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Thread: Falklands 30

  1. #1111
    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaWhisky58 View Post
    Royal/Hollis, many thanks for clearing our the mindless dross that was spoiling this topic.

    Thank you for your efforts in making this thread a memory of those who served.


    H.

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    I will be regarded soon as one who is "mindless dross that is spoiling this topic" but thanks God DW has spoken again

  3. #1113
    Avoiding Asshats, Lying Low DeltaWhisky58's Avatar
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    Not at all Switek, you are always welcome.

    I used to think that threads like this were the lifeblood of MP.Net, but that no longer seems to be the case. It's a case of the tail wagging the dog these days which is a great shame.

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    Thank you DW, !

    From my perspective Falklands War was the first international conflict (except Lebanon civil war) I was aware of as a teenager. Of course from pro soviet, behind iron curtain, Polish media, those time was between neoimperial and neocolononial Great Britian and neonazi Argentina... but now I see that this war weren't held about the land (two islands correctly) but this war was about some universal principles. In this case Britons, acording to me, were right ... but Argentinians were victims of their own government political, short view, goals ... But my heart is divided and i truly believe that sooner or later Falklands/Malvinas wiil become a place of of mutual condonation.

    I wish it all of of you.

  5. #1115

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    Quote Originally Posted by herb401 View Post
    Wildecat12 - That the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read ; my unit were on the Atlantic Conveyor and one chap won the Dso, why would they place all the Harriers / Helicopters / Stores / Tents / Communications equipment then use it as a decoy. When we disembarked at Dakar they could have unloaded more men and stores for the flight down to Ascension. When the Harriers left for the Aircraft Carriers, they could have also flown off all the Helicopters. What happened was an Exocet was fired from land at HMS Hermes but she used chaffing tactics and the missile located a new target the MV Atlantic Conveyor ; ~We have to thank god and whoever else that it did not find a troop ship” Also HMS Sheffield was made of steel and was a Leander Class Frigate. The biggest mistake made by the Argentina was they concentrated their missiles on the picket ships and not troop ships, the best move made by the British was in stopping the French supplying more Exocet Missiles.
    With respect to your experience, could I bring up a couple of points, which seem to conflict with other reports of the Altantic Conveyor's loss.

    Altantic Conveyor was hit by two Exocet missiles, launched by Super Étendard aircraft. The only land-launched Exocet attack I'm aware of was against HMS Glamorgan on 12 June while she was operating in support of the land battle. As far as I'm aware, they did begin preparing to fly the helicopters off once the Harriers were away. The helicopters required reassembly and maintenance following the extended sea journey. Unfortunately, they had only managed to launch one Chinook (Bravo November) for a test flight before being struck. I believe the aircraft carriers were behind Atlantic Conveyor: the Exocets initially locked on to other warships than Hermes or Invincible- had they not struck Atlantic Conveyor, their next target would likely have been the aircraft carriers. IIRC RFA stores ships were deliberately positioned between the frigates and the carriers according to Sandy Woodward. However, as you say, Atlantic Conveyor wasn't a deliberate decoy. She had been brought up to join the battlegroup in preparation to make a run during the hours of darkness into Falkland Sound and San Carlos to offload her cargo.

    To be fair to France, they did help us prevent any more air-launched variants (ironically they had plenty of the ship-launched variant but since their navy barely left port following the sinking of Belgrano, only one or two were modified for jury-rigged shore-launchers) from reaching Argentina. Although France made them, they weren't the only country that could have sold them.

    We were certainly lucky that the picket ships took the brunt of the air attacks rather than the landing ships. The main reason I've read for this was the Argentine pilots popping up, targetting the largest ship on their radar then getting the hell out of dodge as quick as they can. Hence why the picket ships took such heavy damage. The same with Bomb Alley. Between the warships in Falkland Sound and the Sea Harriers diving down as they escaped, Argentine pilots had poor odds of survival (they called it Death Alley). Given they were flying at several hundred knots and weren't exactly in a position to make several precise runs at a particular target, they simply targeted the first ship they saw and then ran for their lives. With the the landing group packed tightly in San Carlos and the frigates guarding the sea entrance, it isn't so surprising.

  6. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninja-lewis View Post
    With respect to your experience, could I bring up a couple of points, which seem to conflict with other reports of the Altantic Conveyor's loss.

    Altantic Conveyor was hit by two Exocet missiles, launched by Super Étendard aircraft. The only land-launched Exocet attack I'm aware of was against HMS Glamorgan on 12 June while she was operating in support of the land battle. As far as I'm aware, they did begin preparing to fly the helicopters off once the Harriers were away. The helicopters required reassembly and maintenance following the extended sea journey. Unfortunately, they had only managed to launch one Chinook (Bravo November) for a test flight before being struck. I believe the aircraft carriers were behind Atlantic Conveyor: the Exocets initially locked on to other warships than Hermes or Invincible- had they not struck Atlantic Conveyor, their next target would likely have been the aircraft carriers. IIRC RFA stores ships were deliberately positioned between the frigates and the carriers according to Sandy Woodward. However, as you say, Atlantic Conveyor wasn't a deliberate decoy. She had been brought up to join the battlegroup in preparation to make a run during the hours of darkness into Falkland Sound and San Carlos to offload her cargo.

    To be fair to France, they did help us prevent any more air-launched variants (ironically they had plenty of the ship-launched variant but since their navy barely left port following the sinking of Belgrano, only one or two were modified for jury-rigged shore-launchers) from reaching Argentina. Although France made them, they weren't the only country that could have sold them.

    We were certainly lucky that the picket ships took the brunt of the air attacks rather than the landing ships. The main reason I've read for this was the Argentine pilots popping up, targetting the largest ship on their radar then getting the hell out of dodge as quick as they can. Hence why the picket ships took such heavy damage. The same with Bomb Alley. Between the warships in Falkland Sound and the Sea Harriers diving down as they escaped, Argentine pilots had poor odds of survival (they called it Death Alley). Given they were flying at several hundred knots and weren't exactly in a position to make several precise runs at a particular target, they simply targeted the first ship they saw and then ran for their lives. With the the landing group packed tightly in San Carlos and the frigates guarding the sea entrance, it isn't so surprising.
    Thank you for putting me right on this. I have not read to much on the subject but I was just trying to point out that it was no used as a decoy, I should know about the Glamorgan as that was hit the early morning we arrived but I did not know what or where she had been hit just got on with my job. I totally agree with the Argentine Pilots, very little time and little fuel stay over the ally for long so up select and hit.

  7. #1117
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    Can someone give me the names of the Argentinian pilots who had sunk the Sheffield?

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew.manhorn View Post
    Can someone give me the names of the Argentinian pilots who had sunk the Sheffield?
    Capitán de Corbeta Augusto Bedacarratz
    Teniente de Fragata Armando Mayora

    Oscar

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarteves View Post
    Capitán de Corbeta Augusto Bedacarratz
    Teniente de Fragata Armando Mayora

    Oscar
    thanks! those guys were very smart and brave

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew.manhorn View Post
    thanks! those guys were very smart and brave
    They were just as brave and smart as the crew of the Sheffield and Belgrano. Very tragic all the way around as many shipmates were lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordie View Post
    They were just as brave and smart as the crew of the Sheffield and Belgrano. Very tragic all the way around as many shipmates were lost.
    Yes but you've got to give credit to the underdog who didn't use ANY fancy technology but pure skills. Remember, compared to Britain, Argentina hadn't been in war for almost 100+ years

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    In this war, given the tyranny of time, distance and will, there were no underdogs. Only ordinary men who did the extrodinary in an unordinary situations.

  13. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew.manhorn View Post
    Yes but you've got to give credit to the underdog who didn't use ANY fancy technology but pure skills. Remember, compared to Britain, Argentina hadn't been in war for almost 100+ years
    Most Argentine military technology was on a par with that of the UK forces. Some (like their Type 42 destroyers) had actually been purchased from Britain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRGH View Post
    It was a bit different the last time I was there.







    Wanted to go back at the anniversary but couldn't get sponsorship from the MOD - They were quick enough to send me when the **** was flying!
    Dear PRGH: ¿The fourth man (camuflad jacket) is Jeremy Moore?

    Oscar

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew.manhorn View Post
    Yes but you've got to give credit to the underdog who didn't use ANY fancy technology but pure skills. Remember, compared to Britain, Argentina hadn't been in war for almost 100+ years
    Given that fact that Argentina had been waging a dirty war in its own lands from the early 1970 and it boarder war with Chile I would have to say that they did have the relevant skills to take on a war with the UK they also tried a little skirmish back in 1976 when an Argentina Airliner was hijacked and landed on the island’s a good friend of mine was with the 8901 garrison back then; he commanded the team that disarmed the aircraft and hijackers. As for weapons they had as good as ours maybe better in some cases, not good air cover thanks to some very well planed attacks but the Argentine Pilots were very capable. What let their men down was leadership from above and the fact they under estimated the UK Response. As for the UK Forces we had not been in a major conflict since Suzie and Cyprus back in the late 50 and early 60, you cannot compare Northern Ireland with the Falklands War totally different stagies. I like some on this threat can speak from experience as I was in Northern Ireland on a 2 year tour of duty and down here in 82.

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