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soutikghosh
03-15-2009, 04:47 AM
Video of SU-30MKI doing Cobra manouver and vertical spin/stall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In3Jbpzw2OI

jaybe
03-15-2009, 05:01 AM
looks like computer simulation

soutikghosh
03-15-2009, 05:06 AM
looks like computer simulation

Yes, it's a 3D animated video.

Moskit
03-15-2009, 05:34 AM
http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigbigdsc_0519_2.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigf4_mg_4658_o.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigy2dsc_0461.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigy3dsc_0463.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigy4.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigf2_mg_4637_o.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigf5_mg_4661_o.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigbigdsc_0379.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigbigdsc_0491.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigbigdsc_0520.jpg

http://img.vl.ru/i/news/add_files/bigbigdsc_0527.jpg

Can someone pls post there equipment ?

jaybe
03-15-2009, 06:54 AM
i see Gorka for sure :)

bombermonk
03-15-2009, 10:41 AM
Can someone pls post there equipment ?

Did you really had to quote all the pics?

kinney_bmx
03-15-2009, 11:26 AM
Can someone pls post there equipment ?
O M G
DOnt quote all of the damn pics. 2 will suffice

medo
03-15-2009, 12:27 PM
I have questions about Pantsir and Tor-m2.

KBP Tula said , that they produced 24 Pantsir-S1 systems in 2008, and production started in 2007. Last year Syria got 6 Pantsirs and UAE will this march get first 4 Pantsirs and later this year another 8 Pantsirs. How many Pantsirs russian army got last year and how many this year? I'm sure first Pantsirs will go in PVO school and than in units.

Anyone know, what is the range of Tor-M2 missiles? Tor-M1 missiles have 12 km range, but they say Tor-M2 missiles will have improved range. Will it be in category of Pantsir, which is 20 km?

medo
03-15-2009, 12:48 PM
It is small picture, but red text say, it is ASP-500 aircraft system for fighting with fires.

Moskit
03-15-2009, 01:39 PM
i see Gorka for sure :)

No i mean the black vest

Sry. for the quote of all pics :)

Nuclear_Warrior
03-15-2009, 02:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhi0DFVMHYk

The user has a lot of videos of the first Chechnya war.

gunman
03-15-2009, 02:22 PM
What is the helicopter weapon shown on the right side "BAZALT" add ?

АSP-500 Fire-extinguishing Air System

is intended for localizing forest fires and for suppressing fire storms during technogenic calamities and disasters over areas of up to 1000 sq m at an ambient air temperature in carrier take-off zone and in the fire centre of - 5°С to + 45°С under any weather conditions. At this, failure-free operation probability is 0.97 min. In terms of costs efficiency the air systems intended for delivery of a fire-extinguishing mixture (water) are considerably superior to other traditional delivery means such as artillery (by 70 times) or rocket systems (by 300 times). Application of traditional discharging fire-extinguishing air systems results in only minor amounts of dropped fire-extinguishing mixture reaching the fire zone.This is because of fire zone screening with hot air ascending convection current, as a result the required accuracy of water mass drop centre grouping with relation to the fire location cannot be ensured.
АSP-500 ensures a 100 percent delivery of fire-extinguishing compound to the fire zone, furthermore, explosive method of compound dispersing creates an airborne shock wave as an additional effect.
АSP-500 can be filled both at field or at factory facilities. ASP-500 makes it possible to involve military aircraft in accomplishing missions aimed at fire extinguishing without extra expenditures for fixed-wing or rotary-wing aircraft fleet modifications and without ingaging extra-fire brigades and special-purpose equipment. FSUE "SRPE "Bazalt" is in a position to offer its technology of ASP-500 utilization from the civil aviation aircraft (IL-76 or AN-12). The proposed technology will ensure ASP-500 massed applocation. One carrier aircraft is capable of delivering over 100 systems to the fire zone with fire extinguishing over an area of 10 plus hectares. The problem of safety assuring is solved both through the design solution and due to the elimination of dangerous fragmentation and blast effects beyond the aerosol cloud, as well as owing to organizational measures determining the bomb application procedure.
ASP-500 can be efficiently used in radioactive contamination regions as it permits to eliminate or to significantly reduce firemen direct contact with radioactive products of forest combustion.
Application of ASP-500 as a first-strike measure for suppressing intense burning will allow for rapid suppressing of the most dangerous fire zones thus reducing the intensity of ascending air convection current which prevents the precipitating of aerosol resulting at liquid direct drop from the currier aircraft.In doing so, the efficiency of subsequent use of traditional discharging systems can by improved tenfold. Thus, the combined application of ASP-500 and systems of direct liquid (mixture) drop from the carrier fixed-wing or rotary-wing aircraft ensures the maximum efficiency at extinguishing fires over wide areas.

ignat8080
03-15-2009, 03:46 PM
Top secret special purpose device )))

http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww324/ignassio_bush/bigy3dsc_0463.gif

KoTeMoRe
03-15-2009, 04:30 PM
Top secret special purpose device )))

http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww324/ignassio_bush/bigy3dsc_0463.gif


Ahah a dumbell!

SniperLane
03-15-2009, 04:37 PM
guess they found some time to train during the operation... afterall there was a sniper team looking right at that balcony, so no worrys if some of the bad guys tried to do some trick involving throwing of an explosive device on the roof p-)

kangur
03-15-2009, 04:48 PM
Watch the video - the dumbell was used to break the windows in the apartment.

K.

KoTeMoRe
03-15-2009, 04:55 PM
Watch the video - the dumbell was used to break the windows in the apartment.

K.


It's Podpolkovnik Dumbell to you...p-)

Karaahmetoglu
03-15-2009, 05:18 PM
I just read on Wiki's page(so I am taking it with a grain of salt), that Kazakhstan (has bought I am assuming) 15 Mig 35's. Please tell me this is true!!!!

K-5
03-15-2009, 10:00 PM
Rare photo of flight of Su-35 without canopy taken from aboard Yak-40 with the left door removed. This flight is a part of making the movie "The Mirrored Wars" at the South of Russia.
Looks like operator bailed in mid flight (charred ****). Sucks to be a pilot at this speed.

I just read on Wiki's page(so I am taking it with a grain of salt), that Kazakhstan (has bought I am assuming) 15 Mig 35's. Please tell me this is true!!!!
Sorry but it isn't. The only potential user of "the ultimate MiG" out there will be India if they chose it over western contenders.

Karaahmetoglu
03-15-2009, 10:00 PM
Definetley not.


Lies LIES LIES. If not sell them the Mig 35 NOW! Make that an order of 50!


Put it on my tab.

TR1
03-16-2009, 04:05 AM
Looks like operator bailed in mid flight (charred ****). Sucks to be a pilot at this speed.

Sorry but it isn't. The only potential user of "the ultimate MiG" out there will be India if they chose it over western contenders.
Well, Russia too, they committed to the type, will recieve some within 3 years.

-Fighter-
03-16-2009, 04:56 AM
Botlikh mountain brigade.

http://zvezdanews.ru/video/army/0028071/

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-16-2009, 05:35 AM
Botlikh mountain brigade.

http://zvezdanews.ru/video/army/0028071/

Interesting!Some more:

Su-34 [/URL] modernization
http://zvezdanews.ru/video/army/0028077/ (http://www.dict.cc/?s=modernization+act)

NAPO assembly line modernization to speed up the production
[url]http://zvezdanews.ru/video/army/0028090/

It seems the RuAF is not very happy with the current Su-34 and Mi-28N...

void
03-16-2009, 06:02 AM
Interesting!Some more:

Su-34 modernization
http://zvezdanews.ru/video/army/0028077/

NAPO assembly line modernization to speed up the production
http://zvezdanews.ru/video/army/0028090/

It seems the RuAF is not very happy with the current Su-34 and Mi-28N...

Why do you say they are not very happy? The factory is doing deep modernisation of their production line, I dont think they are radically changing the plane itself.

komaR
03-16-2009, 09:22 AM
Bit old news but beautiful SU-34

http://zvezdanews.ru/video/army/0028077/

TheArmenian
03-16-2009, 10:56 AM
I have questions about Pantsir and Tor-m2.

KBP Tula said , that they produced 24 Pantsir-S1 systems in 2008, and production started in 2007. Last year Syria got 6 Pantsirs and UAE will this march get first 4 Pantsirs and later this year another 8 Pantsirs. How many Pantsirs russian army got last year and how many this year? I'm sure first Pantsirs will go in PVO school and than in units.

Anyone know, what is the range of Tor-M2 missiles? Tor-M1 missiles have 12 km range, but they say Tor-M2 missiles will have improved range. Will it be in category of Pantsir, which is 20 km?

Can you please provide the source of this information. Thanks in advance.

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 11:03 AM
Can you please provide the source of this information. Thanks in advance.

Deagle.com (http://www.deagel.com/Air-Defense-Systems/Tor-M2_a000375002.aspx)

Don't know the reliability of the source but.....

Specifications
Accommodation: Crew 3

Dimensions: Height 5.1 m, Length 7.5 m, Width 3.3 m

Weights: Max Weight 34,000 kg (74,956 lb)

Performance: Max Range 500 km (270 nm), Top Speed 65 kph (40 mph), Weapon Max Range 12,000 m (39,370 ft)

Other: Engaged Aerial Targets 4

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 11:07 AM
Well, Russia too, they committed to the type, will recieve some within 3 years.

In my view, there is really no point in getting the Mig-35 for Russia. Russia should just concentrate on the 5th gen aircrafts and provide more funding to R&D in terms of airforce. Mig-35 isn't a bad aircraft, but now that 5th gen is making more appearances, no point in going with the older gen aircrafts. Just my $0.02

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 11:22 AM
We won't be able to afford too many. 5th generation aircraft are very very expensive.

Really? Did not know that the price of the PAK FA was already out.

If you are talking only about the overpriced F-22, then fine. But the F-35 is expected to hit airforces in country's that do not spend as much as Russia does.

Anyway, what they say they spend, and what they do actually spend, I bet are two different things. Russia is capable of affording 5th Gen (maybe not all off the bat, but able to build enough). And probably, they spend not nearly enough on current budget on military, because if they did, they would have a lot more weaponry and newer weapons (besides missile technology), then they do now. Because what, India's military spending is at that of Russia's, and they have tons of newer equipment and more of them, then Russia.

Edit: and anyway, if they need an aircraft that will fill the time being, upgrading the SU-27's would be far cheaper, and better then just purchasing a newer aircraft that will have similar capabilities.

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 11:31 AM
A 5th generation aircraft is usually very expensive, lots of tech goes into it like radar, etc. I don't think real the price is out, but I read somewhere an estimate that for the price of one Pak-Fa, a large amount (I don't remember exactly how much) of Su-35s can be purchased. Hopefully Roman will show up today and clear things up. He knows more about this issue then me.

But, compare on how long the SU-35BM would last and then that of the PAK FA. And anyway, it would be very expensive in the beginning, because it is new technology. Is Russia really gonna get the PAK FA? They could very well use the PAK FA as the tech provider/development aspect, and build something as good or what not, to build other aircrafts. Right now, they are building the PAK FA for Indian specifications. So something else may be released. Maybe not technically better, but maybe cheaper. Who knows.

Anyway, here are photos of Tor-M2

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5214/torm22.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torm22.jpg)
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7733/torm21.th.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torm21.jpg)

medo
03-16-2009, 11:42 AM
Can you please provide the source of this information. Thanks in advance.

Source is forum on http://www.pvo.guns.ru and http://www.arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=67088&cid=24

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 11:45 AM
India is supposed to get the Pak-Fa, but it will be a different version (different software for example)


The Pak-Fa indeed should be much better then the Su-35BM, but a handful of aircraft aren't going to do our airforce any good. We need sufficient numbers, and I doubt Pak-Fa will be coming in sufficient numbers any time soon. Our Mig fleet needs upgrading right now. Good place to put money is to modernize some of those Migs to SMT standard. I wonder if they can be modernized to Mig-35 standard (which is supposed to be a different airframe).

Besides, I doubt there is a need to rush to get the Pak-Fa. Will we be fighting an opponent with a 5th generation aircraft any time soon?

No. But will they be fighting an enemy with Mig-29's and SU-27's anytime soon? They did not use them during their campaign in Georgia, so I doubt they would be using them regardless, unless they all of a sudden went to war with, oh I don't know, lets say Ukraine? But they would not go against their brothers and sisters like that.

At that, they need to upgrade all of their aircrafts. Obviously, they have knowledge and the technical know how for advanced weaponry and aircrafts (Mig-35, SU-35BM, SU-30MKI/MKK, etc.) but they don't have these for themselves, only for customers.

shardana
03-16-2009, 12:20 PM
India is supposed to get the Pak-Fa, but it will be a different version (different software for example)


The Pak-Fa indeed should be much better then the Su-35BM, but a handful of aircraft aren't going to do our airforce any good. We need sufficient numbers, and I doubt Pak-Fa will be coming in sufficient numbers any time soon. Our Mig fleet needs upgrading right now. Good place to put money is to modernize some of those Migs to SMT standard. I wonder if they can be modernized to Mig-35 standard (which is supposed to be a different airframe).

Besides, I doubt there is a need to rush to get the Pak-Fa. Will we be fighting an opponent with a 5th generation aircraft any time soon?

I agree with you that Russian Air Force need a good number of SU 35 and MIG35 (lower level) but with which kind airplane do you want to cope F22 and F35 (soon) ? Also the F18E is a bad client. Now it is less probable for the world luck but in an hypotetical Georgian escalation scenario with what Russia could try to restablish balance if USAF moves some Raptors in caucasian theatre? I believe that PAK_FA is a big priority not the highest but to cancel the program could be a strategic mistake

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 12:54 PM
I agree with you that Russian Air Force need a good number of SU 35 and MIG35 (lower level) but with which kind airplane do you want to cope F22 and F35 (soon) ? Also the F18E is a bad client. Now it is less probable for the world luck but in an hypotetical Georgian escalation scenario with what Russia could try to restablish balance if USAF moves some Raptors in caucasian theatre? I believe that PAK_FA is a big priority not the highest but to cancel the program could be a strategic mistake

It would be next to impossible for the US to justify the move of F-22's to the Caucasian area, and the only area is Georgia (other then that, where else would they put them?). And in that case, Russia would highly depend on their SAM systems, which are of high quality and are very capable. But yes, in an air to air fight, Russia would require something that is on par, and until PAK FA is released, there isn't anything. But in the mean time, Russia does not even need Mig-35's or SU-35BM's, instead, they should just heavily upgrade their current one (Mig-29 to SMT level and SU-27SKM or something close to the SU-35BM but just using upgrades). Other then that, purchasing newer aircrafts but that are still of the same generation as the upgrades (4++ and such) would be a waste of money.

Fasatron
03-16-2009, 01:07 PM
Russian Army in Abkhazia, small photo report

http://segodnia.ru/index.php?pgid=4&gallery_id=29&imgnum=1

Teymuraz
03-16-2009, 01:16 PM
Even US, the most wealthy country in the world, with the wtf biggest defence budget on the planet cannot build significant numbers of f-22 due to its cost. Still, US strike force is fully concentrated over "old" designs like f-15,16,18. But USAF were properly funded and serviced during that time, while RUAF were actually abandoned, most aircrafts were stuck to the ground, and that influenced planes a lot(corrosion, outdated equipment e.t.c).

Furthermore, the first new airframes to join RUAF in the last 20-25 years were those Algerian Migs. As far as i know their airframes are not really new, but at least they were not flying, or standing outside without proper servicing. So the whole air force now faces major problems with airframes, last inspection of MIG-29 park showed that vividly. So we have a situation where we have a large number of 4-gen jets, that will be able to fly for 10 years tops and a plane that MIGHT hit the production line by 2015(according to officials, but i do not expect them untill at least 2017 tbh, though i still hope they will start service earlier). We need a major repairs, upgrades and new 4-gen airframes to substitute those, that wont be able to fly soon. Furthermore, PAK-FA is supposed to be air supperiority fighter more then a bomber. Thats why we need MIGs-35, SUs-34 and 35 that will form a base of our strike force, with air supperiority fighter like PAK-FA. Of course thats just my opinion, based on different articles, news e.t.c, but if this way will be selected, i will be able to believe we can fulfill it, but if our officials start yelling that we will just make large numbers of PAK FA, i will never believe those plans to be real, just another blah-blah.

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 01:24 PM
Even US, the most wealthy country in the world, with the wtf biggest defence budget on the planet cannot build significant numbers of f-22 due to its cost. Still, US strike force is fully concentrated over "old" designs like f-15,16,18. But USAF were properly funded and serviced during that time, while RUAF were actually abandoned, most aircrafts were stuck to the ground, and that influenced planes a lot(corrosion, outdated equipment e.t.c).

Furthermore, the first new airframes to join RUAF in the last 20-25 years were those Algerian Migs. As far as i know their airframes are not really new, but at least they were not flying, or standing outside without proper servicing. So the whole air force now faces major problems with airframes, last inspection of MIG-29 park showed that vividly. So we have a situation where we have a large number of 4-gen jets, that will be able to fly for 10 years tops and a plane that MIGHT hit the production line by 2015(according to officials, but i do not expect them untill at least 2017 tbh, though i still hope they will start service earlier). We need a major repairs, upgrades and new 4-gen airframes to substitute those, that wont be able to fly soon. Furthermore, PAK-FA is supposed to be air supperiority fighter more then a bomber. Thats why we need MIGs-35, SUs-34 and 35 that will form a base of our strike force, with air supperiority fighter like PAK-FA. Of course thats just my opinion, based on different articles, news e.t.c, but if this way will be selected, i will be able to believe we can fulfill it, but if our officials start yelling that we will just make large numbers of PAK FA, i will never believe those plans to be real, just another blah-blah.

I find it funny, that with the US and their huge budget in military compared to Russia's, Russia was still capable of advancing military technology. It was the 90's that slowed her down, but she is getting back on her feet pretty quickly, and in the next 10 years, Russia may have military equipment that may not be predecessors of the Soviet Era (only ones I can think of may be missile technology). With newer tanks and Aircrafts around the corner, I do not see why to spend so much money on older stuff. By 2015, I can see Russia buying and producing a fair amount of PAK FA's. But you are right, they need other aircrafts to fill other rolls. Especially cheap aircrafts to fill rolls against countries that do not have a considerable powerful airforce. PAK FA would be overkill against countries like Georgia or Ukraine or the such. Upgraded SU-27's and Mig-29's would be perfect, and YAK-130 for other rolls (CAS and or strike). Also, Because of the large defense budget US had, and fighting two enemies (and let me remind you, these enemies already did not have a force capable of deterring US (especially Iraq, after losing a lot to Iran in the Iran Iraq war and the US intervention in the 90s). And look what happend to the economy?

SU-27SKM - Such a beautiful aircraft. Would be perfect for a cheap upgrade to already a great plane.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2880/su27skm1.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su27skm1.jpg)
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8359/su27skm2.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su27skm2.jpg)
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6339/su27skm3.th.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su27skm3.jpg)

somrandom
03-16-2009, 01:30 PM
No. But will they be fighting an enemy with Mig-29's and SU-27's anytime soon? They did not use them during their campaign in Georgia, so I doubt they would be using them regardless, unless they all of a sudden went to war with, oh I don't know, lets say Ukraine? But they would not go against their brothers and sisters like that.

At that, they need to upgrade all of their aircrafts. Obviously, they have knowledge and the technical know how for advanced weaponry and aircrafts (Mig-35, SU-35BM, SU-30MKI/MKK, etc.) but they don't have these for themselves, only for customers.

This is only partially correct.

The Su-27SM ongoing upgrade is rumored to be better than the Su-30MKI by RuAF officials.

The Su-25 and Su-24 are also undergoing upgrades, and I believe the MiG-31 is slated for "BM" standard upgrades.

In 2009, all 3 models of heavy bombers are getting avionics upgrades.

The PAK-FA is set to fly, and 2-3 regiments of Su-35BMs have been approved.

Hardly shabby.

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 01:34 PM
This is only partially correct.

The Su-27SM ongoing upgrade is rumored to be better than the Su-30MKI by RuAF officials.

The Su-25 and Su-24 are also undergoing upgrades, and I believe the MiG-31 is slated for "BM" standard upgrades.

In 2009, all 3 models of heavy bombers are getting avionics upgrades.

The PAK-FA is set to fly, and 2-3 regiments of Su-35BMs have been approved.

Hardly shabby.

Not shabby at all. And when you say all 3 moddels of Bombers, you are talking of TU-22, TU-160, and TU-95 right? Also, What exact upgrades are the SU-24 and SU-25 going through? Is the SU-25 going through the TM upgrade? or is it the SU-39 based upgrade? And the talk of the Mig-31 upgrade was for a long time already, and have not seen anything of it. But it would be awesome to upgrade those beasts. But they are slated to be extinct after the PAK FA is released (same with SU-27 and Mig-29).

Snoshi
03-16-2009, 01:37 PM
This is only partially correct.

The Su-27SM ongoing upgrade is rumored to be better than the Su-30MKI by RuAF officials.

The Su-25 and Su-24 are also undergoing upgrades, and I believe the MiG-31 is slated for "BM" standard upgrades.

In 2009, all 3 models of heavy bombers are getting avionics upgrades.

The PAK-FA is set to fly, and 2-3 regiments of Su-35BMs have been approved.

Hardly shabby.
Can you name me the numbers... That is important.. Not what Russian officials says.

somrandom
03-16-2009, 01:46 PM
Right now, they are building the PAK FA for Indian specifications.




No. They are building their own PAK-FA.

The first flight date for the HAL FGFA is much later.

Don't know where your sources are, but they are bad or you are not using any.

somrandom
03-16-2009, 01:48 PM
Can you name me the numbers... That is important.. Not what Russian officials says.

Which numbers do you want?

The ones from god himself? :roll:

The ones from my fleet of private satellites that hover over Russian air bases?

shardana
03-16-2009, 01:52 PM
Can you name me the numbers... That is important.. Not what Russian officials says.

I don't think that upgrade the current fleet only is a correct approach it depends by the status of the planes from what i see in the news I don't think that upgrade the MIG29 is a good idea!

somrandom
03-16-2009, 01:59 PM
Not shabby at all. And when you say all 3 moddels of Bombers, you are talking of TU-22, TU-160, and TU-95 right? Also, What exact upgrades are the SU-24 and SU-25 going through? Is the SU-25 going through the TM upgrade? or is it the SU-39 based upgrade? And the talk of the Mig-31 upgrade was for a long time already, and have not seen anything of it. But it would be awesome to upgrade those beasts. But they are slated to be extinct after the PAK FA is released (same with SU-27 and Mig-29).


Su-25SM:

Russian Air Forces decided to upgrade about 40 per cent of surviving Su-25s (about 80 aircraft) in March 1999. Single-seaters will be modified to Su-25SM standards; two-seaters to Su-25UBM configuration; new variant uses some equipment and systems developed for Su-25TM (Su-39). Su-25SM features Panther fire-control system with Kopyo-25 radar in a rebuilt nose (not pod-mounted, as on Su-25TM), giving compatibility with a wider range of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons; Klen PS laser range-finder is relocated below fuselage. Revised cockpit with a new HUD and two large colour LCD MFDs, but retains standard analogue flight instruments. Irtysh EW system, with new RWR, MAWS and automatic control of chaff and flares. Structural changes limited to life-extension modifications and provision for nose-mounted radar. Sukhoi Shturmovik Consortium promises improved maintainability and a service life extended to 2,500 flying hours.

Su-24M2

-GLONASS/SAT navigation
-Glass cockpit
-New weapon control systems for latest A2A (R-73) and A2G weapons

MiG-31BM

AFAIK, 2 have been sent to Lipetsk last year for flight testing. We'll see what happens there.

-----------

Also yes, the Tu-22M3, Tu-95MS and Tu-160 are all getting equipment for precision bombing (or more precise dumb-bomb) use.

Also, the 95MS/160 are getting Kh-555/101/102 capability.

The Tu-22M3 - not sure, the Kh-32 (upgraded Kh-22M) has been lurking around, though unupgraded models may be able to use the new missile already.

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 02:52 PM
Su-25SM:

Russian Air Forces decided to upgrade about 40 per cent of surviving Su-25s (about 80 aircraft) in March 1999. Single-seaters will be modified to Su-25SM standards; two-seaters to Su-25UBM configuration; new variant uses some equipment and systems developed for Su-25TM (Su-39). Su-25SM features Panther fire-control system with Kopyo-25 radar in a rebuilt nose (not pod-mounted, as on Su-25TM), giving compatibility with a wider range of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons; Klen PS laser range-finder is relocated below fuselage. Revised cockpit with a new HUD and two large colour LCD MFDs, but retains standard analogue flight instruments. Irtysh EW system, with new RWR, MAWS and automatic control of chaff and flares. Structural changes limited to life-extension modifications and provision for nose-mounted radar. Sukhoi Shturmovik Consortium promises improved maintainability and a service life extended to 2,500 flying hours.

Su-24M2

-GLONASS/SAT navigation
-Glass cockpit
-New weapon control systems for latest A2A (R-73) and A2G weapons

MiG-31BM

AFAIK, 2 have been sent to Lipetsk last year for flight testing. We'll see what happens there.

-----------

Also yes, the Tu-22M3, Tu-95MS and Tu-160 are all getting equipment for precision bombing (or more precise dumb-bomb) use.

Also, the 95MS/160 are getting Kh-555/101/102 capability.

The Tu-22M3 - not sure, the Kh-32 (upgraded Kh-22M) has been lurking around, though unupgraded models may be able to use the new missile already.

Only weapons out of those I see usefull in upgrading are the SU-24 (and not fully useful imo, because the SU-34 is out) and the TU-22M3 (and that will probably be replaced once something else is released). I dunno, but I still feel that replacing these old icons of the SU is the best way to go.

TR1
03-16-2009, 02:53 PM
There should be around 20 Su-25SMs in service today (including losses on the recent war), and some more coming int his year.

Su-24M (upgrade by Gefest & T btw, not the Su company) should be at least 24, very likely more (they got 5 last year, heard some reports they got as many as 20 though, another 10 reported this year).

Su-27SM numbers are around 48, and steadily increasing, so at least that program is going well.

3 Su-34s are in service today as we know(58 new examples ordered through 2015). Another 5 are due this year.

2 MiG-31BMs as has been mentioned.

Add to that the 24 Algerian MiG-29SMT, and this year is a good one for Russian AF. With another 60 Su-35BM sometime through the nest decade, and commintment to buying at least some MIG-35s, AF should be potent enough untill PAK-FA arrives.

Also this year 50 helicopters are due to be delivered to air force, that includes brand new Mi-8s (6 delivered recently, another 6 due soon), ANSAT, Mi-28 and Ka-50, and upgrades to existing choppers.

Tu-22m3 can indeed use Kh-32, its very similar to Kh-22 in any case.

TR1
03-16-2009, 02:56 PM
Only weapons out of those I see usefull in upgrading are the SU-24 (and not fully useful imo, because the SU-34 is out) and the TU-22M3 (and that will probably be replaced once something else is released). I dunno, but I still feel that replacing these old icons of the SU is the best way to go.
Wheres the money? There will not be enough Su-34s till at least 2020 to replace Su-24, and the m2 upgrade is very cost effective.
PAK-FA will not enter serious numbers till 2020 and past. The 60 Su-35s will be deperatly needed to suppliment it. Even then it will not be ordered in huge numbers.
Su-25SM does its job quite well, nothing can really replace it at the moment anwyays.
MiG-31BM I want to see advance too, PAK-FA will probably not have the same supersonic performance and range, so the 31 is still the best aircraft qualified for "PVO" service.

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 02:56 PM
There should be around 20 Su-25SMs in service today (including losses on the recent war), and some more coming int his year.

Su-24M (upgrade by Gefest & T btw, not the Su company) should be at least 24, very likely more (they got 5 last year, heard some reports they got as many as 20 though, another 10 reported this year).

Su-27SM numbers are around 48, and steadily increasing, so at least that program is going well.

3 Su-34s are in service today as we know(58 new examples ordered through 2015). Another 5 are due this year.

2 MiG-31BMs as has been mentioned.

Add to that the 24 Algerian MiG-29SMT, and this year is a good one for Russian AF. With another 60 Su-35BM sometime through the nest decade, and commintment to buying at least some MIG-35s, AF should be potent enough untill PAK-FA arrives.

Also this year 50 helicopters are due to be delivered to air force, that includes brand new Mi-8s (6 delivered recently, another 6 due soon), ANSAT, Mi-28 and Ka-50, and upgrades to existing choppers.

Tu-22m3 can indeed use Kh-32, its very similar to Kh-22 in any case.

Hmm... Kind of disappointing in terms of the numbers. Those are small number of aircrafts being upgraded.


Wheres the money? There will not be enough Su-34s till at least 2020 to replace Su-24, and the m2 upgrade is very cost effective.
PAK-FA will not enter serious numbers till 2020 and past. The 60 Su-35s will be deperatly needed to suppliment it. Even then it will not be ordered in huge numbers.
Su-25SM does its job quite well, nothing can really replace it at the moment anwyays.

Their budget is on par with India, yet India is capable of replacing tons of their old equipment. I don't see how Russia cannot.

TR1
03-16-2009, 02:58 PM
Consider that in the 90 and early 2000s nothing got done. SO considering the time frame it isnt that bad. Adequate for the tasks at hand I'd say.

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 03:00 PM
Consider that in the 90 and early 2000s nothing got done. SO considering the time frame it isnt that bad. Adequate for the tasks at hand I'd say.

I guess. But being that the planes are upgraded, I don't see how it can take all that long to upgrade them.

TR1
03-16-2009, 03:07 PM
moneeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyy.......and lack of it. people didnt want to see anything upgraded, they wanted quick $ to steal. Only now is that changing somewhat, if we take together all the upgraded and delivered aircraft over the past few, and next few years, the numbers are not bad at all. Russia isnt goign to be invading Europe anytime soon, don't be expecting 50 Su-34s yearly ;).

TR1
03-16-2009, 03:09 PM
Hmm... Kind of disappointing in terms of the numbers. Those are small number of aircrafts being upgraded.



Their budget is on par with India, yet India is capable of replacing tons of their old equipment. I don't see how Russia cannot.
More than Indias, by far probably. Don't listen to reported numbers. However, even if we take our rampant corruption and inefficiency out of the equation, does India have:
A Navy anywhere near in size? no
a huge and expensive nuclear triad? no
the same number of military satelites launched yearly? no
an air force anywhere near as big, with as diverse of a fleet to maintain? no
ground equipment numbers anywhere as close? no
far and away the best air defense system in the world(takes money to keep it at that level)? no

sepheronx
03-16-2009, 03:23 PM
More than Indias, by far probably. Don't listen to reported numbers. However, even if we take our rampant corruption and inefficiency out of the equation, does India have:
A Navy anywhere near in size? no
a huge and expensive nuclear triad? no
the same number of military satelites launched yearly? no
an air force anywhere near as big, with as diverse of a fleet to maintain? no
ground equipment numbers anywhere as close? no
far and away the best air defense system in the world(takes money to keep it at that level)? no

hahaha, you got me there.

But no, Corruption is bad, but not nearly as bad as everyone points it out. If the Russian government places orders for specific amount of planes, in a time frame, then are expected to pay more after delay's, I think there is going to be a lot more at stake in terms of your job and your freedom.

The Russian airforce, next to their navy and SAM systems are my favorite then any other country. But Russia is slow at upgrading, but at least the upgrades of these planes and the newly built planes, are of higher quality and way better capabilities then those during the SU.

TR1
03-16-2009, 03:26 PM
Interesting!Some more:

Su-34 modernization
http://zvezdanews.ru/video/army/0028077/

NAPO assembly line modernization to speed up the production
http://zvezdanews.ru/video/army/0028090/

It seems the RuAF is not very happy with the current Su-34 and Mi-28N...
And rightfully so, sensor suit on Mi-28 is still not decided on/finalized. Apparently production Mi-28s will not have mast mounted radar, as of yet.

K-5
03-16-2009, 04:18 PM
Su-25SM:

Russian Air Forces decided to upgrade about 40 per cent of surviving Su-25s (about 80 aircraft) in March 1999. Single-seaters will be modified to Su-25SM standards; two-seaters to Su-25UBM configuration; new variant uses some equipment and systems developed for Su-25TM (Su-39). Su-25SM features Panther fire-control system with Kopyo-25 radar in a rebuilt nose (not pod-mounted, as on Su-25TM), giving compatibility with a wider range of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons; Klen PS laser range-finder is relocated below fuselage. Revised cockpit with a new HUD and two large colour LCD MFDs, but retains standard analogue flight instruments. Irtysh EW system, with new RWR, MAWS and automatic control of chaff and flares. Structural changes limited to life-extension modifications and provision for nose-mounted radar. Sukhoi Shturmovik Consortium promises improved maintainability and a service life extended to 2,500 flying hours.

Su-24M2

-GLONASS/SAT navigation
-Glass cockpit
-New weapon control systems for latest A2A (R-73) and A2G weapons

MiG-31BM

AFAIK, 2 have been sent to Lipetsk last year for flight testing. We'll see what happens there.

-----------

Also yes, the Tu-22M3, Tu-95MS and Tu-160 are all getting equipment for precision bombing (or more precise dumb-bomb) use.

Also, the 95MS/160 are getting Kh-555/101/102 capability.

The Tu-22M3 - not sure, the Kh-32 (upgraded Kh-22M) has been lurking around, though unupgraded models may be able to use the new missile already.
Su-25SM doesn't have radar nor is capable of carrying it in a pod like Su-39 does. It's similar essentially to A-10C upgrade but it's nowhere near Su-39 standards. Su-24M2 have their capability greatly extended, but lack of latest smart weapons in average units circumvents these abilities. IMO, there are much more than 24 operational M2s(close to 50?).

TR1
03-16-2009, 04:20 PM
Su-25SM doesn't have radar nor is capable of carrying it in a pod like Su-39 does. It's similar essentially to A-10C upgrade but it's nowhere near Su-39 standards. Su-24M2 have their capability greatly extended, but lack of latest smart weapons in average units circumvents these abilities. IMO, there are much more than 24 operational M2s(close to 50?).
Really? Great news if true, I've just been only able to find solid reports of around two dozen, but heard some rumors about 20 have been added over the past 24 months or so. Any sources on this would be much appreciated, this kind of info is sort of hard to find.

SM isnt the most advanced aircrfat out there for sure, but we gotta keep in mind Su-39 was tested in Chechnya, and did not recieve the greatest of accolades. degradation in performance was not loved by pilots, and all the automatic attack systems functioned well below desired paramiters. Su-25SM may be very conservative, but at least it works.

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-16-2009, 04:36 PM
http://img.rian.ru/images/12058/26/120582644.jpg

More
http://de.rian.ru/photolents/20090316/120585228_8.html

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-16-2009, 05:08 PM
Why do you say they are not very happy? The factory is doing deep modernisation of their production line, I dont think they are radically changing the plane itself.

If they order Su-34 and immediately are starting an modernization of it,then something is wrong.The same goes for the Mi-28N


And rightfully so, sensor suit on Mi-28 is still not decided on/finalized. Apparently production Mi-28s will not have mast mounted radar, as of yet.

It seems they are waiting for it,atleast that's what i am hoping...


presumably PAK FA ( at least what photos says) from visualrian.ru

http://visualrian.ru/storage/PreviewWM/1496/04/149604.jpg

http://visualrian.ru/storage/PreviewWM/1264/04/126404.jpg

although, it could be photos of SU - 35 production line.. :|

More Su-35


In my view, there is really no point in getting the Mig-35 for Russia. Russia should just concentrate on the 5th gen aircrafts and provide more funding to R&D in terms of airforce. Mig-35 isn't a bad aircraft, but now that 5th gen is making more appearances, no point in going with the older gen aircrafts. Just my $0.02

Fully agree


Because what, India's military spending is at that of Russia's, and they have tons of newer equipment and more of them, then Russia.


Their budget is on par with India, yet India is capable of replacing tons of their old equipment. I don't see how Russia cannot.

maintenance for tons of nuclear weapons and other things is very expansive ;)...


No. They are building their own PAK-FA

?? You mean the MCA? Or the PAK-FA build for the indians from russia?:)

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-16-2009, 05:50 PM
OT but still interesting,new (second) Superjet!



http://www.knaapo.ru/media/rus/gallery/aircrafts/civil/2nd_ssj100/white_ssj_01_big.jpg

http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/gallery/events/civil/ssj100/2nd_ssj-100.wbp

K-5
03-16-2009, 06:24 PM
Really? Great news if true, I've just been only able to find solid reports of around two dozen, but heard some rumors about 20 have been added over the past 24 months or so. Any sources on this would be much appreciated, this kind of info is sort of hard to find.

SM isnt the most advanced aircrfat out there for sure, but we gotta keep in mind Su-39 was tested in Chechnya, and did not recieve the greatest of accolades. degradation in performance was not loved by pilots, and all the automatic attack systems functioned well below desired paramiters. Su-25SM may be very conservative, but at least it works.
Su-25SM is not bad platform just because it's simple compared to Fullback, it's ability to deliver bombs via CCIP and to use extended guided munitions (GPS assisted bombs) as opposed to standard T-8 is what modern Shturmovik needs. I just whish they would stop using C-8 rockets only. Several discussion boards in Russia mention that there were tangible deliveries of Su-24M2s to VVS in in fall-winter of 2008.
The reports of Su-25T/39 used in North Caucasus are very dubious to be honest. There was no official reviews published, like those involving Ka-50 deployment, also Su-39 exists only in two at most flight worthy planes, Su-25T had not been build in tangible numbers since Tbilisi factory went out of Moscow's control, which is good Georgian Frogfoots sucked big time assemblywise, and facility in Ulan wasn't financed after 1991. There were only 4 or 5 Su-25Ts based in Lipitsk, but some if not most of them were sold to Ethiopia some time ago.
Though I would like to be proven wrong about he Su-39 usagep-)

OT but still interesting,new (second) Superjet
So Sukhoi is about to take edge in regional jet competition. Nice

-Fighter-
03-16-2009, 06:26 PM
What we really need is precision weaponry in enough amounts to be used en mass. All the plane upgades are great but their performance is only marginally better with the same old unguided rockets and the same old bombs.



Their budget is on par with India, yet India is capable of replacing tons of their old equipment. I don't see how Russia cannot.

That would be true if India had to maintain and upgrade a superpower sized nuclear force.

TR1
03-16-2009, 06:38 PM
Interesting, I thought no more Ka-50s will be produced and that the Ka-52 will be produced, instead?
Meant Ka-52, sorry.

zg18
03-16-2009, 06:39 PM
OT but still interesting,new (second) Superjet!



http://www.knaapo.ru/media/rus/gallery/aircrafts/civil/2nd_ssj100/white_ssj_01_big.jpg

http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/gallery/events/civil/ssj100/2nd_ssj-100.wbp

Good looking plane!!!

TR1
03-16-2009, 06:41 PM
Su-25SM is not bad platform just because it's simple compared to Fullback, it's ability to deliver bombs via CCIP and to use extended guided munitions (GPS assisted bombs) as opposed to standard T-8 is what modern Shturmovik needs. I just whish they would stop using C-8 rockets only. Several discussion boards in Russia mention that there were tangible deliveries of Su-24M2s to VVS in in fall-winter of 2008.
The reports of Su-25T/39 used in North Caucasus are very dubious to be honest. There was no official reviews published, like those involving Ka-50 deployment, also Su-39 exists only in two at most flight worthy planes, Su-25T had not been build in tangible numbers since Tbilisi factory went out of Moscow's control, which is good Georgian Frogfoots sucked big time assemblywise, and facility in Ulan wasn't financed after 1991. There were only 4 or 5 Su-25Ts based in Lipitsk, but some if not most of them were sold to Ethiopia some time ago.
Though I would like to be proven wrong about he Su-39 usagep-)

So Sukhoi is about to take edge in regional jet competition. Nice
Oh, I thought it was pretty widely accepted that a pair (huge number, I know) of Su-25Ts were tested by 16th air army. I could be wrong though.

planeman
03-16-2009, 10:38 PM
presumably PAK FA ( at least what photos says) from visualrian.ru

http://visualrian.ru/storage/PreviewWM/1496/04/149604.jpg

http://visualrian.ru/storage/PreviewWM/1264/04/126404.jpg

although, it could be photos of SU - 35 production line.. :|The vertical stabalisers give it away as not PAK-FA unless they've thrown stealth out of the window. Su-35 is my bet too.

Revive
03-16-2009, 10:52 PM
the curve looks more like a Su-35, but there is no such thing as vertical tail= no stealth

void
03-16-2009, 11:02 PM
Hmmm, if a vertical tail is bad for stealth, then you cannot have a stealthy single tail aircraft? Just a thought.

planeman
03-16-2009, 11:11 PM
in a sense that's correct. The right-angle between the tails and the fuselage/flying surfaces, plus the barn-door side profile, increase RCS. There was a German single tail stealth design but that is the exception not the rule - notice how 99.99% of stealth aircraft either have very canted tails, or no tails at all. You could hypothesize that you could rely entirely on RAM and/or radar-transparent materials but it'd be cheaper and more credible to simply have canted tail surfaces like F-22, F-35, X-32, F-117, Little Duke, Barracuda et al.

somrandom
03-16-2009, 11:23 PM
That's definitely an Su-35 being assembled in the pics ;)

somrandom
03-16-2009, 11:25 PM
Su-25SM doesn't have radar nor is capable of carrying it in a pod like Su-39 does. It's similar essentially to A-10C upgrade but it's nowhere near Su-39 standards. Su-24M2 have their capability greatly extended, but lack of latest smart weapons in average units circumvents these abilities. IMO, there are much more than 24 operational M2s(close to 50?).

Link / source / evidence.

K-5
03-17-2009, 01:01 AM
Link / source / evidence.
Absolutely,
Standard arrangement of Klen emmiter and RWR sensors as on ordinary Su-25:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/3/5/8/1498853.jpg

No hardpoint running along centerline and engine firewall unlike that found on Su-25T/TM used for Spear radar, Mercury LLTV or Phantasmagoria pods:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/6/3/4/1334436.jpg

Standardized unerwing pylons used for weponary (the outer ones removed):
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/2/7/1429720.jpg

Su-25 airframes being rebuilt into SM standard. No radar housing either:
(Source:http://www.missiles.ru/foto_Su-25SM_Kubinka.htm)
http://www.missiles.ru/_foto/Su-25SM_Kubinka/IMG_1943_CS2.jpg

Standard Su-25SM cockpit:
http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs/65178_304689659_Su-25SMcockpit-1.jpg




How cool is that!!!:http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=406240 (http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=406240&postcount=7)postcount=7 (http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=406240&postcount=7)

TR1
03-17-2009, 01:38 AM
Link / source / evidence.
K-5 is absolutely right, the original upgrade envisaged a radar in the nose, a lot more stuff too, but as all things this was cut back. And thats ok IMO, that stuff was really not that neccesary.

What is worrying me is I keep hearing by 2015 or a bit later they are planning to axe all Su-25s. What's goign to replace it? The 58 Su-34s:cantbeli: ???

somrandom
03-17-2009, 01:51 AM
Interesting explanations.

What was the avionics upgrade then?

According to you, they really got nothing. :cantbeli:

K-5
03-17-2009, 02:00 AM
Interesting explanations.

What was the avionics upgrade then?

According to you, they really got nothing. :cantbeli:
I never said that. In fact, it was quite the opposite as I previously stated This doesn't make Su-25SM a bad aircraft... it's what modern sturmovik needs.
Right off from the memory: new HUD with built-in guncam. tactical situation MFD, modern navigation and communication suit, decent RWR built on Sukhogruz system. Vastly improved, in comparison to what is installed in Su-25A, ballistic computer.

TR1
03-17-2009, 02:07 AM
In Afghanistan Su-25 pilots had to rely on maps on their knees, and very much eyeballed navigation and targeting runs. SM really improves on that.
btw, original SU-25 could already use precision weaponry, such as Kh-25.

somrandom
03-17-2009, 02:19 AM
I never said that. In fact, it was quite the opposite as I previously stated This doesn't make Su-25SM a bad aircraft... it's what modern sturmovik needs.
Right off from the memory: new HUD with built-in guncam. tactical situation MFD, modern navigation and communication suit, decent RWR built on Sukhogruz system. Vastly improved, in comparison to what is installed in Su-25A, ballistic computer.

That's a rubbish upgrade though no?

No TV guided weapons means no FOF weapons.

The laser guided weapons are lock till impact AFAIK?

GazB
03-17-2009, 02:33 AM
In my view, there is really no point in getting the Mig-35 for Russia. Russia should just concentrate on the 5th gen aircrafts and provide more funding to R&D in terms of airforce. Mig-35 isn't a bad aircraft, but now that 5th gen is making more appearances, no point in going with the older gen aircrafts. Just my $0.02

The 360 degree EO targetting system is even more sophisticated than anything fitted to the F-22. There is no point in concentrating on a 5th gen aircraft when most of Russias clients can't afford even a token force of 5th gen aircraft, and Russia itself really doesn't require a large number of 5th gen fighters. At the end of the day they have a lot of territory to cover so lots of smaller cheaper aircraft make sense. In densely populated areas in Europe where there are lots of air*****s a small shorter range fighter in large numbers makes more sense than a few longer range aircraft. Coverage is a numbers game and it makes sense to have a better coverage supported by SAMs and ground forces than a small number of expensive planes.


Really? Did not know that the price of the PAK FA was already out.

A stealth plane retains stealth only with precision design precision manufacture and care and attention in service. They will not be cheap to maintain... a screw or fastener 1mm above the skin can ruin millions of dollars of design and manufacturer effort to make it stealthy.
In any case there is no need for 5th gen stealth fighters to operate on the border with Georgia, or Finland etc. If they were to be deployed there that would just motivate those countries to upgrade and become a greater threat... if they choose to spend their money that way.


Edit: and anyway, if they need an aircraft that will fill the time being, upgrading the SU-27's would be far cheaper, and better then just purchasing a newer aircraft that will have similar capabilities.

The PAK-FA is being build in prototype form now. The August date is for the flight of the first prototype. The PAK-FA will not enter Russian AF service till at least 2018, and it will not be in service in numbers till at least 2022. Until then the Russian AF needs to upgrade and also buy new aircraft. The Mig-31BM, Su-27SM, Su-27BM, Su-25SM, Su-24M2, and Mig-35 will be their standard upgrade choices (though I would prefer to see the Su-25SM upgrade dropped and replaced with a newer version of the Su-25TM upgrade, perhaps with a Damocles pod replacing the Shkval-M system).
The upgraded Mig-29 is 40% cheaper to operate than its older version. I would expect standard Su-27s are getting expensive to operate too. They both need upgrades or even new airframes.


Right now, they are building the PAK FA for Indian specifications. So something else may be released. Maybe not technically better, but maybe cheaper. Who knows.

The basic airframe will be designed for stealth and high speed flight. The different versions will not differ too much externally IMHO. Unless they want a two seat version of course. It will be the internal stuff that sets the Russian and Indian model apart. The Indian model will have a lot of foreign parts and Indian parts, whereas the Russian aircraft will probably be mostly Russian. A bit like the Su-30MKI and the Su-27BM.
The Indian model will probably take longer and I don't think it will be much cheaper. It will certainly suit India better but integration will take longer and the parts selected will likely cost more.


Other then that, purchasing newer aircrafts but that are still of the same generation as the upgrades (4++ and such) would be a waste of money.

Existing aircraft can be given upgrades or given away as gifts to various friendly nations. You have to remember that the aircrew and maintainence staff will have enough problems going from 4th gen to 5th gen as it is. The sooner they can get newer upgraded aircraft into service the better. Especially if those upgraded aircraft include systems based on 5th gen fighters. It means the production base is increased and problems can be found and sorted out quicker. It also means pilots and ground crew can learn to operate the new stuff and develop tactics over time.


Thats why we need MIGs-35, SUs-34 and 35 that will form a base of our strike force, with air supperiority fighter like PAK-FA.

That is a good point. Modern fighters have excellent air to ground capability. In fact the Su-27BM and Mig-35 have better air to ground performance than any previous Russian bomber aircraft regarding payload options and targetting accuracy. There is no need to risk a PAK-FA in the mud moving role when the Sus and Migs can do as good a job or better and are available in numbers to do the job. Production of 4++ aircraft will also be good for MIG (OAK) and Sukhoi and should provide funds to help develop new systems and aircraft of all types.


Is the SU-25 going through the TM upgrade? or is it the SU-39 based upgrade?

Su-25SM


And the talk of the Mig-31 upgrade was for a long time already, and have not seen anything of it.

Two Mig-31BMs are in a testing facility developing tactics and operations manuals. More funding should speed up the process.


I don't think that upgrade the current fleet only is a correct approach it depends by the status of the planes from what i see in the news I don't think that upgrade the MIG29 is a good idea!

The Indian tests with the US showed that small fighters can be hard to deal with. It is rare that a Flanker in Russian service will fly with all its internal fuel tanks full. Most operational flights don't require such a large heavy aircraft.


Also yes, the Tu-22M3, Tu-95MS and Tu-160 are all getting equipment for precision bombing (or more precise dumb-bomb) use.

Also, the 95MS/160 are getting Kh-555/101/102 capability.

The Tu-22M3 - not sure, the Kh-32 (upgraded Kh-22M) has been lurking around, though unupgraded models may be able to use the new missile already.

The upgrade for these three air is unified. They will get upgraded radars of a similar type with similar modes, though presumably different radar antenna sizes. The weapons are to be unified too, with satellite guided bombs and missiles added as well as other types of precision guided air to ground weapons.

The Tu-160 will also have its max weapon load capacity increased from 40 tons to 45 tons. (45,000kg)


Only weapons out of those I see usefull in upgrading are the SU-24 (and not fully useful imo, because the SU-34 is out) and the TU-22M3 (and that will probably be replaced once something else is released). I dunno, but I still feel that replacing these old icons of the SU is the best way to go.

The Su-24 is needed because there are less than half a dozen Su-34s in service and they are entering service slowly. The Mig-31BM is needed because it is a far better interceptor than any other interceptor ever made. No other aircraft entered service that could accelerate to mach 2.3 from takeoff and remain at that speed till landing and intercept targets 720km from its base and carry the heaviest AAMs in service.


Hmm... Kind of disappointing in terms of the numbers. Those are small number of aircrafts being upgraded.

The reality is that there is no threat that warrants a complete upgrade. Any confrontation with NATO will be WWIII so SS-18s will do more talking than any 5th gen fighter. Against the rest of its neighbours its old cold war unupgraded Mig-29s and Su-27s and Mig-31s are actually overkill.


Su-24M2 have their capability greatly extended, but lack of latest smart weapons in average units circumvents these abilities. IMO, there are much more than 24 operational M2s(close to 50?).

That is another good point. Spending big money on all the new flash upgrades means nothing if you don't also spend money on all the new smart weapons that come with them. The weapons often work out more expensive than the aircraft when you look at the numbers required.


If they order Su-34 and immediately are starting an modernization of it,then something is wrong.The same goes for the Mi-28N

The problem is that both programs are from ideas born in the 1980s and starved of funds. They both really only got secure funding in 2005 or so, so the final designs were always in a sort of limbo. With no finalised design as new technology came along it was incorporated where it was possible. This is not a good way to design a system.


It seems they are waiting for it,atleast that's what i am hoping...

Have read that the radars are not coming along as quickly as hoped.


Interesting, I thought no more Ka-50s will be produced and that the Ka-52 will be produced, instead?

They produced about a dozen in the 1990s for the Russian Army, but changed their mind and decided night and all weather capability were important so held another competition which the Mi-28N won. They recently decided to build some more Ka-50s just to make a viable force. They were also making half a dozen Ka-52s for the armoured scout role to replace the Mi-2. The Mi-28N will be the replacement for the Mi-24.


Su-25SM is not bad platform just because it's simple compared to Fullback, it's ability to deliver bombs via CCIP and to use extended guided munitions (GPS assisted bombs) as opposed to standard T-8 is what modern Shturmovik needs. I just whish they would stop using C-8 rockets only.

With Ugroza the C-8 might be useful. The description of its guidance reads to be very similar to the Sokol-1 missile fired from 125mm main gun. Ie can detect targets marked with a laser, and can engage moving or distinct targets on its own. This suggests to me some sort of optical guidance with ability to see moving targets and reflected laser energy.


http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=406240&postcount=7

Perfect Wallpaper material... :)

K-5
03-17-2009, 02:33 AM
That's a rubbish upgrade though no?

No TV guided weapons means no FOF weapons.

The laser guided weapons are lock till impact AFAIK?
Yes, as far as Kh-25ML and Kh-29L are concerned,target must be kept illuminated by a beam until the impact. Though I think it's reasonable to speculate that Su-25SM can employ fire and forget TV guided weapons such as Kh-29T and KAB-500KR bombs, by use of weapon seeker fed image. Since it's has GPS/GLONASS navigation suit it could also acquire cpability to use KAB-500S guided bombs. Again note that I only assume so and note recide official statements.

TR1
03-17-2009, 02:46 AM
Just to nitpick Garry, there are 3 Su-34s in service as of today. Of course many more were made for the purpose of testing, etc, but for actual AF use, only 3 exist as of today. Another 5 are due soon from what I hear.

GazB
03-17-2009, 04:19 AM
Just to nitpick Garry, there are 3 Su-34s in service as of today. Of course many more were made for the purpose of testing, etc, but for actual AF use, only 3 exist as of today. Another 5 are due soon from what I hear.I actually said less than half a dozen... is 3 not less than 6? :)


The cheapest guided weapon the Su-25SM could carry that is able to be used in all weathers day or night would be the satellite guided bombs, which presumably will also be made in 250kg sizes in addition to the known larger 500kg models.
With a LCD screen in the cockpit and greatly upgraded avionics I don't see why the TV guided versions of the Kh-25 (in dev) and Kh-29 could not be deployed, along with the IIR versions of both missiles. Laser target marking can be done by buddy aircraft or ground controllers. The money being spent on UAVs should mean that in the future the target marker might be an unmanned aircraft that loiters over the target area showing enemy positions, marking targets and of course relaying pictures of the target area after the attack to allow planners to work out if a follow up attack needs to be organised. Reportedly the laser on the Mig-35 can be used to mark targets on the ground at up to 20km. This compares to the laser in the IRST of the original Mig-29 that could only range aerial targets out to 8km or so and wasn't greatly suited to ground targets.

Should point out the Su-25 is not a Russian A-10. The A-10 was pretty much optimised as a tank buster to operate with the Apache or deep behind enemy lines. The Su-25 is designed as a light short range strike aircraft used to hit point targets on the front line. The target might be a group of tanks, but could just as easily be an artillery regiment, or a base of some sort. Unguided rockets and dumb bombs are still useful against such targets, though computer assissted aiming would certainly make it more effective and reduce the number of sorties and the amount of ordinance needed to get the job done. The Su-25s best anti tank weapon would probably be the RBK-500U with SPBE munitions and PTAB munitions in a mixed load... the former against tanks and the latter against trucks and APCs and other light vehicles.

TR1
03-17-2009, 04:26 AM
Woops, saw a dozen, not half dozen.

-Max2-
03-17-2009, 07:16 AM
What we really need is precision weaponry in enough amounts to be used en mass. All the plane upgades are great but their performance is only marginally better with the same old unguided rockets and the same old bombs.

Indeed. Even the multirole Su-27SMs arent equipped with "smart" air-to-ground weapons and i suspect the "new" SMTs wont have any new weapons at their disposal either...

And when the hell will Russian AF procure R-77s ? I find it unbelievable that Russia still hasnt acquired this missile despite it is in production since 1996 and was exported...

Dark Avenger
03-17-2009, 09:05 AM
Actually the Su-27SM can deliver PGMs when fitted with the Sapsan designator pod.

-Max2-
03-17-2009, 09:30 AM
Actually the Su-27SM can deliver PGMs when fitted with the Sapsan designator pod.

I know they can. But no guided air-to ground weapons were delivered to the two Su-27SM regiments...

Shadow555
03-17-2009, 11:21 AM
New video of AN-94


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB52Khdtx74&feature=channel_page

Kutuzov
03-17-2009, 01:02 PM
http://zvezdanews.ru/video/0028161/

Zvezda Rearming of the army 2011.Russian only.

Kupr
03-17-2009, 02:06 PM
I found interesting private photo in livejournal.
http://shurigin.livejournal.com/

Afganistan:
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/a/l/alconost/afgan-Proh-SHishkin-zhzh.jpg

somrandom
03-17-2009, 02:24 PM
Should point out the Su-25 is not a Russian A-10. The A-10 was pretty much optimised as a tank buster to operate with the Apache or deep behind enemy lines. The Su-25 is designed as a light short range strike aircraft used to hit point targets on the front line. The target might be a group of tanks, but could just as easily be an artillery regiment, or a base of some sort. Unguided rockets and dumb bombs are still useful against such targets, though computer assissted aiming would certainly make it more effective and reduce the number of sorties and the amount of ordinance needed to get the job done. The Su-25s best anti tank weapon would probably be the RBK-500U with SPBE munitions and PTAB munitions in a mixed load... the former against tanks and the latter against trucks and APCs and other light vehicles.

Wonder how a Kh-25 or Kh-29 would do against an MBT. . .

They should have given the Su-34 the ability to use the AT-16. :)

somrandom
03-17-2009, 02:27 PM
Actually the Su-27SM can deliver PGMs when fitted with the Sapsan designator pod.

I'm pretty sure the Su-27SM can TV weapons without Sapsan?

Also - wonder if it can use GLONASS guided ones?

TR1
03-17-2009, 02:42 PM
I'm pretty sure the Su-27SM can TV weapons without Sapsan?

Also - wonder if it can use GLONASS guided ones?
I just looked at this:
http://www.amazon.com/Russias-Military-Aircraft-21st-Century/dp/1857802241

Gordon claims that Su-27SM can indeed use TV guided weapons, and I quote:
"The Su-27SM/Su-27SKM is able to use TV-guided missiles (whose seeker heads receive initial target information from the aircraft's radar) and deliver bomb attacks in instrument meteorological conditions and at night. Weapon's range includes Kh-29T/TE Tv-guided missiles and Kh-29L laser-guided missiles, Kh-31A active radar homing anti-ship missiles, Kh-31P anti-radiation missiles, KAB-500Kr and KAB-1500Kr "smart bombs", R-77 (RVV-AE) active radar homing AAMs and more."

K-5
03-17-2009, 03:11 PM
I just looked at this:
http://www.amazon.com/Russias-Military-Aircraft-21st-Century/dp/1857802241

Gordon claims that Su-27SM can indeed use TV guided weapons, and I quote:
"The Su-27SM/Su-27SKM is able to use TV-guided missiles (whose seeker heads receive initial target information from the aircraft's radar) and deliver bomb attacks in instrument meteorological conditions and at night. Weapon's range includes Kh-29T/TE Tv-guided missiles and Kh-29L laser-guided missiles, Kh-31A active radar homing anti-ship missiles, Kh-31P anti-radiation missiles, KAB-500Kr and KAB-1500Kr "smart bombs", R-77 (RVV-AE) active radar homing AAMs and more."
That's all nice and swell, but problem is that there are no or close to none of these ordnance items deployed in active units. Especially R-77. KAB-1500 on SM? which hardpoint exactly is capable of holding this thing (Oh, Efim...)? I think it ought to remain Fencers' duty to deliver these puppies anyway.

TR1
03-17-2009, 03:16 PM
KAB-1500 can be mounted on centerline pylon without a problem. Anyways I agree, better Su-24s and Su-34s get those weapons, as of now Su-27SM is not really planned to be used as multirole fighter in Russia. perhaps actual serial r-77 production for RuAF will start soon, they would be delusional to have so many SU-27SMs, Su-34s, 35s, MiG-29s that can use R-77 (by 2015 I mean there will be plenty of suck planes) but are only deployed with R-27.

TheArmenian
03-17-2009, 03:25 PM
R-77 may never enter RuAF service. It's replacement is under development. So are other new air-air missiles all destined to arm the PAK-FA as well as Su-35 and other planes.

Look at the Knaapo website for the Su-35 armament and you will get an idea.

So far the Russian defense ministry is keeping these programs classified, maybe they will show some (and maybe the PAK-FA itself) at MAKS-2009 this August.

Bolt
03-17-2009, 04:48 PM
More photos, guys. ;)

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6339/090311132215nanoloshad.jpg

sepheronx
03-17-2009, 07:42 PM
More photos, guys. ;)

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6339/090311132215nanoloshad.jpg

Wow, that new APC looks awesome. I want one!

K-5
03-17-2009, 10:20 PM
Wonder how a Kh-25 or Kh-29 would do against an MBT. . .

They should have given the Su-34 the ability to use the AT-16. :)
What for, Fullback is a tactical strike aircraft which needs not to deal with armored targets-that's a role of CAS aircraft, preferably Frogfoot. Vikhr is obsolete system because of Shkval system and guidance method it uses.
TNT equivalent of Kh-25ML missile is around 90kg, TNT equivalent of Kh-29 family is 320kg needless to say the result will be devastating.

emind
03-17-2009, 11:14 PM
Russian Army in Abkhazia, small photo report

http://segodnia.ru/index.php?pgid=4&gallery_id=29&imgnum=1

Thank you! Awesome photos. I left Abhazia in 1992 on one of these landing ships with the remnants of russian forces. Their base was stationed not far away from where I have lived. It is great to watch them go back!!

shardana
03-18-2009, 05:16 AM
in a sense that's correct. The right-angle between the tails and the fuselage/flying surfaces, plus the barn-door side profile, increase RCS. There was a German single tail stealth design but that is the exception not the rule - notice how 99.99% of stealth aircraft either have very canted tails, or no tails at all. You could hypothesize that you could rely entirely on RAM and/or radar-transparent materials but it'd be cheaper and more credible to simply have canted tail surfaces like F-22, F-35, X-32, F-117, Little Duke, Barracuda et al.
Another good reason to develope Pak Fa as soon as possible:
Boeing (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/boeing.html) today unveiled a new F-15 prototype aimed at the international market with such "fifth-generation" add-ons as radar absorbent coatings, internal weapons carriage and integrated digital avionics, plus featuring a distinctive V-tail.
Improving the fourth generation fighter’s profile on air-to-air radar is Boeing’s key goal for the F-15SE, which the company plans to offer to five foreign countries with an estimated market for 190 orders.
Radar absorbent materials added to leading edges are designed to soften the F-15SE’s head-on radar signature. Canting both horizontal stabilizers by 15 degrees is intended to reduce radar returns to the side.



© Boeing


Finally, embedding missiles and bombs inside conformal fuel tanks also reduces radar signature in all directions, and allows the F-15SE to perform its warfighting mission even with “clean” wings.
Boeing claims the end-result is an aircraft that can match the frontal-aspect stealth profile of any fifth generation fighter in configurations cleared by the US government for export release.
“We know we can get to the US government release level for international customers,” said Brad Jones, Boeing’s manager for future F-15 programmes.
To be fair, Boeing acknowledges the F-15SE’s stealth improvements do not help against ground-based radar systems, which are critical for waging offensive strikes against opponents armed with surface to air missile systems. Lowering the F-15SE’s thermal signature -- a critical stealthy feature for the Lockheed Martin F-22 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid3138436001/bclid1527680596/bctid1659879794) – is also not part of Boeing plans.
But Boeing said the F-15SE is aimed at international customers more likely to use the aircraft for defensive, counter-air missions, rather than offensive strikes in defended airspace where all-aspect stealth is necessary for survival.
Despite the stealth improvements, Boeing insists the F-15SE would not tradeoff sensor or aerodynamic performance. The APG-63(V)3 radar would remain canted slightly forward rather than tilted back, preserving coverage and range at the expense of head-on radar cross section.
Moreover, Boeing has designed the F-15SE to also function as a non-stealthy, multi-role aircraft with the F-15E’s full payload of 29,000lbs of weapons. The conformal fuel tanks with the internal weapons bay can be quickly removed after landing, allowing the aircraft to takeoff with a full payload within two hours.
Another key feature of the F-15SE is the electronic warfare system. Boeing has selected the BAE Systems digital electronic warfare system (DEWS), which includes a digital radar warning receiver, digital jamming transmitter, integrated countermeasures dispenser and an interference cancellation system. The aircraft could continue to jam enemy radars even as its own radar and RWR continues to operate, Boeing claims.
Boeing launched the F-15SE, initially dubbed Project Monty, in September. The company-owned F-15E testbed was quickly modified with the V-tail and conformal fuel tanks to provide a ground-based demonstrator.
Flight trials for a risk reduction programme are scheduled to begin in the first quarter of 2010. The first aircraft could be available for delivery to foreign customers three years after a deal is signed. Boeing plans to offer the F-15SE to Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Israel and Saudi Arabia, with all being current F-15 customers.
Notionally, Boeing estimates the F-15SE’s cost, including airframe, spares and training, at $100 million each.
The F-15’s single-largest customer – the US Air Force – is not officially a sales target for the F-15SE. However, Boeing says that all of the stealth, avionics and structural upgrades can be retrofitted on any existing F-15E. Company officials have briefed three agencies within the US Air Force, including Air Combat Command, but only as a “courtesy”, a Boeing spokeswoman said

Flankerman
03-18-2009, 05:54 AM
The BBC ran a documentary last night about Russia's upgrades for its armed forces - with pictures from the 4th TsBPiPLS at Lipetsk.

You can see the documentary here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00jc39w/Newsnight_17_03_2009/).

I noticed that the Su-27SM at Lipetsk is now sporting a 'hockey stick' aerial under the nose...

http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/moscow_2005_files/Su-27SM%20Hockeystick.jpg

This is the same system that is fitted to the brand new Su-35 (http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/popup.wbp?picpath=/media/rus/gallery/aircrafts/combat/2nd_su-35_flight/2nd_su-35_flight_08_big.jpg)...

I assume that the Su-27SM's have had a further upgrade with this new system.

Anyone know what it is - IFF ???

Ken

emind
03-18-2009, 09:41 AM
http://img13.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/2/e/d/4/5/2ed452473b19295dafce382baebd3b2b_full.jpg

pak fa?

jaybe
03-18-2009, 09:43 AM
http://img13.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/2/e/d/4/5/2ed452473b19295dafce382baebd3b2b_full.jpg

pak fa?

computer fiction :)

sepheronx
03-18-2009, 09:45 AM
http://img13.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/2/e/d/4/5/2ed452473b19295dafce382baebd3b2b_full.jpg

pak fa?

Most likely a photoshop.

Snoshi
03-18-2009, 09:49 AM
Its it supposed to represent the Chinese stealth fighter, not Russian.

emind
03-18-2009, 09:54 AM
Its it supposed to represent the Chinese stealth fighter, not Russian.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2590/19bh1.jpg
yea you're right. its J-XX. nice bird.

somrandom
03-18-2009, 11:26 AM
What for, Fullback is a tactical strike aircraft which needs not to deal with armored targets-that's a role of CAS aircraft, preferably Frogfoot. Vikhr is obsolete system because of Shkval system and guidance method it uses.
TNT equivalent of Kh-25ML missile is around 90kg, TNT equivalent of Kh-29 family is 320kg needless to say the result will be devastating.

What's the Frogfoot gonna do to a tank? Spray it with unguided rockets?

sepheronx
03-18-2009, 11:52 AM
What's the Frogfoot gonna do to a tank? Spray it with unguided rockets?

It is a support vehicle aircraft, it can carry not just unguided bombs, but with some simple upgrades, it can carry ATGM's like Vikhr and such.

Revive
03-18-2009, 02:12 PM
after i saw the tail shape it looks like some sort of mkk version to the Venezuela

TheArmenian
03-18-2009, 02:15 PM
What's the Frogfoot gonna do to a tank? Spray it with unguided rockets?

What's the A-10 gonna do to a tank? Spray it with 30mm ammo?

Note that these aircraft (Su-25 and A-10) are not aiming at the frontal armour of a tank where armour is at its thickest. They are shooting at the relatively lightly armoured top of the vehicles.

So yes, unguided rockets and 30mm ammo can kill tanks.

TR1
03-18-2009, 02:29 PM
Some of the rockets the SU-25 carries can make short work of even heavy armor too.

KoTeMoRe
03-18-2009, 02:45 PM
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2590/19bh1.jpg
yea you're right. its J-XX. nice bird.


Yes it is the J-XeroX PS. Nice stealthy plane...so stealthy that even the chinese engineers can't see it! Pure magic!

kontempladorII
03-18-2009, 02:53 PM
Most likely a photoshop.

Those two pictures of the "J-XX" are very rare. Look at it a higher resolution

http://www.paralay.com/j12/0001.jpg
http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/3093/10204871412122904ht.jpg

In both cases the "fighter" look exactly the same. All elements on the fighter and equipment around it are in exactly the same position. It just appear like it is the same photo taken from different angles but both photos depict different situations.

The people standing on front of the plane in the first photo look way too artificial. On the other hand elements on the second pictures look very real, specially the refraction of the background in the canopy.

It may be a photoshop but in that case is a very good work.

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-18-2009, 04:38 PM
http://visualrian.com/storage/PreviewWM/3808/84/380884.jpg?1237390891



March 18, 2009. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, left,visiting the Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center. From right to left: the center's Director-General Vladimir Nesterov and Roskosmos Head Anatoly Perminov.

More
http://visualrian.com/lists/item/32459


http://visualrian.com/storage/PreviewWM/3808/36/380836.jpg?1237386509


The workshops of the Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center.

More
http://visualrian.com/lists/item/32452






http://img13.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/2/e/d/4/5/2ed452473b19295dafce382baebd3b2b_full.jpg

pak fa?

Chinese fantasy stealth fighter

KMario
03-18-2009, 04:45 PM
This photo is NOT new Su-35!

It has a dorsal airbrake (Su-35 does not have this)

It has square-tipped fins (Su-35 does not).

It has chaff/flare 'boxes' along the tailboom (Su-35 does not).

It looks like it might be an 'old' Su-35 (Bort 701 to 712) ???

But why ???

Ken

Ken It might be Su-35UB bn 801, but I dont see canards?
Su-35UB haven't got large titanium plate around GŠ-30 gun, but on picture looks like huge plate.
Or it is Su-30MKK or MK-2 for Venezuela?
Apsolutly it is not Su-27M p-)

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-18-2009, 04:48 PM
Ken It might be Su-35UB bn 801, but I dont see canards?
Su-35UB haven't got large titanium plate around GŠ-30 gun, but on picture looks like huge plate.
Or it is Su-30MKK or MK-2 for Venezuela?
Apsolutly it is not Su-27M p-)

Its a Flanker for sure...PAK-FA is still top-secret.

karateka
03-18-2009, 04:50 PM
hi all,

I work with photoshop daily and my thoughts on the "J-XX" are as follows.

http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/3093/10204871412122904ht.jpg
this picture is taken on a model in a well built environment.
hints:
the canopy glass thickness, very hard to do even on a nice modell
the floor shine
the overall clean environment (i know airplanes are built clean but not like this)
the lack of smaller details than a certain level

http://www.paralay.com/j12/0001.jpg
this on the other hand is the same model from different angel
but parts of the model environment has been duplicated to create
space to photoshop a sukhoi? into the room.

its not a good photoshop eighter.
you can se the travers in the roof is duplicated and
the wall and roof is just "moved away" from the modell plane.
they darkened the corner where the angels meet up and if you
follow the irons in the roof they wont end where they are supposed to.
a number of other things dont match up eighter.

my 50 cents......

lovely thread by the way and so many nice pictures of
my favorite war machine ever, cccp, bless its soul

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-18-2009, 05:54 PM
Putin visits Chrunitshev space center

http://zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/science/0028213/

http://zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/0028226/

Airforce shadowing US aircraft carrier

http://zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/0028226/

Gast
03-18-2009, 06:06 PM
Force of beauty and beauty of force ;)


Looks like a stealth tank.

Nuclear_Warrior
03-18-2009, 06:07 PM
Imagine that kind of armor in your face, f***ing unbelievable!

K-5
03-18-2009, 06:22 PM
Force of beauty and beauty of force ;)
highdefenced transport vehicle "Ladoga" sry for bad english (Высокозащищеное транспортное средство "ЛАДОГА")
I don't know what I like more the fact that reasonable resolution pics of Ladoga exist or that girl, I go with the girl.
The Ladoga transport looks different from original design. Chernobyl Experience?
http://t80leningrad.narod.ru/video_1/z_VZTS_Ladoga_1.MPG
http://t80leningrad.narod.ru/video_1/z_VZTS_Ladoga_2.MPG

Zmey
03-18-2009, 06:28 PM
This photo is NOT new Su-35!

It has a dorsal airbrake (Su-35 does not have this)

It has square-tipped fins (Su-35 does not).

It has chaff/flare 'boxes' along the tailboom (Su-35 does not).

It looks like it might be an 'old' Su-35 (Bort 701 to 712) ???

But why ???

Ken

On the photo from the front I didnt notice any "shoulder" for the canard. And the large-panel, clean construction doesnt strike me as old T-10M. Could this be new-built 27SM? Or perhaps, based on the testing of 901 and 902, they decided to go back to separate dorsal airbrake?

DiversanT
03-18-2009, 07:22 PM
guys, look at the date of that KNAAPO photo.It was taken on 06.04.2007. Cant be 35BM because of air brake at least.

Or perhaps, based on the testing of 901 and 902, they decided to go back to separate dorsal airbrake?
cant be also because of date.
Cant be SM modernization because of new airframes.
So, the answer is Su-30MK2 for Venezuela or Su-30MKM for Malaysia, but MKM has canards and its not 100 % clear at these photos. I think it doesnt have them. My bet is SU-30MK2

Flankerman
03-18-2009, 07:24 PM
This photo.....

http://visualrian.ru/images/item/149604http://visualrian.ru/storage/PreviewWM/1496/04/149604.jpg?1175845140

...is probably 'new' Su-35 - note the raked fin tips, the RWR 'dimple' on the l/e slat and the 'closed' airbrake area.

This photo......

http://visualrian.ru/images/item/149603http://visualrian.ru/images/item/149603http://visualrian.ru/storage/PreviewWM/1496/03/149603.jpg?1175845020

...is a different machine - note the fin tips and airbrake.

I would guess that it is Su-30MK2 - maybe this machine....

http://www.knaapo.ru/media/rus/gallery/aircrafts/combat/su-30mk2/su-30mk2_05_big.jpg

Either way, the two photos are of two different airframes.

Ken

Flankerman
03-18-2009, 07:43 PM
A search of KnAAPO's archives shows that the photos were taken during a visit to Komsomolsk-na-Amur by Sergei Ivanov on 06.04.2007......

http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/news/archive/index.wbp?article-id=D97374CF-34C2-4B9E-9B8C-B18B2FE0F295&from-date=01/04/2007&to-date=30/04/2007

Ken

Revive
03-18-2009, 11:51 PM
oh, i got it, its an indonesian mk2!

Vympel
03-19-2009, 11:22 AM
x3 could we somehow get her number?

shardana
03-19-2009, 04:17 PM
x3 could we somehow get her number?

Do you trust this article:
I really believe that F35 could have problem vs SU35 I don't know nothing about PAK FA
ПАК ФА угрожает монополии США на технологию "Стелз"

06.03.2009
Зарубежные военные эксперты озабочены прогрессом, который демонстрирует в последнее время Россия в создании перспективного авиакомплекса пятого поколения (ПАК ФА), разработку которого ведет компания «Сухой». Германский военный портал «Defence professional» опубликовал статью «Что будет, когда закончится американская монополия на «Стелс»? В ней говорится, что российский истребитель способен создать конкуренцию в воздухе и на мировом рынке американским самолетам F-22 и F-35. При этом отмечается, что заявленные технические характеристики ПАК ФА соответствуют самому совершенному на сегодняшний день F-22, задачей которого является обеспечение американского превосходства в воздухе.
Автор статьи вынужден признать, что Россия способна создать «истребитель-невидимку». Российские предприятия могут изготавливать профили самолета, обеспечивающие малозаметность. При этом использование специальных покрытий и материалов, поглощающих и не отражающих сигналы локаторов, делает самолет практически незаметным для радаров противника. Современные российские технологии изготовления двигателей не уступают западным. При этом используется аналогичная американской технология создания плоского сопла двигателя для ПАК ФА в целях достижения его малозаметности. Также отмечается, что на новейшем истребителе Су-35 уже используются цифровая система управления полетом и сетецентрические технологии ведения и управления боем. В последнем поколении российских радаров с активной фазированной решеткой применяются цифровые технологии и алгоритмы быстродействующей обработки данных, аналогичные технологиям американских радаров, появившихся в текущем десятилетии.
В материале особо отмечается, что малозаметность ПАК ФА сделает неэффективными или осложнит использование американских ракет «воздух-воздух» большой дальности. Вследствие этого воздушный бой будет происходить на средних и малых дистанциях в пределах прямой видимости. А это уравняет шансы F-22 и ПАК ФА. Другие же американские самолеты не смогут адекватно противостоять российскому истребителю. По оценке экспертов, F-35 уже испытывает сложности в противодействии Су-35 с его низкой эффективной площадью отражения сигналов радаров, равной площади теннисного мяча. При достижении же ПАК ФА более низких показателей по площади отражения сигналов радаров новый американский истребитель F-35, по мнению автора статьи, попадает в ту же «черную дыру борьбы за выживание», что и F-16C/E, F-15C/E и F/A-18A-F.
Первые опытные образцы ПАК ФА изготавливаются на Комсомольском-на-Амуре авиационном производственном объединении имени Ю.А.Гагарина (ОАО "КнААПО"). Как сообщил генеральный директор холдинга «Сухой» Михаил Погосян на прошедшей в феврале выставке «Aero India 2009», первые полеты нового самолета начнутся в течение года.

Snoshi
03-19-2009, 04:23 PM
^^ Who the hell wrote that article? rofl

zanuda
03-19-2009, 05:29 PM
^^ Who the hell wrote that article? rofl

bot from www.translate.ru :

PAK FA* threatens monopoly of the USA for technology "Stealth"
06.03.2009 Foreign military experts are anxious by progress which is shown recently by Russia in creation of a perspective aviacomplex of the fifth generation (PAK FA) which working out is conducted by company "Suhoi". The German military portal «Defence professional» has published article «That will be, when the American monopoly for"Stealth"will end? In it it is said that the Russian fighter is capable to create a competition in air and in the world market to the American planes F-22 and F-35. It is thus noticed that the declared technical characteristics of PAK FA correspond to the most perfect for today F-22 which problem is maintenance of the American air superiority. The author of article is compelled to recognise that Russia is capable to create"fighter-invisible being". The Russian enterprises can make the profiles of the plane providing малозаметность. Thus use of special coverings and the materials which are absorbing and not reflecting signals of locators, does the plane almost imperceptible for a radar of the opponent. Modern Russian manufacturing techniques of engines do not concede to the western. The technology of creation of a flat nozzle of the engine for PAK FA with a view of its achievement малозаметности is thus used similar American. Also it is noticed that on the newest fighter Su-35 are already used a digital control system of flight and сетецентрические technologies of conducting and a control of operations. In last generation of the Russian radar with the active phased lattice digital technologies and the algorithms of high-speed data processing similar to technologies of the American radar, appeared in current decade are applied. In a material it is especially noticed that малозаметность PAK FA will make inefficient or will complicate use of the American rockets "air-air" of the big range. Thereof air fight will occur on average and small distances within direct visibility. And it will balance chances F-22 and PAK FA. Other American planes cannot adequately resist to the Russian fighter. According to experts, F-35 already experiences complexities in counteraction of Su-35 with its low effective area of reflexion of signals of the radar, the equal area of a tennis ball. At achievement of PAK ФА of lower indicators on the area of reflexion of signals of a radar new American fighter F-35, according to the author of article, gets to the same «a black hole of struggle for a survival», as F-16C/E, F-15C/E and F/A-18A-F. The first pre-production models of PAK ФА are made on the Komsomol-on-cupid aviation production association of a name J.A.Gagarina (Open Society "КнААПО"). As the general director of holding "Suhoi" Michael Pogosjan at the exhibition which has passed in February «Aero India 2009» has informed, the first flights of the new plane will begin within a year.

* PAK FA
abbreviation - Perspective aviation complex of battlefield aircraft


____________


PAK FA
reasoning, compilations, prototype, 3d models, hardware

http://paralay.com/pakfasu.html
http://www.paralay.com/pakfamig.html

K-5
03-19-2009, 05:40 PM
bot from www.translate.ru (http://www.translate.ru) :

. At achievement of PAK ФА of lower indicators on the area of reflexion of signals of a radar new American fighter F-35, according to the author of article, gets to the same «a black hole of struggle for a survival», as F-16C/E, F-15C/E and F/A-18A-F.
* PAK FA
abbreviation - Perspective aviation complex of battlefield aircraft
http://paralay.com/pakfasu.html
http://www.paralay.com/pakfamig.html
Great assumption:bash: Tells you they write articles about things they have no idea of.

zanuda
03-19-2009, 05:45 PM
Great assumption:bash: Tells you they write articles about things they have no idea of.

as usual typical journalist bull#hit

trondjac
03-19-2009, 06:07 PM
http://img13.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/2/e/d/4/5/2ed452473b19295dafce382baebd3b2b_full.jpg

pak fa?

hehe, depending on the size of the persons vs the aircraft, I guess that it takes about four Chinese pilots to fill the cockpitp-)

alexgodinez
03-19-2009, 11:24 PM
the "J-xx" is same size of tu-22

GazB
03-20-2009, 01:47 AM
And when the hell will Russian AF procure R-77s ? I find it unbelievable that Russia still hasnt acquired this missile despite it is in production since 1996 and was exported...

I remember reading that they decided the cost made it a problem. Also I believe the seekers at that time were made in the Ukraine as well. They decided the R-27 modular system performed well enough in their opinion and that work would be done to improve the range and performance of the R-77 before they took it into service. Several hundred have been made and sold to India and China. The Russian AF will likely introduce the R-77M along with a replacement for the R-33 (R-37M), and the R-73 (R-74) when the PAK-FA is close to entering service. Until then the Modular R-27 family plus the R-33, and R-73 will soldier on. Their might be a similar modular family of R-77s made to replace the R-27 with long and short burn motor models and versions with various different seeker heads.


Wonder how a Kh-25 or Kh-29 would do against an MBT. . .

Kh-25 is comparable to Maverick, with a 90kg warhead. The Kh-29 has no western equivelents and has a 320kg HEAT warhead that is designed to demolish the steel and concrete foundations of major structures like bridges. No Tank would survive.


They should have given the Su-34 the ability to use the AT-16.

Not really. The F-15E or F-111 is not used as a tank buster in US service and I doubt the Su-34 or Su-24 it replaces has/was ever used for such a role.


The BBC ran a documentary last night about Russia's upgrades for its armed forces - with pictures from the 4th TsBPiPLS at Lipetsk.

You can see the documentary here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00jc39w/Newsnight_17_03_2009/).

Can't be viewed outside the UK...


What's the Frogfoot gonna do to a tank? Spray it with unguided rockets?

A 250kg oe 500kg HE bomb within a few metres of a tank will ruin its day. Either that or a cluster bomb with sensor fused submunitions will ruin any tankers day...

GazB
03-20-2009, 03:11 AM
Found these two vids that I found interesting and relevant to this thread:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/world_news_america/7949283.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/world_news_america/7951930.stm

Snoshi
03-20-2009, 03:12 AM
Can't be viewed outside the UK...


Just use an UK proxy

shardana
03-20-2009, 04:01 AM
bot from www.translate.ru (http://www.translate.ru) :

PAK FA* threatens monopoly of the USA for technology "Stealth"
06.03.2009 Foreign military experts are anxious by progress which is shown recently by Russia in creation of a perspective aviacomplex of the fifth generation (PAK FA) which working out is conducted by company "Suhoi". The German military portal «Defence professional» has published article «That will be, when the American monopoly for"Stealth"will end? In it it is said that the Russian fighter is capable to create a competition in air and in the world market to the American planes F-22 and F-35. It is thus noticed that the declared technical characteristics of PAK FA correspond to the most perfect for today F-22 which problem is maintenance of the American air superiority. The author of article is compelled to recognise that Russia is capable to create"fighter-invisible being". The Russian enterprises can make the profiles of the plane providing малозаметность. Thus use of special coverings and the materials which are absorbing and not reflecting signals of locators, does the plane almost imperceptible for a radar of the opponent. Modern Russian manufacturing techniques of engines do not concede to the western. The technology of creation of a flat nozzle of the engine for PAK FA with a view of its achievement малозаметности is thus used similar American. Also it is noticed that on the newest fighter Su-35 are already used a digital control system of flight and сетецентрические technologies of conducting and a control of operations. In last generation of the Russian radar with the active phased lattice digital technologies and the algorithms of high-speed data processing similar to technologies of the American radar, appeared in current decade are applied. In a material it is especially noticed that малозаметность PAK FA will make inefficient or will complicate use of the American rockets "air-air" of the big range. Thereof air fight will occur on average and small distances within direct visibility. And it will balance chances F-22 and PAK FA. Other American planes cannot adequately resist to the Russian fighter. According to experts, F-35 already experiences complexities in counteraction of Su-35 with its low effective area of reflexion of signals of the radar, the equal area of a tennis ball. At achievement of PAK ФА of lower indicators on the area of reflexion of signals of a radar new American fighter F-35, according to the author of article, gets to the same «a black hole of struggle for a survival», as F-16C/E, F-15C/E and F/A-18A-F. The first pre-production models of PAK ФА are made on the Komsomol-on-cupid aviation production association of a name J.A.Gagarina (Open Society "КнААПО"). As the general director of holding "Suhoi" Michael Pogosjan at the exhibition which has passed in February «Aero India 2009» has informed, the first flights of the new plane will begin within a year.

* PAK FA
abbreviation - Perspective aviation complex of battlefield aircraft


____________


PAK FA
reasoning, compilations, prototype, 3d models, hardware

http://paralay.com/pakfasu.html
http://www.paralay.com/pakfamig.html

You can find the article in the official KNAAPO web site even if is a bit propaganda I cannot believe they don't know at all about what they are writing.
Look progress PAK FA competitor

Bachelor
03-20-2009, 06:57 AM
Found these two vids that I found interesting and relevant to this thread:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/world_news_america/7949283.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/world_news_america/7951930.stm

Really interestingly and sharply.


You can find the article in the official KNAAPO web site even if is a bit propaganda I cannot believe they don't know at all about what they are writing.
Look progress PAK FA competitor


There are many promotion both propaganda articles about F-22 (35) in US Mass media. Just open official site of Boeing.... Bhahahahaha! More of it is real fairy tales. And... So what if Russians is little tell about PAK FA? May be Americans is envy?

shardana
03-20-2009, 09:19 AM
Really interestingly and sharply.



There are many promotion both propaganda articles about F-22 (35) in US Mass media. Just open official site of Boeing.... Bhahahahaha! More of it is real fairy tales. And... So what if Russians is little tell about PAK FA? May be Americans is envy?

I don't think that Nort Americans are really envy about PAK-FA but for sure they are very interested to know more on the plane.
This will help to justify the purchase of more F22 at least.

Anybody who knows more detail on S1000 italo-russian export Submarine project.
Promosso dal Ministero della Difesa italiana, la collaborazione fra FINCANTIERI Direzione Navi Militari e il Partner Russo, l’impresa statale, Central Design Bureau For Marine Engineering “RUBIN” (all’interno del Federal State Unitary Enterprise “ROSOBORONEXPORT“), ha portato al progetto S1000, sviluppato in base a criteri di costo / efficacia, facendo uso degli equipaggiamenti più moderni provenienti dai due paesi.
Caratteristiche principali (mai characteristics)
Lunghezza fuori tutto (lenght)
56,20
m
Diametro esterno dello scafo resistente
5,50
m
Dislocamento in immersione
circa 1.100
t
Profondità di immersione
> 250
m
Pescaggio
5,40
m
Timoni di poppa
4 X
tipo
Velocità massima in immersione
>14
nodi



IMPIANTO DI PROPULSIONE: (propulsion)


1 motore elettrico a magneti permanenti


motore di propulsione magnetico
1.000
kW
Motori diesel (sovralimentati)
2 x 715
kW
Generatori
2 x 650
kW
2 gruppi di batterie 112 celle al piombo ciascuno


Capacità AIP (basata su fuel cell)
200
kW
1 albero elica, 7 pale oblique





AUTONOMIA IN IMMERSIONE:


Snort + Batterie a 4 nodi
3.000
miglia
Propulsione in assenza d’aria (AIP) a 4 nodi
1.000
miglia
Equipaggio + unità speciali
16 + 6




SISTEMA DI COMBATTIMENTO (combat system)
6 camere per siluri a poppa (tipo spinta in fuori) con la possibilità di operare fino a 6 + 8:
Siluri filoguidati da 21 pollici (533 mm) (guided torpedos)


Sistema anti-siluro (dispositivi di simulazione o diversivi)


CMS con 5 Consoles Multifunzionali


Sensori e Sistema di Navigazione Integrati


1 unità sonar passivo/attivo (Base conforme, Intercezione Array, Rilevamento Mine, ONA)
Telefono subacqueo


1 sollevamento (Optronic Mast) equipaggiato di: TV / IR, ESM e intercettatore Laser
sistema ESM permette la classificazione automatica impiegando la propria banca dati
1 Radar di navigazione con capacità ARPA


Sistema di Comunicazioni Interno / Esterno dotato di:


2 antenne che permettono di operare (voce e dati) nelle frequenze


HF, UHF, UHF-SATCOM, VHF


1 antenna VLF

SORRY FOR THE ITALIAN



CERCA LA

shardana
03-20-2009, 09:25 AM
[quote=shardana;3999979]I don't think that Nort Americans are really envy about PAK-FA but for sure they are very interested to know more on the plane.
This will help to justify the purchase of more F22 at least.

Anybody who knows more detail on S1000 italo-russian export Submarine project?
Promosso dal Ministero della Difesa italiana, la collaborazione fra FINCANTIERI Direzione Navi Militari e il Partner Russo, l’impresa statale, Central Design Bureau For Marine Engineering “RUBIN” (all’interno del Federal State Unitary Enterprise “ROSOBORONEXPORT“), ha portato al progetto S1000, sviluppato in base a criteri di costo / efficacia, facendo uso degli equipaggiamenti più moderni provenienti dai due paesi.
Caratteristiche principali (mai characteristics)
Lunghezza fuori tutto (lenght)
56,20
m
Diametro esterno dello scafo resistente
5,50
m
Dislocamento in immersione
circa 1.100
t
Profondità di immersione
> 250
m
Pescaggio
5,40
m
Timoni di poppa
4 X
tipo
Velocità massima in immersione
>14
nodi



IMPIANTO DI PROPULSIONE: (propulsion)


1 motore elettrico a magneti permanenti


motore di propulsione magnetico
1.000
kW
Motori diesel (sovralimentati)
2 x 715
kW
Generatori
2 x 650
kW
2 gruppi di batterie 112 celle al piombo ciascuno


Capacità AIP (basata su fuel cell)
200
kW
1 albero elica, 7 pale oblique





AUTONOMIA IN IMMERSIONE:


Snort + Batterie a 4 nodi
3.000
miglia
Propulsione in assenza d’aria (AIP) a 4 nodi
1.000
miglia
Equipaggio + unità speciali
16 + 6




SISTEMA DI COMBATTIMENTO (combat system)
6 camere per siluri a poppa (tipo spinta in fuori) con la possibilità di operare fino a 6 + 8:
Siluri filoguidati da 21 pollici (533 mm) (guided torpedos)


Sistema anti-siluro (dispositivi di simulazione o diversivi)


CMS con 5 Consoles Multifunzionali


Sensori e Sistema di Navigazione Integrati


1 unità sonar passivo/attivo (Base conforme, Intercezione Array, Rilevamento Mine, ONA)
Telefono subacqueo


1 sollevamento (Optronic Mast) equipaggiato di: TV / IR, ESM e intercettatore Laser
sistema ESM permette la classificazione automatica impiegando la propria banca dati
1 Radar di navigazione con capacità ARPA


Sistema di Comunicazioni Interno / Esterno dotato di:


2 antenne che permettono di operare (voce e dati) nelle frequenze


HF, UHF, UHF-SATCOM, VHF


1 antenna VLF

SORRY FOR THE ITALIAN
In english

Promoted by ITALIAN MoD, the cooperation between FINCANTIERI Naval Vessel Business Unit and Russian Partner State-Owned Enterprise Central Design Bureau For Marine Engineering “RUBIN” (under the aegis of Russian Federal State Unitary Enterprise “ROSOBORONEXPORT“), resulted in the S1000 design, which have been designed on the basis of the most cost-effective equipments of both Countries.
Main Characteristics Shipowner: New project
Type: Submarine



Length overall56,20mOuter diameter of pressure hull5,50mSubmerged displacement about1100typeDiving depth>250mDraft5,40mStern rudders4 XtypeMaximum submerged speed>14knots PROPULSION PLANT 1 multi electronic permanent magnet propulsion motor1000kWDiesel engines (turbocharged)2 x 715kWGenerators2 x 650kW2 battery banks of 112 lead cells each in 2 separate compartments AIP capability (Fuel cell based)200kW1 propeller shaft, 7 skewed blades SUBMERGED ENDURANCE Snort + Batteries at 4 knots3000N.M.Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) at 4 knots1000N.M.Crew + special forces16 + 6 COMBAT SYSTEM6 Fwd Torpedo Tubes (Push-Out Type) with capability to manage a combination of up to 6 + 8: - 21 inches (533 mm) Wire Guided Torpedoes - Antiship / Strike Missiles Bottom Mines Torpedo Countermeasures System (Emulator/Decoy) 5 Multifunction CMS Consoles, Integrating sensors and navigation 1 Passive/Active Sonar Suite (Conformal Array, Intercept Array, Mine Avoidance, ONA) Integrated Navigation System Underwater Telephone 1 x Optronic Mast (TV IR, Laser Range Finder/ESM early warning) 1 x ESM, for automatic intercepted radar classification through own libraries 1 x Navigation Radar with ARPA facilities Internal Communication System 2 x integrated external communication masts for voice and data communications in the frequencies HF, UHF, UHF-SATCOM, VHF 1 x VLF antenna

SEARCH CE
IR

CA I seems a

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-20-2009, 10:46 AM
Again some new PAK-FA speculations from paralay...

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-20-2009, 11:12 AM
MiG-35/29OVT/29K & YAK-130

http://media.izvestia.ru/army/article809/



Composit materials for new generation aircrafts...

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=262516

shardana
03-20-2009, 11:17 AM
Again some new PAK-FA speculations from paralay...

The aircraft shape is interesting, is it the shape of the engine Nozzles confirmed as far as it is pubblicized?
Could it be that for radar cross section reduction they prefer the two dimensional (f22 like) instead the circular tridimensional SU35 style?

Nuclear_Warrior
03-20-2009, 12:08 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70644&d=1237565042

Is that a AN-94? Or just a normal AK? (guy with the Grey clothes)

edi213009
03-20-2009, 12:10 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70644&d=1237565042

Is that a AN-94? Or just a normal AK? (guy with the Grey clothes)

probably Ak103

KoTeMoRe
03-20-2009, 12:53 PM
probably Ak103

Highly curved magazine + 74 style muzzle brake= 103 fo' sho'!

Nuclear_Warrior
03-20-2009, 12:54 PM
Thank you!

TheArmenian
03-20-2009, 01:13 PM
Can't be viewed outside the UK...


Try here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/7952680.stm

Wiedzmin
03-20-2009, 02:00 PM
Before saying hi and stuff... I want to say that more pics less bull***** needs to be posted here.

Hi.

Got some upgraded BMP-2 pics:



VS



Wich one is "better" and does somebody have more off such pics of upgraded BMP's?

it's "Berejok" weaponary station(? комплекс вооружения) first photo early model, second late model + ballistic protection


http://www.kurganmash.ru/machines/bmp2u/fire_power/

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6320/bmp2mod2.jpg

bmp 2 have many mod's, with "Bahcha", etc

http://otvaga2004.narod.ru/otvaga2004/armour-rus-bmp2/a_bmp2m.htm

http://otvaga2004.narod.ru/otvaga2004/armour-rus-bmp2/a_bmp2_kornet.htm

Vympel
03-20-2009, 03:59 PM
Wiedzim, how come first and second version of "Barejok" have different AT tubes? And what mod is on your posted photo? We are going in the right direction. Those BMP now have decent armor.

TheArmenian
03-20-2009, 04:19 PM
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1509/1983253.jpg


http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3462/1983241.jpg
AK-74

K-5
03-20-2009, 07:57 PM
Wich one is "better" and does somebody have more off such pics of upgraded BMP's?
They are essentially the same. Both have, as previously stated, Berezhok combat module with FCS taken form BMD-4M and ERA specially developed for thin armored vehicles. Slated one is a must for urban operations IMO.
Another, less extensive, upgrade proposal:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MlcIJtVqC0I/SVPXYDWRUbI/AAAAAAAAC8s/wyvFi131MYg/s1600/2007710236621641.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MlcIJtVqC0I/SVPXYmiA6XI/AAAAAAAAC88/x5Mk68vYaFw/s1600/20077102355678588.jpg

Baltic Marines BTR-80:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/2573834712_10a1dbb24a_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3261/2573831028_4f44e02cf1_b.jpg

Razputin
03-20-2009, 08:49 PM
^^ Who the hell wrote that article? rofl
the article makes a perfectly valid point and is actually based on the analysis by Dr Carlo Kopp:

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/260/

and this

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-01.html#mozTocId927290

rOjOdogg
03-20-2009, 11:31 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70644&d=1237565042

Is that a AN-94? Or just a normal AK? (guy with the Grey clothes)
Where was this photo taken? How come he needs bodyguards with those weapons out at the ready, I thought most of russia was pretty safe?

Nuclear_Warrior
03-20-2009, 11:39 PM
Where was this photo taken? How come he needs bodyguards with those weapons out at the ready, I thought most of russia was pretty safe?

Chechnya I believe. Not a safe place at all.

rOjOdogg
03-20-2009, 11:41 PM
Yea I can understand that, thanks.

asch
03-21-2009, 02:11 AM
Where was this photo taken? How come he needs bodyguards with those weapons out at the ready, I thought most of russia was pretty safe?
second armed guy in plain clothes have a Vikhr, btw.

Vympel
03-21-2009, 05:13 AM
ic Marines BTR-80:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3261/2573831028_4f44e02cf1_b.jpg

MAN truck in the left corner? Do we use foreign trucks in army?(ex. belarus ones)

K-5
03-21-2009, 05:25 AM
MAN truck in the left corner? Do we use foreign trucks in army?(ex. belarus ones)
I think those pics were taken during BaltOps maneuvers, so it most likely belongs to one of NATO participants.

shuravee
03-21-2009, 05:43 AM
Where was this photo taken? How come he needs bodyguards with those weapons out at the ready, I thought most of russia was pretty safe?

This photo was taken in Beslan, september 2004. It is TV news screenshot actually.

Leoparden
03-21-2009, 06:35 AM
The Truck is from the Danish Army...

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-21-2009, 07:39 AM
The aircraft shape is interesting, is it the shape of the engine Nozzles confirmed as far as it is pubblicized?
Could it be that for radar cross section reduction they prefer the two dimensional (f22 like) instead the circular tridimensional SU35 style?

Nothing confirmed now by the officials,but some guys with interesting contacts says,the first prototype will have almost the same tail as the Su-35.
All we can do is waiting untill august...


Dont know if repost or not....
http://**********/tracks/1633735.html?v=858f3b24d616bf4f18f32847cbc49918

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-21-2009, 08:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q93pWV1vxsc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skyscrapercity.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D250757%26page%3D76&feature=player_embedded

Vympel
03-21-2009, 08:53 AM
The Truck is from the Danish Army...
All your truck are belong to us:roll:
Thanks for answers comrades

jaybe
03-21-2009, 09:00 AM
baltops 2004

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70689&stc=1&d=1237640317


lot of photos of baltops-2008

http://www.navalhistory.dk/english/PhotoAlbums/2008_Baltops08/Baltops08.htm

MZKT
03-21-2009, 09:13 AM
This photo was taken in Beslan, september 2004. It is TV news screenshot actually.

The BTR is marked with navy flag so belongs to naval infantry. There were no naval infantry units in Beslan. Baltops is more probably

jaybe
03-21-2009, 09:23 AM
The BTR is marked with navy flag so belongs to naval infantry. There were no naval infantry units in Beslan. Baltops is more probably

he speaks about photo with Putin

Cornerstone
03-21-2009, 10:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q93pWV1vxsc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skyscrapercity.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D250757%26page%3D76&feature=player_embedded
cool vid man thanks for posting

-Julik- 4.GdKp
03-21-2009, 10:55 AM
Exercises...
http://zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/army/0028347/

http://zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/army/0028362/


Some new equipment for police
http://zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/0028355/

Flankerman
03-21-2009, 11:12 AM
Nothing confirmed now by the officials,but some guys with interesting contacts says,the first prototype will have almost the same tail as the Su-35.
All we can do is waiting untill august...

Talking about Su-35 tails (fins)..........

Can these guys with interesting contacts confirm that the fin on the Su-35 is smaller than a standard Su-27 fin ???

I know that the rudder is bigger - but it has been reported that the whole fin is actually smaller.

I took loads of photos at MAKS 2007 - and compared the Su-35 fin with the Su-27SMK next to it - but I could not see any significant difference.

The fin tips are different - I am just talking about total fin area (excluding rudders).

http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/moscow_2007_files/day03_046.jpg

I am intrigued.....

Ken

dzhaga-dzhaga
03-21-2009, 03:18 PM
back



The fourth part of the report. Unfortunatelly the majority of aircrafts were under winter cover. I'm planning to take the photos one more time in late spring or summer.

Full 4-th part: http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/165




Li-2

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232652718_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232652718_o.jpg)






MiG-15 UTI

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653049_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653049_o.jpg)






MiG-17

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653048_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653048_o.jpg)






MiG-21 PFS

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653467_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653467_o.jpg)






http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653462_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653462_o.jpg)








MiG-23

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653443_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653443_o.jpg)







Ka-25 PLO

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232652087_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232652087_o.jpg)



MiG-29

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653435_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653435_o.jpg)





Su-22

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654638_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654638_o.jpg)






http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654115_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654115_o.jpg)







Su-15 TM

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654122_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654122_o.jpg)







Su-25

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654636_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654636_o.jpg)





http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654634_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232654634_o.jpg)






Mi-8

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653069_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653069_o.jpg)






Mi-24

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653062_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653062_o.jpg)





http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653058_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232653058_o.jpg)







Ka-26

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232652078_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232652078_o.jpg)






http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232651083_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232651083_o.jpg)

jaybe
03-21-2009, 03:25 PM
perfect photos as usual :)

somrandom
03-21-2009, 03:44 PM
Talking about Su-35 tails (fins)..........

Can these guys with interesting contacts confirm that the fin on the Su-35 is smaller than a standard Su-27 fin ???

I know that the rudder is bigger - but it has been reported that the whole fin is actually smaller.

I took loads of photos at MAKS 2007 - and compared the Su-35 fin with the Su-27SMK next to it - but I could not see any significant difference.

The fin tips are different - I am just talking about total fin area (excluding rudders).



I am intrigued.....

Ken


They might be smaller due to RCS reduction features.

piton_kaa
03-21-2009, 04:12 PM
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1509/1983253.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3462/1983241.jpg
AK-74
AK-74M you wanted to say

abhaz
03-21-2009, 04:23 PM
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2590/19bh1.jpg
yea you're right. its J-XX. nice bird.
China already developing 5 th generation ? Where do they got the technology from ?

Ronguild
03-21-2009, 04:26 PM
back
Ahhhh ! Good to see you.




Li-2

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232652718_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1232652718_o.jpg)


Is that an original Lisunov or a customized DAKOTA ?

sepheronx
03-21-2009, 05:06 PM
China already developing 5 th generation ? Where do they got the technology from ?

More then likely they developed it themselves from what they learned off of J-10 and J-11/SU-27. It probably does not have full 5th gen characteristics (stealth composite materials and advanced EWS), but it probably has enough capabilities to out be a 4++ aircraft with aspects of 5th Gen.

dzhaga-dzhaga
03-21-2009, 06:20 PM
Ahhhh ! Good to see you.



Is that an original Lisunov or a customized DAKOTA ?

not sure, but it seems it's oiginal

Flankerman
03-21-2009, 06:58 PM
Great photos Dzhaga-Dzhagha.

The collection at Park Pobed is great and well maintained - but why have they repainted some of the exhibits in such garish, unauthentic colours ????

The MiG-23 and Su-17 look awfull.

I know they have to try and preserve them with a coat of paint and that money is a problem - but they could at least try for some historical accuracy.

The same thing is going on at Monino - historically important aircraft being re-painted in non-authentic colours.

I'll still be back there in August though........ :)

Flankerman
03-21-2009, 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by Ronguild
Is that an original Lisunov or a customized DAKOTA ?

It's an original Li-2T, it is ex-CCCP-48986 painted up in fake military markings.

I photographed it being assembled in 1994... then again a few years later.

In the latest photo I took last year it now has a dorsal turret....

Ken

Alef
03-21-2009, 09:31 PM
friendly fire, but that guys had super luck.
http://**********/tracks/280421.html

Minotauro1
03-21-2009, 10:17 PM
friendly fire, but that guys had super luck.
http://**********/tracks/280421.html

What were they firing from?.

emind
03-21-2009, 10:48 PM
China already developing 5 th generation ? Where do they got the technology from ?

I am not quite sure if they exactly got this techology, but the design is similar in a way to mig 1.44. More slick though

K-5
03-21-2009, 11:04 PM
friendly fire, but that guys had super luck.
http://video.**********/5cb334a2c8da686305c01f7597d89779
I'm guessing Mi-17Sh?
Good thing they fired Shturm missile first. It's about time RA starts using better comms and slime light patches for quick recognition especially now when Dagestan and Ingushetia are about to erupt in violence again.

I am not quite sure if they exactly got this techology, but the design is similar in a way to mig 1.44. More slick though
Picture is hoax, just drop it.

sektor
03-22-2009, 12:31 AM
I'm guessing Mi-17Sh?
Good thing they fired Shturm missile first. It's about time RA starts using better comms and slime light patches for quick recognition especially now when Dagestan and Ingushetia are about to erupt in violence again.

Picture is hoax, just drop it.

i watched the video but i never heard about them talking that it was Friendly Fire.

GazB
03-22-2009, 01:08 AM
I am not quite sure if they exactly got this techology, but the design is similar in a way to mig 1.44. More slick though

I have no history of building real fighters but I could create models of aircraft with wood and plastic and make them look really impressive too. Doesn't mean I am on the same level as Boeing or MIG or Sukhoi.

void
03-22-2009, 02:06 AM
The photoshopped J-XX plane is WAAAY too big to be a fighter. It looks bigger than a Mig-31, unless the people standing in front of it are midgets.

shardana
03-22-2009, 04:16 AM
MiG-35/29OVT/29K & YAK-130

http://media.izvestia.ru/army/article809/



Composit materials for new generation aircrafts...

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=262516

Two comments:

a) I believe that if the Mig35 will be able to arrive to close combat end dogfight it could have good chance against F35
b) Yak 130 seems a bit ahead integrating waepons vs its italian cousin M346

shardana
03-22-2009, 04:19 AM
the article makes a perfectly valid point and is actually based on the analysis by Dr Carlo Kopp:

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/260/

and this

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-01.html#mozTocId927290

I agree with you and with the Australian Doctor

shardana
03-22-2009, 04:24 AM
Nothing confirmed now by the officials,but some guys with interesting contacts says,the first prototype will have almost the same tail as the Su-35.
All we can do is waiting untill august...


Dont know if repost or not....
http://**********/tracks/1633735.html?v=858f3b24d616bf4f18f32847cbc49918

It could reasonable lower risk and better performance in terms of manouveraibilty at expense probably of radar trace.

We will wait until August (I hope).

shardana
03-22-2009, 04:25 AM
It could reasonable lower risk and better performance in terms of manouveraibilty at expense probably of radar trace.

We will wait until August (I hope).
It could be reasonable ....

Vympel
03-22-2009, 04:37 AM
I'm guessing Mi-17Sh?
It's about time RA starts using better comms and slime light patches for quick recognition especially


x2 But i guess it ain't going happen in near time

Revive
03-22-2009, 04:38 AM
i think this is called back to back post

Alef
03-22-2009, 04:43 AM
i watched the video but i never heard about them talking that it was Friendly Fire.

It's written in the description. 3 mans went to hunt without permission so helicopter had its own hunt.

sektor
03-22-2009, 04:56 AM
It's written in the description. 3 mans went to hunt without permission so helicopter had its own hunt.

Yea like you should always trust a description..............

Alef
03-22-2009, 04:57 AM
Yea like you should always trust a description..............
mmm.. why not :-) ?

dzhaga-dzhaga
03-22-2009, 05:07 AM
Great photos Dzhaga-Dzhagha.

The collection at Park Pobed is great and well maintained - but why have they repainted some of the exhibits in such garish, unauthentic colours ????

The MiG-23 and Su-17 look awfull.

I know they have to try and preserve them with a coat of paint and that money is a problem - but they could at least try for some historical accuracy.

The same thing is going on at Monino - historically important aircraft being re-painted in non-authentic colours.

I'll still be back there in August though........ :)

Agree, the colours were very unexpected for me :) but it's still a great collection

:) AFAIK you are visiting MAKSs and Moscow "air surroundings" since 2003, hope this year will be something interesting for your group

Vympel
03-22-2009, 05:14 AM
mmm.. why not :-) ?

Are you trying to be stupid? Look at the videos in youtube. Example, there was video named Russian road crossing that showed drunkard crossing the road on his four. But in fact it was filmed in lithuania and poster was lithuanian. And there is so many video of that kind.

K-5
03-22-2009, 05:24 AM
Are you trying to be stupid? Look at the videos in youtube. Example, there was video named Russian road crossing that showed drunkard crossing the road on his four. But in fact it was filmed in lithuania and poster was lithuanian. And there is so many video of that kind.
Drunkard on all four? Oh, it's got to be a Russian. You never see an American drinking himslef half to death, especially during third week of March.
That vid came from someone who had direct access to either debrief or data recorder from the chopper itself, so it is likely to be what author claims it to be.

dzhaga-dzhaga
03-22-2009, 05:25 AM
Central Museum of the Great Patriotic war 1941-1945 - Open-air static displays - Part 5 NAVYsection

The last part of the report - NAVY exposition.

Full part: http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/166

Komsomolets class torpedo boat

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817169_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817169_o.jpg)




http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817172_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817172_o.jpg)




305-mm TM-3-12 gun

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234816241_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234816241_o.jpg)




http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234816240_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234816240_o.jpg)





http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234816253_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234816253_o.jpg)






SHCH-307 submarine conning tower

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817738_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817738_o.jpg)




http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817734_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817734_o.jpg)



152-mm MU-2 artillery mount

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815282_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815282_o.jpg)




http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815284_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815284_o.jpg)





130-mm B-13 artillery mount

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234814152_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234814152_o.jpg)





http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815290_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815290_o.jpg)





http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234814154_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234814154_o.jpg)







100-mm B-34-U-1 artillery mount

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234814178_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234814178_o.jpg)





152-mm Kane gun

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815286_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815286_o.jpg)





85-mm 90-K artillery mount

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813328_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813328_o.jpg)





53-39 torpedo :)

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813332_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813332_o.jpg)





305-mm Battleship turret barrel

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815279_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234815279_o.jpg)






Torpedo tube mount

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234819316_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234819316_o.jpg)


Desk-house erection of FUGAS base-type mine sweeper (model)

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817174_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817174_o.jpg)




http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817176_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817176_o.jpg)




BMB-23 bomb thrower

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234816238_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234816238_o.jpg)





2M-3M double-machinegun turret artillery mount

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813347_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813347_o.jpg)





37-mm V-11 sea twin auto artillery mount

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813340_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813340_o.jpg)




http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813344_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813344_o.jpg)





85-mm KS-12 AA gun

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234814184_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234814184_o.jpg)






L-3 submarine conning tower

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817754_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817754_o.jpg)





45-mm 21-K sea deck artillery mount

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813337_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234813337_o.jpg)





Shmel class river guard artillery armored boat

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817727_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817727_o.jpg)




http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817724_g.jpg

2250x1500 (http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817724_o.jpg)

Alef
03-22-2009, 05:33 AM
Are you trying to be stupid? Look at the videos in youtube. Example, there was video named Russian road crossing that showed drunkard crossing the road on his four. But in fact it was filmed in lithuania and poster was lithuanian. And there is so many video of that kind.
whats your problem? there is video, there are description and comments, if u have any additional information about this, post it. you can have doubts about almost everything, but for me its another video in internet. why i should prove you something.
friendly fire or not, action usage of helicopter thats interesting for me.

void
03-22-2009, 06:52 AM
For those interested, the new issue of the Moscow Defense Brief is out:
http://mdb.cast.ru

Alarich
03-22-2009, 09:54 AM
This canons is not russian, it is finnish!http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234816241_g.jpg

Alarich
03-22-2009, 10:04 AM
It`s about war in Georgia. And "Союз нерушимый"-words from soviet hymn.http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3102/kerpe1.b/0_1e112_4742ab55_XL.jpg

dzhaga-dzhaga
03-22-2009, 10:24 AM
This canons is not russian, it is finnish!

really?!

it was developed in 30-s in TsKB-19 and was built in Nikolaev. Finns captured it during the war, repaired and used



It`s about war in Georgia. And "Союз нерушимый"-words from soviet hymn.

repost of the reposted repost, search :) the thread before posting please

Alarich
03-22-2009, 10:43 AM
really?!

it was developed in 30-s in TsKB-19 and was built in Nikolaev. Finns captured it during the war, repaired and used
That, wich was built in Nikolaev, was destroyed on Hanko in 1941 and never wasn`t repaired. Finns build the same from cannons of russian ship General Alekseev.



repost of the reposted repost, search :) the thread before posting please
That, wich was built in Nikolaev, was destroyed on Hanko in 1941 and never wasn`t

AlexMartin2
03-22-2009, 11:47 AM
Latest wargames in Siberia. MoD tried how newly formed brigade will do their job.
Nice video.

http://zvezdanews.ru/video/day_events/army/0028347/

Zvezda
03-22-2009, 03:58 PM
Komsomolets class torpedo boat Very pretty PT boat

dzhaga-dzhaga
03-22-2009, 04:22 PM
That, wich was built in Nikolaev, was destroyed on Hanko in 1941 and never wasn`t

there was a battery with several cannons
and there are 3 of them in museums now

peter.pl
03-22-2009, 05:23 PM
It`s about war in Georgia. And "Союз нерушимый"-words from soviet hymn.http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3102/kerpe1.b/0_1e112_4742ab55_XL.jpg

It's movie, book, poster, komix or what ?
Next time give more info and translate not-english words, not everyone knows russian :) I know so I will translate ;)
Союз нерушимый - indomitable union (is it ok ?)
indomitable union - why they named that like that ?

SniperLane
03-22-2009, 05:26 PM
find the original post and read what you need in there

Xaito
03-22-2009, 05:33 PM
Central Museum of the Great Patriotic war 1941-1945 - Open-air static displays - Part 5 NAVYsection

The last part of the report - NAVY exposition.

Full part: http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/166

Komsomolets class torpedo boat

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1234817169_g.jpg


thanks for your pics - they're great.

I think I've seen such a torpedo boat in Bulgaria (Navy museum in Varna) - looks very nice.

Red_Rage
03-22-2009, 05:42 PM
It's movie, book, poster, komix or what ?
Next time give more info and translate not-english words, not everyone knows russian :) I know so I will translate ;)
Союз нерушимый - indomitable union (is it ok ?)
indomitable union - why they named that like that ?


It is a front page of a magazine affiliated with artofwar.ru, which is probably the best source for first hand accounts from recent wars. Here's their site - http://www.navoine.ru/

The photograph is from Arkady Babchenko's series in S.Ossetia. Here is the full album - http://www.navoine.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=551#551
And here is his written article to go with pictures - http://www.navoine.ru/articles/yuzhnaya-osetiya/347 It was recently translated by one of the members, but the thread mysteriously dissappeared after 8 posts.

More correct translation of the title would be "Indestructable union" or more literally "Uncrushable union". The title is an ironic reference to all the internal violence in post-Soviet space - ie. previously united and integrated countries with shared culture for over 100 years disintegrating into a series of petty conflicts with nationalistic overtones, while Russia plays the role of "fireman". That's the way i interpreted it at least.

void
03-22-2009, 05:51 PM
It's also a reference to the Soviet Anthem, those being the first 2 words of the anthem.

GazB
03-22-2009, 07:46 PM
Thanks for posting those photos dzhaga-dzhaga.

The
2M-3M double-machinegun turret artillery mount is a rather powerful 25mm cannon, and is still used on some vessels (particularly mine vessels) because the fact that it is manually aimed makes it easier to hit surfaced mines than the 30mm guns normally used for air defence. The 25mm shell these weapons fire is particularly powerful.

(Note I would expect that the more modern Kashtan and Palma air defence turrets with EO and thermal channels as well as high frequency radar should be able to take the role of hitting small surfaced targets on more modern Russian vessels. The single barrel 25mm guns had better accuracy than the gatling guns an so were better at hitting point targets, whereas the gatlings tended to spray their rounds in the intention of increasing hit probability against a small manouvering target.)

Also thanks for posting a picture of the
45-mm 21-K sea deck artillery mountwhich AFAIK is still fitted to modern Soviet and Russian vessels as a signalling gun, and also for ceremonies firing smoke and flare rounds. On the decks of large modern vessels it is hard to spot...

shardana
03-23-2009, 05:11 AM
Nothing confirmed now by the officials,but some guys with interesting contacts says,the first prototype will have almost the same tail as the Su-35.
All we can do is waiting untill august...


Dont know if repost or not....
http://**********/tracks/1633735.html?v=858f3b24d616bf4f18f32847cbc49918

Look what some one wrote o AW:
if boeing can convert it f15 into stealthy aircraft by building four internal bays and there was need to change airframe structure to build internal bays

then su30mki,mig29,29k,35 can also b converted into stealthy aircraft without changing aircraft structure

there is ample centreline space between airintakes,just need to build removable composite bay which will house weapons internally
and which can fit in the centreline space between air intakes

also build carbon composite radar blockers caps for airintakes for
su30,mig29,35.

in this way su30 can house upto 8 missiles in bay and mig29,35 can carry 4-6 missiles internally and apply RAM coatings on all of airframe

doing this is much harder on rafale,typhoon,f18,gripen because engines in these aircraft r close to each other but su30,mig29,35 have space between engines and building internal bays requires much more redesign and structure change in these aircraft compared to at no cost for su30,
mig29,35

so in this way RCS of mig29,35 can be reduced to significantly less than the actual RCS now they have and composite bay can house 4-6 missiles and PGMs internally it will provide capability of JSF and this can be done in just 2-3 years

so better that RAC MIG build composite bay for centre line space,make composite radar blockers,apply RAM COATINGS and make it stealthy like BOEING did with f15 and stealthy mig35 will cost no more than $ 50 million per aircraf

Anyway like Boing on F15 Silent Eagle I think that PAK -FA tail fin should be canted of 15° for better stealth performance.

Flankerman
03-23-2009, 06:02 AM
there is ample centreline space between airintakes,just need to build removable composite bay which will house weapons internally
and which can fit in the centreline space between air intakes

At MAKS 03, Sukhoi displayed this Su-30MKK demo bird with the area between the jet engines 'filled in' with a box-like structure.

It was also fitted with the M-400 recce pod below the 'box' and a mockup Sapsan pod on the port intake pylon.

I have never found an explanation about what the centreline 'box' was for - maybe it was a trial of an internal bay ???

Interestingly, the red-painted engine blanks said 'MKK-2' (which is a Chinese variant) when I took the first photo.

It had changed to 'UBK 09' for the second photo.....

Ken

Xaito
03-23-2009, 06:44 AM
It's too external for an internal weapon bay ;)
Maybe a new drop-tank, submunition dispenser or some kind of electronic warfare pod?

Unifil 37
03-23-2009, 06:57 AM
the article makes a perfectly valid point and is actually based on the analysis by Dr Carlo Kopp:

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/260/

and this

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-01.html#mozTocId927290

Dr Carlo Kopp
Air Power Australia has been a persistent contributor in recent years to the Australian parliamentary and public defense debate, and has written numerous submissions to a range of federal parliamentary inquiries. Many of these submissions have been dismissed, however, with other defence officials and defence academics maintaining conclusions at significant variance with APA's submissions. The report of the Defence Sub-committee in its "Inquiry into Australian Defence Force Regional Air Superiority", in particular, had multiple occasions to question conclusions reached by Dr Kopp and Mr Goon in their submissions on hehalf of APA [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Power_Australia#cite_note-0). Specifically these conclusions included threat perceptions of India and China, the viability of transferring funding from the RAAF HUG program to a life extension program for the F-111, the technical issues associated with maintaining the aging F-111 fleet and the likely costs associated with an F-22 purchase.
Air Power Australia has criticized the acquisition of F-35 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35) Joint Strike Fighter and interim fighter aircraft (F-18E/F), and has advocated acquisition of the F-22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22) Raptor (despite the current impossibility of this due to a US Congressional export ban under the "Obey" Amendment[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Power_Australia#cite_note-1)), retention of the F-111 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-111) (despite a lack of current and medium term capacity to properly escort such an aircraft operationally to maximise the benefits of the platform's range[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Power_Australia#cite_note-2)), acquisition of additional aerial refueling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_refueling) and heavy lift aircraft, and additional ISTAR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISTAR) platforms for the Royal Australian Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Australian_Air_Force).

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Air_Power_Australia&action=edit&section=1)] Notes

Dr(??) Carlo Kopp is not the best source to use.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/report.php?p=3872624) http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3872624)

void
03-23-2009, 07:43 AM
Pretty nice video of the RPG-32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FelCYse2b0E&feature=related

and another for the RPO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ljvWHs9HU&feature=related

KoTeMoRe
03-23-2009, 07:48 AM
Eeh.. I don't want to be misunderstood...but a school bus.bus as a target? Special kind of advertisement!

TakeIt
03-23-2009, 08:12 AM
and another for the RPO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ljvWHs9HU&feature=related
Interesting, in the vid around 3.50 and 4.45 a soldier is seen with A-91 rifle..

sarhat
03-23-2009, 08:29 AM
GPS- cold steel p-)

http://www.idiot.ru/images/ZZ7EB5878D.jpg

User_Name
03-23-2009, 08:36 AM
Eeh.. I don't want to be misunderstood...but a school bus.bus as a target? Special kind of advertisement!
Same thoughts here, and a jordan shoot range can not be used as an excuse here.

jaybe
03-23-2009, 08:48 AM
GPS- cold steel p-)

http://www.idiot.ru/images/ZZ7EB5878D.jpg

der soviet dezign rulez :)

Arbody
03-23-2009, 08:55 AM
der soviet dezign rulez :)
omg! That's an ugly piece p-) of device

Mr.Woland
03-23-2009, 09:09 AM
GPS- cold steel p-)
http://www.idiot.ru/images/ZZ7EB5878D.jpg
It was developed in 1993 (as i remember).
new http://www.gisinfo.ru/projects/40.htm
http://www.gisinfo.ru/projects/26.htm
http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000787/787069.jpg
http://www.teknol.ru/products/
http://img.lenta.ru/news/2008/01/23/glonass/picture.jpg
http://www.interfax.ru/ftproot/photos/PhotoReport/2008_10_27/400sos2.jpg
http://gazeta.ru/business/2009/01/16/2925309.shtml

jaybe
03-23-2009, 09:10 AM
omg! That's an ugly piece p-) of device

but i'm sure you can kill with it

Mr.Woland
03-23-2009, 09:14 AM
but i'm sure you can kill with it
Grot even able to penterate armour of light APC :) .
http://security.rasu.ru/index.php?catalog=1&org=1507&id=780
PS.
good resource security.rasu.ru

KoTeMoRe
03-23-2009, 09:16 AM
but i'm sure you can kill with it


Off course...it has a nice shiny pin. Go figurep-).

103
03-23-2009, 09:28 AM
thanks for your pics - they're great.

I think I've seen such a torpedo boat in Bulgaria (Navy museum in Varna) - looks very nice.
Actually in the Varna museum the boat is a post-WW2 project 123K.

Xaito
03-23-2009, 11:52 AM
Actually in the Varna museum the boat is a post-WW2 project 123K.

I see - thanks for correction - It looked kinda similar. :)

Red_Rage
03-23-2009, 12:46 PM
great pics lads...just a question, i am interested in purchasing the gorka suit some Russian units wear, is the gorka suitable for use in cold and wet weather


How cold and how wet. Gorka is good up to -1 or -2C with warm layers underneath. It offers great wind protection though, as it was designed for the mountains.

It will get wet eventually under heavy rain, as it is no Goretex. On the plus side it is alot more durable than goretex stuff, to the point where it is almoast impossible to get material to tear (again, it was designed for moutaneering use). So if you combine gore-tex inner layer with Gorka, you won't be dissapointed.

Very comfortable gear, probably the best uniform set to come out of Russia.

dzhaga-dzhaga
03-23-2009, 12:53 PM
Mi-38 demo flight

http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1236800816_g.jpg


http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1236800815_g.jpg



http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1236798551_g.jpg




http://flamber.ru/files/photos/1211922554/1236798558_g.jpg

medo
03-23-2009, 02:24 PM
Anyone know if this version of MT-LB upgrade is operational? This one could be very useful for russian mountain brigades. How many MT-LB-6MB are operational in units?

lexa104
03-23-2009, 02:40 PM
Mi-38 demo flight
Красавец 5 баллов

shuravee
03-23-2009, 02:46 PM
AFB Kubinka, today spotters shot a nice variety of Russian AF aircrafts:

Taken from http://forums.airforce.ru/showthread.php?t=2430

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15825&d=1237827423
MiG-35

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15826&d=1237827567
Su-35

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15827&d=1237827679
Tu-95

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15828&d=1237827789
Tu-160

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15829&d=1237827876
Tu-22M3

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15830&d=1237828048
Su-34

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15831&d=1237828251
And again Su-34

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15832&d=1237828345
And another Su-34

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15833&d=1237828480
MiG-29

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15834&d=1237828744
MiG-29SMT

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15835&d=1237829044
MiG-31BM

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15836&d=1237829139
Su-24

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=15837&d=1237829219
Su-27SM

TR1
03-23-2009, 03:04 PM
yeah, wow , great pics.

Firts time I see the MiG-29UB that came with the Algerian SMTs.

Also nice Su-24m2 pic, all precision weaponry!

calimero2
03-23-2009, 03:37 PM
BTW is the Sukhoi a Su-35BM?

From what I understand, Su-35BM is not an official designator. It's simply Su-35.

humpel
03-23-2009, 03:49 PM
hi guys
I thought I'll ask you here since this is THE place to find good russian military pics

I'm currently searching for pics of the Naval Infantry 1991 and later
I already found some, but need more for investigation purpose
Can someone help me please?

Flankerman
03-23-2009, 06:29 PM
Thanks a million for sharing woot

BTW is the Sukhoi a Su-35BM?

No - it is a Su-27SM - as it says under the photo.

Su-27SM is phase 1 of modification, Su-27BM is phase 2.

Think of them as :- SM = 'Small Modification', BM = 'Big Modification'

That is not the correct translation - but it helps to think of them that way.

And...as calimero2 says, it isn't Su-35BM, but Su-27BM.

Su-35 is just the export designation of Su-27BM - although it looks like the Russian AF might now use 'Su-35' officially for their planes.

Ken

K-5
03-23-2009, 07:32 PM
SPM-2
http://www.otvaga2004.narod.ru/publ_w5/tiger-2_01---.jpg
SPM-3
http://www.otvaga2004.narod.ru/publ_w4/spm_03.jpg

sepheronx
03-23-2009, 09:45 PM
and another for the RPO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ljvWHs9HU&feature=related

What was the other soldiers rifle at 3:48?

Also, as for the RPG-32, isn't that the one that shoots a projectile first to take out ERA armor, then fires that tandom warhead?

Flamming_Python
03-23-2009, 10:43 PM
What was the other soldiers rifle at 3:48?

Also, as for the RPG-32, isn't that the one that shoots a projectile first to take out ERA armor, then fires that tandom warhead?

You're thinking of the RPG-30 which is newer and more advanced than the RPG-32.

The RPG-32 was a joint Russian-Jordanian development (R&D and Design by Russia, requirement specification and most production by Jordan) to design a new RPG for the Jordanian army.

sepheronx
03-23-2009, 10:56 PM
ok, now that I was told twice about the RPG-32.....What about the rifle shown in the RPO video?

sepheronx
03-23-2009, 11:06 PM
That is what I thought it was. But the video is promoting it, wasn't it (subliminal message).

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5323/a9101.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a9101.jpg)

What an awesome rifle though.

Universals
03-24-2009, 12:35 AM
does anybody know the fate of the Narpa Sub...Was it ever turned over the Indians on lease or did it enter service with the Russian navy? Also what's the status of the new Borei and Severodvinsk submarines? There seem to be a lot in the pipeline for the Russian Navy.

TR1
03-24-2009, 01:02 AM
does anybody know the fate of the Narpa Sub...Was it ever turned over the Indians on lease or did it enter service with the Russian navy? Also what's the status of the new Borei and Severodvinsk submarines? There seem to be a lot in the pipeline for the Russian Navy.
Well a new Borei was laid down just a little while ago. Alexander Nevsy should be done this year, Vladimir Monomakh in 2011. Severodvinsk is expected in a year or two.

somrandom1
03-24-2009, 01:34 AM
OMG! The pics made my day. Beautiful modernized birds. Is that Su-24 an "M2" ?

--

Also, does anyone have some hard data on Su-30MKI vs Su-27SM?

Russian brass seems to be confident the "SM" is the top Flanker around.

TR1
03-24-2009, 01:40 AM
That Su-24 is one of the planes modernized by Gefest & T.

And yes, I have seen similar claims by Russian generals that Su-27SM took the best parts of foreign models. They seem pretty sure about it, and it might be very close, I just don't see how it can match the BARS radar, unless the N001V is much more than I have heard.

somrandom
03-24-2009, 01:42 AM
That Su-24 is one of the planes modernized by Gefest & T.

And yes, I have seen similar claims by Russian generals that Su-27SM took the best parts of foreign models. They seem pretty sure about it, and it might be very close, I just don't see how it can match the BARS radar, unless the N001V is much more than I have heard.

N001V should have the range of the Bars, but maybe slightly less tracking / same time engagement.

I want to see some hard info though, and some avionics comparison. The Su-27SM has a far nicer cockpit.