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GazB
12-05-2008, 01:27 AM
Understood. So not only is the SV-98 a poor rifle, it is extremely expensive. What a shame. I hope in the future, Russia will create a new, true sniper rifle, as I know we are very capable of developing a good one.

I don't speak or read Russian. Could someone outline the problems in english?

Are the problems systemic or does it just need some modification work?

I mean the Soviets and Russians have traditionally competed well in international events at shooting so there is no reason why they can't design a rifle as good as any made elsewhere. Personally I think the problem is that perhaps Russian and Soviet snipers really haven't had the focus of very long range shooting that the west seems to be obsessed with. Personally if the target is in a car and is 2km away I don't think of using a rifle, I would prefer using a Metis-M with a HE warhead.

Vic Vega
12-05-2008, 05:28 AM
ИВС: "Только массовые растреллы спасут Родину!"

Do not quote this bastard.

mannelig
12-05-2008, 05:41 AM
http://photofile.ru/photo/fishki_net/3659813/81692858.jpg

Vic Vega
12-05-2008, 05:48 AM
http://www.armo99.ru/

MrJack
12-05-2008, 06:17 AM
http://photofile.ru/photo/fishki_net/3659813/81692858.jpg
More info about this pic?
Which heli it is?
Location?
Thank you!

binzer
12-05-2008, 06:23 AM
More info about this pic?
Which heli it is?
Location?
Thank you!

Well i see an Eotech Holo sightp-)

Dark Avenger
12-05-2008, 06:38 AM
More info about this pic?
Which heli it is?
Location?
Thank you!

It's a French-made Eurocopter (originally Aerospatiale) AS-355N Ecureuil 2 (Squirrel). With standard Police mods like optronics ball, loudspeakers, bench seats.
See here (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russian-Ministry-of/Aerospatiale-AS-355N-Ecureuil/1429932/M/).

bcax
12-05-2008, 07:49 AM
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8983/1596057ir7.png
I am not sure these magazines are made in Russia. Anyone can confirm???

its bulgarian or hungarian. it was in one topic on ak47.net

ayanami_tard
12-05-2008, 07:57 AM
It's a French-made Eurocopter (originally Aerospatiale) AS-355N Ecureuil 2 (Squirrel). With standard Police mods like optronics ball, loudspeakers, bench seats.
See here (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russian-Ministry-of/Aerospatiale-AS-355N-Ecureuil/1429932/M/).


i tought it is a fennec(i just can't tell the difference)


and why did russia bought foreign chopper?they have cheaper equivalent

Constantin
12-05-2008, 08:12 AM
i tought it is a fennec(i just can't tell the difference)


and why did russia bought foreign chopper?they have cheaper equivalent

Yes.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2309/2294372898_1de4c44898.jpg
But
without standard Police mods like optronics ball, loudspeakers, bench seats.

Vic Vega
12-05-2008, 08:44 AM
62268 62269



62270 62271



62272 62273



62274 62275

Dark Avenger
12-05-2008, 09:10 AM
i tought it is a fennec(i just can't tell the difference)


and why did russia bought foreign chopper?they have cheaper equivalent


Fennec is the strictly military version. The civilian one is always Ecureuil (A-Star or Twin Star in the US).


Yes.

But without standard Police mods

Not exactly; Mil offered a police variant of the ubiquitous Mi-24.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6894/mi24policemodel02xs4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1875/mi24policemodel01ap1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

mannelig
12-05-2008, 10:29 AM
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1875/mi24policemodel01ap1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hardcore highway chaser:D

Nuclear_Warrior
12-05-2008, 10:32 AM
I would be scared to death if I see of those things in my mirror.

Serg
12-05-2008, 11:32 AM
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;3736654
62140
QUOTE]


First - very nice photos and both have very nice Ak - (this photo should be used for another Russiaxwestern discussion :) )

But I have one guestion. The second man looks like he have some of the newest Ak - because of -well i dont know the technikal word -maybe gas rod? is longer then on others Ak.

So its looks like this is Ak107 or 108 -but Ak 107 is for 5,45x39 and 108 is for 5,56x45, and this gun have magazine which is 7,62x39 (Ak103 type maybe)

So ...its looks like that this guy have gun which shoudlnt exist. :)

Your opinion?

Vic Vega
12-05-2008, 11:34 AM
62282

Famous picture.

Vic Vega
12-05-2008, 11:53 AM
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;3736654
62140
QUOTE]


First - very nice photos and both have very nice Ak - (this photo should be used for another Russiaxwestern discussion :) )

But I have one guestion. The second man looks like he have some of the newest Ak - because of -well i dont know the technikal word -maybe gas rod? is longer then on others Ak.

So its looks like this is Ak107 or 108 -but Ak 107 is for 5,45x39 and 108 is for 5,56x45, and this gun have magazine which is 7,62x39 (Ak103 type maybe)

So ...its looks like that this guy have gun which shoudlnt exist. :)

Your opinion?

It looks like AK-104 or AK-105.

piton_kaa
12-05-2008, 11:54 AM
@Serg
AK-104 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as06-e.htm)

Ronguild
12-05-2008, 12:28 PM
62282

Famous picture.

My heart .... AAAAAARRRGGHHHH !

binzer
12-05-2008, 12:33 PM
[quote=Vic Vega;3736654
62140
QUOTE]


First - very nice photos and both have very nice Ak - (this photo should be used for another Russiaxwestern discussion :) )

But I have one guestion. The second man looks like he have some of the newest Ak - because of -well i dont know the technikal word -maybe gas rod? is longer then on others Ak.

So its looks like this is Ak107 or 108 -but Ak 107 is for 5,45x39 and 108 is for 5,56x45, and this gun have magazine which is 7,62x39 (Ak103 type maybe)

So ...its looks like that this guy have gun which shoudlnt exist. :)

Your opinion?

Anyonne care to explain how the guy got his hands on an ACOG sight...these are government use only and cannot be used by civilians or exported to other armies

Skopf
12-05-2008, 01:02 PM
[quote=Serg;3741563]

Anyonne care to explain how the guy got his hands on an ACOG sight...these are government use only and cannot be used by civilians or exported to other armies


mb he just took it at the supply dep.
or in the shop
http://www.profoptic.ru/goods/?producer=Trijicon&section=6 (http://www.profoptic.ru/goods/good.html?id=919)
любой каприз за ваши деньги :)

medo
12-05-2008, 01:45 PM
The new armoured vehicles: KAMAZ and SPM-3

http://www.zvezdanews.ru/video/0024227/

SPM-3 and Vystrel are good protected vehicles and nice to see SPM-3 with internal army black plates. SPM-3 has RCWS like western vehicles and it is great russians produce them too. I personaly more prefer turret than RCWS, because you don't need to go outside of armor protection to deal with jam or to load new ammo. Will russian army put this RCWSs on Vodniks, Tigers and Vystrels too? Any photos from this movie?

In the past it was said, that russian units will this year get first Pantsirs and BMPTs. This year will soon end and I would like to see any photos of them from regular units if they get them.

Vic Vega
12-05-2008, 02:06 PM
http://bratishka.ru/news/data/upimages/vv0512.jpg


http://bratishka.ru/index.php?id=523

Vic Vega
12-05-2008, 02:56 PM
http://milindcom.ru/data/01.JPG

http://milindcom.ru/data/04.JPG

http://milindcom.ru/data/Image/IMGP0400.JPG

Pos1t1ve
12-05-2008, 03:18 PM
http://bratishka.ru/news/data/upimages/vv0512.jpg


http://bratishka.ru/index.php?id=523

It`s cool! SPM-3 - Special police vehicle - 3 - armoured vehicle with automatic machine gun on the roof. Chassis - BTR 80

Mousepad
12-05-2008, 03:48 PM
DMB album of a guy who served in SU airforce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHFJu11lfcw

Dark Avenger
12-05-2008, 04:14 PM
It`s cool! SPM-3 - Special police vehicle - 3 - armoured vehicle with automatic machine gun on the roof. Chassis - BTR 80

You mean it's based on BTR-80 automotive components? I'm asking because, as I recall, someone mentioned that it used GAZ Tigr parts a few pages ago.

RomanS
12-05-2008, 06:57 PM
Do you guys think we can reach 7 million views by December 15th? Our 2 year GLORIOUS STRONG Anniversary

mannelig
12-05-2008, 07:38 PM
Do you guys think we can reach 7 million views by December 15th? Our 2 year GLORIOUS STRONG Anniversary

That`s about 40 000 view per day...no, we can`t :)

edi213009
12-05-2008, 08:23 PM
It`s cool! SPM-3 - Special police vehicle - 3 - armoured vehicle with automatic machine gun on the roof. Chassis - BTR 80

That vehicle seems not well balanced.it leans to the right

LEGEND
12-05-2008, 10:44 PM
That`s about 40 000 view per day...no, we can`t :)
If we scotch tape F5 on the keyboard....

Cornerstone
12-06-2008, 12:35 AM
^^looks like they already moved it is there any other pics...

Flyboy77
12-06-2008, 01:40 AM
^^looks like they already moved it is there any other pics...

http://www.zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/0024221/

Karaahmetoglu
12-06-2008, 01:53 AM
62282

Famous picture.

Rule is you post more then one. :bash::bash:

Pos1t1ve
12-06-2008, 05:17 AM
You mean it's based on BTR-80 automotive components? I'm asking because, as I recall, someone mentioned that it used GAZ Tigr parts a few pages ago.

Sorry- my English isn`t good ), u absolutely right.
SPM- 3 is new generation of russian armoured vechicle
it`s used:
Transmisson - Ural truck
Wheels and suspension - BTR-90 (not 80)
clearence - 0.5 meters.
Body has armoured V-type bottom.

SPM-3 has a NSV "Utes" 12.7 mm machine gun and (in future) a 14.5 "Kord" machine gun.

It is information from russian automobile magazine "Autoreview"

Afro-European
12-06-2008, 06:09 AM
http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/09/118700932.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_2.html)


September 1, 1959. The nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin on the Neva River


http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/10/118701055.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_3.html)


1959. Scientists working at nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin’s propulsion-unit and damage-control post


http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/08/118700899.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_4.html)


1959. Electric engines inside the turbine section of nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin.


http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/09/118700927.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_5.html)


1960. The crew of the nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin skiing during a short stopover in the Arctic Ocean


http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/10/118701040.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_6.html)


1960. A sailor of the nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin standing watch near stern winch.


http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/10/118701022.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_7.html)


1964. The prow of the nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin cutting through ice


http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/10/118701050.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_8.html)


1972. The nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin in the Arctic Ocean.


http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/10/118701045.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_9.html)


1979. The first Soviet nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin at Murmansk seaport


http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/08/118700892.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_10.html)


1982. The crew of the nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin eating in the ship’s wardroom.
What a luxious place to eat at!!!

http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/10/118701004.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543_11.html)


2005. The first Soviet nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin in a shipyard dock. The ship is currently being re-equipped and converted into the Arctic and Northern Sea Route History Museum


http://img.rian.ru/images/11870/09/118700980.jpg (http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20081205/118701543-others.html)


On December 5, 1957, the nuclear-powered icebreaker Lenin was launched in Leningrad, now St. Petersburg, and sailed her maiden voyage on September 15, 1959
How many nuclear powered Icebreakers are there active in the Russian Navy?( i mean in the Northern and Pacific Fleet)

Arbody
12-06-2008, 06:18 AM
^^looks like they already moved it is there any other pics...
Here you go
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/o333_photo/IMAG0057.jpg


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/o333_photo/imgp0190pe9.jpg


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/o333_photo/imgp0191up4.jpg

Mousepad
12-06-2008, 06:40 AM
In fresh news. Red stars on Russian warplanes and choppers will be replaced with 3-color stars. ****s. :fork:

TR1
12-06-2008, 06:46 AM
Are you serious? yay lets kick tradition in the face....

Mousepad
12-06-2008, 06:53 AM
Are you serious? yay lets kick tradition in the face....

Yep

In Russian
http://www.rian.ru/politics/20081205/156566546-print.html

piton_kaa
12-06-2008, 07:38 AM
****, it's insane =((
what kinda svcker worked out that bill???
*well at least it's only first debate of a bill, hope common sense and military lobby triumph over that s@#$t*

Vic Vega
12-06-2008, 07:38 AM
SPM-3 has RCWS like western vehicles and it is great russians produce them too. I personaly more prefer turret than RCWS, because you don't need to go outside of armor protection to deal with jam or to load new ammo.

It has a remote control turret.

Vic Vega
12-06-2008, 08:11 AM
62309

Pravda glaza kolet...

Vic Vega
12-06-2008, 11:38 AM
VM-2000

http://www.securityarms.com/cgi-local/protect.pl?File=3000/3000pics/3021.jpg

62310

I don't care if this photos had already been posted. I just want to know, if somebody HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THIS RIFLE.

medo
12-06-2008, 12:11 PM
Considering this photos, SPM-3 more likely have remote controlled weapon station like Kongsberg Protector than turret. I hope Vystrels for internal troops will be armed with this RCWS also or at least with a turret for border guard units.

piton_kaa
12-06-2008, 12:16 PM
I don't care if this photos had already been posted. I just want to know, if somebody HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THIS RIFLE.
Experimebtal as far as i understood
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/51/302646.html

Vic Vega
12-06-2008, 01:15 PM
62314

Survival Corps again (sorry for low quality).

[Odemkirtariy][UA]
12-06-2008, 02:05 PM
(Let's keep a minute silence for our patriarch Alexy II, who died yesterday)

MichaelF
12-06-2008, 02:26 PM
62314

Survival Corps again (sorry for low quality).

Survival Corps? What's that?

TheArmenian
12-06-2008, 03:16 PM
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8203/mlmi28n021200sy4.jpg

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8819/dpmi2401hu4.jpg

Thanks to M. Lisov and D. Pichugin

Pos1t1ve
12-06-2008, 03:26 PM
62314

Survival Corps again (sorry for low quality).

This is "ALFA"

piton_kaa
12-06-2008, 05:15 PM
Survival Corps? What's that?
just a company producing and reselling some wannabe a spetznaz stuff (some items are cool, regional FSB headquarters officers (and even units) buy from it)
nath worth paing attention at=);

Gawel1410
12-06-2008, 09:01 PM
In fresh news. Red stars on Russian warplanes and choppers will be replaced with 3-color stars. ****s. :fork:

No! I always like the red star, it is a tradition, why change it,:oops: with that read star symbol, the Red army advanced to vistory in WW2. It has sentimental value to the russian people.
And yes I am polish american but my grandmother was cared by a soviet/russian medic in WW2, shortly after she was born.
Thus I have some personal ties with the russian people and their symbols.

GazB
12-06-2008, 11:08 PM
I don't care if this photos had already been posted. I just want to know, if somebody HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THIS RIFLE.Isn't that just the latest upgrade of this?

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn50-e.htm


It has a remote control turret.I think he knows that, but he is pointing out that an external gun, even if it is remote control and can be aimed and fired from under the armour needs someone to leave the armour protection to load the gun or clear a jam, whereas with a turret the gun is protected by armour and can be loaded or a jam cleared from inside the vehicle. It also protects the gun from damage from small arms fire that could stop it from working properly.


In fresh news. Red stars on Russian warplanes and choppers will be replaced with 3-color stars.I must say I liked the Red Stars. When you saw a plane with a Red Star you knew whose it was. How many million countries have a combination of Red White and Blue?


So many problems, that a totally new rifle needs to be developed. The problems, to name a few, include stock, optics, ammo, grouping, and some internal parts (I don't know how to translate those, I'm not an expert in parts) Anybody can add to this.I wonder what went wrong. It was designed by a gun designer and was based on at target rifle designed for accuracy.

Here is the information I have based my opinions till now about the SV-98. On the surface it sounds great... but if the users think it is not good then I have to go with that. I would just like to read what they actually say specifically about it.

http://club.guns.ru/eng/sv-98.html

BTW did they ever make a model in .338 Laupa magnum like they planned to?

Kupr
12-07-2008, 06:46 AM
"Vikramaditya"

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g191/snake65/IMGP0198.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Mg880siZpus/SR7OwjxxTrI/AAAAAAAACc4/u7j2F49mO2E/s512/IMAG0057.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5862/imgp0190pe9.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4430/imgp0159au3.jpg

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/2378/imgp0191up4.jpg

Vic Vega
12-07-2008, 06:57 AM
Isn't that just the latest upgrade of this?

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn50-e.htm



No, it is a "brother" of OSV-96.

http://handgun.kapyar.ru/ph/225_02.jpg

JoeBethuy
12-07-2008, 10:29 AM
"Vikramaditya"

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g191/snake65/IMGP0198.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Mg880siZpus/SR7OwjxxTrI/AAAAAAAACc4/u7j2F49mO2E/s512/IMAG0057.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5862/imgp0190pe9.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4430/imgp0159au3.jpg

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/2378/imgp0191up4.jpg

Wonder who's gonna get their hands on this beautiful carrier: The Russian Navy or the Indian Navy?

DRA
12-07-2008, 12:50 PM
Wonder who's gonna get their hands on this beautiful carrier: The Russian Navy or the Indian Navy?

Indian, their leadership seems to be more intelligent than some of the posters on this board and has agreed to pay the difference.
Besides, most of the people in Russia still don't understand what do they need "5-6 aircraft carriers" for.

Hyde
12-07-2008, 12:56 PM
Indian, their leadership seems to be more intelligent than some of the posters on this board and has agreed to pay the difference.
Besides, most of the people in Russia still don't understand what do they need "5-6 aircraft carriers" for.

I was just about to ask that :D
So they agreed to pay the increase in costs: good news, you can't get an aircraft carrier at a bargain price, this thing will boost the indian navy's capabilities greatly! Great news for India.

I didn't neither, but if I take a look at the Falkands Thread i understand what they are useful for.

Vic Vega
12-07-2008, 01:33 PM
62392

62393

62394

62395

Does anybody know the name of this modification?

Vic Vega
12-07-2008, 02:08 PM
62413

62414

piton_kaa
12-07-2008, 02:32 PM
Does anybody know the name of this modification?
5.45x39 AK-74M with 60 rounds mag, new furniture, bi-pod kinda that (http://www.grippod.com/), perhaps russian made, upwards folding.

Vovka
12-07-2008, 05:26 PM
Ok i took this picture from another thread. I think it was posted by RomanS before. The dude on the left holds an AEK 971,the one on the right - AS VAL with some sight.....

More information on AEK971, its use in the military, it being a better option for Russian military then AN94, more pictures of it would be really appreciated.

sudbin
12-07-2008, 06:05 PM
This weekend I was covering offroad race in Rjazan region, not far from famous Diagilevo airbase. All the day heavy bombers and tankers were flying over our heads. Of course, I made a couple of shots.

Tu-95MC

http://s50.radikal.ru/i129/0812/75/0eb287e5ea1c.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

http://s57.radikal.ru/i157/0812/df/e2ff7073d87d.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

Tu-22M3

http://s57.radikal.ru/i156/0812/d9/7d25fbfbdc4b.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

Il-78 flying tanker (it was flying ruther far away):

http://s54.radikal.ru/i144/0812/27/0a450545552a.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

GazB
12-07-2008, 09:31 PM
Besides, most of the people in Russia still don't understand what do they need "5-6 aircraft carriers" for.

The number is no surprise. 6 carriers would guarantee to have two carriers on station at all times. Most like the Northern fleet and the Pacific fleet. A carrier has three phases of operation. At sea operational, training and in overhaul. If you have three carriers then one can be operational, one in training and one in overhaul, and they can be rotated so that one is always on call. If necessary with 6 carriers you could get 4 ships to sea if there was an emergency.

The point of carriers is to introduce airpower to your fleet. With airpower you have much greater range of vision thanks to AEW aircraft. You are better able to defend the ships from air attack. You are able to hunt submarines much more aggressively. You are able to attack enemy surface and land targets much more effectively.

In other words your vision and reach are greatly increased. With modern ship air defences become more and more capable smaller lighter weapons that can be used in large numbers can be used to soften a target before the larger heavier weapons are tried.


No, it is a "brother" of OSV-96.

Ahhh, so it is a bullpup bolt action version of a semi automatic conventional rifle.
It is clear they wanted a shorter but more accurate model. Wonder what they want that for?

emind
12-07-2008, 10:46 PM
If anyone is intrested, here is the book about heroes of Russia - "Военные Звёзды":
part 1 - http://www.akovalev.ru/Tom_01-pravka.pdf
part 2 - http://www.akovalev.ru/Tom_02.pdf
Gotta know russian lang to understand. Pictures are mostly irrelevant.

RomanS
12-07-2008, 10:54 PM
/\ Ukrainians

DF
12-07-2008, 10:57 PM
http://samizdata.net/~pdeh/russian_specops_sniper.jpg
/\ Ukrainians

are you sure?

RomanS
12-07-2008, 11:03 PM
are you sure?

positive

:)

RomanS
12-07-2008, 11:10 PM
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2005-12/30/content_543143_2.htm

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2005-12/30/xin_0112023010201252652019.jpg


Ukrainian military personnel smile and wave on their reuturn from Iraq to Lviv airport, December 29, 2005. Ukraine on Thursday completed the withdrawal of its troops stationed in the city of Kut, southeast of Baghdad.[*******]

Mousepad
12-07-2008, 11:18 PM
http://samizdata.net/~pdeh/russian_specops_sniper.jpg

are you sure?

IIRC it's a pic from "Moscow Nord-Ost crisis"

DF
12-07-2008, 11:23 PM
IIRC it's a pic from "Moscow Nord-Ost crisis"

Yeah... 39 of the rebals were killed.

Skopf
12-07-2008, 11:52 PM
Yeah... 39 of the rebals were killed.
probably u mean terrorists ?

DF
12-08-2008, 12:00 AM
probably u mean terrorists ?

uhh yeah... i was thinking of something but didnt they Rebals ake the hostages?

Kutuzov
12-08-2008, 02:06 AM
uhh yeah... i was thinking of something but didnt they Rebals ake the hostages?

Huh? What ?

Kutuzov
12-08-2008, 02:07 AM
http://www.redsoldier.invisionzone.com/uploads/1162402420/med_gallery_1_7_75158.jpg

Russian photos here dude forget Poland.

Vic Vega
12-08-2008, 11:09 AM
Help Svetlana Bakhmina! Russia without dictatorship!

http://bakhmina.ru/en/

User_Name
12-08-2008, 11:12 AM
Help Svetlana Bakhmina! Russia without dictatorship!

http://bakhmina.ru/en/

No politics here, ITS FUKKIN PICS TREAD!!!!

Vic Vega
12-08-2008, 11:20 AM
Hey, guys! I have finally found this damned SURPAT!

http://www.survivalcorps.ru/UserFiles/Image/surpat1.jpg

Mormaeglin
12-08-2008, 11:41 AM
Blagodarju Vic for that camo picture!

Vic Vega
12-08-2008, 11:45 AM
Blagodarju Vic for that camo picture!

Yes, but as you can see, it is quite similar to MARPAT.

JohnnyWalker
12-08-2008, 03:17 PM
http://samizdata.net/%7Epdeh/russian_specops_sniper.jpg

are you sure?

no... this is a picture from the nord-ost theatere seige

eskachig
12-08-2008, 04:27 PM
IIRC it's a pic from "Moscow Nord-Ost crisis"That was a brilliant tactical operation executed perfectly by the SF that was marred terribly by whoever was responsible for coordinating the different government elements together. So many hostage deaths could have been avoided simply by having enough paramedics and ambulances on hand.

JohnnyWalker
12-08-2008, 04:33 PM
sudbin (http://militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=61287), you lucky SOB. Did you photograph more of the planes or of the cars in the rally?

Ronguild
12-08-2008, 04:45 PM
Time to post pics of a future LCM for the Russian navy : The project 20180 "DUGON" (ПР. 20180 "ДЮГОНЬ") :

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/ronguild/1.jpg

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/ronguild/2.jpg

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/ronguild/3.jpg

I haven't managed to find the builder site.

piton_kaa
12-08-2008, 05:17 PM
Ronguild, internetz say in 2006 constructuion of "Dugong" was started at Shipbuilding factory "Volga", Nizhnii Novgorod (http://www.volga-shipyard.com/index.php?section=products&lang=eng) (unfortunately, no info on that very vessel on the site)
Designer - In the mane of R.E. Alekseev Central design office on hydrofoil vessels (http://www.ckbspk.ru/) (only russian, also no info about Dugong on site)

Bigbear
12-08-2008, 07:05 PM
Museum of military counterspionage:

http://www.fishki.net/comment.php?id=45239

shoora
12-08-2008, 07:38 PM
Help Svetlana Bakhmina! Russia without dictatorship!

http://bakhmina.ru/en/
Stupid bookkeeper of YUKOS?
Get out of picture thread!

emind
12-08-2008, 10:12 PM
Help Svetlana Bakhmina! Russia without dictatorship!

http://bakhmina.ru/en/

Helping Sveta Bahmina is a good cause. I've signed the petition - don't know if it'll help. But do not give me this dictatorship stuff. You should know better. (...)

GazB
12-09-2008, 02:09 AM
Pretty suspicious though... she is in prison for 4 years and then just in time for her parole hearing she is suddenly pregnant again. Sounds like she is happy to use her children as a way of getting out of punishment for something she presumably did.
Using loopholes in the law is probably what got her in trouble in the first place, now she is trying to get out of prison early?

User_Name
12-09-2008, 02:54 AM
Pretty suspicious though... she is in prison for 4 years and then just in time for her parole hearing she is suddenly pregnant again. Sounds like she is happy to use her children as a way of getting out of punishment for something she presumably did.
Using loopholes in the law is probably what got her in trouble in the first place, now she is trying to get out of prison early?

Yep, we should call it magic. She use her child to get what she wants.
And before her case there were thousand mothers locked up because of criminal acts and there were no such noise from "free" press and "human rights organizations" to improve their custody situation or to let them free.

TheArmenian
12-09-2008, 03:25 AM
Ronguild, internetz say in 2006 constructuion of "Dugong" was started at Shipbuilding factory "Volga", Nizhnii Novgorod (http://www.volga-shipyard.com/index.php?section=products&lang=eng) (unfortunately, no info on that very vessel on the site)
Designer - In the mane of R.E. Alekseev Central design office on hydrofoil vessels (http://www.ckbspk.ru/) (only russian, also no info about Dugong on site)

Try this site: http://www.hydrofoils.org/

and click on air cavity ships.

Unfortunately a 2 line explanation but no photos.

Vic Vega
12-09-2008, 05:28 AM
Stupid bookkeeper of YUKOS?
Get out of picture thread!

No, you are stupid. You are another stupid idiot, who like Putin and other dictators.

asch
12-09-2008, 05:30 AM
No, you are stupid. You are another stupid idiot, who like Putin and other dictators.
let's ****in' abstain from political bull**** in this thread, huh?

Vic Vega
12-09-2008, 05:36 AM
Yep, we should call it magic. She use her child to get what she wants.
And before her case there were thousand mothers locked up because of criminal acts and there were no such noise from "free" press and "human rights organizations" to improve their custody situation or to let them free.

Of course, russians never protest against government. Russians are the most passive people in the world.

Vic Vega
12-09-2008, 05:41 AM
62465

62466

62467

62468

Vic Vega
12-09-2008, 05:50 AM
That was a brilliant tactical operation executed perfectly by the SF that was marred terribly by whoever was responsible for coordinating the different government elements together. So many hostage deaths could have been avoided simply by having enough paramedics and ambulances on hand.

If this operation would have been brilliant, hostages wouldn't need many paramedics.

Kvakva
12-09-2008, 05:57 AM
No, you are stupid. You are another stupid idiot, who like Putin and other dictators.
This is
Strictly Photos & Video (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
Post photos and discuss them.

You want to talk about politics go to the
Political Discussions and Rants (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
Simply put respect the rules and don't ruin threads. Otherwise f8ck off from this tread.

nsp
12-09-2008, 06:22 AM
Vic Vega:

Stop making Russia look evil, brainwashed "Echo of Moscow" lover.:-P

sudbin
12-09-2008, 06:33 AM
sudbin (http://militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=61287), you lucky SOB. Did you photograph more of the planes or of the cars in the rally?

My duty was to shoot the race. so not always the proper lens was on my camera. But there were no other types flying, planes were not manuevering - just taking off... I have some more images - but they are very similiar.

nsp
12-09-2008, 06:45 AM
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/1747/835al9.th.jpg (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=835al9.jpg)
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/2123/836ot6.th.jpg (http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=836ot6.jpg)

VK-SF
12-09-2008, 06:49 AM
Yes, but as you can see, it is quite similar to MARPAT.
.....or Colombian digital cammo pattern???p-)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60594&page=69

Hazard1024
12-09-2008, 10:34 AM
Flying tanks FTW!

ult
12-09-2008, 11:15 AM
If this operation would have been brilliant, hostages wouldn't need many paramedics.

Now you officially retarted. Yeah, everyone would be just fine without sleeping gas etc. You know better than alpha I guess, or at least you think so. Well, what else we could expect from ""Echo of Moscow" lover".

"Russians are the most passive people in the world."
Все пассивное быдло, один ты рупор демократии.

molokofreak
12-09-2008, 12:09 PM
"Russians are the most passive people in the world."
Все пассивное быдло, один ты рупор демократии.
don't feed the troll!

JohnnyWalker
12-09-2008, 12:34 PM
Thank you NSP

nsp
12-09-2008, 01:24 PM
Thank you NSP
Your welcome.p-)

And anyone have a photos with guys like this MGS3 Ocelot unit?:-)
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6691/ocelotunitrk7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I mean with beret on mask.


I'm unfortunately found only one photo like this on mp.net.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3546/0000265829012oy9.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000265829012oy9.jpg)

Mousepad
12-09-2008, 01:29 PM
Your welcome.p-)

And anyone have a photos with guys like this MGS3 Ocelot unit?
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6691/ocelotunitrk7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I mean with beret on mask.




It's looks like CG, coz maroon beret was introduced in 1995 IIRC, but they have soviet VV-Vnutrennie Voiska (Internal troops) Погоны (english?) you will hardly find any. Or you interested in any branch with beret on top of balaclava?

Cocaine
12-09-2008, 01:32 PM
Now you officially retarted. Yeah, everyone would be just fine without sleeping gas etc. You know better than alpha I guess, or at least you think so. Well, what else we could expect from ""Echo of Moscow" lover".

"Russians are the most passive people in the world."
Все пассивное быдло, один ты рупор демократии.

Do not feed this troll.
Не корми тролля, убьешь ветку.
Любая власть от бога.
Плохая, хорошая ли, но Родина одна и служим мы Родине.
А уж потом власти.

Any authority (power of goverment) from the god.
Bad, whether good, but the Native land (Russia) one we also serve the Native land.
And then authorities (goverment).

nsp
12-09-2008, 01:37 PM
Or you interested in any branch with beret on top of balaclava?
Yes yes. 12345

Cocaine
12-09-2008, 01:37 PM
helping sveta bahmina is a good cause. I've signed the petition - don't know if it'll help. But do not give me this dictatorship stuff. You should know better. (...)

Бля. Куда модераторы смотрят???????
Сука 300 лямов украла и ее на свободу?
Страдалица бля за веру.
Модеры предупредите людей!
Какое отношение вся эта блевота к фото вооружения имеет?

Where moderators look???????
300 millions has stolen also it on freedom?
Moderators warn people!
All this **** to a photo of arms has what attitude?

Mousepad
12-09-2008, 01:41 PM
Бля. Куда модераторы смотрят???????
Сука 300 лямов украла и ее на свободу?
Страдалица бля за веру.
Модеры предупредите людей!
Какое отношение вся эта блевота к фото вооружения имеет?

Dude, stop it, or write at least in English, we're on US forum anyway. Guy got what was due, leave it at that.

Edit: You fast on keyboard :)

AlexMartin2
12-09-2008, 01:42 PM
Cocaine (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=57730), a little advice: delete your posts, this is wrong place to discuss it. Anyway I dont think that non-Russian people will understand your resentment.

sepheronx
12-09-2008, 01:55 PM
62465

62466

62467

62468

I take it these are western made optics? Or is it made in Russia/Belarus?

SniperLane
12-09-2008, 02:04 PM
can anyone post some more photos of russian machinegunners please....

nsp
12-09-2008, 02:25 PM
can anyone post some more photos of russian machinegunners please....

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1431/327bigwp8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3871/pkm7rj6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9348/41mi17qv5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4372/pechenegstrelbaei2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

piton_kaa
12-09-2008, 03:38 PM
Yes yes.
IMO almost impossible - berets are not worn on top of balaklava\headband- it's a bit silly, isn't that?
BTW, according to current uniforms regulations, there's no such item as balaklava (at least in president's order of 2005 or in FSB order of 2008).
According to old MoD order of 1997 (now out of power), cap comforters could be worn as a part of winter set of field uniforms.
Looks like it's all out of uniforms regulations (if only not regulated by some classified orders;))

Karl_Kroenen
12-09-2008, 04:58 PM
IMO almost impossible - berets are not worn on top of balaklava\headband- it's a bit silly, isn't that?
BTW, according to current uniforms regulations, there's no such item as balaklava (at least in president's order of 2005 or in FSB order of 2008).
According to old MoD order of 1997 (now out of power), cap comforters could be worn as a part of winter set of field uniforms.
Looks like it's all out of uniforms regulations (if only not regulated by some classified orders;))

FSB is no longer supposed to wear balaclavas? What kind of regulation is that? What about TsSN?

RomanS
12-09-2008, 05:26 PM
I see any more politics here, I will gladly ask mods to remove a few people.

piton_kaa
12-09-2008, 05:32 PM
FSB is no longer supposed to wear balaclavas? What kind of regulation is that? What about TsSN?
Hm, well... couple of month ago and yesterday they (FSB servicemen) were wearing'em.
Balaklavas, masks and cap comforters are not mentioned in FSB Director's order "On military uniforms for FSB servicemen (with uniforms, insignia and awards wearing regulations) # 130. Issued 03/31/2008
But that doesn't mean those items are not in use ;)
I can ask bout some top secret order comcerning masks, but i suppose in that case i'll be looking like idiot=)
Existing regulations concerning gear&equipment confg in TsSN is not available to me - i'm not in stuff

Foxtrot^(
12-09-2008, 05:50 PM
The LCM looks formidable, but isn't it an offensive weapon? The way the world is today, it appears combatant jobs are a growth industry. I spent years practicing for a Cold War conflict, sometimes it seems like we're closer now than ever. Let's face it we're very good at what we do, I pity who's ever left.

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/ronguild/1.jpg

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/ronguild/2.jpg

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/ronguild/3.jpg

I haven't managed to find the builder site.[/quote]

JohnnyWalker
12-09-2008, 06:20 PM
can anyone post some more photos of russian machinegunners please....


http://i35.*******.com/20qz6mw.jpg
http://i36.*******.com/8yexc0.jpg
http://i37.*******.com/27xplyw.jpg

Hump
12-09-2008, 06:54 PM
Hi Guys, I Google Earthed the city where those LCM's were supposedly being made Nizhnii Novgorod and had a look around. I found a SUBMARINE, that far inland I was amazed. I traced the journey back to the White Sea and also to Saint Petersburg, the captain must have been a bloody superman to navigate through the river system. Absolutely incredible.
****

Bro Jangles
12-09-2008, 08:26 PM
http://i36.*******.com/8yexc0.jpg

suppressed PKM?

asch
12-09-2008, 08:34 PM
suppressed PKM?
nope. AEK-999

Bro Jangles
12-09-2008, 08:39 PM
nope. AEK-999 is that the one that can also use ak74 mags?

asch
12-09-2008, 08:41 PM
is that the one that can also use ak74 mags?
AK-74: 5.45x39mm
AEK-999: 7.62x54mm
;)

Bro Jangles
12-09-2008, 08:43 PM
AK-74: 5.45x39mm
AEK-999: 7.62x54mm
;)
oh ok, haven't caught up with the new russian toys.

asch
12-09-2008, 09:00 PM
oh ok, haven't caught up with the new russian toys.
AEK-999 "Барсук" ("Badger") general purpose machine gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEK-999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEK-999)
not much, but all available info.

LEGEND
12-09-2008, 11:43 PM
Saiga-12 (AK based shotgun)
http://www.youtube.com/v/lUe4NWiOq5A

Someones gonna feel their shoulder in the morning...

ctirip
12-10-2008, 03:47 AM
Time to post pics of a future LCM for the Russian navy : The project 20180 "DUGON" (ПР. 20180 "ДЮГОНЬ").
The correct project number for this vessel is 21820 - not 20180. The first unit was laid down at Volga Shipyard (Nizhniy Novgorod) on February 21, 2006.

jackehammond
12-10-2008, 03:56 AM
http://i35.*******.com/20qz6mw.jpg
http://i36.*******.com/8yexc0.jpg
http://i37.*******.com/27xplyw.jpg

Folks,

Just curious: Why has the Russian Army stayed with a rim round for its light machine guns? What is the advantage of it? I know there is a big disadvantage as the round can not be pushed through the link belt but has to be first extracted from the belt and then pushed forward to be chambered? Any comments welcomed.

Jack E. Hammond

.

mannelig
12-10-2008, 04:53 AM
Folks,

Just curious: Why has the Russian Army stayed with a rim round for its light machine guns? What is the advantage of it? I know there is a big disadvantage as the round can not be pushed through the link belt but has to be first extracted from the belt and then pushed forward to be chambered? Any comments welcomed.

Jack E. Hammond

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:7.62_x_54_R.jpg - watch this and you will undertand why.:)
BTW MG-3 has the same "round to be first extracted from the belt and then pushed forward to be chambered" system :)

Dark Avenger
12-10-2008, 04:54 AM
Convenience? Already in production for a long time, powerful, etc.
Remember the Brits kept the .303" (also rimmed) even after WW-II until they replaced it with the 7,62x51 NATO round. But a rimless version would definitely be better.

EDIT: As Mannelig wrote, non-disintegrating belt feed weapons need to have the round extracted from the belt first.

GazB
12-10-2008, 06:31 AM
I know there is a big disadvantage as the round can not be pushed through the link belt but has to be first extracted from the belt and then pushed forward to be chambered?

That disadvantage can also be an advantage in a machinegun because yanking the round backwards and then slamming if forward into the chamber often shakes off dirt or contamination from the round.

Having a rimmed case also makes it cheaper to make the weapons because the headspacing is less critical AFAIK. Precise headspacing is needed for accuracy on rounds that are not rimmed because of the way the round is supported inside the chamber.

At the end of the day it does the job, and Russia never had a NATO to tell it what sort of ammo it was allowed to use. It is currently sucessfully used in bolt action rifles, semi auto rifles, belt fed machineguns and belt fed gatling guns.
The fastest firing rifle calibre machinegun in service in WWII was probably the Ultra SHKaS at 3,000 rpm firing this round and the current GShG-7.62 4 barrel gatling gun fires at 6,000 rpm. From memory the Ultra ShKAS and the ShKAS used special disintegrating link belts made of hardened steel. I don't know about the GShG.

The rim isn't perfect for large box magazines, though the Bren gun managed to use a 30 round mag. The DPM of WWII had a 60 round drum mag that seemed to to the job.

Bolt
12-10-2008, 07:00 AM
The DPM of WWII had a 60 round drum mag that seemed to to the job
As a little nitpick: DP and DPM had 47 round in their drums, as far as I know.

KoTeMoRe
12-10-2008, 07:02 AM
As a little nitpick: DP and DPM had 47 round in their drums, as far as I know.


Counted 51 rounds fired on some during military service...yes In Albania, those were still kicking!

TheArmenian
12-10-2008, 07:26 AM
As a little nitpick: DP and DPM had 47 round in their drums, as far as I know.

Correct. 47 in the drum is the correct number.



http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/tozman/milsurp/DP-27-1.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/tozman/milsurp/dp-27.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/tozman/milsurp/1526346.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/tozman/milsurp/1526349.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/tozman/milsurp/1526351.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/tozman/milsurp/1494107.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/tozman/milsurp/1498286.jpg

TheArmenian
12-10-2008, 07:40 AM
A family photo

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9027/1695832yp1.jpg

APS (Stechkin) - SR-1 Gyrza (Vektor) - Grach (PYa) - PSS - PM (Makarov)

Kutuzov
12-10-2008, 08:14 AM
Could anyone let me know, whats the first movie called? It looks like a WWII movie and the guy seem to be an Orthodox priest.

Shtrafbat = Penalbatallion.

Dark Avenger
12-10-2008, 08:31 AM
As a little nitpick: DP and DPM had 47 round in their drums, as far as I know.

And 60 for DT/DTM variant. ;)

piton_kaa
12-10-2008, 08:41 AM
63 rounds drum for DT/DTM AFAIK

Dark Avenger
12-10-2008, 10:53 AM
OOPs! Typo.... Thanks I'll correct it.

Shaddieslav
12-10-2008, 11:02 AM
Shtrafbat = Penalbatallion.


Thanx a lot :)

medo
12-10-2008, 02:40 PM
Which truck will russian army use for their Pantsirs? This one or Kamaz truck? Does russian army receive any serial Pantsir-S1 yet?

TheArmenian
12-10-2008, 02:57 PM
^^^
Thanks for the photos. First time I see the Pantzir on a BAZ chassis.

I am not sure, but this may be the setup for the Russian army. Where did you get theses photos Medo?

medo
12-10-2008, 03:27 PM
I get them in one of www.pvo.guns.ru forums, here is the link:

http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/71/248987-4.html

But as I understand, there is still no info about pantsirs for russian army.

Mormaeglin
12-10-2008, 06:04 PM
63 rounds drum for DT/DTM AFAIK

Tell me please, such magazine could be put on regular DPM/DP?

[Odemkirtariy][UA]
12-10-2008, 06:28 PM
I would like to thank everybody here again for this wonderfull thread!
Let's keep on building it!

piton_kaa
12-10-2008, 06:34 PM
Tell me please, such magazine could be put on regular DPM/DP?

Dunno to tell the truth.
DP and DT component were unified and interchangeable, so may be it could.
Also DT/DTM had bipod with foresight, sliding metal butt and were used like infantry MG by crew of destroyed tanks.

Mormaeglin
12-10-2008, 06:54 PM
Spasiba :)

GazB
12-10-2008, 06:55 PM
Tell me please, such magazine could be put on regular DPM/DP?

I assumed so, have seen several photos of the large double stack magazine but it is always on the tank or aviation versions of the weapon.

piton_kaa
12-10-2008, 07:02 PM
Nema za sh'o=)
Welcome!

matthew.manhorn
12-10-2008, 10:59 PM
Awesome Stechkin Armenian, too bad we can't own them in the states :(

GazB
12-11-2008, 02:19 AM
Awesome Stechkin Armenian, too bad we can't own them in the states

For years I have read about the Stechkin, with western experts deciding machine pistols are a military dead end and therefore classifying the Stechkin to the bin of history. It was too big and heavy, and at the same time the rate of fire was too high to control.

Of course even without using the full auto feature the weapon is only slightly heavier than a 45 calibre colt pistol, yet it holds 13 rounds more... almost three times more shots. Now the 9 x 18mm is not a super powerful round but three hits from a 9mm of any case length is not to be sneezed at. Of course three rounds taking off three finger tips cannot be compared to a 45 through the eye socket, but the mild 9mm round was quite accurate from the Stechkins longer barrel and there was no flinch to deal with.
And of course when the target is real close a burst of rounds reminds us why SMGs are so much more effective than pistols.

Then in the 70s and 80s a few western pistols adopted multishot capacity, like the H&K VP-70Z... which looked very cool too, and of course a full auto capable Glock was also released. Unfortunately most of the Gun books are copy and pasted regarding old Soviet weapons so they never got past the big heavy pistol and machine pistols are obsolete. The fact that the Stechkin is still around and in use and new pistols capable of full auto fire are being developed to replace it suggests to me the western experts are completely wrong.

takavar92
12-11-2008, 02:46 AM
Which truck will russian army use for their Pantsirs? This one or Kamaz truck? Does russian army receive any serial Pantsir-S1 yet?

Its the latest version of the Pantsir-S1 on BAZ-6909-019 chassis

GazB
12-11-2008, 03:16 AM
Here is a pdf format document I recently found on Russian hand grenades that I had not read about before, including stun and flash grenades and a FAE handgrenade.

www.be-and-co.com/oaf_pdf/oaf_010766.pdf (http://www.be-and-co.com/oaf_pdf/oaf_010766.pdf)

Have heard about the RGO and RGN grenades but not these.

GazB
12-11-2008, 03:17 AM
BTW also this might interest some... it is a procurement list for the Russian interior ministry for 2007 showing the cost in roubles and US dollars:

http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/3-2007/ff/article1/

TR1
12-11-2008, 03:32 AM
For years I have read about the Stechkin, with western experts deciding machine pistols are a military dead end and therefore classifying the Stechkin to the bin of history. It was too big and heavy, and at the same time the rate of fire was too high to control.

Of course even without using the full auto feature the weapon is only slightly heavier than a 45 calibre colt pistol, yet it holds 13 rounds more... almost three times more shots. Now the 9 x 18mm is not a super powerful round but three hits from a 9mm of any case length is not to be sneezed at. Of course three rounds taking off three finger tips cannot be compared to a 45 through the eye socket, but the mild 9mm round was quite accurate from the Stechkins longer barrel and there was no flinch to deal with.
And of course when the target is real close a burst of rounds reminds us why SMGs are so much more effective than pistols.

Then in the 70s and 80s a few western pistols adopted multishot capacity, like the H&K VP-70Z... which looked very cool too, and of course a full auto capable Glock was also released. Unfortunately most of the Gun books are copy and pasted regarding old Soviet weapons so they never got past the big heavy pistol and machine pistols are obsolete. The fact that the Stechkin is still around and in use and new pistols capable of full auto fire are being developed to replace it suggests to me the western experts are completely wrong.
i have had a similar experience to you Gaz, in regards to Western literature regarding the Stechkin. This forum really proved the fallacy of those claims.

Dark Avenger
12-11-2008, 05:12 AM
Dunno to tell the truth.
DP and DT component were unified and interchangeable, so may be it could.
Also DT/DTM had bipod with foresight, sliding metal butt and were used like infantry MG by crew of destroyed tanks.

If the mag attachment was the same, theoretically the DP could tale the DT mag, but it would obstruct the sights.

Marce
12-11-2008, 06:49 AM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147593
Nobody???
Thanks.

Arbody
12-11-2008, 07:32 AM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147593
Nobody???
Thanks.

here
http://www.interpolitex.rasu.ru/index.php?rubr=2

http://www.army.informost.ru/2008/index.php only in russian

Marce
12-11-2008, 07:42 AM
here
http://www.interpolitex.rasu.ru/index.php?rubr=2

http://www.army.informost.ru/2008/index.php only in russian

Thanks a lot.

Arbody
12-11-2008, 07:49 AM
Thanks a lot.

no problemo
another one
better p-)
http://www.radioscanner.ru/trx/military/severok_k.php

Marce
12-11-2008, 08:15 AM
no problemo
another one
better p-)
http://www.radioscanner.ru/trx/military/severok_k.php

Hahaha; thanks, only russian its very hard to me :), but thanks.

zanuda
12-11-2008, 08:31 AM
It's called Su-25T(M) in Russian service, and a handful at best. Production sort of died after fall of SU, and their combat testing in Chechnya is a matter of debate.



Су-39 (Су-25ТМ)
СОСТОЯНИЕ ПРОГРАММЫ. Серийное производство самолета освоено на заводе в Улан-Удэ.

Cy-39(Cy-25TM)
program status: series production of aircraft open up in Ula**** factory
http://www.aviaport.ru/directory/aviation/459.html
( http://www.airwar.ru/enc/attack/su39.html )

____________

http://www.izvestia.ru/news/news194007?print

www.translate.ru translate:
The uhlan-Udensky aircraft factory has begun flight tests of pre-production models of an attack plane of Su-25UbM. The first flight of the car in has successfully passed 35 minutes in the Cuban situated near Moscow. Till the end of the year first skilled Su-25UbM will be transferred for state tests which will come to the end in 2009. The Russian defensive department, as well as foreign customers, now studies possibility of purchase of party such "сушек". Planes Su-25UbM and Su-25Tm are deep modernisation of plane Su-25 which has well proved in local military conflicts. New attack planes are capable to carry out more effectively fighting operations at any time and in any weather conditions. Су-25УБМ and Su-25Tm differ from base model the modern electronic equipment, more powerful high-precision arms, possibility of the automated performance of the fighting problem raised by reliability, lower expenses on operation, notices ITAR-TASS. According to the main designer "ОКБ Dry", president НПК "Attack planes Dry" Vladimir Babaka, during five-day war in Georgia baptism of fire of Su-25Sm "the Rook" possessing more perfect precisely-navigating complex has actually taken place. "At performance of fighting starts these cars were used conducting, and conducted - Su-25 which have done not pass modernisation, - he has noted. - the assault aircraft has executed all tasks in view. The general conclusion: for destruction of the purposes in the field of fight, and furthermore in mountain district application of attack planes optimal. Even in the remote prospect other aviation complexes carry out such problem cannot more effectively"." Accuracy of navigation and fighting application of uncontrollable aviation arms has increased in one and a half time, and in bombing application has reached level of accuracy of operated means of defeat, - the designer has noted. - there was possible a bombing from various kinds of maneuver, and at navigating bombing from height of 5 km the maximum deviation of an ammunition has made 25 metres "." Earlier some experts declared that attack planes can work effectively only at weak air defence. Today such statements it is given up as a bad job. From fighting starts after damage by rockets of complexes of air defence on a home airfield three Su-25Sm who will be repaired "have returned, - recognised Babak.

medo
12-11-2008, 02:39 PM
In site www.pvo.guns.ru i see, they have great magazine about air defense with a name VKO. Does someone know if there is any option to get this magazines in pdf format to download them?

SniperLane
12-11-2008, 05:26 PM
thx nsp wonderfull how the photos are taking you thru the years :)

GazB
12-11-2008, 05:53 PM
If the mag attachment was the same, theoretically the DP could tale the DT mag, but it would obstruct the sights.The important point is that even though the round is rimmed there are solutions to ensure there are no feeding problems, Large capacity box mags need serious curvature, but a drum or belt feed solve those problems. Belt feed with a box holding the belt is probably the most flexible option but is rarely as reliable as a box or drum.

The first light machinegun that could use magazine(drum) feed or belt feed with a removable barrel in Soviet service was the RP46. It was dropped in favour of the belt fed RPD and then that was replaced by the RPK magazine fed LMG with the RPK-74 taking its place with the move to 5.45mm. Now it seems the Pecheneg has taken Russian LMGs back to 7.62 x 54mm ammo and belt feed again.

Flankerman
12-11-2008, 06:26 PM
I'm currently making the Hobby Boss model Mi-8MTV Hip helicopter - and I'm planning to do it as an Afghan bird - with IR supressors, nose-mounted and rear door-mounted PKT machine guns.

I'm looking for good photos of the internal armour plate fitted in the cockpit - and the ammo drums and feed to the nose PKT.

Any such photos would be very useful....

Thanks

Ken

TR1
12-11-2008, 07:43 PM
Ill believe these claims of series production Su-39s entering service when I see them flying around.


The first Su-25UBM flying will be good news though, these two seaters will assist the Su-25SM force nicely.

GazB
12-11-2008, 09:24 PM
Hopefully with the experience in the war in Georgia perhaps they will add MANTA DIRCM systems to the Su-25SM upgrade, or perhaps even switch from the SM to the TM upgrades in some modified form. I think much of the expensive built in stuff used in the TM could be replaced with an external pod like the French Damocles targetting pod they are adopting for their Flankers.

(info on MANTA: http://www.scorpion.com.gr/manta.asp )

Zmey
12-11-2008, 11:02 PM
Question for the smallarms experts. Preferably with hands-on experience.

Are AK-47 7,62x36 magazines interchangable with AK-74 5,45x39 magazines? Namely can you load 5,45 rounds (less than full 30) into standard 7,62 magazine and fire w/o misfeeding?

TIA

RomanS
12-11-2008, 11:59 PM
Question for the smallarms experts. Preferably with hands-on experience.

Are AK-47 7,62x36 magazines interchangable with AK-74 5,45x39 magazines? Namely can you load 5,45 rounds (less than full 30) into standard 7,62 magazine and fire w/o misfeeding?

TIA

Negative

AK-47 Magazine for 7.62x39 will not properly load the 5.45 amunition. And the same goes for the 5.45x39 magazines loading 7.62 rounds.

the 7.62 mags are wider, 5.45 will just be loose in it.

GazB
12-12-2008, 12:49 AM
Are AK-47 7,62x36 magazines interchangable with AK-74 5,45x39 magazines? Namely can you load 5,45 rounds (less than full 30) into standard 7,62 magazine and fire w/o misfeeding?

If you look carefully at an AK-47/AKM round you will see that its sides are not parallel. Its base is slightly wider than near the neck of the round. This means that when you stack a whole lot together they will form a natural curve which is why the 7.62 x 39mm magazines are curved so they fit in correctly. Note the reason the rounds are tapered is to make it less likely that an expanded case with stick in the chamber. A very wide base means that you a sticking a small narrow end of the bullet into the widest possible hole, which means more reliable feeding. A .22lr bullet on the other hand for example is feeding a .22 calibre diameter bullet into a .22 calibre diameter hole so there is less margin for error.

The 5.45mm round is also tapered but to a much lessor extent so its magazines have less curve. AK magazines for the 5.56mm rounds are nearly straight because the 5.56mm has almost a parallel sided case. That is the best way to differentiate the various calibres in the AK-100 series. The most curved are the AK-103 and AK-104 in 7.62 x 39mm, the next most curved is the AK-74M and the AK-105 in 5.45 x 39mm and the almost straight are the AK-101 and AK-102 in 5.56 x 45mm.

Zmey
12-12-2008, 01:52 AM
Negative

AK-47 Magazine for 7.62x39 will not properly load the 5.45 amunition. And the same goes for the 5.45x39 magazines loading 7.62 rounds.

the 7.62 mags are wider, 5.45 will just be loose in it.

Thanks dude!

Vovka
12-12-2008, 08:41 PM
THHough my previous post seemes to stand ignored, i would want to repeat myself.

Can anybody give any info or good pictures on AEK 971 assault rifle?

Mousepad
12-12-2008, 11:44 PM
THHough my previous post seemes to stand ignored, i would want to repeat myself.

Can anybody give any info or good pictures on AEK 971 assault rifle?

Will do? http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as34-e.htm

Vovka
12-12-2008, 11:46 PM
Will do? http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as34-e.htm


ANy info or pictures of the weapons in use in the Russian military? because it seems to be a great rifle... and also seems like a better replacement for the Ak then the AN94

LEGEND
12-13-2008, 12:16 AM
Does anyone know of a source with some good closeup photos of Ural-4320 based BM-21 Grad? I want to build a model, need some reference material. Thanks.

piton_kaa
12-13-2008, 06:45 AM
THHough my previous post seemes to stand ignored, i would want to repeat myself.
Can anybody give any info or good pictures on AEK 971 assault rifle?
protortype taken part in "Abakan" tender
http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo04av/bo04av03/01abakan/ab005.jpg
some early prototypes (or modernisations? dunno)
http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo04av/bo04av03/02aek971/aek97101.jpg
http://i048.radikal.ru/0807/16/b22cec7dc5b6.jpg
Also here's (http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo04av/bo04av03/01abakan/abakan.htm)interesting issue and picz on that tender (only in russian)
Some mods
AEK-972
http://i007.radikal.ru/0807/3c/89271059ace5.jpg
AEK-973C
http://i064.radikal.ru/0807/b5/4d17996175e1.jpg

ANy info or pictures of the weapons in use in the Russian military? because it seems to be a great rifle... and also seems like a better replacement for the Ak then the AN94
Looks like it's still in testing. Some rumours AEK-971 was adopted by "some_nobody_knows_what_exactly_but_for_sure_elite_spetznaz_unit". But only rumours

Mousepad
12-13-2008, 07:51 AM
Looks like it's still in testing. Some rumours AEK-971 was adopted by "some_nobody_knows_what_exactly_but_for_sure_elite_spetznaz_unit". But only rumours

IIRC It's about "Abakan". AEK on the other hand was tested with paras, marines, infantry and tankers - contractors only, was highly aproved (read couple blogs in forum treads about it). BUT will it be adopted in forseable future - some_nobody_knows_what_exactly_but_for_sure :) And no pix watsoever.

piton_kaa
12-13-2008, 08:12 AM
IIRC It's about "Abakan". AEK on the other hand was tested with paras, marines, infantry and tankers - contractors only, was highly aproved (read couple blogs in forum treads about it). BUT will it be adopted in forseable future - some_nobody_knows_what_exactly_but_for_sure :) And no pix watsoever.
Нененене Дэвид Блэйн =)
AN-94 officially adopted by MoD IIRC in 1997 or so and was seen in army.
EK-971 and mods are in testing including even army tests in "some_nobody_knows_what_exactly_etc_units" and was seen in Chechnia. p-)

Mousepad
12-13-2008, 08:31 AM
Нененене Дэвид Блэйн =)
AN-94 officially adopted by MoD IIRC in 1997 or so and was seen in army.
EK-971 and mods are in testing including even army tests in "some_nobody_knows_what_exactly_etc_units" and was seen in Chechnia. p-)

Mmmkay let it be your way.

Попырюсь по интернету попристальней ))

On the other hand, Runet close to empty on any concrete info about future of both AN and AEK. I personaly don't know any person who used them in anger, or saw it in real deal, althought AN is not a rare beast on military firing ranges, and i personally shot from it few times, even as i'm not a firearms zealot. Let's wait till VK-SF show up, or maybe RomanS can ask any info from his Hi-speed Low-drag friends.

Prolix
12-13-2008, 08:49 AM
Many thanks to all contributors, I'm just recovering from a computer mishap where I lost all my files, its very nice to be able to recover all these amazing pictures :)

piton_kaa
12-13-2008, 08:54 AM
On the other hand, Runet close to empty on any concrete info about future of both AN and AEK.
unfortunately =(
and all friends (in GRAU, in army ar navy units, even those ex-colleagues working in Chechnia nowadays) say noth concrete (like conspiracy of silence =))

sepheronx
12-13-2008, 11:40 AM
protortype taken part in "Abakan" tender
http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo04av/bo04av03/01abakan/ab005.jpg
some early prototypes (or modernisations? dunno)
http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo04av/bo04av03/02aek971/aek97101.jpg
http://i048.radikal.ru/0807/16/b22cec7dc5b6.jpg
Also here's (http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo04av/bo04av03/01abakan/abakan.htm)interesting issue and picz on that tender (only in russian)
Some mods
AEK-972
http://i007.radikal.ru/0807/3c/89271059ace5.jpg
AEK-973C
http://i064.radikal.ru/0807/b5/4d17996175e1.jpg

Looks like it's still in testing. Some rumours AEK-971 was adopted by "some_nobody_knows_what_exactly_but_for_sure_elite_spetznaz_unit". But only rumours

What a beautiful rifle! Hopefully (sometime soon in the future), Russia will adopt this as their main rifle.

Who knows though, they could release an alternative (even cheaper).

Mormaeglin
12-13-2008, 01:21 PM
unfortunately =(
and all friends (in GRAU, in army ar navy units, even those ex-colleagues working in Chechnia nowadays) say noth concrete (like conspiracy of silence =))

Guys here on forums were saying that batch of those avtomaty were/or are field tested in Chechenija.

Adux
12-13-2008, 01:23 PM
Indian, their leadership seems to be more intelligent than some of the posters on this board and has agreed to pay the difference.
Besides, most of the people in Russia still don't understand what do they need "5-6 aircraft carriers" for.

No they havent, they agreed to renegotiate for that pile of scrap metal.

gunman
12-13-2008, 03:48 PM
THHough my previous post seemes to stand ignored, i would want to repeat myself.

Can anybody give any info or good pictures on AEK 971 assault rifle?

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7899/aek971rus01ng4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8656/aek971rus02xp7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

TheArmenian
12-13-2008, 03:58 PM
Mi-28 Flight

http://**********/tracks/1295084.html?v=ea1d37d1faeb365405a4d87d61e2974b

Marce
12-13-2008, 05:45 PM
THHough my previous post seemes to stand ignored, i would want to repeat myself.

Can anybody give any info or good pictures on AEK 971 assault rifle?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3uwMuyKCYrE&feature=related

TR1
12-13-2008, 06:00 PM
No they havent, they agreed to renegotiate for that pile of scrap metal.


I would love to know how it is a pile of scrap.

Hazard1024
12-13-2008, 06:29 PM
I would love to know how it is a pile of scrap.

In his little world if there is no american flag - scrap.

DRA
12-13-2008, 06:30 PM
I would love to know how it is a pile of scrap.

It is pile of crap because his national pride got hurt when Indian government was told to "bend over or take a hike", it choose to bend over...
Indians realize that at this time their defense industry is infertile: Insas rifle, Arjun tank,Tejas jet, their own domestic aircraft carrier project.

They need Russians because Russians beat competition from the West in 3 very important categories: pricing, support and technology transfers.

T-95
12-13-2008, 06:33 PM
Mi-28 Flight

http://**********/tracks/1295084.html?v=ea1d37d1faeb365405a4d87d61e2974b

nice video :)

Adux
12-13-2008, 06:37 PM
i was always against the project, it is definitly not worth the amount in question, it is shame to put those lovely mig's on that. it is pile of scrap metal because of its age and operational tempo, And, Indian government has not agreed to anything, just they willing to talk.

Even Russian wont pay 2.8 billion dollars (excluding airwing) is just not worth for an aircraft carrier which is already 20 years, with a handicapped operational tempo, a dangerous landing trap(check the island, bang in the middle) and in comparison with tonnage very poor aircraft carrying capacity. India could have made the italians built a brand new carrier at the same price.
Russian

i hope you know where the lifts are located on this for starters.

DRA
12-13-2008, 06:38 PM
In his little world if there is no american flag - scrap.
He is Indian.

I do not think it is a pile of crap but I wouldn't want something like that end up in the Russian Navy.

TR1
12-13-2008, 06:42 PM
The age of the carrier is not very great Adux, frankly the amount of time it spent (pre-rebuild) in Soviet Navy service was tiny. It's not like it was worn out by two decades of use.

We will see about it's operational tempo, the somewhat inhibiting location of one of the lifts doesn't make the ships useless.

And I would like to see some numbers, regarding the Italins building a Cavor type ship for the Indian navy, in the same time and for the same money. Keep in mind real work was not started well past 2000, because the full agreement was signed only then. Not to mention the airwing that comes with the deal, the Italins offer nothing of a similar complementary package.

piton_kaa
12-13-2008, 07:25 PM
Guys here on forums were saying that batch of those avtomaty were/or are field tested in Chechenija.
yep, they say
and friends of mine say the same
but again nothing concrete

jackehammond
12-13-2008, 09:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:7.62_x_54_R.jpg - watch this and you will undertand why.:)
BTW MG-3 has the same "round to be first extracted from the belt and then pushed forward to be chambered" system :)

Folks,

Thanks for the various answers. But I remember that while the British did stick to the .303 (keeping the Vickers MG was one reason) the fact it was a rimmed round caused all sorts of headaches for the RAF when they adopted the Browning 1919 as their aircraft machine gun.

Jack E. Hammond


.

jackehammond
12-13-2008, 09:40 PM
The age of the carrier is not very great Adux, frankly the amount of time it spent (pre-rebuild) in Soviet Navy service was tiny. It's not like it was worn out by two decades of use.

We will see about it's operational tempo, the somewhat inhibiting location of one of the lifts doesn't make the ships useless.

And I would like to see some numbers, regarding the Italins building a Cavor type ship for the Indian navy, in the same time and for the same money. Keep in mind real work was not started well past 2000, because the full agreement was signed only then. Not to mention the airwing that comes with the deal, the Italins offer nothing of a similar complementary package.

Folks,

Never figured out why the Indian Navy never attempted to purchase one of the old retired US super carriers that use oil fired boilers. The main reason for retiring many of them (eg the Kitty Hawk and Coral Sea) was the massive manpower expense of manning them and rebuilding the older style boilers that propel them. If there is one thing that India is not short of is lower cost naval personnel and people who know how to rebuild the older style warships and boilers!

Jack E. Hammond

.

Kopassus
12-13-2008, 10:04 PM
Mi-28 Flight

http://**********/tracks/1295084.html?v=ea1d37d1faeb365405a4d87d61e2974b
Thanks! Not as impressive as Mi-24/35, but still a nice piece of toy!

Flyboy77
12-14-2008, 12:36 AM
Some new photos of the Su-35BM.

http://66.45.238.155/uploads/photos/29442.jpg

http://66.45.238.155/uploads/photos/29441.jpg

http://66.45.238.155/uploads/photos/29440.jpg

http://66.45.238.155/uploads/photos/29439.jpg

XRR496
12-14-2008, 12:45 AM
aps 1951 / apb 1972

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8914

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8923

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8922

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8921

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8920

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8919
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8918

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8917

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8916

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=725&pictureid=8915

jklv
12-14-2008, 12:55 AM
Hey guys, any more info about this machine? http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7636/fqxr146i3601he1.jpg

XRR496
12-14-2008, 01:01 AM
gaz tiger

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8928
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8934
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8933
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8932
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8931http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8930
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8929
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8927
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8926
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8925
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=726&pictureid=8924

XRR496
12-14-2008, 01:14 AM
ptrd ptrs kpv/t 14.5mm

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8953
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8952
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8951
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8950
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8949
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8948
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8947
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8946
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8945
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8944
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8943
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8942
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8941
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8940
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8939
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8938
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8937
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8936
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=727&pictureid=8935

XRR496
12-14-2008, 01:35 AM
rgo rgn

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8974http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8975http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8973http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8972http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8971http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8970http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8969http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8968http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8967http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8965http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8964http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8962http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8961http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8960http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8959http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8958http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8957http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8956http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8955http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=728&pictureid=8954

XRR496
12-14-2008, 01:42 AM
nr-40/43 + rep.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8987http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8986http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8985http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8984http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8983http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8982http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8981http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8980http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8979http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8978http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8977http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=729&pictureid=8976

Vovka
12-14-2008, 01:46 AM
THANK YOU ALL FOR INFO ON AEK, really aprreciated. Especially for the Rosoboronexport posters and the youtube link to AEK during an exercise.

XRR496
12-14-2008, 01:55 AM
12-ga "Poleva" sabot slug

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=730&pictureid=8994
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=730&pictureid=8993http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=730&pictureid=8992http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=730&pictureid=8991http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=730&pictureid=8990http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=730&pictureid=8989http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=730&pictureid=8988

XRR496
12-14-2008, 01:59 AM
Funny.... :)

XRR496
12-14-2008, 02:10 AM
btr-152 and zil-157

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=9006http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=9005http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=9004http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=9003http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=9002http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=9001http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=9000http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=8999http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=8998http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=8997http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=8996http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=731&pictureid=8995

XRR496
12-14-2008, 02:28 AM
crazy train and other stuff...

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9020http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9021http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9019http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9018http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9017http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9016http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9010http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9009http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9008http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9011http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9012http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9013http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9015http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9014

XRR496
12-14-2008, 02:30 AM
secret t-95 + bonus :)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9025http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9024http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9023

.....










http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=732&pictureid=9022

Afro-European
12-14-2008, 05:15 AM
Nice pix XRR496.Keep up the good job.

_GDS_
12-14-2008, 05:29 AM
secret t-95 + bonus :-)

According to this material http://otvaga2004.narod.ru/xlopotov_8/tank_t72ba_01.htm its T-72BA tank.

Which states:


Первое появление Т-72БА на публике состоялось в июле 2000 года во время проведения выставки вооружений Урал Экспо Армс – 2000 на нижнетагильском артиллерийском полигоне Старатель. Для демонстрации возможностей курганских тягачей Русич, Уралвагонзавод на правах радушного хозяина, предоставил машину для нагрузки транспортера. Этой машиной оказался Т-72БА готовившийся к сдаче в войска. На нем к тому моменту еще не был смонтирован комплекс НДЗ, отсутствовали бортовые экраны. Дабы семдесятдвойка своим несколько недоделанным видом не смущала публику и высоких гостей, машину старательно укутали в брезент, да так, что как-то различить можно было, только часть ствола. Не обошлось и без курьеза: видео с этой демонстрации показанное в одной из передач Ударная сила 1 канала, сдобренное комментариями о скором появлении в России нового перспективного танка, породило волну слухов о том, что под брезентом скрывалась принципиально новая российская боевая машина. Реальность была на много проще и банальнее…

Adux
12-14-2008, 06:19 AM
Folks,

Never figured out why the Indian Navy never attempted to purchase one of the old retired US super carriers that use oil fired boilers. The main reason for retiring many of them (eg the Kitty Hawk and Coral Sea) was the massive manpower expense of manning them and rebuilding the older style boilers that propel them. If there is one thing that India is not short of is lower cost naval personnel and people who know how to rebuild the older style warships and boilers!

Jack E. Hammond

.

Jack,

US dont sell super carriers, if i may qoute Adm.Suresh mehta, the chief of Indian navy about the kitty hawk "she is old and moreover i dont want her".
vikramaditya(gorshkov) is going to be equipped with italian gas turbine engines.

Difool
12-14-2008, 06:24 AM
Congratulations to Russia for winning Miss World contest.:)
http://img.interia.pl/wiadomosci/nimg/Najpiekniejsza_Rosjanka_2194184.jpg

Adux
12-14-2008, 06:26 AM
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2375_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2349_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2348_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2346_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2345_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2342_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2341_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2340_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2331_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2328_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2327_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2326_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2324_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2320_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2313_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2310_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2306_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2305_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2301_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/77938515vg7.jpg

Adux
12-14-2008, 06:31 AM
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2346_sm.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2345_sm.jpg


http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2324_sm.jpg

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/IMG_2301_sm.jpg



Look at that Island Command Structure, it is bang in the middle of that Carrier, there is no other carrier in the world with such a serious drawback!


Everbody except the USA was ready to give us a carrier if they had any or even build us. Russians are qouting for that junk right now $2.8 billion dollars and $800 million extra for those MiG-29K. that is $3.6 billion
Now for $2.8 billion Finnacaerti would have built us a 60,000 ton carrier in 2002 prices!
You cannot land and take off at the same time, nor can have you uninterrupted operational tempo because of all lifts being the center, (there goes the advantage of a STOBAR over a CATOBAR out the window), because the island structure is bang in the middle, landing on that thing is dangerous than ever before in the history of carriers, and not mention in comparison with tonnage because of the inefficient design, 10 MiG-29K cannot be put there.

If we paid the italians the same amount of money in 2002, we would have got

a carrier in 2008
60,000 tons
20 years more life span,
efficient design
more airplanes
far more automation!

jaybe
12-14-2008, 06:33 AM
If we paid the italians the same amount of money in 2002, we would have got



you would have got a far bigger price extension for sure

Adux
12-14-2008, 06:34 AM
This my conversation with another indian on another board


Not possible in the given time line.

Firstly, you must understand that IN is the most professional service of the Indian Armed forces. Not the IAF, not the IA, but the IN. And IN like indigenous products unless it cannot be home made. IN chief clearly said that they don't mind if the Russian carrier is doomed to fail, a 2 year lull in our carrier forces is not detrimental to the IN at all. IN wants only the indigenous carriers. Even if we scuttle the deal today, IN would not worry about it.

Secondly, if we get into a deal with the Italians or French today, it would take atleast 2-3 years to understand what technologies they are willing to provide us. Then we will study on how it will be helpful to us. Then after another 3 years of bickering we will sign a contract atleast 5-6 years from today. Another 6 years to build the carrier and we will have the carrier by 2018 minimum. By then we will already have 2 carriers of our own.

We are stuck with the Gorshkov, the russians know this and can easily blackmail us over this. Nothing can be done about it. We just have to be careful the next time, thats all.


Actually it is. It takes the Italians to make a new Carrier exactly 3 years of Vikramaditya size, a Nimitz class is made in 5 years including sea trials in the US.
I actually understand far better than you give me credit for, The P-17A, which is for 7 Stealth Ships, of which will 2 will be built outside, since IN shipyards are FULL. Indian Navy wouldnt have mind the Italians who are building us 1 Tanker(15,000 tons), expected to build 2 more, It was placed by the middle of 2008 and expected to reach us in early 2010.
It is not the IN Chief who said that, rather Previous chief Adm.Prakash
You forget that Italians are our consultants and design providers for IAC-1 at Cochin. We already have all technologies, design and whatever we need, all we need is a shipyard that can churn it out in time. Italians built the Cavour which is the design of IAC-1. There is nothing to understand here.
I agree we are stuck with Gorshkov, but anything more than $1.5 billion(ie $700 million more than contract prices) for that junk is just not worth it!

Adux
12-14-2008, 06:37 AM
The inefficiency of the design is clear from this


http://www.stratfor.com/files/mmf/7/7/77e112fe04353b19ccdb3f1f9be5e2f61b58aa57.jpg





http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/11430_carrier.jpg


http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/13yqdk2.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/ciwsairwingsnewld6.jpg

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/Adux1982/e8mlh2.jpg

The more I think of Vikramaditya, the more I see a Ship that is going to make so headache for us in the future, Intially a supporter of the Deal, now I feel the cost-benefit ratio doesnt make it a viable option, We lost out on a valuable 8 years, It is UNACCEPTABLE on a security perspective, Today if we go to war with Pakistan over the Mumbai incident, we are doing it without a aircraft carrier, a strategic advantage lost because of our penny pinchers, inept navy and our all weather friends!

UNACCEPTABLE

Adux
12-14-2008, 06:42 AM
the above is from planeman, got it from keypub

and here is another two replies from keypub which i found interesting



Assume a Mig-29K compliment on the Vikram of about 30 (optimistically at around 2020 timeframe).

Assume Mig-29K availibility rate of 90% (optimistically). 27 available Migs.

Assume a takeoff every 3 mins or so (optimistically). 27 Migs in air in about 90 mins. When the last Mig takes off, the first Mig has already spent 90 mins in the air, which means that the first 4+ Migs to take off will be the Upaz equipped buddy-buddy fuellers.

So, in practicality, the package will contain about 20 hard kill birds. Of course this assumes that it's a balls to the wall offensive posture with no CAPs for the carrier.

Other than exercises, that will hardly ever be the case. So, realistically, the offensive/interdiction mission would be about 10-15 birds with some birds remaining back for CAP, buddy refueling, and alert status.

I would doubt that the Vik can even carry 30 Mig-29Ks and 8-10 helos. I would put the Mig complement closer to 20 than 30. So, the strike package would be around 10 birds. Which brings me back to the "need" for the Vik. The ship will soak up over 2000 crew and massive chunk of the IN's O&M budget to put 10 strikers in the air. Does the IN really need the Vik?


I doubt she will carry more than 16. For starters, she doesn't have enough hangar space for 30 Mig29K. Further, she also needs to carry a minimum of some 2-3 Ka-31 for AEW and preferably also 2-3 Ka-28 for ASW.

As to the question of whether or not needed:
- For IAC, the projected air group will likely consist of a minimum of 12 combat aircraft along with 10 helicopters. The vessel is estimated to carry as many as 30 aircraft on board, with 17 parked in the hanger below. i.e. numbers not be much different from Viraat and Vikramaditya.
- The current airgroup of Viraat (which has capacity for about 30 aircraft and helicopters) isn't much different either. While IN received 23 Mk51 plus 6 T Mk 60 Sea Harriers, several were involved in air accidents and at least some written off as a result, leaving a similar number (16-20).
"The current air group includes 12 or 18 Sea Harrier V/STOL fighters and seven or a eight Sea King or Kamov 'Hormone' ASW helicopters. In emergencies, the Viraat can operate up to 30 Harriers."
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Ships/hermes2.html

CVF will displace 65,000t compared to max 40,000t for IAC.

Adux
12-14-2008, 06:43 AM
On other note,

I found it interesting that Vikramaditya was launched on Indian Navy Day.

jaybe
12-14-2008, 06:45 AM
sorry still missed it's unsufficiency

Adux
12-14-2008, 06:51 AM
you would have got a far bigger price extension for sure

There is something called cost-benefit ratio. A Nimitz is made at 5 billion, so NO. there wouldnt have been at this level. Not mention all the advantage of a new carrier with a clean approach. I am voicferous russian supporter, most russians will acknowledge that about me over here. but let us agree on something, Sevmash messed up, we lost 8 years and possibly more money; Russians are going to have their future projects with india in jepoardy,
Italians havent had a history of price extenstions with us, they are far more proffessional than both India and russia in my opinion atleast in ship building.

jaybe
12-14-2008, 06:57 AM
they are far more proffessional than both India and russia in my opinion atleast in ship building.


err... are you sure? ok they can make more comfortable WC, no problem, but far more professional?

Adux
12-14-2008, 07:02 AM
let me post the video of the launch again,
http://www.zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/0024221/ (http://www.zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/0024221/)

can some one please translate for me, also is there any other video of the launch possibly in english

Adux
12-14-2008, 07:06 AM
err... are you sure? ok they can make more comfortable WC, no problem, but far more professional?

They have kept their contracts with us, that is professional to me

metberkut
12-14-2008, 07:20 AM
let me post the video of the launch again,
http://www.zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/0024221/ (http://www.zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/0024221/)

can some one please translate for me, also is there any other video of the launch possibly in english

They didn't say anything interesting. They claim that it is not and old and rebuild carrier, but that it is so rebuild it is practically new.:roll:
Now the work will continue almost only inside the carrier, and that it will go on sea trails in 2011.

Adux
12-14-2008, 07:21 AM
if there are any ship building experts, can you please explain to me why that Island structure cant be moved to the extreme side, like the mast. It will enable launch of two aircrafts in quick succession as well as simulatneously landing an aircraft. improving the operational tempo, anyways we are paying the same as a new carrier.


PS: Regarding the cost's being floated on the internet, I dont think they are true. I think there is no Russians will as for 2.8 billion for that carrier(exculding the aircrafts). It makes no economical sense. Heck, Russians could built as a brand new carrier for that amount. There is a lot of media war games being played here. just my thoughts

Vympel
12-14-2008, 09:16 AM
Thanks! Not as impressive as Mi-24/35, but still a nice piece of toy!

Not impresive? Hm whats about so impressive with mi-24? Nevertheless, 28 have better performance, today it's basicly same 24, but without "belly":) But we soon will see new rockets for 28, and maybe new avionics.

Josef
12-14-2008, 12:28 PM
милициа в ост тиморе.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1827/vosttimorewn3.jpg

MZKT
12-14-2008, 04:49 PM
So the Indian Navy has not retained the MARS-PASSAT (NATO "Sky Watch") planar radar originaly fitted on Adm. Gorshkov.

Because it's not working. The one on Admiral Kuznetzov is out of operation either. The producer was a design bureau in Ukraine and after split-up of SU nobody cared to bring the radar to operation. Mars-Passat project is dead.

Adux
12-14-2008, 04:49 PM
Ron,

I wouldnt know much regarding the question, but most Indian Ships from now on are going to be equipped with the Israeli MF-STAR

Ronguild
12-14-2008, 04:55 PM
Because it's not working. The one on Admiral Kuznetzov is out of operation either. The producer was a design bureau in Ukraine and after split-up of SU nobody cared to bring the radar to operation. Mars-Passat project is dead.


Ron,

I wouldnt know much regarding the question, but most Indian Ships from now on are going to be equipped with the Israeli MF-STAR

OK, thanks.

Adux
12-14-2008, 04:58 PM
why cant that Island structure and center lift be moved to the side.
it will create better operational tempo and fighter carrying capacity?

Flamming_Python
12-14-2008, 05:19 PM
Thanks for the info Adux, boy that carrier really looks like a dead-weight :(

Revive
12-14-2008, 05:34 PM
Adux,
can u explain why Vik is a waste of money? I dont see how better it is with the larger local built carrier. The slightly larger carrier at most project 1 or 2 more fighter to the sky since it is also a skijump design.

Adux
12-14-2008, 05:35 PM
Read the last 2 pages of this thread, i have explained it in detail.

cheers

adux

TR1
12-14-2008, 05:38 PM
I'm a bit tired of these useless "Cavour" comparisons. It is made to operate EIGHT vertical take off jets. The Keypublishing boys hate of the Gorshkov doesn't change that fact.

It's sustained speed is also lower, something to consider with a carrier.

Adux
12-14-2008, 05:44 PM
Russian,

comparisions is not with cavour(27,000 tons) but IAC-1(cavour xxl, 37,500 tons)

Vikaramadity(Viki) was always a compromise, she in her earlier form was never meant to be a clean carrier, therefore flaws on her side for the conventional meaning of carrier is all but expected. Do understand, she unlike before doesnt have any more missiles in her belly nor is she clean carrier to put out excellent sortie rates. When sevmash(we are friends arent we, so lets blame the yard) qoutes a price to equal that of a freshly constructed clean carrier for viki, people will get offended.

TR1
12-14-2008, 05:54 PM
Well, don't get me wrong, the contract is a mess, I fully admit that. Weather its because of currrency inflation, underestimation of the work needed to be done, utter incompetence by officials desperate to get the contract, or all of the above, it's still a mess. I just have a but more faith in the final product silencing much of the criticism.


The MiG-29K programe by comparison is coming pretty well, Indian pilots should be profficient in operating it by the time Gorky is done.

Adux
12-14-2008, 06:01 PM
even i have faith in the final product, the indian navy isnt a set fools i am sure, (i hope), but at the cost of a brand new carrier, anyone will tell you it is not worth it.
Gorshkov, for a carrier is not worth 2.8 billion dollars. (contract price was 800 million), where have you heard a carrier refit at 2.8 billion


the other 700 million of the original contract is spend on a brilliant item. i am a big supporter and a fan of the mig 29k, the mig have certainily outdone themselves here.

GazB
12-14-2008, 09:57 PM
Thanks for the various answers. But I remember that while the British did stick to the .303 (keeping the Vickers MG was one reason) the fact it was a rimmed round caused all sorts of headaches for the RAF when they adopted the Browning 1919 as their aircraft machine gun.

Well probably because the Browning 1919 machinegun was designed to use the rimless 30-06 round rather than the rimmed 303 round. The Soviets had no trouble with their airforce using various rifle calibre machineguns in their aircraft with rimmed ammo.


Never figured out why the Indian Navy never attempted to purchase one of the old retired US super carriers that use oil fired boilers.

When negotiations started in the late 1990s the US had trade sanctions imposed on the Indians because of their nuclear weapons. The problem with US weapons is that the US is pro Pakistan. Recently the Indians "bought" some landing craft from the US that the US was going to scrap anyway. It cost them something like 80 million dollars which is dirt cheap but the US demands were exceptional. The US was afraid they might use the vessels to attack Pakistan so they demanded the right at any time to board these vessels night or day to ensure they weren't to be used against Pakistan. The Indians didn't care because they wanted to learn about landing vessels so they could design their own. They weren't intending to use the US vessels for any attack, they would use the vessels they developed and produced for that. Having said that the terms of use for any old US carrier which are used hard would not be any better and of course what aircraft will you put on them? I am sure Boeing will demand F-18s so the cost of the cheap carrier will likely be well over $10 billion dollars. (note for 126 MRCA aircraft the F-18 could only be part bought... is 50 F-18s and x number of other aircraft types because of the high cost of the F-18s would not allow for 126 aircraft for anywhere near 10 billion US dollars.

XRR496... such a beautiful pistol... especially the suppressed model and the other pictures a nice too, thanks.


But I have to say Interiors are not done so arent the Island structure, in my opinion it is just the painted hull and ramp thats been done.

AFAIK the Indian Navy hasn't even decided on the weapon and electronics fit.


anyways we are paying the same as a new carrier.

Rubbish. If you paid the extra amount asked for then you would be paying the same for a new carrier but without the air component. A modern western air component even of that small size would cost as much as the new carrier again.


Because it's not working. The one on Admiral Kuznetzov is out of operation either. The producer was a design bureau in Ukraine and after split-up of SU nobody cared to bring the radar to operation. Mars-Passat project is dead.

The huge phased array radars used in the S-300 and S-300V SAM systems would probably be as good if not better anyway.


why cant that Island structure and center lift be moved to the side.
it will create better operational tempo and fighter carrying capacity?

The size of it perhaps? What will counter its weight on the other side of the vessel?
The Indian Navy approved the design presumably. There is no point in whining that the design is wrong now that they are putting it in the water.


When sevmash(we are friends arent we, so lets blame the yard) qoutes a price to equal that of a freshly constructed clean carrier for viki, people will get offended.

So why are you complaining about the design? Was it a lucky dip for the Indian navy? They negotiated for more than 10 years on this project did they not think to ask for a smaller island?


even i have faith in the final product, the indian navy isnt a set fools i am sure, (i hope), but at the cost of a brand new carrier, anyone will tell you it is not worth it.

My understanding was that this was to be a gap filler and a learning exercise. Having a relatively low sortie rate would be a huge problem on a US carrier because it has to get an enormous number of aircraft into the air all the time. For a strike mission you need strike aircraft, tanker aircraft, fighter escorts, jammer escorts etc etc. For the Gorshkov a flight of 4 fighters is what you will need most of the time and with no steam catapaults to set and reset they should be able to position and launch fairly quickly.

Shock horror... Sevmash shipyard has to ask for more money rebuilding a Kiev class vessel that was half warship and half aircraft carrier into a full blown aircraft carrier. Considering the thousands of carriers they have already built it is obviously fraud. :roll: Yawn.

Adux
12-15-2008, 01:43 AM
gazb,

i have enormous respect for your views, but what you are writing now is quite biased, doesnt look at it from my angle. cost-benefit ratio.
I will refrain from further comments.

thanks.

GazB
12-15-2008, 05:24 AM
Anyway, on to a more pleasant subject. I recently got an aircraft magazine that mentioned a new targetting pod for the Su-34 called the Solluk. Has anyone got any pictures of a strange aircraft targetting pod from a recent airshow or noticed a strange object hanging from an Su-34?