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Thread: "Chistilische" (Purgatory)-one of the most cruel war films ever made

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    I think I know everything, but I don't lightfire's Avatar
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    Default "Chistilische" (Purgatory)-one of the most cruel war films ever made

    Hope it's not a repost, tried to use search, no results found.

    [SIZE="5"]"Chistilische"(Чистилище)-Purgatory.[/SIZE]
    1997. Film by known and contraversial russian filmaker/former chekist(?)/propogandist/member of Duma/producer Aleksandr Nevzorov.

    A cruel War film about first Chechen war, more preciselly about late 1994 early 1995 russian offensive, storming Grozny. Russian soldiers are traped in the citty and fight for their survival in blood, mud under the hail of bullets and explosions. Those, who survive are supposed to have experience of hell, purgatory and all horros imaginable.



    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0846774/

    to watch a small piece, cilck preview:
    http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=33656
    alternativelly, you can click in this webpage:
    http://www.ru-video.com/xanario_pinf...oducts_id=383#

    some photos:
















    More thoughts about the film:
    First, as it has been mentioned, it's a very cruel film. From technical side it is one of the most realistic ever made. The "special efects" aren't computer generated-they are real.Real explosions used, real ammo, real guns, propbably real soldiers involved in making of this movie.

    One could even ask, if there were any real casualties suffered making this film. Sometimes this reality is somewhat a weakness, for the sound of bullets hitting the material, or few explosions are quite old fashioned, and watching all this you would wait for the wilhelm scream.

    Nevertheless sceenes are breathtaking-soldiers with their legs, arms or even heads being cut off, bodies being crushed by a tank (that is shown). Often feels like you are watching uncensored documentary or some islamist propoganda video, where cruelty is and advantage and important part to show, scare, digust.

    Ussually that's even too much (after a while you get used to the horours shown in the film and wait for smth more, smth else, but all you get is more blood and cruelty in the screan)-unrealistic emotions, characters, or acts, like sending the cut-off heads of russian soldiers with an RPG round to russian possitions. Like orcs in LOTR ROTK... A maner to overdo things, to add more colours- I donno if that is necessary to be shown in the film.

    Of cource, you can't forget, that the author of this film is A. Nevzorov, and that may tell you a lot. Some might remember, what bul**it he made about Vilnius massacare in 1991 in his film "Nashy". His films are often full of somewhat unnecessary nationalism and ultrapatriotism, best of all- a distinction between THEM and US. Soviet/russian dudes are always poor guys, heroes-the good and bright side, despite any acts they commit, everything is justified, THEM can be anyone, who you'd identify as an enemy. It is clearly represented in this film. Remember, this is first Chehen war, the invasion of 1994, when Yeltsin send tanks and unprepared troops, they attack Grozny and suffer heavy cassualties.

    Yet, despite mentioning (in the moths of the soldiers and Nagijevs character-chechen commander), that "all politics are bastards, traitors etc", the enemy in this film is strongly demonised. The utter cruelty, all enemies are ussing is shown to emphasize-that's what we are fighting with (remember, the film was made in 1997). They are animals, they cut off the heads of our soldiers, torture them, pee on their dead bodies, shoot them as helpless sheeps. I donno how many foreign mercenaries there were in Chechnya in 1994, esspecially in the Grozny storming, but the black guys looks really odd, more like hiphopmazafaka from Bronks, rather terorist mercenaries.

    The art of propogandist consist in mixing some truth with lies or creating myths. In this film there's one urban myth-"belaji kalgotki"/snaipershy iz Pribaltiky"-white panthysoses/ female snipers from baltic countries, particularry from national biatlon teams. They speak poor lithuanian and with cold blood and cruelty snipe poor russian soldiers to their *******s. They laugh as if it was duck hunting. The interesting thing is, that many people believe in this pure shyte of insanity as of a true fact.

    The interest lies in random moments of the film, qoutes, both by soldiers and chechen rebels. And many true. For example, that the storming of Grozny was unprepared, badlly planed, and russian tanks with soldiers got into the deadly trap on the streets and buildings of Grozny. Using sometimes poor tactics, unexperienxed 18 year old soldiers and inadequate equipment they have met their doom.

    Chechens, on the other hand, use and are proud of it-new equipment, some of it bought or acquired from the same russian soldiers, ussually sophisticated, superior to russian, and this turn into blody mess for the russian soldiers-they try to find out their location, call support, and the chechens can hear them, misslead them, send them to the trap or even call own russian artilery fire on russian soldiers.

    A clear distiction between THEM and US is seen in the film, however, willing or unwilling, it starts to melt, cause they all turn to animals, fighting for survival. Chechen leader explains his russian counterpart-colonel who nastlly wounded into the eye-always has to put the remants of it into the eye-socket-on the radio: "we here figh for our land, our air, our hospital (where the battle rages on), what do you fight for?" and as ussually, the answer is simple-russian soldiers do their dutty-they don't like that, they curse Grachev (defence minister), but they figh for each other, for survival and they can't stop, cause they know, what would happen, if they stop-chechens will literally cut them to pieces.

    One of the final moments in the film emphasizes even more the dectiction between black and white. The good russian tankist in his T-80 tank (which is real) refuses to surrender and sacrifies himself, taking with him as many enemies as he can. For that, he loses his arms and legs and is...crucified..That's what I mean "Too much". Anger by this act all alive, wounded, all that can hold a gun-russian dudes charge and wipe out chechen "atackers". Russian forces includes Spetznaz GRU.

    In overal it's bloodmudwar film.Apart quite monotonus, pompous music,flaws in sound and not the best operator/camera work (looks like real documentary most of the time, but sometimes it just doesn't fit, sometimes you don't see smth, that could be seen or should be in such film) it's on the top.
    To compare..well, if you'd put most horrific scenes from FMJ, Platoon, Blackhawck down, Passion of the Christ into one you might get the picture with some reservations. The films Has some flaws in the script and idea, but some qoutes, thoughts, and most of visual scenes makes it a must see for those who dare..

    p.s.

    oh deary me, hope this's not too gigantic..

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    Member Bandeirante's Avatar
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    It seems an average conflict. War is hell and it's always the same.

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    saw this film a couple years ago, indeed it is graphic, but apparently it shows the reality of war much closer than other movies, I'd recommned it

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    there are some nice things with this movie but generally its quite crappy and ridiculous, especially the acting. The scenery is nice thou...

    A really nice chechnya moviewould be Balabanovs Voina! Still one of my favourite movies, high quality.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309047/

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    Quote Originally Posted by khukuri View Post

    A really nice chechnya moviewould be Balabanovs Voina! Still one of my favourite movies, high quality.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309047/
    IMO wouldn't say so.. there's no real war there to be frank. Only russian rembo-revenge style affair, with the message to viewers-all chechens are evil murderers and don't need help from Europe. "Machit ich vsech v sortire"- some sort of subtext.. Blokes from Europe don't get anything, they need help themselves, luckilly, there's russian rembo to sort it out, but gets a nasty "reward".. but that's IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfire View Post
    I would love to punch you in the face for the BS that you wrote in your post, too bad...

    The things that you twist, dismiss and call "urban-myths" and propaganda did happen in real life.

    The movie was based on the real life events:fighting for the city hospital. It was shot in dagestan, not that far from the actual scene of events with a little more than hand held camcoders.

    Yes there were plenty of mercenaries: blacks, chineese, englishman, arabs, ukranians, russians, belorussians and yes, the "ladies" from your homeland - baltic snipers...

    "the enemy in this film is strongly demonised. The utter cruelty, all enemies are ussing is shown to emphasize-that's what we are fighting with (remember, the film was made in 1997). They are animals, they cut off the heads of our soldiers, torture them, pee on their dead bodies,"
    Demonised ?! Child, things shown in this movie do not represent even 1/10 of what "allah warriors" were doing with the captured. There was the reason for the "tank scene", but don't take my word for it - "glorious allah warriors" produced more than one videotape of decapitating "infidels".

    "Poor accents" - sorry, Nevzorov couldn't get any real black and baltic mercenaries, the actual ones were dead already so he had to use african students


    The real life "Gyurza" from the movie


    Алексей Ефентьев, radio call sign "Voron" (the unit he commanded was based out of Voronezh)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KMS View Post
    I would love to punch you in the face
    ..nothing much more to expect from someone like you, go back to your ward..

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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfire View Post
    .
    I read enough of your nazi BS on this board to justify my feelings towards you but this "review" was just too much to take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sir-chimp View Post
    I have my assumptions on what the point of the actions in that scene was - but can some one clarify?

    To prevent from some kind of a psychological war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sir-chimp View Post
    I have my assumptions on what the point of the actions in that scene was - but can some one clarify?
    To prevent the Chechens from using the dead Russians bodies as trophies and propaganda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roids View Post
    To prevent the Chechens from using the dead Russians bodies as trophies and propaganda.
    To be more precise, qouteing colonel, to prevent chechens to cut russian soldiers in pieces. Literally.

    I read enough of your nazi BS on this board to justify my feelings towards you but this "review" was just too much to take
    being ultrapatriot can make you more nazi, than you imagine some people are, if you have nothing more to say, then don't read, don't post and troll elswhere, please.
    Last edited by lightfire; 01-06-2007 at 07:46 PM.

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    Senior Member Kvakva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir-chimp View Post
    I have my assumptions on what the point of the actions in that scene was - but can some one clarify?
    If you are talking about the tank scene - colonel ordered it so that than the hospital would fall, checens would not cut of heads and *****es and throw them to russians that are still alive. In short - that enemy would not do anything to the dead.

    Anger by this act all alive, wounded, all that can hold a gun-russian dudes charge and wipe out chechen "atackers". Russian forces includes Spetznaz GRU.
    Ekhem actually no. They attacked because GRU operatives were inside and the tank took out most of checen gun emplacements. If you watched the film you should know this. Giurza talks with colonel just before the attack.

    I will not comments on your whole rewiev. I do not agree on many things you wrote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kvakva View Post

    Ekhem actually no. They attacked because GRU operatives were inside and the tank took out most of checen gun emplacements. If you watched the film you should know this. Giurza talks with colonel just before the attack.

    I will not comments on your whole rewiev. I do not agree on many things you wrote.
    erm, yea, probably you are right, anyway that happened just at that time.
    I wouldn't be surprissed, you don't agree,fair'nough, your choise to comment or not, only if you decide to do it, please, no flaming,more arguments, aciu. Besides, that was my point of view after watching the film, and having oppinion about the author I've seen more than expected. Yet I don't want a film thread turn to another chechen conflict thread-there'd be no new achievements in this.

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    Senior Member Kvakva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfire View Post
    erm, yea, probably you are right, anyway that happened just at that time.
    Well you can trace it from the point where Cobra talks to tank commander and says - сейчас чичи нас сдавять на ... - they make a plan to attack checens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfire View Post
    The art of propogandist consist in mixing some truth with lies or creating myths. In this film there's one urban myth-"belaji kalgotki"/snaipershy iz Pribaltiky"-white panthysoses/ female snipers from baltic countries, particularry from national biatlon teams. They speak poor lithuanian and with cold blood and cruelty snipe poor russian soldiers to their *******s. They laugh as if it was duck hunting. The interesting thing is, that many people believe in this pure shyte of insanity as of a true fact.
    There was at least one dead Latvian girl with a sniper rifle found in Grozny. I have heard this on two different occasions from two different people who were there. As for the rest, well there were Latvian girls declaring their wishes to go help Chechens fight for independence on TV. Did they go or not? Did they wear white *****hose? I don't know.

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