у нас нет- это ложь. Когда мы вернемся самим хотелось бы знать. 18 точно не придем- разве что "Москва" возможно. Так что никакой паники, дамы и господа.

Here is a post of medical officer from "Moskva". There is no casualties in Black fleet, so this is all BS. And he don't know when they will come back to Sevastopol.

TheArmenian
08-19-2008, 11:40 AM
I read somewhere the MOSKVA was hit by gunfire , can you confirm it?

If yes, how serious was the damage?

Thx

The Photo of the Moskva is dated 17 August 2008. After the battle.


No visible damage.

Constantin
08-19-2008, 12:17 PM
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/3.jpg
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/4.jpg
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/12.jpg
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/15.jpg
http://www.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/1_Jpg.htm

TheArmenian
08-19-2008, 12:18 PM
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/WORLD/europe/08/19/georgia.russia.war/art.humvee.ap.jpg
The Russian forces seized HUMVEE vehicles in Poti.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7458/63d1ef183ad59ceb11cd428sv9.jpg
At a checkpoint, they arrested and disarmed 20 Georgian soldiers who were, later on, handed back to Georgian authorities.

KoTeMoRe
08-19-2008, 12:30 PM
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/3.jpg
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/4.jpg
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/12.jpg
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/15.jpg
http://www.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/1_Jpg.htm

Biathlon handle/**** on that bolt?

Mousepad
08-19-2008, 12:30 PM
that´s a Cobra run over a mine i guess:roll:

No it was hit by Russian antimatter rifle, and it was quite lucky or thery calculated shot i think it was thery calculated lucky shot (right in the stitch between armour plates) coz those rifles are not conscript issued. Shot killed 3 infantrymen inside and wounded a driver, after that Cobra crashed from the road, and destroyed it suspension. Guys from russian repair yard said this APC have quite weak legs for military use.

marmot
08-19-2008, 12:50 PM
No it was hit by Russian antimatter rifle, and it was quite lucky or thery calculated shot i think it was thery calculated lucky shot (right in the stitch between armour plates) coz those rifles are not conscript issued.

But it looks like the other round that hit the fender also penetrated -
so it probably did not really matter that they hit a seam line in
between armour plates.

What sort of wheapon was it, in your opinion? The obvious answer
would be a KPVT, but again it normally fires series not single shots...

Jippo
08-19-2008, 12:52 PM
Anti-material rifle broke the front suspension and killed 3 men in single shot. Very interesting. ;)

Seriously speaking the hit in the rear looks a lot more like a heat hit. Shotgun type spray on the inside instead of a single hole by an AP bullet.

Peresvet
08-19-2008, 12:54 PM
Georgians with their eyes covered sit atop of a Russian armored personnel carrier while being detained by Russian troops in the Black Sea port city of Poti, western Georgia, Tuesday, Aug. 19, 2008. (spiegel.de)

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1274968,00.jpg
© AP Photo/Bela Szandelszky

Exchange captured:

Georgians
http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00h2qh9k.jpg
© AP Photo/Darko Bandic/Scanpix

The Russian pilot
http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00h2pcas.jpg
© AP Photo/Darko Bandic/Scanpix

Peresvet
08-19-2008, 01:29 PM
http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00h267gw.jpg
© AP Photo/Darko Bandic

http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00h24be3.jpg
© AP Photo/Bela Szandelszky

http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00h2561c.jpg
© AP Photo/РИА-Новости, Владимир Родионов

http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00h2ar76.jpg
© *******/Scanpix

VitalyVK
08-19-2008, 01:29 PM
MoD wrote on official website that the exchanged 15 georgians to 5 russians. 1:3 :)
I'm glad our guys came home safe

PVJ
08-19-2008, 01:33 PM
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/3.jpg
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/4.jpg
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/12.jpg
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/15.jpg
http://www.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/1_Jpg.htm

I assume the first 1 is an AN-94, but what are the smg and sniper rifle under it?

ult
08-19-2008, 01:39 PM
I assume the first 1 is an AN-94, but what are the smg and sniper rifle under it?
From top to bottom.
KS-K, "Vityaz-SN" (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg97-e.htm) , SV-99 (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn57-e.htm)

TheArmenian
08-19-2008, 01:43 PM
From top to bottom.
KS-K, "Vityaz-SN" (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg97-e.htm) , SV-99 (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn57-e.htm)

First time I hear it called KS-K.
It was refered to as the Saiga-12S-isp30

m.i.t
08-19-2008, 01:45 PM
after that Cobra crashed from the road, and destroyed it suspension. Guys from russian repair yard said this APC have quite weak legs for military use.


Cobra has same HUMWEE chassis and suspension..

ult
08-19-2008, 01:47 PM
First time I hear it called KS-K.
It was refered to as the Saiga-12S-isp30
Well, saiga - civilian rifle, ksk more like military carbine.
http://www.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/19/izhmash/ksk.htm

Mousepad
08-19-2008, 01:49 PM
Anti-material rifle broke the front suspension and killed 3 men in single shot. Very interesting. ;)

Seriously speaking the hit in the rear looks a lot more like a heat hit. Shotgun type spray on the inside instead of a single hole by an AP bullet.

I'm not strong with English - HEAT, HEAP etc

you mean HEAT is something like - 3ВБМ17 ermm бронебойно-подкалиберный (armor piercing undercaliber)? it's kinda overkill for an Armoured car

and penetration outside and inside is to clean for кумулятивный (cumulative - spelling) round

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/mousepad_2008/IMG_0118.jpg
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/mousepad_2008/IMG_0116.jpg
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/mousepad_2008/IMG_0115.jpg

No traces of fire inside. And suspension was damaged in crash, not by AP hit, it's what recovery team clamed.

Sorr for derail

Sorr again it's in this tread http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=139815&page=4

Mousepad
08-19-2008, 01:56 PM
Cobra has same HUMWEE chassis and suspension..

Do they have same weight? and do they have chasis and suspension made on the same plant. coz there is German BMW and there is Chinese BMW copy.

m.i.t
08-19-2008, 02:03 PM
Cobra have armoured humwee basics with assistance AM corporation...

its not imitation...:)

am.com

Both of them use same gear engine drive and wheel system...

l think hole seems large...İt could be BMP-2 30mm anti-armour round...

Mousepad
08-19-2008, 02:10 PM
Cobra have armoured humwee basics with assistance AM corporation...

its not imitation...:)

am.com

Both of them use same gear engine drive and wheel system...

Maybe, but control of metal used, and control of quality, may differ in Cobra case.

It does not look like it was hit by mine or arty, it looks like suspension just gave up under stress

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/mousepad_2008/IMG_0119.jpg

jus
08-19-2008, 02:18 PM
and fingers broke them correctly, long time not able to shoot :)

Mousepad
08-19-2008, 02:21 PM
l think hole seems large...İt could be BMP-2 30mm anti-armour round...

My thought too, but guy that took those pictures, clamed that it was shot by Anti-material rifle.

Jippo
08-19-2008, 02:24 PM
I'm not strong with English - HEAT, HEAP etc

you mean HEAT is something like - 3ВБМ17 ermm бронебойно-подкалиберный (armor piercing undercaliber)? it's kinda overkill for an Armoured car
[/url]

Armor piercing undercaliber would be APDS.

I mean HEAT like in 3BK-21 or RPG-7, i.e. explosive projectile with formed explosive. I say this because the formed jet will start to break very soon (especially if it hits something), and in the dashboard there are marks in quite large area even though the penetration hole is very small (like it is with such projectiles). Also on the exterior you can see marks of the projectile shrapnel around the penetration.

PVJ
08-19-2008, 02:33 PM
So what is the KS-K or saiga-12s-isp30, whatever name it is, used for? special forces, CT, or is it some experimental stuff? Last i heard Russian military was ordering AN-94s to replace older rifles

marmot
08-19-2008, 03:00 PM
Armor piercing undercaliber would be APDS.

I mean HEAT like in 3BK-21 or RPG-7, i.e. explosive projectile with formed explosive. I say this because the formed jet will start to break very soon (especially if it hits something), and in the dashboard there are marks in quite large area even though the penetration hole is very small (like it is with such projectiles). Also on the exterior you can see marks of the projectile shrapnel around the penetration.

Guys, the Cobra obviously wasn't hit by a HEAT (russ. "kumulativnyj",
shaped charge) munition. Look at the uneven edges of the hole -
when HEAT round is involved, the edges are kind of "melted", smooth.

It is not a tank/artillery kinetic energy round, KER
(russ. "podkalibernyj") either, since it would break through both
walls of the vehicle.

It is either a single shot from a KPVT or some very powerful sniper rifle,
of a caliber over 12mm, IMHO.

I would also suspect this guy, PTRS-41 if it is still in use :)

TheArmenian
08-19-2008, 03:07 PM
So what is the KS-K or saiga-12s-isp30, whatever name it is, used for? special forces, CT, or is it some experimental stuff? Last i heard Russian military was ordering AN-94s to replace older rifles

The KS-K (Saiga-12S Exp-1-30) is a smoothbore firearm (shotgun) meant to be used by special forces/antiterror forces/police etc. it is not an army rifle.

Here is a video from the manufacturer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XDNvSXP8W0

Jippo
08-19-2008, 03:08 PM
KPV would make just one bullet hole in the dashboard, it doesn't fragment as the bullet is a hardened steel penetrator with a jacket. Dash and the seat show mark of fragments, not penetrator solid. Also KPV bullet wouldn't cause the visible shrapnel damage outside.

HEAT hole isn't necessarily very smooth:
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/heat/x_heat_pen.jpg

I think you are wrong.

marmot
08-19-2008, 04:21 PM
KPV would make just one bullet hole in the dashboard, it doesn't fragment as the bullet is a hardened steel penetrator with a jacket. Dash and the seat show mark of fragments, not penetrator solid. Also KPV bullet wouldn't cause the visible shrapnel damage outside.

HEAT hole isn't necessarily very smooth:
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/heat/x_heat_pen.jpg

I think you are wrong.

So what do you think it is? HEAT?

Shrapnel marks from inside might have been caused by the armour
splinters.

Shrapnel marks from outside are not that well visible. If there are some,
what is the explanation?

What is the diameter of the hole anyhow?

Ronguild
08-19-2008, 04:27 PM
and fingers broke them correctly, long time not able to shoot :)

In the middle age the french and the brits used to cut the archer fingers ... To prevent them being soldiers again.
The broken finger is modern version, but still is a shame.

Unifil 37
08-19-2008, 06:33 PM
In the middle age the french and the brits used to cut the archer fingers ... To prevent them being soldiers again.
The broken finger is modern version, but still is a shame.


That,s just dumb and a shame!!!!!!!!

Undo
08-19-2008, 08:51 PM
All is well - hope to plan a visit in Oct-Nov. Hope Friday finds you well

P.S. I thought you were banned p-)

Me? Banned? Never. Just haven't had a good pic to post in a while. Itchin' to go get some, though.

Hello He. Site remains outstanding!

StukaJr
08-19-2008, 08:57 PM
Me? Banned? Never. Just haven't had a good pic to post in a while. Itchin' to go get some, though.

Hello He. Site remains outstanding!

I was joking - I know you are all important man with better things to do :)

Codazo
08-19-2008, 09:54 PM
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/3310/610xkm1.jpg are these VDV or arethey just regular army, cuz from what I see there are a lot of soldiers in older gear and some in what looks like more modern gear,and a nother Q I've got what looks to me like ("klmk"?) camo is still in use, lots of soldiers in that pattern are thye some sort of recon teams? thanks.

He219
08-19-2008, 10:14 PM
Yeah, I was wondering about those too.
Very baggy and interesting pattern too ..
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/4518/610xyt6.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/3310/610xkm1.jpg

Russian soldiers take position at the Black Sea port city of Poti, western Georgia, Tuesday, Aug. 19, 2008. Russian troops entered the port of Poti on Tuesday to take US military equipment left behind after a joint Georgian, US military exercise.
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/4122/610xjv0.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7940/610xoc2.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/121/610xaj0.jpg

Russian soldiers in a armored personnel carrier tow away a US-built Humvee, in the Black Sea port city of Poti, western Georgia, Tuesday, Aug. 19, 2008. Russian troops entered the port of Poti Tuesday, to remove military equipment left behind after a joint Georgian, US military exercise.
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1971/610xlg1.jpg

Russian soldiers drive a US-made military vehicle, after Russian troops removed it from the Black Sea port city of Poti, western Georgia, Tuesday, Aug. 19, 2008
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/714/610xhq2.jpg
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7623/610xgv9.jpg
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3996/610xjx0.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/4734/610xgv0.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7496/610xti9.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6442/610xrv0.jpg

Georgians with their eyes covered sit atop of a Russian armored personnel carrier while being detained by Russian troops in the Black Sea port city of Poti, western Georgia, Tuesday, Aug. 19, 2008. Russian troops entered the port of Poti on Tuesday to detain Georgian people and to loot US military equipment left behind after a joint Georgian, US military exercise. The movements of Russian forces in Georgia raised questions about whether Russia was fulfilling its side of the cease-fire intended to end the short but intense fighting between Georgians, Russians and its allies
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/5255/610xzz9.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/8738/610xsh7.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/5994/610xbw1.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7756/610xqa7.jpg

Russian servicemen atop an armoured vehicle guard blindfolded Georgian servicemen in the city of Senaki, August 19, 2008. Georgia accused Russian forces of entering the oil shipment port of Poti on the Black Sea and detaining 20 Georgian police officers. A ******* cameraman saw several men blindfolded and placed in Russian armoured personnel carriers (APCs), which then headed east to the town of Senaki
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6964/610xrn8.jpg

Russian soldiers on a military vehicle travel on a main road that leads to River Enguri, which is on the border of breakaway region of Abkhazia and Georgia, 3 km from the western Georgian city of Zugdidi August 19, 2008
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3125/610xrd5.jpg
Is that a Serb or Orthodox handsign?

Russian soldiers on a military vehicle travel on a main road leads to the River Enguri which is on the border of breakaway region of Abkhazia and Georgia, 3 km (1.86 miles) from the western Georgian city of Zugdidi, August 19, 2008
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5471/610xdg0.jpg
Synthetic sock RPK, first I've seen ..

Russian soldier stands guard at a checkpoint in the outskirts of Gori, northwest of the capital Tbilisi, Georgia, Monday, Aug. 18, 2008.
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6816/610xrf3.jpg

Russian soldiers sit as they wait for orders to leave their position outside the Georgian village of Ruisi, some 12 km (7 miles) west of Gori August 19, 2008. A column of Russian tanks and armoured vehicles left the strategic Georgian town of Gori on Tuesday, but NATO said it was freezing contacts with Moscow until all Russian forces were out of the Black Sea state
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9575/610xqx9.jpg

Russian soldiers sit as they wait for orders to leave their position outside the Georgian village of Ruisi, some 12 km (7.45 miles) west of Gori August 19, 2008. A column of Russian tanks and armoured vehicles left the Georgian town of Gori on Tuesday, but Russian officials said the main withdrawal demanded by the West would not happen for three more days.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/Lancero1/agosto1/20080819163753ENLUS0145685312191638.jpg

An elderly Georgian man shows his documents to a Russian army officer in Gori, 19 August 2008.

3rdMillhouse
08-19-2008, 10:16 PM
http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00h267gw.jpg

Damn, that PKM is clean and well cared that looks as it had just came out of the production line.

Codazo
08-19-2008, 10:36 PM
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5471/610xdg0.jpg
Synthetic sock RPK, first I've seen ..

I think it's an rpk 74 ... I've seen pics of it in the Cyprus army thread . I'm not 100% sure.

VUCICEVIC
08-19-2008, 10:38 PM
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3125/610xrd5.jpg
Is that a Serb or Orthodox handsign?



It can be both...we Serbs use it,but that three fingers salute is simbol for father,son and holy spirit-the orthodox trinity

Lt-Col A. Tack
08-19-2008, 10:38 PM
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/Lancero1/agosto1/20080819163753ENLUS0145685312191638.jpg

Is this part of a crackdown on looters? :roll:

He219
08-19-2008, 10:44 PM
Thanks for the respones.

Damn, that PKM is clean and well cared that looks as it had just came out of the production line.
I think it's been established to be of recent Bulgarian production from captured Georgian origin.

asch
08-19-2008, 10:55 PM
Thanks for the respones.

I think it's been established to be of recent Bulgarian production from captured Georgian origin.
it's a big no-no to use trophy weapon. at least, as i've been told.

Undo
08-19-2008, 11:31 PM
Standard boots...nothing Georgian or Russian about them. Easily acquired in Russia.Most of the photos show the other Russian soldiers with same pattern. You could just as easily assert that the Georgian is wearing Russian boots.

GazB
08-19-2008, 11:34 PM
It is either a single shot from a KPVT or some very powerful sniper rifle,
of a caliber over 12mm, IMHO.

This simply looks like a 12.7mm full calibre AP hit. Most of the Russian 12.7mm armour piercing rounds have an incendiary component.

They were likely fired from the http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn05-e.htm SVN-98, the KVSK http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn50-e.htm, or most likely the http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn60-e.htm OSV-96, the latter being the only in service AMR I have seen the Russians use in service.


In the middle age the french and the brits used to cut the archer fingers ... To prevent them being soldiers again.
The broken finger is modern version, but still is a shame.

That is the origin of the insult of raising two fingers to show the V sign. (As opposed to when you hold up two fingers but show the other person your palm instead of the back of your hand... which is a sign of peace). The two finger insult was the signal the Brits presented to the French at the battle of Agincourt (spelling) to show them they had won and still had their draw fingers.


That,s just dumb and a shame!!!!!!!!

British Archers slaughtered thousands of enemy in every battle. The insurance of cutting off their fingers of Prisoners was to prevent them doing it again after they were released. They could have simply treated them the same way snipers have generally been treated in war, or operators of flame throwers, or downed bomber crews that land too close to the city they have just fire bombed and levelled.

Constantin
08-19-2008, 11:37 PM
It can be both...we Serbs use it,but that three fingers salute is simbol for father,son and holy spirit-the orthodox trinity
I think it's just viktory symbol

StukaJr
08-20-2008, 12:27 AM
and fingers broke them correctly, long time not able to shoot :)

Finger splints are for small fractures and breaks - debilitating bone snaps require full on hand cast. Broken fingers that require a splint take about 2-3 weeks to heal. Some of those wounds will take longer to heal and so is fixing moral and psychological damage of being captured. One can also fire weapon with left hand or middle finger - especially select fire weapons. In US, bump-firing is a National past time and is a middle finger art p-)

That said, two men with broken index fingers and the rest hiding their hands is a bit of a coincidence :| Then again, what is the likelyhood of two men in the same room having the same birthday?

VUCICEVIC
08-20-2008, 01:13 AM
I think it's just viktory symbol

the victory simbol is two finger salute (v as victory) ,this is simbol of orthodox power

Mr.Woland
08-20-2008, 01:32 AM
I think it's just viktory symbol
It is easiest way to identify you friends from the enemy in fight.
Sometimes it tied on one leg and one arm. Maybe on different sides of a body.

Jippo
08-20-2008, 01:33 AM
So what do you think it is? HEAT?

Shrapnel marks from inside might have been caused by the armour
splinters.

Shrapnel marks from outside are not that well visible. If there are some,
what is the explanation?

What is the diameter of the hole anyhow?

In my picture is a 3BK31 penetration from here:
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/

penetration distance in pic is 80cm, so you can calculate the diameter from the pic.

In case of the Cobra penetration it is likely RPG-7. Marks on the exterior of the armor come from the shell of grenade which splinters when it explodes in front of the armor. Thus it leaves concentric radial splinter pattern on the armor that is hit (like in the pic). If the armor was penetrated by a "bullet" the fragments would travel away from the armor, not towards it.

Ronguild
08-20-2008, 01:36 AM
That is the origin of the insult of raising two fingers to show the V sign. (As opposed to when you hold up two fingers but show the other person your palm instead of the back of your hand... which is a sign of peace). The two finger insult was the signal the Brits presented to the French at the battle of Agincourt (spelling) to show them they had won and still had their draw fingers.


Right spelling is AZINCOURT (25th october 1415, north of France).



British Archers slaughtered thousands of enemy in every battle. The insurance of cutting off their fingers of Prisoners was to prevent them doing it again after they were released. They could have simply treated them the same way snipers have generally been treated in war, or operators of flame throwers, or downed bomber crews that land too close to the city they have just fire bombed and levelled.

One point for you.

GazB
08-20-2008, 02:21 AM
One point for you.

Not suggesting that cutting off fingers is nice, but they could simply have killed them. Even worse there was one leader from ancient time (name escapes me at the moment) who ordered that the enemy prisoners be lined up and each prisoner was blinded except the tenth prisoner in the row. He only had one eye gouged out so he could lead the other 9 home with the 10 men forming a line one arm on the guy in front of them...

Imagine the implications of all your young strong men coming back to your village 9 out of 10 blind and the one that can see with only one eye. Could be considered a fate worse than death perhaps?

ggk
08-20-2008, 02:40 AM
Not suggesting that cutting off fingers is nice, but they could simply have killed them. Even worse there was one leader from ancient time (name escapes me at the moment) who ordered that the enemy prisoners be lined up and each prisoner was blinded except the tenth prisoner in the row. He only had one eye gouged out so he could lead the other 9 home with the 10 men forming a line one arm on the guy in front of them...

Imagine the implications of all your young strong men coming back to your village 9 out of 10 blind and the one that can see with only one eye. Could be considered a fate worse than death perhaps?

one of byzentine emperor...Basil ..somethin...i forgot.

KoTeMoRe
08-20-2008, 02:56 AM
one of byzentine emperor...Basil ..somethin...i forgot.

"Standart" Roman retaliatory procedure. Decimation...with a twist. The Roman applied that to both captives and their own men for discipline purposes.

cromaster
08-20-2008, 03:11 AM
It can be both...we Serbs use it,but that three fingers salute is simbol for father,son and holy spirit-the orthodox trinity

A question for my Serbian friend:
Is he a Serb?

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh125/tenen95/poglavnik.jpg

Mormaeglin
08-20-2008, 03:17 AM
From what I can read it seems that it is Croatian newspaper ;)

cromaster
08-20-2008, 03:27 AM
Yes. I wanted to say that someone before Serbs used that sign. It doesn't have to be only orthodox sign.

Xaito
08-20-2008, 03:36 AM
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/Lancero1/agosto1/20080819163753ENLUS0145685312191638.jpg

Is this part of a crackdown on looters? :roll:

more importantly the guy in the background has an AS VAL :)
I don't think they're from the 58th. - anybody an idea who these guys are?

Andarius-Militarius
08-20-2008, 05:13 AM
Does anybody know what type or armored car this is?

http://i36.*******.com/24eqsz7.jpg

photo taken in Chechnya 2003 or 2004.

mannelig
08-20-2008, 05:46 AM
GAZ-3934, based on the chassis of the GAZ-3937 "Vodnik". Can also be fitted with BTR type machine gun turret (GAZ-39344). Nice find!



Is it like a police version of Vodnik?

calimero2
08-20-2008, 05:49 AM
Sort of. There is a cash-carrier version SIAM and a version OMON for internal security troops (which is very probably the one shown). The GAZ-3934 has lighter armour than the Vodnik.

RuLavan
08-20-2008, 06:42 AM
i think the guys that took humvees and are riding on btr are from Batman brigade,as Roman called them some days ago:):)
No, emblem on BTR: "MC" - миротворческие силы (peacekeepers) :roll:

103
08-20-2008, 06:55 AM
...Even worse there was one leader from ancient time (name escapes me at the moment) who ordered that the enemy prisoners be lined up and each prisoner was blinded except the tenth prisoner in the row...

http://web2.airmail.net/uthman/byzantine.html
It was Roman emperor Basil II.
About 15000 Bulgarian soldiers were captured in one battle. Normal practice then was to free POWs after the war, but this time all were blinded, just one man in each hundred was left with one eye only to lead the column back.
Basil II was furious another part of his forces was annihilated in another battle.
Sorry for the offtopic.

TheArmenian
08-20-2008, 09:10 AM
CIS COUNTRIES HOLD MILITARY EXERCISE IN ARMENIA

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2113/610xbb2.jpg


Moscow, 18 August: More than 1,000 Russian servicemen are taking part in the Rubezh-2008 command-staff exercise held by the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) in Armenia, Col German Zhitenev, spokesman of the Ground Troops information service, told RIA-Novosti of Monday [18 August]. "This exercise is special in that it is being held in the Caucasus rather than in the Central Asian region. Its participants will train in giving military and military-technical assistance to Armenia in case of aggression against this country. The exercise's concept is hypothetical, however it takes into consideration the military-political and military-strategic situation that is taking shape in the region," the agency was told. Units of Armenia's Ground Troops as wells as servicemen from Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan as part of task force are taking part in the exercise. "The drill in Armenia is the third stage of the Rubezh-2008 joint CSTO exercise, which started on 18 August. The first stage was held in Armenia is early July, the second at the CSTO HQ in Moscow in late July. The exercise will end at a test range in Armenia on 22 August," Zhitenev added.


Source: http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg241279.html (http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg241279.html)

Finarvas
08-20-2008, 09:33 AM
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/3310/610xkm1.jpg are these VDV or arethey just regular army, cuz from what I see there are a lot of soldiers in older gear and some in what looks like more modern gear,and a nother Q I've got what looks to me like ("klmk"?) camo is still in use, lots of soldiers in that pattern are thye some sort of recon teams? thanks.

That is the SPOSN "VDV" oversuit. The camouflage is based of the Danish M/84 pattern.

Ronguild
08-20-2008, 09:44 AM
Sort of. There is a cash-carrier version SIAM and a version OMON for internal security troops (which is very probably the one shown). The GAZ-3934 has lighter armour than the Vodnik.

The "OMON" version you are talking about is different (mainly firing ports added) of the one depicted (during the 9th may parade IMO) and is called SPM-2.

Regards.

VUCICEVIC
08-20-2008, 09:50 AM
Yes. I wanted to say that someone before Serbs used that sign. It doesn't have to be only orthodox sign.

The first man who shown the three finger salute was Milos Obrenovic,it can be seen on picture by Paja Jovanovic representing the takovo uprising,that event happend 1813. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takovo_Uprising) and the picture is from 1898.

You can show that sign as the number of something,but as salute it is an orhodox simbol...

VUCICEVIC
08-20-2008, 09:54 AM
as an explanation read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-finger_salute_%28Serbian%29)

VitalyVK
08-20-2008, 10:16 AM
The "OMON" version you are talking about is different (mainly firing ports added) of the one depicted (during the 9th may parade IMO) and is called SPM-2.

Regards.

SPM-2 is based on GAZ Tigr chassis

Arian
08-20-2008, 11:18 AM
Destroyed Russian BMD
http://www.rusrep.ru/images/online/153743_img/pic31.jpg

sosed
08-20-2008, 12:37 PM
Russia sends first pantsirs to foreign customers. Any news about deliveries of pantsirs to russian army?

1911-a1
08-20-2008, 01:03 PM
^ How come there's almost nothing left of that BMD?

Jippo
08-20-2008, 01:04 PM
Fire is hot, BMD is made of thin metal. It has melted away.

marmot
08-20-2008, 01:15 PM
I am quite surprised Russian Army haven't used any new types of
weapons in the conflict, which presented an opportunity to test
them in a real engagement with relatively well equipped foreign
army.

Yes, we saw new types of individual weapons. But where are new
helicopters, such as Mi-28 and Ka-50/52, where are (just mentioned)
"Pantcirs", and other medium/heavy weaponry?

MZKT
08-20-2008, 01:40 PM
I am quite surprised Russian Army haven't used any new types of
weapons in the conflict, which presented an opportunity to test
them in a real engagement with relatively well equipped foreign
army.

Yes, we saw new types of individual weapons. But where are new
helicopters, such as Mi-28 and Ka-50/52, where are (just mentioned)
"Pantcirs", and other medium/heavy weaponry?

The only Pantsirs in production produced are the batch for UAE. Russian army has not a single Pantsir and will not receive any in near future since the production line is already booked out for syrian order. Mi-28 and Ka-50/52 are also available only in one digit numbers. According to the photos in the whole South ossetian conflict there was not a single past-soviet heavy weapon on russian side.
But soviet weapons proved absoutely sufficient to route georgian army anyway.

marmot
08-20-2008, 01:53 PM
The only Pantsirs in production produced are the batch for UAE. Russian army has not a single Pantsir and will not receive any in near future since the production line is already booked out for syrian order. Mi-28 and Ka-50/52 are also available only in one digit numbers. According to the photos in the whole South ossetian conflict there was not a single past-soviet heavy weapon on russian side.
But soviet weapons proved absoutely sufficient to route georgian army anyway.

OK, thanks for the disappointing explanations.

P.S. Man, is your nick a russian acronym for Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant?

mannelig
08-20-2008, 02:37 PM
OK, thanks for the disappointing explanations.

P.S. Man, is your nick a russian acronym for Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant?

Belorussian :D

TheArmenian
08-20-2008, 02:37 PM
MSVS-2008 show has started today.

This is the first photo I could catch.

A modernized version of the GSh-18 pistol.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3058/1444343mj7.jpg

I hope Vitaly will attend the show and provide us with quality photos.

Hey Vitaly (in case you are going to be there) please take a good photo of that pistol. I will appreciate it very much.

TheArmenian
08-20-2008, 02:54 PM
I found some photos of the MSVS-2008 which started today.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7250/05pk8.jpg
BTR-90

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5113/07up1.jpg
T-98 KOMBAT

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2047/28pr9.jpg
2S-19 MSTA-S

More photos: http://www.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/20/idelf08/

cinoeye
08-20-2008, 02:59 PM
Some lady "military analyst"on NPR yesterday(or day before), claimed how Russia Army is still now well equipped, and still uses cold war strategy.
It was just too funny!

gunman
08-20-2008, 03:05 PM
MSVS-2008 show has started today.

This is the first photo I could catch.

A modernized version of the GSh-18 pistol.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3058/1444343mj7.jpg

I hope Vitaly will attend the show and provide us with quality photos.

Hey Vitaly (in case you are going to be there) please take a good photo of that pistol. I will appreciate it very much.

Hi,

I search some pictures of the GSh-18, can you help me ?
Thks in advance

Mangol
08-20-2008, 03:05 PM
MSVS-2008 video news "Vesti"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xP9MwIE46s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xP9MwIE46s

Tomorrow will try to go to the exhibition, if enough time

cinoeye
08-20-2008, 03:05 PM
Does anybody know what type or armored car this is?

http://i36.*******.com/24eqsz7.jpg

photo taken in Chechnya 2003 or 2004.

Camera tripod?
Is this you or somebody else?

gunman
08-20-2008, 03:07 PM
T-80UM1

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7236/a3dbogvnqazp1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/701/hb0bo5i1dpnx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hilbert
08-20-2008, 03:16 PM
WHat about the digi t-shirt?

Who knows. Could as easily be a Russian product as it could be Georgian, there are several Russian equipment companies that make MARPAT style camouflage clothing.

cinoeye
08-20-2008, 03:17 PM
211

Nomenclature is Russian for russian platoon commander? But there are no markings on their uniforms...stolen surely, but that puts them in a heck of a trouble with their Hierarchy.

If there is any right now.

Why would you wear enemy uniform, is that allowed anyhow, especially while combat is still on?

Mousepad
08-20-2008, 03:22 PM
Why would you wear enemy uniform, is that allowed anyhow, especially while combat is still on?

He is a tanker, and when things going ballistic no one sees his uniform, also US issue cloth is way more comfy if compared to Russian made, especially for a tanker. As for allowed - In Soviet Russia...

Mangol
08-20-2008, 03:38 PM
I found some photos of the MSVS-2008 which started today.

More photos: http://www.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/20/idelf08/

At Exhibition

http://www.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/20/idelf08/23_Jpg.htm

In reality
http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080820/b6/b6850321fd5f394121.jpg
OZK-F

cinoeye
08-20-2008, 03:39 PM
Ahh, that makes sense. Serbian doesn't apply to Russian that easily, it seems. Because 'Malo budem - (d)obavim' translates directly to 'I get the job done quickly'. Hah!

L.

MALo budem-(AKO) Bude Malo-
DObavit- NAbaviti

PVJ
08-20-2008, 04:29 PM
If anyone is going to that exhibition make sure you get some extra photos of the BTR-90 and T-90.

Mr.Woland
08-20-2008, 04:53 PM
Hi,
I search some pictures of the GSh-18, can you help me ?
Thks in advance
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg111-e.htm
http://www.redstar.ru/2005/11/16_11/54.jpg
http://www.bratishka.ru/archiv/2006/7/images/2006071302.jpg

cromaster
08-20-2008, 06:28 PM
The first man who shown the three finger salute was Milos Obrenovic,it can be seen on picture by Paja Jovanovic representing the takovo uprising,that event happend 1813. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takovo_Uprising) and the picture is from 1898.

You can show that sign as the number of something,but as salute it is an orhodox simbol...

Okay. I'm sure that they started to use this symbol many years ago before Milos Obrenovic...
http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/050422/nn_maceda_swissguard_050422.300w.jpg

A Holly Trinity is a Christian symbol. Not necessary only orthodox, but okay, I understand what's your point. You could say that three fingers represent the way how orthodox Christians make the sign of cross. That would be more accurate explanation than the Holly Trinity.

Unifil 37
08-20-2008, 06:34 PM
Not suggesting that cutting off fingers is nice, but they could simply have killed them. Even worse there was one leader from ancient time (name escapes me at the moment) who ordered that the enemy prisoners be lined up and each prisoner was blinded except the tenth prisoner in the row. He only had one eye gouged out so he could lead the other 9 home with the 10 men forming a line one arm on the guy in front of them...

Imagine the implications of all your young strong men coming back to your village 9 out of 10 blind and the one that can see with only one eye. Could be considered a fate worse than death perhaps?

I think it,s cruel anyway! I saw a video of a russian soldier getting his triggerfinger shot of by a chechen rebell ,and i was disgusted! It`s barbaric and just dumb.
In the middle age, the Skandinavian vikings raped, burned and violated woman... And not in that particular order. Dosn`t mean that we do that today. Any modern and civilized army should treat the POW`s acording to the geneva convention!

Indiana Jones
08-20-2008, 07:02 PM
"Standart" Roman retaliatory procedure. Decimation...with a twist. The Roman applied that to both captives and their own men for discipline purposes.
Actually there is indication to suggest that the Romans reverted to blinding their men.
And the man in question was Basileios II. "Boulgaroktonos", who by the way according to legend did not blind 9 out of 10 but 99 out of 100 men.

VUCICEVIC
08-20-2008, 11:15 PM
You could say that three fingers represent the way how orthodox Christians make the sign of cross. That would be more accurate explanation than the Holly Trinity.

I did want to say that but i didn`t know how to translate "krstiti se"...:)



Does someone know something more about new russian pistol p-96s,I heard it is a very good weapon?

Wally1967
08-20-2008, 11:16 PM
http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080519/32/32abef9a2e6dc5362a.jpg

These helmets are a version copy of British helmets?

Wally1967
08-21-2008, 01:36 AM
Cool thanks also I didn't know they have bullet proof caps "Kokos" aswell p-)

marmot
08-21-2008, 01:46 AM
I am wondering if "Msta-S" was ever used in the South Ossetian conflict?
Anybody has photos, please?

Somehow most prominent artillery pieces on the photos happened
to be older 2S3 "Akatsiya" and BM-27 "Uraghan" - at least it looked like
that to me.

Neither "Msta" nor its predecessor 2S1 weren't visible.

GazB
08-21-2008, 02:15 AM
"Standart" Roman retaliatory procedure. Decimation...with a twist. The Roman applied that to both captives and their own men for discipline purposes.

You sure? I thought it was only used for morale by the Romans... ie line up all the units that need motivation and every tenth soldier is stabbed with a spear from behind and killed. The rest learn that running away from battle and abandoning your mates can get you killed too without having to kill everyone that ran away. (Decimation = reduction of forces by factor of ten).


Basil II was furious another part of his forces was annihilated in another battle.
Sorry for the offtopic.

What a piece of work he was... thanks for the info.


^ How come there's almost nothing left of that BMD?

Engine fires are hot and BMDs are made with Aluminium.


But where are new
helicopters, such as Mi-28 and Ka-50/52, where are (just mentioned)
"Pantcirs", and other medium/heavy weaponry?

They only have about 2-4 Mi-28Ns in service and they will be in a special unit that will be testing them and flying them around so they can write a manual for other pilots. They will also be developing new tactics based on the aircrafts new capabilities. All that takes time.

Georgian airpower probably didn't justify heavier air defence systems. The units deployed in the fighting were local units and don't generally get the latest weapons first.


OK, thanks for the disappointing explanations.

The R&D component of the Russian industrial complex was largely kept alive with exports. The Production component was hit the hardest with small export orders barely keeping them alive. A return to local significant size orders will not painless as finding skilled workers is not easy. Also many facilities are now in different countries... like Ukraine etc.


Some lady "military analyst"on NPR yesterday(or day before), claimed how Russia Army is still now well equipped, and still uses cold war strategy.
It was just too funny!

Well they aren't short of equipment. And their Rifles and small arms are reliable and effective, and there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with their RPGs.


In the middle age, the Skandinavian vikings raped, burned and violated woman... And not in that particular order.

Isn't violated and raped the same thing?

Either way, nice and comfortable and warm here in front of my computer with no sounds of gunfire and no war within 2,000km of my current position I can say I agree that such things are barbaric. However if I was going down to my bomb shelter for the 200th night in a row wondering whether my house will survive or not, and wondering which of my friends I will lose this night and I see a parachute I can't say for certain I would hand them over to the authorities in one piece... if at all.
Human nature is a funny thing.


Any modern and civilized army should treat the POW`s acording to the geneva convention!

Even the US puts people in cages and tortures them when the situation makes it possible. (Without 11/9 I don't think they would even consider it, but...)


Neither "Msta" nor its predecessor 2S1 weren't visible.

2S1 is 122mm and not predecessor to Msta, which like the 2S3 is 152mm calibre.

They used older gear because the units in that region are equipped that that stuff.
Just further evidence that this action was not planned by the Russians, who would probably have wanted to test a lot of gear in this if they were the aggressor.

Scotus
08-21-2008, 02:29 AM
These helmets are a version copy of British helmets?If you are asking if they are "copies" of the Mk6-series helmets, they are not. Russia is a leader in the development of helmets and body armour (as you can see in the NII Stali link) and has no need to copy other countries.

However, in typically complicated Russian style, they simultaneously have in service helmets that are vastly inferior (SSh-68), equal to (6B26) and vastly superior (6B6) to other leading militaries.

Mr.Woland
08-21-2008, 03:00 AM
However, in typically complicated Russian style, they simultaneously have in service helmets that are vastly inferior (SSh-68), equal to (6B26) and vastly superior (6B6) to other leading militaries.
Yes. This is a big problem in our army. A lot of different eqipment even in one platoon or squad.

gunman
08-21-2008, 04:06 AM
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg111-e.htm
http://www.redstar.ru/2005/11/16_11/54.jpg
http://www.bratishka.ru/archiv/2006/7/images/2006071302.jpg

Thks a lot :)

gunman
08-21-2008, 04:14 AM
T-80UM1

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4373/2008200823436pm0155cg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Mr.Woland
08-21-2008, 05:34 AM
Photos from III International Salon of weapons and military equipment MVSV-2008
http://lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/20/idelf08/
МВСВ-2008 site http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=ru&langpair=ru%7Cen&u=http://www.idelf.ru/&usg=ALkJrhiKKrIR3KUBth2qdqalzBSOG5t2Cg

GIJOEJK
08-21-2008, 05:49 AM
T-80UM2...
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/7531/z003pf9.jpg

KoTeMoRe
08-21-2008, 06:17 AM
You sure? I thought it was only used for morale by the Romans... ie line up all the units that need motivation and every tenth soldier is stabbed with a spear from behind and killed. The rest learn that running away from battle and abandoning your mates can get you killed too without having to kill everyone that ran away. (Decimation = reduction of forces by factor of ten).

100% used especially in the Tusci and Socii wars.The "Allies War" and the wars against the Etrurians. When they faced their Italian "allies" that had revolted (maye that explains the use) the Romans were very ruthless. In both Gallic wars too as shown by various pictograms and shattered pottery.

KoTeMoRe
08-21-2008, 06:27 AM
T-80UM1

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7236/a3dbogvnqazp1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/701/hb0bo5i1dpnx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Do I see three different emplacements for GPMG's/HMG's? Holy Molly, TRE specs? Urban/Mout?

Dark Avenger
08-21-2008, 07:45 AM
The TC's panoramic sight takes the place of the normal gun mount on the cupola, so pintle mounts are provided instead.

KoTeMoRe
08-21-2008, 09:13 AM
The TC's panoramic sight takes the place of the normal gun mount on the cupola, so pintle mounts are provided instead.

In fact there is only one pintle mount not three. the other "emplacements" were the rear/side Laser/IR sensor.

flanker7
08-21-2008, 09:14 AM
So, the NSV cannot be fired from the inside now?

Mr.Woland
08-21-2008, 09:41 AM
So, the NSV cannot be fired from the inside now?
You mean to use main machinegun inside tank ?
The main machinegun has control gun ring.

flanker7
08-21-2008, 09:44 AM
I guessed, from DA post, that the MG mount is moved and replaced with 3 pintle mounts, which I realize have to be controled from outside the hatch

Wazzaap
08-21-2008, 11:56 AM
http://img12.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/c/7/4/5/d/c745d3122f209d78596acd14200c384d_full.jpg

VitalyVK
08-21-2008, 12:00 PM
MSVS-2008
I hope Vitaly will attend the show and provide us with quality photos.

Hey Vitaly (in case you are going to be there) please take a good photo of that pistol. I will appreciate it very much.


Hi,

I search some pictures of the GSh-18, can you help me ?
Thks in advance

No problem, i've just came home from MVSV

here are the pics of GSh-18 and interesting P-96M pistol from KBP section

I uploaded without watermarks and in original resolution for you, guys


http://www.flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1219334935_g.jpg


3888x2592 (http://www.flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1219334935_o.jpg)






http://www.flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1219334929_g.jpg


3888x2592 (http://www.flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1219334929_o.jpg)

Wazzaap
08-21-2008, 12:33 PM
This T-80UM1 looks amazing!

gunman
08-21-2008, 01:37 PM
No problem, i've just came home from MVSV

here are the pics of GSh-18 and interesting P-96M pistol from KBP section

I uploaded without watermarks and in original resolution for you, guys



Thks a lot Vitaly :)

Mr.K
08-21-2008, 01:56 PM
Do Russian tanks come with or without the children? :D

VitalyVK
08-21-2008, 01:58 PM
Thks a lot Vitaly :)

You are welcome, as far as i remember there also were GSH-18 pics in my report from Tula State arms museum
I believe that GSh-18 is some kind of a present from designer

2007 year
http://www.flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1213900865_g.jpg



2008
http://www.flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1215984309_g.jpg


hires here
http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/79

VitalyVK
08-21-2008, 02:05 PM
Do Russian tanks come with or without the children? :D

:) i think they are the base specification

http://i34.*******.com/swzhit.jpg

Mangol
08-21-2008, 02:08 PM
MSVS-2008

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/3c/3c0be00906430d6375.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/5c/5c5a99226a52852603.jpg
9K330 "TOR"

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/d6/d6d627466fdfae3f80.jpg
9K81 S-300V

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/da/da18aef16e5d4f0c3e.jpg
2S19 MSTA-S

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/5b/5bda670c971569cce3.jpg
9K58 Smerch

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/c7/c7fd4f06a5cc040b5b.jpg
9K57 Uragan

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/49/4903418093b29af6ce.jpg
9К51 Grad

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/cd/cd35c0875f7ae97831.jpg
2S9 Nona-s

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/7a/7a86cf3bb7a575e1cb.jpg
2S25 Sput-SD

Mangol
08-21-2008, 02:23 PM
http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/28/285ced49bee485a37e.jpg
BMD-4

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/68/68cadc9e94618a2049.jpg
BMP-3

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/05/05359cf1cf534d968a.jpg
The soldier in the new uniforms (Tchifra)

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/78/7852f7fc73c676dcd4.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/c8/c8243d8ed2bd1d914c.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/a4/a49c6d25cfa52b7741.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/1e/1e7a1dc2469c43846c.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/c1/c178ddca5f1fa9f176.jpg


T-90S

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/f8/f82641d94cee0aed4d.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/de/de3eaf6fd4cb92cad6.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/6d/6d20bb25dd69f5e4b4.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/b0/b075768f7b4a0930eb.jpg
Wunderwaffe :)

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/12/12b16bce3bf4d53b89.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/46/466747fd7900497a31.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/71/71cbb66f5ae2d4f10a.jpg
BTR-80A


http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/97/9713cc85a6de9c3d9b.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/05/0556fbaddb85318323.jpg
BTR-90

Mangol
08-21-2008, 02:33 PM
http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/5d/5d3caa326636b9e979.jpg
ASU-57P 1949 release

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/b4/b49a9fab9e618fe985.jpg
T-70 1942 release

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/25/2599876db5b7649b35.jpg
T-26 1939 release

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/bb/bb05e4db484322f2b3.jpg
T-38 1936-1939 release

http://iew.keep4u.ru (http://iew.keep4u.ru)

marmot
08-21-2008, 02:38 PM
2S1 is 122mm and not predecessor to Msta, which like the 2S3 is 152mm calibre.

They used older gear because the units in that region are equipped that that stuff.
Just further evidence that this action was not planned by the Russians, who would probably have wanted to test a lot of gear in this if they were the aggressor.

Shame on me, before you told me I had always thought that 2S19 was in
122 mm calibre, the same as 2S1, and was a replacement for 2S1.

Thanks for opening my eyes!!!rofl

TheArmenian
08-21-2008, 03:10 PM
Thank you Vitaly.
:hug:

Looking forward to the rest of your photos.

Unifil 37
08-21-2008, 03:12 PM
I,ve said it before, and i`ll say it again... This Thread is awsome!!
It`s impressive that the russian equipment are so mobile ,and so robust!

A question: wasn`t there a landing exercise, or something like that during this summer at Kola peninsula? i sawa picture ,and it seems like a landing exercise with Ropucha cl and some smaller ones... Any pics out there of this event?

Keep ut the excelent thread!!!!!!

Mangol
08-21-2008, 03:21 PM
:) i think they are the base specification

http://i34.*******.com/swzhit.jpg

http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080821/15/158d85e5266262fe4b.jpg

really:-D

TheArmenian
08-21-2008, 03:24 PM
Thank you very much Vitaly:hug:

Looking forward to the rest of your photos.

In the meanwhile, I found this photo of the GP-30 underbarrel grenade launcher.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/4746/1445752dw4.jpg

Mormaeglin
08-21-2008, 03:59 PM
I sometimes as myself who You are or who You know to have acces to such firearms photos ;)

mannelig
08-21-2008, 04:32 PM
Kids are just a new sort of an active armour. When you see them playing, you won`t shoot :D

Joke :D

Fidayi
08-21-2008, 04:33 PM
Here is my first video to this thread. Hope it's not a re-post. In this video you can find some of the vehicles that were posted previously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePrEuiTHnc4&feature=related

And BTW whats the story behind this tank, why was it never taken into service?

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t12_black_eagle.jpg

marmot
08-21-2008, 04:38 PM
I sometimes as myself who You are or who You know to have acces to such firearms photos ;)

Yeah, I can understan you, the photo looks like he made it on his own
desk, not easy to find such photos on the Internet.

The guy got contacts :backhand:

He219
08-21-2008, 04:40 PM
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7206/610xvb5.jpg

A Russian soldier on a military vehicle wearing Georgian equipment, travels on a main road leading to Poti August 21, 2008. Russia intends to keep 500 troops in a security zone surrounding Georgia's breakaway South Ossetia region, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Thursday
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7656/610xyn2.jpg

Russain soldiers argue with Georgians (not seen) near the town of Igoeti, 50 kms from Tbilisi,Thursday, Aug. 21, 2008. Georgian activists got into a tense argument with Russian soldiers over the military conflict with Georgia as they held a rally in the town outside the strategic city of Gori
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/6140/610xar9.jpg
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6449/610xnf0.jpg

Russian military convoy travels on a road leading to Chorotchku, as a commercial painting on a wall shows Georgian and U.S. national flags, in a small town in Senaki district August 20, 2008. NATO's move to curtail regular contacts with Russia over its behaviour in Georgia will rob both sides of a vital channel for security cooperation -- but Moscow is in no mood to pay much heed for now.
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2821/610xfq8.jpg
Nice breaching attachment ..
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/8305/610xju2.jpg
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7325/610xbz1.jpg
Interesting, *****ped of ERA ..

Russian tanks drive from Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia towards the Roki tunnel that leads into Russia near the village of Vekhny Ruk August 21, 2008.

He219
08-21-2008, 04:58 PM
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7029/132456gg5.jpg

Georgian cobra, probably disabled by heavy sniper rifle. Any guesses? It killed 3 soldiers in a row, injured the driver and ricocheted from control panel.
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0107.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0118.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0116.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0115.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/k/r/krig42/IMG_0119.jpg
source (http://krig42.livejournal.com/118266.html)
Hopefully this Cobra will end up on display in the Armored Forces Museum at Kubinka.

(Which I really must visit it someday - sigh...)
Looks like it ..

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/300/610xte5.jpg

A Russian truck carries a Georgian armoured vehicle as it moves along a road near Verkhny Zaramag in North Ossetia after crossing the border into Russia from Georgia, August 20, 2008

nemowork
08-21-2008, 05:03 PM
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/8305/610xju2.jpg

Interesting, *****ped of ERA ..

Bit of a noob question since nobody can really tell the difference except for the ERA types but that looks like the markings the Georgians used on their tanks.
Are at least some of them the captured Georgian tanks not Russian armour being withdrawn?

PlasticMag
08-21-2008, 05:12 PM
Thank you very much Vitaly:hug:

Looking forward to the rest of your photos.

In the meanwhile, I found this photo of the GP-30 underbarrel grenade launcher.



That's Airsoft.

PVJ
08-21-2008, 05:34 PM
Does the BTR-90 only have side entrance/exit door? or is there one in the back, cuz in the pics it dosent look like theres door on the rear.

Mr.Woland
08-21-2008, 06:38 PM
Does the BTR-90 only have side entrance/exit door? or is there one in the back, cuz in the pics it dosent look like theres door on the rear .
Only side doors.

He219
08-21-2008, 06:44 PM
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7206/610xvb5.jpg
What type of sidearms and rigid holster combos would Russian forces wear?

StukaJr
08-21-2008, 07:10 PM
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2821/610xfq8.jpg
Nice breaching attachment ..


Those are anti-mine plows...

edi213009
08-21-2008, 07:20 PM
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7206/610xvb5.jpg
What type of sidearms and rigid holster combos would Russian forces wear?

home is mucher bigger to be 9mm at least it seems...maybe its the new Yaruginn Grach

erebusjr
08-21-2008, 10:12 PM
Very nice pictures !! By the way, the BMD-Nona, I read in a book, the Russian paratroops consider it a very formidable weapon, even the mujahideem respected. Anyone can verify this ? Beacause besides that book (Airborne :Russia's Air Assault Force), the Nona has not received much spotlight since then. Thx.

KoTeMoRe
08-22-2008, 01:32 AM
Here is my first video to this thread. Hope it's not a re-post. In this video you can find some of the vehicles that were posted previously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePrEuiTHnc4&feature=related

And BTW whats the story behind this tank, why was it never taken into service?

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t12_black_eagle.jpg

That's the Black Eagle or T-80UM2, served as a testbed and export offering, now it rusts somewhere in leningrad...oups I meant St. Petersburg because the company went broke. The only part of it, that is still of any relevance is the Universal Turret project.

Mr.Woland
08-22-2008, 01:59 AM
Very nice pictures !! By the way, the BMD-Nona, I read in a book, the Russian paratroops consider it a very formidable weapon, even the mujahideem respected.
122mm multi-ammo gun are best :) .

the Nona has not received much spotlight since then. Thx.
Because it is artillery.

Abbyy
08-22-2008, 03:53 AM
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2821/610xfq8.jpg
Nice breaching attachment ..


Same tanks pictured at August 11, while they belonged to Georgian army yet.
http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/82266040.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19368FFB0B613D6DEB0F3FC38E63AC9B91EE30A760B0D811297

Kashalot
08-22-2008, 04:26 AM
He-219

A Russian soldier on a military vehicle wearing Georgian equipment,

Why do you think about georgian origin of this camo ? Some russian vendors produce digital camo in many patterns. For example:

http://www.telnik.ru/images/359/prop_87.jpg
It costs only 90 roubles ~ 3 bucks.

Leo1
08-22-2008, 04:59 AM
That's the Black Eagle or T-80UM2

Nope. T-80UM2 isn't Black Eagle. The T-80UM2 is a T-80UM with the Drozd-2 APS. Much like the T-80UM1 is a T-80UM with the Arena-E APS.

The only relationship the Black Eagle shares with the T-80 is that it's got a (stretched) chassis derived from the original T-80U chassis. That's it.


now it rusts somewhere in leningrad...oups I meant St. Petersburg

Do you know that for sure? I would've thought it was in Omsk, that is where it was designed and built, after all (Omsktransmash).

It's too bad, but Uralvagonzavod has its own, more radical, future tank design coming. It probably won't be in service in any numbers until 2020.

KoTeMoRe
08-22-2008, 05:03 AM
Nope. T-80UM2 isn't Black Eagle. The T-80UM2 is a T-80UM with the Drozd-2 APS. Much like the T-80UM1 is a T-80UM with the Arena-E APS.

The only relationship the Black Eagle shares with the T-80 is that it's got a (stretched) chassis derived from the original T-80U chassis. That's it.



Do you know that for sure? I would've thought it was in Omsk, that is where it was designed and built, after all (Omsktransmash).

It's too bad, but Uralvagonzavod has its own, more radical, future tank design coming. It probably won't be in service in any numbers until 2020.


Humm I think there are pictures of it in this thread...with a leningrad caption. As for the relationship...both are Turbine tanks too but that's incidental. But I'm pretty sure I've seen the Black Eagle dubbed T-80UM2. Honest mistake...

VitalyVK
08-22-2008, 05:26 AM
A Russian soldier on a military vehicle wearing Georgian equipment,


x2

i also have ACU and MARPAD, and if someone took a photo with me near georgia border there would be so many chats that Vitaly is a looter :)

gunman
08-22-2008, 05:48 AM
T-80UM1

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3583/2008200813001pm0128lf9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/84/2008200820229pm0133bc1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Sabaka Babaka
08-22-2008, 05:51 AM
T-80UM1
What's that big thing at the top of the turret?

gunman
08-22-2008, 06:04 AM
What's that big thing at the top of the turret?

"Arena" active protection system

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2721/2008200822340pm0146go8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9742/2008200822558pm0148aw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Protection

The T-80U-M1 tank is protected against ATGW by:

– combined multi-layer glacis armor plating and combined filler of the turret armor;
– built-in explosive reactive armor protection of the hull and turret, and side skirts fitted with explosive elements;
– the Arena active protection system;
– the Shtora-1 optronic countermeasures system.
The use of the built-in explosive reactive armor protection system on tanks in the 1980s considerably enhanced their protection aganst shaped-charge projectiles. However, as the explosive elements of this system detonate, a certain portion of the tank's main armor becomes unprotected.
Over the past 10 to 20 years, many countries have been involved in the development of active protection systems for tanks, but only Russia has brought developmental work to fruition and launched production. Arena is one such system. For its performance characteristics there are no other systems in the world that can compare with Arena. This system is designed to protect the tank against antitank grenades and missiles fired by all types of infantry weapons, as well as ground and air-launched ATGMs flying at a speed of 70 to 700 m/s, regardless of the type of control systems and warheads.
The Arena system is switched on/off from the commander's control console. Once Arena is switched on, all subsequent operations are performed automatically. Apart from the basic automatic mode of operation, exceptionally, the commander can control the system manually, for example, when it is necessary to destroy obstacles or for close-in protection against infantry.
Arena provides protection for a moving or stationary tank in any weather and in any combat environment, irrespective of the angle of impact of the enemy's weapons. The data-processing radars and sights feature a high level of noise immunity. They do not respond to false and random signals, and come into action only in situations where there is a serious threat to the tank or when a weapon fired by the enemy is heading directly towards the tank.
The active protection system doubles Bars' lifetime, and if the tank is used in peace-keeping operations or to control local conflicts, its lifetime is tripled or quadrupled. Application of the Arena active protection system in combination with the Shtora-1 optronic countermeasures system enhances the tank's protection three to five times.
The T-80U-M1 Bars tank is equipped with a quick-acting highly sensitive chemical and radiological reconnaissance system used in place of the GO-27 device installed on virtually all other Russian-made armored vehicles. This system requires lower maintenance.
The new system is compact and easy to operate. A built-in check feature makes it possible to promptly test the system's status and obtain information about its major units.
An automatic firefighting system is capable of smothering a fire within 150 ms.
The tank's signal communications facilities include an R-163-50U radio set and an R-163UP radio receiver. Both operate in the very-short wave band in a noise-detune mode, where an array of preselected frequencies are scanned automatically to find the one which is less affected by interference. The tank's signal communications facilities also include a telecoded information transmission channel and signal communications facilitities operating with preselected subscribers.

San4es60
08-22-2008, 07:15 AM
http://pics.utro.ru/utro_photos/2008/08/22/751big.jpg

Yamadaev, commander of the "Vostok"

RSone
08-22-2008, 07:20 AM
That's the Black Eagle or T-80UM2, served as a testbed and export offering, now it rusts somewhere in leningrad...oups I meant St. Petersburg because the company went broke. The only part of it, that is still of any relevance is the Universal Turret project.

Wasn't that basically what it was? The UT mounted on a T-80 chassis?

KoTeMoRe
08-22-2008, 07:23 AM
Wasn't that basically what it was? The UT mounted on a T-80 chassis?

That's why I thought is was also called the T-80UM2...

Since the UT was coupled with a "stretched" T-80 chassis.

Kashalot
08-22-2008, 08:28 AM
x2

i also have ACU and MARPAD, and if someone took a photo with me near georgia border there would be so many chats that Vitaly is a looter :)

MARinePATtern ;-)

VitalyVK
08-22-2008, 09:00 AM
MARinePATtern ;-)

p-) ye

12345678

Wazzaap
08-22-2008, 11:38 AM
http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/002_voennie.jpg

http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/003_voennie.jpg

http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/005_voennie.jpg

http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/010_voennie.jpg

http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/011_voennie.jpg

http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/013_voennie.jpg

http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/018_voennie.jpg
http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/021_voennie.jpg

http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/034_voennie.jpg

http://img.rian.ru/images/11617/74/116177412.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080821/116184792_6.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11617/75/116177529.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080821/116184792_9.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11617/75/116177523.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080821/116184792_14.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11617/75/116177535.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080821/116184792_15.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11617/75/116177548.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080821/116184792_17.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11617/75/116177554.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080821/116184792-others.html)

Russian paratrooper girls
http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/02/115350285.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089_2.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/06/115350623.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089_3.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/03/115350369.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089_4.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/04/115350402.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089_5.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/05/115350522.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089_6.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/06/115350690.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089_7.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/04/115350440.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089_8.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/05/115350569.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089_9.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/07/115350730.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089_10.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/11535/04/115350471.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080801/115375089-others.html)


http://img.rian.ru/images/5426/75/54267518.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080725/114896167_2.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/5426/93/54269344.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080725/114896167_3.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/5426/77/54267746.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080725/114896167_6.html)

http://img.rian.ru/images/5426/67/54266737.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080725/114896167_7.html)

http://picture.belga.be/belgapicture/picture/prev/10102256.jpg

http://picture.belga.be/belgapicture/picture/prev/10102084.jpg
http://picture.belga.be/belgapicture/picture/prev/10101773.jpg

http://picture.belga.be/belgapicture/picture/prev/10101581.jpg

http://www.idelf.ru/im.xp/055050048052049054.jpg

http://www.idelf.ru/im.xp/055050048053049050.jpg

http://www.idelf.ru/im.xp/055050048053051054.jpg

http://www.idelf.ru/im.xp/055050048054048056.jpg

Mormaeglin
08-22-2008, 11:47 AM
Dewushki in VDV? ej klass!! :D

Abbyy
08-22-2008, 11:50 AM
MARinePATtern ;-)


marpat? What's marpat? In Russia it is now widely known as "georgian camo" and i don't think you're capable to change that trend. That pattern is now cursed. :) *kidding

sosed
08-22-2008, 11:56 AM
Anyone know what is outside difference between S-300V and ANTEY-2500, that anyone could recognize one from the other? How many Antey-2500 russian army already have?

TheArmenian
08-22-2008, 12:00 PM
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/4918/f969ade381f9tm8.jpg
Missile Corvette MIRAGE returned to Sevastopol today. This i sthe ship that sank the Georgian boat GEORGY TORELI.

holyfetzer
08-22-2008, 12:09 PM
http://www.idelf.ru/im.xp/055050048052049054.jpg

SA-3 Goa? Is this still being manufactured?

KoTeMoRe
08-22-2008, 12:45 PM
SA-3 Goa? Is this still being manufactured?

Most probably modernized...

TheArmenian
08-22-2008, 01:11 PM
^^^
The SA-3 above is the modernized PECHORA system.


http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1782/1447294yx2.jpg

Captured equipment from the Georgian army.

In the front row, there are anti-tank guns.
Are they 100mm? with the middle one being 125mm?

Lokos
08-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Looks like four BS-3 (D-10) M1944 100mm field guns and... I'm not sure. Although I could be entirely mistaken on all accounts - I'm basically just looking at the carriage and the barrel shape. They could be 122mm pieces.

L.

gunman
08-22-2008, 01:24 PM
Looks like four BS-3 (D-10) M1944 100mm field guns and... I'm not sure. Although I could be entirely mistaken on all accounts - I'm basically just looking at the carriage and the barrel shape. They could be 122mm pieces.

L.

D-44 85mm Gun

This is the BS-3

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/BS-3-batey-haosef-1.jpg

flanker7
08-22-2008, 01:25 PM
I think the M-1944/BS-3 has longer barrel. Could be wrong though. We had them here, they had a secondary AT role with special round

kosse
08-22-2008, 01:28 PM
I think the M-1944/BS-3 has longer barrel. Could be wrong though. We had them here, they had a secondary AT role with special round
They look like D-44 85mm to me.

Dark Avenger
08-22-2008, 01:31 PM
Not BS-3 (http://www.army.gov.cy/index.php?id=227&type=4&vid=1&view=side) (which has dual tyres), but 85mm D-44 (http://www.jedsite.info/artillery-delta/delta-number-su/d-44_series/d-44/d44.html) or D-44-N (http://www.jedsite.info/artillery-delta/delta-number-su/d-44_series/d-44-n/d44n.html) guns, while the one in the middle is a T-12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-12_antitank_gun) 100mm AT gun.
Edit: Gunman & Kosse posted faster re: D-44.

Lokos
08-22-2008, 01:33 PM
Stupid Russians and their similar looking artillery pieces...

:)

Thanks for the correction, gentlemen.

L.

gunman
08-22-2008, 01:36 PM
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7293/image1li7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1071
08-22-2008, 01:36 PM
Seized Georgian weapons are destroyed in Abkhazia.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3490612&postcount=26

Mr.K
08-22-2008, 01:48 PM
http://de.fishki.net/picsw/082008/22/bonus/voennie/002_voennie.jpg

Another Russian trait : Person with bag. If you see a person with plastic bag, (especially when the plastic bag advertises something that is not carried in the bag) chances are he is Russianp-)

VitalyVK
08-22-2008, 02:03 PM
SA-3 Goa? Is this still being manufactured?

That's Pechora-2M, the factory offers modernization for Pechora

KoTeMoRe
08-22-2008, 02:16 PM
Seized Georgian weapons are destroyed in Abkhazia.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3490612&postcount=26


What the...? OMG!

Mr.Woland
08-22-2008, 02:34 PM
What the...? OMG!
+1.
Better to do a lattice rods from this guns to Saakashvilli cage. :)

gunman
08-22-2008, 02:44 PM
TMM-6

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/5028/v7v7vzlc9yot6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

gunman
08-22-2008, 03:06 PM
Anyone know what is outside difference between S-300V and ANTEY-2500, that anyone could recognize one from the other? How many Antey-2500 russian army already have?

Hi,

Visit this link for more information

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Giant-Gladiator.html

despirit
08-22-2008, 03:18 PM
http://img.rian.ru/images/11617/75/116177529.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20080821/116184792_9.html)

New RPG-7???

gunman
08-22-2008, 03:39 PM
New RPG-7???

No just simulator for training

edi213009
08-22-2008, 03:54 PM
old pix.the second one perhaps for the Humor thread

Vympel
08-22-2008, 04:26 PM
Seized Georgian weapons are destroyed in Abkhazia.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3490612&postcount=26

wtf, arent these weapons were in Vladikavkaz?

Ulytau
08-22-2008, 04:40 PM
Seized Georgian weapons are destroyed in Abkhazia.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3490612&postcount=26

Maybe stupid question but why they destroyed them?