Méxican Armed Forces: Videos, pictures, news,etc.

[Felix U. Gómez]

What do you expect from Wolfpack aka the Air Force lover? For him those things are like Raptors.

Yes, I have noticed that he does tend to come down hard on the navy, army, and anybody else while defending FAM from any sort of criticism even when its flaws are evident to even a blind person. He claims that its equipment is adequate while at the same time posting pictures of things that would have been top of the line in WWII.
I wonder if Wolfpack is related to someone high up in the FAM.

[Wolfpack]

[QUOTE=pedro_rafael;2728847]Before buying tank-busting a/c, wouldn't it be a good idea to start with the basics?

Tanks, tank warfare training with the army (Mexican Army), and then procure airplanes like the A-10 or Su-25. First buy the tanks, and then buy the tank-busting aircraft. That ALONE would take them at least a decade of training.

FAM is already FAMILIAR with the F-5, whose short legs can be allleviated with a refuelling probe. The F-5 plus the EMB-145 AEW&C has proved to be a DANGEROUS combination in exercises in Brasil. And guess what, Mexico already has both.

QUOTE]


That would be capital, I mean to start taking out the whole potential out of our assets, to upgrafe the f-5´s, give them refuel capabilites as well as some data links to work in duos wit the embraers, as well as having a dozen more f´5 would let us ina pretty good state of affairs.

Storm: The a10 is an aircraft way to specialized, we don´t need a tank buster wich can rovide close support is way to much a hammer to crack an ant. But SU-25 for instance would be a great option, since it´s roll is more oriented to the support and attack role rather than the tank busting.
Mexican Army does not face tank busting, and doesn´t have to.

[gatomalo]

[quote=Wolfpack;2729642]

Before buying tank-busting a/c, wouldn't it be a good idea to start with the basics?

Tanks, tank warfare training with the army (Mexican Army), and then procure airplanes like the A-10 or Su-25. First buy the tanks, and then buy the tank-busting aircraft. That ALONE would take them at least a decade of training.

FAM is already FAMILIAR with the F-5, whose short legs can be allleviated with a refuelling probe. The F-5 plus the EMB-145 AEW&C has proved to be a DANGEROUS combination in exercises in Brasil. And guess what, Mexico already has both.

QUOTE]


That would be capital, I mean to start taking out the whole potential out of our assets, to upgrafe the f-5´s, give them refuel capabilites as well as some data links to work in duos wit the embraers, as well as having a dozen more f´5 would let us ina pretty good state of affairs.

Storm: The a10 is an aircraft way to specialized, we don´t need a tank buster wich can rovide close support is way to much a hammer to crack an ant. But SU-25 for instance would be a great option, since it´s roll is more oriented to the support and attack role rather than the tank busting.
Mexican Army does not face tank busting, and doesn´t have to.

The A-10 has never been relegated to the specific role of tank busting. As a matter of fact, during Desert Storm and the current Iraqi and Afghani ops, most of the tank busting was done by Apache's and Cobra's that are attached to the ground units making their advances.

The A-10, like the Frogfoot, is a great close air support and COIN aircraft. They are armored to the gills and can carry everything including the kitchen sink as far as armament goes. You wont find two better platforms suited for those roles. They can carry cluster bombs, napalm, dumb bombs, Hydra rockets, Mavericks, LGB's, Sidewinders for self defence and of course the A-10 has that mighty 30mm cannon that would take any Latin American MBT and make it a cheese grater if the need ever arose.

It can loiter over the battlefield for an extended period of time and can get down in the weeds with the grunts its supporting. It has great short field capabilities and can operate in hot and high conditions better than most platforms. Really, the only drawback the plane has for our purposes is that we dont have it in our inventory.

No mamen!!! I won't say that they weren't nice looking aircraft, especially in FAM colors, but in 1961 when they entered FAM service those things were already obsolete. I sincerely doubt that it could have taken out even an Me-262. Having those in inventory would be the equivalent of the army using Renault FT-17 tanks. Those things should have been in a museum in the 1970's. I understand (not really) your sentimentalism regarding those planes Wolfpack, but sentimentalism isn't enough to cover the defense requirements of the republic. What the country needs is to have at least 40 aircraft like the Saab Grippen, Eurofighter, Rafale, or even maybe a J-10 (pending evaluation of its capabilities). I think that 40 is quite a modest number that will keep our neighbors from wetting their panties. The F-5's are very ineffective and outdated fighters, comparable to stuff from the 70's maybe.

P.S. Why are the T-33's very important in our history? What did they do?

Although I wont disagree with you that the T-33 was a very ineffective option for FAM, I wouldnt necessarily discount the F-5 entirely. There are several companies, including IAI, that offer some superb upgrades for these birds. That might be a more viable option than buying 40 of anything that is current generation. Even the Gripen, which I believe is the cheapest of the ones you mentioned, cost about $45-50 million per unit plus spares, armament and training.

We all now that SEDENA is never going to let either tha FAM or Navy spend the amount of money necessary to get the frontline fighters that we would all like to see them have. Based on that, I think that some A-10 and F-5 purchases and upgrades would be a great option. With cockpit(HOTAS controls), avionics(MFD's and PFD's incorporated to work with HOTAS), upgraded engines, radar(APG-65 or something similar maybe?) and weapons(ASRAAM and maybe AMRAAM) upgrades, the F-5 working in conjuction with airborne battle management systems would make a great little fighter. Dont forget that the USAF, USN and USMC all think highly enough of the Tiger to use it as their preferred adversary aircraft in DACT roles. It cant be too bad of a fighter I would think...

[Sasori]

if the fam cannot have attack helos or front line fighters then the obvious choice for the air force to provide close end support for the army is with the use of the A 10 warthhog its a very prominent fighter bomber that can take more damage than any other fighter out there.
with two full squadrons of A 10 and four or five squadrons of upgraded F5 mexico can stand agains any latin american country with large numbers of tanks and artillery.

Does any one have any critisims to this scenario of forces that would allow the FAM great mutirole purpose planes and at a resonable price.

[AztecMex]

well i am more on the side of the SU-25 but the FAM seems like they really dont like russian stuff so i dont think it would happen and if mexico is able to get A-10s then how come no one else does? Mexico needs something in there reach not something there going to get a headace from and walk away with nothing.

[GAFES]

The new uniform of the Cuerpo Federal de Policía ( CFP ), or Federal Police Corps.

[pedro_rafael]

[QUOTE=Wolfpack;2729642]

Before buying tank-busting a/c, wouldn't it be a good idea to start with the basics?

Tanks, tank warfare training with the army (Mexican Army), and then procure airplanes like the A-10 or Su-25. First buy the tanks, and then buy the tank-busting aircraft. That ALONE would take them at least a decade of training.

FAM is already FAMILIAR with the F-5, whose short legs can be allleviated with a refuelling probe. The F-5 plus the EMB-145 AEW&C has proved to be a DANGEROUS combination in exercises in Brasil. And guess what, Mexico already has both.

QUOTE]


That would be capital, I mean to start taking out the whole potential out of our assets, to upgrafe the f-5´s, give them refuel capabilites as well as some data links to work in duos wit the embraers, as well as having a dozen more f´5 would let us ina pretty good state of affairs.

Storm: The a10 is an aircraft way to specialized, we don´t need a tank buster wich can rovide close support is way to much a hammer to crack an ant. But SU-25 for instance would be a great option, since it´s roll is more oriented to the support and attack role rather than the tank busting.
Mexican Army does not face tank busting, and doesn´t have to.

I mentioned my suggestion to copy Brasil to a friend from Apatzingan (actually Paracuaro), and i think that i lost him at around 3:55:03PM this afternoon. He is a big M*F*.

After his hard laughter, when annoyance set in after seeing my cachacienta face - you guys are so f*cked up kind of face - he started chasing me. I'm glad he is fat and slow. Otheeeerwise ...

Just Kidding ....


Do as you please, but Modern Capable Armed Forces are a source of Pride and also a source for JOBS and CAREERS.


Knock, knock .... shiiiiiit he is back

Bye Bye,

[jklv]

Amen to that!
I have no idea why they would move it bro, but sometimes they move them around. If you leave something in place too long, the bad guys figure ways of going around it. In general I get the impression that the narcs have sort of toned it down, but as I said, in general. There can always be exceptions and flare-ups.

Yeah, I live here in Tijuana and hope the military "retenes" (don't know the word in english) come back . As for now I've seen a lot of times Policia Federal de Caminos I think(The ones with green and kakhi uniforms, and beautidul dodge charges ) stopping narcotype cars (brand new Ford Lobos, Cadillacs Escalade, etc. Fancy cars you get the idea) and search them allover. And is truth as you said narcocrimes (murders, kidnaps, etc.) have lowered. Hope with the new goverment things get fixed. I blame Hank for f****** up Tijuana, I feel very sad when friends of mine listen to Narcocorridos and acually feel proud. Young guys (16 and up) believe themselves narcos and feel proud of it, most of them are from rich familys non related to crime but thes kids get manipulated and without the need begin selling drugs, not actually selling but moving from place to place. Most of them end up behind bars. Theres when they realize thay the people or friends that they called "Alto nivel, chacas, etc" are not their real frieds. What really pisses me off is their "prepotencia" (don't know this word in english) they act if there was nothing that could stop them from doinf illegal things, treating othere people like crap, etc.
This is no invention of mine, I knew somebody like that he's son of a Delegado. He used to be my friend but after I knew all what he did and felt proud of doing those things, I felt bad for him. And when I expressed what I thought about it our friendship dissapeared.

[Felix U. Gómez]

[quote=gatomalo;2729709]

Although I wont disagree with you that the T-33 was a very ineffective option for FAM, I wouldnt necessarily discount the F-5 entirely. There are several companies, including IAI, that offer some superb upgrades for these birds. That might be a more viable option than buying 40 of anything that is current generation. Even the Gripen, which I believe is the cheapest of the ones you mentioned, cost about $45-50 million per unit plus spares, armament and training.

We all now that SEDENA is never going to let either tha FAM or Navy spend the amount of money necessary to get the frontline fighters that we would all like to see them have. Based on that, I think that some A-10 and F-5 purchases and upgrades would be a great option. With cockpit(HOTAS controls), avionics(MFD's and PFD's incorporated to work with HOTAS), upgraded engines, radar(APG-65 or something similar maybe?) and weapons(ASRAAM and maybe AMRAAM) upgrades, the F-5 working in conjuction with airborne battle management systems would make a great little fighter. Dont forget that the USAF, USN and USMC all think highly enough of the Tiger to use it as their preferred adversary aircraft in DACT roles. It cant be too bad of a fighter I would think...

Hey, if Aeromexico and Mexicanan can cough up the cash to upgrade their fleets to the latest boeings and airbuses, then I certainly think that the government can cough up the resources to give Mexico a respectable modern multi-role combat aircraft.
You are proposing to modernize an aircraft whose design is more than four decades old. What for, so it can serve for sixty years? I know we hold the record for keeping old stuff running, like the vochos, but that is ridiculous. We might as well upgrade the T-33's while we're at it.
The only reason why the USAF, USN, and USMC use the Tiger to simulate an adversary is because its maneuverability and size resemble that of the Mig-21. But, in reality you know that these days 49 times out 50 you will eliminate your enemy way before you even get to see him. Maneuverability is highly over-rated when you can shoot someone down before you even know he's there.

[GAFES]

Yeah, I live here in Tijuana and hope the military "retenes" (don't know the word in english) come back . As for now I've seen a lot of times Policia Federal de Caminos I think(The ones with green and kakhi uniforms, and beautidul dodge charges ) stopping narcotype cars (brand new Ford Lobos, Cadillacs Escalade, etc. Fancy cars you get the idea) and search them allover. And is truth as you said narcocrimes (murders, kidnaps, etc.) have lowered. Hope with the new goverment things get fixed. I blame Hank for f****** up Tijuana, I feel very sad when friends of mine listen to Narcocorridos and acually feel proud. Young guys (16 and up) believe themselves narcos and feel proud of it, most of them are from rich familys non related to crime but thes kids get manipulated and without the need begin selling drugs, not actually selling but moving from place to place. Most of them end up behind bars. Theres when they realize thay the people or friends that they called "Alto nivel, chacas, etc" are not their real frieds. What really pisses me off is their "prepotencia" (don't know this word in english) they act if there was nothing that could stop them from doinf illegal things, treating othere people like crap, etc.
This is no invention of mine, I knew somebody like that he's son of a Delegado. He used to be my friend but after I knew all what he did and felt proud of doing those things, I felt bad for him. And when I expressed what I thought about it our friendship dissapeared.

That place sounds like Culiacan, Sinaloa.

[Shadowstorm]

[quote=Felix U. Gómez;2731309]

Hey, if Aeromexico and Mexicanan can cough up the cash to upgrade their fleets to the latest boeings and airbuses, then I certainly think that the government can cough up the resources to give Mexico a respectable modern multi-role combat aircraft.
You are proposing to modernize an aircraft whose design is more than four decades old. What for, so it can serve for sixty years? I know we hold the record for keeping old stuff running, like the vochos, but that is ridiculous. We might as well upgrade the T-33's while we're at it.
The only reason why the USAF, USN, and USMC use the Tiger to simulate an adversary is because its maneuverability and size resemble that of the Mig-21. But, in reality you know that these days 49 times out 50 you will eliminate your enemy way before you even get to see him. Maneuverability is highly over-rated when you can shoot someone down before you even know he's there.

I agree with their. I can't believe the airlines are getting newer and better aircraft than the air force, that's sad.

[jackehammond]

M40 106mm recoiless guns.

Dear Members,

If the Mexican Army still has a large number of M40 106mm recoiless rifles in service, it should contact Bofors Defense (or the new firm that combined Bofors and FFV). They have a very cost effective upgrade for the M40 106mm that combines a new dual-purpose round with a laser sight that give three times the range and the ability to engage modern tanks with reactive armor tiles.

Jack E. Hammond

[jackehammond]

No mamen!!! I won't say that they weren't nice looking aircraft, especially in FAM colors, but in 1961 when they entered FAM service those things were already obsolete. I sincerely doubt that it could have taken out even an Me-262. Having those in inventory would be the equivalent of the army using Renault FT-17 tanks. Those things should have been in a museum in the 1970's. I understand (not really) your sentimentalism regarding those planes Wolfpack, but sentimentalism isn't enough to cover the defense requirements of the republic. What the country needs is to have at least 40 aircraft like the Saab Grippen, Eurofighter, Rafale, or even maybe a J-10 (pending evaluation of its capabilities). I think that 40 is quite a modest number that will keep our neighbors from wetting their panties. The F-5's are very ineffective and outdated fighters, comparable to stuff from the 70's maybe.

P.S. Why are the T-33's very important in our history? What did they do?

Dear Members,

Mexico need modern fighters for only one reason (unless it wants to massively increase its defense budget) and that is "sovereignty patrol" -- ie preventing other countries, groups or persons from using its air space without its permission. It also needs to have some kind of modern aircraft to keep pilots trained in case a crisis or emergency comes up and it purchases modern jet fighters and strike aircraft in numbers (it takes a lot longer to train pilots than it does to acquire the aircraft).

A good solution for the Mexican Air Force would be the Czech Republic AERO L-159A/B Advance Light Combat Aircraft. It is a true multi-role aircraft which is cost effective to operate. The L-159 family is a highly upgrades version of the reliable L-39 advance trainer. The L-159A is the single seater version and the L-159B is the two seater version. Both are combat capable. The 159 aircraft are fitted with US nav/attack comparable to the early F-16s and use a highly efficient engine that gives it an extremely good payload-to-range. Today, the Czech Republic has 52 in storage with almost zero hours on them that the Mexican government could probably make a good deal for. Reports state that per unit cost is approximately $8 million dollars which in today's combat aircraft market is a bargain.

Jack E. Hammond


PS> Before anyone ask: The Czech government ordered them and produced them to keep the Aero firm operating and to give them experience in producing aircraft with NATO equipment. They were never intended to be operational for any long period of time.

[gatomalo]

[quote=Felix U. Gómez;2731309]

Hey, if Aeromexico and Mexicanan can cough up the cash to upgrade their fleets to the latest boeings and airbuses, then I certainly think that the government can cough up the resources to give Mexico a respectable modern multi-role combat aircraft.
You are proposing to modernize an aircraft whose design is more than four decades old. What for, so it can serve for sixty years? I know we hold the record for keeping old stuff running, like the vochos, but that is ridiculous. We might as well upgrade the T-33's while we're at it.
The only reason why the USAF, USN, and USMC use the Tiger to simulate an adversary is because its maneuverability and size resemble that of the Mig-21. But, in reality you know that these days 49 times out 50 you will eliminate your enemy way before you even get to see him. Maneuverability is highly over-rated when you can shoot someone down before you even know he's there.

I hardly think that it is an apples to apples comparison between Aeromexico and the Mexican governement. Two totally different beast accomplishing two totally different tasks. But we will go with it if it makes you feel better. Of Aeromexico's fleet only 8 aircraft are for long international flights, i.e. DF to London. True they have 5 more on order that will enter service in 2010 or so. Thats out of 75 in service aircraft. They currently have 15 aircraft orders placed with Boeing, two thirds of which are 737-700 short trip aircraft. Why do you think they chose that mix? Because they understand their equipment requirements, thats why. Ok, so what about Mexicana you say? They currently have a 61 strong fleet of Airbus aircraft and two long haul Boeing 767-300ER. They currently have 1 aircraft on order, another 767. As they have updated their fleet over the past 5 years, everything that they purchased was for their short haul routes except the 767's they got in 2006 I believe. The point Im trying to make is that you buy what is going to meet your needs. The F-5 might be a 4 decade old design, but it can hold its own and for the current and forseeable potential threats of Mexico, it can be made a capable ADF aircraft.

Oh, and if you were right about maneuvarability being over rated, the agility that is touted about every current generation fighter aircraft would all be for nothing I guess. We should notify the Russians and the USAF that thrust vectoring technology was a big waste of money and that super agility is pointless .The reality of air combat is that unless you have a full blown WWIII, your BVR capability is almost useless. Most airforces today understand that positive identification of an adversary is paramount before you start flinging a bunch of AIM-120's around the sky. That requires a visual identification of your foe and at that point your WVR. Look at the Tomcat for example. Absolutley one of the best fighters in the world, as an interceptor it has no equal and in the right hands it can turn and burn with the best of them, especially the D model. During the Cold War when the Soviets were more capable and active, a typical combat load for it was 4 AIM-54 Phoenix missiles, 2 AIM-7 Sparrows and 2 AIM-9 Sidewinders. But as the Cold War wound down, it quit carrying the Phoenix all together and went with more medium range weaponry. Because the million dollar Phoenix was usually useless for the combat scenerios that Tomcat crews were encountering. Kinda like sending a Gripen to shoot down a narco Cessna 206...

[Wolfpack]

"Maneuverability is highly over-rated when you can shoot someone down before you even know he's there"

I´m sorry, but youre horribly wrong, you think like people did 40 years back, and were proben to be wrong tears later, you´ve ignored like 35 years of air fighting history and actual combat training and exercises in the major air forces.

I´m not gonna lecture, cause youre so soberb not to take it as a help, but read some aviation history on the matter, try: f.4, Mc namara boys, Randal cuningham, vietnam air war, etc you´ll find out were you missed the track.
cheers.

Its the same chat again, Mexico could buya lot, in modern and what you call repsectable who knows what that means, but that is not the point. The main issue is that you get what you can maintain and need. You got it crossover, perhaps, you think the airforce is not respectable, well your opinion, but you don´t belong there, being a mexican military pilot is not something you are and judge as pridefull or not pridefull, that is just your own subjective apreciation.

Mexican airforce, and naval aviation have to deal with the missions thay have at hand and deal, that is why for them 16 pc-9´s are usefull and the tools they need, if some else thinks other, well cool, pride, and the thought that you are gonna earn respect from other nations by having so called modern aircraft its a perosnal matter , not a logical, political or estrategical reason.

Respect is something very diferent, respect si something you earn by who you are and do, not on what you have. FAM pilots are respected by its counter parts werever they go, not because they flya pilatus while the other guy flies an f-15, that only shows inferiority complexs by whoeverthinks so. They are respected as profesional aviators, who share the same dangers and profesion and because they have been excelent in the courses and tests they do at foreing airforces and daily job.

Gato malo, how many assets at mexicana and aeromexico are leased ?

There is no way in comparing a civil freight company a subsidiary of the governament wich by the way both are for sale in bankrupt, with the airforce, they don´t even do the same things, pardon, but its way out of line.