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Thread: The U.S. is not a 'Christian nation'

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    Default The U.S. is not a 'Christian nation'


    The U.S. is not a 'Christian nation'
    By Jon Meacham

    Monday, October 8, 2007

    Senator John McCain was not on the campus of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University last year for very long - McCain, who once referred to Falwell and Pat Robertson as "agents of intolerance," was there to receive an honorary degree - but he seems to have picked up some theology along with his academic hood.
    In a recent interview with Beliefnet.com, McCain repeated what is an article of faith among many American evangelicals: "The Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation."
    According to Scripture, however, believers are to be wary of all mortal powers. Their home is the kingdom of God, which transcends all earthly things, not any particular nation-state.
    The Psalmist advises believers to "put not your trust in princes." The author of Job says that the Lord "shows no partiality to princes nor regards the rich above the poor, for they are all the work of his hands." Before Pilate, Jesus says, "My kingdom is not of this world."
    And if, as Paul writes in Galatians, "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus," then it is difficult to see how there could be a distinction in God's eyes between, say, an American and an Australian.
    In fact, there is no distinction if you believe Peter's words in the Acts of the Apostles: "I most certainly believe now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is welcome to him."
    The kingdom Jesus preached was radical. Not only are nations irrelevant, but families are, too: He instructs those who would be his disciples to give up all they have and all those they know to follow him.
    The only acknowledgment of God in the original Constitution is a utilitarian one: The document is dated "in the year of our Lord 1787." Even the religion clause of the First Amendment is framed dryly and without reference to any particular faith. The Connecticut ratifying convention debated rewriting the preamble to take note of God's authority, but the effort failed.
    A pseudonymous opponent of the Connecticut proposal had some fun with the notion of a deity who would, in a sense, be checking the index for his name: "A low mind may imagine that God, like a foolish old man, will think himself slighted and dishonored if he is not complimented with a seat or a prologue of recognition in the Constitution."
    Instead, the framers, the opponent wrote in The American Mercury, "come to us in the plain language of common sense and propose to our understanding a system of government as the invention of mere human wisdom; no deity comes down to dictate it, not a God appears in a dream to propose any part of it."
    While many states maintained established churches and religious tests for office - Massachusetts was the last to disestablish, in 1833 - the federal framers, in their refusal to link civil rights to religious observance or adherence, helped create a culture of religious liberty that ultimately carried the day.
    Thomas Jefferson said his bill for religious liberty in Virginia was "meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mahometan, the Hindu, and infidel of every denomination."
    When George Washington was inaugurated in New York in April 1789, Gershom Seixas, the hazan of Shearith Israel, was listed among the city's clergymen (there were 14 in New York at the time) - a sign of acceptance and respect. The next year, Washington wrote the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, Rhode Island, saying, "happily the government of the United States gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance. Everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid."
    Andrew Jackson resisted bids in the 1820s to form a "Christian party in politics." Abraham Lincoln buried a proposed "Christian amendment" to the Constitution to declare the nation's fealty to Jesus. Theodore Roosevelt defended William Howard Taft, a Unitarian, from religious attacks by supporters of William Jennings Bryan.
    The founders were not anti-religion. Many of them were faithful in their personal lives, and in their public language they evoked God.
    They grounded the founding principle of the nation - that all men are created equal - in the divine. But they wanted faith to be one thread in the country's tapestry, not the whole tapestry.
    In the 1790s, in the waters off Tripoli, pirates were making sport of American shipping near the Barbary Coast. Toward the end of his second term, Washington sent Joel Barlow, the diplomat-poet, to Tripoli to settle matters, and the resulting treaty, finished after Washington left office, bought a few years of peace. Article 11 of this long-ago document says that "as the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion," there should be no cause for conflict over differences of "religious opinion" between countries.
    The treaty passed the Senate unanimously. McCain is not the only American who would find it useful reading.
    Jon Meacham, the editor of Newsweek, is the author of "American Gospel" and "Franklin and Winston."
    Source:http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?id=7800100
    Last edited by Ordie; 10-09-2007 at 07:52 PM.

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    eye candy of death 2Sheds_Jackson's Avatar
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    In the 1790s, in the waters off Tripoli, pirates were making sport of American shipping near the Barbary Coast. Toward the end of his second term, Washington sent Joel Barlow, the diplomat-poet, to Tripoli to settle matters, and the resulting treaty, finished after Washington left office, bought a few years of peace. Article 11 of this long-ago document says that "as the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion," there should be no cause for conflict over differences of "religious opinion" between countries.
    Hee hee - yeah, tell that to the sailors during their mandatory daily prayers.

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    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Sheds_Jackson View Post
    Hee hee - yeah, tell that to the sailors during their mandatory daily prayers.

    No Kidding, it is a nation of the people, not a people of the nation.

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    A pseudonymous opponent of the Connecticut proposal had some fun with the notion of a deity who would, in a sense, be checking the index for his name: "A low mind may imagine that God, like a foolish old man, will think himself slighted and dishonored if he is not complimented with a seat or a prologue of recognition in the Constitution."
    Well the pseudonymous opponent just imagined it didn't he? The US Government is not Christian, the majority of Americans are.

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    Senior Member I can't think of a name's Avatar
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    The US system is largely based on a Judeo-Christian ethic from English Common law. The way this nation was build draws more heavily on that than anything else.

    It seems like people of s certain political persuasion bring up the ol John Adams quote in North Africa every 3 years.

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    I pull quotes like that out when the confused or the fervently religious misspeak and claim the forefathers were Christian or that the US was founded as a Christian nation. Like those here have already said, the nation itself isn't Christian, but most of its citizens are.

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    If the American founders had intended to create a Christian nation, they would have made it explicit. Especially considering that in their day it probably wouldn't even have been a controversial matter given that religious sentiment ran far deeper than it does today.

    But yes, the US is absolutely a majority-Christian nation, so if people want to (privately) manifest their faith that's A-OK.

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    Grease Monkey shocker1's Avatar
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    One thing they worried about the most was mixing church and state. I am a Baptist Christian and we believe in freedom to interpret God as the spirit leads you and oppose State religion. That said it was a creator who endowed us with our basic rights according to the founders. No matter if you believe in a God or not this should give you comfort. This means man can not(should not) dictate your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This premise brings all of us together.

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    Im an independent Baptist. Im also a confirmed gun carrying conservative. While I believe this nation was founded on basic Judeo-Christian values, it is not, nor ever has been a "Christian" nation. If it was, we would have never allowed the cruel institution of slavery, or abortion for that matter. Im thankful to live in a nation were I can worship as I please, but if some of those on the politicized religious right ever came to power, you can kiss your religious freedoms, plus your freedom of speech, good-bye.

    Ever here of the Pilgrims, the Puritans, and the Massachusetts Bay Colony? They tried to set up God's kingdom on earth and they failed miserably. They also failed at being decent Christians. They mixed religious law and civil law. If you broke a religious law, you were punished by civil authorities. They hanged several Quaker women, and put others out of the colony in the dead of winter hoping they would die. So much for gentleness, meekness, goodness, and longsuffering.

    I agree with the article's conclusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I can't think of a name View Post
    The US system is largely based on a Judeo-Christian ethic from English Common law.
    Whats this Judeo-Christian crap?

    Last time I checked the US was originally full of quakers, baptists, puritans and Anglicans.

    Australia was originally full of Irish Catholics and Anglicans. Hardly any people of the Jewish faith.

    This Judeo-Christian stuff is only a modern term to make a minority group feel good IMO.

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    Grease Monkey shocker1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minardiau View Post
    Whats this Judeo-Christian crap?

    Last time I checked the US was originally full of quakers, baptists, puritans and Anglicans.

    Australia was originally full of Irish Catholics and Anglicans. Hardly any people of the Jewish faith.

    This Judeo-Christian stuff is only a modern term to make a minority group feel good IMO.
    Well Jesus is a Jew so Christians center life around the teachings of a Jew who was a Rabbi as well. So hence Judeo-Christian.

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    Crap. Most of ideals of western civilization was established long before this hippy even was born. The common law aspects and many of the English speaking worlds ideals also came from Northern Europe.

    Besides that Jews have been persecuted since well the dawn of time right up until the 19th century in most places.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minardiau View Post
    Crap. Most of ideals of western civilization was established long before this hippy even was born. .
    You not very nice or respectful of other peoples beliefs are you? The rest of that post was well I do not know. However, you will never see me claim morality showed up with Jesus. Hammurabi was writing Moral codes while Northern Europe was in the stone age.

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    Senior Member I can't think of a name's Avatar
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    Minardiau It is not like I made the Judeo-Christian label up. Look it up.

    Christianity is in part based on Jewish teachings, they are different but have a lot of similarities.

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    one nation, under GOD indivisible with liberty and justice for all

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