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Thread: Falklands 30

  1. #736
    Member Fulix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaWhisky58 View Post
    One of the guys mentioned in the intro to the first part of the film - Sgt. Cisneros - was killed when his patrol was ambushed by the SAS between Mts. Kent and Challenger on the night of 8th-9th June '82. Interestingly, this patrol was not even from Cdo 601, but from Cdo 602.
    Well, i'm not an Argentine but manage to do research on the web in Spanish looking for the info you described, DW...

    Apparently, Sgt. Cisneros history is a good to go.

    Here's an account when in the preparation of an ambush to SAS group...

    "The flares were thinking about how to indicate the targets for the artillery. From his position they discerned the flashes of the mouths of the cannons. The fire did not last very much. They did not say anything. Again the silence. The intense cold was affecting them increasingly. Numbed, the aching hands for the contact with the frozen steel of the weapon.

    The British appeared like were looking for them, moving towards the zone of death of the ambush. They were the elite SAS.

    1st Lt. Vizoso remembers: "Their presence had been warned by the safety squad of the lieutenant Rivas that it was there and we of another side. Meanwhile they were giving the voice of alarm, they allowed to spend the British scouts composed by about 10 soldiers, which was indicating that it was a question of force of between 20 and 30 men. They entered through our right and we were almost in the left end, and for these things of the war, the red alert did not come to the support squad that we were integrating Cisnero and I ”.

    Suddenly, he felt tensed the back of Cisnero. It turned the head towards him, surprised. "It saw when it opened fire with Mag".

    In that ambush to a group of SAS commandos, Sgt. Mario "Perro" Cisnero died due the impact of a 66 mm rocket from a LAW, which hit directly in his breast and killed him instantaneously.

    The shell shock raised Vizoso in the air, which it fell down heavily on the rocks. When he reacted, he asked his partner:

    - What does happened to you, mate?

    The silence was the only response. He take Cisnero with his hands. He was dead, with the very open eyes. He wanted to take the machine gun, but the biggest piece was a part of the butt stock, other of the armor and stretches of the band with ammunitions. After facing the SAS with heroism, injured and bleeding, he listened to the call of his companions. He was saved. He returns and he greet the inert sergeant.

    - "Bye, "Perro" (dog), up to the meeting with the eternity". He touched him and went away almost being drained.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaWhisky58 View Post
    Following the ambush and several exchanges of fire at very close range (40-50m), the Cdo 602 Patrol commander (Maj Aldo Rico) called in artillery support and they bugged out. This was certainly no victory for Cdo 602, and to say that they gave The SAS "One hell of a fight" is wishful thinking at best.
    A wider view of the events...

    Between May 29 and 31 of 1982, violent combats happen on Mount Kent. The Chiefs of Commandos Companies 601 and 602 planed an operation to occupy the hills about the line of Mt. Kent. The Maj. Mario Castagneto and Maj. Aldo Rico would take two companies of commandos and entrench them to soon take out British helos by surprise. They sent 5 patrols in May 29, and the next day, they would join the National Guard 601 SF Squadron under command of Maj. José Spadaro. Although, on the next day, the helicopters could not go out, due the air was too "hot". The only helo that take off was a Puma, with 17 commandos, under command of Cpt. Jorge San Emeterio (from National Guard), but it was reached by ground fire (possibly blue on blue) and 6 men died. Cpt. Tomas Fernández sent a group to explore the path to the top of Mt. Bluff Cove Peak, but, at the first slope, when climbing a steep slope, they fell in to an ambush. There fell immediately the green berets Ruben Eduardo Márquez and Oscar Humberto Blas. The devastating blow were work from Maj. Cedric Delves SAS troops.

    For what happened in the combats with the patrols of SAS Squadron D, the Official Informative of the Argentinian Army above-mentioned "Cross of the Heroic Value in Combat " granted to first-lieutenant Rubén Márquez, who puts himself at the front of the 2nd squad, followed by first-sergeant Oscar Blas.

    For their conduct, both received the highest Argentinian decoration - the Cross to the Heroic Value in Combat:

    "To be opposed to an enemy superior faction in number in opportunity that was integrating a patrol of exploration that was operating in a zone occupied by the enemy. To alert with his action to his comrades and to fight up to achieving what these faced, offering his life in this action."



    The 3rd Assault Squad, under command of Cpt. Andrés Ferrero were let by a Bell UH-1H at 500 meters from Mt. Kent. The soldiers from 602 were spread from 50 to 50 meters, carrying two machine guns, Blowpipe misseils and grenade launchers. The 1st Lt. Francisco Maqueda gone ahead, due to his mountain experience. In certain moment, Cpt. Ferrero, together with Sgt. Arturo Oviedo, went further to communicate with 1st Lt. Maqueda: in this precise instant a rain of crossed fire knocked down on the soldiers who were walking behind. Cpt. Ferrero with Maqueda and Oviedo fell and gave them like dead men. Without doubt, an exchange of fire with tracers at the ridges of the mount, made them know that not all of their men were dead. After the ambush at Mt. Kent, Cpt. Fernández and Ferrero and the survivors from the 602 patrols, exchanged fire with the enemy at the heights and they answered up to the back of the valley, where they found ditches where they could hide. They remained isolated there during three days, observing the British helicopters that were taking off from San Carlos up to the Mt. Kent.

    The SAS patrols had four badly injured at the high parts of Mt. Kent and Bluff Cove Peak, meantime what happened to the Argentinian soldiers of 602 and National Guard, were 8 KIA and 9 WIA (the majority of soldiers were from Cpt. San Emeterio patrols).

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaWhisky58 View Post
    I'm not altogether sure as yet, in which actions the other men mentioned were killed, but I have considerable doubt that it was in action with the SAS. I'll have to dig deeper, but records on where/when individual Argies were killed are difficult to find in English, if at all. Such information often just isn't known, perhaps one of our Argentine members can help?
    IMHO, not as an expert, i think both accounts with SAS are a good to go. Mainly 'cus both groups Cisneros / Vizoso and Rico / Ferrero where in a common region and period of time.

    Still have some big accounts reffering to Cisneros / Vizoso, Rico / Ferrero groups, but is very long. It will take a while to translate, so i think it's better catch more important excerpts then put the whole thing...

    Anyway, sorry about the lame translation, but i think it might be helpful.

    Cheers!

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    Avoiding Asshats, Lying Low DeltaWhisky58's Avatar
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    Fulix - tremendous, many thanks. It's nice to get decent information instead of from kids who think they know.

    A big problem to Falklands Conflict enthusiasts such as myself is that there is very little material of Argentine origin in the English language, which makes research very difficult.

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    Avoiding Asshats, Lying Low DeltaWhisky58's Avatar
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    A TV heads up for those of you with Access to BBC2 (UK/Europe), and I believe this series is being shown in the US/Canada.

    [SIZE=4]Peter and Dan Snow: 20th Century Battlefields - 1982 Falklands[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=3]Mon 16 Jul, 9:00 pm - 10:00 pm 60mins[/SIZE]

    25 years ago Argentina triggered the last battle on British territory when it invaded the Falkland Islands. In this episode father-and-son presenters Peter and Dan Snow fly 8000 miles to the South Atlantic to tell the story of how the British Task Force fought back to regain control.

    With his high-tech graphic mapcase, Peter shows the challenges faced by the British, thousands of miles from home or even friendly bases. Dan feels the force of the Sea Harrier fighter jets, so crucial to the survival of the British fleet in these icy waters. And he goes on a night-fighting training exercise under live fire to experience for himself the tactics used by the British ground troops in their fight to dislodge the Argentinians.

    BBC TV

    Previously there have been WW1/WW2/Korea/Vietnam, and last week the 1973 Yom Kippur War. The week after next is the final programme on Gulf War 1.

    This has been a superb series with fantastic access to those who fought on both sides, fantastic visual aids etc.

    For those not having direct access, these shows will hopefully turn up on YouTube before long. Sorry, but such technical wizardry is way beyond me.

  4. #739
    Member Fulix's Avatar
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    NP, mate.

    I can imagine. As many materials don't get into english (or either side... Argentina-Britain, Britain-Argentina) then aren't an wide open publication, we still have to face some great/impartial to dubious/partial accounts... although this opposites are quite common in History.

    My concern, it's about the Brit side; i assume, SAS missions (some of them?) are now quite open to public... but, is there any account (Brits side) referring to clashes with Argies Commandos? That's the other side of the coin.

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    Avoiding Asshats, Lying Low DeltaWhisky58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulix View Post
    NP, mate.

    I can imagine. As many materials don't get into english (or either side... Argentina-Britain, Britain-Argentina) then aren't an wide open publication, we still have to face some great/impartial to dubious/partial accounts... although this opposites are quite common in History.

    My concern, it's about the Brit side; i assume, SAS missions (some of them?) are now quite open to public... but, is there any account (Brits side) referring to clashes with Argies Commandos? That's the other side of the coin.
    Virtually all of the British actions on The Falklands are now well covered in print, with perhaps the exception of a really detailed account of the initial actions of NP8901 on 2nd April 1982 by a member of the unit rather than non-military accounts such as that by the then Governor Rex Hunt, and the action at Top Malo House involving members of the RM M&AWC.

    The only really grey areas are the actual, and assumed actions of UK SF units on the Argentine (and Chilean) mainland, and the monumental balls up by Guards officers resulting in the huge casualties on RFA Sir Galahad following the bombing of 8th June.

    Which units encountered which in specific actions in covered very well by Hugh Bicheno in Razor's Edge. Whilst I know this book has many shortcomings, it is good in this respect, and has superb large-scale maps covering individual actions not described elsewhere, and also good cross-reference to photos of the battlefields.




    N.B. As this thread now mainly concerns the Falklands conflict, I'm merging it into the Falklands 25 thread as this is the obvious place for it.

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    Senior Member [WDW]Megaraptor's Avatar
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    I may have mentioned it earlier, but the book "Twilight Warriors" by Martin Arostegui has an account of the struggle for Mount Kent between the SAS/Royal Marines and Argentine 601/602 commando battalion, beginning with the ambush described above and ending with the battle of Top Malo House.

  7. #742
    Member Charly84's Avatar
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    Seargent Mario A. Cisnero was the only comando who died that day ( June 9th). 1st lieutenant Horacio Lauría and others comandos planned to recover the body of the fallen comrade, but they have spent most of their ammunition during the battle.

    Still reading "Comandos en Acción", great book about the Comando's operation during the war. Just give me some time to do some translations (exams are keeping me very busy).

  8. #743
    Avoiding Asshats, Lying Low DeltaWhisky58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [WDW]Megaraptor View Post
    I may have mentioned it earlier, but the book "Twilight Warriors" by Martin Arostegui has an account of the struggle for Mount Kent between the SAS/Royal Marines and Argentine 601/602 commando battalion, beginning with the ambush described above and ending with the battle of Top Malo House.
    Just picked up a a copy for £0.01 + £2.75 postage on Amazon.co.uk

  9. #744
    Banned user theholeinthedonut's Avatar
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    I just came across the following pic on the MOD site, to me it looks like the Soldiers of the Falkland Islands Defence Force are using the Steyr Aug.Can anybody confirm this please?
    http://www.defenceimagedatabase.mod....777C28AEF58384

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    Avoiding Asshats, Lying Low DeltaWhisky58's Avatar
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    This is very old news. The FIDF have been using the Steyr AUG for many years, and this has been covered in numerous threads here on MP.Net.

    The reason for the adoption of the AUG is that the FIDF is funded directly by the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office and not the MoD, and was thus able to choose its own weapons.

  11. #746
    Banned user theholeinthedonut's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot, never heard about that, just wondered.

  12. #747
    Senior Member sp2c's Avatar
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    what does the UK have on the islands militarily anyways?

  13. #748
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  14. #749
    Time spent on reconnaissance is seldom wasted kayaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaWhisky58 View Post

    .... and the monumental balls up by Guards officers resulting in the huge casualties on RFA Sir Galahad following the bombing of 8th June...
    Where can I learn more about this incident?

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    Avoiding Asshats, Lying Low DeltaWhisky58's Avatar
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    Despite being one of the best known incidents in the entire Falklands Conflict, it is without doubt one of the most poorly documented.

    It is covered in the latter part in Reasons In Writing by Ewan Southby-Tailyour, and in part in the various books by Simon Weston, a well known victim of the bombing, however there is no other detailed account of what happened and why that I know of.

    In short, the other ranks of 1st Welsh Guards plus personnel from an RAMC unit were kept aboard the RFA Sir Galahad at anchor in Port Pleasant harbour despite the specific orders of a Royal Marines officer who was i/c amphibious operations in the area. There is much theory and opinion on the matter, but it has never been fully investigated officially or otherwise, and despite blame being apportioned by some and a number of Guards officers mentioned by name on a recent TV documentary, we are really no closer to knowing what really happened and why, or who was really to blame.

    There have also been accusations of a cover up, but again there is no evidence one way or the other. Many have opinions, but no-one seems willing to go into print.

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