Reply With QuoteYou mean raping everything alive from Sicily till Rome? They were even worst than russians. I have even heard that some of the U.S. troops wanted to shoot their North African comrades even more than enemy germans.Originally Posted by Crassus
True ! The 2nd French Armored Division had a lot of Spaniards among its soldiers. Under French uniform, true, but of Spanish nationality.
You mean raping everything alive from Sicily till Rome? They were even worst than russians. I have even heard that some of the U.S. troops wanted to shoot their North African comrades even more than enemy germans.
One of the most inaccurate films ever to be made. The proportion of casualties among European French troops, both officers and squaddies, was higher than that of the indigènes.
Care to elaborate and document ? It's always nice to back up innuendo with facts.
Just one episode.
http://members.iinet.com.au/~gduncan/massacres_axis.html#ItalyMonte Cassino fell to the Allies on May 18, 1944. After a four month struggle and the abbey bombed into ruins by the US Air Force, Polish troops of the 12th Lancers, 3rd Carpathian Division, raised their regimental flag over the ruins of the 6th century Benedictine Monastery situated high in the Apennines of central Italy. The next night thousands of French Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian and Senegalese troops, attached to the French Expeditionary Corps, swarmed over the slopes of the hills surrounding Monte Cassino and in the villages of Ciociaria and Esperia, which is in the region of Lazio, raped every woman and girl that came within their sight. Over 2,000 women, ranging in age from 11 years to 86 years suffered at the hands of these gang-raping soldiers as village after village was entered. Menfolk who tried to protect their wives and daughters were murdered without mercy, around 800 of them died. Two sisters aged 15 and 18 were raped by dozens of soldiers each. One died from the abuse, the other was still in a mental hospital in 1997, 53 years after the event. Most of the dwellings in the villages were destroyed and everything of value was stolen. Later in the war, these same troops raped around 500 women in the Black Forrest town of Freudenstadt, on April 17, 1945, after its capture. In Stuttgart, colonial French troops, mostly African, but under the command of General Eisenhower, rounded up around 2,000 women and herded them into the underground subways to be raped. In one week more women were raped in Stuttgart than in the whole of France during the four year German occupation.
In fact, after the french colonial troops flanked Monte-Cassino at the Garigliano general Juin (chief of french Expeditionnary Force) authorized officially ''50 hours of rape of europeans women'' to his moroccan,algerians,tunisians and senegalese soldiers...
People have not yet forgotten what then happened in some towns of the Frosinate region. All the women who did not have time to take shelter in the mountains were, as they say, `moroccanated' there is no consideration for the age of the women; every woman, from ten to seventy, was raped. (A brief parenthesis on the colonial problem is worthwhile. About that same time, General Juin commander of the French armed forces in Italy, was received by the Pope. The Pope complained to him about the immunity granted to the soldiers responsible for the brutalities. The general informed him that North African soldiers could not be punished since the war code of the French army granted to these troops, in enemy territory, the right to rape and plunder.)"
Apparently the Morrocan propensity to rape was generally accepted as fact. General George F. Patton, Jr., *War as I Knew It*, wrote (p. 71): "One funny thing happened in connection with the Moroccan troops,. A Sicilian came to me and said he had a complaint to make about the conduct of the Moroccans, or Goums, as they are called. He said he well knew that all Goums were thieves, also that they were murderers, and sometimes indulged in rape--these things he could understand and make allowances for, but when they came to his home, killed his rabbits, and then skinned them in the parlor, it was going too far."
It is very hard to get history of rape from secondary sources. Three factors make it difficult: 1) the production of atrocity stories for propaganda purposes; 2) the shame felt by the victims and their families who seek to keep the facts secret; and 3) the unwillingness of historians to look at the subject. As the quotation from Patton illustrates, rape is considered a trivial and rather funny sidelight in the history of war.
Last edited by koko; 02-13-2007 at 02:46 PM.
I believe you are correct. From what I've read over the years, plus what I've been hearing lately, this film is full of inaccuracies and has even been denounced by several veterans associations as being completely and unfairly biased for the sake of making a general if minor point.
I will still view it to see for myself, though I don't think it's been released in the US.
As for civilian casualties by arab/african troops, another interesting read is "Army At Dawn" by Rick Atkinson, in which it is described how US soldiers used locals in North Africa as target practice. There were crimes and violations commited by all sides. If they were all to be tried, trials for WW 2 crimes would still be taking place.
[QUOTE=koko;2305324]Just one episode.
http://members.iinet.com.au/~gduncan/massacres_axis.html#Italy
Duncan is also remarkably short on historical sources here.
Source ?In fact, after the french colonial troops flanked Monte-Cassino at the Garigliano general Juin (chief of french Expeditionnary Force) authorized officially ''50 hours of rape of europeans women'' to his moroccan,algerians,tunisians and senegalese soldiers...
Source ?People have not yet forgotten what then happened in some towns of the Frosinate region. All the women who did not have time to take shelter in the mountains were, as they say, `moroccanated' there is no consideration for the age of the women; every woman, from ten to seventy, was raped. (A brief parenthesis on the colonial problem is worthwhile. About that same time, General Juin commander of the French armed forces in Italy, was received by the Pope. The Pope complained to him about the immunity granted to the soldiers responsible for the brutalities. The general informed him that North African soldiers could not be punished since the war code of the French army granted to these troops, in enemy territory, the right to rape and plunder.)"
X2 well done
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