The Best MANPAD or Shoulder launched SAM
What do you think is the best shoulder launched surface-to-air missile.
Ive seen or handeled about all of these in real except for Blowpipe and Stinger, and of those remaining in the list, i know that IGLA is the best. (SA-18)
And also of the all the lectures ive had of MANPADs in general, i still would go with IGLA, which is simple, effective, ECM/FLARE resistant (dual band-seeker, and "unbreakable lock-on"..) and reliable plus has VERY good temperature tolerance.
Dunno.
How has each performed in combat so far?
Kills?
Misses?
Resistance to ECM/flares?
Ease of use?
And the like.
Survey Says:
Unbreakable lock-on ehh?
Unbreakable lock-on would equal 100% kill probablity, right? Am I missing something here?SA-18 GROUSE
Igla 9K38
SA-N-10 GROUSE
Igla-M
The SA-18 GROUSE (Igla 9K38) is an improved variant in the the SA-7 & SA-14 series of manportable SAMs. As with the earlier SA-14, the SA-18 uses of a similar thermal battery/gas bottle, and the SA-18 has the same 2 kilogram high-explosive warhead fitted with a contact and grazing fuse. But the missile of entirely new design with substantially improved range and speed,. The new seeker and aerodynamic improvements extend its effective range, and its higher speed enables it to be used against faster targets. The SA-18 has a maximum range of 5200 meters and a maximum altitude of 3500 meters. The 9M39 missile SA-18 employs an IR guidance system using proportional convergence logic. The new seeker offers better protection against electro-optical jammers; the probability of kill against an unprotected fighter is estimated at 30-48%, and the use of IRCM jammers only degrades this to 24-30%. The Igla-M [SA-N-10 ] is the naval version of the SA-18.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/m.../row/sa-18.htm
You are missing that although Fas is a handy place to look for info there are major errors and mistakes in the information there... for example look up the R-77 and it shows a picture of an AMRAAM with its fins not fitted.Am I missing something here?
You will also note that it mentions unprotected fighters, and IR jammers but not flares... why would they be not mentioned considering most aircraft rely on little else for protection?
There is no such thing as a sure thing, but Igla is very good, and more importantly cheap.
The MANPAD class of missile is not much good unless it is widely deployed.
BTW I wonder why a certain laser guided Swedish missile isn't included, or for that matter Starstreak. (Blowpipe is heavy and largely useless, but Starstreak looks very good).
WHERE IS GROM ??
its way better than Stinger and Igla! (we had "borrowed" documentations of both. Vivat Marian Zacharski!)
Where is the RBS-70 ?
About MANPADS, the Mistral 2 looks also very effective...
-MISTRAL 2 has a 93% proven success rate and higher reliability than any other existing low level air defence missile.
-MISTRAL 2 is capable of engaging aerial targets having a low infrared signature, be they helicopters, UAVs or supersonic aircraft. The missile maximal speed is Mach 2.5 and its maximal interception range is 6 000 meters.
MAIN FEATURES and ADVANTAGES
Efficiency
-regardless of the presentation of the target,
-short interception time,
-against aircraft, helicopters, sea skimmers, UAVs,
-lethal (efficient warhead with proximity fuse and high guidance precision),
-highly reliable, very simple maintenance.
Simplicity
-Easier to install, easier to use: fire-and-forget engagement mode (no one involved in guidance),
-minimum training required,
-very low reaction time (can be kept on alert for long periods),
-used in stand-alone or coordinated mode.
Versatility
-the same missile can be used from various platforms (vehicles, surface ships, helicopters),
-operated in different environments: -46°C to +71°C,
-humidity up to 95%,
-can resist strong vibrations,
-naval environment,
-insensitive to crosswinds.
source: http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/...=EN&noeu_id=90More than 1 500 MISTRAL 1 and MISTRAL 2 missiles have been fired by many armed force units under realistic operational conditions with a 93% success rate on a large range of targets (from hovering helicopters to high-speed jet-drones).
More than 15,000 MISTRAL 1 and MISTRAL 2 missiles and the associated firing systems have been ordered by 37 Armed Forces in 25 different countries including eight in Europe, eight in Pacific Asia, four in the Middle East and five in South America.
not saying that mistral is crap but u can't truly believe what the manufacturer says on their website...they r trying to sell the missle afterall! Exocet was/is a best selling missle yet in it's only combat usage (the falklands) it wasn't all that effective, HMS Sheffield was done in by the fire started by the missles motor not the warhead, and most of the rest were fooled by decoys (prince Andrew flew some of those missions). With the exception of HMS Sheffield the rest of the British ship losses were from plain ol iron bombs. Aerospatiale didn't mention this fact! I can't blame them i wouldn't have eitherOriginally Posted by -Max-
Where is the RBS-70 ?
About MANPADS, the Mistral 2 looks also very effective...
-MISTRAL 2 has a 93% proven success rate and higher reliability than any other existing low level air defence missile.
-MISTRAL 2 is capable of engaging aerial targets having a low infrared signature, be they helicopters, UAVs or supersonic aircraft. The missile maximal speed is Mach 2.5 and its maximal interception range is 6 000 meters.
MAIN FEATURES and ADVANTAGES
Efficiency
-regardless of the presentation of the target,
-short interception time,
-against aircraft, helicopters, sea skimmers, UAVs,
-lethal (efficient warhead with proximity fuse and high guidance precision),
-highly reliable, very simple maintenance.
Simplicity
-Easier to install, easier to use: fire-and-forget engagement mode (no one involved in guidance),
-minimum training required,
-very low reaction time (can be kept on alert for long periods),
-used in stand-alone or coordinated mode.
Versatility
-the same missile can be used from various platforms (vehicles, surface ships, helicopters),
-operated in different environments: -46°C to +71°C,
-humidity up to 95%,
-can resist strong vibrations,
-naval environment,
-insensitive to crosswinds.
source: http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/...=EN&noeu_id=90More than 1 500 MISTRAL 1 and MISTRAL 2 missiles have been fired by many armed force units under realistic operational conditions with a 93% success rate on a large range of targets (from hovering helicopters to high-speed jet-drones).
More than 15,000 MISTRAL 1 and MISTRAL 2 missiles and the associated firing systems have been ordered by 37 Armed Forces in 25 different countries including eight in Europe, eight in Pacific Asia, four in the Middle East and five in South America.
Realistic operational conditions.....l don't think the drones replicated a violently maneuvering aircraft flown by live, desperate, my ass is gonna die if i screw up pilot!lol
At what I heard, the Mistral is the best RBS 70 is not really shoulder launched but also very good.
25 countries use the Mistral. Its a pledge of quality i believe...not saying that mistral is crap but u can't truly believe what the manufacturer says on their website...they r trying to sell the missle afterall!
Wrong. The Exocet was used during the Iran-Iraq war with some success: 115 Iranians tankers, containers ship, bulk carriers, etc were lost (either sunk or "considered total damage") after being hit by Iraqi Exocets. And the USS Stark destroyer was also hit by a Exocet and nearly sunk...Exocet was/is a best selling missle yet in it's only combat usage (the falklands) it wasn't all that effective, HMS Sheffield was done in by the fire started by the missles motor not the warhead, and most of the rest were fooled by decoys (prince Andrew flew some of those missions). With the exception of HMS Sheffield the rest of the British ship losses were from plain ol iron bombs. Aerospatiale didn't mention this fact! I can't blame them i wouldn't have either.
For the HMS Sheffield, despite the warhead did not detonate, he nevertheless sunk. And dont forget the Atlantic Conveyor...
Not to forget the Argentineans only had very few of the Exocet, so they used free falling Bombs most of the time.
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/Exocet.html
FIM-92 Stinger-RMP Block II
u say atlantic conveyor..ok (not a warship, no missles or guns to defend itself and at anchor. Didn't need a super missle to sink that ) USS Stark (not during a war + the vulcan was turned off i remember), 115 various tankers, bulk carriers and such, hardly make for great examples this is considered combat proven? to me combat proven would be multiple kills against targets that are difficult to kill. Tell me it breached multiple layers of defence then i'll say it is a helluva missle. Merchant shipping does not require a world beating missle to sink. The exocet was sold because of it's rep against warships not civillian ships.
I don't care if 100 countries, i never said it was crap i said u can never trust stats posted by the manufacturer, u have info from an independant, non biased source, then ok i'll give it more credance.
Starstreak should be on there - not exactly fire and forget though as it has to be guided onto the target - SACLOS as I recall. It does mean that IR flares wont affect it.
Is possible to get a bad modern MANPADS ? Certainly anything in the same generation of Mistral, IGLA etc would fit the job. BTW, considering the Israeli expertise in designing their own missiles, have they ever designed and fielded a MANPADS ?
No, it has +75% kill propability, and if you actually would know anything about air denfence and MANPADS, you would also know that the operator dont have anykinds of range finders so theres real possibility that he will launch the missile when the target is still out of effective range and so the missile becomes much more ineffective, and is more likely to miss.... and even the pilot of the targeted plane can try to evade the missile if he spots it in time, IE JUST PULL UP.... and again any MANPAD is quite likely to miss.Unbreakable lock-on would equal 100% kill probablity, right? Am I missing something here?
and also, the missile operator rarely has the accurate info about the targets speed, which also if too high, will reduce the effectiveness of the missile.
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