in the hands of a country with an excellent air force, yes. iran? no. great jet+bad pilots+most jets would get struck by early strikes in a war=minimal threat, huge waste of money.Originally Posted by Railcat
IMO this is just iran trying to throw a little scare like when they anounce buying missles, arms, or developing their own own anti ship missles.
Is there any evidence to say Iranian pilots are bad?
They acquited themselves fairly well in the Iran-Iraq war.
Why shouldn't they have the right to improve their military. It's not like they don't have the need for it. They are desperately in need of new jet fighters. If it weren't for US sanctions and pressure on Iran we would probably be saying "wow" or "good job". Instead it's met with derision and "omg, why do they want to do that".
Why is every improvement in the Iranian military met with shrieks while if Israel or another military were to buy more equipment they get applause and a slap on the back.
I think your attitude is somewhat condescending.
Because people take sides?
I personally am taking no sides in this whole mess, but feel free to say "Go IRAN!", no-one will stop you
It's not just a matter of taking sides.Because people take sides?
I personally am taking no sides in this whole mess, but feel free to say "Go IRAN!", no-one will stop you
If it were Russia or China people would be creaming over their military developments and procurements.
While the Russian and Chinese members would be getting nervous about US buildups. But then again they would be pretty used to it, US has been pumping up it's military for a decade straight.
Like I said, people take sides.
As for me propaganda BS or Iran is going to invade someone?
two words of wisdom
bull shit
Oil prices work in the Ruble's favor, not the Rial's. Added to that is the fact that 75% of the petroleum revenue goes back into the Iranian petrochemical infrastructure, as they are in the midst of a modernization cycle.
All told, the net profit from the petroleum industry (before infrastructure improvements) is <$50Billion, most of the non-infrastructure funds going into subsidies (gasoline and foodstuff, especially).
Just because you have oil in the ground does not mean you are rich. Iran's social and technical problems eat up their resource-based money.
Also, the US Dollar is showing no signs of losing ground, with regard to it's slice of the global Reserve Currency market (currently forming ~65%). The Dollar's exchange rate may fluctuate*, but international confidence in the Fed remains solid.
in 2003 Malaysia bought http://www.dawn.com/2003/08/09/int1.htm1 squadron for $900million, and think about 12 planes to a squadron? so 250 planes is about 20 squadrons for a total of about $18 Billion non discounted, then u have bombs and rockets and then spares and equipment, then pilot training and fule cost .. so safe cost would be about $25 Billion
International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, puts Iran's defense budget for 2005 at $6.2 bln. http://www.iranmania.com/News/Articl...urrent+Affairs
so this deal is about 5 years of their TOTAL spending?
Yes, but both those countries are known for their capability, and their militaries are not primarily Internal Security forces (with corresponding inability to compete with Premier League G8 forces). Unlike all Middle Eastern militaries, save Israel.
Iran can buy all the Sukhois it wants. It doesn't have the pilots (flight hrs/month or institutional experience) or support (AWACs, JSTARS, the ten thousand E5's back MacDill AFB who plan sorties) necessary to engage any of the top 10 air forces and come away a winner.
Can't fight the USAF when the RAF has blown up all your fuel depots and ammo dumps.
The reason that the US and UK (and others) spend much more money on their militaries than, say, Iran, is because it requires a minimum amount, spent over decades of training and aquisitions, to build a military capable of fighting in the modern battlespace. If you do it right, when the fight comes, you get to call the shots.
For example: Iraq, in '91, had a modern integrated AD network. However, their ability to engage Coalition forces beyond that network's cover approached zero (AWACS and Coalition AD systems made it suicide). Result: The Coalition dismantled the network, piece by piece (SF, Apache's, SEAD specialist aircraft and Stealth elements), then went after the Iraqi aircraft while they were on the ground. After the main Iraqi radars were eliminated, the Iraqi Air Force had to fly in active mode to find their Coalition counterparts (who did not have to emit, as AWACS guided them to the enemy).
The Coalition could have been flying F-86's and EE Lightnings. The result would have been the same. It wasn't the aircraft that won the fight, but the systems supporting those aircraft.
If you can defend, but not attack, and your opponent can do both, you are dead in the water.
Iran would be wise to scrap those plans for shiny new Sukhoi's. As MichaelF pointed out they have plenty other things missing from their inventories. For defence it should ignore it's airfleet and focus on acquiring sophisticated long-range Air Defence systems that cover entire territory, as well as Point Defence systems to defend key facilities. Iran is surrounded on all sides save the Caspian Sea area, but rumour has it that Azerbaijan may allow USAF to launch strikes from it's airbases.
If Iran really is so desperate to attack, smart thing to do would be to invest into Missile Technology, which unlike Aircraft can't be intercepted by superior enemy Air Forces.
If by "Sukhois" you mean this:
then yes, I'm sure 144 "Sukhois" were killed.
But the F-22 hasn't faced any Russian jets in any training scenario so far (Sukhoi, Mikoyan, Tupolev, etc.), so I have no clue what your really getting at.
It's not that Western(ized) militaries are full of superhumans.
It's that we approach War in a certain manner.
Hundreds of smaller items and operations that combine to support the main effort. So that, when you fight (for example) a squadron of the Italian Air Force, you aren't fighting a dozen or so pilots and their aircraft. You are fighting the entire Italian Air Force, plus supporting elements of the other Services. Satellite Intel analysts, AWACS, radio-intercept cryptologists, technicians and maintenance personnel. All of whom are working so that you are already dead before Lt. Luigi fires the Sidewinder.
IOW, we stack the deck.
Also, we cheat. We like to hit enemy aircraft while they are on the ground. And bring trade embargos on them, so their supply of parts and ammo are attrited.
They wouldn't be paying with the rial. There is no doubt that without investment and infrastructure Iran's oil pumping capability will diminish. That's why they are hunting for investors and while sanctions have having an affect - I think they have managed some deals.
I've said i think the story is BS. There would have to be a major major falling out between Russia and the US for them to go through with it.
Regardless - it's still weakening and most likely will continue to weaken as the US economy slows down.Also, the US Dollar is showing no signs of losing ground, with regard to it's slice of the global Reserve Currency market (currently forming ~65%). The Dollar's exchange rate may fluctuate*, but international confidence in the Fed remains solid.
I don't know if that will affect global confidence in the dollar but Russia, Venezuela and other nations have recently being shifting dollar assets to a more varied basket of currencies.
250 may be a bit too high for Iran when you add up the cost of all the other junk that's needed to support this kind of military buildup. But the fact is Iran has an old airforce, F-14' are 30 years old and I doubt their
F-4 and F-5's will do anyhting against a vast number of US aircraft.
I also doubt that Iran has the capability to produce their own modern Jet fighter, their unveiling of the Sahegh or whatever you call it is not modern but a small and light copy of a 30 year old aircraft they already have. I think if they will purchase aircraft it will be from Russia, but not 250 maybe 50 but i dunno if they even have money for that.
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