Reply With Quote. .
he has no tirgger dicipline
. .
Lebanese army needs some serious training and a commander with balls
Last edited by z973; 11-10-2008 at 06:30 PM.
I dont beleive that LAF need further extra training.
Commander with Balls, I think they have, even with big balls
However, They are disciplined ; is discipline a bad thing???
I Beleive what we need are politicians with balls, not military with balls; the biggest problem of the LAF ever, was and still is the weak political cover.
Today, the army has 75% of the Lebanese poeple's cover and is still missing the other 25 %.
Unfortunately these 25% are miles away.
In my opinion , these 75% won't wait too long , the train has to start moving, then the 25% will follow or not .... It will be their OWN problem... then it will be too late...it is unfortunate but life has to go on.
i mean no offence when i say thisOriginally Posted by Gringo_lb
but when i see Leb army i see nothing more than a rag tag force.
if you look at leb army's tactics its no more than spray n pray.
when i say they are not good i mean they are not good enough to defend thier borders against israel.
the regular army gets only 30 bullets to fire a year for training
so of course they are only like 3rd world countries
its only the special units that are well trained, so maybe now with all the amunition they got they will get more training
I understand the bitterness you feel, every single person of us has it.,
especially when we see our brave soldiers dying for stupid things or because of old / obsolete equipment.
However the worst feeling is when politics get involved in military issues.
As the army should not get involved in politics, politics should not be involved in military issues.
My friend , trust me, things won't stay like this forever, just beleive in God and your army, it is our sole salvation.
By the way: If it is the case, would you joint Army's ansar and be 100% under its command?
oh...it would be good if the army builds more training centers and train regular forces by the special forces. or companies like black water or former British crack commandos would lent you a hand. good training is better than any weapon.
you took the words right out of my mouth
such a waste of brave souls.
i seriously would. if i had better training and if i was send to a better training facility. but I'm not going to fight corrupted politicians private war and lay down my life for someone who doesn't deserve it
Last edited by z973; 11-10-2008 at 06:31 PM.
Regarding the discussion about training and such.
If it was for the Lebanese Army commanders and the soldiers, they would have trained as needed. But as many of you were saying, politics have hand in that failure. Where does it affect? Well look at the following
Basically, not to speak much, I agree with Gringo_lb, it is not the army that needs balls but it is somewhere else. However, we shouldn't only look at it from balls side but also from intentions side, either internal or external. Until good intentions toward the army are there, from people inside and especially from outside Lebanon, the army will continue on its current progress, which is slow struggle towards better army that at any point will constantly need foreign support.
- The government decides the budget of the army, it has always been under the requirement, basically just to fulfill the wages of the personnel and the basic stuff. The army always try to have other sources for income such as investing in hotels and resorts, or rely on foreign financial aids. But still, they is not a budget for an army.
- The small budget that we have mentioned above, constraints the training, and here where our friend Z937 information comes to place, 30 bullets per year per soldier for training. This means, no enough ammunition to cope with the requirements (Either for proper and enough training or real combats), and a big example of this is what happened in the early days of Naher el Bared operation, the army ran out of ammunition, we should not forget also that financing the purchases of ammunition later on for that battle was not from the Lebanese Government.
- There have always been an international constraints and block for equipping the army, lead by Israel and the USA (Just last week we witnessed what happened with the AT-4 proposed delivery.). So speaking about not being able to protect the borders isn't a result of the lack of will or "balls" as Sniper_27 said, but again to the same continuing issue of the political influence on anything related to the army. How is the army going to protect the border? Is protecting the land borders usually done by M-16s, RPG-7 and Mortars?, is protecting the air usually done by the old anti air guns?, is protecting the seas against armies done with small patrol boats with only .50 cal on them ? Or is it done by a complete network of effective anti-tank, anti-air and anti-sea systems backed with basic surveillance equipment that can be even used at night and in extreme weather conditions?. This is where a blockade is put on the army, the Lebanese Army should not have (according to them) any effective anti tank rockets, no basic air defense system etc.. they want it a police not an army, but the army and its commaders want to be the strong capable army that raises Lebanon's head high.
- There is no wonder that the special units are highly trained, and in better facilities, yes they have good facilities. However, we are talking about a relatively small portion of the army which does not even include the Intervention Force, again this is a result of the lack of resources and money owing to the same political reasons. If we look at any soldier in the infantry units let us say, you see that first of all they are usually not dressed groomly and they are not really equipped, second they don't appear to have enough training for either being a soldier, carry the gun properly and even fire properly, in addition, they lack the techniques and the tactics, they fight by just firing, this is all. This also applies to most of the ISF units. I will not go far, you can look at the photos in this thread and you are able to identify who is training and who isn't and just check to what unit they belong, you will come with the same conclusion. Speaking about tactics and techniques, just look how the insufficiently trained ISF and Army units handle people hiding in an apartment of a building, they sow the building with bullets from down the street, and not until one for the special units comes that those coming units break into the apartment and end the matter.
Speaking about training, here is a little report about a joint training between the Lebanese Navy Commandos and the French Navy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HNoI-3STkw
And I also embed a previous link for a video for the navy commando training posted earlier by my friend Z937
Last edited by zaher; 06-25-2008 at 08:59 AM.
EDITORIAL: America should help Lebanon
Hezbollah victory empowers Iran
Gary Anderson
Monday, May 26, 2008
In the past month, the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) was routed by the Hezbollah militia. In 2006, the Israelis also got skunked by Hezbollah. Let's give credit where credit is due: Hezbollah is a master of hybrid warfare. It can combine state of the art weaponry and asymmetric tactics to defeat a conventional force — especially when that force is unprepared as was the case with both the Lebanese National Army and the Israeli Defense Force in 2006. Israel will not make the same mistake twice. The Lebanese military may need some help.
The military arm of Hezbollah is a very good fighting force, but it is not invincible. In fighting the Israelis to a standstill in 2006, the Shi'ite militia used the tactics that the Japanese used on Okinawa in 1945 combined with sophisticated Iranian-supplied Kornet missiles, Ababail unmanned aircraft, and anti-ship missiles to embarrass their Israeli foes. Every Hezbollah squad had more night vision devices and snipe scopes than did an entire platoon of their Israeli counterparts.
The Japanese failed on Okinawa because the Americans, still smarting from humiliations at Pearl Harbor and the Philippines, were willing to pay any price. Neither the Israelis nor the Lebanese Armed Forces can afford that luxury. Yet the Israelis can nonetheless take care of themselves; we need to ask what we can do to help the Lebanese military.
We could help greatly by assigning special forces operators to advise each Lebanese battalion. We should spend the money to put each Lebanese battalion through the rotations at the U.S. Army's National Training Center or the Marine Corps Combined Arms Center — both are located in the California high desert. We should have done this with the Iraqis, but we failed to do so. We are just now recovering from that mistake. The Lebanese army is a legitimate — if under-trained and under-supplied — army. It is a viable, but flawed, institution. Our Special Forces guys transformed the armed forces of El Salvador and that is a model to emulate. We did this without a single American death. Let us allow the professionals to do the job.
From an equipment stand point, we could provide the Lebanese military with the Israeli TROPHY Active Protection system. This system is capable of defeating both Kornet anti-vehicle weapons and small killer unmanned aerial vehicles, such as the Iranian Ababail. Ironically, the Israelis had not provided their own forces with this system in 2006.
We could also supply the Lebanese military with unmanned ground robots that can deal with improvised explosive devices (IEDs) and clear tunnels which Hezbollah use liberally. We might also want to give any Lebanese navy craft operating against Hezbollah in littoral waters some top cover against Iranian anti-ship missiles. The experience might be useful in a potential conflict with Iran.
No nation can be truly sovereign if it cannot control or eliminate armed factions within its borders. Lebanon is no exception. Hezbollah must be brought to heel.
I have a bias here. I was an unarmed U.N. observer from 1986-87; Hezbollah was actively trying to kill or capture me. If it were not for good Shi'ite locals who tipped me off, I would be dead today. My successor, Rich Higgins, was not so lucky: He was captured, kidnapped and killed by a Hezbollah sub-faction. I survived by becoming a de facto unarmed guerrilla myself. I slipped into and out of villages unannounced. I knew which muktar liked Bailey's Bristol Cream and always brought a bottle to the "room where Allah cannot see." They invariably let me know when it was a bad day to visit a village.
Hezbollah is probably not totally evil — but it is ruthless and well disciplined. If someone does not control them, the Iranian-backed militia will control the country. Hezbollah is a political power in Lebanon, and it needs to be brought under control and reduced to a legitimate political party. If we cannot help the Lebanese government do this, we will have handed the Iranians a victory on a platter.
Lebanon is a key to peace in the Middle East. Israel cannot abide by a threat from Hezbollah on its northern border. The Israelis cannot control Hezbollah. They proved that from 1982 to 2000. Only the Lebanese government can do that. If we do not give them the tools to do so, shame on us.
Gary Anderson, a retired Marine Corps officer, lectures at the George Washington University's Elliot School.
That article up there is showing the situation as if the Lebanese Army is the ally of Israel and is currently engaging in battles against Hizbullah. Moreover, it disregards that there are different other strong threats to Lebanon and they also should be handled someway and another.
Oh man.. What a BS of an article that is..
Thank you very much for your answer Zaher.The insignia is either the one of the Anti-riot battalion or Rapid Intervention Battalion, they are so smiliar. But if we remember under what those VAB came, then it is most probably Anti-riot Battalion.
1. Anti Riot Battalion
2. Special Force Company (Foohoud or Leopards)
3. Rapid Intervention Battalion
This is a good website with all the ISF patches :
http://www.isf.gov.lb/English/LeftMe...ges/Badges.htm
I have the Anti-Riot Battalion and the Mobile Forces patches in my (small) collection.
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