Falklands 30

[DeltaWhisky58]

Royal/Hollis, many thanks for clearing our the mindless dross that was spoiling this topic.

[beatles101]

this thread really did help with my reasearch paper that i had to do for school
many thanks guys

[Hollis]

Royal/Hollis, many thanks for clearing our the mindless dross that was spoiling this topic.

Thank you for your efforts in making this thread a memory of those who served.


H.

[Switek]

I will be regarded soon as one who is "mindless dross that is spoiling this topic" but thanks God DW has spoken again

[DeltaWhisky58]

Not at all Switek, you are always welcome.

I used to think that threads like this were the lifeblood of MP.Net, but that no longer seems to be the case. It's a case of the tail wagging the dog these days which is a great shame.

[Switek]

Thank you DW, !

From my perspective Falklands War was the first international conflict (except Lebanon civil war) I was aware of as a teenager. Of course from pro soviet, behind iron curtain, Polish media, those time was between neoimperial and neocolononial Great Britian and neonazi Argentina... but now I see that this war weren't held about the land (two islands correctly) but this war was about some universal principles. In this case Britons, acording to me, were right ... but Argentinians were victims of their own government political, short view, goals ... But my heart is divided and i truly believe that sooner or later Falklands/Malvinas wiil become a place of of mutual condonation.

I wish it all of of you.

[ninja-lewis]

Wildecat12 - That the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read ; my unit were on the Atlantic Conveyor and one chap won the Dso, why would they place all the Harriers / Helicopters / Stores / Tents / Communications equipment then use it as a decoy. When we disembarked at Dakar they could have unloaded more men and stores for the flight down to Ascension. When the Harriers left for the Aircraft Carriers, they could have also flown off all the Helicopters. What happened was an Exocet was fired from land at HMS Hermes but she used chaffing tactics and the missile located a new target the MV Atlantic Conveyor ; ~We have to thank god and whoever else that it did not find a troop ship” Also HMS Sheffield was made of steel and was a Leander Class Frigate. The biggest mistake made by the Argentina was they concentrated their missiles on the picket ships and not troop ships, the best move made by the British was in stopping the French supplying more Exocet Missiles.

With respect to your experience, could I bring up a couple of points, which seem to conflict with other reports of the Altantic Conveyor's loss.

Altantic Conveyor was hit by two Exocet missiles, launched by Super Étendard aircraft. The only land-launched Exocet attack I'm aware of was against HMS Glamorgan on 12 June while she was operating in support of the land battle. As far as I'm aware, they did begin preparing to fly the helicopters off once the Harriers were away. The helicopters required reassembly and maintenance following the extended sea journey. Unfortunately, they had only managed to launch one Chinook (Bravo November) for a test flight before being struck. I believe the aircraft carriers were behind Atlantic Conveyor: the Exocets initially locked on to other warships than Hermes or Invincible- had they not struck Atlantic Conveyor, their next target would likely have been the aircraft carriers. IIRC RFA stores ships were deliberately positioned between the frigates and the carriers according to Sandy Woodward. However, as you say, Atlantic Conveyor wasn't a deliberate decoy. She had been brought up to join the battlegroup in preparation to make a run during the hours of darkness into Falkland Sound and San Carlos to offload her cargo.

To be fair to France, they did help us prevent any more air-launched variants (ironically they had plenty of the ship-launched variant but since their navy barely left port following the sinking of Belgrano, only one or two were modified for jury-rigged shore-launchers) from reaching Argentina. Although France made them, they weren't the only country that could have sold them.

We were certainly lucky that the picket ships took the brunt of the air attacks rather than the landing ships. The main reason I've read for this was the Argentine pilots popping up, targetting the largest ship on their radar then getting the hell out of dodge as quick as they can. Hence why the picket ships took such heavy damage. The same with Bomb Alley. Between the warships in Falkland Sound and the Sea Harriers diving down as they escaped, Argentine pilots had poor odds of survival (they called it Death Alley). Given they were flying at several hundred knots and weren't exactly in a position to make several precise runs at a particular target, they simply targeted the first ship they saw and then ran for their lives. With the the landing group packed tightly in San Carlos and the frigates guarding the sea entrance, it isn't so surprising.

[herb401]

With respect to your experience, could I bring up a couple of points, which seem to conflict with other reports of the Altantic Conveyor's loss.

Altantic Conveyor was hit by two Exocet missiles, launched by Super Étendard aircraft. The only land-launched Exocet attack I'm aware of was against HMS Glamorgan on 12 June while she was operating in support of the land battle. As far as I'm aware, they did begin preparing to fly the helicopters off once the Harriers were away. The helicopters required reassembly and maintenance following the extended sea journey. Unfortunately, they had only managed to launch one Chinook (Bravo November) for a test flight before being struck. I believe the aircraft carriers were behind Atlantic Conveyor: the Exocets initially locked on to other warships than Hermes or Invincible- had they not struck Atlantic Conveyor, their next target would likely have been the aircraft carriers. IIRC RFA stores ships were deliberately positioned between the frigates and the carriers according to Sandy Woodward. However, as you say, Atlantic Conveyor wasn't a deliberate decoy. She had been brought up to join the battlegroup in preparation to make a run during the hours of darkness into Falkland Sound and San Carlos to offload her cargo.

To be fair to France, they did help us prevent any more air-launched variants (ironically they had plenty of the ship-launched variant but since their navy barely left port following the sinking of Belgrano, only one or two were modified for jury-rigged shore-launchers) from reaching Argentina. Although France made them, they weren't the only country that could have sold them.

We were certainly lucky that the picket ships took the brunt of the air attacks rather than the landing ships. The main reason I've read for this was the Argentine pilots popping up, targetting the largest ship on their radar then getting the hell out of dodge as quick as they can. Hence why the picket ships took such heavy damage. The same with Bomb Alley. Between the warships in Falkland Sound and the Sea Harriers diving down as they escaped, Argentine pilots had poor odds of survival (they called it Death Alley). Given they were flying at several hundred knots and weren't exactly in a position to make several precise runs at a particular target, they simply targeted the first ship they saw and then ran for their lives. With the the landing group packed tightly in San Carlos and the frigates guarding the sea entrance, it isn't so surprising.

Thank you for putting me right on this. I have not read to much on the subject but I was just trying to point out that it was no used as a decoy, I should know about the Glamorgan as that was hit the early morning we arrived but I did not know what or where she had been hit just got on with my job. I totally agree with the Argentine Pilots, very little time and little fuel stay over the ally for long so up select and hit.

[matthew.manhorn]

Can someone give me the names of the Argentinian pilots who had sunk the Sheffield?

[oscarteves]

Can someone give me the names of the Argentinian pilots who had sunk the Sheffield?

Capitán de Corbeta Augusto Bedacarratz
Teniente de Fragata Armando Mayora

Oscar

[matthew.manhorn]

Capitán de Corbeta Augusto Bedacarratz
Teniente de Fragata Armando Mayora

Oscar

thanks! those guys were very smart and brave

[Ordie]

thanks! those guys were very smart and brave

They were just as brave and smart as the crew of the Sheffield and Belgrano. Very tragic all the way around as many shipmates were lost.

[matthew.manhorn]

They were just as brave and smart as the crew of the Sheffield and Belgrano. Very tragic all the way around as many shipmates were lost.

Yes but you've got to give credit to the underdog who didn't use ANY fancy technology but pure skills. Remember, compared to Britain, Argentina hadn't been in war for almost 100+ years

[Ordie]

In this war, given the tyranny of time, distance and will, there were no underdogs. Only ordinary men who did the extrodinary in an unordinary situations.

[baboon6]

Yes but you've got to give credit to the underdog who didn't use ANY fancy technology but pure skills. Remember, compared to Britain, Argentina hadn't been in war for almost 100+ years

Most Argentine military technology was on a par with that of the UK forces. Some (like their Type 42 destroyers) had actually been purchased from Britain.