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Thread: M1 carabine, a bullpup upgrade.

  1. #1
    Senior Member IDF_TANKER's Avatar
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    Default M1 carabine, a bullpup upgrade.

    This one's kind of interesting. It's another Israeli offering. Basically, it's classic M1 Carbine meets Tavor-2 subcarbine. At least that's how it looks. The HEZI SM-1 PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) is chambered for the .30 Carbine (7.62x33mm) round which was utilized to mixed effect by troopers in WWII with their M1 Carbines. The HEZI SM-1 PDW is...

    manufactured and marketed by Advanced Combat Systems (ACS) Ltd.
    The full article is here



    The manufacturer site:
    http://www.advancedcombat.com/military/sm1.html

    [edit]
    More pictures:



    [SIZE=2][SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Helv][SIZE=2][*******#000000]


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    Last edited by IDF_TANKER; 07-06-2007 at 08:18 PM.

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    Senior Member wicked_hind's Avatar
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    Default

    Looks nice, but I'd still prefer the old school look any day.

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    Senior Member KillerBD's Avatar
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    It looks pretty cool.

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    Member BillySing's Avatar
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    Pity the .30 M1 Carbine is as weak as dishwater.

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    mp.net numba wan Chinaman SMGLee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillySing View Post
    Pity the .30 M1 Carbine is as weak as dishwater.

    I agree, but i just wouldn't want to be shot by one...

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    Senior Member IDF_TANKER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillySing View Post
    Pity the .30 M1 Carbine is as weak as dishwater.
    From the article:
    Remember, since the .30 Carbine round was an FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) round per military requirement, over-penetration and lack of stopping power came with the territory. However, now, since the HEZI SM-1 PDW is designed primarily as an LE SWAT/patrol weapon, modern hollowpoint bullet technology should solve both of the afforementioned deficiencies. Updated .30 Carbine (7.62x33mm) ammo should offer performance equal to or greater than modern .357 magnum ammo.
    From the manufacturer site:
    The .30-caliber bullet is more powerful than a .357 Magnum, yet minimizes ricochets and danger to bystanders.

  7. #7
    Massgruàgschdemmiga Jarhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wicked_hind View Post
    Looks nice, but I'd still prefer the old school look any day.
    Indeed the old school M1a1 looks just better

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    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wicked_hind View Post
    Looks nice, but I'd still prefer the old school look any day.

    Top one, has a interesting sling configuration. GI slings are held on to the rear, by the oiler, missing in the above picture.

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    Member BillySing's Avatar
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    The .30 M-1 carbine just as powerful as the .357 Magnum..........

    It can throw a lighter bullet at higher velocity, but it can't hold a candle to the .357 magnum.

    You could probably get a solid 1600 FPS performance from the .30 M-1 carbine with it's heaviest bullet, a 125 grain.

    The .357 magnum, however, can use a 200 grain projectile at 1,335 fps, and it's 125 grain can produce 1,700 fps with a heavy load.

    The .30 M-1 carbine can throw a 125 grainer a little bit faster for a bit further, though the difference in projectile construction is quite substantial. These days manufacturers try and use speed as a substitute for bullet weight, and I c an tell you that speed counts for zilch when your trying to stop something. I know that the geriatric .45-70 can trump the zippy little .223 family easily when it comes to slowing something down.

    I think the company is slightly disillusioned as to how good the .30 M-1 carbine is.

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    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Billy, if they are selling to the civilian sector, then it is all moot. The military decided long ago that it was a weapon for 2nd Lt. In case the 2nd Lt shoot someone they would survive, that someone would probably be his own people. J/K. Winter time during the Korea War demonstrated how ineffective the round was.

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    Senior Member IDF_TANKER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillySing View Post
    The .30 M-1 carbine just as powerful as the .357 Magnum..........

    It can throw a lighter bullet at higher velocity, but it can't hold a candle to the .357 magnum.

    You could probably get a solid 1600 FPS performance from the .30 M-1 carbine with it's heaviest bullet, a 125 grain.

    The .357 magnum, however, can use a 200 grain projectile at 1,335 fps, and it's 125 grain can produce 1,700 fps with a heavy load.

    The .30 M-1 carbine can throw a 125 grainer a little bit faster for a bit further, though the difference in projectile construction is quite substantial. These days manufacturers try and use speed as a substitute for bullet weight, and I c an tell you that speed counts for zilch when your trying to stop something. I know that the geriatric .45-70 can trump the zippy little .223 family easily when it comes to slowing something down.

    I think the company is slightly disillusioned as to how good the .30 M-1 carbine is.
    You mean the contrary - it has illusions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IDF_TANKER View Post
    You mean the contrary - it has illusions?
    D'oh!

    I'll fix it, if you fix the thread title.

    Carbine, not carabine.

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    Senior Member IDF_TANKER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillySing View Post
    D'oh!

    I'll fix it, if you fix the thread title.

    Carbine, not carabine.
    I can't!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLiS View Post
    Billy, if they are selling to the civilian sector, then it is all moot. The military decided long ago that it was a weapon for 2nd Lt. In case the 2nd Lt shoot someone they would survive, that someone would probably be his own people. J/K. Winter time during the Korea War demonstrated how ineffective the round was.
    True.

    As for the manufacturer, they should retract that irritatingly false statement, or at least reword it.

  15. #15
    I've got your hardwood.... right here Durandal's Avatar
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    This has been around for several years now.

    Been discussed on this this forum as well.

    That said, Israel has a HUGE stock pile of .30 carbine, hence the need to find a use for it.

    Everyone can ***** about the .30 round all they want, but its perfect for its role. A rear echelon carbine to replace the 1911. The weapon is accurate and will kill someone.

    The "winter in korea" while having some ruth to it is mainly blown out of proportion.

    Plenty of Germans died from the round and I would wager some Japanese did too.

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