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Thread: A Parallel Muslim Universe

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    Senior Member JoaMei's Avatar
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    Default A Parallel Muslim Universe

    RELGIOUS DIVISIONS WITHIN GERMANY

    A Parallel Muslim Universe

    By Andrea Brandt and Cordula Meyer
    Germany's Muslim population is becoming more religious and more conservative. Islamic associations are fostering the trend, particularly through their work with the young -- accelerating the drift towards a parallel Muslim society.


    A member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community in Berlin.

    It's the silence that visitors notice first. No children's laughter, no chatter, no pop music. A Protestant minister familiar with the noise level in children's homes describes the atmosphere as "very spooky." This Friday, at the end of Ramadan, it is especially hushed in the green house on Hochfeldstrasse in Duisburg, a city near Düsseldorf. Quietly, the boys remove their jackets from the cloakroom's numbered hooks - many are heading home for the holiday. The blankets are meticulously folded in the dormitories. Toys and posters are nowhere to be seen.
    Run by the Association of Islamic Cultural Centers, known by its German acronym VIKZ, the home houses 38 Muslim adolescents between the ages of 12 and 19. They attend state schools in the morning, but otherwise live and learn in the green house. They get help with their homework between 3 and 6 in the afternoon and eat supper at 7. The rest of the day, according to the timetable, they are free to do what they want. Their parents contribute 150 euros a month; the rest is financed by donations.

    The residents are not typical of children raised in institutional settings who often come from dysfunctional backgrounds. Most of these boarders are growing up in intact family units. Officially they are here first and foremost to improve their performance at school. "The VIKZ homes improve their educational prospects," says the organization's legal counsel, Ersoy Sam, "and hence their prospects of leading successful lives in Germany."

    Nonetheless, German academics and youth experts have warned that this type of group is widening the gulf between Muslims and the rest of society.

    Significant increase in fundamentalism

    Surveys in the country have charted a significant increase in fundamentalist attitudes, particularly among younger Muslims. The experiences of Ekin Deligöz, a member of the German parliament representing the Green Party, underscore the potential dangers. Having called on Muslim women to remove their headscarves, Deligöz faced death threats and now receives police protection.

    Disturbing as this trend may be, it cannot be pinned exclusively on Muslim groups. Under the guise of religious tolerance, German society stood blithely by as some parts of its Muslim communities began turning into parallel societies. For years, the country's courts have been excusing Muslim girls from coed swimming lessons and class outings - citing the most absurd reasons for their rulings.
    However, the example of the VIKZ highlights the difficulties of penetrating the wall of silence that surrounds these Islamic institutions. The VIKZ has a lot of clout among Muslims in Germany. Some 300 mosque communities count themselves as members. It is the third-largest Muslim organization in the country, representing more people than the Central Council of Muslims. In public, the association's officials are eminently friendly and impeccably dressed, often in stylish pinstriped suits. "Only German-speaking teachers are employed in the group's homes," emphasizes Sam. The majority are of German stock, he claims, adding that the homes "are keyed to encouraging intercultural skills and success at school, not religious education."

    The Duisburg home is viewed as the association's showpiece. In addition to a theologian and teacher of Turkish origin, its payroll includes one German, Holger Kellner, who was assigned by the employment office; a second German is now being sought. Meetings with non-Muslim children are being arranged, starting with occasional weekend soccer tournaments against teams from the local Social Democratic Party's youth division. Officials at VIKZ argue that this involves more contact with Germans than when the pupils lived with their families.

    Yet skepticism is justified. Employing German-speaking teachers is a statutory requirement. And, in practice, pupils often have no time for leisure activities with their non-Muslim peers. One 17-year-old high school student explains that he used to train at a local sports club, but since taking up residence two years ago, sports no longer fit into his daily schedule. Now his friends are "almost all Turkish."

    "Enormous pleasure"

    When the issue of free time is mentioned, the responses of the association's legal counsel tend to be woolly: "Consistent progress has been made toward fostering contacts with members of other youth organizations."

    Critics, such as Reverend Rafael Nikodemus, the Islamic Delegate of the Protestant churches in the Duisburg district, set little store in VIKZ's professed open-mindedness. Getting the representatives of VIKZ to work with local clubs and churches took "enormous pressure," says Nikodemus.

    University of Marburg professor and VIKZ expert Ursula Spuler-Stegemann is even more outspoken. The Islam expert was commissioned to review the association's institutions by the region's social services authority. "I failed to find a single home where there were no major misrepresentations," she concluded.
    That is "definitely untrue," Sam retorts. While there might have been errors "now and then" - in clear contravention of instructions from the VIKZ executive - "there has certainly been no deception of the authorities or deliberate breaches of the law."

    But in her 2004 report, Spuler-Stegemann presents detailed proof of her allegations. Despite assertions to the contrary, the homes were "almost exclusively devoted to Islamic teaching and practice of the faith," she wrote. They were "an unequivocal obstacle to integration." The pupils were "indoctrinated" into a "rigidly sharia-oriented" form of Islam and "immunized" against Christianity, the West and the German constitution. She described VIKZ as an elitist organization within Islam that made sure its pupils were trained to accept strict obedience and an even stricter segregation of the sexes.

    VIKZ refutes these censures as "factually incorrect" and "biased." They represent a "blanket condemnation," says Sam, adding that his association had never been subject to surveillance by Germany's security agencies.

    Observing the situation for years

    Yet the regional government was so alarmed by the concerns that it halted approvals of new VIKZ homes. "The VIKZ officials are full of promises but end up doing whatever they want," says Hanspeter Pohl, who is responsible for children's and adolescents' homes in Hesse's social services department. Religious instruction took place "on a much larger scale" than was admitted, and children were regularly woken up in the middle of the night for prayers, he said.

    Criticisms that the VIKZ is keen to challenge: "Prayer is voluntary; no child is ever coerced to join in." A junior-high school teacher from North Rhine-Westphalia, whose school is in the catchment area of an unofficial VIKZ home, has been observing the situation for years. She witnessed how the pupils suddenly adopted "extremely anti-Semitic and anti-American attitudes." English was seen as the enemy's language. "Today, some of them refuse to speak it at all, even if it means failing their exams." They reject the theory of evolution in biology lessons, the age of the Earth as discussed in geography, and anything remotely satirical in their German classes, she said.

    The teacher made a further observation. When the boys in the home "had been reciting the Koran until 11 o'clock at night, as they did regularly," they were so sleep-deprived the next day that they simply dozed off during class. Sam rejects these complaints as well: "That is alien to the VIKZ's work, and the very opposite of its teaching practices." In some VIKZ homes, he claims, you can "even find books by the Jewish satirist Ephraim Kishon."


    German Interior Minister Wolfgang Schäuble held an Islam conference last September.

    However, evidence abounds that VIKZ is acting outside the law. In May, according to the Rhineland's youth services department, association members had opened a weekend and holiday camp - without obtaining permission. In Wuppertal, the authorities closed another home in 2004. According to Stefan Kühn, the director of the city's social services department, some 30 children, including many elementary school pupils, had been living next door to a mosque there - again without the requisite approval. Sam does not dispute these allegations, but maintains they were isolated cases resulting from "miscommunications and misunderstandings." "All of the associations show a keen interest in youth training. Any groups that can key into the young can secure their futures," says Herbert Müller, head of the Islamist Competency Group at Baden-Württemberg's office for national security. "The associations claim to be spearheading the integration of these adolescents into society but - in reality - they mean the various Muslim communities." Milli Goerues is just one example. The group, which the authorities have under surveillance, runs summer camps for some 30,000 Muslim youngsters, according to its own figures. And the Islamic Community of Germany - which is also considered an Islamist organization - devotes much of its work to young people, above all adolescents of Arab origin.
    Islam was stigmatized

    According to Faruk Süen, director of the Center for Turkish Studies, the boys and girls are increasingly defining themselves by reference to their faith. In his view, this is another consequence of 9/11. After the terror attacks, Islam was stigmatized by the world at large, he explains, sparking a counterreaction among Muslims. In 2000 Süen's center conducted a survey. The results showed that 8 percent of immigrants of Turkish extraction said they were "very religious." In 2005, the figure had climbed to 28 percent.

    The survey's findings on headscarves are also striking. While only 27 percent had thought Muslim women should cover their hair in 2000, the number had almost doubled to 47 percent five years later. A similar pattern emerged on the topics of dual-*** sports classes and participation in coeducational school trips. Rejected by 19 percent in 2000, by last year the proportion had risen to 30 percent.

    Women and young men are startlingly conservative: 59 percent of 18- to 30-yearolds favored Muslim women wearing headscarves, as did almost 62 percent of female respondents. Members of mosque associations took particularly orthodox positions, including - and above all - the VIKZ members.

    Ironically, German judges have often proved the staunchest supporters of Muslim parents. Time and again they have ruled the parents' religious freedom paramount - ignoring the rights of girls to join in normal school activities.

    In 1993, for example, a federal court found that physical education was not mandatory for a 13-year-old Turkish girl if the classes were not segregated by gender. Even then, the arguments submitted by Bremen's board of education testified to the exasperation they felt in their efforts to promote integration. The Bremen officials stated that they had already allowed girls to play sports with their heads covered. Allowing further, religious exceptions, they argued, might well jeopardize class trips, *** education classes, theater visits and other extracurricular activities. It was therefore crucial "to apply the existing regulations on school attendance... otherwise the teaching at schools with a high percentage of foreigners would disintegrate completely."

    Their words fell on deaf ears. Enforced participation represented an infringement of religious freedom, the judges decided; the school either had to offer single-*** classes or grant the female students a special dispensation, the Supreme Court ruled.

    Fear of losing her headscarf

    In the following years, the German courts stuck to their guns. In another regional case, the judges had to decide whether a class excursion was mandatory for a Muslim girl. In their ruling of 2002, they parroted the language of a fatwa issued two years previously. The former chairman of the Islamic Religious Community in Hesse had stipulated that a Muslim woman not accompanied by a mahram, a male blood relative, must not stray more than 50 miles from her home - because this is the distance a caravan of camels can travel in 24 hours.

    Camels are something of an anomaly on the German autobahn these days. Sympathetic judges nonetheless recommended sending the 15-year-old brother along as a mahram. Given her fear of losing her headscarf or violating other religious laws, the schoolgirl's condition, they argued, was comparable to that of a "partially mentally handicapped person." She therefore needed somebody to accompany her; otherwise, she should not be forced to take part in the trip, they reasoned.

    Today the impact of Islamist indoctrination is noticeable at almost all schools with a high proportion of Muslim pupils. Although a few courts have reevaluated their position in the meantime and ruled in favor of compulsory school attendance - as, for example, in Hamburg during 2005 - teachers are complaining that fewer and fewer Muslim pupils are taking part in swimming, sports in general, or school trips. In Hamburg, according to the teachers' association, this was true of almost half of Muslim girls in 2004.

    On the Muslim-Markt ("Muslim Market") website run by brothers Yavuz and Güerhan Özoguz, parents can download a form for exemption from swimming lessons and find links to key court rulings. In Berlin in 2001, the Islamic Federation, which is believed to be influenced by the Islamist group Milli Goerues, petitioned for the right to give religious instruction in its own institutions - and now teaches some 4,000 pupils. Marion Berning, principal of Berlin's Rixdorf Elementary School, was dismayed by the change in the children: "The girls hardly said a word and kept their eyes cast downward; the boys were rambunctious."

    Distracted pupils during Ramadan

    A teacher at Richard Elementary in the same district gave disturbing evidence last year to the school committee: German children "weren't really being tolerated," and "Christian" was often used as a term of contempt. The teachers were doing their best to set things straight during class "but, sadly, with very little success," she said.

    School is one of the few places where young Muslims come into contact with the non-Islamic environment. As a result, the teachers often see what is happening most clearly. Dietmar Pagel, principal of the Hector-Peterson High School in the Kreuzberg district of Berlin, actively seeks dialog with his students. But with increasing frequency, he and his colleagues feel they are banging their heads against a brick wall. "Lots of our adolescents have a fundamentalist outlook on life," he says. Many more girls are wearing headscarves, and almost all the Muslim students fasted during the major Islamic holidays, with catastrophic consequences for their performance at school. "The further we get into Ramadan, the more distracted the pupils become."

    He often feels let down by the politicians who discuss the problems of integration more passionately than ever, yet won't appoint the additional social workers and teachers he needs. But Pagel refuses to give up. After the caricatures of Mohammed were published, he attempted to debate the controversy with his pupils. But the discussion was hopelessly lopsided. The children contributed a few bits of factual information, the principal relates, but then "the room fell silent when it came to the moral dimension, so the teachers simply held forth on their own ideas."

    He cannot get through to his pupils any more, Pagel complains. "If I say that headscarves are worn less in Turkey than here, they simply counter: 'That's why we came to Germany, so that we can openly practice our religion.'" And sometimes they simply remind him that - as a non-Muslim - he would be better off keeping such views to himself.
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...467360,00.html

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    post removed: look at Ordie's post.
    Last edited by vinny_121_ND; 02-20-2007 at 10:44 PM.

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    When a minority immigrant community is restricted from being fully part of the society of thier adopted country, they may revert and over accentuate to the customs and norms of thier home country.

    Germany's policy of "blood citizenship" deters many "Germans" of Turkish background, sometimes two generations, full citizenship. The Turks have contributed to the post war economic revival of Germany and imporved its political stability. Regardless of the sacrifices of the German Turkish community, a Russian with an drop of "German Blood" can still get full citizenship.

    That is not fair.

    And its no wonder the "German" Turks feel alienated in thier own country.

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    Going Rogue seraosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordie View Post
    When a minority immigrant community is restricted from being fully part of the society of thier adopted country, they may revert and over accentuate to the customs and norms of thier home country.

    Germany's policy of "blood citizenship" deters many "Germans" of Turkish background, sometimes two generations, full citizenship. The Turks have contributed to the post war economic revival of Germany and imporved its political stability. Regardless of the sacrifices of the German Turkish community, a Russian with an drop of "German Blood" can still get full citizenship.

    That is not fair.

    And its no wonder the "German" Turks feel alienated in thier own country.
    Then please explain why the same thing is occuring in DK, US, OZ, and the UK, where full citizenship doesn't rely on "blood"?

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    Banned user Ergnkon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny_121_DDS View Post
    That's like full brainwashing. Why can't they threaten the Turkey government with violence if they can't practice their religion freely? Why threaten the German government? (this is in reference to the last paragraph)
    They do.

    People like the person below was protected by Germany even when they were terrorizing Turkey and had greater terror plans for the country. Suddenly, It all changed after 9/11



    Profile: The Caliph of Cologne

    Metin Kaplan has built up a following of 1,100 people across Germany

    The self-styled Caliph of Cologne, Metin Kaplan, heads the first organisation to be banned under new German anti-terror laws following 11 September

    His calls for the violent overthrow of the Turkish state and its replacement with an Islamic regime have made him a wanted man in Turkey


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1705886.stm
    Last edited by Ergnkon; 02-20-2007 at 11:20 PM.

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    thx ergnkon. Didn't know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordie View Post
    When a minority immigrant community is restricted from being fully part of the society of thier adopted country, they may revert and over accentuate to the customs and norms of thier home country.

    Germany's policy of "blood citizenship" deters many "Germans" of Turkish background, sometimes two generations, full citizenship. The Turks have contributed to the post war economic revival of Germany and imporved its political stability. Regardless of the sacrifices of the German Turkish community, a Russian with an drop of "German Blood" can still get full citizenship.

    That is not fair.

    And its no wonder the "German" Turks feel alienated in thier own country.
    Now that really really sucks. That policy is horrible. Immigrants come in and help their economy, and in return they get a cold shoulder. I understand now, there's no point in integrating when you'll be shot down even if you try.

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    Banned user Ergnkon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny_121_DDS View Post
    thx ergnkon. Didn't know that.
    No problem...but what's more important, thousends of this guy's followers are still protected in Germany as a "asylum seekers"

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    It's the silence that visitors notice first. No children's laughter, no chatter, no pop music. A Protestant minister familiar with the noise level in children's homes describes the atmosphere as "very spooky."
    Is that really a bad thing.

    Seriously, the amount of rifting between conservative Muslims and native Germans will have the propensity of escalating into a bad situation. These conditions will create fertile ground for ultra-nationalist groups such as neo-nazis to take root. The result won't be pretty.
    At the same time, if what Ordie says is true, there slightly justifiable reason for not integrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seraosha View Post
    Then please explain why the same thing is occuring in DK, US, OZ, and the UK, where full citizenship doesn't rely on "blood"?
    I cannot speak for other nations that have immigration to citizenship policies. In the United States, the Muslim communities are diverse and are not from a specific nation, ethnic group nor language group. Moreover, apart from Dearborn Michigan, Muslims in the US generally do not reside in defined neighborhoods or ghettos. Therefore many Muslims co-exist non-Muslims.

    Despite the events of 9/11 Muslims in the US have contributed towards the apprehension and arrest of extremist who wish harm on the US or Allied countries. And in return by in large, the US and its citizens have been respectful of Muslims.

    Overall the best weapon against the extremist is to follow the golden rule.

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    filthy Lucre EsoognomEhT's Avatar
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    OH NOES! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING!



    A Protestant minister familiar with the noise level in children's homes describes the atmosphere as "very spooky."
    Wtf is this bollocks?! I think thats possibly one of the worst pieces of journalism I've ever seen!!

    Despite the events of 9/11 Muslims in the US have contributed towards the apprehension and arrest of extremist who wish harm on the US or Allied countries.
    And er, why wouldn't they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMongoose View Post
    OH NOES! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING!
    Isn't that quoted from amazing race season 10? That was funny.

    Back on topic, in regards to IraGlacialis post, I think he's right in his last sentence.

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    it is especially hushed in the green house on Hochfeldstrasse in Duisburg, a
    Haha they should have checked in the house next to the green house. My Airsoft Team HQ ftw.

    I live here. I can say. It´s true. Not for all of them, but for enough to create friction.

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    This muslim bashing is starting to get a bit creepy itself actually.

    Reminds me a bit of the scare mongering the Nazis did against the Jews in their populations before the extermination programs.

    All the muslims in the spotlight seem to be the minority population in their host countries. I dont know but i dont like where this is heading.

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    Going Rogue seraosha's Avatar
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    Drawing parallels between the non-integration of Islamic immigrants and the treatment of the Jews in Nazi Germany is a stretch. The voluntary segregation I see here in the US is what alarms me. With the minority protection in place here, the various community centers, and the melting pot culture that the US has embraced means that any immigrant, from any background can move anywhere, and call it home.

    God bless America, I love that about my country...being a mutt of Irish, Chippewa, French and who knows what else I have never felt discriminated against. And the freedom to practice my faith, as I choose, is something that I value as well.

    And each and every legal (and some could argue illegal) immigrant has these same rights.

    So why do I see Muslim communities forming, where non-Muslims are harassed and not welcomed? Why are groups like CAIR supportive of sharia law being pushed? Why are the rights of assembly and free speech being attacked? Why are groups of Islamic clerics causing a ruckus on airplanes, then crying foul when they are asked to deplane?

    I hesitate to throw the term "fifth column" around, but just look at the riots in France. Who was rioting? Weren't the majority second generation west African immigrant Muslims? Don't they have full citizenship? Are they not allowed to move elsewhere?

    Please keep in mind that unless you take the time to read the Q'uran, the Sunnah and the various Hadiths, you are most likely making assumptions about a culture and a meme that you are equating to your own experience, which statistically is some kind of watered down western style Christianity, which has as much in common with Islam as a tricycle and an M1 Abrams.

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